Harun Yahya’s Islamic creationist book pops up in Scotland

April 7, 2008

Atlas of CreationRemember Harun Yahya’s Atlas of Creation, the lavishly illustrated Islamic creationist book that first turned up in Turkey, then France and other European countries and prompted a disapproving resolution by the Council of Europe? It’s now being mailed to universities in Scotland, the Sunday Herald there reports:

“I find it quite staggering,” said Aubrey Manning, emeritus professor of natural history at the University of Edinburgh. He houses his seven copies in a cupboard in the zoology department’s staff room. “Every academic I know says they’ve got one of those. And it’s peddling an absolute, downright lie…”

According to Taner Edis, a physicist at Truman State University in the US who has written several books on Islam and science, Oktar is “the leader of a small religious sect and an art school drop-out.”

Copies of Atlas Of Creation began appearing in American universities last year. Edis has two in his office. He said they caught academics’ eyes because of their high production value, but also because the book argued for creationism from a Muslim perspective, as opposed to the more widely heard Protestant Christian tradition.

Adnan Oktar, alias Harun YayhaThe Evangelical Church in Germany, the main Protestant church association there, issued a warning last week against teaching creationism in schools. It didn’t mention Atlas of Creation but it’s been reported to have been distributed there.

The mysterious Istanbul writer Harun Yahya (actually Adnan Oktar) is clearly spending large amounts of money sending this unwelcome book around Europe. Where does he get it from?

Since the last time we wrote about Oktar, he has given interviews to several news organisations from Muslim countries. Here’s one with Al-Jazeera (video in Arabic, text in English) and several other news groups.

149 comments

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His books have been available in all the Islamic bookshops I’ve ever visited and you can download some of HY’s books from his website. Their widely read within the Muslim community, and in my experience, usually the subject of vigorous debate.

Yes, I’ve seen them in Islamic bookshops too. It’s the mass mailing part I wanted to stress here. He seems to go country by country, sending hundreds of copies to schools and universities for free.

Posted by Tom Heneghan | Report as abusive

if you consider the fact that his books are distributed worldwide, with a market consisting of 1.3+ billion muslims, and non-muslims – he has more than enough resource to supply every post secondary institution in the world.
as for the comment by the prof. Aubrey Manning regarding the peddling of a lie; with such a statement one must elucidate why they think it’s a lie. possibly present some evidence to bolster the evololution THEORY? But I can say darwin lied and cite unsimplifiable single celled organisms as my proof. And the fact that every species in the world has a distinct genetic code imprinted in DNA so well organized and common to every living thing – why did the codification system itself not evolve? i.e. there is no other solution asides the aknowledgement of a divine creator. I suppose catholics feel slighted when they see that muslims are more vehement at the muslim insistence on not accepting the evolution lie.

Posted by Shiraz | Report as abusive

I have read this big red book and I have to admit that I’m trully amazed by what it presents as an opposition to Darwin’s theory. It demonstrates million year old fossils of creatures that remained unchanged. It is crystal clear to the eye that there have been no evolutionary process as it is propagated in the school books. I am really stunned and got embarrassed for my lack of ability to see such a definite fact till now. I
think the author deserves a huge applause for the courage, confidence, wisdom and intelligence he performs. Sending these books to the countries suffering from the pleague of Darwinism is a nobel and compassionate attitude when that the fight for survival leads many into a life of misery and sadness is considered.

Posted by Keira | Report as abusive

Shiraz, you say “I suppose catholics feel slighted when they see that muslims are more vehement at the muslim insistence on not accepting the evolution lie.” What do Catholics have to do with this?

Posted by Tom Heneghan | Report as abusive

Thanks Adnan Oktar for all his books and effort against darwinism. As we all know that darwinism is the cause of all the wars, disasters in the world, his ideological struggle against darwinism prooves that he is very valuable for all the people in the world. In his book “Atlas of Creation” there are hundreds of fossil photos that are all prooves of creation of God. This fact may not panic some, this may make people happy.

Posted by elmira | Report as abusive

He has written various books on the fallacy of the theory of evolution. His dedicated intellectual effort against Darwinism and materialism has grown out to be a worldwide phenomenon. Quoting from the 22 April 2000 issue of New Scientist, Mr. Oktar became an “international hero” in communicating the fallacy of the theory of evolution and the fact of creation. The author’s intellectual struggle against materialism and Darwinism has frequently been mentioned in such mainly evolutionist publications as National Geographic, Science, New Scientist and NSCE Reports. The English and German editions of the November, 2004, issue of National Geographic referred to the author’s works concerning the Fact of Creation. The following quotation from one of his books The Evolution Deceit was also included: “The theory of evolution is nothing but a deception imposed on us by the dominators of the world system.”
Adnan Oktar says that : The duty of all believers is clear, whether they are Muslims, Jews, or Christians: to unite and join forces in order to establish societies dominated by peace, tranquility, prosperity, morality, goodness, happiness, and security. If we coordinate our efforts for such a pure undertaking, God will give us success. Every believing Christian, Muslim, and Jew is responsible to do whatever he or she can in this respect. Given that they believe in the One and Only God, try to win His good pleasure, have submitted to Him wholeheartedly, praise Him, and advocate essentially the same values, it is only natural for them to join together to fight their common foe.
Jews, Christians, and Muslims must permanently end all of their historical disputes, prejudices, misunderstandings, and conflicts caused by bigotry and intolerance. They must not forget that we have not even one day to waste. Followers of all three divinely revealed religions must accept each other, for what matters most is to point out their common ground and make things easier for everyone, to be constructive and complimentary, and to unite.

Posted by turker | Report as abusive

It is rather telling for me when Turker posting above mentions materialism. The fact is that anti-evolutionary positions which base themselves on the defense of “divinely revealed” religion are beginning from a biased position. Evolution has nothing to do with the belief in Muslims, Christians and Jews in a God, it is simply a scientific observation. As noted above, it does indeed strengthen the materialist position, which is really what is at issue for religious individuals. However, those who “dominate the world” are not materialists. George Bush is an evanglist who opposes evolution and in fact there are no atheists leading any of the most powerful nations. Religion has always served privileged individuals such as the clergy and aristocracy, the status quo and property rights. It is on the side of those who “dominate the world system,” not the common people whom religion is addressed to.

Posted by Roy Fairbank | Report as abusive

Tom,

I know you follow Ali Eteraz’s blog. Check out possible links AE noted between Creationist Christians in the US and Harun Yahya.

Brian Whitaker at the Graun also made similar remarks.

Posted by thabet | Report as abusive

Really great to have a different perspective out.
Darwinism/Evolution should not be taught in schools as a fact but should be taught as a POSSIBILITY, just like the other possibilities like Creationism.

Alas, Man is too arrogant to submit and believe in God.

Posted by Five Times | Report as abusive

[...] Harun Yahya’s Islamic creationist book pops up in Scotland [...]

