Afghan Journal

Lifting the veil on conflict, culture and politics

America takes the war deeper into Pakistan

October 4, 2010

PAKISTAN-NATO/ATTACK

One of the most interesting things in Bob Woodward’s re-telling of the Afghan war strategy in his book “Obama’s Wars” is the approach toward Pakistan. It seems the Obama administration figured out pretty early on in its review that Pakistan was going to be the central batttleground, for this is where the main threat to America came from.

Indeed, the mission in Afghanistan was doomed so long as al Qaeda and the Taliban were sheltered in the mountains of northwest Pakistan straddling the Afghan border. The question was how do you deal with Pakistan?

Like much else, the administration debated long and hard just how far to push Pakistan to cracking down on the militants, some of whom it had spawned as assets in Aghanistan and as a front against its much bigger traditional enemy, India. One of those arguing for a tougher posture inside the administration was Dennis Blair, then the director of National Intelligence who thought there were just too many carrots being handed out and not enough sticks. He suggested the United States bomb targets inside Pakistan without seeking Islamabad’s approval. “I think Pakistan would be completely, completely pissed off and they would probably take actions against us … but they would probably adjust,” he once told Obama.

Josh Rogin, recounting the debate from a piece in Foreign Policy, said that Obama chose a less confrontational path toward Pakistan. A year later, patience is running out. Last week’s repeated incursions by NATO helicopters  from Afghanistan into Pakistan while pursuing militants seemed to signal a new, muscular strategy of the type Blair advocated.

Three Pakistani soldiers were killed in an attack by a NATO helicopter, triggering outrage and prompting authorities to close down a supply route for NATO troops in Afghanistan. Trucks carrying fuel for the foreign troops were set on fire in southern Pakistan in apparent retaliation for the soldiers’ deaths, and on Monday, three guards were killed in an attack on tankers bound for Afghanistan in the nation’s capital.

By choking off NATO supplies, even temporarily, the Pakistanis are saying they have had enough, says Robert Haddick, editor of The Small Wars Journal. While NATO said the helicopter strikes were carried out in self-defense after cross-border firing and in line with the rules of engagement, Pakistan saw it as a flagrant violation of its sovereignty, which is already under sustained pressure from the United States.

For Pakistani officials, it became one slice of the salami too much. These officials have accustomed themselves to the CIA’s drone campaign inside Pakistan, a campaign that accelerated sharply in September. If U.S. policymakers thought they could get Pakistani officials to get accustomed to ever more aggressive air raids into the sanctuaries, Pakistan’s closure of the border is designed to bring those thoughts to an end.

Where do the two nations go from here? As Haddick noted, the drone campaign has already turned intense, with over 20 strikes in September, almost double the previous highest in January when the CIA vowed revenge for the attack on a post in Khost in eastern Afghanistan. Pakistan seems to have resigned itself to thes attacks by unmanned U.S. planes; there was hardly a protest at the sustained bombardment last month which was quite  a contrast from the time when people took to the streets each time a Hellfire missile was fired.

The worry, then, in Pakistan must be the more frequent these incursions become, the weaker the resistance over time. It’s a slippery slope. First the unmanned drones became part of the Pakistani landscape, hovering over its skies for hours and raining missiles. Then, manned incursions by helicopters, some of them as deep as 5 km inside Pakistani territory according to reports in the local newspapers. Tomorrow it could be small bands of troops or special forces crossing the border in “hot pursuit,” something no self-respecting army, least of all Pakistan’s professional army  can accept.

For, all this may eventually also play into what happens on Pakistan’s eastern flank where it confronts India’s huge military. If the U.S. and NATO can cross the border in hot pursuit and in line with the rules of engagement, what stops India from doing it next time there is a militant attack on its soil. Isn’t it going to be harder to hold them back if they want to go across the ceasefire line in Kashmir?

Comments

Pakistan has not exactly been the honest broker here. It uses terrorists for political ends in the region whilst demanding Western aid, with a sense of entitlement that is frankly embarrassing. They will be held to account.

Posted by James | Report as abusive
 

salam.accordig to my views america destroying very soon.like russian.i am agree with your arguments

 

The thing that stops India from chasing “militants” into Pakistan is that India is not a Pakistani ally and an intrusion will be considered an act of war. For which I am sure Pakistan wil give a befitting response. Besides, the unrest in Kashmir is not cause by “militants” any more, it is caused by opressed civilians. That’s the reason why majority of the killed were unarmed teenagers and young adults. India should not try and compare itself to welfare states when it is no more than a third world country. It isn’t Bollywood, it’s real life.

Posted by Vi | Report as abusive
 

As an American I feel Pakistan is behaving like mysterious lady of the evening who will not perform her job unless her master or the customer will pay more money even after a price was already agreed upon.

This political trick will only work so many times. In a a war soldiers will die, just like the US and Nato soldiers die all the time. Pakistan can not stop performing her job and ask for more money and tchnology every other month because this shows a sign of being a weak and questionable ally with clearly other anti-Nato motives. She was paid, now she must perform.

