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	<title>Comments on: Choppers, the Achilles&#8217; heel in the Afghan war</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/2009/10/29/choppers-the-achilles-heel-in-the-afghan-war/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/2009/10/29/choppers-the-achilles-heel-in-the-afghan-war/</link>
	<description>Lifting the veil on conflict, culture and politics</description>
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		<title>By: RM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/2009/10/29/choppers-the-achilles-heel-in-the-afghan-war/comment-page-1/#comment-251</link>
		<dc:creator>RM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Nov 2009 17:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/?p=282#comment-251</guid>
		<description>While agreeing in part with Roy&#039;s view that a temporary &quot;unstable equilibrium&quot; occurred parallel and somewhat unconnected to the surge in Iraq (albeit the threat of the surge arguably caused carrot and stick results), the fact that a modicum of stability lingers subsequently is noteworthy: Iraq is beginning to create institutional cultural memory operating as a marginal democracy. As such, its a lessons learned that is clearly being taken with modifications to the Af-Pak mission where McChrystal is attempting to create what he knows also will be a &quot;unstable equilibrium&quot; with the concomitant requirement of a surge to allow such a thing to be pursued. Consequently, and while the Pashtuns and Taliban will likely never be assimilated into a democratic paradigm, protecting communities from the warlords and insurgents, in the end, may be the best strategy. If that doesn&#039;t work, the only solution I can fathom is to pull out of areas, let the rats slink back in, then bomb the hell out of them. Come in- we kill you- we leave- we wait. Come back if you like- it&#039;ll be the same. Got it? Now how many goats do you want to tell us when they&#039;re back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While agreeing in part with Roy&#8217;s view that a temporary &#8220;unstable equilibrium&#8221; occurred parallel and somewhat unconnected to the surge in Iraq (albeit the threat of the surge arguably caused carrot and stick results), the fact that a modicum of stability lingers subsequently is noteworthy: Iraq is beginning to create institutional cultural memory operating as a marginal democracy. As such, its a lessons learned that is clearly being taken with modifications to the Af-Pak mission where McChrystal is attempting to create what he knows also will be a &#8220;unstable equilibrium&#8221; with the concomitant requirement of a surge to allow such a thing to be pursued. Consequently, and while the Pashtuns and Taliban will likely never be assimilated into a democratic paradigm, protecting communities from the warlords and insurgents, in the end, may be the best strategy. If that doesn&#8217;t work, the only solution I can fathom is to pull out of areas, let the rats slink back in, then bomb the hell out of them. Come in- we kill you- we leave- we wait. Come back if you like- it&#8217;ll be the same. Got it? Now how many goats do you want to tell us when they&#8217;re back.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/2009/10/29/choppers-the-achilles-heel-in-the-afghan-war/comment-page-1/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Nov 2009 15:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/?p=282#comment-227</guid>
		<description>This will be my first and only post on this subject. The Achilles heel of this war is the lack of information the public is being given in regards to the positive effect coalition forces are having there. It is slow going, yes, but Afghanistan has been under attack by one force or another for decades. It is my true belief that if people feel secure, if they have food and shelter and think there is even a chance that their children may grow to have a better life than they have, they will choose peace. We are not there to secure our oil interests. We are not there to install a regime sympathetic to our interests. We are there to provide security to millions of oppressed women and children so that they can have real choices. I want girls to be able to walk to school without acid being thrown in their faces. I want boys to learn about world history and philosophy and a science that goes beyond how to build bombs. Security breeds stability breeds development. If the basic question of survival can be removed from the picture and the Afghans feel safe enough to move forward, THEY WILL. It is our moral responsibility to provide the security for them to choose their own destiny. That is why I&#039;ve signed up to serve. That is why I will lay my life on the line. Please, to all of you whining about the tragic loss of life, or comparing the current mission to the Soviet Union&#039;s invasion, get over yourself, read some history books, and try to understand that standing up to protect the rights of an entire gender is just as honourable, and important, as it was to stand up for an entire race during the Second World War. This is a defining moment in our history, and I for one will not shirk my responsibility to do my part so that 15 or 20 