Ice Age or global warming?

February 24, 2009

It looks more like an Ice Age than global warming.

There is so much snow in Oslo, where I live, that the city authorities are resorting to dumping truckloads of it in the sea because the usual storage sites on land are full.

That is angering environmentalists who say the snow is far too dirty – scraped up from polluted roads — to be added to the fjord. The story even made it to the front page of the local paper (‘Dumpes i sjøen’: ‘Dumped in the sea’).

In many places around the capital there’s about a metre of snow, the most since 2006 when it was last dumped in the sea. Extra snow usually gets trucked to sites on land, where most of the polluted dirt is left after the thaw. Those stores are now full — in some the snow isn’t expected to melt before September.

But are these mountains of snow a sign that global warming isn’t happening?

Unfortunately, more snow might fit projections by the U.N. Climate Panel, which says that northern Europe is likely to get wetter and the south drier as temperatures rise this century.

“By the 2070s, hydropower potential for the whole of Europe is expected to decline by 6 percent, with strong regional variations from a 20 to 50 percent decrease in the Mediterranean region to a 15 to 30 increase in northern and eastern Europe.” it said in a 2007 report (page 60 of this link).

So people in northern Europe may have to buy more snow shovels than parasols to cope with global warming?

How about where you live?

58 comments

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Well, I am living in the Philippines and never been experience any snow at all here. However, despite our weather which is warm and cozzy, sometimes we still feel above the normal hot temperature especially during noon to late afternoon period. Some other countries experience extremely cold weather and some extremely hot. Do we still need to wait to see a lot of specie/people suffering even dying. Let us act now and show to the world that we can battle this temperature difference. A single pledge/commitment/care will change the world.

Posted by Richard Pausing - Philippines | Report as abusive

It’s ’cause it’s not global warming. It’s Climate Change. Why do people still use global warming, it just makes the public think its not happening when it gets freezing cold.

Posted by Chris | Report as abusive

Good point Chris and I know many scientists prefer ‘climate change’. But I reckon that phrase has drawbacks too, especially since it’s vaguer than ‘global warming’ when greenhouse gases heat the planet overall (even if some places get cooler). ‘Climate change’ can let scientists claim to be right whenever there’s a change, in whatever direction. Using ‘global warming’ at least obliges them to explain things that go against the overall trend — like the tonnes of snow threatening to break my roof.

Posted by Alister Doyle | Report as abusive

I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico where the winter has been a bit mild, though mostly normal temperatures. We had a dry winter – no snow to speak of in the city, but the surrounding mountains seemed to get their normal amounts. I get anxious about global warming and believe it could well be caused by man. However, sometimes I read journalistic pieces that say the planet is actually cooling and that maybe we’re headed for a mini ice age. That’s why I was immediately drawn to this piece about Norway.

Posted by juan | Report as abusive

Using the term “climate change” is essential. The weather cannot be predicted through the week let alone through the century, so specific trend statements and declarations of “scientific consensus” are risky. As soon as the consensus says one thing will happen, the other thing will happen, sure as can be. And there a large groups of PhDs who are “skeptics.” So better to use the term “climate change,” which allows almost every meteorological development to be linked to the agenda. Politically, and in terms of sustaining public opinion, this is far more effective. Focus on the agenda, and use the weather (any weather) ipso facto to drive the agenda. Some of the movement’s spokesman have learned this but not all.

Posted by Gary | Report as abusive

[...] is it an ice age or global warming? Doesn’t matter, because all weather conditions will be blamed on CO2 and Mankind by the true [...]

I live in the center of the USA. It’s a normal winter. The worst wenter we had was in 1982.

Posted by John R Baron | Report as abusive

We’ve gotten record snow on the mountain I live on in Flagstaff, AZ. And in Phoenix, two hours away, the heat in the summer has been record-breaking.
Despite semantics, Doyle brings up a good point: Why are there high-highs and low-lows? It’s alarming and I’m not sure what it means. It’s not the predicted global greenhouse yet, because many regions are defying that trend and even going opposite in weather patterns. Is a new era being ushered in? The UN Climate Panel recognizes this phenomena, obviously, in Doyle’s link above, but we don’t yet have a name for it…or a coherent concept for it.

Posted by Brent | Report as abusive

Here in Bangkok, water levels are rising. The city will be under a meter of water by 2050.

No one is doing anything about it, of course.

