Afghan Journal

Lifting the veil on conflict, culture and politics

America takes the war deeper into Pakistan

October 4, 2010

PAKISTAN-NATO/ATTACK

One of the most interesting things in Bob Woodward’s re-telling of the Afghan war strategy in his book “Obama’s Wars” is the approach toward Pakistan. It seems the Obama administration figured out pretty early on in its review that Pakistan was going to be the central batttleground, for this is where the main threat to America came from.

Indeed, the mission in Afghanistan was doomed so long as al Qaeda and the Taliban were sheltered in the mountains of northwest Pakistan straddling the Afghan border. The question was how do you deal with Pakistan?

Like much else, the administration debated long and hard just how far to push Pakistan to cracking down on the militants, some of whom it had spawned as assets in Aghanistan and as a front against its much bigger traditional enemy, India. One of those arguing for a tougher posture inside the administration was Dennis Blair, then the director of National Intelligence who thought there were just too many carrots being handed out and not enough sticks. He suggested the United States bomb targets inside Pakistan without seeking Islamabad’s approval. “I think Pakistan would be completely, completely pissed off and they would probably take actions against us … but they would probably adjust,” he once told Obama.

Josh Rogin, recounting the debate from a piece in Foreign Policy, said that Obama chose a less confrontational path toward Pakistan. A year later, patience is running out. Last week’s repeated incursions by NATO helicopters  from Afghanistan into Pakistan while pursuing militants seemed to signal a new, muscular strategy of the type Blair advocated.

Three Pakistani soldiers were killed in an attack by a NATO helicopter, triggering outrage and prompting authorities to close down a supply route for NATO troops in Afghanistan. Trucks carrying fuel for the foreign troops were set on fire in southern Pakistan in apparent retaliation for the soldiers’ deaths, and on Monday, three guards were killed in an attack on tankers bound for Afghanistan in the nation’s capital.

By choking off NATO supplies, even temporarily, the Pakistanis are saying they have had enough, says Robert Haddick, editor of The Small Wars Journal. While NATO said the helicopter strikes were carried out in self-defense after cross-border firing and in line with the rules of engagement, Pakistan saw it as a flagrant violation of its sovereignty, which is already under sustained pressure from the United States.

For Pakistani officials, it became one slice of the salami too much. These officials have accustomed themselves to the CIA’s drone campaign inside Pakistan, a campaign that accelerated sharply in September. If U.S. policymakers thought they could get Pakistani officials to get accustomed to ever more aggressive air raids into the sanctuaries, Pakistan’s closure of the border is designed to bring those thoughts to an end.

Where do the two nations go from here? As Haddick noted, the drone campaign has already turned intense, with over 20 strikes in September, almost double the previous highest in January when the CIA vowed revenge for the attack on a post in Khost in eastern Afghanistan. Pakistan seems to have resigned itself to thes attacks by unmanned U.S. planes; there was hardly a protest at the sustained bombardment last month which was quite  a contrast from the time when people took to the streets each time a Hellfire missile was fired.

The worry, then, in Pakistan must be the more frequent these incursions become, the weaker the resistance over time. It’s a slippery slope. First the unmanned drones became part of the Pakistani landscape, hovering over its skies for hours and raining missiles. Then, manned incursions by helicopters, some of them as deep as 5 km inside Pakistani territory according to reports in the local newspapers. Tomorrow it could be small bands of troops or special forces crossing the border in “hot pursuit,” something no self-respecting army, least of all Pakistan’s professional army  can accept.

For, all this may eventually also play into what happens on Pakistan’s eastern flank where it confronts India’s huge military. If the U.S. and NATO can cross the border in hot pursuit and in line with the rules of engagement, what stops India from doing it next time there is a militant attack on its soil. Isn’t it going to be harder to hold them back if they want to go across the ceasefire line in Kashmir?

Comments

Pakistan has not exactly been the honest broker here. It uses terrorists for political ends in the region whilst demanding Western aid, with a sense of entitlement that is frankly embarrassing. They will be held to account.

Posted by James | Report as abusive
 

salam.accordig to my views america destroying very soon.like russian.i am agree with your arguments

 

The thing that stops India from chasing “militants” into Pakistan is that India is not a Pakistani ally and an intrusion will be considered an act of war. For which I am sure Pakistan wil give a befitting response. Besides, the unrest in Kashmir is not cause by “militants” any more, it is caused by opressed civilians. That’s the reason why majority of the killed were unarmed teenagers and young adults. India should not try and compare itself to welfare states when it is no more than a third world country. It isn’t Bollywood, it’s real life.

Posted by Vi | Report as abusive
 

As an American I feel Pakistan is behaving like mysterious lady of the evening who will not perform her job unless her master or the customer will pay more money even after a price was already agreed upon.

This political trick will only work so many times. In a a war soldiers will die, just like the US and Nato soldiers die all the time. Pakistan can not stop performing her job and ask for more money and tchnology every other month because this shows a sign of being a weak and questionable ally with clearly other anti-Nato motives. She was paid, now she must perform.

Posted by Agmet Hamitenzcik | Report as abusive
 

The current chinese Premier said recently on CNN, about his interest in history books. I would suggest that the readers on this blog read the history books to appreciate the situation in the Pashtoon land. Let us forget for a moment the so called afghanistan and Pakistan who happened to be associted with these people. The land is controlled by the powerful pashtoon tribes and there are so many of them fully independent of one another. The events we are witnessing reflect the history of previous foreign forces who got sucked into the land and lost their empires. The USA and the defeated armies of NATI in World war 2 are the weakest who ever confronted these people. They pay them money for using the roads in their land and suffer casualties from IED’s whenever they try to use the roads during unauthorised period and even support them in the drug trade. Pakistan military or the civilian Pakistan Govt. has very little to contribut other than to allow only the licensed Pashtoon truck owners to carry the weaponry and food for the soldiers. Today the USA and NATO products destined for soldiers are sold in the open m arkets of Peshawar, similar to the sale of Russian articles being sold on Berlin pavements when the Russians were there. Pakistan military is no longer preventing the assault on these unguarded supplies even in the main Pakistan. It would seem that the battle is being conducted by the so called taliban commandos, the all out assault on the enemy has not yet been approved by the chiefs. The rag tag army of the invaders is too weak to warrant such an attack.
@Agmet,The lady is innocent and playing no significant part in the show. The war theatre is on the Afghan side where neither the Americans nor the NATO armioes show their flags, other than a quick fly over with their drones and the helicopters. Even the sophisticated Tornados of the German army have been withdrawn and the Nato armies are in the process of departing. The publishing of Bob Woodward book has always been a sign that the show is coming to an end, the article is making too much fuss about the few deaths on the part of the para military idiots and the burning of few petrol tanhers.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

I believe that instead of military solution there has to be a very shrewd diplomatic solution to afghanistan. There are many pashtoon tribes in region and when Northern Alliance entered Kabul we saw pictures of people rejoicing and dancing. My point is USA and NATO should keep spending continuously on keeping the rivalry up between pashtun tribes. Push Afghanistan into a perpetual civil war that keeps these pashtuns busy fighting among themselves. This would save a million lives outside Afghanistan but of course the cost in dollars would be substantial. It will be like a cold war scenario where it is Afghanistan vs Rest of the world and no govt (not even Iran) in world would oppose US/NATO continuous financial and strategic support of Northern Alliance (Yes there is already such support but it is bent too much on military effort) while keeping the pressure continuously on Pakistan. Problem with West is that they are used to FINISH the problems and are not very used to solutions that just go on and on. So if West thinks of so called wiping out terrorists then for all practical purposes that is impossible. But making terrorists kill each other is quite possible.

Posted by 007XXX | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan has proven enough that it is a rogue, terrorist country which is the biggest threat to the world & it’s “professional” army is the biggest terrorist outfit in the world. They will simply NOT eliminate terrorism from their soil & nor allow others to do it. In such a situation, the only option left is to attack Pakistan & annihilate every terrorist hiding in it’s caves & destroy it’s nukes. After finishing off the threat, Pakistan should be devided in 7 or 8 smaller nations. This is the only way, the world can save itself from terrorism.

Posted by Derick Wall | Report as abusive
 

@DWall
Not bad solution. Now try and replace the name Pakistan with that of the USA and your stzatement would look more realistic.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

@Derick
“Pakistan has proven enough that it is a rogue, terrorist country which is the biggest threat to the world & it’s “professional” army is the biggest terrorist outfit in the world. ”

When India kept on shouting this then West did not listen and in fact continued to support Pakistan AGAINST India. As we have a saying in India, “those who create pits for others are the ones themselves to fall in those pits”. This monster of terrorism was created by US only and now US is paying the heaviest price along with everyone else.

“the only option left is to attack Pakistan & annihilate every terrorist hiding in it’s caves & destroy it’s nukes”

Do u even realise what u r saying. US will have to suck every single of its citizen’s blood to get the amount of money for such an adventure. And even then its success rate will be very low. And r u proposing that while destroying nukes a few thousand citizens on Indo-Pak border may die and cripple the generations to come. Better option will be to buy nuke fuel (Uranium, plutonium, etc) as Pakistani administration officials can sell even their mothers given the right price.

Posted by 007XXX | Report as abusive
 

It is a little too late. The US should have decimated Pakistan in 2001 itself. It had the world support at that time.

It is better to work towards removing the nukes from this dangerous country, by coercion and sanctions.

 

Guys,

I don’t have a very high opinion of Pakistan either. The tick here is starting to get a little on the scary side. Many people here seem to be advocating a violent stance towards Pakistan. Will creating more war fix Pakistan? I don’t think so. Removing their nxkes will not work either.

Any attack on pakistan and these guys will very easily morph into a super terrorist state, much worse than Iran or even the slithery hezbollah. The already do have the world hostage. Pakistan has had the world hostage since 911. We need to find a way to stabilize pakistan and bring a common understanding to India, Pakistan, United States and Afghanistan, as well as the many smaller surrounding nations. Commonalities will be what brings together these countries.

Barack Obama and his Defense delegation need to talk directly to Islamabad, directly to Kayani and the civilian leaders like Gilani and Zardari may tag along for some burfi and chai as well, since that is all that they are good for.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

Sanjeev, you said:

“For, all this may eventually also play into what happens on Pakistan’s eastern flank where it confronts India’s huge military. If the U.S. and NATO can cross the border in hot pursuit and in line with the rules of engagement, what stops India from doing it next time there is a militant attack on its soil. Isn’t it going to be harder to hold them back if they want to go across the ceasefire line in Kashmir?”

–>With non monitary compensation agreements in place, India will hold back, Pakistan hates India worse than it hates the devil and Pakistan is willing to risk a large-scale national conflict if India chooses to hot pursue militants into Pakistan.

