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	<title>Comments on: Dialect fun</title>
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	<pubDate>Tue, 10 Nov 2009 16:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Rose Chea</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-3839</link>
		<dc:creator>Rose Chea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Nov 2008 23:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-3839</guid>
		<description>First and foremost, to Ben Blanchard, I would like to commend you on a well thought out and informative article. I plan on posting a link to this article on Myspace for my friends to read. 

To many of the ignorant commenters I\'ve read from above, I think it is deplorable how very uninformed people have been lambasting this writer. I am ethnically Chinese but raised in the United States. My family\'s dialect is DioJiu (also spelled commonly known as TeoChew and ChiuJau), which is part of the Min(Minnan)subgroup of dialects. I speak English fluently as I\'ve resided in the U.S. since the age of 5 months, but also speak fluent DioJiu, learned a smidgen of Spanish from friends, smidgen of French in high school, and went to Chinese language school to learn Mandarin and write in hanzi (Chinese character script) although I am not at all fluent in Mandarin, I can understand it when spoken to me better than I can reply. Speaking from experience, what Blanchard said is absolutely true. Linguistically, the languages of China were united to use the same writing system because the government devised that it would unite the country and allow people to communicate. China is large and this occured when its kingdoms were united into what is relatively the territory of modern China. People were encouraged to learn Mandarin-later forced even-to speak to one another but could also communicate by writing. In ancient times, people were not educated in schools but learned information passed down orally. Not everyone could write, least of all the poor peasants. This was possible because at the time, not all languages of China likely had their own writing system. Chinese characters are not phonetically read but are ideograms, depicting an idea rather than a sound. Spoken tongues sharing the same writing system are defined as being the same language, whereas a dialect is defined as a variety of a language sharing a writing system but differing in speech. So you can see why Chinese cannot be defined as different languages although they are. This is why Chinese is considered one language. However, linguists do acknowledge that were it not for the singular writing system, China would indeed be considered to have many native languages. This is because most Chinese cannot understand each other while speaking different dialects. However, as noted in a comment, Chinese youth would have no difficulty passing notes in class, because all writing is written the same. In some dialects, spoken idioms and grammar are different when written because they must be converted to the standardized Mandarin version. Some colloquialisms have no translation in other dialects. It is true that people can sometimes understand other dialects because they can guess at the meanings of some words, but this is only true of those dialects from the same region of the country. Unless using Mandarin, a northern Chinese would not understand a southern Chinese by speaking for example. Two southern Chinese speaking different dialects could passably communicate. They could all communicate by writing however.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First and foremost, to Ben Blanchard, I would like to commend you on a well thought out and informative article. I plan on posting a link to this article on Myspace for my friends to read. </p>
<p>To many of the ignorant commenters I\&#8217;ve read from above, I think it is deplorable how very uninformed people have been lambasting this writer. I am ethnically Chinese but raised in the United States. My family\&#8217;s dialect is DioJiu (also spelled commonly known as TeoChew and ChiuJau), which is part of the Min(Minnan)subgroup of dialects. I speak English fluently as I\&#8217;ve resided in the U.S. since the age of 5 months, but also speak fluent DioJiu, learned a smidgen of Spanish from friends, smidgen of French in high school, and went to Chinese language school to learn Mandarin and write in hanzi (Chinese character script) although I am not at all fluent in Mandarin, I can understand it when spoken to me better than I can reply. Speaking from experience, what Blanchard said is absolutely true. Linguistically, the languages of China were united to use the same writing system because the government devised that it would unite the country and allow people to communicate. China is large and this occured when its kingdoms were united into what is relatively the territory of modern China. People were encouraged to learn Mandarin-later forced even-to speak to one another but could also communicate by writing. In ancient times, people were not educated in schools but learned information passed down orally. Not everyone could write, least of all the poor peasants. This was possible because at the time, not all languages of China likely had their own writing system. Chinese characters are not phonetically read but are ideograms, depicting an idea rather than a sound. Spoken tongues sharing the same writing system are defined as being the same language, whereas a dialect is defined as a variety of a language sharing a writing system but differing in speech. So you can see why Chinese cannot be defined as different languages although they are. This is why Chinese is considered one language. However, linguists do acknowledge that were it not for the singular writing system, China would indeed be considered to have many native languages. This is because most Chinese cannot understand each other while speaking different dialects. However, as noted in a comment, Chinese youth would have no difficulty passing notes in class, because all writing is written the same. In some dialects, spoken idioms and grammar are different when written because they must be converted to the standardized Mandarin version. Some colloquialisms have no translation in other dialects. It is true that people can sometimes understand other dialects because they can guess at the meanings of some words, but this is only true of those dialects from the same region of the country. Unless using Mandarin, a northern Chinese would not understand a southern Chinese by speaking for example. Two southern Chinese speaking different dialects could passably communicate. They could all communicate by writing however.</p>
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		<title>By: rawboy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-463</link>
		<dc:creator>rawboy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 09:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-463</guid>
		<description>So great to have some objective, knowledgeable reporting on China and its many beautiful languages. Its stories like this that will empower people to embrace the beauty of each and every language and preserve them for generations to come. 