years down the line we can face the problem all over again. Do it once, do it right, do it for the right reasons. That&#039;s the end of my rant. God bless our soldiers and the leaders making decisions in a political climate determined by uninformed, cowardly masses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This will be my first and only post on this subject. The Achilles heel of this war is the lack of information the public is being given in regards to the positive effect coalition forces are having there. It is slow going, yes, but Afghanistan has been under attack by one force or another for decades. It is my true belief that if people feel secure, if they have food and shelter and think there is even a chance that their children may grow to have a better life than they have, they will choose peace. We are not there to secure our oil interests. We are not there to install a regime sympathetic to our interests. We are there to provide security to millions of oppressed women and children so that they can have real choices. I want girls to be able to walk to school without acid being thrown in their faces. I want boys to learn about world history and philosophy and a science that goes beyond how to build bombs. Security breeds stability breeds development. If the basic question of survival can be removed from the picture and the Afghans feel safe enough to move forward, THEY WILL. It is our moral responsibility to provide the security for them to choose their own destiny. That is why I&#8217;ve signed up to serve. That is why I will lay my life on the line. Please, to all of you whining about the tragic loss of life, or comparing the current mission to the Soviet Union&#8217;s invasion, get over yourself, read some history books, and try to understand that standing up to protect the rights of an entire gender is just as honourable, and important, as it was to stand up for an entire race during the Second World War. This is a defining moment in our history, and I for one will not shirk my responsibility to do my part so that 15 or 20 years down the line we can face the problem all over again. Do it once, do it right, do it for the right reasons. That&#8217;s the end of my rant. God bless our soldiers and the leaders making decisions in a political climate determined by uninformed, cowardly masses.</p>
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		<title>By: jedri</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/2009/10/29/choppers-the-achilles-heel-in-the-afghan-war/comment-page-1/#comment-196</link>
		<dc:creator>jedri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/?p=282#comment-196</guid>
		<description>You have all the best toys in the orld but no idea how to use them. I am no old toothless war veteran and my military experience is limited to a 2year stint in the armoured core of a country not currently at war (officially). So I have never fired a riffle with the intent to kill. I do however know people and the Afghani people the civilians don’t get it. He just wants to raise his goats grow his beard and sit in the dust. Now her you come and tell him he must fight. They don’t react well to ambition it is completely foreign to them, for now he is experiencing utopia and doesn’t see the need to fight. They need to be reminded of what will happen when the Taliban returns. Yes win the hearts and minds of the people and you will isolate the enemy but the US and British has never in any war managed to do so, what makes Afghanistan any different. You are asking the wrong people how to win this war. Money wont solve this problem effective populace management just might. Lt the army handle security let the “man” handle the people...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You have all the best toys in the orld but no idea how to use them. I am no old toothless war veteran and my military experience is limited to a 2year stint in the armoured core of a country not currently at war (officially). So I have never fired a riffle with the intent to kill. I do however know people and the Afghani people the civilians don’t get it. He just wants to raise his goats grow his beard and sit in the dust. Now her you come and tell him he must fight. They don’t react well to ambition it is completely foreign to them, for now he is experiencing utopia and doesn’t see the need to fight. They need to be reminded of what will happen when the Taliban returns. Yes win the hearts and minds of the people and you will isolate the enemy but the US and British has never in any war managed to do so, what makes Afghanistan any different. You are asking the wrong people how to win this war. Money wont solve this problem effective populace management just might. Lt the army handle security let the “man” handle the people&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: brian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/2009/10/29/choppers-the-achilles-heel-in-the-afghan-war/comment-page-1/#comment-181</link>
		<dc:creator>brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 06:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/?p=282#comment-181</guid>
		<description>Richard is that to imply there&#039;s bias involved, (if so where?) or just that there&#039;s a consensus on the issue.