Posted by Agmet Hamitenzcik | Report as abusive
 

The current chinese Premier said recently on CNN, about his interest in history books. I would suggest that the readers on this blog read the history books to appreciate the situation in the Pashtoon land. Let us forget for a moment the so called afghanistan and Pakistan who happened to be associted with these people. The land is controlled by the powerful pashtoon tribes and there are so many of them fully independent of one another. The events we are witnessing reflect the history of previous foreign forces who got sucked into the land and lost their empires. The USA and the defeated armies of NATI in World war 2 are the weakest who ever confronted these people. They pay them money for using the roads in their land and suffer casualties from IED’s whenever they try to use the roads during unauthorised period and even support them in the drug trade. Pakistan military or the civilian Pakistan Govt. has very little to contribut other than to allow only the licensed Pashtoon truck owners to carry the weaponry and food for the soldiers. Today the USA and NATO products destined for soldiers are sold in the open m arkets of Peshawar, similar to the sale of Russian articles being sold on Berlin pavements when the Russians were there. Pakistan military is no longer preventing the assault on these unguarded supplies even in the main Pakistan. It would seem that the battle is being conducted by the so called taliban commandos, the all out assault on the enemy has not yet been approved by the chiefs. The rag tag army of the invaders is too weak to warrant such an attack.
@Agmet,The lady is innocent and playing no significant part in the show. The war theatre is on the Afghan side where neither the Americans nor the NATO armioes show their flags, other than a quick fly over with their drones and the helicopters. Even the sophisticated Tornados of the German army have been withdrawn and the Nato armies are in the process of departing. The publishing of Bob Woodward book has always been a sign that the show is coming to an end, the article is making too much fuss about the few deaths on the part of the para military idiots and the burning of few petrol tanhers.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

I believe that instead of military solution there has to be a very shrewd diplomatic solution to afghanistan. There are many pashtoon tribes in region and when Northern Alliance entered Kabul we saw pictures of people rejoicing and dancing. My point is USA and NATO should keep spending continuously on keeping the rivalry up between pashtun tribes. Push Afghanistan into a perpetual civil war that keeps these pashtuns busy fighting among themselves. This would save a million lives outside Afghanistan but of course the cost in dollars would be substantial. It will be like a cold war scenario where it is Afghanistan vs Rest of the world and no govt (not even Iran) in world would oppose US/NATO continuous financial and strategic support of Northern Alliance (Yes there is already such support but it is bent too much on military effort) while keeping the pressure continuously on Pakistan. Problem with West is that they are used to FINISH the problems and are not very used to solutions that just go on and on. So if West thinks of so called wiping out terrorists then for all practical purposes that is impossible. But making terrorists kill each other is quite possible.

Posted by 007XXX | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan has proven enough that it is a rogue, terrorist country which is the biggest threat to the world & it’s “professional” army is the biggest terrorist outfit in the world. They will simply NOT eliminate terrorism from their soil & nor allow others to do it. In such a situation, the only option left is to attack Pakistan & annihilate every terrorist hiding in it’s caves & destroy it’s nukes. After finishing off the threat, Pakistan should be devided in 7 or 8 smaller nations. This is the only way, the world can save itself from terrorism.

Posted by Derick Wall | Report as abusive
 

@DWall
Not bad solution. Now try and replace the name Pakistan with that of the USA and your stzatement would look more realistic.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

@Derick
“Pakistan has proven enough that it is a rogue, terrorist country which is the biggest threat to the world & it’s “professional” army is the biggest terrorist outfit in the world. ”

When India kept on shouting this then West did not listen and in fact continued to support Pakistan AGAINST India. As we have a saying in India, “those who create pits for others are the ones themselves to fall in those pits”. This monster of terrorism was created by US only and now US is paying the heaviest price along with everyone else.

“the only option left is to attack Pakistan & annihilate every terrorist hiding in it’s caves & destroy it’s nukes”

Do u even realise what u r saying. US will have to suck every single of its citizen’s blood to get the amount of money for such an adventure. And even then its success rate will be very low. And r u proposing that while destroying nukes a few thousand citizens on Indo-Pak border may die and cripple the generations to come. Better option will be to buy nuke fuel (Uranium, plutonium, etc) as Pakistani administration officials can sell even their mothers given the right price.

Posted by 007XXX | Report as abusive
 

It is a little too late. The US should have decimated Pakistan in 2001 itself. It had the world support at that time.

It is better to work towards removing the nukes from this dangerous country, by coercion and sanctions.

 

Guys,

I don’t have a very high opinion of Pakistan either. The tick here is starting to get a little on the scary side. Many people here seem to be advocating a violent stance towards Pakistan. Will creating more war fix Pakistan? I don’t think so. Removing their nxkes will not work either.

Any attack on pakistan and these guys will very easily morph into a super terrorist state, much worse than Iran or even the slithery hezbollah. The already do have the world hostage. Pakistan has had the world hostage since 911. We need to find a way to stabilize pakistan and bring a common understanding to India, Pakistan, United States and Afghanistan, as well as the many smaller surrounding nations. Commonalities will be what brings together these countries.

Barack Obama and his Defense delegation need to talk directly to Islamabad, directly to Kayani and the civilian leaders like Gilani and Zardari may tag along for some burfi and chai as well, since that is all that they are good for.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

Sanjeev, you said:

“For, all this may eventually also play into what happens on Pakistan’s eastern flank where it confronts India’s huge military. If the U.S. and NATO can cross the border in hot pursuit and in line with the rules of engagement, what stops India from doing it next time there is a militant attack on its soil. Isn’t it going to be harder to hold them back if they want to go across the ceasefire line in Kashmir?”

