Comments on: Globalization, the tech revolution and the middle class http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/09/21/globalization-the-tech-revolution-and-the-middle-class/ Sun, 28 Jul 2013 14:34:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: LysanderTucker http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/09/21/globalization-the-tech-revolution-and-the-middle-class/#comment-11282 Mon, 12 Nov 2012 16:14:52 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1765#comment-11282 This is why those that oppose welfare don’t bother me. If you follow progress to its logical conclusion, then eventually we will be populated enough to require a radical change in societal structure. Farm land and living quarters alike will need to be planned out. When machines and electronics do all the work, it should be considered innovative support and a benefit, not welfare. We should reach a point where everyone is provided for by the technology of all humanity collectively. Isn’t that the end result of mankind’s endeavors? To ease pain and labor?

If, decades from now all we need is 1 out of 100 people working to support all life on this planet then great. Technology increase should decrease the welfare concept and eventually the idea of wages should disappear entirely. But surely the 1 person out of 100 would feel as though the other 99 were getting their undue reward from his efforts. Fine, this just introduces another question, and somewhat sheds light on why the rich are getting richer.

When I say that only 1 out of 100 has to work to support mankind, most people instantly think of 1 person working a 10 hour day and making the wages equivalent to the needs of the 100, which is what is happening now in society. But when you even suggest that all 100 people work only 6 minutes a day and receive their full wage (because machines provide the rest of the days labor equivalent) you get looked at as though you just spoke a foreign language.

The comments above about the impact of the Industrial Revolution and H1B visa’s are excellent also.

The question used to be “Someone gets the surplus wealth that labor produces and does not consume. Who is the somebody?” This was the labor question of the late 19th century. Today’s labor question is really no different except that it’s not direct extortion, it has become indirect through machinery and electronic replacement of labor. The wealth required to purchase the machinery and electronics was accumulated by the work provided by the laborer it replaced. Again, the machine shouldn’t have replaced the laborer, each laborer should have just had the benefit of the same pay for less work. Instead, we have heard a 40 year suction sound of wealth to the already wealthy, making them filthy rich and us dirt poor.

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By: vbierschwale http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/09/21/globalization-the-tech-revolution-and-the-middle-class/#comment-9318 Thu, 27 Sep 2012 18:52:34 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1765#comment-9318 The one thing I never hear anybody discuss is how will the “buyers” buy without jobs that pay better than what it costs to live in their communities.

I’m one of those high tech people with decades of experience, and I can’t buy an interview, let alone a piece of used toilet paper.

Trust me, I’m not alone.

For instance, I found this article yesterday that shows what has happened to the high paying technology jobs and for those that doubt what the author says, trust me, been there, done that, living the destitute life with items I would like to purchase from amazon and no money to do it with, not any chances of a job in any direction that I can see.

As Joseph Stiglitz says in his latest book.

I have been forcibly retired, without one smidgen of income.

Virgil Bierschwale
Keep America At Work
Keep The World At Work

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By: rikfre http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/09/21/globalization-the-tech-revolution-and-the-middle-class/#comment-9294 Tue, 25 Sep 2012 20:44:58 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1765#comment-9294 Dr. Hill,
you are so right, but the way things are being shaped by “outside” financial influence of our political process, your point will be ignored. they like Americans to be docile and ignorant.

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By: BidnisMan http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/09/21/globalization-the-tech-revolution-and-the-middle-class/#comment-9285 Tue, 25 Sep 2012 12:37:00 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1765#comment-9285 I remember twenty years ago my uncle predicting this day would come when machines did all the work. It was before internet and he was really talking about factory automation. What would people do for work, I asked him? “As there will be no work to do we will all become philosophers” he said. What he never said is what sort of philosphers we would become. The possibility is if the trend continues we will all become exact same sort of philosphers that became Anders Breivik (or Adolf Hitler to go back in time). Angry, violent, destructive, retrogressive. Unless we can find a new way to work we are heading for an economic war that pits country against country down to individual against individual. Perhaps the myth of the ‘War of All Against All at the end of time’ is not so far fetched as it seems.