Posted by Esteban | Report as abusive

It is not the case of if the world’s climate is changing but more to the point of why. The world has been this warm/wet/cold/dry before. There is a far greater chance that in the next 100 years we will start moving towards another ice age. You do not need a climate computer model to tell you this, just dig enough in the earth’s past and it is there to see.

Posted by Patrick | Report as abusive

I live in skien norway i got so much so i have no place left to put it i had to buy a snowthrower too i never seen so much snow in all my life.

Posted by denver morgan | Report as abusive

Coming from Canada, 1 meter of snow is considered a light dusting. We have been hit with one of the coldest and snowiest winters in recorded history. Climate change data has been updated to reflect errors in equipment that measure both the ice cap and historical temperatures. Glacial melting is natural between ice ages as we are experiencing today. There has been considerably less talk about climate change up here as the economy has a bigger impact on life style at the moment.

Posted by Jack Lord | Report as abusive

I live in Minnesota, south of the Twin Cities and have lived here for the last 15 years. We had the coldest winter I can remember since moving here. Two nights it dipped to 24 below with wind chills in the 30′s and 40′s below. And that was the southern part of the state. If there is global warming a wish a little of it would come our way!

Posted by myra | Report as abusive

Global warming, climate change whatever! Both are totally beside the point! Polution is the root of all the issues. We know for a fact the polution causes health problems and effects our environment. I for one would not be eating the fish from that area of the sea for a long time.

Posted by Jena | Report as abusive

I live in the lower penninsula of Michigan, in the upper Midwest of the USA. It has been an extra cold and snowy winter, and I have serious doubts about “Global Warming,” “Climate Change,” or whatever expression they decide to use next. There seem to be a lot of people making money on this, and few seem willing to significantly change THEIR lifestyle for the sake of this “crisis.” Follow the money and take note of the hipocracy. Carbon offsets are similar to buying indulgences. Even worse, it like paying someone to take your place in a war, and then having the nerve to ride in the hero’s victory parade.

Posted by Tom | Report as abusive

So we have 3 choices for terminology:

Global Warming -yes it commits you to a direction, but has 4 syllables :=(
Climate change – more vague, but has only 3 syllables.
Weather – standard terminology, clearly defined, and has only 2 syllables. I call it the Winner!!

Posted by Robert Konczal | Report as abusive

Global warming is difficult to accept, but Climate Change is? There is science that supports the affect of carbon in the air and the loss of the rain forests as well. The problem is that extremest and zealots get in the way of delivering the message and accepting it.

If I stood up 16 months ago and explained the world financial system was in serious peril because of extended credit, over valued assets, expansion, most would have looked at me like I was crazy, not so much today.

Global warming and climate change will affect different places differently and is occurring. The science points to the use of carbon.

By the way, the reason why people gain weight is lack of exercise and eating.

Posted by geek | Report as abusive

I live in Chicago, the last two years we have been hit with more snow and cold weather than in the last 10. We have below zero tempertures in January that lasted a better part of a week. The last time this happened was 1986. We beat last years smow accumulation by more than a foot and last year we got set a record that has been in place since 1967. Our summers have been cooler, the last two summers never broke 100 degrees and according to the weather channel and channel 9 news the average tempetures in the Chicagoland have been below normal for the last two years. SO When is the Global warnming going to show up….IM FREEZING to death in Midwest USA!

Posted by Bret | Report as abusive

[...] There has been a lot of media speculation that Global Warming is a myth this year since many places were cold.  Check how bad it is in some areas, CLICK HERE. [...]

I live in northern wisconsin, the past several winters have been arriving sooner, staying longer, with more snow and longer cold spells of below zero temps. I too would appreciate any kind of warming, man made or otherwise.

Posted by butch sowinski | Report as abusive

February 24th, 2009
6:08 pm GMT

Here in Bangkok, water levels are rising. The city will be under a meter of water by 2050.

No one is doing anything about it, of course.
——————————————
No one mentions the fact that the city is built on clay rather than bedrock and has also been sinking at a of up to 4 inches annually as its teeming population and factories pump some 2.5 million cubic tons of cheaply priced water, legally and illegally, out of its aquifers. This compacts the layers of clay and causes the land to sink.

So the question is; Is the water rising or the land sinking? Two separate problems caused by two separate things that result in the same conclusion. It will be underwater. To say that it is caused by climate change is at best only half true. But people don’t want the truth, they want to hear that climate change is the cause and rather than fix half of the problem, they probably want everyone to pump money into Bangkok to combat climate change.