–>With non monitary compensation agreements in place, India will hold back, Pakistan hates India worse than it hates the devil and Pakistan is willing to risk a large-scale national conflict if India chooses to hot pursue militants into Pakistan.

Any Indian incursion into Pakistan, and Pakistan may escalate the conflict into a nuclear confrontation, without any regard for Indian’s need to pursue terrorists and militants.

Due to past wars, Pakistani EGO is so battered and smashed, it is more important for Pakistan to maintain the staunch perception of its sovereignty in the face of India, rather than pursue militants for the common good of the two countries.

If the U.S. potentially sees the Pakistani Kashmiri militants as a threat to the west, now that opens up an entirely different scenario, especially in light of the drones.

I wonder how Pakistan would perceive it, if the U.S. were to launch drone strikes from India, using Indian territory to launch such attacks. Technically, speaking, it is the USA doing the attack, not India.

If the Pakistani Army can support militants to do unrest in Kashmir, why can India not do the same and let U.S. drones take out Pakistan occcupied Kashmir terrorist training camps? Why any double standard?

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

We actually need to carry out the threat, we made to Pakistan in 2001: BOMB IT BACK TO THE STONE AGE!!!

Posted by Gaandu Pakistan | Report as abusive
 

pakistan is an untrustworthy & unreliable “ally”, plain & simple. they take our money & support the people who want to kill us. i agree with dennis blair. enough with the carrots for pakistan, let’s show this hostile “ally” some sticks.

Posted by Sexy Infidel | Report as abusive
 

Reading some of our American friends’ comments I feel like laughing. Equally laughable is Dennis Blair’s less carrot and more stick approach. Does any of these realise that people living in stone age were far more barbaric and uncivilized than today’s humans. You bomb Pakistan to stone age and turn the left over population extremely hostile and dangerous. Even if u destroy Pak nukes don’t forget there is Iran, China, North Korea ever ready to supply fresh nukes to Pakistan. Imagine stone age barbarism with nukes. What would US do then, bomb China to stone age?? Simply ridiculous thought.

This whole blog shows the ignorant nature of US people. Wake Up Guys!!!!

I guess shrewd diplomatic solution that I suggested above is somewhat feasible. That is push Afghanistan into perpetual civil war and make pashtuns busy fighting among themselves and keep diplomatic pressure mounting on Pakistan. But yes US will have to allocate quite a lot of money from its budget towards Afghan war in name of security. Kind of cold war with US and Northern Alliance on one side and Taliban and party on other side. And US forces do not directly intervene but just provide weaponry and training to its Pashtun allies.

Posted by 007XXX | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan is a 180 million strong Muslim nation equipped with nuclear weapons. Any outside nation which thrusts war upon Pakistan and threatens Pakistan’s existence. In such a scenario where Pakistan’s soveirgnity is challenged, I can be absolutely sure it will result a retaliatory nuclear strike by Pakistan.
Pakistan should not be mistaken as Iraq or Afghanistan, for decades Pakistan had clandestinely worked to acquire nuclear weapons. Its too late, Pakistan is way stronger and capable to thwart external aggression.

Good luck war mongerers! Nuclear weapons ultimate guarantors of peace. Welcome to the Pakistan quagmire, save your a*s and leave, it is a better option.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Derick Wall:
” In such a situation, the only option left is to attack Pakistan ”

-With the world 7th largest Army equipped with nuclear weapons, an attack on Pakistan is a very bad option.
While Iraq had suspected WMD (weapons of mass destruction), Pakistan on the contrary have confirmed WUD (Weapons of ultimate destruction). You can still try your luck.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan is facing their own music, they advocated and encouraged Terrorist in India/Afghanistan and now its backfiring. Pakistan Govt. should focus on the welfare of the country especially on education, job creation, infrastructure instead of wasting precious resources on Army and Kashmir.

 

What a travesty of facts and audacity to talk of another country being a dangerous country. The dangerous is that country where in the Prime Minister is killed by the security guard of the Prime Minister. If it is not a dangerous country in regard to the reliability of the people then how can be Pakistan be dangerous country. Is it because it could not kill its political head of the government surreptitiously like that done in India.. What a combination of treacherous humankind are the Indians.

May be the world is not aware that India is the worst Genocide Committal country. They being citizen do not know that for decades a genocide case is hanging in Indian Supreme Court. Should have been more ashamed to pronounce a single word against another country because of the fact that country had nothing to hide about that is why it is fighting against the Taliban terrorists along with the US and NATO force.

India should also be care before pointing finger on other sovereign states with malicious propaganda and intent as it is itself is a homegrown terrorist’s country. Can India deny the fact that all the states in the east including the seven sister states, west Bengal until, In the east Punjab (SIKHS) and in the south the Tamils all wanted/wants to secede, why? Answer my friends. Is it because of Pakistan’s instigation or Hindu elites and politicians coercive misrule as it is done in Kashmir.

Does the world know how many Muslims have been killed like birds and no Inquiry was allowed to be conducted by India to the Human Rights activists not even inquired by the then governments. If that would have been done then dozens of genocide cases would be hanging in India’s Neck. What about the killing of recent days that also is let off from holding Inquiry.. It was crime against humanity. Why the Human Rights is not submitting any report because of what? find out. The UN Secretary General had to beg Indian government to stop killing innocent protesters.

