Afghan Journal

Lifting the veil on conflict, culture and politics

Denuclearising Pakistan

November 30, 2010

A woman walks past a Pakistan national flag on display at a sidewalk in Lahore August 13, 2010. REUTERS/Mohsin Raza/Files

At about the time WikiLeaks released tens of thousands of U.S. diplomatic cables, including one related to a secret attempt to remove enriched uranium from a Pakistani research reactor, a top Pakistani military official held a briefing for journalists that focused on U.S.-Pakistan ties.

Dawn’s Cyril Almeida has written a piece based on the officer’s comments made on the condition of anonymity, and they offer the closest glimpse you can possibly get of the troubled ties between the allies.

First off, as the officer says, Pakistan has gone from being the “most sanctioned ally” to the “most bullied ally” of the United States. Presumably the sanctions that the officer is referring to relate to those imposed  on Pakistan following its nuclear tests in 1998. And as for the most bullied ally the other comments offer a clue: 

These include and I quote from Almeida’s piece:

“The U.S. still has a transactional relationship with Pakistan; the U.S. is interested in perpetuating a state of controlled chaos; and perhaps most explosively given the WikiLeaks revelations, the “real aim of U.S. strategy is to de-nuclearise Pakistan.”

U.S. and Pakistani security interests aren’t the same including over Afghanistan and India, the military officer says. And while Islamabad understood America’s growing focus on North Waziristan, it had to first settle South Waziristan and also factor in the blowback any operation in the area would stoke. The officer intriguingly also talks about indications that parties in the conflict in Afghanistan can renounce al Qaeda and even ask it to leave Afghanistan. In other words he is suggesting  that the Taliban are  ready to break ties with al Qaeda  and if so that removes a big obstacle to peace talks.

But clearly the most significant revelation from the briefing which reflects  frank exchanges between the upper echelons of the Pakistan military and the Obama administration is the one about the the nuclear disarmament of Pakistan. There isn’t any further elaboration in Almeida’s article but taken together with the WikiLeaks disclosures  it seems to confirm the Pakistani people’s worst fears. America is on its borders and its overriding objective is to eliminate Pakistan’s nuclear weapons, its national asset and deterrent against much larger and nuclear-armed India. Indeed the whole idea that the United States has Pakistan’s nuclear programme in its sights just as it has virtually recognised India as a legitimate nuclear weapon state must rankle deep across Pakistan.

“The people of Pakistan measure the strength of U.S.-Pak relations on the scale of the U.S.-India partnership,” the military officer is quoted as saying.

According to WikiLeaks,  the United States has been secretly trying to convince Pakistan to allow it to remove uranium from a research reactor on fears it may be stolen or diverted for use in a nuclear device. But Pakistan has refused visits from American experts, according to a May 2009 report by former U.S. Ambassador Anne W.Patterson because “If the local media got word of the fuel removal, they would certainly portray it as the United States taking Pakistan’s nuclear weapons,” a Pakistani official told her.

The question is which reactor the Americans are talking about? Top Pakistani nuclear scientist Pervez Hoodbhoy thinks the report probably refers to the enriched uranium that Pakistan received under the Atoms for Peace programme that America  ran for several countries including India back in the 1960s. He told the Christian Science Monitor that the only reactor running on highly enriched uranium was a small 5mw facility at PINSTECH closed to Islamabad. Pakistan whose weapons programme is based on the uranium enrichment route rather than plutonium has since built its own capability. Any attempt to remove the uranium from that particular reactor is not going to impair its nuclear  programme.

Comments

What’s the similarities between indians vs pakistanis, and north koreans vs south koreans? They like hostilities and bloodshed against their own kind.

Brits must be LOL their arss off.

Posted by bkhjon | Report as abusive
 

KPSingh
“Think why the world is talking about nukes in Pakistan, Iran and North Korea and never about the nukes in China, India, Israel, UK, France, Russia and the US? There must be some genuine reason for it”
***We know the logic behind why Pakistan being asked to disarm nuclear weapons. WE know that is ridicuolus expectations, whatever may be the reasons.

More importantly we should discuss NPT and nuclear disarmament. It is recommended by NPT that nuclear weapon states (NWS China France Russia UK USA) halt the production of nuclear weapons, and removing nuclear weapons and their delivery vehicles. I know US and Russia took some steps in this direction. Why is that these responsible NWS do not abide by the policies agreed upon by them?

let me quote wikipedia

“In their (NAM) view, Article VI constitutes a formal and specific obligation on the NPT-recognized nuclear-weapon states to disarm themselves of nuclear weapons, and argue that these states have failed to meet their obligation. Some government delegations to the Conference on Disarmament have put forth proposals for a complete and universal disarmament, but no disarmament treaty has emerged from these proposals.[citation needed] Critics of the NPT-recognized nuclear-weapon states sometimes argue that what they view as the failure of the NPT-recognized nuclear weapon states to disarm themselves of nuclear weapons, especially in the post-Cold War era, has angered some non-nuclear-weapon NPT signatories of the NPT. Such failure, these critics add, provides justification for the non-nuclear-weapon signatories to quit the NPT and develop their own nuclear arsenals.”