Do you think news articles should be constructed to support certain nations despite their actions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard is that to imply there&#8217;s bias involved, (if so where?) or just that there&#8217;s a consensus on the issue.</p>
<p>Do you think news articles should be constructed to support certain nations despite their actions?</p>
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		<title>By: Roy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/2009/10/29/choppers-the-achilles-heel-in-the-afghan-war/comment-page-1/#comment-178</link>
		<dc:creator>Roy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:08:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/?p=282#comment-178</guid>
		<description>Personally I&#039;m unable to imagine a viable solution to the Af-Pak problem. The outcome could be more or less bad irrespective of whether The West pulls out of direct military engagement there. But it&#039;s worth pointing out that a major premise of the current strategic debate, which seems to be universally accepted, is catastrophically flawed.

Very briefly, this premise is usually formulated along the following lines:
&quot;We will be able to withdraw once the Afghan state has sufficient trained security forces (army, police etc) to control the insurgency themselves.&quot;

The proposition is repeated endlessly by politicians, the military and media, without demur. Only the timescale is open to debate.

It appears to escape notice that western military intervention, equipped as it is with the current state of the art in military resources (air supremacy; manned vehicles plus remotely controlled surveillance and ground attack drones, satellites - not to mention myriad other types of technological surveillance equipment, artillery, armour, the finest personal equipment and medical facilities ever made available to the soldier on the ground, etc) is quite unable to restrain the insurgency, which gets worse yearly. Of course against this technical capability there is the issue of manpower; no field commander ever thinks he has enough, as we&#039;re hearing right now. But this is a distraction, as it was in Vietnam. &quot;The Surge&quot; in Iraq only appeared to be effective (in the short term at least) because it coincided with other policies implemented at the same time which coincided, temporarily, with the interests of some of the insurgents.

However the notion that the Afghan army, other things being equal, could ever be raised to this level of technical capability within a realistic timeframe, is manifestly absurd even if the budget were to become available - which it won&#039;t. 

This is the least of the problems. The insurgency is essentially Pashtun driven. The foreign jihadist contribution is insignificant, although it does have significant regional implications. An Afghan army (including police, security forces etc) which doesn&#039;t include at least a proportionate representation of Pashtuns, namely about 40%, is going to be perceived in the Pashtun areas as a tribal army of occupation. The Afghan army is already disproportionately weighted with Tajiks, recapitulating the conflict between the Taliban and the Panjshiri Tajiks which simmered on during the years of Taliban rule. As an aside, if only we had listened to Ahmed Shah Massoud&#039;s repeated warnings we might not now be in this situation; certainly 9/11 would have been prevented.

Even if it was actually possible to form an Afghan army which is demographically representative of the country, how many of the Pashtun soldiers could be relied on? Certain recent events and the timeless phrase &quot;fifth column&quot; spring to mind...

The factors roughly outlined above would seem to me to be self-evident. Although the terrain and the politics are very different, I am constantly reminded of the progress of the war in Vietnam. This is a more relevant touchstone for comparison than the superficially similar example of Iraq. In any case there is a situation of unstable equilibrium in Iraq which will not last, for reasons that are too complex to discuss here. Likewise the relationship between Pakistan&#039;s internal chaos and the Afghan war.

I could add a lot more but these blogs are ultimately quite pointless. So I&#039;ll just add one thing that is being completely overlooked about the reasons for incursion into Afghanistan, or at least for its continuation. At some point there&#039;s going to be a requirement for a base from which to launch the campaign to disarm Pakistan. Afghanistan is handily situated. 

BTW I have spent time in Afghanistan.