I am shocked and appalled by the lack of intellectual knowledge of the posters before me. How can you guys link evolution a scientific theory (Theory means the highest order of scientific knowledge) with that of Creationism, and then try an say to other readers that EVOLUTION causes wars… like hello people I can point to nearly every country within the world and show one force that has used religion to justify destroying another. Yet were in the history of man has EVOLUTION been used to kill others.

PS, don’t even try feed me that crap about Hitler being an evolutionist. For one He gassed and killed Jews because when he served in World War 1 it was Jewish officers and the High command who let Germany fall to the Allies. THAT is why he killed them all through world war 2 not because he was an evolutionist. LEARN your history, and for Christ (<- Yes I said it) sake learn some bloody Science.

Posted by Richard | Report as abusive

Before completely ostracizing Darwin you need to look at the times he lived in. The lack of scientific knowledge and the strong and ignorant influence of religon over politics and society. (That still doesn’t happen today does it?!!!). I’m sure Darwin had the insight to know his theories – and being just that – theories NOT fact, would cause a stir amongst certain memeber of society. Mr Adnan Oktar, with his insulting comments of Darwin, I’m sure also had the insight to know his book on creationism would also cause a stir. If people get the impression that the ‘Darwinism’ plague has been pushed or forced upon society, what do you call Oktar and his Oktarism. At the time Darwin made his initial discoveries and theories it was the only way he knew how to try and explain and understand our existence and where we came from. (Not from planet Alpha C – but hey that is possible, for the open minded.) This is what Oktar is doing now. Except Oktar has the benefit of more than 100 years of discovery, palientology and all associated sciences, electronic gadetry etc, etc, to put his evidence forward in the Altas of Creation, against what Darwin had (the Bible). (I’m not knocking the Bible BTW). Of course Oktar’s book would ‘blow’ Darwinism away. How could Darwin compete? At least for some, Darwin’s theories made people notice about life instead of themselves, and continually challenge and seek the truth of how and why we exist. Just because he lacked the knowledge of an extra 100years+ he shouldn’t be knocked for having the courage to search for the truth and challenge the knowledge and ‘primitive’ attitudes and ignorance of his time. How is Darwinism the cause of all wars? There is no logic in that statement and I’m yet to see any written evidence of such. Like ‘Five Times’ said, is there any reason why such a book on creationism shouldn’t be interpreted as a ‘Possibility’ or theory until there is overwhelming scientific evidence to prove/disprove it is a fact – just like Darwin’s theories. Or maybe we should take a trip to ‘Roswell, USA’ to obtain the answers. (For those that are anti-USA, look for your local ‘crop circle’ or crashed UFO….)

Posted by Conscientious Observer | Report as abusive

Hey! What gives? I’m in a major Scottish university, and I didn’t get a copy of that book. Are they avoiding me? Am I being expelled from the inside movement to debunk Darwin, even before I had a chance to join? I cleared all the sciencey books (and even most of the peer-reviewed journals) from my coffee table in anticipation, and still no book . . .

Posted by Mac | Report as abusive

Mac,my friend,you can download the amazing Atlas of Creation for free on the internet.
This is a really work of art,?’ve seen in in my teacher’s office.Not only the pictures, the colours, the quality of the book but the informations inside are amazing. It makes you ask your self, how dare still the darwinists can talk all over the world? Now that this Atlas makes them turn up-side-down!Thanks to Adnan Oktar evolutionnists have no more words to say.I f they had, they should have printed a book like Atlas of Creation and present the so called, imaginary “transitional fossils”.They should have printed at least 100 volumes if their theory is true.Cause as far as the evolutionnists claim, the so called evolution processhas been realised in a looooooong time period, billions of years..Therefor they need 100 volumes at leat to show the pictures of trasitional fossils!!hahahah!It makes me laugh!Cause they do not have one true fossil to make the one single page of a book :)

Posted by Marrie | Report as abusive

Thanks, Marrie. I know I can download it, but you say yourself that the production value of the book is wonderful. If it is truly as good as you say, then it hardly matters whether the evidence it presents in support of a new synthesis of species change is even true. I do love a new book . . . the crack of the spine the first time it is opened, the smell of the ink, turning pages to find claim after claim I just know I will want to believe. And to think that this one book is bold enough, brave enough, and well, just great enough, to overturn 150 years of biological research . . . wow. Just wow.

Except for one thing. It’s hardly anything, really, just a minor point. That bit about transitional fossils that you refer to might need a little revision. You see, there’s this:

Edward B. Daeschler, Neil H. Shubin and Farish A. Jenkins, Jr (6 April 2006). A Devonian tetrapod-like fish and the evolution of the tetrapod body plan. Nature 440: 757–763.

And this:
Gingerich, P.D., B.H. Smith, & E.L. Simons. 1990. Hind limb of Eocene Basilosaurus: evidence of feet in whales. Science 249:154-156.

Oh, and this:
Rose, K.D., and Bown, T.M. 1984. Gradual phyletic evolution at the generic level in early Eocene omomyid primates. Nature 309:250-252.

And, well, you see the point. I keep trying to plug my ears and close my eyes and stamp my feet, but the pesky science just won’t go away. I hope your book makes it go away. It’s really hard, learning and reading and stuff. It would be so much easier to go to science meetings, and if I give a presentation and someone stands up to say I might be wrong, I could say no way, cause God did it. How could anyone argue with THAT?

Posted by Mac | Report as abusive

About a week ago, I received this book too. First of all I got amazed the beauty and the glamour of the book but when I started reading it the inside of the book amazed most. I have been always told that people are evoluotined. I never have thought more about it like a robot. BUT when I started to read this book, I started to think about the miracles that I see everyday. Beside the miracles there are lots of facts that proves evolution is a BIG BIG LIE! When I learned the tricks that how people produce their own transional fossil forms, like piltdown man, nebraska man I just feel really sorry bout them! Its sooo desperate I mean! More than hundred years ago the times lack of science a person whos Darwin made up a story and people believe it. Now Thats ok it was yearsss ago! But in the time the science grew, technology grew! I mean come on! How can it still be thought like this man this so ridicilous?! Darwin said he was sure that the transional forms will be found in time. The %99 of the fossils in the world has been found but still NO TRANSIONAL FORMS?? SO??!!
I think its high time that we should start thinking and seeing the reality! Not the stories we have been told since our childhood.
People who think there is a evolution, I invite you to read this book. IF after this book still you believe in evolution I will jump over a building :) seriously, this book proves the truth! The truth the we are all created. Nothing is coincidence. FE. think of three blocks put together on a dessert. Do you think that it came into as a coincidence. Or somebody put it there? So!
Come On , Let’s give up all the prejudice that we have and the be objective. The truth is everywhere. You will see it…

Posted by Michael Chesquire | Report as abusive

Probably the most humorous aspect of Oktar “brilliant work of science” is that some of the pictures are of fishing lures. After copies arrived in America, someone noticed the pictures looked really familiar. Turns out they were pictures of small fishing lures. So, all of you enjoy the science presented by Oktar. I won’t waste the time of addressing all the other foolishness presented by his “book”

Posted by JJ | Report as abusive

Michael Chesquire:
Take a deep breath, calm down, and listen for just a moment. There are many documented transitional forms. All you need to do is look at the evidence. I suggest you start here:

Edward B. Daeschler, Neil H. Shubin and Farish A. Jenkins, Jr (6 April 2006). A Devonian tetrapod-like fish and the evolution of the tetrapod body plan. Nature 440: 757–763.