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By: MarkRB http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/09/21/globalization-the-tech-revolution-and-the-middle-class/#comment-9284 Mon, 24 Sep 2012 16:01:23 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1765#comment-9284 The openness of economies is what is driving the destruction of all developed countries middle classes. Homogenisation of a complex adaptive system does not increase total productivity, it decreases it which is happening economically globally now. Obviously increased productivity goes some who actively promote the wonders of the current system, but as far as the developed world is we are losing & losing fast.

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By: riversouth http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/09/21/globalization-the-tech-revolution-and-the-middle-class/#comment-9283 Mon, 24 Sep 2012 03:49:15 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1765#comment-9283 Ok, the working class spending is 70% of the economy. Wages(our standard of living) has been forced down(in real money)since the sixties(experts agree). Now lets extrapolate from these widely reported figures and facts. The economy in the tank because the 1% sent it there by lowering wages to compete in the world economy. i.e. replacing the American spender with emerging country spender.
Where would the entitlement programs be today if we had a modest pay increase per yr. across the last 50 yrs. if the gov. had been able to collect the taxes on those loss wages?
So my point is, this is all orchestrated, this whole problem was brought about by programs to to lower the standard of living in America.

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By: baroque-quest http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/09/21/globalization-the-tech-revolution-and-the-middle-class/#comment-9282 Sun, 23 Sep 2012 21:17:10 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1765#comment-9282 Milner said: “The vanishing, low-paying retail jobs will be replaced by better-paying technology work.”

This comment is comically ignorant. The USA, but also Europe, is busy outsourcing all call center, manufacturing, software engineering, and telephone technical support jobs to India and China. As anyone who pays attention to the monthly jobs report knows, the only jobs being created are low-paying ones like restaurant and *retail*. And Milner honestly believes that, somehow, millions of tech jobs will be created. When we lose even the low-paid retail jobs, so many Americans will be unemployed that riots are virtually guaranteed.

Look at Apple. A relatively small number of engineering jobs were created in the USA, but the vast majority were created in China. And we all have seen how well Apple, and its evil partner Foxconn, treat their Chinese employees.

Too bad Freeland did not force Milner to explain where these mythical tech jobs will come from.

Reenan was dead on when he said “People will find it harder to support a middle-class family.”

Or even lower-middle class.

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By: bettysenior http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/09/21/globalization-the-tech-revolution-and-the-middle-class/#comment-9280 Sun, 23 Sep 2012 21:10:27 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1765#comment-9280 What all these so-called gurus of innovation do not do is to analyse in detail what the history of S&T tells them. In this respect they do not look at the fundamental level and who were the ones whose initial thought started the whole process of creating new technological industries. They all forget the fundamentals. The reason I say this is that the USA and the UK in particular are sat on a creative goldmine but where there is no mechanism in place to release this vital part of all new wealth creation. In this respect the history of S&T tells us that up to 75% of all the major inventions/innovations at the fundamental thought level were not conceived in out Ivy league/Oxbridge universities or advanced corporate centres of R&D but in the minds of creative minds outside these confines.

What they have to discover is that we have a missing level in the ‘innovation chain’ at the vital initial stage that propels new understanding into new global technological industries. The reason I say this is that our universities and corporates have predominantly no sifting system in place that allows the great fundamental ‘outside’ thinking that has changed the world and will do in the future to be released. And where thereafter our world leading universities and corporates can exploit this unique ‘seed’ thinking. For in essence we have the seeds of creation missing within the present thinking. Indeed without this vital incorporation we are basically on a hiding to nowhere other than squandering billions upon billions again into R&D with very little economic return. Unemployment and wealth decline can attest to the fact that our great nations have something missing that we previously had and that is because we have closed the doors.