Posted by Bill | Report as abusive

Where I live in Ohio it was once under a 100 foot of ice. I’ll gladly take the warming. Climate control… If you can control the climate, I’m sure the Sahara could use some rain. It once had trees and rivers…. etc…

Posted by C Powell | Report as abusive

Well folks, I’m sorry to hear that you’re all so cold. I only wish we here in Australia could share some of our warmth with you, ’cause we’ve got plenty. Our summers have become increasingly hot and our winters increasingly dry over the past 5 years. Some kids in the outback have never seen rain let alone snow.

We’ve just had a heat wave with temperatures over 35C (95F) for two weeks and peaking at about 46C (that’s 115F)for several days. Going outside is like walking into a furnace……..

Posted by Helen | Report as abusive

Ask the year around resident at the Jersey shore and they will say that except for the normal ebb and flow of the tides ocean levels havent changed much in the last 30 or so years. Go figure. Doesnt water seek a common level or does water favor more areas of others?

Posted by JoeS | Report as abusive

During our warming a few years back, we saw strong evidence of warming on other planets in the solar system. The Martian ice caps were receding, Jupiter’s atmosphere became more colorful with higher chemical contrasts, Saturn’s southern hemisphere showed hot-spots, Titan’s atmosphere demonstrated signs of expansion and Pluto’s atmosphere started sublimating earlier in it’s orbit than usual. Mars was explained away by the AGW crowd using hand-waving arguments (oh, things are different on Mars), and they didn’t say squat about the other celestial bodies. The Sun, quite active at the time and exhibiting X40+ events, was completely ignored.

Now our star is in an extended solar minimum, and we are seeing talk of an ice-age. Sounds like we need to investigate the complex relationship between our atmosphere and the Sun by not only looking at Earth, but also monitoring the other planets.

Posted by Roger | Report as abusive

this is a definite sign that the earth is warming, we have a similare problem in yellowknife nwt. when it is extremly cold it is clear weather, but i have noticed that when it is between -20 and -30 it snows a lot, the usual tempurature in the middle of the winter here is between -30 to -50, i think this is what is happening in oslo, it has to be warm enough for the precipitation to form, also the article doesnt mention the tempuratures of the event. i think these people should do more reaserch!
btw i’m a 17 year old high school student (in case u wanted to know)

Posted by rebecca carlberg | Report as abusive

I’m from Belgium and it’s one of the coldest winters in years. Climate change is normal. The problem will be, how to feed the people all over the world. Because of more storms or more dry periods there will be more foodshortage. Maybe we can protect us against the climate change, but the plants can’t adapt to the abrupt climate changes.

Posted by Joe | Report as abusive

We have so much snow in northern New England, there’s no place to put it! The biathalon venue in Fort Kent is LOADED!

Posted by Lietuviskis | Report as abusive

Unlike today, there were no Glaciers where and when Hannibal crossed the Alps, with his Elephants.
I was looking forward doing the same with a pet Hypo, as a celebration, back to the future, some day soon.
Unfortunately there is so much snow in the French, Swiss, Austrian Alps, my crossing has to wait.
And the Mont Blanc mountain actually grew in height so much, due to more ice on the top, that the French school books had to be revised to add a few meters. But I know: It was warm snow. It clings better together, hence the growth of the ice cover.
Not far from Geneva there is a village called La Brevine, not high up, in the Jura mountains, near the French/Swiss border. They even get minus 40 degree C temps and at the same time make precision watches, to boot, and, from all I know, live happily ever after.
The fishermen in Northern France see their boats going up and down by 12 meters, thanks to the moon, the sun and gravity and so on. Tell them, their sea will rise by 3 or 5 cm, over the next decade. They know a joke, but might look a bit perplexed at you, too.
Have a nice day

NB: Why not use some of the IPCC money and the time spent for travels, conferences, hotels, cozy restaurants and all, arguing about models producing fractions of degrees and centimeter changes over the next hundred years and prepare for and tackle some real problems, instead, now? You know like population growth, food for the starving, clean water and getting rid of malaria.

Posted by max | Report as abusive

What will they call it after 2+ years of global economic, and therefore, industry slowdown? If no one is producing it stands to reason that the emissions will be reduced for a time. Yet, the weather will continue in this cycle. We need to keep up with technology to deal with what is today-like cleaner fuels and higher ethical standards do the right thing…to keep people safe in the coming years.
I was a kid in Minneapolis in 1983-84 I shoveled a lot of it-no snow blowers back then in my house!

