Changing China
Giant on the move
Who’s top of the medals table?
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Americans looking at the medals table to the right of this blog, or on the official Games website, might be surprised to see the host country topping the chart with 39 gold medals and 68 in total.
The New York Times website, meanwhile, has the United States on top with a chart-leading 73 medals in total, 23 of them gold.
We at Reuters rank nations by the number of golds. It’s the way the IOC does it and, according to Reuters sports editor Paul Radford, it’s the way that makes most sense.
Here’s what Paul had to say when I asked him about it:
Reuters serves international clients across the whole world and most of them want their medals tables prioritised by gold medals. It seems that it is mainly North America which takes a different attitude and where the total number of medals is the criterion used.
I can’t see the logic of the total medals system at all. That means giving the same value to a bronze medal as you would to a gold. If you look at the expression on athletes’ faces as they just finish second or third, it’s often one of disappointment that they did not get gold and the chance to call themselves Olympic champions; it’s less often delight at being a silver or bronze medallist unless they started as rank outsiders.
Some people say the silver medallist is the first of the losers. I think that’s a bit harsh personally but you can take the point. Look at it another way. If Michael Phelps had won six golds and two silvers, would anyone have described that as a greater achievement than Mark Spitz’s seven-gold medal haul? The answer is clearly not.
So we’ll stick to the logical order of running our table in gold medals order. If that puts China first and the United States second, then so be it. Our aim is to be objective and favour no nation above any other.
Do you agree? Let us know in the comments.
PHOTO: A combination photo shows Michael Phelps of the U.S. holding each of his eight gold medals in the swimming competition at the Beijing 2008 Olympic Games. REUTERS/Staff
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Neil – your point takenI think a lot of people are talking about extremes here to support overall metal. Likewise, in this olympics, if China beat US by 17 gold metal but lost overall metal by 3 (btw, that’s the current standing), can you really say US did better?Think about this: 1 country has 2 gold, no silver, no bronze, another country has 1 gold, 1 silver, 1 bronze. Which country should be ranked first? That should at least allow everyone to form their own opinion on the metal ranking.
Under the varying value system, they are tied.Country Agold 2 x 3 points each = 6 pointsCountry Bgold 1 x 3 points, silver 1 x 2 points, bronze 1 x 1 point = 6 pointsNothing wrong with a tie.Jim
The medal count also matters just as the gold count, depends on perspectives. The blog has its point and offers another opportunity to bash Americans. After all, the NYT primarily serves the American readers.On the other hand, I definitely think Mr. Fyland’s comments about silver and bronze as losers is more than harsh. I saw a couple of athletes collapsed with joy when they won bronze or silver medals. Many participating countries don’t even win any medal, but for them, it’s an honour to participate in the Olympic.It will be interesting to see in 2012 Olympic when China beats team GB on its home turf.
The gold medal count is like total real GDP. The total medal count is like GDP adjusted using purchasing power parity. It makes you feel good but, larger than you are.
So it’s ok for the US to top the medals table via gold medals in the 1964 Olympics but still have lesser medals than the Soviet Union… 36 golds vs 30 golds and 90 medals vs 96 medals respectively.But later on in 2008 they (USA) decide to change their mind to suit their egos and count total medal tally instead?? Nice going USA…Anyway, one thing’s for sure, the USA is leading the most hated country table in every way. God help the next president when he comes into office.
I think that steven said it the best;12:49 pm GMT It’s only a cultural difference. In North America, we tend to congradulate all athletes. I think even the person coming in last has done amazing to even be able to compete in the olypmics. So gold medal prioritization works for most, but in the U.S. we prefer the total medal count.And it’s not any national secret that China has a higher gold count…as im sure GB will in the next olympics. The US is proud of all of our athletes..not just the ones that won gold. Thats like saying you only claim 1 of your kids b/c they are prettier or have a higher paying job. And…yes…the US does feel like it’s the best county in the world…then again…so does GB
Honestly, WORLD. Why do you care so much? I have yet to see the US trashing the world for their achievements at the Olympics. These athletes deserve more. Shameful. From a true American fan. Congrats to the world!!!