The USA and Britain if anyone is interested to know has at the fundamental thought level created over 90% of the modern world that we see today, but where currently this latent world changing thinking is locked-in. We simply have to release it.

Don’t believe that our universities and corporates have at the fundamental thinking level the thinking that initially that counts in the global trade world of today, as history says the opposite. In this respect the last quarter of a century has proved this also and where both the USA and the UK have declined at unprecedented rates and where our standard of living is now eroding by the year, giving the high ground to those in the East. We have to stop all this and introduce the creative infrastructure within our great nations where these very special people that will change the future world for us if we allow it, to be identified. These are not entrepreneurs either that piggyback on current knowledge and wealth (99% of wealth that is taken from current wealth through transfer and in reality no ‘new’ wealth is created), but those who initially create something completely new. Bill Gates knows this well and where we are talking about the man who invented MS-DOS, not the man who exploited it (the 2nd stage of ‘new’ wealth creation). Until we understand this we shall literally go nowhere but continue in a down ward spiral of economic decline. Therefore it is imperative that this creative infrastructure at the fundamental level of thinking is introduced and put in place to support our universities, corporates, government and the future wellbeing of our two unique peoples – when it comes to creative thought.

Dr David Hill
Chief Executive
World Innovation Foundation
United Kingdom – USA – Switzerland

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By: watchers710 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/09/21/globalization-the-tech-revolution-and-the-middle-class/#comment-9279 Sun, 23 Sep 2012 14:36:34 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1765#comment-9279 “Globalization, the tech revolution and the middle class”? – Yes, very true, including the editors’ jobs:

Yuri Milner puts on his earphones, at home, with the video camera zoomed right in on his face, he quickly shoots off his words, over the Internet, to the whole world… Several people in various parts of the globe in Chrystia’s ranks started speaking into their voice synthesizer, with automatic language translators broadcasted into their ears, articles or commentaries are formed, and instantly posted onto Reuters’ online services. The whole process finishes within minutes after Yuri finishes his speech…you get the picture.

Editors’ jobs (very middle-class) in the media are therefore eradicated, just like yesterday’s papers, literally. Similar changes are taking place in all walks of life. The only real jobs left are for those whose’ brain children are of robots, robots feeding humans lying on their beds with all tubes and wires attached.

The human race is much more sophisticated and smarter than that, I believe.

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By: flared0ne http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/2012/09/21/globalization-the-tech-revolution-and-the-middle-class/#comment-9278 Sun, 23 Sep 2012 06:51:48 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/chrystia-freeland/?p=1765#comment-9278 According to Nobel Prize-winning economist Joe Stiglitz, we have been suffering through the equivalent of the Great Depression now for four years — back then, it was the transition from Agricultural to Manufacturing economies, now it’s a transition from what, Industrial to Electronic? (“Creative”, someone called it)… It wasn’t the banking industry’s “fault”, not exactly, and we HAVE in fact to some extent recovered from THAT, we’re just back to the same “unhealthy economy” that was “pending” before the collapse in 2008.

Robotics are soon to drive “on-shoring”, but middle-class blue-collar jobs are going to be scarce; as soon as robots can pick up a 130 pound randomly-oriented package HERE and put it over THERE, moving one every three or four seconds, we’re going to see tens of thousands of people who are currently working (for FedEx, UPS, USPS, distribution centers all over the country) get laid off. In the next year or two.

So being told that we’re due to lose 40 million jobs in the retail sector over the next twenty years — yeah, that sounds about right. If you haven’t sat down with your significant other and/or your teenager(s) and laid out the probable future of employment yet, it is definitely time to cut through any fantasies of “easy street” and “middle-class” ease. If there isn’t some technology in your family’s future, that future is seriously looking pretty bleak. And if you ignore the changes happening right now, “bleak” is going to look good in comparison (except you won’t be able to afford to contemplate the distinctions).

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