Any Indian incursion into Pakistan, and Pakistan may escalate the conflict into a nuclear confrontation, without any regard for Indian’s need to pursue terrorists and militants.

Due to past wars, Pakistani EGO is so battered and smashed, it is more important for Pakistan to maintain the staunch perception of its sovereignty in the face of India, rather than pursue militants for the common good of the two countries.

If the U.S. potentially sees the Pakistani Kashmiri militants as a threat to the west, now that opens up an entirely different scenario, especially in light of the drones.

I wonder how Pakistan would perceive it, if the U.S. were to launch drone strikes from India, using Indian territory to launch such attacks. Technically, speaking, it is the USA doing the attack, not India.

If the Pakistani Army can support militants to do unrest in Kashmir, why can India not do the same and let U.S. drones take out Pakistan occcupied Kashmir terrorist training camps? Why any double standard?

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

We actually need to carry out the threat, we made to Pakistan in 2001: BOMB IT BACK TO THE STONE AGE!!!

Posted by Gaandu Pakistan | Report as abusive
 

pakistan is an untrustworthy & unreliable “ally”, plain & simple. they take our money & support the people who want to kill us. i agree with dennis blair. enough with the carrots for pakistan, let’s show this hostile “ally” some sticks.

Posted by Sexy Infidel | Report as abusive
 

Reading some of our American friends’ comments I feel like laughing. Equally laughable is Dennis Blair’s less carrot and more stick approach. Does any of these realise that people living in stone age were far more barbaric and uncivilized than today’s humans. You bomb Pakistan to stone age and turn the left over population extremely hostile and dangerous. Even if u destroy Pak nukes don’t forget there is Iran, China, North Korea ever ready to supply fresh nukes to Pakistan. Imagine stone age barbarism with nukes. What would US do then, bomb China to stone age?? Simply ridiculous thought.

This whole blog shows the ignorant nature of US people. Wake Up Guys!!!!

I guess shrewd diplomatic solution that I suggested above is somewhat feasible. That is push Afghanistan into perpetual civil war and make pashtuns busy fighting among themselves and keep diplomatic pressure mounting on Pakistan. But yes US will have to allocate quite a lot of money from its budget towards Afghan war in name of security. Kind of cold war with US and Northern Alliance on one side and Taliban and party on other side. And US forces do not directly intervene but just provide weaponry and training to its Pashtun allies.

Posted by 007XXX | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan is a 180 million strong Muslim nation equipped with nuclear weapons. Any outside nation which thrusts war upon Pakistan and threatens Pakistan’s existence. In such a scenario where Pakistan’s soveirgnity is challenged, I can be absolutely sure it will result a retaliatory nuclear strike by Pakistan.
Pakistan should not be mistaken as Iraq or Afghanistan, for decades Pakistan had clandestinely worked to acquire nuclear weapons. Its too late, Pakistan is way stronger and capable to thwart external aggression.

Good luck war mongerers! Nuclear weapons ultimate guarantors of peace. Welcome to the Pakistan quagmire, save your a*s and leave, it is a better option.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Derick Wall:
” In such a situation, the only option left is to attack Pakistan ”

-With the world 7th largest Army equipped with nuclear weapons, an attack on Pakistan is a very bad option.
While Iraq had suspected WMD (weapons of mass destruction), Pakistan on the contrary have confirmed WUD (Weapons of ultimate destruction). You can still try your luck.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan is facing their own music, they advocated and encouraged Terrorist in India/Afghanistan and now its backfiring. Pakistan Govt. should focus on the welfare of the country especially on education, job creation, infrastructure instead of wasting precious resources on Army and Kashmir.

 

What a travesty of facts and audacity to talk of another country being a dangerous country. The dangerous is that country where in the Prime Minister is killed by the security guard of the Prime Minister. If it is not a dangerous country in regard to the reliability of the people then how can be Pakistan be dangerous country. Is it because it could not kill its political head of the government surreptitiously like that done in India.. What a combination of treacherous humankind are the Indians.

May be the world is not aware that India is the worst Genocide Committal country. They being citizen do not know that for decades a genocide case is hanging in Indian Supreme Court. Should have been more ashamed to pronounce a single word against another country because of the fact that country had nothing to hide about that is why it is fighting against the Taliban terrorists along with the US and NATO force.

India should also be care before pointing finger on other sovereign states with malicious propaganda and intent as it is itself is a homegrown terrorist’s country. Can India deny the fact that all the states in the east including the seven sister states, west Bengal until, In the east Punjab (SIKHS) and in the south the Tamils all wanted/wants to secede, why? Answer my friends. Is it because of Pakistan’s instigation or Hindu elites and politicians coercive misrule as it is done in Kashmir.

Does the world know how many Muslims have been killed like birds and no Inquiry was allowed to be conducted by India to the Human Rights activists not even inquired by the then governments. If that would have been done then dozens of genocide cases would be hanging in India’s Neck. What about the killing of recent days that also is let off from holding Inquiry.. It was crime against humanity. Why the Human Rights is not submitting any report because of what? find out. The UN Secretary General had to beg Indian government to stop killing innocent protesters.

One day India will have to reply for all the misdeeds. In Mumbai riot, Muslim were killing because of political sponsored killing no punitive measures had been taken though it was crime against humanity. Just because people of the west we are least bothered much about what is happening around us do not mean all of us are clueless and one eyed jack.

Coming to point after the facts narrated above which country seem to extremely dangerous India or Pakistan? However, I would spare commenting on the writer of the article.

Posted by KINGFISHER | Report as abusive
 

Devils have come to drag Pakistan into war or trying to bring war, after killing of millions in Vietname, Iraq and Afghanistan due to their greed and to acheive their dirty imperialistic goals. People are so blind and stupid, they even sold their soul to devil and turned their cheerleaders(cheerleaders normally reffered to good looking and sexy girls but here i refer to ugly faces demons) cant grasp the ultimate result. Btw cheerleading considered an ultimate sport, so let them enjoy it as much as they can before the result turned them wrinkled scary ghosts.

Posted by Khan | Report as abusive
 

Today, we must genuinely be concerned about the terrorism and the misuse of media for purely political propaganda which is causing great unrest and enimosity among the people of the globalised world.
.Terrorism is being instigated by the States first(USA has now the lead after the fall of communist Soviet Union) official foreign policies and their military adventure outside their borders.
.Every sixth person in the world is an Indian who, because of their over population, the major gap between the rich and poor, and internal strifes on account of ethnic divide, but very vibrant political thinking, do not hesitate to pour out their venom at their neighbour Pakistan on a regular basis. Though we should recognise that centuries of muslims rule in their land followed by the British colonisation, the fabric of their society is very thin and has been broken down on several occasions resulting in their regular use of military in suppression of their citizens.
Apart from other concerns including climate change, the actions of rogue capitalists,both of these phenomina are going to get worst unless the UNO is reformed so that the world does come to some order. We have the examples of China, Japan, the European Region, Brazil and Russia, to mention major players,who are developing a bond among their people and to create a society based on humanity.
The UNO must be reformed to bring the so called two major democracies of the world to order for human rights.
The rest is nothing more than the diversion. Like the old German Chancellor recently said about the skirmishes in Afghanistn. From Mongols to brits and Russians, no one has been able to defeat them, and it is about time to negotiate, but with whom, and withdraw. In his view the only intelligent invader in the history was the Alexander the great, who entered Afghanistan and left to wards India. Was he proposing that the Americans and the NATO should leave and move towards India and Kashmir? I am not sure?
The most realistic course would be to empower the UNO general Assy. to act against the rogue states, without exception and disregard the veto rights of some countries.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

As a nation Pakistan is soon going to break into several pieces if the people do not wake up. No country in the world had sustained this kind of an abuse to there own people buy there own government and military. There are many examples like the USSR, Germany, and Korea etc. All the angry reaction from the Pakistani people for the US and towards India are made up by there political and military establishments to make it legitimate. But it’s not the fault of neither the US nor India or another that matter. Pakistani people should realize that and rise up to there government and military and demand a peaceful Pakistan for there future and for there children’s. An eye for an eye will make everyone blind.

Posted by Billy | Report as abusive
 

@Billy
you named the two, i named them as well. the solutions are different. the soviet Union went to sleep without a noise and the USA and India are going to sleep like babies in year 2010. The 2011 would show us the dawn, when china would become the most liked power in the world and who knows perhaps a chinese american would eventually be the next President of the USA.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

The source of most conflicts in this world are from the Abrahamic world. Christians, Jews and Muslims cannot get along, because each one of them feel they have cornered God’s love. Each one think that God loves them more.

That is the problem. How many global wars have we seen started by zoroasters, hindus, zen, shinto, and buddhists?

With regards to Billy’s statement above, an “an eye for an eye makes everyone blind”…..that is so true and I believe that was a statement by Gandhi or some other hindu pacifist.

Most wars in this world stem from the political ideological differences in how each of the three abrahamics perceive their self-importance with relation to God. That is the root cause of most global conflict.

Most Religious centers from the starting of time, until today are spineless, and godless as ever, failing to stop people from butchering and fighting.

The world needs to abandon its current perception of religion and the politics of it and embrace a further universal code of moral conduct, outside of religion, only then can different peoples co-exist in the same space, without killing each other.

For a start, there needs to be a greater leadership at the UN level to impart democracy, human rights, education, capitalism and political correctness.

There is a subtle, nevertheless powerful, all-pervasive evil creed preventing humanity from waking up and realizing its full potential. The reason I say this, is because we just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again, like a child with no memory or attention span.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

Every country has a bad memory of there past war. It is not important how you remember it but how you forget it and move on. USA atomic boomed Japan and ended the world war but now USA and Japan are one of the closest ally’s and Japan went on to become the second largest economy in the world. During the cold war USSR supported Cuba and North Korea once USSR broke; look at those countries’s they are virtually alienated from rest of the world and labeled rough states. Just because a powerful nation is backing or showing support not necessarily mean’s they are your blank cheque friends and support every action you take. No country can say they have the power to rule this world neither USA nor China everyone has to live together. History has thought us many lesson’s its high time we remember them and learn from our past mistakes and try not to repeat them.

Posted by Billy | Report as abusive
 

US should leave the ‘ dirty-filthy-uncivilized-stone age’ areas alone instead of killing and getting killed. Live in peace and leave the rest to their fate. No one invited you, a cruel state planted in there will have to come to terms and realize its mistakes and quit. The monarchs and oligarchs of the region will meet their doom. Why waste your sleep, enjoy TV, Baseball, Basketball, Miss Beauty contests, Miss Swimsuit shows, wet your kissers with a six pack and stuff your appetite with a triple decker, a 32 oz T Bone, that’s life instead of the dry rickety lands where the birds don’t fly. Just keep on sending the Drones loaded with Hellfire missiles.

