Comments on: Detroit, decay and solidarity http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/2013/07/31/detroit-decay-and-solidarity/ Wed, 07 Oct 2015 17:23:32 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: dungeondevil http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/2013/07/31/detroit-decay-and-solidarity/comment-page-1/#comment-1501 Fri, 30 Aug 2013 15:33:49 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/?p=525#comment-1501 In reply to Peter Murphy.
The U.S. buyer abandoned the Detroit Auto makers because they were fed up buying poorly made product. Other than the light truck market, this problem still exists to this day.

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By: tmc http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/2013/07/31/detroit-decay-and-solidarity/comment-page-1/#comment-1448 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 15:38:35 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/?p=525#comment-1448 @COIndependent, again I agree with you. The bankruptcy should continue. The unions and pensioners should take their cuts. But I agree with Mr. Hadas that after those things occur, the people left in that city should be helped. We all should be part of doing that. So I would say that county, state, and federal assistance be brought to bear to get the city back into a safe, reasonable place to live that can support itself. Just punishing the investors isn’t enough. We should not punish the people. Yes, a few of them voted, but did it really matter?

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By: COindependent http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/2013/07/31/detroit-decay-and-solidarity/comment-page-1/#comment-1447 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 13:33:10 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/?p=525#comment-1447 Yes, we can leave them to their own issues–that is specifically what bankruptcy laws are designed to do. Bankruptcy allows them to restructure their debts and restructure their business practices to reflect their reality.

Granted, there are numerous cities and states that will have to endure the same process, notwithstanding the fact those same cities and states have literally ignored the problems for years.

Only by holding the states and cities accountable will the problem get fixed. If the feds (you and me) pick up the tab for one city they will have to do it for all–you’re talking trillions of dollars here, which we do not have.

The debt- and bondholders, who made the decision to invest and took the risks will be hit first. Granted, the pension beneficiaries may take a reduction, but that’s better than getting cut out completely. When you have 40%+ of your annual budget funding past workers, you have a problem that has to get fixed. It’s harsh, but they cannot avoid what has to be done. California, Illinois, Los Angeles and Chicago are next–they can no longer ignore the obvious.

Yes, it will result in a lot of angst among the cities, states and the unions. But they have, again, known for years that their obligations were underfunded and their pension plans were unsustainable. Logical place start is to have the pensioners pick up more of their health insurance costs and limit their COLA increases.

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By: colsa2 http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/2013/07/31/detroit-decay-and-solidarity/comment-page-1/#comment-1445 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 00:15:38 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/?p=525#comment-1445 I don’t know what “solidarity” is but it sounds Euro.

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By: colsa2 http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/2013/07/31/detroit-decay-and-solidarity/comment-page-1/#comment-1444 Mon, 05 Aug 2013 00:14:37 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/?p=525#comment-1444 “Metro Detroit should look after the distressed city, much as a parent should look after a wayward child.”

This is code speak for white suburbanites should help out urban blacks like they are wayward children who can’t look after themselves. You’re not fooling anyone. We know what white flight is… a lot of us were there when it happened.

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By: tmc http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/2013/07/31/detroit-decay-and-solidarity/comment-page-1/#comment-1443 Sat, 03 Aug 2013 22:18:15 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/?p=525#comment-1443 I do understand your point. I don’t like helping those that won’t help themselves either. The problem in Detroit though, is going to spread. Other cities will follow in it’s path. Maybe not as bad, but bad enough. We can’t afford to just walk away from them even though we feel we should. If we were to do that, the decay would continue to spread, animosities would grow exponentially, and the stability of our nation may even be threatened. Also I think Mr. Hadas is a very good person. Thanks for your opinions an I do look forward to reading them. Perhaps I should not have been so harsh myself.

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By: COindependent http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/2013/07/31/detroit-decay-and-solidarity/comment-page-1/#comment-1442 Sat, 03 Aug 2013 15:40:37 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/?p=525#comment-1442 @TMC Your confusing common sense with being charitable. Common sense demands that you do not throw capital/wealth at a hopeless cause. Detroit needs to resolve the problems they created and the bankruptcy process allows them to do that.

It has nothing to do with religion or being mean-spirited whatsoever–as each person, including yourself, has the option to choose where they direct their support. E.g. I do not contribute to any fund regarding the well-being of pets when there are children who would be better served. If that makes me mean-spirited, then I surely can live with that.

Insofar as Detroit is concerned, for 40+ years the politicians ignored the writing on the wall. If anything, the state of Michigan might consider suing the estates of each of those politicians and the municipal union leadership who personally benefited, and use those funds to offset the forecast losses to the pension system. But, you and I both know that will not happen–even when considering what they did was “criminal” in bankrupting the city, it was not illegal. So the politico’s and unions get a(nother) pass.

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By: tmc http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/2013/07/31/detroit-decay-and-solidarity/comment-page-1/#comment-1441 Fri, 02 Aug 2013 20:51:55 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/?p=525#comment-1441 @COIndependant, you are not religious in the least are you? Seem to be quite mean spirited in fact.

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By: zuiderzee http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/2013/07/31/detroit-decay-and-solidarity/comment-page-1/#comment-1439 Thu, 01 Aug 2013 15:53:29 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/?p=525#comment-1439 EXCELLENT COindependewnt

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By: COindependent http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/2013/07/31/detroit-decay-and-solidarity/comment-page-1/#comment-1438 Thu, 01 Aug 2013 13:34:49 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/?p=525#comment-1438 This is the same liberal nonsense that I should assume responsibility for the decisions my neighbor makes. So, if I approach my neighbor and tell him he needs to take care of his yard, or pay more attention to his children, or get a job–I’m told that I am impressing my “values” on him and I should mind my own business. The author lives in fantasy world.

If a citizen makes a decision that the agenda of the city council does not align with my personal philosophy, he can sell his property and move to a location more in agreement with his personal values. The idea that a city council makes a decision, I relocate to a suburb, and then I should be expected to bail out that same city council is nonsense. Why does the author believe that I should bankroll poor decisions at either the individual level or within a political entity which is totally the opposite of what I believe? You’re now asking me to fund your agenda.

Individually, I am already bankrolling 35% or more (of a total 70%) of the black children born out of wedlock via welfare. And, I bankroll their Medicaid, Head Start and school lunches. Now the author wants me to bankroll the pensions of city employees who have a better pension plan than I have because of some perceived civil duty?

I already pay state taxes to a government that I don’t always agree with, but to subsidize the corruption and political patronage of the Coleman Young’s of the world, while at the same time they demonize me because I question their agenda, is sheer stupidity. Your logic has no geographical limits–hit the suburbs, then when that source of funding is insufficient, hit the adjacent counties, then the entire state, and then the federal government. From the author’s perspective the sources of funding are virtually unlimited–same mentality is espoused within the Beltway.

This is Detroit’s problem. Allow them to go through bankruptcy and fix the problem. Without a doubt, every one will take the hit (with the exception of the politicians who never ran out of other people’s money). To expect any other community to subsidize the mismanagement of the past 50 years is absurd at best. As a taxpayer, it is unreasonable to continue to demand more while denying me input into how those dollars are spent. If I remember my civics lesson, that’s the foundation of a representative government.

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