That is a paper in the science journal Nature. You can look it up online, or find it in a library. It is one of many hundreds that report transitional forms. They are there. The people who are telling you there are no such forms are lying.

Posted by Mac | Report as abusive

Dear Mac,
I feel just the same about smelling and reading a new book beleive me. You would love Atlas in that way.Why dont you e-mail this request to http://www.harunyahya.org site they will probably send you one Atlas.
About the samples you refer as transitinal forms, it is proved by scientific explainations that they are not. I suggest you should take a look at this link:http://www.darwinism-watch.com/inde x.php You will find a lot of scientific explanations about this subject. I beleive if look at the subject from this point of view, no one can stand up saying you are wrong by saying there are transitional forms.
Boncourage,
Marrie

Posted by Marrie | Report as abusive

Marrie,

Thanks for the reference. But the site you suggest presents a religious argument, not a scientific one. In general, science isn’t equipped to deal with some of the “big” questions that are deeply interesting to humans . . . is there meaning to my life, is there a god, will any part of me live beyond death, and so on.

The issue of transitional fossils has long been settled. They exist. They provide very strong physical evidence that supports the modern view of evolution. Don’t take my word for it; look up some of the papers I referenced in my earlier posting. Read them yourself. Do your homework, and allow yourself to consider evidence that might challenge your beliefs. If you don’t, there is a chance that you could hold false beliefs and never know about it. That would be a waste of time, and life is short.

best
Mac

Posted by Mac | Report as abusive

Dear Mac,
I dont really understand how come you say relegious to the scientific explanations on this site..strange..
Ok forget about it all…It’s obvious you believe in the exsistence of so called transistional forms, I can not do anything about it unfortunately…
But tell me…How can you explain, how can a single proteine be formed?Can it be formed by chance? The scientists say no.(Not me, not relegious sources but the scientists themselves).Robert Shapiro, a professor of chemistry at New York University and a DNA expert, calculated the probability of the coincidental formation of the 2000 types of proteins found in a single bacterium (There are 200,000 different types of proteins in a human cell). The number that was found was 1 over 1040000.110 (This is an incredible number obtained by putting 40,000 zeros after the 1).
So I beleive I have done my homework well all my life. I believe God created everything,every living creature and my heart is full of satisfaction cause sciences proves God as well.
Rgds,
Marrie

Posted by Marrie | Report as abusive

To JJ,
The evolution is such as stupid and easy thing to explain that even a child of 5 years can understand it has never occured by loking at the fossil records..So I beleive that’s why Mr. oktar has used fossil records to explain the truth to every one, including those who did not have scientific educations.And he did it very well.But seems like it did not work for you:) “Tampis” as we say it in French,it’s your problem.No one has time to waste to convince you as well.
regards..

Posted by Marrie | Report as abusive

Looks like evidence points to rampant bioengineering of humans and possibly other species, like the dog and cow (to provide food and companianship). This bioengineering was by some alien species who came here for whatever reason and evidently they did not remain. It is quite possible that this species also was capable of time travel, else why go through the trouble of bioengineering us and then leaving us. However, lets say that for some reason the aliens could not stay, and left a kind of manual for us to follow so that we could stay healthy. Make it a ‘bible’ and make us susceptible to ‘religions’ so we would not ask too many questions. Religions are quite easy to keep ‘pure’ as fanatics will see that this is done. What easier way to keep us from eating an animal whose DNA might have been used to engineer us from chimpanzee root stock…the pig. Simply call it ‘unclean’ in the so called ‘holy book’ and make it a rule not to eat it, as germs habituated to it can so easily habituate to us. It is in our common DNA and that of the pig. No one can find the original bible, nor make any determination of its author(s)…lost in history is as good an excuse as any. But we are talking about new stone age peoples being able to come up with a writing system when they had not done so for hundreds of thousands of years. No, we were made by people, people from another world much like our own, about ten thousand to thirteen thousand years ago, probably somewhere in present day Turkmenistan or the old Black Sea basin when it was a fresh water lake in a glaciated world with low sea levels. No one can find if the so called bibical Abraham or Noah or anyone ever really lived. Even Simcha Jacobovici cannot find the original bible, and he has looked hard for it and has access to sources all over the middle east. The only other possibility is that the original laboratory that created us, the so called ‘garden of eden’, is in a warm place like present day Kenya or the Sudan. Kenyan peoples have the oldest DNA in the world, pointing to a time in our species history when we were reduced to a population of less than a very few, a population bottleneck brought on by the supervolcano Toba seventy four thousand years ago. Possibly our engineers went there to find biologically diverse root stock to create a more viable ‘us’. The idea of using a ‘rib’ to create a woman refers to common recombinant DNA practices. The bible even TELLS us that. Then the idea of ‘other people’ in the world points to unmodified people being able to breed with the new race with the children of those unions being possessed of the new genetic makeup as a dominant over the ‘original rootstock. This is also in the bible when the children of the original ‘couple’ found mates seemingly ‘out of nowhere’. Religious folks of all flavors cringe at questions about this and have no answer. The only question is why the aliens did not stay to take advantage of the labor force they created? Will they return to collect some day? How advanced were they really, as we are even now able to do some of the things that they did?
When we do meet some aliens, we are going to be surprised that they will not meet our expectations of being all knowing. Rather they will be people like us. We might even be able to mate. After all, it is our common DNA. Evolution is confirmed, only it did not happen on our planet alone.

Posted by Skeptik | Report as abusive

Dear Marrie,

The explanations offered by Oktar are not scientific. They do not meet the simplest criteria for science. It is evident that you do not have a scientific background. That’s ok, it would not be a very interesting world if everyone were a scientist. But the criteria for testable evidence applies, whether you are a scientist or not. Oktar’s ideas are . . . well, to a scientist they are the opposite of scientific. I happen to be a scientist, and I teach the scientific method, but I can’t possibly do that for you in a short note here.

But I will try to illustrate one thing. I believe you speak French. In fact, you don’t. You speak Italian. I can show that French words have Latin roots. I can then ignore a lot of evidence that French has developed into a very separate language from Italian. If I do that, then by definition you speak Italian. Now, it would be absurd for me to ignore the history of French, and its separation from the root of Romance languages. Equally, it would be absurd to deny that French is related to Italian. We have to deal with data, with reality, not with how much we might wish some story is true.

It is absurd to deny the clear evidence of evolution. Did you look at the Nature paper I referenced? Read this one paper. You can find it easily via Google Scholar.

Edward B. Daeschler, Neil H. Shubin and Farish A. Jenkins, Jr (6 April 2006). A Devonian tetrapod-like fish and the evolution of the tetrapod body plan. Nature 440: 757–763.