Posted by Zaheer Uddin | Report as abusive
 

I must say its amazing how much of our educated academics are so narrow minded and ignorant of the truth. All hail the USA who trained Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussain and others! Only for there own interests! Then they stage 911 which is pretty much been proven on countless times but what do u say to those who see something proved time and time again yet stil dont believe it im not sure if its blind or stupid! So going bk to PAKISTAN yes i agree its corrupt and requires work but who has put the world into this unstable and fearful focus THE USA. By providing Israel with amunition to kill Palestinians what do u think ur solving the problem? Israel is performing blatant human rights violations and the world can sit back and watch!!! The is not a war against extremism it is a war against ISLAM and unless this stance is changed then i fear for all MUSLIMS as we will be suffering more than the PALESTINIANS.

Posted by Kaz | Report as abusive
 

Kaz: “they stage 911 which is pretty much been proven on countless times”

I think it’s safe to say that whatever cave country you come from, the definition of the word “proven” is quite different from what it is, in the dictionary. Stupid stanis!!!

Posted by Pauly | Report as abusive
 

We could never win the war against terrorism simply because they used the same incorrect strategies. First of all, we should associate any religion with terrorists, especially Islam. Even most of the terrorist CLAIMED to be muslims in fact they are not. They are muslims by birth only and not by practise.

Just like Christian, Muslims are divided into several groups, about 72 groups. Out of these only 1 groups really practice the true teachings of Islam. For example, in Pakistan, there are several groups of Muslims and all are very aggressive except this one group. The same in Indonesia, Afghanistan and the rest of the Muslim countries.

I have studied a number of religions for 20 years now, and all the religions that i studied advocate to treasure all live except for one religion which only thinks that their religion and race is superior to Christians, Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, and any other.

If we want to win the war we have to understand them and find out the main weaknesses, because their are only interested in POWER AND WEALTH and use Islam ideology to gain followers. In other words, the followers are either idiots or blindmen.

Stop using the 911 events as an excuse to blame Islam. I dont think it has anything to do with Islam. The reason is simply because on that day I found something peculiar happened. A friend of mine, Yoel but we called him Joel, called me at about 8 am telling me not to go to the office. He further told me they? all were not coming and that they were told something bad was going to happen. If it weren’t for him I would be dead. Later on I found out that they refers to their religious friend. But who told them? And how did they it was going to happen? He declined to say anything.

Anyway, fighting fire with fire with them will not work. It will only make them angry and strengthened their bond among them and used that as an excuse to retaliate. Wont you if your friends, family members, or relatives were killed. Of course we would, the 911 proved that. In fact I was outrage and blamed Muslims for the tragedy.

So if we want to eradicate the terrorist we need to understand them, just like a Chinese proverb “Know your enemy and win a 1000 battles”. So far we dont really know the enemy. The intel gathered by CIA were not really accurate and obtained from wrong sources.

The clue is POWER AND WEALTH, and they will fall.

Posted by Andrew | Report as abusive
 

@Andrew
“The clue is POWER AND WEALTH, and they will fall.”

That has been the clue since Adam and Eve times but human beings have failed continuously to learn from past. What people do is kill in name of religion without realising what religion actually preaches. And innocent people who are fools enough to blindly follow religion play right into the hands of corrupt politicians/leaders/terrorists whatever u call them; and these innocent people are therefore the biggest culprits and victims as well of this blind faith stupidity. And specially Muslims and Jews c every other thing in world from lens of religion and hence their distorted views of the world events. Blind faith is far far more dangerous than no faith at all.

As for USA it is all about OIL, all that is going on is great oil wars. USA created Laden and now Laden asks USA why USA drinks up all oil of middle east and recently it was Iran who questioned the same. USA drinks all oil and in return give dollar which effectively is just a piece of paper. U ask US to pay in gold and US economy will fall like peck of cards. And since USA has sensed this growing dissatisfaction among Oil producing middle east muslim countries so it created wars out of thin air, US could not find a single WMD in Iraq but it did find lots of Oil for itself. Lets c how far these oil wars go. I think the way out lies in researching for an alternative feasible source of energy. But that may take another few decades.

In my opinion the humanity is a way of nature to self destruct itself.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

The rant posted by Andrew on Oct 5th above is a clear cut obvious anti-semite rant. It should be deleted by moderators at once. Are they listening? Or is it now acceptable to post anti-semite rants on left leaning “liberal” news sites?

Posted by nvrfgetmumbai | Report as abusive
 

Whereas, US seems would surely fail in its foul play mission in turning Pakistan as the central battleground because the people of Pakistan dislike/hate such negative moves based on the soil of their (Pakistanis’) lovely motherland.

 

Not trio.

America is now making full proof id cards for everyone in Afghanistan.

America will first make id cards for people in hemland, then everyone Afghanistan.

what that does is stops a endless supply of Taliban men moving into Afghanistan. everyone will need a id card to be in each area.

every person seen in 24 hours, will be asked for there id cards.
24/7 show us your id card and scan there eyes as well.
all check points will check all id cards.
troops will over the next 1 year, go houses to house flooding in a extra 3,000 troops to do this over 1 month each area, asking to see everyone’s id card. the same group of troops will then do the next area and so on, unto they have checked every inch within that area / all areas.

now America will set up taps to kill off the Taliban that got id cards made.

the Taliban will attack the troops, they will not no what a trap is and what is not.

clearly there is not 500 drones to watch 1,000 roads, so you do it like this to kill them off.

only drive 35 MRAPs on 4 roads, then put a drone over them roads 24/7, waiting for them to take the bait.

you would even set a trap up with 1 MRAP that takes a road by its self, it will have a drone overhead, and that drone will look at them roads waiting for them too plant a IED bomb at night time or daytime.

first you show them 3 roads with good cover up to the roads, that 40 MRAPs drive on all day unto night time, then the Taliban men will try plant a IED bomb on that road / trap.

all bases and check points out deep in Afghanistan, will have a drone over head, or flying from 1 to the other non stop ready for a attack, that will kill the Taliban instantly.

troops that go out on walks will now have a drone over there heads, turning a Taliban ambush into a ambush on the Taliban.

America will use 3-4 drones and 2 helicopters to do this.

A drones will fly from 1 group to the next group 24/7, covering 5 groups of troops within 24 hours.
so 4 drones and 2 helicopters can cover almost 30 groups of troops going on 4 hour walks over 24 hours in each area.

Now the troops will let the Taliban spotters see them, and the drone will be flying at like 15,000 feet over head looking at what is up ahead / a Taliban ambush.

The drone can now see Taliban ambushes up ahead and can take them out.
ether way, the drone will ether see the ambush and take them out, or the troops will make contact and tell the drone where to drop the bombs within 20 seconds.
the drone can also tell the troops where people are standing, so it will never be a surprise attack. so sometimes the drone will not see if they have weapons on them, but can tell the troops where to point there weapons when the get near. the drone will kill them instantly / as soon as contact has happens.

there is 100ds of traps the troops can do, and this war fighting the Taliban is going to be over within 4 years. i don’t have time to say them all.

right now American troops are seeing and writing down what police or Afghan army men are killing the Taliban for fun. the troops and police that run them down with passion. them people will form the top police chiefs and top ten men under him, and army commanders.
you can see who you can trust and who really is fighting the Taliban with passion

in the end the Taliban will be killed off over 3 years tops, and a endless supply of Taliban men will be no more. full proof id cards.

it will be sending all troops to the border with 95% of drones.

there will be a new law that, the area / hills near the border are a no go zone. know one can be there.

drones will drop bombs on anyone they see with of without a gun. or if they see people with guns they will take them out.
people can only enter Afghanistan on listed roads that will have bomb proof check points that have sniffer dogs as well.
if anyone is seen trying to go side streets into Afghanistan, a helicopter will force them to stop at gun point.

all helicopters and drones will flood Pakistans border. mass bases will be build there as 95% of troops will build bases right on the border in patons, that drones will covers in-between each base.
all them bases will have heat and sound weapons, that will be left on 24/7. that will 100% stop a attack to over run the bases.

we can really stop the Taliban for good and hold the Taliban back from Afghanistan easy. Pakistan in return will loss all funding and can deal with the Taliban them self’s.

once all the solar panels go to troops in bases in Afghanistan, we will not need 97% of trucks shipping in fuel from Pakistan.
you not that 20 troops in 1 base will cost America on fuel cost something like 100,000 dollars a day. in a week it cost like 1 million $. $200,000 worth of solar panels would be more then is needed each base. $100,0000 worth of battery’s is more then is needed.
after 1 week, they pay off the solar panels and start to save mass billions of $.

in the end all them solar panels can be handed to the government and people in Afghanistan, that would make them have mass free power.
don’t forget Afghans only use 1 light and a kettle. they don’t have plasma’s or 6 amp computers.
America could cut the fuel budget buy 100% after 2 weeks, but should just keep buying mass solar panels for 1 year to flood a mass mass mass amount of power to the Afghanistan people.
if they did this 3 years ago and just keep spending the same amount on solar panels to what they spend on fuel, at least 75% of Afghanistan would be all green.

Posted by Scott r | Report as abusive
 

@scott
you forgot to mention the Space hip the USA is going to position above Afghanistan, with commander kirk, spoc and scotty to supply and evacuate the soldier when necessary. Right now one hears about the bone fire on pakistan Roads. Are the solar panels are replacing the conventional petrol now. And what about the replacement for the seriously ill commander on the ground? Are there plans to bring in an afro american? Mr Obama team is deserting him, no wonder the rats ususualy try to leave the sinking ship. Your Ballad is encouraging.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

Rex Minor,

You continue to show off your ignorance, and seem to ake pride in it. You revel in a few centuries of Muslim domination of India. Do you know how old Indian civilization is? It has survived more thousands of years than your mere centuries of Muslim domination. You call that a shallow culture, or that the fabric of its society has broken down. Wishful thinking.

Write a joke book, it will be a best seller. Arrogance is normally born out of abysmal ignorance – how true.

And waffle all you want guys, the fact remains that Pakistan is a nation that uses violence and intrigue as an instrument of State policy. Ask Mush and save your rants. That is what this discussion is about. Not how India is the big bad wolf.

Posted by Dara | Report as abusive
 

@Dara
in my view India and Pakistan are the two sides of the same coin. The Pakistan population awas lucky to have the experience of enlightenment with Islam, while most of the Indian people made a very little progress in their so called culture made of caste system with lack of regards for the human dignity. The prophets of God brought several commandments from the all mighty God and thus became the three Ibrahim religions namely Judaism, christinity and islam. and during all this period most of the Indian population stuck to their worship of idols. Sir, if Indians want to hang on to their past it is their business, but they need to learn to be civil first before using the word civilisation! Your subject related comments would always be welcomed, though different than mine.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

“So called culture.” Sir you confirm my opinion expressed earlier – ignorance.

has it struck you that Hinduism has been around for thousands of years before the advent of Christianity and Islam. That does not make Islam or Christianity any less. But it also says a lot about Hinduism. It still flourishes and grows. So too with Indian culture. Please don’t talk of caste. You have as much distinction and groupism in islam as others. Ask the Qadianis, Ahmediyas, and Sufis.