Gold is a good measurement. Way to go China and UK. No more US domination.
It is OK to obey IOC.Ranking is depend on gold medal.Gold medal is the most important.Silver and bronze medalists is just the losser.
Next Olympic award Gold medals only ther will be no arguments.
there are valid and reasonable arguements to both sides. Gold is should be and obviously the most heavily weighted but that doesn’t mean silver and bronze dont matter. I guess it’s more of a way to make yourself feel better about where you stand; whether it’s “we have the most golds, the most champions.” or “we have the most medal; our nation puts equal emphasis on all winners”.With that said, here’s my two cents on the whole U.S vs. China and who comes out on top since everyone seems to make a big deal out of it. They are as of this moment 79 to 76 total medals and 26 to 43 golds. Now can you honestly tell me and most importantly yourself that a difference of 3 total medals override the difference of 17 golds. Which of the two nation have shown the better performance at the beijing games? I’m sure you would all come to the same conclusion.
haha whoa, didnt notice that mistake. it should read “Gold should be and obviously is the most….”
Honestly, why do people care how Americans rank the medal table? Every country does it in a way to make themselves feel proud, not just Americans. In Japan instead of showing the entire medal table we normally only see the medal count of Japan.
The real point is that india has 1 billion people and only one medal. There people are weak.
By the way, the host nation also gets a huge advantage. Has anyone been following up on gymnastics? Overscoring for Chinese gymnasts has been blatant. Chinese gymnasts are winning gold medals when they really should have won silver and winning bronze medals when they shouldn’t have won any. Foreign gymnasts are robbed.A great example is Liukin’s silver medal on Bars.
Maybe neither way is “wrong”. Statistics is always finds new ways to measure anything. Total medal count measures just that – total medals, and total gold count measures just that. They represent two different measures. Can the US be blamed for using a measure that gives them a better performance index than another? (and that’s not meant sarcastically). Especially when it is in domestic newspapers for a domestic audience? For the same reason, each country favors coverage of their athletes’ successful events.And if you’re looking for a true comparative measure between the olympics performance between countries – well… maybe that really isn’t why we do the Olympics. Maybe it shouldn’t be a big deal.
as a chinese, i show all my respect to all participants of the beijing 2008 games, no matter medalists or not.is it the spirit of the games; to participate! and yet again, we admit that new york times is right about one thing: china is at least on the list.what we talking about is “freedom of lies” not right or wrong.when the yankees want the other way around, they just move the goalposts or rewrite the rules.is it so difficult to be the second best? sooner or later, it’s a matter of time.ny times sucks!
if total medal tally is observed rather than total gold/silver/bronze; does that means a country holding 50 gold medals, meaning 50 champions (with no silver + bronze) is not doing as well as another country with 30 Silver + 30 Bronze (no champions)? then why push the extra mile for a gold?
It is wrong to take into count the total of medals only. Gold has more weight. It’s the champ award. If American press are consistent, they should tell the US athletes not to mind swapping their silvers with bronzes. What is the point of arguing, China will take over the total medal from US anyway before the end of the Olympic.
You play with results to get your country at the top of the table so I thought I may as well point out to our Auzzie neighbours that New Zealand is actually ahead Austrailia of gold medals per population. 3 golds for for 4M people gives 1 gold per 1.33M. Austraila 11 gold for 20M equates to 1 gold per 1.82M. Perhaps you need another rule that you need a minimum of 11 golds to qualify! Anyway well done China you are on top of the only real table.
It is wrong to take into count the total of medals only. Gold has more weight. It’s the champ award.
Lets put a different spin on this. Seeing that budget seems to be directly related to medals won, how much did each country pay for their medals? South Africa had a total olympic budget of $1.15 million and has so far taken a single medal at a cost of $1.15 million. Compare that to Britian which had a budget of $436.8 million and has won 36 medals – at a cost of $12.1 million each! We are beating the pants of them! What has the US, China etc spent? But for what its worth, most gold medals win the games.