Also from wikipedia

“These five NWS agree not to transfer “nuclear weapons or other nuclear explosive devices” and “not in any way to assist, encourage, or induce” a non-nuclear weapon state (NNWS) to acquire nuclear weapons (Article I). NNWS parties to the NPT agree not to “receive,” “manufacture” or “acquire” nuclear weapons or to “seek or receive any assistance in the manufacture of nuclear weapons” (Article II). …..”

***Is China, a NWS, at fault in helping Pakistan acquire nuclear weapons?

Let us expand the discussion.

Posted by rehmat | Report as abusive
 

@”This statement from a ’sponsor of state terrorism’ (in Kashmir)” Posted by Umairpk

Being a Pakistani, you should know all about “state sponsoring of terrorism” because that’s one thing in which your state (read ARMY) has “excelled” in, be it East Pakistan, Baluchistan FATA or NWFP etc. But the biggest problem, the world has with your country is, it’s “interstate” sponsor of terrorism.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

correction: “interstate” sponsoring of terrorism

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

rehamt: “Is China, a NWS, at fault in helping Pakistan acquire nuclear weapons?

Let us expand the discussion.”

Botth China and the US are at fault for helping Pakistan acquire the nukes. I always quote this wonderful book titled, “Nuclear Deception” by Adrian Levy and Catherine Clark. If you can get a hold of it, I’d highly recommend it.

US is the bigger culprit of the two. China came in only much later. According to the book, the CIA and the US State department worked hand in hand to prevent any evidence of Pakistan’s clandestine nuclear program being exposed. This was because the US badly needed to fight the war against the Soviets and Pakistan’s co-operation was vital. They needed to get Congress approval for funds to Pakistan to fight this war on their behalf. Saudis has agreed to match dollar to dollar if the funding went through. Reagan had to lie to the Congress that Pakistan was not capable of making nukes, while Pakistan had perfected the centrifuge technology by 1982. To go from enriched Uranium to weapon making needed further technology and Pakistan did not have the designs and material on hand. By 1983, China stepped in to help. This, according to the book, was in exchange for stolen stinger missile technology for China. A Pakistani air force plane landed in some remote place in China and lifted off with the weapons design. The Chinese also gifted enough material to make a bomb. By 1984, Pakistan had built a dozen bombs. Reagan had to lie to Congress again that Pakistan was not capable of retrofitting the F16s with nuke delivery systems. This helped ship more F16s to Pakistan as a means to increase the offensive against the Soviets. Pakistan not only had the bombs, but also managed to retrofit the F16s for delivering them.

In 1983, Israelis met with Indira Gandhi and her advisers. There was plan to knock out Kahuta and other nuclear facilities. The KGB informed them that CIA had already tipped Pakistan about this plan and things had been moved off from the targets. Indira Gandhi shot down the plan at that point.

While Reagan was lying to Congress, the State Department completely erased off all evidence of two Pakistanis trying to ship maraging steel from the US. They were arrested due to the push by a low ranking CIA officer. But since all evidence disappeared, the men were let go and the steel had been shipped. The low ranking CIA officer was put through hell by his superiors. He was driven around so much that they could build a case that he was mentally unstable and get him fired. And his wife walked out on him.

Israel and India decided to expose the presence of the Islamic bomb. If it was done, then Reagan would have egg on his face and further support to Pakistan would be curtailed. According to the book, India launched Operation Brass Tacks, which was a massive military exercise near Pakistani border. And Pakistan took the bait and moved its troops near the border. Nukes were loaded on to the F16s. This alarmed the US and it tried hard to diffuse the tension.

Indian journalist Kuldeep Nayyar was sent into Pakistan to interview AQ Khan. The wily journalists simply took Khan for a ride with his questioning and triggered deep emotions in him. An enraged Khan stood up and shouted the truth – Pakistan had the nukes and would drop it on the Indians without batting an eyelid. India got the confirmation it needed and wound its military exercise down. It was projected as a withdrawal in fear of the nukes. But AQ Khan’s open declaration cleared all doubt and became a serious embarrassment to Zia Ul Haq and his military. Again everything was hushed up.

In 1998, India decided to check the strength of Pakistani nukes and exploded its nukes. Pakistan took the bait again and exploded one more than India did. It gave the needed information on Pakistan’s nuclear capability and expertise. India has super computer capability and it has done enough optimization using numerical simulations. There was no need for it to explode the devices in 1998. But the only reason was to test Pakistan’s capability and see how true their claims were. India took the calculated risk that involved economic sanctions. Pakistan relies on Chinese super computers to conduct its optimization work.