To get back to my point. All this is just to get away from the main point. A red herring and strawman. Even with all that Pakistan has gained from enlightened Islamic culture, it still remains the hot bed of fanaticism, terrorism, violence and treachery. To remain in denial, my dear sir, is your absolute right.

Posted by Dara | Report as abusive
 

Lets hope Afghanistan prove a catalyst for an alternative energy revolution. Its enough of dying for this damn oil thing. We hope all our world turn green and no need arise for hovering of these godly drones, choppers, warplanes etc to slaughter people.Just wonder if human being succeeding in replacing this energy, then will we still need these war machines ?? If no, then how the trade of billions dollar of these deadly weapons will run? I think there will again be several ways and excuses be created to continue conflicts and to shed blood. But lets hope this time human creativity move on positive side by replacing weapon industry with the industry for products of solar and renewable energy.

Posted by Khan | Report as abusive
 

@Rex Minor –you forgot to mention the Space hip the USA is going to position above Afghanistan, with commander kirk, spoc and scotty—
———————————————————
What tha ^.
There will be something position above Afghanistan,
HAARP High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program, that will push the atmosphere up, then back down, shaking all of Afghanistan, a very small bit, to let off all them very sensitive IED bombs. what a 000.1 earthquake that people will not even really notice.
hay, beam me up Rex

hang on rex, maybe they can use that on north Korea to take out all of there land mines.

maybe you should come up with a strategy like this.

north Korea can fire 15,000 artillery rounds at south Korea soul, before America could take out all artillery weapons.

maybe they should put up 25,000 cheap barrage balloons and blips all in the sky over soul, up to the border. that should stop all artillery rounds from hitting south Koreans soul.

then they should set all defence missiles to only target the north only carrying nuclear missile.well that missile goes 700km faster that all there other missiles, so the radar missile defence system, will only target missiles flying faster then 3,600km.
o yes, there missile have jamming devises and EMP too :):)

Posted by Scott r | Report as abusive
 

@Rex Minor –ou forgot to mention the Space hip the USA is going to position above Afghanistan, with commander kirk, spoc and scotty—

what tha
there will be something position above Afghanistan,
HAARP High Frequency Active Auroral Research Program, that will push the atmosphere up, then back down, shaking all of Afghanistan, a very small bit, to let off all them very sensitive IED bombs. what a 000.1 earthquake that people will not even really notice.
hay, beam me up Rex

Posted by Scott r | Report as abusive
 

@Dara
What Rex wants to say is that Islam is greatest and rest (especially hindus and jews) are Kaafirs. In one of the other blogs he responded to my commentary as saying that “777 is believer (in Islam) though he claims to be hindu”, so in his opinion it is ONLY Islam that can be any good and rest all are worst. He can NEVER GIVE respect to other religions. This kind of attitude is what eventually contributes to terrorism. So don’t take him seriously and just laugh. As a matter of fact I am thankful to him for giving me daily laughter dose with his stupid and foolish commentary. And thank God (Allah, if someone likes that way) India is not enlightened the same way as Pakistan where its always mullah, militant and mess. India officially declared caste system as illegal in 1950 and Pakistan officially declared hindus, sikhs, ahmediyas, etc, etc as there-to-be-butchered. Good India is still not enlightened.

@Khan
U r probably right that human kind will invent new excuses to create wars and keep this multi billion dollar trade of arms alive. As I said in end that human race is a self destructive mechanism of mother nature. But lets hope the world end in a greener and cleaner environment.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

Will USA and the NATO attack Pakistan in pursuit of Taliban, if the Pakistanis deny it? If so when? What will Pakistan do if they decide to attack? Will the government collapse and tune into another Afghanistan or they should allow the forces to Hot pursuit of Taliban?

What if another attack to India happens like the Mumbai attack, Will India attack Pakistan? Will the USA support the attack? If India attacks Pakistan will China attack India in support of Pakistan?

I think these are the present questions need to be keeping an eye on.

Posted by Jeff | Report as abusive
 

Just as I had predicted….

And there’s more fun yet to come.

Posted by Keithz | Report as abusive
 

@Dara
I had no intention to discuss religion with people who are not believers or practice a different faith.you keep your religion and let me keep mine, these are the words of the prophet of Islam and not mine. Those muslims who regard themselves as some kind of a superior human is nuts or regard debases others religion has gone crackers.
We should at least try to meet at a little upgraded human and an intellectual level. Hinduism has been there for thousand of years and there is no denial of the history, but not the civilisation of people in Hndu land. Here is the disagreement,to worship man made statues and sending the woman for cremation with the dead husband is barbaric. The muslim invaders from the North did not come to enjoy the orchards of the himalayas, or to conquer the foreign land, but in reality came to destroy the power basis and temples of the people who had no knowledge of the God almighty similar to many tribes around the world. They did put a stop to many barbaric practices in Indai. The christian armies made inroads in africa and soth america. No muslim would consider jews or christians as non believers, for they all practice Ibrahim religion. Today you have a large population of muslims in India and Pakistan, most of them had non muslim ancestors. Even several Pashtoon tribes of today’s Pakistan and Afghanistan were originaly jews or mongols and of other origans, who came from the middle east and central asia and settled down mostly in the North.
Today we meet at the humanity level with human rights universally accepted, and Gods commandments imbedded in most constitutions of the western world. The USA stands alone in sending their citizens to gallows, despite the fact that “though shall not kill” commandment of God is what their religion tells them. No one has the right to glorify their religion, I certainly do not, or consider others as kaaffirs, I even gave a status to 777 of a muslim, not out of disrespect but respect for his teachings despite his announcement of being of hindu faith. Many visiting German Doctors to Afghanistan are addressed by the pashtoos as muslims, not out of disrespect but the belief that the guy must be a muslim on account of their compassion for sufferings of Pashtoons. let us talk about the present and let past stay shut in the archivs.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

“America takes the war deeper into Pakistan”

Anybody who’s been paying attention (including many on this blog) could predict quite some time back that this would eventually happen. It was apparent from the begining that Pakistan was unwilling & incapable of taking on the various terror outfits on it’s soil & after getting frustrated, the US/NATO would have to take matters in their own hands. The next step (which has already started as well) is conventional arial bombardment targeting the terrorists hiding in Pakistan. There’s no stopping now.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

777,
I dont take him at all seriously, he is trying to impress, just want to get it across that it isn’t succeeding. :)

Posted by Dara | Report as abusive
 

Another tanker carvan of NATO is burned. Tensions and heat are rising between Pakistan and NATO. What’s next? Will US put its threat of retribution to action? This fight will get more and more dirty for everyone involved.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

Mr Minor,

“Hinduism has been there for thousand of years and there is no denial of the history, but not the civilisation of people in Hndu land. Here is the disagreement,to worship man made statues and sending the woman for cremation with the dead husband is barbaric. ”

Firstly, when you discuss idol worship, sati etc you expect me to believe you are not discussing a religion? “I had no intention to discuss religion with people who are not believers or practice a different faith.you keep your religion and let me keep mine, these are the words of the prophet of Islam and not mine.” So what are you discussing if not another religion?

People in Hindu land? Well Im a people of Hinduland, but not a Hindu. In this land there are Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Christians, Jews….you name it we have it. So, when discussing people of Hundu land, are you discussing only those who are not exposed to or have been, as you said earlier, enlightened by Islam? Don’t forget the people who are now in Pakistan were once part of Hindu land and much before Islam arrived on the scene. Anyway its pointless, you’ll probably go off again at a tangent and look for wiggle. Im just saying this to respond, hopefully for the last time, to what I feel is baseless, ignorant and contradicting allegation.

My upbringing does not permit to mention barbaric practices that other faiths have also followed……. but they have been there and some still exists is all I will say. I could also take you on about true believers etc but its a waste of energy and time for me, for the simple reason that it matters not to me what others believe in as far as faith goes. Man needs faith and belief and they are all right. To me it is the person that matters and how he conducts his personal life that will decide what happens in the hereafter.

“We should at least try to meet at a little upgraded human and an intellectual level. ” Whats that supposed to mean? Which brings me back to what I started with yesterday. This is all waffle. The issue was side stepped.

Posted by Dara | Report as abusive
 

Mortal:
“There’s no stopping now.”

-Yes, there is no stopping now. Pakistan has choked the logistical lifeline of NATO troops, daily dozens of NATO fuel tankers are burnt down and convoys are under attack. Both Torkham and Chaman border crossings have been shut down and Pakistan Military will use its full leverage. Pakistan Air Force will jump into action to defend the aerial frontiers, already a former Army chief of staff has called the Air Force to shoot down anything crossing into Pakistan’s western airspace. Good Luck!

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

Gentlemen, Let us not get emotional, We are witnessing the last phase of the conflict in the Pashtoon land. It is the Pashtoons who are now calling the shots against the decorated general of jewish descent. Both the foreign and the Pakistan military are shying away from direct contact with the Pashtoon resistanceforce and have got used to aerial reconisence and assasination tactics used by Israel army. Poor sods,even in the Pakistan main land the resistance tide can no longer be stopped by the military or para military of the land. From Swat down to Karachi the land is now controlled by the Pashtoon resistance.The apology from the USA has come too late, the responsible USA strategy planners are now examining the strategy they used in disengagement from vietnam. Pakistan civilian and military chiefs are mustering their stregnth to protect the integrity of their country borders. The NATO spokesman has announced that the closure of the borders and the destruction of their supply armada has no impact on their performance in Afghanistn. Right he is, they have nothing to show their leaders about their performance.
Only one thing is extraordinary, every one appears to be concerned about the fate of the drivers. They are simply fools, even the drivers are Pashtoon. Non Pashtoons are in danger.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

Rex

You are right, US is backing Afghan government talks with Taliban, Pashtoons have certainly become a force to be reckoned with. Yesterday in Khber Pukhtoonkhwa in Nowshera and Quetta a total of above 40 NATO fuel tankers were set ablaze. US cannot pacify the Pahtoons,

here is an interesting piece from Eric Margolis:

Mission Creep in AfPak
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArtic leNew.asp?xfile=/data/opinion/2010/Octob er/opinion_October38.xml&section=opinion

They lost the war in Vietnam by expanding it to Laos and Cambodia. They will loose again by expanding the war to Pakistan.
Eventually US will have to compromise with the Pushtoons, it is 10 years but the resistence keep getting stronger. Afghan war is coming to an end.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

@Umair

So naive. They lost in Vietnam because the Chinese were in there and they weren’t willing to directly take them on. Last I checked, even the Chinese aren’t really interested in helping Pakistan save its hide from the US.