Neil – there are those countries like Slovenia who always do well in medals per capita because they have an advantage in that their national sport is an Olympic event giving out several medals while relatively unpopular internationally as a sport.The only fair way is to either go by golds or weight it and congratulate the smaller or less well off countries if they get anywhere near the top. Or you could take all the different methods into account and add them up into a super table. But who is going look at that?
As we British still consider America, Australia, Canada, New Zealand et al just spinoffs of us, surely our medal total must far exceed the Chinese.
Given that most Americans never consider the news outside of their country, they probably think that they are top of the medals table. For shame!Well done China.
Channel 4 News in the UK have a medals table where you can compare both types of ordering, as well as being able to scale the results by GDP, Population, etchttp://channel4.com/olympics
Of course, what we are really seeing is the results of resources. Not to decry the achievements of so many fine athletes but it is interesting to note the relatively lowly position of Germany, for example, whereas the former communist E.Germany was always among the great winners, whereas, Britain, who for many years was just an Olympic joke is now standing the highest of any European nation. Why? Funding. Which, in Britain’s case has been supplied by resources from its National lottery.So the former communist countries are conspicuous by their absence; China has dedicated its resouces for national prestige: the US by virtue of its inherently powerful economy; the UK by National Lottery; Russia as a resurgent economy etc.etc.So perhaps the medals table should be a ratio not against a nation’s population but against its GDP?By that measurement probably Australia would be on top – Oh NO!
Hey – Jeffrey in New York – you’re doing it again (cheeting). You quote the US as coming out on top since the Olympics begin – I think you’ve been looking at the ESPN web site (with it’s US bias). Sure US are top – because they don’t add up USSR and Russian medals – so the US have a 100 year head start. Also, they keep Germany, West Germany and East Germany separate.I can’t wait to see how the US fiddles the final 2008 result when China beat them on BOTH Gold and total medals counts – how about excluding all medals won by non-US nationals ??? that should do it!
Phil,You wrote: “Also, they keep Germany, West Germany and East Germany separate.”That’s hilarious. WE keep them apart?! Um … tear down that wall Mr. Gorbachev? Ever heard of that? Berlin airlift? I lived in Berlin before 1989 and I can assure you that it wasn’t the Americans keeping East and West Germany apart.I guarantee that the Americans will come out on top with total medals by Sunday — and China will not have a single track and field medal. They’re pretty good at ping pong, badminton, and trampoline, though. Oh yeah, China is a major sports power. Heh heh heh. Well, just the same, congrats to the Chinese for putting on a very enjoyable Olympics.Any way you want to look at it, the US has been and will continue to be the dominant, all-around sports power. How many medals did China get in Turin two years ago?People, let me repeat. If you want to talk about numbers, let’s REALLY look at them. Over TWO THOUSAND MEDALS for the US. No other country comes close.
Phil,Look again at my chart. It absolutely includes the Soviet Union and the short-lived Unified Team statistics. No matter how you cut it, the US has more medals BY FAR than any other country over the last hundred years. Can’t handle the truth? You wouldn’t be the first.Since the beginning of the Olympics, the US has won:Gold: 897Silver: 693.5Bronze: 606.5TOTAL: 2197The closest country is the old Soviet Union/Unified team with 1112 total medals. We have TWICE as many medals our closest rival (who no longer exists).Here’s another measure of dominance. If you add the 2004 Summer Olympics and the 2006 Winter Olympics together, the Americans exceeds any other country by a wide margin:2004 Summer Olympics (rank #1)G(36) / S(39) / B(27) total: 1022006 Winter Olympics (rank #2)G(9) / S(9) / B(7) total: 25That’s 127 medals for the combined summer and winter Olympics. Compare that with any other country and you’ll simply have to bow down to our hegemonic stranglehold on competitive international sports.Yanks rule. Deal with it.