In geo-politics there are no principles. The US has played with poison to get at its enemy. That enemy is dead and now the poison is difficult to get rid off from its veins. Pakistan is going to stand between US and a solution in Afghanistan. The US has now realized the mistake it has committed by encouraging a radical Islamic military regime in Pakistan under Zia.

Cold war was better compared to war against Islamic terrorism. In fact the decline of US dominance in this world is attributed to the end of cold war and the loss of a worthy enemy. Religion is the most dangerous weapon. One should never play with it. The US did and it is now paying the price for it.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

KPSingh

Thanks for the detailed post about pre-1947 history. Without deviating anymore from the topic of the blog entry, I would say that the possibility of it happening is not much. But that should not stop us from asking what are the changes needed at a common man level.

I started with suggestion to have common history for India/Pak (Bangladesh too actually), changed to pre-1947 history and I see that you do not find that it is feasible for the reasons you gave. We do not have to bring in Pakistan when we talk about Mughal rule.

I still think :- ) we need some abridged version of “religions and dynasties of the subcontinent for dummies” kind of book. THis is not the time though. The need is so huge that any attempt will make a huge difference.

“It was the British who emasculated the Muslims in the sub-continent after the Sepoy mutiny in 1857.”
***agreed. They have done for Sikhs too promoting certain Sikhs.

OK let us get back to denuking the world before they make dirty bomb? How abt that?

We need to discuss the topic of denuking Pakistan as part of the bigger discussion extending even to why dictatorship by 5 permanent UNSC members (they are also Nuclear weapon states). A bigger change is needed.

Posted by rehmat | Report as abusive
 

I also would recommend the book titled, “The Islamic Bomb,” by Weissman and Krosney. According to this book, Pakistan’s nuclear ambitions started well during Ayub Khan days. Ayub was not much interested in it. But ZA Bhutto desperately tried to convince him. In 1968, the Nuclear club was formed that made the US, the USSR, UK, France and China as the only declared nuclear powers. Bhutto wanted Pakistan to join that exclusive club in the early 1960s.

Ahmed Rashid’s book, “Descent into Chaos” brings in another theory which is going to be difficult to prove. According to this book, Zia Ul Haq and his men made a long term plan for Pakistan. This was to lay the foundation of a nuclear armed Pakistan ready to avenge the secession of East Pakistan and wrest Kashmir from India. The way to do was to engage the US in close proximity and make Pakistan the only pathway by which it could be accomplished. Zia also had plans to Islamize Pakistan. According to Rashid, both the CIA and Pakistan saw a common goal while having divergent expectations out of that goal. The goal was to lay a “Bear Trap” to the USSR in Afghanistan and lure it into this hostile terrain. The CIA initially had no plans to bring down the USSR. Afghan incursion was only to be used as an irritant to the USSR and used as a bargaining chip in other proxy wars elsewhere. The US and USSR were fighting each other off in South and Central America at that time. As the Soviets plunged neck deep into Afghanistan, suddenly the CIA saw the potential to weaken its enemy and even bring about its eventual collapse. Radicalization of the Afghans and Pakistanis offered a great potential. Commies were Godless. And here was a holy war. Afghans prior to this war were not so much into religious Jihads. Zia saw an opportunity to bring in orthodox Islamic rule to Pakistan. Saudis loved it. Money poured in. And Zia saw the advantage of being at the center of the action. He could not bargain for many things. The US could not do anything to Pakistan’s nuclear bomb development and they turned a blind eye to it in order to get through with their objectives. Since Pakistan was an ally, they assumed that no threat will ever emerge against them. Pakistan’s only goal at that time, according to them, was to get even with India, which was on the Soviet camp at that time.

There was no inkling that Al Qaeda will emerge from the ashes of that war and take the whole world into a never ending clash. Pakistan has tried to play the middle man again to facilitate this war. But it is burning Pakistan from within this time. And if that continues further, its nukes can become a danger to the world, and India especially.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Typo error in the above:

“And Zia saw the advantage of being at the center of the action. He could not bargain for many things.”

Should read as,

“And Zia saw the advantage of being at the center of the action. He COULD bargain for many things.”

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Do I care if indians and pakistanis slaughter each other?
Heck I don’t. On the other hand, brits are getting what they had wished for – divide and conquer.

The trouble is, brits empire is long gone but the indians kept slaughtering each other.

How barbaric these people are. Are they stupid? YES.

Posted by bkhjon | Report as abusive
 

I don’t mind at all if indians and pakistanis wipe each other out for good. After all, the world is over populated.

Now, you lowlies can start to wipe each out for GOOD.

Posted by bkhjon | Report as abusive
 

Do I care about Indians? Hell no. they are the lowest of the cast system, ditto pakistanis.

The civilized world would do better without these lowlies.

Posted by bkhjon | Report as abusive
 

Indians come up with all sorts of crappy religious philosophy, in the end, they are just bunch of savages. Ditto Pakistanis.

Ghandi was the only smart Indian who had gotten rid of brits.
he was the only smart man out of billion plus stupid indians.