Mandarin is a great language, so beautiful and ageless. It is evolving as are all langauges and that's what makes speaking and writing it such a pleasure. 

Ben's knowledge of the language and over 10 years experience in the region, as well as his vast vocabulary of both  unsimplified and simplified characters ensure his insights are true and well thought out. Keep up the great work Ben!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So great to have some objective, knowledgeable reporting on China and its many beautiful languages. Its stories like this that will empower people to embrace the beauty of each and every language and preserve them for generations to come. </p>
<p>Mandarin is a great language, so beautiful and ageless. It is evolving as are all langauges and that&#8217;s what makes speaking and writing it such a pleasure. </p>
<p>Ben&#8217;s knowledge of the language and over 10 years experience in the region, as well as his vast vocabulary of both  unsimplified and simplified characters ensure his insights are true and well thought out. Keep up the great work Ben!</p>
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		<title>By: Hubei</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-424</link>
		<dc:creator>Hubei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 May 2008 04:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-424</guid>
		<description>Actually,CHINA Han Ethnic has more than 1000 dialects,those all dialects have same writting called HANZI,so we call it CHINESE. In order to differ different dialects orally,we made Mandarin be an official oral Chinese,then all Chinese no matter where you're from,can understand each other well. Cantonese,Taiwanese,Shanghainese,Hainanese are all merely local dialects of Chinese,they are not a language at all,as we all use same handwritting.
For example,my hometown is Hubei,i could not speak Mandarin when i was there,i speak Mandarin after studying in other city,it's so easy for a Chinese to speak mandarin.

Why China's han did not have different languages? The reason is simple: As Chinese HANZI(Character) were created long time ago,it's hard to change its form.So all Chinese use hanzi,then oral Chinese tone changed after people migrated.But the handwritting not changed at all. Some linguistics even said this is one of the reasons China can be a unified country in different periods of history. Becoz Latin language 's form easily be changed,so Europe had different countries from long time ago.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually,CHINA Han Ethnic has more than 1000 dialects,those all dialects have same writting called HANZI,so we call it CHINESE. In order to differ different dialects orally,we made Mandarin be an official oral Chinese,then all Chinese no matter where you&#8217;re from,can understand each other well. Cantonese,Taiwanese,Shanghainese,Hainane se are all merely local dialects of Chinese,they are not a language at all,as we all use same handwritting.<br />
For example,my hometown is Hubei,i could not speak Mandarin when i was there,i speak Mandarin after studying in other city,it&#8217;s so easy for a Chinese to speak mandarin.</p>
<p>Why China&#8217;s han did not have different languages? The reason is simple: As Chinese HANZI(Character) were created long time ago,it&#8217;s hard to change its form.So all Chinese use hanzi,then oral Chinese tone changed after people migrated.But the handwritting not changed at all. Some linguistics even said this is one of the reasons China can be a unified country in different periods of history. Becoz Latin language &#8217;s form easily be changed,so Europe had different countries from long time ago.</p>
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		<title>By: Jake</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-415</link>
		<dc:creator>Jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 11:35:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-415</guid>
		<description>I'm suprised at the amount of animosity exhibited by Alan, NoWhereNear(way to post a real name), Mark, George, Carol and others. It seems once again that an individual's absolute and total familiarity with all aspects of China and Chinese culture is the single qualification to make any comment on either. 

As an advanced Chinese Learner, I have run into similar situations several times. Although I would not claim fluency or having mastered Mandarin, I can hold my own, yet have been flustered and frustrated several times by the complete uselessness of Mandarin in certain areas of China. In fact, I have met very few Chinese who are unwilling to admit that they themselves have been unable to communicate with people within their own country due to topolectical or dialectical differences.