No! Really? The US media portraying something that is different to the reality?When I watch US news shows, the reporting amazes me, it’s bordering on the hysterical in it’s outlook. No doubt geared up to validate political motives.So why shouldn’t the media show the medal table as being weighted towards US glory, seeing as how it is already a long way down the road to propaganda ville.The US is a very strange beast in that its citizens increasing isolationism is a direct result of its foreign policy, and the media has been instrumental in bringing this about.Look at how commentators here are talking about domination and power, which is quite incredible when the US is the fattest nation on Earth.
Is the USA that unsure of itself that it has to be top of everything??The Official IOC medal table takes golds above silver or bronze and it is absoloutly absurd to do it another way just so that you come out top!I think the USA have got to face it that they are no longer producing the best in the world proven by Jamaica in this Olympics and start playing by everybody elses rules.They are as bad as China by not having the real girl sing in the opening ceromony, not deeming her ‘pretty’ enough. Both are trying to be perfect which will never happen.
Jeffrey, US has, is, and will almost be a giant sport nation. That no one can and will deny. The fact US got over 2000 medals in summer olympics is an amazing achievement.However, trying to compare those numbers to a rival (as you said) no long exist is just pathetic. USSR had being through two world wars (as in the battles were actually fought on their land and their infastructures getting destoryed), ceased to exist for 4 olympics (out of 29) and trying to say we are better. Comparing it to China is even more ridiculous as that country suffered through foreign invasion (btw, US is one of the country invaded) and rebuilding and they didn’t even start competing in 1984! If you really want to compare, why not compare the total medals won by US and USSR between 1948 and 1992 and see which country has more since that’s when the rivalry really occurred anyway.The funnies part in your post is you try to prove US is a strong sports nation, which if you actually read the comments, nobody disagreed. The topic is mainly on how the medal table of THIS olympic should be ranked (not for past hundred years).
Jeffrey in New York :1.china did win a track and field medal yesterday.and i know it’s not the last one.and btw, how many golds the US won in the track and field events, excluding that fat discus woman?u tell with numbers not by the USy common sense, which normally goes wrong.and u know, china did get a gold in sailing, maybe ,ur espn didn’t tell u that.and today, our team will beat the US beach volleyball team, this time i will cross my fingers.2.by what means u garantee the US would’t be the second best,by crossing ur fingers,i guess.dude,we’re got to be honest with ourself.3.to all americans: being a loser is not a sin, telling false stories and invading irag for oil is.we’re through taking moral lessons from the US, will u shut up and pack up for the next game in ur 52th state–the tiny island follower of urs.forgive my french!
Lucy,The US never invaded China during the 100 years of the Olympics. In WWII the US and the Chinese were allies. Many Americans died to remove the Japanese from China. How were we thanked? More Americans died when the Chinese fought with the North Koreans in the Korean War. I’ve traveled through China and find its people today to be reasonable, hard-working, and optimistic about the future. This is all good. I see only positives coming out of their hosting the Games this year.
“Chinese,”I’ve met some very interesting Chinese, both here in the States and in China. You’re not one of them.You wrote: “will u shut up and pack up for the next game in ur 52th state–the tiny island follower of urs.forgive my french!”I’m sure the Brits on this page will appreciate your characterization of their country.The Chinese are thinking about trying to put a Chinaman on the moon — uh, we did that FORTY YEARS AGO. Heh heh.
to lucy:the US did invade china with other 7 countries in 1900, fours after the first olympic games in 1896.and the US made a fortune out of it.obviously, ur history book didn’t tell u that either.well, u’re right, the US did help us in the fight against the japs. and u failed to mention we did fight two wars : korea and vietnam, the two neghbours of china u invaded. as a matter fact,u really should learn more about ur counry, lucy. on offence.
Hang on folks! The tone suggests something beyond patriotism – nationalism! Look back to 1936 to see where that got the Olympics.