Posted by bkhjon | Report as abusive
 

Pakis don’t give sheesh to brits. Indians give whole lot of sheesh to their former english masters.

LOL at stupid indians.

Posted by bkhjon | Report as abusive
 

“english masters are coming, english masters are coming” – bunches and lots of indians boys and girls.

Stupid indians, or pakistanis for that matter,

Posted by bkhjon | Report as abusive
 

Indians and Pakistanis are more stupid than africans.

Posted by bkhjon | Report as abusive
 

@bkhjon

Did you lose your job because of outsourcing to India or Pakistan?? Good. Keep bickering, it doesn’t makes a difference. :)

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

Mr. Sanjeeev,

Are you there? You used to weed out inappropriate comments. We are seeing some trolls. Can you step in and stem them? I am referring to the comments made by one bkhjon here. Please take a look and provide a warning.

Thanks,

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Rehmat: “We do not have to bring in Pakistan when we talk about Mughal rule.”

Agreed. Mughal history in India is one of the most colorful times the sub-continent has seen. I wish some rich patron makes a detailed TV documentary on them some day. I have read a book titled, ” The Mughal throne” by one Abraham Early. It is incredible to go through the history during this period. I’d say the sub-continent reached its zenith during the period from Akbar to Shah Jehan. The richness and taste expressed during this time, the romantic tales and drama are absolutely thrilling. This was the time when differences were forgotten. Akbar expanded the foundation laid by Sher Shah Suri, the Afghan Sultan and that Mansabdari system stayed in tact even during the British time. Persian became the court language all across the sub-continent.

One will be surprised to learn that Urdu developed in the Deccan peninsula. The world Urdu has the same origin as the Russian word “Orda” or the English word “Horde.” It developed as a link language between soldiers from various linguistic backgrounds under the Bamani Sultans. Can one imagine that this language became rich and mellifluous to the ears over time? I used to love watching some Pakistani shows where Urdu flowed like a poem into one’s ears.

I can go on and on. If anyone is interested, I can provide a list of books to educate oneself about the whole sub-continent. In my opinion it is the most interesting place in the world. I am glad I am a part of it.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

rehmat: “We need to discuss the topic of denuking Pakistan as part of the bigger discussion extending even to why dictatorship by 5 permanent UNSC members (they are also Nuclear weapon states). A bigger change is needed”

In my opinion, the whole UN in its current form was created to facilitate the power grip of the Western nations that won the world war II. Times have changed. Many things set up during those days are irrelevant. UK and France were big colonial powers at that time. Now they are small nations like Spain and Germany. And they have privileges that they do not deserve.

The UN is not democratic in its structure. UNSC is a total farce. Veto power negates all that the UN is meant for.

I’d say that the UN itself needs to be replaced with a newer institution where all members have equal voting rights. Wars cannot be waged without the permission of such an international institution. Any country violating that should face sanctions. Such an institution should have the largest military in the world with soldiers and commanders supplied from all volunteering nations. It should have the power to depose dictators and militants who take over countries against the will of their people. Major rivers and resources should come under the governance of such an institution. This will prevent dams being built to deny water to downstream nations, or cause big environmental disasters. Such an institution should have the power to halt whaling or exploiting life in the ocean or indiscriminate deforestation. An international currency should be floated under this organization.

Any international dispute should be taken to this world organization and members should vote on the verdict. Majority votes should decide what the course of action should be. The cases can be on water and resource sharing, transportation, formation of new nations, merging of nations etc.

The world has to become one nation first before we go and populate other planets.

I hope my wish gets fulfilled during my life time.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

KP Singh said:

> The world Urdu has the same origin as the Russian word “Orda” or the English word “Horde.”

The full name of Urdu is ‘Zabaan e Urdu e Mualla’ (the language of camp and court). ‘Ordo’ is the Turkish word for ‘army’ from which the English word ‘horde’ comes.

So my Internet research tells me :-).

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

KP Singh said:

> If anyone is interested, I can provide a list of books to educate oneself about the whole sub-continent.

Please do. I’m very interested. I have also recently ordered a few books from Amazon (admittedly India-centric), and they seem very interesting:

1. In Spite of the Gods (The Miracle of Modern India) by Edward Luce

2. India after Gandhi by Ramachandra Guha

3. Imagining India by Nandan Nilekani

4. Superpower? (The Amazing Race between China’s Hare and India’s Tortoise) by Raghav Bahl

5. The Long View from Delhi (to Define the Indian Grand Strategy for Foreign Policy) by Admiral Raja Menon and Rajiv Kumar

It’s good to see quality writing coming out of India from a number of relatively new authors.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

Ganesh,

Thanks for your list. My list is more old history oriented and some global ones. I do have Ramachandra Guha’s work in my list. It is a great book.