Pakistan is no superpower that the US is running scared to confront. They might not do it militarily. Why waste bullets when a few signatures on paper can bring Pakistan to its knees? Mark my words, Pakistan’s intransigence is signing it’s own death warrant.

By the way, they lost Vietnam and won the Cold War. That should tell you something about American and Western resilience.

Posted by Keithz | Report as abusive
 

Im amazed that we r skipping one big issue here. We amercians created these wicked people when we lied and attacked a innocent country which was not involved at all in 911 attacks. This created a mass movement around the world tonsee us as a state who is trying to attack Muslim countries. This gave crazy people the justification to recruit more people against USA.

So it was lies which ruined the world. Lies and lies after lies. We must stop doing this or this all will burn.

From Pakistan

Jami

Posted by Jami | Report as abusive
 

@Umair
Eric Margolis has a number of mis statements and has very limited knwledge to understand the so called Pashtoons, afghans and now with the lable of talabans. it is equally difficult for Pashtoons to understand their own stregnth and weakness. They are more than seventy million in number now and occupy roughly a terrain of more than 250,ooo sq miles between south asia and central asia and the iranian plateau. To imagine that Afghanistan could be split per their ethnic divide or Pakistan could be further destabilised to the advantage of the USA or India are nothing more than the delusionary strategies of the think tank neo liberal conservative elites as they call themselves and once in a while release their program to the world in a clandastine manner via the NY times, washington Post, CNN and lately Fox cable net work. The Pashtoons have always been a great asset for the Pakistan military, until the arrival of 5th columnist Musharaf.His unprofessional tactics, lies and irresponsible behaviour, and military skirmishes on the Indian in the border area made Pakistan an unreliable friend and foe. The over-stretch of non pushto speaking military of around 150,000 into the independant tribal belt was a bad decision, particularly when the so called ISI was known to have been previously engaged in the Pashtoon territory in building special forces with support from the CIA and other western Govts. The extended stay of the foreign troops in Afghanistan by redefining their mission was another cardinal mistake and exposed the credibility of the USA. On top of that in comes mr zardari who together with the new chief of staff tried to contain the Pashtoons influence in the main land and to accept the unmanned drone operation in the tribal belt against cash support from the USA. A very shabby deal to provide assistance to the USA under cover. How do the drones operate, certainly with the help of observers on ground who confirm the identity of the selected target.
The Pashtoons tribes have always been in a position and are still in a position to clean up the areas now inhabited by tajiks, the uzbeks and others should they loyalty for the country is in doubt as well as to bog down the regular military thereby exposing the impotence of the coventional force.
Mr Karzai is a Pashtoon and not a traitor, and sooner or later he would agree to the so called talibans demand and order the exit of foreigners from the land, by tactics or force.
It is not a win win drama as it progresses but fascinating to watch the history being written by the people.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

@Umair
“Afghan war is coming to an end”

No war can go on for ever and ever and Afghan war is no exception to the rule.

And I am surprised with the “Bomb the Pakistan to stone age” attitude of American bloggers. No one in this world today can bomb anyone else to stone age. It is not the resources it is the knowledge that matters. And even if super hypothetically Pakistan does go back to stone age then what if China still supplies it with nukes. Will America bomb China back to stone age?? Think of it and all you Americans will know how stupid you have been.

As for pashtoon land the US/NATO forces lack one major ingredient — CRUELTY. To deal with pashtoons one needs infinite cruelty by keeping aside all the human rights. Human rights are for humans and not barbarians like Taliban. Without the cruelty factor US/NATO are the weakest forces to have ever conflicted with pashtoons. And second missing thing is shrewd diplomacy. US has failed miserably when it comes to ‘Divide and Rule’ principle of conquering foreign lands. It is a well known fact that there are a very large number of pashtoon tribes in land and it is only a small few who are fighting US. US should have been able to make these tribes fight amongst each other and not with US. British have been historically much better in shrewd diplomacies than anyone else. And as for cruelty factor I believe it is Russia, China, Japan are top three in decreasing order of cruelty.

I sometimes think what if a bomb blast in Beijing gets traced back to Afghanistan. Will Pashtoons be able to withstand the Chinese ire. Lets hope better sense prevails and Pashtoons not attack China (or in Rex’s words, hope that pashtoons do not come out and destroy chinese power center) for their own sake.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

@”Pakistan has choked the logistical lifeline of NATO troops, daily dozens of NATO fuel tankers are burnt down and convoys are under attack….”
- Posted by Umair

Yet again, you are getting excited pre-maturely & jumping like a little kid, on this development (just like you did when your army was facilitating the talks between Karzai & Haqqani). Just wait n watch!

@”Afghan war is coming to an end”

Maybe. But the war in Pakistan is just getting started!

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

@Umair, Keithz, Mortal1, RexMinor, Singh, others,

The unfortunate attack on the poor Pakistani soldiers was a horrible mistake and mistakes happen when quick decision have to be made.

However, pakistan’s response to this has been unreciprocal and Pakistan has escalated the situation to an entirely different level by blockading the NATO supply route.

With the Afghan mission at an impasse, the western alliance is not shaken in its ultimate goal to bring removal of AQ and militants from the region. I predicated almost a year ago, that the real war is not in Afghanistan, but Pakistan.

Pakistan has elevated their importance as a target for NATO, now for several years, by helping Afghan Taliban, Harbouring them, and undermining a centralized pasho authority and this has hindered Hamid Karzai’s ability to build a central authority and consensus.

Pakistan’s hands are dirty with blood and the brown stuff, upto their neck. It is not unplausible that the Af-Pak war theatre will expand into Pakistan, in fact over time, deep into heartland Pakistan, even ,as new militant sancturies get created to counter the initial onset of attacks against hideouts in Pakistan, the U.S. will have to deal with new militant camps and cells as they go viral and out of control.

This was the worst case situation that nobody wanted. Everybody wanted Pakistan to do its job, it got the cash and let the Afghan mission succeed. But now, Pakistan has pushed NATO to the brink. NATO is not just going to walk away from a bunch of small time rookie jokers in Uniform with small teeth.

NATO will up the ante and make a very large style statement in the coming future. The pakistan border may not have as much relevance anymore in the fight against Militants.

In fact, the Bush era had a huge retribution plan in case of Afghan mission failure: a heavy, punishing large scale, sustained barage of surgical attacks on militant camps within Pakistan.

History has shown that this will escalate into a much larger conflict in Pakistan and as militants go viral in Pakistan, NATO may further increase the intensity of its campaign to compensate for this and I also for see Kashmir becoming a target, as new militant camps form there in response to the potentially forthcoming NATO retribution campaign or incursions.

NATO and the U.S. had better either buy the nxkes backdoor or dedicate a potent attack team to seize the nxkes there, in case somebody loses their head and decides on a misadventure.

Time will show that the PA gambled and lost. The gambling table is owned by a superpower. Pakistan could have gambled if they had a superpower at their side to counter NATO here, but that is not the case. PA gambled and it will bring NATO into Pakistan. The double dealing will come to an end and the dealing will be done by NATO.

After extorting billions of USD, hopefully Pakistan cools down and opens the supply route and increases its co-operation on the Afghan war effort, quits interfering in the centralization of pashto power in karzai’s government and hands over the Afghan Taliban.

The Pakistani’s should not be under any false notions here, if the Afghan war is coming to an end, the western alliance will continue the mission to completion in other manners, by extending the war theatre deep into Pakistan itself.

Barack Obama will re-define the mission, depending on how the PA responds. If the PA works with the U.S., the Af-Pak mission may come to end quickly, but if the PA resists and provides counterproductive effort, the mission will take on a new “meaning”, something nobody wants now, or even ever contemplated.

It is still not to late to reverse course and do the right thing and prevent further war and loss of life. All sides should embrace peace and embrace removal of militant sanctuaries that continually threaten civilians in the west.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

War should always be the last resort. The safety and security of the entire region depends on whether Pakistan has pushed NATO to this last resort.

I hope to GOD almighty that IS NOT case. There has been too much innocent life lost in Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan already, all starting with 911.

Wars are horrible and the people of Pakistan have suffered greatly. Yes, Pakistani’s are resilient, but all humans have a limit on the amount of suffering they can take. If people have nothing to lose anymore, they will take their anger out on the state itself and each other.

Hopefully the elites of Pakistan think of the welfare of their people first, before they continue selfish geo-political double dealing games with the west.

The west’s goals are to prevent another 911 and as long as it feels that has not been addressed, NATO will not leave.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

Keith:
“Pakistan is no superpower that the US is running scared to confront. They might not do it militarily. Why waste bullets when a few signatures on paper can bring Pakistan to its knees? Mark my words, Pakistan’s intransigence is signing it’s own death warrant.

By the way, they lost Vietnam and won the Cold War. That should tell you something about American and Western resilience.”

-Keith, it is so ironic your memory is too short. In your words you sided always with the under dogs. In Cold wars we were partners, together we defeated a common enemy which was cruel and occupied Afghanistan. No doubt it wouldn’t have been possible with CIA operation Cyclone and Carter and Reagen admininstration’s support. But it was the heroic Afghan Mujahideen resistence and Pakistan’s covert support that made it possible.
We are still not your enemy, you just need to accept in 1990s a loss of interest in Afghanistan resulted in Civil war there and consequences for everyone. Rest is history.

And certainly Pakistan may not be a super power, but somehow we have mustered enough power and courage to confront, take a stand and shut NATO supplies for over a week now. Despite apologies from NATO secretary General, US Ambassador to Islamabad, Gen. Petraus the ISAF Commander Pakistan still needs action to be taken against Pilots and crew who opened fire on our soldiers. Until then Supply routes will be shut, certainly Pakistan has some power.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

@”We are still not your enemy, you just need to accept in 1990s a loss of interest in Afghanistan resulted in Civil war there and consequences for everyone”
- Posted by Umair

You sheild the people who want to kill us, every chance they can get. You proliferate nuclear technology to countries which are hostile towards us. Are these supposed to be actions of friends? I agree that we have a common enemy but the problem is that your establsihment does not see it that way. Yes, on the outside you may say so, as lip service but in actuality, you are not willing to take on that common enemy & in fact you are sheilding them by not allowing us to eliminate them either. As I’ve said repeatedly, nobody is interested in invading your country. You don’t have anything that anybody wants, so don’t flatter yourself. Al we want to do is, eliminate the elements which are a threat to us. So either you join the fight against this “common enemy” or stay on the sidelines & let us finish the job.

@”but somehow we have mustered enough power and courage to confront, take a stand and shut NATO supplies for over a week now.”

