Comments on: The “seagull” citizens of anywhere http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2011/10/07/the-seagull-citizens-of-anywhere/ Sun, 28 Jul 2013 14:34:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: Banjes http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2011/10/07/the-seagull-citizens-of-anywhere/#comment-2094 Mon, 10 Oct 2011 12:45:41 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1339#comment-2094 As countries assimilate into a fairly homogenous global culture, where does that leave humans? Culture has always been (for the most part) markek by distinct, differentiated, unique attributes of each cultural segment in the world. As culture becomes homogenous then so do humans it stands to reason- entities without unique identity, tradition, symbols of meaning and importance. And what becomes of the human experience as unique culture is lost? Is losing unique culture positive? Maybe it doesn’t matter at all perhaps? Much to ponder about the impact of this homogenization of humans globally alluded to in the content of the article.

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By: neueschopfung http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2011/10/07/the-seagull-citizens-of-anywhere/#comment-2093 Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:54:18 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1339#comment-2093 Whilst an individual maintains and carries an inherent sense of their national identity with them, they will inevitable migrate in that identity towards the culture(s) into which they are integrating and therefore, away from the traditional cultural references that underpin their original nationality. This can be as problematic as it is creative, leading, ultimately, to a sort of collective National identity crisis of the kind that some countries are already experiencing. It is certainly true that an import of experience is culturally enriching ( I think of artists like Talvin Singh, Kader Abdolah or Nitin Sawhney as I write) but it can also then be culturally problematic, creating a cultural dissonance in which those traditional references and histories are no longer sufficient to maintain a national identity, in the nature of which the conservative element of any nation seeks to enforce and maintain. This phenomena is here to stay.How do we respond? I would emphasise the need for accomodation and ‘the stretching of the concept of citizenship’ as mentioned in the article but question the idea that it is a win-win scenario as naive. Migration has historically always brought problems hand-in-hand with benefits. Having lived in 2 countries and visited a few others I have witnessed and lived with these issues.

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By: ARJTurgot2 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2011/10/07/the-seagull-citizens-of-anywhere/#comment-2092 Sun, 09 Oct 2011 16:47:05 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1339#comment-2092 There has always been a globalization of talent, in its various forms. Reference Xenophon’s Anabasis, for an interesting start on the globalization of military employment, apropos up to including Blackwater. Proceed through Pliny and Livy, turn leftish at Cicero, and head forward to Erasmus, pausing briefly to watch Italian Columbus demonstrate deep ocean sailing techniques for the Spanish. Sum? People get around, always have, I’m not even sure it’s on a larger scale today, than past.

BUT you are even more dead wrong on what constitutes the real cultural elite today. It’s science honey, not tacky little money changers, and it’s been that way pretty much permanently. My reading of history teaches me that there is always a Low Culture, and a High Culture at work in every society. Always. In the contemporary environment high culture takes Evolution as a given, and uses it to create a world view. Low culture America struggles with that. Least you turn that into American bashing, think about the level of abysmal ignorance that exists in villages in Yunnan, Delhi, or the east side of the Dnieper.

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By: Gillyp http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2011/10/07/the-seagull-citizens-of-anywhere/#comment-2091 Sun, 09 Oct 2011 09:13:29 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1339#comment-2091 While the Seagulls fly the earthbound masses have been raped by globalization, If the seagull don’t develop a social and moral conscience they may find the masses gate crash the party and it wont be pleasant.

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By: bashudev http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2011/10/07/the-seagull-citizens-of-anywhere/#comment-2090 Sun, 09 Oct 2011 09:06:02 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1339#comment-2090 i am regular reader of cristia. she rightly caugh the crux of immigrant psychology and relate with economy accordingly.