1. History of India – I by Romilla Thapar
2. History of India – II by Perceival Spear
3. A wonder that was India – by AL Bhasham
4. The adventures of Ibn Batuta – by Ross Dudd
5. The great Arab Conquest – Hugh Kennedy
6. The Ottomon Centuries – by Lord Kinross
7. Raj – by Lawrence James
8. Origin Growth and Suppression of Pindaris – MP Roy
9. Deceivers – History of the Thuggee cult – William Sleeman
10. India a Million Mutinies – VS Naipaul
11. Among the Believers – VS Naipual
12. The Last Mughal – William Dalrymple
13. The Mughal Throne – Abraham Early
14. The travels of Morco Polo – Manual Komroff
15. India after Gandhi – Ramachandra Guha
16. India the Siege within – MJ Akbar
17. Taliban – Ahmed Rashid
18. Duel – Tariq Ali
19. Descent into chaos – Ahmed Rashid
20. Empire of lies – William Sorman
21. A History of South India – Neelakanta Shastri
22. The shadow of a great game – Narendra Singh Sarla
23 Islam – Alfred Guillame
24. The mutiny – Christopher Hibbert
25. Pakistan – Mary Anne Weaver
26. Nuclear Deception – Adrian Levy and Catherine Clark
27 The Islamic Bomb – Weissman and Crosny

And many more. I bought an IPad last week. I am going to fill it up with more books of this kind.

I encourage Pakistani readers to try some of these books as well. If one read more, it only expands one’s knowledge and gives a much more consistent and broader view of matters.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Another book I recommend is:

History of South East Asia by Ananda Coomaraswamy

Sorry for the digression from the main topic.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Ganesh: “The full name of Urdu is ‘Zabaan e Urdu e Mualla’ (the language of camp and court). ‘Ordo’ is the Turkish word for ‘army’ from which the English word ‘horde’ comes.”

Urdu has more to do with military camps. It was a link language used by soldiers from various linguistic and ethnic backgrounds.

Interestingly, when the Russians ran over Afghanistan, they called the Mujahideen as “Dushman” or “Doshman”.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Ghost wars: the secret history of the CIA, Afghanistan, and bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001
Author: Steve Coll (2004)

While no doubt the South Asian continent is diverse and interesting place, will you also include Afghanistan as part of it? The sub-continent stretches far and wide starting from the mountains of North-western Pakistan to the delta in Bengal and further. The geo-political dynamics, the countries of the subcontinent faces different challenges. For all its problems, Pakistan has gone thorugh a lot during all these years. I think it is about time outside powers stop interfering in the subcontinent and let things sort out on their own. And similarly no one can claim to be an expert on Subcontinent, or know it all unless you are mindful of the decades of intervention in the region by super powers.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

World’s Nuke Power include China Russia Britain France USA and Germany.They seem to ignore other Nuke Power Bomb possessing countries which include Israel India Pakistan.This total 9.Why denuclearize Pakistan ?Seem conspiracy to defraud Pakistan. Like Nuke Bomb world religion is two type.Human based or Universe based as I jot down in http://www.islamicsocialclub.wordpress.c om based on NASA’s grand Universe with earth sun moon and Arabia’s new moon(live) for visualisation.Denuclearization talk coincided by reports of Israeli activities in Dubai and Karzai’s sudden wealth and asset in Dubai.This came with 1932 ‘s Saudi Arabia of Lawrence of Arabia recommendation of kill all Shias of Iran.There is solution .Why not we convert as Islamic United Arabia Republic comprising Saudis all the 7 sheiks of UAE and sheiks of Muscat Oman Qatar )all under one roof under same management) but as Islamic UAR.We have now more progressive Central Asians and Russians from Russian Federation and Balkans Europeans and many with background in Nuke Space satellite going to above site shown in picture (including Muslims)

Posted by belal59 | Report as abusive
 

Umairpk: “Ghost wars: the secret history of the CIA, Afghanistan, and bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001″

Thanks Umair. I’ll get that book and read it.

Another book I’d recommend is “Charlie Wilson’s war”.

We are, however, talking about history the region prior to 1947 mostly. Afghanistan definitely forms a part of it. India’s Islamization starts with Mahmud of Ghazni. But history goes way back to Alexander the Great and beyond. Afghanistan figures in one of the Indian epics titled Mahabharata.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Fellows, according to new rules of the Reuters, the bloggers who are providing lot of crap, abbreviated rude words and posting children stories would seldom experience the direct intervention by the moderators. Instead, the data is being accumulated to profile the individuals and eventually bar them from the Reuters Blog.

All of us, including BKJohn have a free ride until then. This is not a joke but my undersanding of the rules. Let Sanjeev deny it if this is not correct.

Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

6. The Elephant, The Tiger and The Cell Phone by Shashi Tharoor

That’s something I bought a long time ago but didn’t make much headway reading. It’s more a collection of Tharoor’s newspaper columns. I think he speaks a lot better than he writes!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EiTrl0W1Q rM

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

@Bilal59
Sanjeev is a good journalist, he tries to encourage comments from the bloggers with provocative titles. The USA is not concerned with the n*clear weapons, but the nu*clear material.
The “Think Tank” is of the opinion that there are criminals around the world who are interested in peddling n*clear material and not transporting bombs from one part of the world to another.
Iran, North Korea and several other countries ( not Germany)also possess n*clear weapons. North korea is under pressure to support den*clearisation of the korean penuinsula and Iran is under pressure to prevent them becoming self reliant on n*clear weapons.

Rex Minor

PS
Now here is another one, the n*clear reactors which are meant to produce energy for industry and civilian purpose are more dangerous for the people than the n*clear bombs. The americans are not the great expert in this technology, but the French are!

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

The only reason anybody is worried about Pakistan’s nuclear weapons is precisely because they increasingly look like they’re heading in the same direction as their western neighbour.

If they had sincerely clamped down on all the “non-state actors” running around and put in an honest day’s work helping contain the Taliban, there might not even be US forces next door today.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive
 

KPSingh, Umair, Ganesh

I agree with KPsingh that UN is undemocratic organization and needs revamping.

Countries with veto power in UN and the “nuclear have’s” are the shining example of the un-democratic nature of how things are run globally. USA rather than forcing democracy in countries like Iraq should force it in UN. Add to it the NPT issue.

This all directly feeds into discrimination felt by the rest of the countries. Isreal has bomb with US consent and India secretly did the Pokhran-II after the US satellite were positioned to spy on Indian nuclear test site. Pakistan did not do anything different so among others US Japan condemned Indian and Pakistani nuclear tests. Japan Science and Technology Agency told me that a decision on my scholarship application, as would be for all Indian/Pakistani candidates, will not be made for now since our countries performed nuclear tests. Many months later Japan reversed the decision, considered my application and awarded me the scholarship which I equally politely declined saying it was not me who did the nuke test and that I have been offered position somewhere else.

The difference between India and pakistan is nuclear proliferation. But India is not fault-free if you look at Pokhran-I in 1974. US/canada condemned that since heavy water was from US and the reactor was based upon Canadian technology, not meant for such purposes. Canada snapped ties on nuclear technology with India after that test.

Pakistan’s technology was stolen from Europe (AQkhan’s misadventure) aided by China, overlooked by the US.

Having acknowledged that India and Pakistan are both at fault, Pakistan has gone a step further. They should have ensured that they have atomic bomb and stop there and shut up like India did. Exchanging nuclear material/technology with any other nation was a reckless act that a Pakistani should also condemn. One can support Iran;s case or North Korea;s case for having nukes but proliferating nuke material with N.Korea and others for petty money and technology was irresponsible.

Clearly US and China, and the UN permanent member NWStates are at fault too.

Merely citing risk for dirty bomb and thinking of using covert operations to denuke a country makes little sense. It is about time when force is not used for problem solving.

UN should be made democratic with no power to a single nation. However, should a country of let us say 100, 000 people that has never been heard of carry the same voice as the US or China or France will have to asked? Also after UN with 190or so countries, OIC with 57 countries is the 2nd largest organization. NATO has 28countries. If UN becomes democratic, we will see voting banks with sudden shift in power dynamics although it may not be that straightforward.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thanks for the book references.I have read some including “Nuclear Deception” by Adrian Levy and Catherine Clark and Descent into Chaos by Ahmed Rashid.

Posted by rehmat | Report as abusive
 

@kEiThZ

“The only reason anybody is worried about Pakistan’s nuclear weapons is precisely because they increasingly look like they’re heading in the same direction as their western neighbour.”

***What would you do if you were an Iranian? Don’t you think as an Iranian, it makes perfect sense to acquire nuclear weapons sooner than later the way UN is used as a platform and sometimes even not used in waging wars. Countries feel real fear and a bag of nuclear material is a great insurance against the superpower landing in their country.

Posted by rehmat | Report as abusive
 

@Rehmat

You have stated several times that whole idea of getting nukes is to deter the invaders. Which effectively means that “jiski laathi uski bhains” (survival of the fittest and mightiest). Now tell me how can we have a UN with equal powers when only few have nukes? Can this really happen? Will US, China, France, or for that fact any super power at any given time let it happen??

Now someone may put forth the point that unity among rest will force super powers to kneel. Do you think people shouting ‘independence independence’ all the time can be united at any platform?? When we cannot be united in our own societies, cities, states, nations then what to talk of being united in UN. On one hand everyone wants a SEPARATE country for himself (and on top of that takes pride if one achieves the separate country, eg: Europe) and on other hand we talk of putting united fronts in UN against the super powers. They are not super powers because they are supreme beings but because rest of all are fools to keep fighting for their so called independence from their OWN people.

If there is a fault with system then improve system instead of seeking independence. Assam in India is an example. ULFA seeked independence, govt pushed through development programs, ULFA surrendered and now finally ULFA men including top commanders are released to let them live a respectable life. Assam is a happy state now and stands as an example to everyone else seeking so called independence from their own people. Punjab is another such state. Assam is more recent development though.