Zhao zi long, you're an ass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m suprised at the amount of animosity exhibited by Alan, NoWhereNear(way to post a real name), Mark, George, Carol and others. It seems once again that an individual&#8217;s absolute and total familiarity with all aspects of China and Chinese culture is the single qualification to make any comment on either. </p>
<p>As an advanced Chinese Learner, I have run into similar situations several times. Although I would not claim fluency or having mastered Mandarin, I can hold my own, yet have been flustered and frustrated several times by the complete uselessness of Mandarin in certain areas of China. In fact, I have met very few Chinese who are unwilling to admit that they themselves have been unable to communicate with people within their own country due to topolectical or dialectical differences.</p>
<p>Zhao zi long, you&#8217;re an ass.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-410</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 03:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-410</guid>
		<description>When Russ learns more about Chinese, I think he'll understand the situation better.  Keep trying buddy.  Also, I think you're much better off claiming fluency than saying "I have mastered Mandarin".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Russ learns more about Chinese, I think he&#8217;ll understand the situation better.  Keep trying buddy.  Also, I think you&#8217;re much better off claiming fluency than saying &#8220;I have mastered Mandarin&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: NoWhereNear</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-401</link>
		<dc:creator>NoWhereNear</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-401</guid>
		<description>I have to agree with Tiffany 100 percent. Mandarin is mandarin, there shouldn’t be any deputes of who is what between the Taiwanese Mandarin and mainland China Mandarin.  They are identical in pronunciation with each has its own accent and a bit local culture added to their speech. That just saying New Yorkers will have no problem understanding Texans and will never say that Texans are speaking a dialect of American. 

However, on the other hand, if one must insisted Mandarin is a Chinese dialect. He/she could be right at a certain degree. Frankly we must dig back to the very beginning of China's thousands years of history when the regions at that time were greatly divided itself and conquered by several rulers and each region spoke own languages/dialects. During which period of time mandarin was only one dialect amongst hundred of other and it hasn’t became the official language until to date.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to agree with Tiffany 100 percent. Mandarin is mandarin, there shouldn’t be any deputes of who is what between the Taiwanese Mandarin and mainland China Mandarin.  They are identical in pronunciation with each has its own accent and a bit local culture added to their speech. That just saying New Yorkers will have no problem understanding Texans and will never say that Texans are speaking a dialect of American. </p>
<p>However, on the other hand, if one must insisted Mandarin is a Chinese dialect. He/she could be right at a certain degree. Frankly we must dig back to the very beginning of China&#8217;s thousands years of history when the regions at that time were greatly divided itself and conquered by several rulers and each region spoke own languages/dialects. During which period of time mandarin was only one dialect amongst hundred of other and it hasn’t became the official language until to date.</p>
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		<title>By: Russ</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-400</link>
		<dc:creator>Russ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 01:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-400</guid>
		<description>I think this is a well-written and interesting article. The writer is offering his own perspective on the language and does not claim to know everything about Chinese.

Keep up the good work Ben, and to all y'all haters, stop hatin'.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is a well-written and interesting article. The writer is offering his own perspective on the language and does not claim to know everything about Chinese.</p>
<p>Keep up the good work Ben, and to all y&#8217;all haters, stop hatin&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Tiffany</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-398</link>
		<dc:creator>Tiffany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-398</guid>
		<description>I do not know an awful lot about Asian languages and dialects. But I know from going to culturally diverse schools in Canada, that Mandarin speaking kids have little trouble communicating with Cantonese speaking kids when speaking in their own dialects. And the writing is the same - they pass notes to each other during class :-P It's the same language… unless you want to call Scottish and Canadian English different languages than American English? I'm not calling them dialects either, just saying, same language, different way of pronouncing some words. And for the record, when I was in Scotland, it wasn't easy understanding the English spoken there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not know an awful lot about Asian languages and dialects. But I know from going to culturally diverse schools in Canada, that Mandarin speaking kids have little trouble communicating with Cantonese speaking kids when speaking in their own dialects. And the writing is the same - they pass notes to each other during class <img src='http://blogs.reuters.com/china/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':-P' class='wp-smiley' /> It&#8217;s the same language… unless you want to call Scottish and Canadian English different languages than American English? I&#8217;m not calling them dialects either, just saying, same language, different way of pronouncing some words. And for the record, when I was in Scotland, it wasn&#8217;t easy understanding the English spoken there.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-397</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:40:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-397</guid>
		<description>I think Mr. Blanchard is generally accurate in his post and I find some of the comments posted in response to be ignorant.  

I am ethnically Chinese and I studied both Mandarin and Southern Min (aka Hokkien/Taiwanese) throughout my time in college at Stanford University as well as in my own independent research.

Spanish, Italian, and French are Latin dialects just as Mandarin, Taiwanese, Cantonese, etc. are Chinese dialects.  But in the same way as Spanish and Italian can be treated as separate languages, so can Mandarin and Taiwanese.  Whether you want to call something a dialogue or language often is defined by politics and perception--not necessarily by substance.  