Posted by t in Portland OR | Report as abusive

We had record snow fall and flooding in washington state thid past fall and winter. But, in my humble opinion, the climate change is merely a cyclical process that occurs with or without man’s infuence. The only option we have is to adapt and accept the inevitable cause change-is-a-comming like it or not.

Posted by stace foster | Report as abusive

Be careful would be skeptics this does require some knowledge of chemistry. I know the idea that such a small shift in CO2 concentration could make such a large difference in global temperature is hard to believe but it is possible.

I won’t pretend to have done the calculations myself so I will not say that global climate change is happening or is caused by this or what have you. I will say that a closer look at the facts will show you that even small changes is CO2 concentration will have a relatively large impact on the total energy absorbed by the atmosphere.

The infrared radiation that contributes a majority of the heat energy in our atmosphere can only be absorbed by certain molecules. These molecules are generally known as greenhouse gases and includes everything from clouds, smog, and water vapor to methane, CFCs, and CO2. Absent from the list are N2 and O2, the forms of nitrogen and oxygen we find commonly in the atmosphere. This is because they have no net charge in their dipole moment and as such are “invisible” to the radiation in question like glass is to visible light. This leaves a much smaller bucket for the CO2 drop and raises a reasonable doubt.

I suggest that the best thing we can do is to study the atmosphere. If we can barely predict the weather days in advance I think it’s clear there is a lot we have yet to learn about what makes our climate tick. I think that trying to use common sense on something we understand so little is dangerous but just as dangerous as crippling economies in some false hope of saving the planet.

I think we all agree that pollution in the air, ground, and water is a real problem but we need substantially more research when it comes to the climate and greenhouse gas emissions. We need more science.

Posted by Jsplawn | Report as abusive

[...] Ice Age or global warming? Or just the Earth being the Earth. (tags: environment politics) [...]

more snow here. we just got 26 inches in western maine.

Posted by deb | Report as abusive

I wish we had some global warming in Buffalo, New York. We are still in one of the coldest winters we have ever had in my lifetime. It’s freakin’ cold!

Posted by Joe Fahey | Report as abusive

If your tired of that stuff come visit us in the mountains of NC. Going to be 60 tomarrow. No Snow all winter. We left the north [Mich.] 45 yrs. ago. Leaving the snow was like retiring. We got used to it in one day. Jay

Posted by Jay Alexander | Report as abusive

“Look it snowed here in Louisiana a few months ago, so you global warming “believers” should revise your thinking and get some of what is called “common sense”.”

Gee, here in Denver area we’ve had temperatures for most of February that are about 15-20 degrees above average. January’s average temperature was 5 degrees warmer than last year. Guess that shoots your “common sense” theory that the entire globe is cooling just because Louisiana is having a cold winter.

“The fact that the average global temperatures have been dropping since 1997 is proof that the average global temperatures are getting warmer,”

1998 was the warmest year on record in ONE temperature record (the CRU). In NASA’s GISS, 2005 was the warmest year on record and 2007 tied 1998 for second warmest. Also, according to the CRU, 13 of the 14 warmest years since 1850 have now occurred in the past 14 years (1995-2008). So, saying that there’s no GW/GCC because we’ve “cooled since 1998″ is like saying that the economy is “fixed” because the DOW was up today!

“Think of this in money terms. If you were paid One Million Dollars per year you just got a raise of $600. Now you are Really Rich!”

If I put a drop of arsenic in a glass of water, would you drink it? If I were to throw just a little bit of asbestos into the air in a room, would you go in and breath it? What about a little plutonium?

Note, I am NOT saying that carbon dioxide is a poison, I am merely pointing out that a substance doesn’t have to be the biggest portion of a mixture to have a profound effect on the rest of its environment. And that’s the case with CO2. It’s the second most important Greenhouse Gas, next to water vapor.

“FACT–our planet undergoes a continuous cooling/warming cycle resulting in an ICE-AGE every 100,000 years”

Yes, that’s a fact. These cycles are called Milankovitch Cycles. However, you’re conveniently leaving out the fact that we are supposed to be GRADUALLY cooling right now according to them. Not heating up as we are now.