If I were you, I wouldn’t get too carried away over that. All that “courage & power” that you seem to have mustered, will fade away rather quickly, once a “stop payment” is made on your aid & loan checks.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

Some more “friendly” actions by Pakistan:

“ISI urging Taliban to fight US” – WSJ

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424 052748704689804575536241251361592.html?m od=WSJ_World_LeadStory

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

@Gentlemen
Let us have some patience. The ball is in the court of the Americans who are running around as headless chickens, some are deserting the white house, others trying to find some sort of advice for Obama to save his face. I wonder where Henry is, the advisor to the several presidents on foreign affairs? Last time, he said that the USA should not have accepted the creation of Pakistan as an independent country? Perhaps another threat to Pakistan establishment reminding them of the stone age. Musharaf did not realize that his country is mostly made up of desert and mountains, but it worked and so started his double game with George, the decision maker but the most incompetent of all Presidents. Poor zardari they first got him into a hot seat to give up all powers and now they want from him to do something about the so called talibans. The NATO countries are equally fed up with the yankees drama, the exception being the Prime Minister of the UK and the Dane secretary General of NATO, who got elected after the Turks caved in under pressure from the USA President.
On top of this the saudis are getting very impatient and so are the chinese for further financing for the USA adventures. Perhaps, the USA aught to sell or lease one of their aircraft carriers to improve liquidity? mr Bin Laden or his duplicate(the guy is dead for several years now)call for solidarity with Pakistan poor is also under process by the saudis and the gulf countries. Soon the Saudis would be going to Obamas ranch, o’k the white house to rearrange the payment terms.
@Mr Kaz, your october 5 observation is very interesting. perhaps, we are going to witness the clash of civilisations in the new milinium. There are a number of disturbing developments in various countries organised and instigated by the Zionist media and the right wing radical and extremist political parties( I use deliberately the word ‘Zionist’ and not the jewish people) to link almost daily unpopular local events with Islam. The absence of laws aginst blasphemy and the slogan of “free Speach” in these countries have brought about discussions in the communities but not a stop in their activities. This is nothing new and reminds us of the previous campaign of the crusaders against the so called muslim Barbarians. The crusaders the received financial support from their rich jewish merchants. Perhaps, after all this is not a very negative development for the citizens of europe would sooner or later going to accept the positive influence of Islam on their culture and traditions, which they consider today being the mix of jewish and christian influence. The arabian intrusion into Spain and franco land is forgotten, so is the rule of Ottamans in hungry and beyond. They only remember the expulsion of muslims and jews from spain and departure of the muslim armada from the gates of Austrian capital.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

From attached link above, wall street journal:

“The Taliban commander in Kunar, like others interviewed in recent days, said he remained opposed to the presence of foreign troops in Afghanistan and had no plans to stop fighting them. But “the ISI wants us to kill everyone—policemen, soldiers, engineers, teachers, civilians—just to intimidate people,” the commander said.

He said he refused, and that the ISI had tried to arrest him. “Afghans are all brothers; tomorrow we could be sitting together in one room.”

–>I am baffled. Pakistan wants to maintain sovereignty, yet fails to, or has no the will to take on militants and lets so-called “rogue” ISI or “unofficial” ISI operate in Afghanistan in this manner and in the same breath claim to be fighting the war on terror, when the Pakistani’s are in fact, aiding and abetting terror, based on this report, if its true.

What do pakistani’s expect the west to do? Just sit down and take and let Pakistani agencies undermine the afghan mission? I am curious, if the shoe was one the other foot, what would Pakistani’s expect NATO to do with an ally like Pakistan?

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

@Jeff
Your oct. 6 post. Nato countries are not authorised to take any hostile action in Afghanistan or pakistan. we would probably discover that the so called Nato helicopter was of the American origin,and therefore the Americans were involved and also apologised. The anglo saxons are the exception, the Brits would do what the Americans do. Not to forget the NATO commander in Afghanistan is also the american. Inspite of 150,000 troops on the border, Pakistan military is not in contact with the Pashtoons nor are the soldiers of the USA and Nato have any stomach to confront the Pashtoons on the other side. The Israeli army tactics of identifying and assasinating individual personalities are being knocked out while mr Karzai finds a solution to avoid the full scale return of the so calllec Taliban Govt. Since this could result in a blood bath of those afghan leaders who cooperated with the USA. The alternative is that the USA grant assylum to their friends on a large scale.
The intrusion of kashmiri resistance into India from Pakistan by land and sea is very unlikely, so is the intrusion of the Indian military into Pakistan,in my opinion is not thinkable since the reports indicate that both armies first choice for defence is the nuclear strike. It is a useless exercise to estimater the consequences for these countries and beyond.
Rex Minor
PS this blog is becoming very liberal now and I hope there are no more snotty comments from the hot blood indians.I am only an observer and reserve the right to differ from many of you.

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

@”I am baffled. Pakistan wants to maintain sovereignty, yet fails to, or has no the will to take on militants and lets so-called “rogue” ISI or “unofficial” ISI operate in Afghanistan in this manner and in the same breath claim to be fighting the war on terror, when the Pakistani’s are in fact, aiding and abetting terror, based on this report, if its true”
- Posted by G-W

The ambivilance of Pakistan as a nation, can be personified by our friend Umair here. He talks about terrorism being a “common enemy” of all but in reality, he just considers those terrorists as enemies, who are targetting the Pakistani state while secretely supporting those, who target the West, Afghanistan & India. I would bet that a vast majority of Pakistanis are like Umair. They start yelling about “sovereignity” when American drones & jets target the terrorists hiding in their caves BUT when those same terrorists run wild & bomb their people, they see no impingement of sovereignity at all. It’s like, it’s OK to be bombed by a fellow Muslim than being protected by an infidel.

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

Just a reminder that we will remove comments that are offensive in nature, or indeed block the whole debate if it goes off course. Let’s try and address our comments to the blogpost instead of flying off in different directions

 

I don’t think NATO will fight off with Pakistan; why risk human life when dollars can do the job. Pakistanis and Pashtoons all dance to tune of dollars. Earlier it was AQ and now it is US that is paying the highest price. So all this taking war deeper into Pakistan is all fake. And equally fake is PA general’s concern about the poor PA soldiers who died of misunderstanding. All that PA starred fools saw in whole episode was an opportunity to extract some extra money/bribe from US pockets. There is nothing more to it. Only sad thing is PA soldiers lost their lives out of sheer misunderstanding.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

@GW
Let us not completely ignore the reality on ground and talk over the people’s head. Both the Americans and the Pakistan army with their military of 150,000 odd have been avoiding to make contact with so called talibans, says the former ISI chief General Gul to AlJazeera!
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

Lets also not forget that Pakistanis are not willing to take on so called Taliban (Students of Islamic Knowledge Movement). And how can Pakistan take fight on its own muslim brothers. But NATO does not understand this. NATO thinks Pakistan takes bribe and should do the job. But Pakistan believes it will take bribes and not kill its pious taliban brothers. What if under Taliban rule the disease and death was paramount in afghanistan. So what if people crippled financially and living out of selling drugs or alms from UN. Living a life of dignity with one’s own hard earned money is nothing when compared to living under Taliban’s rule of Islam. So Pakistan wants Taliban to rule, even if that means giving up dignity and living on alms with massive unemployment, disease and death, so as to create the “holy” Islamic empire with “holy” Islamic bomb.

NATO has been very successfully fooled by Pakistan right from day 1. And current events are no different. All this drama of shutting supply routes will end as soon as US pays the right price.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

@Sanjeev Miglani

Sir, Thank you for reminding everyone to stick to the topic.

Please remove all religions comments from the blog.

Bill.

Posted by Billy | Report as abusive
 

Incentives and aid to Pakistan for acting against Afghan Taliban have failed. US has already shown that cooperation with Pakistan is not working and it’s time now to reverse tactics.

Playbook for US:
Get the hell out of Af-Pak immediately. This will allow US to apply extreme economic and political pressure on Pakistan. Post-floods, Pakistan is in no position to face down economic sanctions. A few hellfired talibs aren’t going to make a difference. A Pakistan fighting for economic survival will have no option but to act decisively.

However, I suspect that cold-war mentality will prevail and US will continue to see Pakistan as an ally.

Posted by trickey | Report as abusive
 

Picture this: US withdraws completely from Pakistan. And then starts the fun. Pakistan alms gets dried up completely, there is complete trade ban on Pakistan (similar to that imposed on India at time of Pokhran), Pakistan’s internal economy is already shattered because of floods, and to top it all stop all the oil shipments to Karachi….then only US will truly take war deep inside Pakistan. Pakistan will be left with no option but to succumb to financial injuries and then buy their nukes out. And not even Saudis or Iranians will come to their aid. That is when they will realise the cost of burning NATO oil tankers.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

Guys, please enlighten me, is it just me, or is Pakistani State agencies basically contracting out, almost “outsourcing” this dirty militant, terror work to: Kashmiri Militants, “Rogue ISI”, Afghan Taliban and Al-Qaeda?

It seems like Pak state agencies are doing this sort of dirty double dealing tactics to ensure plausible denial, so that they can keep asymmetrical warfare’s going on all fronts, against India, Afghanistan and NATO, so as to let the proxies and militant contractors(LeT, HuM, JeM, Afghan Taliban, etc) take it to the chin and they can always walk away with clean hands, at the end of the day.

I truly think many Pakistani’s are suffering from a mental psychological dissociative disorder. In one breath they can say all the right things like terrorism is bad and they want to fight it, but in the other breath, they continually stoke, foment, support, arm, train and mentor these same types of guys!??

It appears at times, that Pakistani’s are calculating, hardened cold blooded liars and actually so far dissociated from what they say in public, compared to what they actually do in reality on the ground, perhaps a bit of both.

I am left wide eyed and gasping at times, when I see some of things said here by Pakistani’s and the way they have selective morals and compartmentalize and justify certain godless types of acts.

What really makes me laugh though, is that they keep trying to manage perceptions, keep telling the same lies, excuses and they keep getting caught with their pants around their ankles. Despite the level of embarrassment, the depth of shame is bottomless. Aside from colourful metaphors to describe all this……it is undefinable…..

The question then is, do all roads lead to the top? If that is the case, then why is the west wasting its time attacking the outsource militant contractors? Should the west not deal directly with the guys at the top and finish this?