Roy</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally I&#8217;m unable to imagine a viable solution to the Af-Pak problem. The outcome could be more or less bad irrespective of whether The West pulls out of direct military engagement there. But it&#8217;s worth pointing out that a major premise of the current strategic debate, which seems to be universally accepted, is catastrophically flawed.</p>
<p>Very briefly, this premise is usually formulated along the following lines:<br />
&#8220;We will be able to withdraw once the Afghan state has sufficient trained security forces (army, police etc) to control the insurgency themselves.&#8221;</p>
<p>The proposition is repeated endlessly by politicians, the military and media, without demur. Only the timescale is open to debate.</p>
<p>It appears to escape notice that western military intervention, equipped as it is with the current state of the art in military resources (air supremacy; manned vehicles plus remotely controlled surveillance and ground attack drones, satellites &#8211; not to mention myriad other types of technological surveillance equipment, artillery, armour, the finest personal equipment and medical facilities ever made available to the soldier on the ground, etc) is quite unable to restrain the insurgency, which gets worse yearly. Of course against this technical capability there is the issue of manpower; no field commander ever thinks he has enough, as we&#8217;re hearing right now. But this is a distraction, as it was in Vietnam. &#8220;The Surge&#8221; in Iraq only appeared to be effective (in the short term at least) because it coincided with other policies implemented at the same time which coincided, temporarily, with the interests of some of the insurgents.</p>
<p>However the notion that the Afghan army, other things being equal, could ever be raised to this level of technical capability within a realistic timeframe, is manifestly absurd even if the budget were to become available &#8211; which it won&#8217;t. </p>
<p>This is the least of the problems. The insurgency is essentially Pashtun driven. The foreign jihadist contribution is insignificant, although it does have significant regional implications. An Afghan army (including police, security forces etc) which doesn&#8217;t include at least a proportionate representation of Pashtuns, namely about 40%, is going to be perceived in the Pashtun areas as a tribal army of occupation. The Afghan army is already disproportionately weighted with Tajiks, recapitulating the conflict between the Taliban and the Panjshiri Tajiks which simmered on during the years of Taliban rule. As an aside, if only we had listened to Ahmed Shah Massoud&#8217;s repeated warnings we might not now be in this situation; certainly 9/11 would have been prevented.</p>
<p>Even if it was actually possible to form an Afghan army which is demographically representative of the country, how many of the Pashtun soldiers could be relied on? Certain recent events and the timeless phrase &#8220;fifth column&#8221; spring to mind&#8230;</p>
<p>The factors roughly outlined above would seem to me to be self-evident. Although the terrain and the politics are very different, I am constantly reminded of the progress of the war in Vietnam. This is a more relevant touchstone for comparison than the superficially similar example of Iraq. In any case there is a situation of unstable equilibrium in Iraq which will not last, for reasons that are too complex to discuss here. Likewise the relationship between Pakistan&#8217;s internal chaos and the Afghan war.</p>
<p>I could add a lot more but these blogs are ultimately quite pointless. So I&#8217;ll just add one thing that is being completely overlooked about the reasons for incursion into Afghanistan, or at least for its continuation. At some point there&#8217;s going to be a requirement for a base from which to launch the campaign to disarm Pakistan. Afghanistan is handily situated. </p>
<p>BTW I have spent time in Afghanistan.</p>
<p>Roy</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/2009/10/29/choppers-the-achilles-heel-in-the-afghan-war/comment-page-1/#comment-177</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 09:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/?p=282#comment-177</guid>
		<description>After reading over 200 Reuters article on American war involvement in several wars, I&#039;ve yet to read one that wouldn&#039;t serve to encourage whoever America&#039;s adversary was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading over 200 Reuters article on American war involvement in several wars, I&#8217;ve yet to read one that wouldn&#8217;t serve to encourage whoever America&#8217;s adversary was.</p>
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		<title>By: brian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/2009/10/29/choppers-the-achilles-heel-in-the-afghan-war/comment-page-1/#comment-156</link>
		<dc:creator>brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:11:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/?p=282#comment-156</guid>
		<description>Brezinksi:

&quot;For America, the chief geopolitical prize is Eurasia... Now a non-Eurasian power is preeminent in Eurasia - and America&#039;s global primacy is directly dependent on how long and how effectively its preponderance on the Eurasian continent is sustained.” (p.30)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brezinksi:</p>
<p>&#8220;For America, the chief geopolitical prize is Eurasia&#8230; Now a non-Eurasian power is preeminent in Eurasia &#8211; and America&#8217;s global primacy is directly dependent on how long and how effectively its preponderance on the Eurasian continent is sustained.” (p.30)</p>
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		<title>By: brian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/2009/10/29/choppers-the-achilles-heel-in-the-afghan-war/comment-page-1/#comment-155</link>
		<dc:creator>brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 13:08:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/?p=282#comment-155</guid>
		<description>Some quotes from Obama&#039;s top political strategist Brezinski from his book &#039;The Grand Chessboard&#039;:

&quot;How America &#039;manages&#039; Eurasia is critical. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world&#039;s three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa&#039;s subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world&#039;s central continent. About 75 per cent of the world&#039;s people live in Eurasia, and most of the world&#039;s physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for about three-fourths of the world&#039;s known energy resources.&quot; (p.31)

“The momentum of Asia&#039;s economic development is already generating massive pressures for the exploration and exploitation of new sources of energy and the Central Asian region and the Caspian Sea basin are known to contain reserves of natural gas and oil that dwarf those of Kuwait, the Gulf of Mexico, or the North Sea.&quot; (p.125)

Plans for the pipeline:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Afghanistan_Pipeline</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some quotes from Obama&#8217;s top political strategist Brezinski from his book &#8216;The Grand Chessboard&#8217;:</p>
<p>&#8220;How America &#8216;manages&#8217; Eurasia is critical. A power that dominates Eurasia would control two of the world&#8217;s three most advanced and economically productive regions. A mere glance at the map also suggests that control over Eurasia would almost automatically entail Africa&#8217;s subordination, rendering the Western Hemisphere and Oceania geopolitically peripheral to the world&#8217;s central continent. About 75 per cent of the world&#8217;s people live in Eurasia, and most of the world&#8217;s physical wealth is there as well, both in its enterprises and underneath its soil. Eurasia accounts for about three-fourths of the world&#8217;s known energy resources.&#8221; (p.31)</p>
<p>“The momentum of Asia&#8217;s economic development is already generating massive pressures for the exploration and exploitation of new sources of energy and the Central Asian region and the Caspian Sea basin are known to contain reserves of natural gas and oil that dwarf those of Kuwait, the Gulf of Mexico, or the North Sea.&#8221; (p.125)</p>
<p>Plans for the pipeline:<br />
<a href='http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Afghanistan_Pipeline'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Afgha nistan_Pipeline</a></p>
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		<title>By: hotaruSTAR16</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/2009/10/29/choppers-the-achilles-heel-in-the-afghan-war/comment-page-1/#comment-154</link>
		<dc:creator>hotaruSTAR16</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 07:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/?p=282#comment-154</guid>
		<description>This is yet another obstacle for the U.S. staying in the Afghanistan war. They will need to make the helicopters safer. Asia Chronicle has been blogging on many issues facing Afghanistan. Worth a read I think. www.asiachroniclenews.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is yet another obstacle for the U.S. staying in the Afghanistan war. They will need to make the helicopters safer. Asia Chronicle has been blogging on many issues facing Afghanistan. Worth a read I think. <a href='http://www.asiachroniclenews.com'>http://www.asiachroniclenews.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dale Dobbins</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/2009/10/29/choppers-the-achilles-heel-in-the-afghan-war/comment-page-1/#comment-153</link>
		<dc:creator>Dale Dobbins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 17:33:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/afghanistan/?p=282#comment-153</guid>
		<description>Afghanistan is proving very difficult for the USA.  If we bail out before the Afghan government is in place to defend itself the Taliban will come back and take over. Once this happens they will continue to train people to kill Americans and most other Christians any where in the world.  Based on history it is likely to take 12 to 15 years to defeat the Taliban and get the Afghan people to began developing a society than can join other nations of the world in a peaceful and prosperous manner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Afghanistan is proving very difficult for the USA.  If we bail out before the Afghan government is in place to defend itself the Taliban will come back and take over. Once this happens they will continue to train people to kill Americans and most other Christians any where in the world.  Based on history it is likely to take 12 to 15 years to defeat the Taliban and get the Afghan people to began developing a society than can join other nations of the world in a peaceful and prosperous manner.</p>
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