“FACT—carbon dioxide increases do correlate with temperature over the millennia…but the increased levels have ALWAYS FOLLOWED temperature increases, not preceded them, and drop off AFTER cooling”

Just because solar warming starts the Milankovitch Cycles, it doesn’t mean that the warming is SOLELY caused by increased solar energy. CO2′s contribution to warming is the result of the FACT that:

“CO2 is relatively transparent to visible light from the sun, which heats the planet during the day. But it is relatively opaque to infrared, which the earth tries to reradiate back into space at night. If the planet were a featureless, monochromatic billiard ball without mountains, oceans, vegetation and polar ice caps, a steadily rising concentration of CO2 would mean a steadily warming earth. Period.”

Source: http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=glob al-warming-beyond-the-co2

“The climate has been changing since the beginning of earths existence. Hot barren wasteland or frozen ice cube, the earth has seen both extremes and everything in between. 99.99999% of these thing happened with out the almighty human to cause them.”

Lamest excuse for being a skeptic ever. “Once upon a time, something caused the Earth to warm, therefore, today’s warming CANNOT be due to the greenhouse effect strengthening due to an increase of CO2 in the atmosphere.” Show me the logic!

Posted by Rob | Report as abusive

“Contrary to the conventional wisdom of the day, the real danger facing humanity is not global warming, but more likely the coming of a new Ice Age.

What we live in now is known as an interglacial, a relatively brief period between long ice ages. Unfortunately for us, most interglacial periods last only about ten thousand years, and that is how long it has been since the last Ice Age ended.

How much longer do we have before the ice begins to spread across the Earth’s surface? Less than a hundred years or several hundred? We simply don’t know.

Even if all the temperature increase over the last century is attributable to human activities, the rise has been relatively modest one of a little over one degree Fahrenheit — an increase well within natural variations over the last few thousand years.”

http://www.winningreen.com/site/epage/59 549_621.htm

Posted by the Paraclete | Report as abusive

The solar connection is confirmed by 10Be data in the Greenland ice cores. Al, naturally didn’t mention that. The 10Be is produced by cosmic rays hitting the upper atmosphere. When the solar wind weakens, there are more cosmic rays. When the solar wind strengthens, there are fewer.

The link to climate is the effect of cosmic rays on cloud formation. Ionizing radiation like cosmic rays produce charged particles in the atmosphere where water droplets will form. This is the principle of the cloud chamber any first year physics student should perform.

Thus, when the sun is more active, there are fewer cosmic rays and fewer clouds and warmer temperatures. Conversely, when the sun is less active, there are more cosmic rays causing more clouds to form. These reflect sunlight and cool the Earth.

Solar radiance does not change much. Look for sunspots. Right now there are none. There have been next to none for about a year. This is a record going back to 1900. The Maunder Minimum, or the Little Ice Age, was a period of very low solar activity and very cool temperatures.

Getting back to 10Be, during the last Ice Age, 10Be levels were high. During the Clovis period, temperatures warmed significantly and 10Be levels were low, about where they are now. Then there was a 700 year period called the Younger Dryas when Ice Age conditions returned and the 10Be levels rose once again. 10Be levels have remained low since that time. If we see them going back up, watch out!

Note that Global Climate Models assume mid-latitude clear air. That means they do not handle cloud formation. While they do consider water vapor as a greenhouse gas, they do not treat the other aspect of water as a reflector of sunlight. These models do not properly predict the Pacific Decadal Oscillation (El Nino/La Nina), and don’t even agree on the predictions.

A more honest leader of climate modeling said that government officials should not use the results of climate models for developing policy. The models may get the right answers for the wrong reasons. That means we can’t say what the causes are, and we can’t say what we should or could do based on model results.

Think how a parabola can be a good model of a cubic equation for part of the curve. However it isn’t a good predictor of future behavior.

Carbon dioxide is not a danger. But it doesn’t matter because governments will ram through legislation to tax it and reduce further impoverish citizens. It’s about power and control.

Posted by Liberty | Report as abusive

Gee, if we’re worried about overpopulation, what’s the big deal about climate change? If it’s supposed to reduce the excess population, then man-made climate change will take care of itself, won’t it? I don’t get why we should be worried about climate change and overpopulation at the same time.

Posted by Glenn | Report as abusive

Thanks for the comments — there seems a lot of scepticism about the conclusions by the U.N. Climate Panel, which blames human activities led by burning fossil fuels for stoking climate change. (And of course piles of snow for a few days in Oslo is caused by the usual unpredictable weather rather than the climate, unless it happens repeatedly.)