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

A gas pipe line project underway from Iran to Pakistan and then to China. Also a large number of chinese and Pakistani engineers and workers are engaged on Karakoram highway along with some secret tunnels for gas pipeline. Karakoram highway will be linked with Indus highway down to south, ultimately lead to strategic port of Gawadar. Once Afghanistan freed and governed by its people, will pave its way for huge trade with CAR’s through Gawadar.Dont forget these Republics are very rich in oil reservoirs my friends. I think its crude form will be refined in Gawadar through the refineries of billion dollars. OOOpps these are imaginations.. Lets finish the mess first which is started in Afhanistan then start think of fun… Ohh i went against the spirit of the topic… Miglaani saab naraz ho jaiga.. ok lets come to the topic… yes its 9th day of blockade of the NATO supply. Any related news guys..?

Posted by Khan | Report as abusive
 

Further to my last post, i don’t think war with Pakistan is a good answer, but neither is the status quo.

The west has to see beyond its own goals and realize that success in Af-Pak must be a part of the larger global vision in that prosperity,jobs,education, moderation and democracy must come to Af-Pak.

The Pashtos must be made to understand that the modern world does not have patience anymore for a decentralized Pashto authority in Afghanistan, the groups must unify, accept democracy and create a forward thinking vision for their people and fighting, looting and killing as a way of life, must come to an end, in this generation. The Pashtos must build integrity, peace with each other and a vision to join the modern world in thinking. Japanese Samurais and Ninjas, still exist, but they wear expensive suits these days and use cell phones as their swords. Why cannot Pashto’s create such a vision for themself?

Pakistan must be made to understand that it must stop hindering political progress in Karzai’s effort to centralize authority. There is no reason why Pashto’s cannot build consensus and tribal elders and leaders become the senators and statesmen of tomorrow.

Pakistan, India Afghanistan and the other s. asian neighbour nations must create an economic union to align common goals and work for the greater good. There is a strong potential, with India being the greatest source of it, that a unifed S. Asian continent can have the greatest manufacturing work for the world has ever seen.

In a generation or two, if capitalism and democracy can be embraced, even special forms of it, tailored to meet the social requirements of each nation, it can be potentially quite transformative and bring peace and prosperity and 20-40 years from now, Pakistanis, Pashto and Indians will be laughing during their coffee breaks at how backwards their ancestors were, butchering each other needlessly and prompting foreign nations to attack and occupy their lands.

The entire S. Asian region is too incoherent and lack of unity will be their undoing. The Chinese are going to blowpast the S. Asians and many of the S. Asians will continue to be stooges for other nations, while their people suffer from these horrible wars. People need to wake up and embrace a grander vision of their existence.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

@G-W
Your post of october 8 is very logicaly explained. Your vision very well explained is of the perfect world and like you said is achievable over generations.
The question one should be allowed to ask, where is the starting point.
Most countries of the world have invaded afghanistan and are now confronted by the Pashtoon warriors and their comrades including chechenians, arabs and others from the central asia. Their struggle is in the tenth year and during the past six months they have just managed to provide very limited space to the invaders to fight, other than with aerial weaponry. They are not samurais or ningas, you see them in modern clothing as US and Canadian citizens, even as diplomats and at home they have orchards and control most of the trade on thousands of kilometre highways, from karachi port to Kabul and central asia and from Baluchistan to Qandhar and beyond, they also control the Nukes of Pakestan and its rocketry. No sir they are not samurais, nor do they commit suicides, but one thing is their weakness or stregnth perhaps, they do not negotiate their independence. O’h by the way they are more than 70 million people of their own territory without any regular Govt. control. All what you have narrated is achievable but not by force.
Today we have the conflict of the so called modern forces versus the straight forward uncomplicated independent tribesmen. The rest of larifari about terrorism etc. is not the reality but a distraction from truth.
Good Luck any way.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

G-W,
“I truly think many Pakistani’s are suffering from a mental psychological dissociative disorder.”

Let’s not make it harder than it is. This is simply “manifest destiny” all over again, fueled by jihadi fervor.
The dual attitude to terrorism is understandable too. Intelligence agencies may be able to somewhat manage the ambiguity of supporting one form of terrorism but rejecting the other. But it is impossible for the common man to contextualize something as violent as a terror atta ck.
It’s either good or bad. Most Pakistanis believe that the jihad in Kashmir is a just cause. This creates a tolerance in Pakistani society for terrorism. Just say that you are fighting for Kashmir and you will be forgiven, even though you end up killing people in Mumbai and Karachi. Every terrorist in Pakistan hides behind the Kashmir facade.

Posted by trickey | Report as abusive
 

“A gas pipe line project underway from Iran to Pakistan and then to China.”
Purchasing gas at the current oil-linked prices from Iran will wipe out Pakistan economically. China is simply not foolish enough to buy natural gas at a price linked to that of oil. The long term price trend for natural gas is downwards and that for oil is north-bound. Natural gas supply is set to increase dramatically all over the world.

” Karakoram highway will be linked with Indus highway down to south, ultimately lead to strategic port of Gawadar.”
Last year, a lake spontaneously emerged over the existing highway. It’s going to take a couple of years to repair the existing highway. Not the best of plans to build anything strategic over disputed territory anyway.

“Once Afghanistan freed and governed by its people, will pave its way for huge trade with CAR’s through Gawadar.”
The largest trading partners for the CAR’s are likely to be China, Western Europe. Pakistan is not in the picture. Even if that is not the case and you assume a peaceful Afghanistan, then the Iranian port of Chabahar, is very very promising, since it is already connected to a highway in Afghanistan.

“Dont forget these Republics are very rich in oil reservoirs my friends. I think its crude form will be refined in Gawadar through the refineries of billion dollars.”
The largest importer China is next door to the oil rich republics. CARs will likely be connected to Western Europe via Russian gas pipelines. Only left overs will pass through either Gwadar or Chabahar.

Posted by trickey | Report as abusive
 

@Rex Minor,

While you advocate legitimization of the Taliban, I don’t think legitimizing and rewarding 7th century behavior is the answer either.

Those that move against unification, against consensus, against civility, against progress, against modernization, should be told bluntly and clearly that they are road blocks and road blocks have no place anymore in this world, if we are to achieve and build anything lasting.

The consensus at the highest level should be, that there should be peace, but how?…not by violent wars, but not by appeasing militants and sharia either. There has to be a better way, that allows people to choose their own destinies and pursue happiness, once they have redefined what would make them happy, in a modern world context.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

@Rex, Umair,

I got to hand to these pathans. If earth ever needed rugged, tough as nails fighters to take on aliens from outerspace, let’s put the Pathans in front. No aliens would ever think of invading our planet….

These guys got nothing to offer themselves or the world, except fighting.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

@Rex
“they also control the Nukes of Pakestan and its rocketry”

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
then why have ‘they’ (Taliban) not launched nukes yet and why are ‘they’ fighting for 10 years to NATO to get their independence? Please don’t reply if u do not have any logical answers.

Umair, u said nukes are integral and inherent to the sovereignty of pakistan and Rex says Pak nukes are controlled by those same terrorists that PA is fighting which effectively means that what Rex wants to say is that PA handed over Pakistan’s sovereignty to terrorists. Any comments?

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

@GW

Your racist comments lead you nowhere except exposing your rear and so called civility.

Posted by Khan | Report as abusive
 

@GW
My simple advice to you would be to think logically, study the history of Pashtoons, whose ancestors were no other than white huns, Rajputs, and buddhists, arabs, jews and what have you who then converted to Islam and became one the cohesive fighting force never defeated in their history. They offered a lot in the Indian subcontinent, fought the moghul kings to protect Sikh Nation etc. etc.This compares to the natives of the continent who hung on to the ancient practices of worship, strggling with the ancient caste system to divide but not unite. I leave it to your judgement now. The Pashtoons do not have any intention to offer any thing to the world, and equally do not want to be messed about by others in their own so called primitive environment, and yet with all this history there have been smart alecs who still believe and think what is better for these people, from Brits to Russians and now the entire western force headed by the gross setan is not leaving these people in peace. They are still prepared to test their mettle and trying to measure their sttregnth. India of all the countries in the world have always had better understanding of these people and have sent physicians to heal the sick and offered refguge and offered higher education for these people in their universites, and ther same facilities were offered by pakistan leaders trying to integrate these people into their domain. I find little recognition from the people of Indian background on this blog surprises me. What a shame. The role of Zardari has had no effect and their time is now up, the Pashtoons have taken over the affairs of the entire country on both sides of the border. What we are witnessing is just the beginning. The USA administration has to reorganise their security team and replace the current actors and this should be the question of the day and not to mesure the capability of the Pashtoons!
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

PS
correction, the roles pf Zardari and Kyani with their show with the Americans has had…….
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

Let us give more credibility to comments by Omair, Trickey and Khan. My respect to others who based theior comments simply on info they gather from the media, wall street, NY times and washington post etc. Info does not equal knowledge nor our commentry is any knowledge, but provides us the possibility to pause and engage our intellect with the subject, without pourin out emotions.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

Given the realities, Stark Choice for the Dovish Obama…
Either withdraw toute suite OR up the Ante..
1. Carpet Bomb the border 15km into Pakistan x 800 km from south of Kandahar to north of Kabul…NO sanctuaries
2. Cut a deal with the Baluchi rebels and carve out an alternate supply route thru Baluchistan to the port near the Iran border west of Karachi. That would serve notice on the (by Baluchis) hated ISI that we mean business..
3. cut off the flow of funds to the Taliban and ISI by reducing outsourcing of security services to contractors

As for India. They have had it. The equally dovish ManMohan Sngh that the Elite General Staff “dissed as cowardly” is bound to unleash their counterparts on the next strike they are surely deep into planning. The Musharraf admission, coupled with the Daoud Gilani (aka Headley) revelations has now openly confirmed to both USA and India of official State involvement in cross border terrorism. No room for doubt anymore. The Generals in Delhi are confidant they can take out the silos but will first start with some “training camps” near Muzzafarabad..

 

@Pravin
The marine General who provided the advice similar to yours has gone into disgrace and retirement. The next ontion on the card is the Professor Robert Gates, whose exit from his post is expected before the year end, provided some one is prepared to accept the job of disengaging the USA and not the carpet bombing.
In your proposal, the fact that the Pakistan Nukes were never developed as a deterrant but as the first strike weapons is also been ignored. There are few countries who possess this capability, not even the UK and France.Both the Indian intelligence and the CIA knows this, and let us not forget the Iranians Nukes, about which the smoke screen of the USA administration is in place, telling the world the larifari story of nuclear program, a tactic which the clintonians used under Bill Clinton about North Korea.
Pakistan military under Musharaf suffered its reputation by going into politics and taking over the management of civilian and the judicial order. In addition they took over the role of the para military in the border region.
No wonder that you believe now that the USA
and India are in a position to undertake uch missions. You should have a little more patience and wait for the honourable departure of the Zardari, Gillani, Kyani trio. The next leaders of Pakistan are not going to accept the current chaos and stranded NATO supplies nor are they going to undertake missions for the Americans and weaken their own security.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

@Pravin

Your solutions are not practical. Going through Baluchistan still means relying on Pakistan. Not only that, this route already runs. Canadians and Brits in the south get supplied through Chaman-Quetta, not Torkham.