One final word. In another post, you complement Oktar on his ability to convince people who are not scientists. Think about that for a moment. He is NOT able to convince anyone who is a scientist. He is a scam artist. He is selling a story with pretty pictures (some of them are stolen; they are pictures of fishing lures!). He is lying to you.

I wish you the best.
Mac

Posted by Mac | Report as abusive

Dear Mac,
Mr. Oktar is not lying but only showing the truths.My life has changed once I knew his books.He is such a sincere person,it is obvious from his books from the interwievs I have seen on youtube.You may just write Adnan Oktar on youtube search and you will find his interwievs.
You comment in a subjectif way what I told when I said he “explains in a simple way so that everyone could understand”.Thanks to him,everybody can see what a foolish fairy tale is evolution.But also, thanks to him there are lots of scientists who found God.Atlas is being read all over the world.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk  /article673663.ece, or Mr.Sarkozy’s new approach to religion are all the echos…
I know that we wont be able to convince each other.As a Muslim, my duty is to “only tell what I believe is truth” the rest is up to you.One single cell,one single eye or a simple bacteria whip or a fossil of 500 billion years of a trilobit eye are enough for me to know that evolution has never occured.The Piltdown scandal, the Nebraska Man scandal are enough to see the forgeries of the evolutionnists.I beleive that “The only reason that Darwin’s theory is still defended despite its obvious refutation by science is the close link between that theory and materialism.Douglas Futuyma, wrote: “Together with Marx’s materialistic theory of history… Darwin’s theory of evolution was a crucial plank in the platform of mechanism and materialism.” This is a very clear admission of why the theory of evolution is really so important to its defenders.”
I would finish by a conclusion with a paragraph from http://www.evolutiondeceit.com : The conclusion to be drawn from such pronouncements is that evolution is not a theory arrived at through scientific investigation. On the contrary, the form and substance of this theory were dictated by the requirements of materialistic philosophy. It then turned into a belief or dogma in spite of concrete scientific facts. Again, we can clearly see from evolutionist literature that all of this effort has a “purpose”-and that purpose requires maintaining, at no matter what cost, that living things were not created.

Evolutionists define this purpose as “scientific”. However, what they refer to is not science but materialist philosophy. Materialism absolutely rejects the existence of anything “beyond” matter (or of anything supernatural). Science itself is not obliged to accept such a dogma. Science means exploring nature and deriving conclusions from one’s findings. If these findings lead to the conclusion that nature is created, science has to accept it. That is the duty of a true scientist; not defending impossible scenarios by clinging to the outdated materialist dogmas of the 19th century.

All the best

PS1: By the way I am not French but my French is better than my english….
PS2: Did you explain on any of your comments above “how a single protein can be formed by chance” or maybe I didn’t see it :)

Posted by Marrie | Report as abusive

Dear Marrie,

If you think that the Nebraska-man and the Piltdown-man are the only hominid fossils that are ever found, I guess you have to make some more investigations about the subject.

I would suggest this: look what claims are make by mr. Oktar, and next look if they could be refuted at http://www.talkorigins.org/ As far as I could see, Mr. Oktars theories couldnot stand this test.

With regards,

J.

Posted by Jack L. | Report as abusive

Marrie,
Do you have any idea how dangerous it can be to follow the words of a charismatic person? Unless you actually study biology yourself, it’s insane to take the word of a religious figure on the reality of biology.

You refer to the dogma of the 19th century. Let me ask you this: Can you imagine a physicist saying he only knows about Newton, but not the work that has taken place since then? Would you want your doctor to follow Hippocrates, but ignore modern medical knowledge? Marrie, no modern biologist works within a purely “Darwinian” framework today. Darwin’s ideas got some important developments going, but if he were here today, he wouldn’t recognize the field of biology.

Nobody in biology today thinks a protein could be formed by chance. To understand how a protein came to be, it would be necessary to know what it’s environment was like, what kind of selective pressures were present.

Finally: Materialism is a methodology, not a philosophy or world view for scientists. Science can only talk about claims that it can test. If the claim is that “god did it” then science is simply silent on that issue. It might make you feel nice to think god is so generous, so thoughtful, so concerned for your personal well-being. That’s fine, maybe you derive a lot of satisfaction from your beliefs, and I would not want to take that away from you. But if our goal is to understand a biological process, we must rely only on material explanations. If we allow “god did it” as an explanation for some biological detail, then we have nothing to help us understand the actual mechanisms at work. We would have no hope of developing new drugs, of curing disease.

The only one here who is clinging to outdated dogmas is Oktar, who wants you to follow a medieval philosophy that stops all enquiry and requires you to believe him, without any way to independently test his claims.

Posted by Mac | Report as abusive

Dear J,

Nebraska and Piltdown are few exemples that came to mind mind at that moment. I know much more examples about it.(Ota Benga,Lucy,…and so on..I have no place and time to write&explain them all…)
Thanks for the link.I’ll take a look at it offcourse.
Why don’t you take a look at this one : http://darwinismrefuted.com/ To my point of view, Mr. Oktar’s explanantion are much more than satisfying.
Rgds,
Marrie

Posted by Marrie | Report as abusive

Yes, i saw this book in our school library, too. It was wonderful. I read this book and other books of Harun Yahya and i am still reading. and visited http://www.harunyahya.com . his works are really wonderful. I recommend everyone to see his web site and read his books.

Posted by janny | Report as abusive

Dear Mac,

The proves Mr Oktar is presenting in his books are recent examples. I see that you did not visit http://www.darwinism-watch.com/index.php
Maybe I am not a professional sceintist but a real scientist Francis Collins could turn to God and find God in the laborotary.So does he refer to dogmas of 19th century? I don’t think so…There are lots lots of scientists who do not believe in evolution. But they approve the Creation.
Do not worry, science proves creation very well and I have strong reasons (? could only mention few in these comments) to beleive that evolution can not create any living being.
Yes Mr Oktar is charismatic you’re right (I did not tell this but you did :) ) but this is not reason why I support him. I wish you can read all of his books carefully and understand what I mean.
Take care

Posted by Marrie | Report as abusive

Janny, can you tell us where your school is and whether it is a Muslim school? It seems that many schools in Europe — state schools, for the most part — confiscate the copies when they arrive and don’t let them be put in the library for all to see.

Posted by Tom Heneghan | Report as abusive

I read all comments.I surprised because i see that there are some people still belive in evolution.i want to start from begining.From the Big Bang..

According to the Big Bang theory, everything began from the explosion of a point of infinite density and zero volume. As time passed, space expanded and the gaps between heavenly bodies grew.

The findings in question confirmed the Big Bang theory, which states that the universe began from the explosion of a single point of zero volume and infinite density some 14 billion years ago. This theory has constantly been confirmed by tests consisting of decades of astronomical observations, and stands unrivalled on the most solid of foundations. The Big Bang is accepted by the great majority of present-day astrophysicists, and constitutes scientific verification of the fact that God created the universe from nothing.

Hey evolutionists, i want to ask something to u! How do u explain the Big Bang ??