One day India will have to reply for all the misdeeds. In Mumbai riot, Muslim were killing because of political sponsored killing no punitive measures had been taken though it was crime against humanity. Just because people of the west we are least bothered much about what is happening around us do not mean all of us are clueless and one eyed jack.

Coming to point after the facts narrated above which country seem to extremely dangerous India or Pakistan? However, I would spare commenting on the writer of the article.

Posted by KINGFISHER | Report as abusive
 

Devils have come to drag Pakistan into war or trying to bring war, after killing of millions in Vietname, Iraq and Afghanistan due to their greed and to acheive their dirty imperialistic goals. People are so blind and stupid, they even sold their soul to devil and turned their cheerleaders(cheerleaders normally reffered to good looking and sexy girls but here i refer to ugly faces demons) cant grasp the ultimate result. Btw cheerleading considered an ultimate sport, so let them enjoy it as much as they can before the result turned them wrinkled scary ghosts.

Posted by Khan | Report as abusive
 

Today, we must genuinely be concerned about the terrorism and the misuse of media for purely political propaganda which is causing great unrest and enimosity among the people of the globalised world.
.Terrorism is being instigated by the States first(USA has now the lead after the fall of communist Soviet Union) official foreign policies and their military adventure outside their borders.
.Every sixth person in the world is an Indian who, because of their over population, the major gap between the rich and poor, and internal strifes on account of ethnic divide, but very vibrant political thinking, do not hesitate to pour out their venom at their neighbour Pakistan on a regular basis. Though we should recognise that centuries of muslims rule in their land followed by the British colonisation, the fabric of their society is very thin and has been broken down on several occasions resulting in their regular use of military in suppression of their citizens.
Apart from other concerns including climate change, the actions of rogue capitalists,both of these phenomina are going to get worst unless the UNO is reformed so that the world does come to some order. We have the examples of China, Japan, the European Region, Brazil and Russia, to mention major players,who are developing a bond among their people and to create a society based on humanity.
The UNO must be reformed to bring the so called two major democracies of the world to order for human rights.
The rest is nothing more than the diversion. Like the old German Chancellor recently said about the skirmishes in Afghanistn. From Mongols to brits and Russians, no one has been able to defeat them, and it is about time to negotiate, but with whom, and withdraw. In his view the only intelligent invader in the history was the Alexander the great, who entered Afghanistan and left to wards India. Was he proposing that the Americans and the NATO should leave and move towards India and Kashmir? I am not sure?
The most realistic course would be to empower the UNO general Assy. to act against the rogue states, without exception and disregard the veto rights of some countries.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

As a nation Pakistan is soon going to break into several pieces if the people do not wake up. No country in the world had sustained this kind of an abuse to there own people buy there own government and military. There are many examples like the USSR, Germany, and Korea etc. All the angry reaction from the Pakistani people for the US and towards India are made up by there political and military establishments to make it legitimate. But it’s not the fault of neither the US nor India or another that matter. Pakistani people should realize that and rise up to there government and military and demand a peaceful Pakistan for there future and for there children’s. An eye for an eye will make everyone blind.

Posted by Billy | Report as abusive
 

@Billy
you named the two, i named them as well. the solutions are different. the soviet Union went to sleep without a noise and the USA and India are going to sleep like babies in year 2010. The 2011 would show us the dawn, when china would become the most liked power in the world and who knows perhaps a chinese american would eventually be the next President of the USA.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

The source of most conflicts in this world are from the Abrahamic world. Christians, Jews and Muslims cannot get along, because each one of them feel they have cornered God’s love. Each one think that God loves them more.

That is the problem. How many global wars have we seen started by zoroasters, hindus, zen, shinto, and buddhists?

With regards to Billy’s statement above, an “an eye for an eye makes everyone blind”…..that is so true and I believe that was a statement by Gandhi or some other hindu pacifist.

Most wars in this world stem from the political ideological differences in how each of the three abrahamics perceive their self-importance with relation to God. That is the root cause of most global conflict.

Most Religious centers from the starting of time, until today are spineless, and godless as ever, failing to stop people from butchering and fighting.

The world needs to abandon its current perception of religion and the politics of it and embrace a further universal code of moral conduct, outside of religion, only then can different peoples co-exist in the same space, without killing each other.

For a start, there needs to be a greater leadership at the UN level to impart democracy, human rights, education, capitalism and political correctness.

There is a subtle, nevertheless powerful, all-pervasive evil creed preventing humanity from waking up and realizing its full potential. The reason I say this, is because we just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again, like a child with no memory or attention span.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

Every country has a bad memory of there past war. It is not important how you remember it but how you forget it and move on. USA atomic boomed Japan and ended the world war but now USA and Japan are one of the closest ally’s and Japan went on to become the second largest economy in the world. During the cold war USSR supported Cuba and North Korea once USSR broke; look at those countries’s they are virtually alienated from rest of the world and labeled rough states. Just because a powerful nation is backing or showing support not necessarily mean’s they are your blank cheque friends and support every action you take. No country can say they have the power to rule this world neither USA nor China everyone has to live together. History has thought us many lesson’s its high time we remember them and learn from our past mistakes and try not to repeat them.