There are more differences than simply different pronounciations for the same words.  Take Taiwanese and Mandarin for example.  First, Taiwanese has 7 tones.  It preserved 7 out of the 8 tones standardized in the Tang Dynasty.  Second, Taiwanese has much more extensive tone change rules than Mandarin.  Every word in a phrase will have a tone change when spoken.  Third, Taiwanese has a literary and vernacular register, meaning the same word will have two different pronounciations depending on the context of use.  Classical poetry are read in literary register while nursery rhymes will likely be read in the vernacular register.  Fourth, although Mandarin and Taiwanese share many of the same written characters, the same characters can mean different things.  For example, the word for walk in Mandarin "zou" is pronounced "zao" in Taiwanese, but it means "to run"--not "to walk"!  Fifth, even though there is a common set of characters, simple words like "toothbrush", "lights", and "scissors" are expressed using different characters in Taiwanese than in Mandarin.  Sixth,  some Taiwanese words, usually the vernacular words, simply don't have a character that is equivalently used in Mandarin.  Seventh, there are plays, poetry, songs, and stories written in Taiwanese that would not rhyme, sound well, or make sense if read or heard in Mandarin.  

China should appreciate its diversity in culture and not belittle its great cultural wealth.  After all, what makes Chinese "Chinese" is not a government or even a certain gene.  It is culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Mr. Blanchard is generally accurate in his post and I find some of the comments posted in response to be ignorant.  </p>
<p>I am ethnically Chinese and I studied both Mandarin and Southern Min (aka Hokkien/Taiwanese) throughout my time in college at Stanford University as well as in my own independent research.</p>
<p>Spanish, Italian, and French are Latin dialects just as Mandarin, Taiwanese, Cantonese, etc. are Chinese dialects.  But in the same way as Spanish and Italian can be treated as separate languages, so can Mandarin and Taiwanese.  Whether you want to call something a dialogue or language often is defined by politics and perception&#8211;not necessarily by substance.  </p>
<p>There are more differences than simply different pronounciations for the same words.  Take Taiwanese and Mandarin for example.  First, Taiwanese has 7 tones.  It preserved 7 out of the 8 tones standardized in the Tang Dynasty.  Second, Taiwanese has much more extensive tone change rules than Mandarin.  Every word in a phrase will have a tone change when spoken.  Third, Taiwanese has a literary and vernacular register, meaning the same word will have two different pronounciations depending on the context of use.  Classical poetry are read in literary register while nursery rhymes will likely be read in the vernacular register.  Fourth, although Mandarin and Taiwanese share many of the same written characters, the same characters can mean different things.  For example, the word for walk in Mandarin &#8220;zou&#8221; is pronounced &#8220;zao&#8221; in Taiwanese, but it means &#8220;to run&#8221;&#8211;not &#8220;to walk&#8221;!  Fifth, even though there is a common set of characters, simple words like &#8220;toothbrush&#8221;, &#8220;lights&#8221;, and &#8220;scissors&#8221; are expressed using different characters in Taiwanese than in Mandarin.  Sixth,  some Taiwanese words, usually the vernacular words, simply don&#8217;t have a character that is equivalently used in Mandarin.  Seventh, there are plays, poetry, songs, and stories written in Taiwanese that would not rhyme, sound well, or make sense if read or heard in Mandarin.  </p>
<p>China should appreciate its diversity in culture and not belittle its great cultural wealth.  After all, what makes Chinese &#8220;Chinese&#8221; is not a government or even a certain gene.  It is culture.</p>
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		<title>By: zhao zi long</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-394</link>
		<dc:creator>zhao zi long</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/china/2008/04/24/dialect-fun/#comment-394</guid>
		<description>It looks like that you think you know a lot about the language and are having fun showing off you limited knowledge,  but I just want to point out that it won't impress anyone as any 5th grade kid in China outperform your knowledge about the language.

It also made me laugh when you say "the governments call them dialects".  Where did you learn that, or it's your imagination?  I'd like to know an example of a language that YOUR government told you to use.

Anyway, from this blog, I learned what an arrogant and ignorant person you are.  Now I know your name, I will watch out and avoid when I see an article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks like that you think you know a lot about the language and are having fun showing off you limited knowledge,  but I just want to point out that it won&#8217;t impress anyone as any 5th grade kid in China outperform your knowledge about the language.</p>
<p>It also made me laugh when you say &#8220;the governments call them dialects&#8221;.  Where did you learn that, or it&#8217;s your imagination?  I&#8217;d like to know an example of a language that YOUR government told you to use.</p>
<p>Anyway, from this blog, I learned what an arrogant and ignorant person you are.  Now I know your name, I will watch out and avoid when I see an article.</p>
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