Posted by David | Report as abusive

Tom Heneghan, are you a student? if so, didnt you see this book in your library? i heart from my other friends that, they saw this book in their libraries or in their teacher’s room. they said that even their evolutionist teachers dont get out this book from their room. they keep it. and this is evidence that this book is too much affective.

Posted by janny | Report as abusive

to Mr. Mac,
First of all, i will send you a copy of Atlas of Creation, if you would like to send me you mailing adress. I believe that if you read the book by yourself, you will have satisfying answers. My mail: youarecreated@yahoo.com

Secondly, Islam never forbades scientific evidences or researches. Despite, it courages thinking and searching. This is adviced in several verses in Quran. And I’m a molecular biologist and a Muslim, thanks to Allah.I do serching and will do as long as I live.

As you should know, wisdom is different from intelligence. When they are together, knowledge becomes the most powerful force in the world. This is like, Wernicke’s(22) and Broca’s(44) areas in brain. Broca helps motor talking, Wernicke helps to talk with thinking. Science is the motor part of understanding, without religion you can not think about it deeply. Because this percet order didn’t happen as a result of blind chance. All of them are created. Like you and me…

Islam brings deep thinking to science. And there is a verse about it in Quran, “And such are the Parables We set forth for mankind, but only those understand them who have knowledge.”(Surah Al-‘Ankabut, 43)As you see,
knowledge is important.You can see knowledge in every letter of Altas but you can also see wisdom. This is why, they have tried to forbade Atlas. Because it is telling the truth. If you search the pages of Atlas, you can see that each scientific explainion has a scientific source. Why didn’t they make another book to answer Atlas? Because they can not, it is realy scientific..And it is true…

Also I have searched by myself for DNA, like Collins. And there is no evidence for Evolution, and never will be. Evolution is just a deception for people to prevent them thinking. Evolutionist realy have reasons. I think you must read Atlas. And see Mr. Oktar’s wise explanations about evolution.

Posted by rauf | Report as abusive

Dear Mac,

i think you are in contrast. first you say protein couldnt be formed by chance and then you say evolution. The chances of a protein molecule forming by chance are 1 in 10^950. In practical terms that figure means “zero probability.” so what does it mean? it means: God created everything. this is said by Newton, Einstein vs. Aren’t they scientific?

i recommend you to read Harun Yahya’s books without prejudgement. you will see the details in his books. you dont have to buy them. you can read them free from http://www.harunyahya.com .

Posted by janny | Report as abusive

Janny, no I’m not a student. I’m the religion editor at Reuters and moderator of this blog. Are you a student? I asked before where your school library is because I was surprised to see that a library had put it in its collection. Most of the reports we hear say the libraries do not make this book available.

Posted by Tom Heneghan | Report as abusive

Dear Rauf
I am glad to say that I totally agree with you.Thank you for reminding the beautiful verses of the Coran and letting us see another “scientific explanation” of the Creation.
Best rgrds,

Posted by Marrie | Report as abusive

Marrie,

Here is a story that appeared today about a recently discovered fossil … a transitional fossil.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7339 508.stm

There are many, many examples like this in the scientific literature. Don’t take my word, or Oktar’s, as authoritative on this issue. Go look.

Janny: You are confusing the notion of chance with that of evolution. They are not the same thing.

Posted by Mac | Report as abusive

Rauf:

It is ironic that you allude to Broca’s and Wernicke’s areas. That happens to be my area of scientific expertise. I get your point, and it is well made. But like all analogies, it only works up to a point. Broca’s area does far more than provide motor control to speech, and Wernicke’s is not the sole brain site responsible for the representation of meanings.

I do not disagree that wisdom and knowledge are different and complementary domains, and that one without the other is seriously handicapped. Where we disagree is in how we believe humans can acquire either knowledge or wisdom.

Now, I cannot say for certain that there is no supernatural creator, or god, or whatever. But I do think that the probability of such a supernatural entity is almost zero. Bronze age (Christian) and medieval (Muslim) stories are entertaining and historically interesting, and they may even be sources of knowledge and wisdom, of sorts. But even if there is a supernatural being, scientists can’t do science if their explanations rely on untestable events (like god reaching down and somehow changing the morphology of Broca’s area). It may be true, but there’s no way to know, in the way that scientists use the word “know.”

Posted by Mac | Report as abusive

Dear Marrie,

as far as I know, there never was a scandal aound the Lucy-fossil. And Ota Benga was no fossil, so I have no idea why you bring him up.

Anyway, I studied Harun Yahya’s sites thoroughly, and most of it couldn’t meet my scientific standards. The site is contains so many standard-creationists errors, that it becomes almost funny.

With regards,

Jack

Posted by Jack L. | Report as abusive

Dear Marrie,

before I forget:

Francis Collins may believe in God, but still considers evolution as a fact:

According WIkipedia:

In Collins’ book The Language of God: A Scientist Presents Evidence for Belief (published in July 2006), he considers scientific discoveries an “opportunity to worship.” In his book Collins examines and subsequently rejects creationism and Intelligent Design. His own belief system is Theistic Evolution (TE) which he prefers to term BioLogos.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Col lins_%28geneticist%29#Religious_views_an d_debates

I don’t care if people do or do not believe in God. However, I do care about truth in science.

With regards,

Jack

Posted by Jack L. | Report as abusive

Jack:

(R)amen.

Posted by Mac | Report as abusive

Dear Mac,
Thank you for all the information. Believe me I will check the sources you gave me.

As a Muslim I believe that God wants us to investigate and reflect upon everything….the heavens, the earth, mountains, stars, plants, seeds, animals, the creation of man, the rain and many other created things. And by examining these, thanks to Allah, I come to recognize the artistry of God’s creation in the world around me.
Islam is the religion of reason and conscience. A person recognizes the truth proclaimed by God through the use of his wisdom, and derives conclusions from the truth he has seen by following his conscience. A person using his reason and conscience, upon examining the features of any given object in the universe, even though he is not an expert in such matters, -just like me- would understand that it was created by a Possessor of great Wisdom, Knowledge and Might.

Therefore, once I make use of my reason and follow my conscience, it quickly apprehends the absurdity of the claim that the world came into being by chance. That’s what I believe.
I just wish to see you understand that my belief in God is not a belief with “eyes shot” nor under the impression of Mr. Oktar, but I follow the science, derive my conclusions from the obvious facts and proofs and than I conclude with God.

The Prophet Muhammad, God’s Messenger,( peace be upon him) also enjoined people to acquire knowledge. He even stressed that it is our obligation to search for knowledge. He said in a Ahâdîth:
“Seeking of knowledge is incumbent upon every Muslim” or “Acquire the knowledge and impart it to the people.”

I love science and reading about it and the more I read the more it directs me to the proofs of Creation.

I would like to underline once more that the religion encourages scientific study. Just as Albert Einstein said, one of the greatest scientists of the 20th century, “science without religion is lame”, which is to say, that science, unguided by religion, cannot proceed correctly, but rather, wastes much time in achieving certain results, and worse, is often inconclusive.