Maybe try looking at it this way:

If you were in charge of a government back in the 1980s, how would you work out whether the climate was changing? There was a scare in the 1970s about a looming Ice Age, while other evidence was pointing to a warming impact of greenhouse gases. Or maybe it was all part of natural swings in the climate.
The choice then was to set up a group of the top experts to study all the literature and report back an overview every few years that would be endorsed both by scientists and governments.
That U.N. Climate Panel — the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) — reported in 2007 that it is “very likely” (a probability of at least 90 percent) that human activities led by burning fossil fuels have caused most of an “unequivocal” warming in the past 50 years.
There’s a chance the IPCC might be wrong, but it says that natural variations don’t properly account for the changes. Yes, the IPCC has shortcomings but it’s the most authoritative stab at understanding the chaotic climate system that governments have come up with so far. Its findings were endorsed by governments, including the Bush administration.

Posted by Alister Doyle | Report as abusive

Since scientists don’t know how evaporation and cloud formation affect the predictions -at all- then how confident can you be? Answer: zero. Every scientist will admit they don’t understand cloud formation to any real degree if you confront them to their face. They try to hide that fact of course. Any dissent is quashed and/or threatened. It is fair to say that the climate models, leaving out a great degree of the mechanics of nature, are not something to destroy your and economy over.

Posted by JJ | Report as abusive

[...] Carl Henrik Grøndahl Nå vet hele verden hvordan vi har det med snøen i Oslo, for pressebyrået Reuters har sendt ut en melding fra Aftenposten Aften gjengitt mange steder. Drudge report: “Oslo [...]

I’m no climate expert. I have a degree in Mathematics, but that hardly qualifies me to judge whether or not the changes in our climate are due to natural cycles or are man-made. However, my degree did teach me a bit about logic. At the end of the day all of the arguing and bickering back and forth is stupid.

Whether or not humans are responsible for the current warming trend is irrelevant. What is relevant is that it can’t possibly be a good idea to be pumping as much excess gaseous waste into the atmosphere as we are. Sure, the natural cycles on Earth produce these things, but we produce extra and that’s just not good regardless or whether or not we are causing the end of the world.

Posted by Thomas | Report as abusive

Wisconsin has had a bitterly cold weather. Very few days in the 30s, mostly in the teens and 20s (Fahrenheit, of course).

Posted by Brian in Wisconsin | Report as abusive

It is interesting to do a web search for “historic sea levels” and find that present day sea level is near the low end of the range for our earth. Sea levels as much as 80 feet higher than present have been determined and documented. These higher sea levels resulted from higher average global temperatures and accompanying ice/snow melt. We’ve had 1000′s of feet of ice sitting atop where I live in northern Wisconsin, only to have it all melt with higher temps, and then form again as the earth cooled. These are normal cycles over extremely long periods that result in order’s of magnitude greater sea level change than the foot or so 100-year increase forecast by some scientists.

While we might think we have extremely accurate data, we only have it for an instant of time when you consider the age of the earth. So when we have evidence of much greater natural climate change over a much longer period it seems folly to make costly policy changes with such a limited amount of data and even less of an understanding of what the data means.

Posted by c300man | Report as abusive

Water vapor is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere, accounting for over 95% of GHGs. CO2 comprises less than 0.04% of our atmosphere. The human contribution to CO2 is in the noise at less than 3% of C02 (http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/green house_data.html). One volcano can produce far more.

The recent spike in CO2 can be explained by warming oceans. Glacier melting began around 1850, before industrialization was significant. The Siegenthaler paper in Science mag analyzed Antarctic ice cores and found that CO2 concentration lagged temperature changes up and down by around 1000 years. That means CO2 concentration is an EFFECT of temperature change, not a cause.

See the earlier post for a description of ice core data (reporting 10Be) confirming the role of solar activity in climate change.

Do we want to ruin our economy because of climate change hysteria?

Many promoting alternative energy are actually looking for money and power. Do you want to be monitored inside your home by smartgrid technology? Smartgrid is ‘needed’ to control your demand for electricity during a power emergency. They will turn off your stuff without your permission. A power emergency could be caused by the wind speed driving wind-turbines falling from 15 mph to 12 mph. Smartgrid must be extended into our homes only when wind power is directly connected to the electrical grid.

Smartgrid technology is fine for distribution, but inside our homes it will report what you are using, e.g. how often you flush your toilet. GE, IBM and Intel among others love it because we will have to buy new appliances that are network-ready. With new computer power supplies able to modulate 60Hz power (see Home Plug), smartgrid will put your personal information at risk. Our coastlines will be polluted by tens of thousands of wind turbines, killing sea birds and delivering erratic power at costs far above natural gas fired power plants. Is this the ‘renewable’ energy we want?