Posted by Billy | Report as abusive
 

US should leave the ‘ dirty-filthy-uncivilized-stone age’ areas alone instead of killing and getting killed. Live in peace and leave the rest to their fate. No one invited you, a cruel state planted in there will have to come to terms and realize its mistakes and quit. The monarchs and oligarchs of the region will meet their doom. Why waste your sleep, enjoy TV, Baseball, Basketball, Miss Beauty contests, Miss Swimsuit shows, wet your kissers with a six pack and stuff your appetite with a triple decker, a 32 oz T Bone, that’s life instead of the dry rickety lands where the birds don’t fly. Just keep on sending the Drones loaded with Hellfire missiles.

Posted by Zaheer Uddin | Report as abusive
 

I must say its amazing how much of our educated academics are so narrow minded and ignorant of the truth. All hail the USA who trained Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussain and others! Only for there own interests! Then they stage 911 which is pretty much been proven on countless times but what do u say to those who see something proved time and time again yet stil dont believe it im not sure if its blind or stupid! So going bk to PAKISTAN yes i agree its corrupt and requires work but who has put the world into this unstable and fearful focus THE USA. By providing Israel with amunition to kill Palestinians what do u think ur solving the problem? Israel is performing blatant human rights violations and the world can sit back and watch!!! The is not a war against extremism it is a war against ISLAM and unless this stance is changed then i fear for all MUSLIMS as we will be suffering more than the PALESTINIANS.

Posted by Kaz | Report as abusive
 

Kaz: “they stage 911 which is pretty much been proven on countless times”

I think it’s safe to say that whatever cave country you come from, the definition of the word “proven” is quite different from what it is, in the dictionary. Stupid stanis!!!

Posted by Pauly | Report as abusive
 

We could never win the war against terrorism simply because they used the same incorrect strategies. First of all, we should associate any religion with terrorists, especially Islam. Even most of the terrorist CLAIMED to be muslims in fact they are not. They are muslims by birth only and not by practise.

Just like Christian, Muslims are divided into several groups, about 72 groups. Out of these only 1 groups really practice the true teachings of Islam. For example, in Pakistan, there are several groups of Muslims and all are very aggressive except this one group. The same in Indonesia, Afghanistan and the rest of the Muslim countries.

I have studied a number of religions for 20 years now, and all the religions that i studied advocate to treasure all live except for one religion which only thinks that their religion and race is superior to Christians, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, and any other.

If we want to win the war we have to understand them and find out the main weaknesses, because their are only interested in POWER AND WEALTH and use Islam ideology to gain followers. In other words, the followers are either idiots or blindmen.

Stop using the 911 events as an excuse to blame Islam. I dont think it has anything to do with Islam. The reason is simply because on that day I found something peculiar happened. A friend of mine, Yoel but we called him Joel, called me at about 8 am telling me not to go to the office. He further told me they? all were not coming and that they were told something bad was going to happen. If it weren’t for him I would be dead. Later on I found out that they refers to their religious friend. But who told them? And how did they it was going to happen? He declined to say anything.

Anyway, fighting fire with fire with them will not work. It will only make them angry and strengthened their bond among them and used that as an excuse to retaliate. Wont you if your friends, family members, or relatives were killed. Of course we would, the 911 proved that. In fact I was outrage and blamed Muslims for the tragedy.

So if we want to eradicate the terrorist we need to understand them, just like a Chinese proverb “Know your enemy and win a 1000 battles”. So far we dont really know the enemy. The intel gathered by CIA were not really accurate and obtained from wrong sources.

The clue is POWER AND WEALTH, and they will fall.

Posted by Andrew | Report as abusive
 

@Andrew
“The clue is POWER AND WEALTH, and they will fall.”

That has been the clue since Adam and Eve times but human beings have failed continuously to learn from past. What people do is kill in name of religion without realising what religion actually preaches. And innocent people who are fools enough to blindly follow religion play right into the hands of corrupt politicians/leaders/terrorists whatever u call them; and these innocent people are therefore the biggest culprits and victims as well of this blind faith stupidity. And specially Muslims and Jews c every other thing in world from lens of religion and hence their distorted views of the world events. Blind faith is far far more dangerous than no faith at all.

As for USA it is all about OIL, all that is going on is great oil wars. USA created Laden and now Laden asks USA why USA drinks up all oil of middle east and recently it was Iran who questioned the same. USA drinks all oil and in return give dollar which effectively is just a piece of paper. U ask US to pay in gold and US economy will fall like peck of cards. And since USA has sensed this growing dissatisfaction among Oil producing middle east muslim countries so it created wars out of thin air, US could not find a single WMD in Iraq but it did find lots of Oil for itself. Lets c how far these oil wars go. I think the way out lies in researching for an alternative feasible source of energy. But that may take another few decades.

In my opinion the humanity is a way of nature to self destruct itself.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

The rant posted by Andrew on Oct 5th above is a clear cut obvious anti-semite rant. It should be deleted by moderators at once. Are they listening? Or is it now acceptable to post anti-semite rants on left leaning “liberal” news sites?

Posted by nvrfgetmumbai | Report as abusive
 

Whereas, US seems would surely fail in its foul play mission in turning Pakistan as the central battleground because the people of Pakistan dislike/hate such negative moves based on the soil of their (Pakistanis’) lovely motherland.

 

Not trio.

America is now making full proof id cards for everyone in Afghanistan.