Here is only one of the millions of examples of the scientists who believe in Creation:

“Dr. Fritz Schaefer is the Graham Perdue Professor of Chemistry, and the director of the Center for Computational Quantum Chemistry, at the University of Georgia. He has been nominated for the Nobel Prize, and was recently cited as the third most quoted chemist in the world. Schaefer, a believing scientist, aspires to better know God through his scientific pursuits. As he puts it:
The significance and joy in my science comes in the occasional moments of discovering something new and saying to myself, ‘So that’s how God did it!’(US News & World Report, December 23, 1991)
Kind regards and thanks for this instructive chat.
Marrie

Posted by Marrie | Report as abusive

Dear Jack,
Here is the fact about Lucy:
“The fact that Australopithecus cannot be considered an ancestor of man has recently been accepted by evolutionist sources. The well-known French magazine Science et Vie made the issue its cover story in its May 1999 edition. The magazine considered Lucy, regarded as the most important fossil specimen of the species Australopithecus afarensis, under the caption ‘Adieu Lucy’ (‘Good-bye Lucy’) and wrote that the apes from the Australopithecus species did not represent the origin of man and should be removed from the family tree. (Isabelle Bourdial, “Adieu Lucy”, Science et Vie, May 1999, no. 980, pp. 52-62)
An article by Tim Friend in the US newspaper USA Today made the following comments regarding Lucy (Australopithecus afarensis), portrayed as a direct ancestor of man:
“Lucy’s scientific name is Australopithecus afarensis. She looked very similar to a modern bonobo chimpanzee, with a small brain, a protruding face and large molar teeth. But Lucy has been losing favor over the past 10 years as the direct ancestor of the genus homo…
… And most say they now believe that the idea of tracing humans in a straight line back to an ancestor such as Lucy is too simplistic…”
Space was also devoted in the article to comments by Richard Potts, head of the famous Smithsonian University Natural History Museum Human Origins Program. Potts and several other evolutionist experts accept the fact that Lucy must now be removed from man’s family tree.( “Discovery rocks human-origin theories”, Tim Friend, 21 March 2003: http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/200 1-03-21-skull.htm)”

Considering Ota Benga, I gave it as an example of forgery of evolution. Since the evolutionnist could not find any single transitional fossil among the fossil records, they started looking for it among the “living beings” such as pygmies.Ota Benga was one of them.
“An excellent example of the effects of Darwinism on racism is when African explorer Samuel Verner arrived at the 1904 St. Louis World’s Fair with seven African Pygmies. These men (called “primitive savages”) were exhibited under the direction of W. J. McGee of the St. Louis World’s Fair Anthropology Department in an effort to “be exhaustively scientific” in demonstrating the stages of human evolution. …Eventually, one of the Pygmies, Ota Benga, returned to the United States after being bought in a slave market by Verner. He was presented to Director Hornaday of the Bronx Zoological Gardens with the intention to display him showing the “hierarchical view of races.” “Hornaday, a ‘believer in the Darwinian theory,’ concluded that there exists ‘a close analogy of the African savage to the apes’ (New York Times, September 11, 1906, from book, One Blood, p. 133-134)…”
….But Ota Benga was just a “man”,a diiferent race, married with children…. not a living sample of a transitional fossil.
That’s why I mentioned them. Hope it’s clear.
I understand and respect that you do not care about the other’s believes.I gave the examle of Mr. Collins as a latest new,after 30 years,he confessed there is a Creator, God.The information of wikipedia should maybe updated considering this latest new of 7th of April.Or whatever…I beleive every one is free on his believes.In a verse of Coran it says “there is no obligation in religion..”(Sourate Bakarah,256).
And if you may refer to my comment to Mr. Mac, you will see that I care about truth in science as well as you do.

Thnx&Rgds

Posted by Marrie | Report as abusive

Hello Marrie,

I appreciate your taking the time to explain –very eloquently, I might add — the depth of feeling you have about knowledge and religion.

I have a couple of comments in response.

You wrote:
“A person using his reason and conscience, upon examining the features of any given object in the universe, even though he is not an expert in such matters, -just like me- would understand that it was created by a Possessor of great Wisdom, Knowledge and Might.”

To a scientist, this is a religious statement, not a scientific one. That does not mean it is wrong, simply that it is not addressing knowledge, or the conclusions one can draw from observation about the world, in the way that science does. My point is that using your reason and conscious may lead you to stand in awe of a creator, but that is not evidence for or against a creationist account of origins.

You wrote:
“Therefore, once I make use of my reason and follow my conscience, it quickly apprehends the absurdity of the claim that the world came into being by chance. That’s what I believe.”

No scientist I know claims to know how the world came into being. There are a few ideas, based on observations about the rate of expansion of the universe and other facts, but so far no one has produce a definitive account.

If you are referring to evolution, there are two points I would make. First, evolution theory makes no claims at all about the origin of the universe, or the beginning of life (that is a different field, called abiogenesis). Rather, it provides an evidentiary (naturalistic) account of how species adapt and change over time. Second, no one claims that chance is the force behind evolution. It may play a small role (spontaneous mutations, for example), but there are recent ideas that explain those biological events better than chance, so its role seems to be receding more. Natural selection has nothing to do with chance.

You wrote:
” . . . science, unguided by religion, cannot proceed correctly, but rather, wastes much time in achieving certain results, and worse, is often inconclusive.”

Marrie, this reflects a common misunderstanding of science. Science is almost never conclusive. The phrase I hear most from scientists is “we don’t know yet.” Even when we have solid evidence that helps fill in the big picture, we still can’t say we are certain. That is not a failure of science. Consider: Science is open to change, if any new facts come forward. In contrast, religion does not change, regardless of facts.

Which system of knowledge would you want to lead in the search for wisdom?

I quite agree that the natural world inspires awe. When I see a patient recover with the help of our cumulative understanding of treatment, some social, some physical, some chemical, much of which is based on biology which is in turn informed at its core by evolutionary theory, I am also in awe of our species. We’ve learned how to learn, how to turn our knowledge and the world’s resources to our advantage, We have a lot to learn still.

My concern is that if we look at the wonders of the world, and conclude that god did it, that is a science-stopper. No more need to explore, we have our explanation. End of story. Sorry if that touches on religious sensibilities.

Posted by Mac | Report as abusive

Dear Tom Heneghan,

Yes i am a student at a muslim school. yes, i saw that book in our library.

Posted by janny | Report as abusive

Mac,

I’m with you all the way. I now work at a big Scottish university after having worked at a big English university, and my coffee table is somewhat underwhelmed with Atlases of Creation too. Even more annoyingly, two of my friends got copies sent to them, but I didn’t. :o(

Have you actually seen this book? I have, and I have to say it is a beauty – and it’s HUGE. You don’t need a coffee table for it… just put some legs on it and it IS a coffee table, but with more pictures. The download version is, by contrast, a let down. The version my friends got is a giant, fabric-covered hardback book, which not only could you rest a coffee cup on, it would also do a pretty good job of absorbing any spillages too. But don’t rush out and buy it just yet. Perhaps Mr. Yahya will track us down and fill our pigeon holes with our own spanking-new copies of this tome?