But looking at world at large specially Europe and Africa I hardly see any such resort to put a united front against super powers’ monopoly in UNSC. Europe is virtually ruled by France and Germany and African continent is mess (created by Arabs+US in background). That leaves Asia, led by China. China already has its veto in UN so that leaves space for no one else. Back to square zero.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

UN needs to be replaced with a newer, more powerful world organization, that is democratic to the core. No country should have any clout in driving such an organization. If such an organization had existed, Iraq war would never have happened. And the function of such a body should be towards diffusing tension between two countries and preventing cold war like blocks from emerging.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan military has one advantage now, which they did not have, when a third level ambassador threatened Musharaf. Today they are able to retaliate!
I wonder if this is a progress, since on the domestic side, Pakistan military has opened up a can of worms at several fronts which it is not capable to control. Pakistan military would eventually be confined to former garrison towns which the Brits constructed for their protection.

Even n*clear militaries are helpless against asymetric Asymetric warfare.

Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

@Rex Manor

Why worry defining N*Clear, Nuclear or Hiroshima or think tank? There is One earth many galaxies infinite hole or space with Trillions of watery or none watery thing.Water is composed of Hydrogen and Oxygen and other Air Nitrogen etc.For experiment by God , Pre Human creations were punished.Replacement seem interlinked.They are currently in different format of religion behaviour and atheism or in sexuality orientation wealth and poverty being evaluated .In my opinion they have been bunched together as what they did together jointly causing same mischief.They are based on previous format re-evaluated as it seem automated movement determining and positioning .Religion is also evolution as religious evolution.There is warning.Asking latest Religion one to invite previous ones to be religious and take heed.Instead people have designed own moral and behaviour code.You have to have it by forcei.e.wealth or poverty or sin.Security from Punishment is based upon getting data erased by one and Only creator (before death).However,the creator is extremely merciful ready and willing to forgive if you admit and ask.Some will die as arrogant as in the past..Human commit own mischief or sin by using other .People are squandering valuable time in sleep.Now Saudis want Nuke Power plants after squandering what is not theirs.Iran wants to supply Nuke PP with own Uranium Mine and purification as future exporterer.Nothing Wrong .Who cares? People as they commit illicity automatically are drawn into galaxies(hostile and hot zone).Imagine engine of A380 jumbo jet with 500 -800 capacity with 5000 deg c (half of sun’s).I pray for my self to come out of it despite peaceful sleep heating airconditioning for now or in suitable climate living (with or without comfort .Like Sanjeev I come from India and I was in Pakistan as well as in Delhi twice in last 5 yrs and in many parts in EU Americas.Israelis Americans Canadians or Brits are also squandering wealth time and converting good situation into bad by force i.e.you have to have it due to their incompetence own WMD using Resource (not own) or DEBT (also by force).Human did come via Adam and Eve creation (it seems).Evolution of People in current format is due to religion or place.Human is from same origin.In website,I gave site http://www.islamicsocialclub.wordpress.c om/.Says religion look again and again and see if you can see joints in space.But imagine space around and expand it into many skies and joints. Look and imagine religion of time travel worth years in split of seconds from which came prayer.(morning Azan says get up even tiny prayer is better than sleep).In Galaxy comment,religion says sun rise from east sets in the west amid rotation of earth sun moon night and day until one day no more permission will be given to rise from east.Even now Prez Obama’s Hawai ? May be it is tiime to call it sun rise from West.Or If this means death when drawn into hot temperature where head content will be boiled over amid cooling and reheating.Israelis US Canadians or others are joke.

Posted by belal59 | Report as abusive
 

@belal59
I am not the one who is going to disagree with anything you have said, a typical thoughful asian approach.

Even here we say;

Et es wie et is, ( It is what it is)
Et kutt wie et kutt,( It happens what has to happen)
Et het noch immer jot jehyange( So far it has always been good)
Küste hük nit küste morge( If not today then tomorrow),

A good day.

Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

@777

“You have stated several times that whole idea of getting nukes is to deter the invaders. Which effectively means that “jiski laathi uski bhains” (survival of the fittest and mightiest). Now tell me how can we have a UN with equal powers when only few have nukes? Can this really happen? Will US, China, France, or for that fact any super power at any given time let it happen??”

***So far no nuclear weapon-bearing state has NOT been attacked by another one with or without nuclear weapons. That has been the end result so far. But indirectly it also means that the possibility of the use of nuclear weapons in a war is REAL. There is no fight over “buffalo”. It makes sure that no one loses its buffalo if they have a stick. Iraq lost its, N,Korea Pakistan will not since they have stick. Disadvantages are that covert warfare and the use of terror as a tool has increased.

UN permanent membership and acquiring nuclear material for destructive purpose is related. They are the same 5 nations.