America will first make id cards for people in hemland, then everyone Afghanistan.

what that does is stops a endless supply of Taliban men moving into Afghanistan. everyone will need a id card to be in each area.

every person seen in 24 hours, will be asked for there id cards.
24/7 show us your id card and scan there eyes as well.
all check points will check all id cards.
troops will over the next 1 year, go houses to house flooding in a extra 3,000 troops to do this over 1 month each area, asking to see everyone’s id card. the same group of troops will then do the next area and so on, unto they have checked every inch within that area / all areas.

now America will set up taps to kill off the Taliban that got id cards made.

the Taliban will attack the troops, they will not no what a trap is and what is not.

clearly there is not 500 drones to watch 1,000 roads, so you do it like this to kill them off.

only drive 35 MRAPs on 4 roads, then put a drone over them roads 24/7, waiting for them to take the bait.

you would even set a trap up with 1 MRAP that takes a road by its self, it will have a drone overhead, and that drone will look at them roads waiting for them too plant a IED bomb at night time or daytime.

first you show them 3 roads with good cover up to the roads, that 40 MRAPs drive on all day unto night time, then the Taliban men will try plant a IED bomb on that road / trap.

all bases and check points out deep in Afghanistan, will have a drone over head, or flying from 1 to the other non stop ready for a attack, that will kill the Taliban instantly.

troops that go out on walks will now have a drone over there heads, turning a Taliban ambush into a ambush on the Taliban.

America will use 3-4 drones and 2 helicopters to do this.

A drones will fly from 1 group to the next group 24/7, covering 5 groups of troops within 24 hours.
so 4 drones and 2 helicopters can cover almost 30 groups of troops going on 4 hour walks over 24 hours in each area.

Now the troops will let the Taliban spotters see them, and the drone will be flying at like 15,000 feet over head looking at what is up ahead / a Taliban ambush.

The drone can now see Taliban ambushes up ahead and can take them out.
ether way, the drone will ether see the ambush and take them out, or the troops will make contact and tell the drone where to drop the bombs within 20 seconds.
the drone can also tell the troops where people are standing, so it will never be a surprise attack. so sometimes the drone will not see if they have weapons on them, but can tell the troops where to point there weapons when the get near. the drone will kill them instantly / as soon as contact has happens.

there is 100ds of traps the troops can do, and this war fighting the Taliban is going to be over within 4 years. i don’t have time to say them all.

right now American troops are seeing and writing down what police or Afghan army men are killing the Taliban for fun. the troops and police that run them down with passion. them people will form the top police chiefs and top ten men under him, and army commanders.
you can see who you can trust and who really is fighting the Taliban with passion

in the end the Taliban will be killed off over 3 years tops, and a endless supply of Taliban men will be no more. full proof id cards.

it will be sending all troops to the border with 95% of drones.

there will be a new law that, the area / hills near the border are a no go zone. know one can be there.

drones will drop bombs on anyone they see with of without a gun. or if they see people with guns they will take them out.
people can only enter Afghanistan on listed roads that will have bomb proof check points that have sniffer dogs as well.
if anyone is seen trying to go side streets into Afghanistan, a helicopter will force them to stop at gun point.

all helicopters and drones will flood Pakistans border. mass bases will be build there as 95% of troops will build bases right on the border in patons, that drones will covers in-between each base.
all them bases will have heat and sound weapons, that will be left on 24/7. that will 100% stop a attack to over run the bases.

we can really stop the Taliban for good and hold the Taliban back from Afghanistan easy. Pakistan in return will loss all funding and can deal with the Taliban them self’s.

once all the solar panels go to troops in bases in Afghanistan, we will not need 97% of trucks shipping in fuel from Pakistan.
you not that 20 troops in 1 base will cost America on fuel cost something like 100,000 dollars a day. in a week it cost like 1 million $. $200,000 worth of solar panels would be more then is needed each base. $100,0000 worth of battery’s is more then is needed.
after 1 week, they pay off the solar panels and start to save mass billions of $.

in the end all them solar panels can be handed to the government and people in Afghanistan, that would make them have mass free power.
don’t forget Afghans only use 1 light and a kettle. they don’t have plasma’s or 6 amp computers.
America could cut the fuel budget buy 100% after 2 weeks, but should just keep buying mass solar panels for 1 year to flood a mass mass mass amount of power to the Afghanistan people.
if they did this 3 years ago and just keep spending the same amount on solar panels to what they spend on fuel, at least 75% of Afghanistan would be all green.

Posted by Scott r | Report as abusive
 

@scott
you forgot to mention the Space hip the USA is going to position above Afghanistan, with commander kirk, spoc and scotty to supply and evacuate the soldier when necessary. Right now one hears about the bone fire on pakistan Roads. Are the solar panels are replacing the conventional petrol now. And what about the replacement for the seriously ill commander on the ground? Are there plans to bring in an afro american? Mr Obama team is deserting him, no wonder the rats ususualy try to leave the sinking ship. Your Ballad is encouraging.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

Rex Minor,

You continue to show off your ignorance, and seem to ake pride in it. You revel in a few centuries of Muslim domination of India. Do you know how old Indian civilization is? It has survived more thousands of years than your mere centuries of Muslim domination. You call that a shallow culture, or that the fabric of its society has broken down. Wishful thinking.

Write a joke book, it will be a best seller. Arrogance is normally born out of abysmal ignorance – how true.

And waffle all you want guys, the fact remains that Pakistan is a nation that uses violence and intrigue as an instrument of State policy. Ask Mush and save your rants. That is what this discussion is about. Not how India is the big bad wolf.