Dear Mr. Mac,
Although I was not able to read all of your comments(because of a technical problem of the blog I guess,I can not read the ends of phrases),as I have said several times, we can not convince each other to our own truths.So for me, your way of thinking is not understandable, so is mine for you…
You know what?It’s because we are destined to be so!…
Ok..anyway, was nice to talk to you in a ground of respect.I thank Mr. Tom Heneghan&reuters for giving us this place as well.
But we can not keep on trying to convince each other for ever in this blog,can’t we?
I beleive you are quite busy to prove evolution,and me, to prove Creation!
I wish you luck in the future and wish that your soul meets God one day too in a laboratory, in a new fossil or in no matter where…
Salut,
Marrie

Posted by Marrie | Report as abusive

Mars,

From your description, sounds like I may need to build an extension on my pigeonhole for this book. But in anticipation, I think I\’ll stop by Ikea on the way home later and check out science-themed table legs.

Posted by Mac | Report as abusive

Dear Marc,
All through history there have been those who have tried
to justify their atheism – and in today (this age) they think they have found it in the ‘theory of evolution’.
To their huge disappointment and humiliation the oppposite has happened.
The fact that many evolutionists stubbornly still cling to it clearly exposes one important psycological
reality about them:- WISHFULL-THINKING!
The fact of creation cannot be refuted (not successfully anyway) and is CONCLUSIVE. The fact that this has not been made official and is not likely to while the present secular world order is still in place does not alter the reality. Concealing and distorting the truth does not eliminate it and never will do.
The Glorious Qu’ran, the last and final testament to mankind predicted this humiliation for atheists and materialist scientists of our age in a verse chapter 21:30
‘ Do not the unbelievers see how the heavens and the earth were joined together and then we cloved them asunder? And we made every living thing out of water. Will you then not beleive?’
The Big Bang as you know is a 20th century discovery and the Qu’ran was revealed at a time when no human beings much less a people in the desert(arabia) could possible have known this. Reflect carefully also over the verse which is telling the unbeleivers of THIS AGE

Dear Marc,
Apologies for i hadn’t yet finished submitted it early by accident.
As i was saying the verse is saying to those who do not believe in Almighty GOD ‘How can you still insist in unbelief? You thought ‘science’ offered you a way out but well here you go…
In other words there is no justification scientific or otherwise for not believing in God and creation.
This of course adds more in exploding the myth that science and religion are not compatable. This nothing but a disgracefull sinister DECEPTION.
For more info on the miraculous scientific nature of the Qu’ran see what many scientists (non-muslim)have admitted regarding it by typing ‘scienceislam.com’

Joe,

If you choose a worldview that admit supernatural agency, fine. You’re certainly not alone in that, and if it somehow fills an emptiness you have, then I’m happy for you.

My simple point is this: Scientific knowledge of how the natural world works can only appeal to natural explanations.

If the Qu’ran’s lovely language appears to resonate with modern science — as you suggest in the case of the Big Bang — that is historically interesting to me, and perhaps deeply inspiring to you, but it is not science. Scientific knowledge is not gained by revelation.

You seem to think I am an atheist. I never said that. I do believe that more science education will tend to lead more people to question the authoritative edicts from clerics or old books. The power in science, in my opinion, is that science is open to change. Religion is not. Our societies, even our planet, are threatened by myriad problems. Religion had its chance to bring solutions and so far has failed utterly. Science doesn’t have all the answers, but science is wiling to say “we don’t know, but we have practical ways to find out, so let’s get to work.”

One does not need to be an atheist to understand the way science works. As a scientist, however, I will argue strongly against any attempt to insert supernatural beliefs into the scientific enterprise.

Posted by Mac | Report as abusive

marc
it is amazing! It is not hiting home the FACT that science is under no obbligation to be materialistic. It is an examination of the workings of nature from which one (you don’t have to a scientist either – reason alone is sufficient) can derive conclusions. The conclusion is whether one likes it or not that science in the 2nd half of 20th century and particularly from the 80′s onwards has cleary proven that creation is FACT.
like i said because of it’s ideological concerns (materialism) it is being kept deceptively on the agenda
but it can only continue to deceive those who are either lazy to do the research or agree with it out of ignorance or as often is the case – convenience.
One cannot be compelled to believe but what can be said clearly is that one who doesn’t is doing so in VAIN and like i said out of wishfull thinking.
Why do they not allow creationism theory alongside darwinism to be taught in schools etc and allow people to make up their own minds. The answer is simple: – people on mass will clearly see through the deception and the majority of people cannot be subjected to social darwinist (conciously or subconciously) indoctrination which leads to the breakdown of family values, morals etc and as a result the so-called ‘democracy’ based systems where the few control the majority will collapse.
they will not allow this to happen as they have worked for centuries behind the scenes to get it to this point ( the architects of current world order are the freemasons)
The real enemies of humanity are not a few reactionary extremistists or fanatics or others that are not following the religion properly but atheism and materialism and those currently in power who continuosly work to that end.
By the way history has clearly shown the achievements (scientific also!) of muslims when they were at the height of their civilization. The reason for the subsequent decline is in the fact that they were no longer in general adhering and practicing the religion as they used to. The external factors like the rising of the europeans via their americas discoveries and colonialism, came to bear on the muslims for this reason.
In case people think it was simply a matter of having fallen behind etc i will give you a tremendous example from history:- The arabs before the advent of islam were a very backward people with no real worthy achievements to their name. All of a sudden in no time they became a massive sophisticated civilazation that for eg took europe out of the dark ages! And despite being inferior numerically and militarily (technologically and in terms of experience they toppled 2 ‘superpowers’ of that age, the centuries old byzantine and persian empires.
HOW?! Historians avoid or downplay this but the answer is obvious – the word of God the final testament the Qu’ran and the example of the Prophet Muhammad (saaws)
did it. And not to far off in the future it is destined to happen again and who will be the beneficiaries of this? The Whole World! do not worry as it will not be happening at the hands of fanatics or terrorists but real genuine Muslims who are going to recapture the spirit that was the driving force before.
In the end as always Truth always overcomes falsehood, it is the nature of things.
All praise and thanks is due to Almighty God alone

Joe,

It is clear from your comments that you don’t have a clue how science works. Science isn’t equipped to follow the evidence into supernatural realms. Nobody is hiding this fact. When we do science, we stay away from the supernatural, in everything we do. You seem to want to change the definition of science. Now that is wishful thinking. Good luck with that.

You wrote:
“Why do they not allow creationism . . .”

Who is “they”? Name names, Joe. Be specific, and support your claims with evidence. Otherwise you sound like a conspiracy theorist.

