Comments on: What if Russia and China don’t become more liberal? http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/06/28/what-if-russia-and-china-dont-become-more-liberal/ Sun, 28 Jul 2013 14:34:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: Alex3085 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/06/28/what-if-russia-and-china-dont-become-more-liberal/#comment-10934 Mon, 29 Oct 2012 12:35:35 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1701#comment-10934 The liberal society will always enjoy a couple of strategic advantages over any form of authoritarian regime. These are the advantages of innovation and social progress. Innovation is not something that can happen out of thin air but it pre-requires freedom, democracy and a progressive consciousness.

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By: GarethInOz http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/06/28/what-if-russia-and-china-dont-become-more-liberal/#comment-8156 Sun, 22 Jul 2012 13:28:16 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1701#comment-8156 The trouble is, of course, that the governments of China and Russia see the faults in our system that we acknowledge but dismiss as incidental in a very different light to what we do. They might wonder where the leaders of the world’s major democracies get the right to lecture anyone. The poverty of blacks and slum-dwellers in the US may not have escaped their attention, for all the bleating about equal opportunity, nor the fact that the US economy is well nigh broke and the constraints of transparent democracy make fixing it a near impossible task. The fact that numerous European democratic socialisms are on the edge of an economic cliff might not have escaped their attention. The fact that we Australians are parked on a lucky patch of ground, but our democratically elected Prime Minister is hamstrung with a minority government and personal popularity stuck around sewer level might not have escaped their attention. We are generally freer people, but we have made many mistakes and the leaders of Russia and China may well take the view that their most responsible path is to avoid falling into the pitfalls that western democracies have. They might also have noted John Stuart Mill’s comment that democracies aren’t so much rule by the majority as they are rule by the clever minorities who possess the skills to pull the strings by which majorities are manipulated and wonder if their system isn’t that much different to ours, anyway.

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By: BrianBlanchard http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/06/28/what-if-russia-and-china-dont-become-more-liberal/#comment-8106 Thu, 19 Jul 2012 00:46:29 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1701#comment-8106 Perhaps the best way to deal with authoritarian countries like China and Russia and also third world countries is from the bottom up.

By instituting a formal external system of qualification which I have called EXOREG

If a company or organization wishes to sell a product or a service in say the EEC then a small team of inspectors from the EEC would visit the companies factory or factories offices etc. and make sure that it complied with standards for pollution and energy consumption. The inspectors would ensure that there is a proper health and safety regime in place with workers receiving compensation if injured etc, and that working hours are not excessive no under aged children are employed, proper worker holidays are paid for,and maternity leave given etc. The factory would then be monitored with unannounced visits using local inspectors baked up by EEC monitors, corruption would be avoided by the threat of reduction points or stars similar to the star system used with Hotels throughout the world.

The companies operating the factories or offices etc. would be asked to pay the cost of this supervision and costs of such inspections and would be allowed to display their stars on their stationary buildings and advertising world wide and on the Web allowing consumers to make their judgements.

It would be difficult for the producing country to complain because the same legislation applies to home produced goods within the EEC in most cases and where it does not it should.

This process would be introduced gradually, this would then produce a more level playing field for workers in the EEC producing similar products. It would of course gradually raise prices of the imported goods, but it would also prevent the wholesale destruction of Western Industries and the transfer of machine tools, and production technology which once it has gone is difficult to replace. Whole factories full of specialist machinery have been transferred to Chine and other low cost countries when businesses have succumbed to low cost imports and receivers have disposed of assets leaving just empty shells (i.e. MG Rover cars etc.)with the former products now being imported. This system which could be called;

EXOREG (for External Regulation),

would encourage well run and considerate employers in the exporting countries to prosper at the expense of those companies which continued to exploit their lack of care for their population. If they wished to continue exploiting their workers and careless or corrupt regimes then they could not sell their products to the EEC.

A factory in England pays;

Local council Business Tax (Rates)
National Insurance contributions for the workforce
PAY AS YOU EARN TAX deducted from the workers pay packet before they receive it
Maternity leave for both male and female staff.
Public Liability Insurance (for third parties)
Employers Liability Insurance (for the staff)
Buildings Insurance
Vehicle Tax and Insurance
Fuel Tax
Value Added Tax
MOT inspections for its vehicles
Planning, Building Regulation and CDM Fees if it wants to extend its premises with very strict rules on what can be done
It must also be careful to not discriminate on grounds of disability and must employ without racial, age, sex, discrimination and if dismissing an employee must do so after giving several written warnings and must in most cases pay redundancy pay.

-I have probably not mentioned everything.