Posted by Dara | Report as abusive
 

@Dara
in my view India and Pakistan are the two sides of the same coin. The Pakistan population awas lucky to have the experience of enlightenment with Islam, while most of the Indian people made a very little progress in their so called culture made of caste system with lack of regards for the human dignity. The prophets of God brought several commandments from the all mighty God and thus became the three Ibrahim religions namely Judaism, christinity and islam. and during all this period most of the Indian population stuck to their worship of idols. Sir, if Indians want to hang on to their past it is their business, but they need to learn to be civil first before using the word civilisation! Your subject related comments would always be welcomed, though different than mine.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

“So called culture.” Sir you confirm my opinion expressed earlier – ignorance.

has it struck you that Hinduism has been around for thousands of years before the advent of Christianity and Islam. That does not make Islam or Christianity any less. But it also says a lot about Hinduism. It still flourishes and grows. So too with Indian culture. Please don’t talk of caste. You have as much distinction and groupism in islam as others. Ask the Qadianis, Ahmediyas, and Sufis.

To get back to my point. All this is just to get away from the main point. A red herring and strawman. Even with all that Pakistan has gained from enlightened Islamic culture, it still remains the hot bed of fanaticism, terrorism, violence and treachery. To remain in denial, my dear sir, is your absolute right.

Posted by Dara | Report as abusive
 

Lets hope Afghanistan prove a catalyst for an alternative energy revolution. Its enough of dying for this damn oil thing. We hope all our world turn green and no need arise for hovering of these godly drones, choppers, warplanes etc to slaughter people.Just wonder if human being succeeding in replacing this energy, then will we still need these war machines ?? If no, then how the trade of billions dollar of these deadly weapons will run? I think there will again be several ways and excuses be created to continue conflicts and to shed blood. But lets hope this time human creativity move on positive side by replacing weapon industry with the industry for products of solar and renewable energy.

Posted by Khan | Report as abusive
 

@Rex Minor –you forgot to mention the Space hip the USA is going to position above Afghanistan, with commander kirk, spoc and scotty—
———————————————————
What tha ^.
There will be something position above Afghanistan,
HAARP High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program, that will push the atmosphere up, then back down, shaking all of Afghanistan, a very small bit, to let off all them very sensitive IED bombs. what a 000.1 earthquake that people will not even really notice.
hay, beam me up Rex

hang on rex, maybe they can use that on north Korea to take out all of there land mines.

maybe you should come up with a strategy like this.

north Korea can fire 15,000 artillery rounds at south Korea soul, before America could take out all artillery weapons.

maybe they should put up 25,000 cheap barrage balloons and blips all in the sky over soul, up to the border. that should stop all artillery rounds from hitting south Koreans soul.

then they should set all defence missiles to only target the north only carrying nuclear missile.well that missile goes 700km faster that all there other missiles, so the radar missile defence system, will only target missiles flying faster then 3,600km.
o yes, there missile have jamming devises and EMP too :) :)

Posted by Scott r | Report as abusive
 

@Rex Minor –ou forgot to mention the Space hip the USA is going to position above Afghanistan, with commander kirk, spoc and scotty—

what tha
there will be something position above Afghanistan,
HAARP High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program, that will push the atmosphere up, then back down, shaking all of Afghanistan, a very small bit, to let off all them very sensitive IED bombs. what a 000.1 earthquake that people will not even really notice.
hay, beam me up Rex

Posted by Scott r | Report as abusive
 

@Dara
What Rex wants to say is that Islam is greatest and rest (especially hindus and jews) are Kaafirs. In one of the other blogs he responded to my commentary as saying that “777 is believer (in Islam) though he claims to be hindu”, so in his opinion it is ONLY Islam that can be any good and rest all are worst. He can NEVER GIVE respect to other religions. This kind of attitude is what eventually contributes to terrorism. So don’t take him seriously and just laugh. As a matter of fact I am thankful to him for giving me daily laughter dose with his stupid and foolish commentary. And thank God (Allah, if someone likes that way) India is not enlightened the same way as Pakistan where its always mullah, militant and mess. India officially declared caste system as illegal in 1950 and Pakistan officially declared hindus, sikhs, ahmediyas, etc, etc as there-to-be-butchered. Good India is still not enlightened.

@Khan
U r probably right that human kind will invent new excuses to create wars and keep this multi billion dollar trade of arms alive. As I said in end that human race is a self destructive mechanism of mother nature. But lets hope the world end in a greener and cleaner environment.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

Will USA and the NATO attack Pakistan in pursuit of Taliban, if the Pakistanis deny it? If so when? What will Pakistan do if they decide to attack? Will the government collapse and tune into another Afghanistan or they should allow the forces to Hot pursuit of Taliban?

What if another attack to India happens like the Mumbai attack, Will India attack Pakistan? Will the USA support the attack? If India attacks Pakistan will China attack India in support of Pakistan?

I think these are the present questions need to be keeping an eye on.

Posted by Jeff | Report as abusive
 

Just as I had predicted….

And there’s more fun yet to come.