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By: txgadfly http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2011/10/07/the-seagull-citizens-of-anywhere/#comment-2089 Sat, 08 Oct 2011 23:07:53 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1339#comment-2089 When US Citizens are free to be seagulls, then maybe we can have more tolerant attitudes. But for now, US Citizens are the property of the State. Wherever on this planet we go, we are subject to US law, not just local law. And in conflict between US and foreign law, US law always wins. We are not even free to renounce our citizenship and leave. Currently, after renouncing citizenship, the US claims the right to tax your earnings for ten years. Assets in the US must be liquidated and taxed as well, involuntarily. This is an Exit Tax.

Why such harsh laws for leaving “The Land of the Free”?? Because it is not a free country. Just having the police headquarters in your country does not make it a “free” country. If you are not free to leave, how can you claim to be a haven of freedom? You cannot. We have our own “wall” keeping people inside involuntarily. We do not have freedom of movement.

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By: eleno http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2011/10/07/the-seagull-citizens-of-anywhere/#comment-2088 Sat, 08 Oct 2011 15:26:44 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1339#comment-2088 The older I get the more convinced I am that the elites and chattering classes have a mental defect – not that they are stupid, but rather that they simply don’t think things through. They lack perspective.

They gather at places like the Banff conference and persuade each other of one or other new notion. And it becomes fact (in their eyes).

I am one of these ‘new’ travelers. I work in specialized software development and have lived in the UK, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, India and Canada. And sure you keep in touch via Skype and iPhone, but truth is you are subjected to the reality of the here and now. The issues of where you live at any point in time.

And sure I reach out to people and organizations from my ‘home’ country, but it is not – as Freeland suggests – a reason for different view of citizenship. And sure you may inhabit a cyber world so a country can view its citizens as part of a social network. But food and housing and life is local. And if I murdered someone or committed some other local crime the fantasy social network would suddenly evaporate. I have to deal with local law.

In other words local matters more than ever in a world of change.

But this is all much ado about nothing. There are 7 billion people on earth. If there are 70 million people more move for work (and I include groups like the workers from the West coast Indian area of Mangalore who do the work in the Middle East) it is a lot.

That 1% of the world’s population. And therein lies the the problem with the chattering classes. They can’t do arithmetic (or math to the Americans). They are not numerate and therefore cannot assess the scale of their idle utterances.

They draw sweeping conclusions from a tiny portion of the human race. And see big trends that don’t really exist. In the future with communication improving there is likely to be less costly travel and more working from home. In other words the trend is staying put. The big trend is local.

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By: amra_bangali http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2011/10/07/the-seagull-citizens-of-anywhere/#comment-2087 Sat, 08 Oct 2011 15:08:21 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1339#comment-2087 This article makes for a good read. Its so very true. I stay in Canada & am working on a project to correct the billing addresses of millions of US customers of a US telecommunications giant. I have never set foot in the USA. I am more familiar with names of small rural USA communities than with small Canadian cities due to the daily course of my work. Similarly my brother who stays in India makes a living by fixing computers of clients in the USA over the phone. He also has never been to the USA. Now its so common to work for clients in a different continent sitting in an office in another continent. We all truly are virtual citizens.

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By: Sully1270 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2011/10/07/the-seagull-citizens-of-anywhere/#comment-2086 Sat, 08 Oct 2011 14:39:56 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1339#comment-2086 Seagull citizens..Sounds like a whole bunch of ivory tower intellectual gymnastics. What’s true for the 1% of the worlds population of business consultants, globe trotting college professors and other wanders, has nothing to do with the the rest the worlds population. The internet and “elightenment” are not going to extinguish 100,000 years of hardwired homosapien tribalism. Facebook social networking is a flash in the pan measured against the whole collective human experience. New Zealand is not reimaging itself, they are leveraging expatriate members of the “tribe” to the national advantage and, being a small country, it’s expatriates aren’t viewed as a threat inside the host nations they’ve emmigrated too.

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By: Grousefeather http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2011/10/07/the-seagull-citizens-of-anywhere/#comment-2085 Sat, 08 Oct 2011 14:05:05 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1339#comment-2085 Are Vagabonds chasing money around the world to be considered virtuous?

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