What rules apply to China?

There may be many companies throughout the World who do provide good working conditions but how can we know which?

They should be encouraged.

EXOREG would provide the beginnings of these sorts of benefits to workers throughout the World who wished to sell to the EEC.

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By: Butch_from_PA http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/06/28/what-if-russia-and-china-dont-become-more-liberal/#comment-6555 Fri, 06 Jul 2012 00:06:00 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1701#comment-6555 We all live in precarious and limited freedom times.
Russian and China liberalization or non-liberalization is the least of my worries.

Oligarchs are already controlling much of Western societies.

It was funny and sad at the same time to see everyone cheering and blowing fireworks on July 4th to celebrate their independence. Sadly, independence is gone.

The Oligarchs are here and we cannot shake them – They are embedded in our global banking, corporate structure and political system and have complete freedom to move around to what ever country suits their needs – for an opulent life style or for a cheap repressive labor force.

You realize this and dare not go there…..

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By: SamuelReich http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/06/28/what-if-russia-and-china-dont-become-more-liberal/#comment-6300 Thu, 05 Jul 2012 07:38:27 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1701#comment-6300 Fast effective control requires decisions be made as close to the information input as possible without going layers of management to get distorted, debated and delayed.

That means decisions not requiring great technical expertise be made at the local level. Those requiring great technical expertise are obviously out of the political realm.

Therefore, decision making at top by party politicians will limit the growth of autocratic nations.

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By: UauS http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/06/28/what-if-russia-and-china-dont-become-more-liberal/#comment-6130 Wed, 04 Jul 2012 06:09:27 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1701#comment-6130 As they used to say in the former USSR: “First we create our own problems, then we bravely overcome them.” Now it’s our turn to repeat that.

Let’s stick to the basics… Russia and China have two huge resources that nobody else does: oil/gas and cheap labor, respectively. But it’s the Western countries who in the end let Russia and China leverage these resources and become what they are now.

I call it “back side of capitalism”, meaning that the very essence of capitalism – profit and competition – compel Western corporations to ship local technology and jobs to China and, as it happened in Europe, get addicted to Russian oil/gas. In some way, Western capitalism turns its back to itself, or, as they say in Russia, “cuts the branch on which it sits”.

It is also very much so, since neither Russia nor China strive to become a truly capitalistic state. They want to mimic capitalism as much (but not more!) as it suites their ruling elites, both in terms of self-enrichment and keeping the “masses” in check.

The way spurious mushrooms are different from the real ones, the same way Russian and Chinese “capitalism” is different from the Western one…
My two big questions are: are we going to continue blindly poisoning ourselves and do we still have time and resources to recover?

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By: keebo http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/06/28/what-if-russia-and-china-dont-become-more-liberal/#comment-5915 Mon, 02 Jul 2012 18:23:44 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1701#comment-5915 These dictatorial countries will have to eventually succumb. Their peoples and technology will allow no other outcome. This is not a question of the weakness of the current leaders pulling these societies backward.
It is a question of the sad corrupt leaders of today holding back a torrent of human desire for self direction, fulfillment and freedom. The genie has been let out of the bottle and fortunately the ability to communicate on a vast scale will prevent any reversal.

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By: SamuelReich http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/06/28/what-if-russia-and-china-dont-become-more-liberal/#comment-5847 Mon, 02 Jul 2012 05:36:35 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1701#comment-5847 WE deal with how their actions impact us. As for own well being an organization is most effective when decision are made close to where the information comes in. If it goes through many layers of management, it takes too long and original signal gets distorted. Therefore effectiveness required some flexibility.

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By: neahkahnie http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/06/28/what-if-russia-and-china-dont-become-more-liberal/#comment-5838 Mon, 02 Jul 2012 02:22:07 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1701#comment-5838 Read your history folks. Russia and China are not becoming more liberal. Many western countries (the United States and Canada as examples) are becoming more authoritarian.
As far as Russia “becoming westernized,” the tsar of Russia at the end of the 17th Century and beginning of the 18th, Peter the Great looked to the west to bring Russia “up to speed” with the west. His Russia took on the appearance of westernization. Not so the reality. Read the history of Russia. Read the history of Peter the Great. If you think Russia is becoming “more” liberal, you are deluding yourself and looking through a prism which sees all things liberal.

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By: fred5407 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/06/28/what-if-russia-and-china-dont-become-more-liberal/#comment-5831 Sun, 01 Jul 2012 23:20:40 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1701#comment-5831 Sound like smoke dreams to me. I think it is going to go back to where it was and stay there in Russia and China. I expect more purges and lots of people running for cover.

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