Peaceful use of nuclear energy is extended to non-permanent UNSC members and non-NWStates. There are 16 total countries where least 25% of the nation’s need is fulfilled by nuclear energy–so 11 non-nuclear weapon states. France uses the max with 75% of electricity in France derived from nuclear energy.

India is unique that it is an unofficial nuclear weapon state but been recognized officially for the civil use of nuclear energy.

Clearly peaceful use of nuclear energy does not seem to be the problem. The use is debatable but that is a separate issue. Acquiring nuclear weapons for anyone but 5 nations is not allowed nor is allowed the peaceful use of energy for some like Iran mentioning doubt that it is not for peaceful purposes.

“But looking at world at large specially Europe and Africa I hardly see any such resort to put a united front against super powers’ monopoly in UNSC. Europe is virtually ruled by France and Germany and African continent is mess (created by Arabs+US in background). That leaves Asia, led by China. China already has its veto in UN so that leaves space for no one else. Back to square zero.”
***I do not expect anyone in the world standing up, raising voice that would be heard and changing the things. Not gonna happen in foreseeable future. Rather reverse has happened. Look at Indian stance for Iran. India changed its stance in favor of the USA even as Russia and China did not. Another issue is Iran-India gas pipeline that USA is trying to influence. China is tilting closer to Iran and India is going away. I personally do not like when foreign policies are changed at this level. This has been India’s weak point versus China. Back to the issue, my expectation is that tackling the issue of UN and nuclear weapons should be and has to be done by 5 UN members and the NWStates. That is the most viable approach if they really fear dirty bombs. These are the countries who shed maximum tears about dirty bombs coming from Pakistan or doubt Iran’s program. They have to denuke themselves of their stockpile. Peaceful use of energy should be extended to all nations by meeting common International standards.

Posted by rehmat | Report as abusive
 

Rex Minor said:

> Even here we say;

Et es wie et is, ( It is what it is)
Et kutt wie et kutt,( It happens what has to happen)
Et het noch immer jot jehyange( So far it has always been good)
Küste hük nit küste morge( If not today then tomorrow),

What language is this again? Reminds me of Charlie Chaplin speaking “German” in The Great Dictator.

Having fun at our expense?

As for Belal59 and his thoughts, he seems to be having fun too.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

Ganesh Prasad asked<

This is the colonia dialect spoken locally, probably a mixture of Roman and German language, and perhaps flavoured with urdu language spoken in north of India?
This language is spoken when the foreigners are around and are not meant to follow the conversation. Being a jew Charlie Chaplin could not understand it.

rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan: “Being a jew Charlie Chaplin could not understand it.”

Yeah right! Based on your analysis, Dalai Lama is chief of Ku Klux Klan.

Can you verify something before you proclaim it?

http://www.jewornotjew.com/profile.jsp?I D=2

He was sympathetic to Jews because the Germans slaughtered them.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

“Can you verify something before you proclaim it?”
Posted by KPSingh01

NO. Because then, he won’t be able to dump the psychotic garbage clogging his brain, on this blog!

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Mortal1: “Because then, he won’t be able to dump the psychotic garbage clogging his brain, on this blog”

I thought he said it comes out of his guts. Thank God! Internet has not advanced yet to reveal smells.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

It is one thing not to have the knowledge of smething, it is another to challenge the knowledge by producung some very cheap references on this blog.
The former seretary of state mrs albright also claimed unawareness of having jewish parents, the Danish cartoonist and the former british foreign secretary also took the cover of an atheist, denying their jewish heritage.

I had no intention to belittle either the jewish heritage or charlie chaplin.

Rex minor

PS I get the impression that you guys are not aware of the “Naming Procedure” in Germany under the Great Dictator, g Prasad referred to?

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

Pakistan: “It is one thing not to have the knowledge of smething, it is another to challenge the knowledge by producung some very cheap references on this blog.”

The burden is on you to prove your point. Cheap references or not, I provided one. If you want to counter that with any genuine, authentic reference, do it. Otherwise your words have no meaning. You claimed Charlie Chaplin is a Jew. There was no need for it in the context of the discussions. Since you brought it up, provide a valid reference. Let me see if you can do that.

Since you claim to live in Germany, you must be aware of modern day analysis – no hand waving statements work now-a-days. If you claim something, have proof in some form available to back it up. Your claims seem to resemble mosque gossip, which is quite powerful now-a-days in influencing young minds into revolting.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

I learnt German at University. What Rex Minor posted was not German. He’s taking us for a ride. Nice try, Rex.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

@Ganesh
You were not supposed to understand the local dialect, did’nt I mention this? Since when do people learn local dialects of any language in a university? I thought you were cleaverer but brighter as well than the rest of the mob who rely on newspaper stories?

Rex Minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

Rex,

It didn’t look much like Koelsch either, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

I wish Indians would reform the education system so that your attitude towards other communities of the world does not reflect the inferiority complex!

Rex minor

Posted by pakistan | Report as abusive
 

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