Jeffrey:when u use the term chinaman, u did offend 1.3 billion chinese. u meet some very interesting chinese, really? and if dare to use that term in my face, i’m sure that be one of those last words of urs.challenge me with facts not by the USy foolishness.if i’m wrong about ur little brother, tell me it’s not.and are u sure the US did go to moon? yes u did, and u will.that’s wont’ bother me at all.u’ve done a great job, and i will give u 20 moon gold medals to catch up with the chinese.and a reminder, shall u use the word again, u’ll be such a deadman.
Come on people! All of you should publicly apologise to each other on this blog site and get back to talking about the subject, the medals table, and abide by the Olympic spirit. Btw – everyone says that coming third doesn’t count – the Brits seem pretty pleased with their ‘bronze medal’ position in the table
Chinaman,Hey, I thought the Chinese didn’t fight in Korea and Vietnam. That’s what Mao said. Jeez, could the Head Chairman Chinaman have been lying? And what’s wrong with “Chinaman”? You can call me Yank or Yankee, if you want. It doesn’t matter. Don’t worry, I will never call you “chink.”Phil, Chinaman called your home a crappy little island that is the 52nd US state. What say you?
Chinaman,The best thing about the West invading China back then was that the Germans taught the residents of Qingdao how to brew beer. I sucked down quite a few bottles of Tsingtao while traveling around China.*burp*
hmmm….tastes of sour grapes all round. Just for convenience and common sense, it is seriously much easier to view and make sense using the gold medals tally.
To Jeff from New York -Dominance? you sure? Let’s play by your rules then. Can you give me an accurate count of gold medals awarded during ancient Greek times (who STARTED the whole thing)? If not, stop yucking away about total gold. Totally without credibility.
I can give you an accurate count of the 700 years of Ancient Greek gold medals:0That’s right. The prize was olive oil and a wreath of leaves.Why don’t you all check wikipedia? It explains quite nicely. A per capita gold medal won’t work because it skews everything and believe it or not, there is a limit to how many athletes a country can send.A historical count won’t matter either because the U.S. has a huge head start. The USSR competed from 1952 to 1992 and the Chinese only started on 1984.Chinaman is an offensive term. Yankee isn’t (or why would the NY baseball team call themselves that?) Please refrain from flaming.
Being the good Canadian that I am, let me propose that we all take a deep breath and start to compromise. We have heard strong arguments from both poles: only gold, and total medal count. Now let’s meet in the middle, and do it my way!Gold 3, Silver 2, Bronze 1Jim from Vancouver – see you in 2010!
The medals list of NY Times expose the mind of American that they are afraid to lose the first position that come from some last olympic games.and show that their mind of afraid china’s strong more.and the medal list of NY times is the bronze list.I have no said.
Phil Styles is right.i was away from the subject.gold medals count, while silver and bronze do matter.and it’s my belief that the US is the sports superpower, no matter how many golds they get in beijing.china is doing great in certain areas,such as weightlifting, diving, pingpong,badminton,gymnastics,but we’re far behind in foodball,basketball,swimming ,track and field.the gold medal table does not tell all the stories.when i was offended the ny Jeffrey sucker, i resorted to flaming by saying the UK is the 52nd state of the US.i did not mean to say that.for that i’m sorry. however, we should condemn jeffrey from ny for using insulting word-”chinaman”.trust me, he did piss me off.
To Z: thanks for the correction CLASSICS MAJOR… (like i don’t know what wiki is… sheesh) HOWEVER, before u even comment on anything y not check to see which side of the debate I am on (and you are on)? You just failed your paper man, for1. not even clear what you/others are talking about2. use wiki as ur reference3. too dense to understand SARCASMHAHA
Martin, thanks for your Channel 4 site http://channel4.com/olympics giving everyone a hugely helpful way to explore fairer Tables ordered by Population/GDP etc.. Their ‘Table of tables’ diplomatically currently shows China/US exactly equal! (at 14th)