Posted by Keithz | Report as abusive
 

@Dara
I had no intention to discuss religion with people who are not believers or practice a different faith.you keep your religion and let me keep mine, these are the words of the prophet of Islam and not mine. Those muslims who regard themselves as some kind of a superior human is nuts or regard debases others religion has gone crackers.
We should at least try to meet at a little upgraded human and an intellectual level. Hinduism has been there for thousand of years and there is no denial of the history, but not the civilisation of people in Hndu land. Here is the disagreement,to worship man made statues and sending the woman for cremation with the dead husband is barbaric. The muslim invaders from the North did not come to enjoy the orchards of the himalayas, or to conquer the foreign land, but in reality came to destroy the power basis and temples of the people who had no knowledge of the God almighty similar to many tribes around the world. They did put a stop to many barbaric practices in Indai. The christian armies made inroads in africa and soth america. No muslim would consider jews or christians as non believers, for they all practice Ibrahim religion. Today you have a large population of muslims in India and Pakistan, most of them had non muslim ancestors. Even several Pashtoon tribes of today’s Pakistan and Afghanistan were originaly jews or mongols and of other origans, who came from the middle east and central asia and settled down mostly in the North.
Today we meet at the humanity level with human rights universally accepted, and Gods commandments imbedded in most constitutions of the western world. The USA stands alone in sending their citizens to gallows, despite the fact that “though shall not kill” commandment of God is what their religion tells them. No one has the right to glorify their religion, I certainly do not, or consider others as kaaffirs, I even gave a status to 777 of a muslim, not out of disrespect but respect for his teachings despite his announcement of being of hindu faith. Many visiting German Doctors to Afghanistan are addressed by the pashtoos as muslims, not out of disrespect but the belief that the guy must be a muslim on account of their compassion for sufferings of Pashtoons. let us talk about the present and let past stay shut in the archivs.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

“America takes the war deeper into Pakistan”

Anybody who’s been paying attention (including many on this blog) could predict quite some time back that this would eventually happen. It was apparent from the begining that Pakistan was unwilling & incapable of taking on the various terror outfits on it’s soil & after getting frustrated, the US/NATO would have to take matters in their own hands. The next step (which has already started as well) is conventional arial bombardment targeting the terrorists hiding in Pakistan. There’s no stopping now.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

777,
I dont take him at all seriously, he is trying to impress, just want to get it across that it isn’t succeeding. :)

Posted by Dara | Report as abusive
 

Another tanker carvan of NATO is burned. Tensions and heat are rising between Pakistan and NATO. What’s next? Will US put its threat of retribution to action? This fight will get more and more dirty for everyone involved.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

Mr Minor,

“Hinduism has been there for thousand of years and there is no denial of the history, but not the civilisation of people in Hndu land. Here is the disagreement,to worship man made statues and sending the woman for cremation with the dead husband is barbaric. ”

Firstly, when you discuss idol worship, sati etc you expect me to believe you are not discussing a religion? “I had no intention to discuss religion with people who are not believers or practice a different faith.you keep your religion and let me keep mine, these are the words of the prophet of Islam and not mine.” So what are you discussing if not another religion?

People in Hindu land? Well Im a people of Hinduland, but not a Hindu. In this land there are Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Christians, Jews….you name it we have it. So, when discussing people of Hundu land, are you discussing only those who are not exposed to or have been, as you said earlier, enlightened by Islam? Don’t forget the people who are now in Pakistan were once part of Hindu land and much before Islam arrived on the scene. Anyway its pointless, you’ll probably go off again at a tangent and look for wiggle. Im just saying this to respond, hopefully for the last time, to what I feel is baseless, ignorant and contradicting allegation.

My upbringing does not permit to mention barbaric practices that other faiths have also followed……. but they have been there and some still exists is all I will say. I could also take you on about true believers etc but its a waste of energy and time for me, for the simple reason that it matters not to me what others believe in as far as faith goes. Man needs faith and belief and they are all right. To me it is the person that matters and how he conducts his personal life that will decide what happens in the hereafter.

“We should at least try to meet at a little upgraded human and an intellectual level. ” Whats that supposed to mean? Which brings me back to what I started with yesterday. This is all waffle. The issue was side stepped.

Posted by Dara | Report as abusive
 

Mortal:
“There’s no stopping now.”

-Yes, there is no stopping now. Pakistan has choked the logistical lifeline of NATO troops, daily dozens of NATO fuel tankers are burnt down and convoys are under attack. Both Torkham and Chaman border crossings have been shut down and Pakistan Military will use its full leverage. Pakistan Air Force will jump into action to defend the aerial frontiers, already a former Army chief of staff has called the Air Force to shoot down anything crossing into Pakistan’s western airspace. Good Luck!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Gentlemen, Let us not get emotional, We are witnessing the last phase of the conflict in the Pashtoon land. It is the Pashtoons who are now calling the shots against the decorated general of jewish descent. Both the foreign and the Pakistan military are shying away from direct contact with the Pashtoon resistanceforce and have got used to aerial reconisence and assasination tactics used by Israel army. Poor sods,even in the Pakistan main land the resistance tide can no longer be stopped by the military or para military of the land. From Swat down to Karachi the land is now controlled by the Pashtoon resistance.The apology from the USA has come too late, the responsible USA strategy planners are now examining the strategy they used in disengagement from vietnam. Pakistan civilian and military chiefs are mustering their stregnth to protect the integrity of their country borders. The NATO spokesman has announced that the closure of the borders and the destruction of their supply armada has no impact on their performance in Afghanistn. Right he is, they have nothing to show their leaders about their performance.
Only one thing is extraordinary, every one appears to be concerned about the fate of the drivers. They are simply fools, even the drivers are Pashtoon. Non Pashtoons are in danger.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

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