Power prices are high because we are running out of efficient generating capacity. Peak power costs drive prices. Fuel costs don’t matter as much. Per capita power consumption has remained flat since 1975, despite using more devices.

Think about this: To produce 10% of electrical power demand in CA, it would take 10,000 1.5 MW wind turbines on 400 square miles of land or ocean. We could produce the same power with natural gas, coal, or nuclear power plants on less than 1 square mile and the power would be available 24/7.

Electricity built the middle class. It can reinvigorate our economy now.

[...] Reuters Environment Blog by Alister [...]

[...] Next, Oslo has a problem: Too much ice: Oslo looks more like ‘Ice Age’; City resorts to ‘dumping truckloads of snow in sea… [...]

i’m old enough to remember the screed over alleged global cooling in the ’70′s, and the solutions proposed were the same as with today’s global warming club: more centralised governmental control, higher prices, and impoverishment of the middle class. same old junk science and junkier politics

Posted by jd | Report as abusive

Whether global warming exists or not is irrelevant.

The more important thing is the environmental components of quality of life – air quality, water quality, soil quality – the things that allow us to survive. We have a duty to ensure that the environment is healthy for future generations. Let’s face it: we’re here for what, 80 years? We don’t live forever, so it can be easy sometimes to lose sight of the fact that there will be people here after us. It’s no different than leaving our future generations with large amounts of monetary debt.

Is everyone going to die if we don’t change our habits? Who knows, but why should we be willing to take that risk?

By the way, shout out to BP. Their research into alternative energy will allow them to persist in the energy market long after their competitors have been vanquished. A message to their counterparts: you’re in the fuel and energy industry, not the oil industry. It’s time you start realising that.

Posted by Xiera | Report as abusive

We had some bitterly cold temperatures last month here in Ohio, enough to cancel school for a few days.

The last warming cycle stopped in 1998.

Don’t you just love how people think CO2 is a pollutant? Hello–that’s what plants use! You tree-huggers want to take CO2 from your leafy friends!

Posted by Alexandra | Report as abusive

The Associated Press came out with a most unfortunate news: the caves of Lascaux, France are being destroyed by a growth in fungus caused by global warming.
It’s truly anedoctical since I’ve always heard, for decades, that the caves were at risk of that very same thing the moment they were discovered and that is why they’ve been closed to the public for many years now. A replica cave been made so the public has a good idea of what the real thing looks like without destroying it.

I’ve also had the unfortunate privilege of seing photos of mountains and glaciers taken in or around the winter of 1919 placed alongside pictures of the exact same places taken around the summer of 2007 and call it overwhelming evidence of global warming.

Posted by Dan | Report as abusive

Folks, this is not about right or wrong, it is about risk averse decision making. We don’t know enough, but do you really want to gamble on that? If you are wrong, we are all screwed. You want to gamble, fine, but do so on something a little less important. As for me, lets reduce petroleum use. I am tired of supporting countries whose youth fly hijacked aircraft into building in my country anyway. Fixing energy would go so far toward fixing trade and much else. Screw the petro nations. Does that at least resonate with you?

Posted by Richard Moresby | Report as abusive

Global warming is a fact. But whether it’s linked to pollution can only be theorized and cannot be proven. But look at it from different perspective. We produce 40% of world’s garbage and pollutant. In other parts of the world, people are FORCED to recycle and reduce amount of garbage. In most asian countries, each household cannot dispose more than one plastic grocery bag size of waste a week. If you have more, you have to pay $5~$10 per additional bag. Everything else must be separated and put into recycling. But here, I walk around my neighborhood and I see multiple 20~30 gallon garbage bags outside each house every week.
We are fraction of world’s population yet produce most pollutant. Put yourself in other country’s point of view. Or is it that typical American attitude of “I don’t care what others think”

Posted by Brian Choi | Report as abusive

Very true. i live in Springfield Missouri in the united states, and we have recently had some ice and snow, and some bitterly cold tempatures. I’m hoping the weather report will be right this time, or I’ll be expecting more snow, like allways. It’s supposed to be in the lower 70′s in temp, so im getting out my shorts! :)

[...] Reuter’s Alister Doyle wrote: “Unfortunately, more snow might fit projections by the U.N. Climate Panel, which says that northern Europe is likely to get wetter and the south drier as temperatures rise this century.” [...]