The problem with the Southern route is that once you get to Kandahar, you then have to drive the supplies up the highway of hell to get to Kabul. As it stands, it’s less risky to go through Pakistan and cross at Torkham.

As for clamping down on the Taliban in the FATA, only the Pakistanis can really do it. And sooner or later the Americans will find the right pressure point to get the job done. Sadly for all concerned, they just don’t have enough leverage right now, with American troops next door. Just imagine American foreign policy if they have no troops in the region and don’t have to rely on Pakistan for anything.

As for India attacking Pakistan. Not going to happen. Even if there’s another Mumbai. India might use other methods…economic pressure on Pakistan, covert strikes by RAW, etc. Or they might even create tension on the border. That alone would do more damage to Pakistan than an actual war….forcing Pakistan to field its Army at an incredible cost for weeks at a time. For a country with mere weeks of fuel reserves, always short on currency reserves, not much industrial capacity, etc. this would be devastating. All are better strategies, that don’t risk nuclear war, but definitely would cause Pakistan significant pain.

Posted by Keith | Report as abusive
 

@Keithz,

Supposing for a second, this pressure you speak of, actually causes the Paks to become desperate and they do use a first strike of some kind, just suppose….is it plausible that the west immediately disengages in afghanistan and immediately engages Pakistan to remove wmd’s?

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

@G-W
In case of economic pressures what Pindi boyz will do is sell nuclear tech or even sell nukes. All that Pak military wants is to keep their high fi lifestyles going even at cost of Pakistan.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

All right Pakistan opens all NATO routes. http://in.reuters.com/article/idINIndia- 52079420101009

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

And if routes are reopened after just an apology or so called actions against pilots by US then I would say US has got off literally free. Of course it is unlikely. Can any of our American or Pakistani friends share any insight on amount of bribes involved for reopening the NATO supply routes.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

777
-Though supply routes have been reopened for NATO, this time around hundereds of NATO fuel tankers were set on fire and attacked across Pakistan. For almost 10 days the supplies were suspended, in Washington, Brussells and Islamabad intense negotiations took place and ISAF Commander, US Ambassador and NATO secretary general offered an apology to Pakistan.
Pakistan’s objective was to send a clear message, define the rules of engagement, remind NATO that it’s mandate ends at the Pak-Afghan border and it has no jurisdiction on Pakistani soil, also to US that its leverage is limited and Pakistan can rapidly increase the costs for the coalition if its interested are not considered and soveirngty is violated.
I do not think any bribes were involved, these are policy issues and challenges. Pakistan after having met the objectives above has decided to reopen the route. Since the border is closed on Sunday, so it would be uptill Monday that supply convoys would start moving into Afghanistan.
I do not think NATO will violate Pakistani border so casually again having got the message loud and clear.

Posted by Umair | Report as abusive
 

“In your proposal, the fact that the Pakistan Nukes were never developed as a deterrant but as the first strike weapons is also been ignored. ”
This is the one thing I do not understand about Pakistanis. When it comes to any issue, India is not to be trusted. But when Indians say they will not strike first, Pakistanis make it an article of faith.

Posted by trickey | Report as abusive
 

“Your racist comments lead you nowhere except exposing your rear and so called civility.
- Posted by Khan ”

–>Khan, what do you think about Shiites and Ahmadiyas and other minorities getting killed in Pakistan?….if you think me a racist, I hate think what you call Sunni’s who commit these crimes against Shiites and other minorities.

I admire Pashtoons for their toughness and fierceness of spirit, but there are many things lacking in that region, which make it a productive, cohesive, moderate and safe society.

Its the year 2010, the world is getting crowded all nations need to share with each other, take the best from each other, look at themselves and adopt things from each other, philosophies that improve the viability and advancement of the culture. IE…India has adopted much from the west..political structure, education, technology…In this regard, the Pashtoons are static….

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

@Umair,

I think you have it the other way around, I think Brussels has forced Islamabad to open the border, after they were told the consequences of a protracted closure of supply lines and what NATO would contemplate in the future. Don’t kid yourself.

I think NATO will do as they please, and always have, but will find better modes of communication with PA, so these mishaps do not repeat.

Any public statements are always given to maintain favorable public opinion.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

As I told you earlier, all this “US/NATO apology is a victory for Pakistan” speech is meant for folks like you, to feel good about the situation & claim a moral victory, in what is actually a loss. Behind the scenes, the “sale prices” are being set. I’m also hearing about a new tax for the use of Pakistani highways by NATO. What do you think that “tax” actually is?

Posted by Mortal | Report as abusive
 

Ahh…there you go Mortal. I knew a Pakistani/Indian (or for that fact any other country’s) official not taking hefty bribes when there is opportunity for it is a very very distant reality. But what is disturbing is that when income tax paid by ordinary Pakistanis is being “galloped” by their politicians then its useless to think of NATO tax being used for public good. Its definitely a bribe and a big one too.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

Umair,

And “public statements” are meant for “ordinary public” only with very less truth in them. So learn to read between lines. And if you already knew the tax/bribe deal then its fine on your part to defend your country’s position on an international forum. Anyone would do that.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

India should help us out with North Waziristan.

Posted by Bill | Report as abusive
 

@Bill
“India should help us out with North Waziristan.”

If you are an American then you are the craziest person in America. Have you gone nuts.

And if you are a Pakistani (highly unlikely) then I would say your request in innocent but very unacceptable to people in power inside Pakistan.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

“India should help us out with North Waziristan.”

India has no military alliance with any nation. Your illustrious allies should help you out.

Posted by trickey | Report as abusive
 

GW says:
“–>Khan, what do you think about Shiites and Ahmadiyas and other minorities getting killed in Pakistan?….if you think me a racist, I hate think what you call Sunni’s who commit these crimes against Shiites and other minorities.”

-}I dont think Shia Sunni Ahmadiyas thing related to ethnicity or race. I am very much against religious intolerance and killings which happen not only to shia sunny or ahmadia in pakistan but also to muslims and christians in india. And these are things that pakistanis and indians have exchanged thousand times on every internet forum or blog. You will finger point at my one weakness, i will reciprocate with 5 time more at your side. No one is perfect.Lets move on …

“admire Pashtoons for their toughness and fierceness of spirit, but there are many things lacking in that region, which make it a productive, cohesive, moderate and safe society.
Its the year 2010, the world is getting crowded all nations need to share with each other, take the best from each other, look at themselves and adopt things from each other, philosophies that improve the viability and advancement of the culture. IE…India has adopted much from the west..political structure, education, technology…In this regard, the Pashtoons are static….

–} I would just advice you to travel to city of Afghanistan like jalalabad and then compare it with your any city in regard of planning, then feel the difference. Then see how many of shopkeepers are sikh and hindu which will tell you many things about the culture and openess of pakhtoons. In peshawar every hakeem shop is possessed by a sikh. See any video of kabul or other city on youtube before the agression of USSR. You will not find any footpath life at that time and even now.Why not compare ourselves with china…
I hope one day you visit Afghanistan or KPK and see how they treat you in accrdance with their pakhtoonwali.

Posted by Khan | Report as abusive
 

Hurrah, Pakistan Govt. opens the Khyber pass gates for traffic. Great news, but the roads of Pakistan from Karachi to Torkham and beyond are now under the surveilance of the Pashtoons, so are the truckers. Now we shall see the burning of fuel tanks and the disappearance of NATO supplies on a more regular basis. Perhaps the highway police petrols would be required along the route similar to those in the USA, right upto Kabul. it is getting more interesting. A very slow death for the invaders in a Pashtoon style. The stakes have been raised for the mission impossible.
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

All the closed roads are open again!!!!!!!!!

Looks like the Americans has finally bribed right persons in Pakistan.

Posted by Mark T | Report as abusive
 

Why china is not helping Pakistan to fight this Pakistani Taliban and kashmiri freedom fighters? Given the size and power of Chinese military it can easily occupy Kashmir and give it Pakistan as a friendship gift. I don’t think India has or will have the capability to confront Chinese military. Then the USA and NATO will seriously reconsider attacking Pakistan.

Posted by Gul | Report as abusive
 

Why china is not helping Pakistan to fight this Pakistani Taliban and kashmiri freedom fighters? Given the size and power of Chinese military it can easily occupy Kashmir and give it Pakistan as a friendship gift. I don’t think India has or will have the capability to confront Chinese military. Then the USA and NATO will seriously reconsider attacking Pakistan.
- Posted by Gul

–>Silly Paks, thinks Chinese actually care about you, they care about their financial future more.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

@Gul

Chinese helping the Taliban means “Vietnam War” all over again for USA. That will definitely change everything.

Jeff

Posted by Jeff | Report as abusive
 

US_ NATO will never win the war as long as afghan neighbor did not want it happend. the are so many neighbour of afgan: rusia, china, iran, india, which of those country trully taliban defeated.
they security will be better as long as NATO and US tide up in afghan war.
Its your war, its the right of pakistan to choice what is good for his country.
Afghan is pakistan traditional ally, now and for the future, get involved in NATO_US war is not a good choice for pakistan.
Let the supply route open was a maximum support pakistan can give if they want, other wise the supply will stop again. invasion nto pakistan? do not think it, you can not afford it, because collonialism have dead and burried 65 years ago, and world will not let the zomby wake up again.

Posted by anto | Report as abusive
 

The Pashtoons do not need help from chinese. The chinese made klashnikovs are more accurate than the home made and are a great help for them. But the Americans do need chinese to solve their dispute with the North Koreans and the Iranians. The Americans would welcome help from any one to get them out of the current mess that they got into; even NATO countries have not beem of a great help. Few soldiers here and few somewhere in the north, Brits are the real pals ready to die with their Nepalese Gorkhas. Am I being unfair, then please tell us about the war the Americans have ever won on their own??
Rex Minor

Posted by rex Minor | Report as abusive
 

sure US can not endure peolong war in afghan. so it does not make sense if it will take deeper war in afghan. war with pakistan will danger 150.000 NATO troops in afghan. Pakistan will stay in his position now, will not involve directly in afghan war.
o, for west only peace will safe their ugly face from defeated in afghanistan. Netherland allready hands of from battle ground. France will bussy with it problem at home. British the strong ally now face difficult financial pobleem. FED now busssy with printing dollar which now sharply devaluated. gold vallue of dollar only half compare to its vallue 2 years ago. so what ??
west failed to recollonised afghan.
Obama will come to indonesia in november, i advice him to meet Yusuf Kalla, he have experience in bringing peace in aceh. as a muslim leader he can help you get out of afghan without loosing face.

Posted by anto | Report as abusive
 

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