Dear Alexandra:

Of course no one wants to remove CO2. But if you do a little research, you will find out that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. Which up until now has been a good thing as it makes us nice and comfy here on earth. However, we are now releasing so much of it into the athmosphere that it’s too much for all the world’s plants to keep the levels down to a normal level. That causes abnormal global warming. Nobody ever said we shouldn’t have CO2 at all. Just that there’s too much of it. Maybe if we stop cutting down forests and start planting new ones almost everywhere we might be able to reduce the levels. As it is, it’s going to take centuries at least, even if we stop releasing it right now.

Hope that made things a little clearer for you.

Katja, who also lives in Oslo.

Posted by Katja | Report as abusive

I just think people need to make them selves aware of what is causing our global warming! We have many reasons on why we are where we are and not enough people are doing anything about it. One person will not make a difference but an entire world can! Lets make a difference and learn about the reasons on how we got here!

HAHA…. ah… I really like the idea of a Greener future with renewable technologies.. but its all in good time. Why don’t you explain the other side of the argument? Its really kind of hilarious what man has going on here.Has any one seen stopgloalwarming.com?!?! Its a huge propaganda for one side of the debate and although I enjoy what your goal is I don’t like your idea of putting children on ad’s saying help them before its to late. You are sick.
As a student studying geology I don’t see how man can say I am so full of myself that I affect everything. The planet earth has an amazing ability to heal itself. What is going on right now is a warming period, the sea level is where it was 120,000 years ago. We should invest in development of renewable energies because i agree with recycling, and the idea of “no wasted resource,” but cutting CO2 emissions isnt going to do it.
Has anyone ever thought of how CO2 got here? Volcanism; Krakatoa released more CO2, Methane, and Sulfur dioxide in the Atmosphere than the whole industrial revolution up to this point in time. Along with Vesuvius other volcanoes, there is much more “natural pollution” than people think. We are in a natural warming trend which will only go so far. we aren’t doing anything to hurt the earth besides using its resources. That is why we need to be SUSTAINABLE. there is no mathematical/statistical formula that proves we are causing it happen faster either………. People need to chill…and recycle!!!! haha random fact–(Al gorse mansion uses more electricity in one week than an average American family uses in one year.)(U.S. Energy Stats.2007)

Posted by Michael | Report as abusive

Well Michael your partially correct. The Earth dose have the ability to cleanse itself but the pollution we are emitting is not included in the natural cycle of carbon the earth is able to cleanse and yes this may be a warming period you have to also think that during that last warming period the amount of carbon we emitted annually was about 1/32 of 1% of what we are emitting now and that doesnt even include the unatural chemical we are emitting into the atmosphere, soil, waterways, and eventually the oceans ecosystem which is the main carbon sink of that healing process that you were talking about did you ever think that there may be a limitations on the amounts that the oceans and lands carbon sinks can take. We are perminently changeing the ph of our water and land. heres an easy and bold experiment id like you to try since your so sure were not changeing the atmosphere take a glass of tap water go to you car and start it hold the glass of water up to your exhaust pipe until it turns a funky shade of yellow and then drink it i bet that will change your outlook a little. No offense intended just think about what ive said here.

Posted by patrick | Report as abusive

[...] Ice Age or global warming?   [...]

While there are, obviously, two very strong arguments in the global warming debate, the tie-breaker is the EARTH itself. Our planet is a living entity created by God, Himself. When we humans itch, we scratch. When we’re sick, we vomit out poisons. When we’re cold, we shiver. Earth has similar physical reactions. Point being? Get ready for earth’s reactions, because they are coming. May God help us all.

global warming messes with weather patterns. It is hard to measure global warming because all the temperatures in a specific area show really no pattern. It is the receding ice caps that say it is warming, not cooling.

If people in northern Europe may have to buy more snow shovels than parasols to cope with global warming, here in our place, the government Agencies/officials made an advocacy for global warming entitled “Climate Change” and i think datz a big help to lessen d effects of global warming…I hope dat u will post more about global warming…tnx a lot!!!more power!!!
global warming

Posted by hopeless princezz | Report as abusive

mind cleanse…

Environment ” Blog Archive ” Ice Age or global warming? | Blogs | is an excellent post. But I feel it is missing on a few points….

[...] coverage by acknowledging a typical sentiment of media ‘consumers’. The post entitled Ice Age or Global Warming commented on a Norwegian local paper that reported an increase of snow being dumped into the sea [...]