Posted by Mac | Report as abusive

Marc
The point i am making is that science is an investigative tool which can be used to prove the basic truth of religion i.e that God most certainly exists and that He is the creator. Like i said Scientific evidence has established this.
Now those who hide this and try to keep it away from the masses are those who control the banks, scientific journals, academia, media etc. Do some research into the subject and wake up.
I will try to simply it for you:- science has clearly borne out the fact of Creation and many scientists know this but are reluctant to admit it and certainly do not want others to know about it. They have conditioned themselves to not believe in an Almighty Creator and are blindly attached to materialism which prevents them from seeing the manifest and irrefutable and conclusive proof despite the fact that scientists are in the best position to witness the truth. And hence going back to the verse ‘will you then not believe?’ i.e HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY YOUR UNBELEIF?

and of course only silence or an avoidance of the subject follows. People reject or doubt the existence of God because they want to avoid worshipping and submitting to Him, instead opting to follow their own whims and desires. This is a very important pschological point which lies at the heart of the matter.
It works like this:- if an individual sincerely and objectively examines the evidence whether scientific and other methods by using his reason, conscience and logic in searching for the truth God surely guides that individual to the true path. If instead he chooses his own whims and desires which unfortunately most of mankind do then it follows logically that that person does not deserve Guidance and as a result God deservedly seals up the heart and mind of that person. When this happens no logic, scientific evidence or reasoning with that individual will make any difference whatsoever. The Qu’ran clearly describes the pschological state of disbeleivers in detail and that is why we Muslims don’t despair when we come across individuals who amazingly cannot see the manifest truth and stubbornly reject it.
By the way you should buy The Atlas of creation which is an amazing piece of work. It really exposes the myth or rather fairy tale of evolution. And to be honest even that is not neccessary for reason and logic are enough. If a child approaches you with a bag of marbles numbered 1 to 10 and asks you to close your eyes and pick them out in that order the odds of you succeeding are in 6o’s millions to one (this is only a micro example) and apply this now to the universe! It is crystal clear that chance or coincidences can never have played any role whatsoever in creation because chance is no ‘deity’ and has no power to do anything although many people seem to think so.I conclude with this – My friend worship The One and Only true God that there is. He made this phenomenal universe including yourselve and He is certainly worthy of worship.
Good luck in life

Take it from an evolutionary biologist: That SOME species haven’t changed visibly in a very, very long time does NOT contradict evolutionary theory. Under certain common circumstances there will only be selective pressure to stay the same (termed stabilizing selection). This is no mystery, and showing lots of these examples with pretty pictures does not disprove evolution.

Also, let me reiterate one fact about The Atlas of Creation: some of those pictures of living animals are FISHING LURES! There are several pictures where you can spot the hook to catch the fish on. These pictures are stolen from a website selling them for fishing (copyright infringement) – and this is what Oktar uses in his vain attempt to disprove evolution.

Posted by Bjorn Ostman | Report as abusive

marc
you are ascribing a power or ‘divinity’ to speculative so-called natural mechanisms like natural selection which they simple do not have. Many experiments in laboratories on fruit flies and what mutations do to them have shown this. Now if in an organized environment like the laboratory this is the case how then does chance or coincidence play a role? Now i will give you just a few examples of the MANY admissions of evolutionist scientists (who remember wish so ardently that this fairy tale were true) but that for obvious reasons you or i or anybody else will not come across on the mainstream media and academia.
the late Stephen Jay Gould: ‘The essence of Darwinism lies in a single phrase: natural selection is the creative force of evolutionary change. No one denies that selection will play a negative role in eliminating the unfit. Darwinian theories require that it create the fit as well.’
Collin Patterson: ‘ NO ONE has ever produced a species by mechanisms of natural selection. NO ONE has ever got near it and most of the current argument in neo-darwinism is about this question.’
Fred Hoyle explains why evolutionists believe in chance:
‘ Indeed such a theory that life was assembled by an intelligence is so obvious that one wonders why it is not widely accepted as being self-evident. The reasons are PSYCHOLOGICAL rather than scientific.
As you can see from the above and many others despite these admissions they continue to hopelessly believe in this disproven nonsense which should be honestly announced
OFFICIALLY – but how can that be expected when they cannot be honest even to their OWNSELVES!(souls which know the truth but ignore and cover it up)
As for the so-called fishing lures this is nothing but typically desperate attempts to slander and breakdown the character and therefore the credibility of a man who’s work cannot be successfully challenged or refuted.
The guy organizes public fossil exhibitions all over Turkey and i think he is planning (further heartache for evolutionists!) some abroad also. Even if for arguments sake one were to admit there are a few fish lures how would that compare with disgracefull and scandalous forgeries for eg piltdown man and so on ever since the theory has been propagated in their desperate vain attempts to prove a fairy tale? Evolutionists have been digging for 150 years and the results are evident and conclusive – stasis in the fossil record, no ILLUSORY transitional forms to be had. Mr harun Yayha with his works is destroying the false hopes of those who continue to deceive themselves but more importantly OTHERS. Richard Lewontin, a famous geneticist from Harvard Uni an evolutionist himself says:
‘It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world,but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a prior adherencento material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and set up concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute, so WE CANNOT ALLOW A DIVINE FOOT IN THE DOOR.’
These words make it clear that Darwinism is a dogma kept alive for the sake of attachment to MATERIALIST PHILOSOPHY. The above statement typifies the mindset of the evolutionist. I will conclude with some verses from the Glorious Qu’ran:
45:23-24 Have you not seen him who takes his whims and desires to be his god – whom God has misguided knowingly, sealing up his hearing and his heart and placing a blindfold over his eyes? Who then will guide him after God? So will you not pay heed? They say,”There is nothing but our existence in this world. We die and we live and nothing destroys us except for time.” They have no knowledge of that. They are only conjecturing.

6:116 If you obeyed most of those on earth, they would misguide you from God’s Way. They follow nothing but conjecture. They are only guessing

marc
apologies i was responding Bjorn Ostman

Joe,

You ask me to justify my disbelief in supernatural agents.

Let me put it like this. I don’t believe in Thor, or Zeus, or Jehovah, or Allah, or Morrigan . . . or any single one of the hundreds that have been suggested.

Do you believe in all of these? Three or four? Or just one?

I assume you would point to Allah. Well, then, with one minor exception, we agree. I simply reject one more god than you do.

How do you justify one particular god?

Joe, sincerely and objectively examine the nice pictures of insects in your book. They are not insects at all. They are fishing lures.

Bjorn, I saw the fishing lure photo rip-offs.Those are some very nice lures! I wonder if they are as effective at hooking fish as they are dishonest creationists. By Joe’s “logic,” we should probably declare their creator to be the master of all creation, and worship at his workbench. I think it’s a guy in northern California.

Here is a link where you can see a discussion with the creator (he’s human, by the way, and runs a fishing guide business), some of the fishing flies, including pages from Oktar’s book that include the stolen images. In some pictures the hook is clearly visible.
http://www.kernriverflyfishing.com/cgi-b in/yabb/YaBB.pl?num=1199997151;start=all

Posted by Mac | Report as abusive

marc,
There is only one revelation in existance today that has remained intact and escaped corruption at the hands of man and has been proven historically too in fullfilment
of a promise made by God himself. That Book is the last and final testament to mankind The Holy Qu’ran’
In this Book there are dozens of SCIENTIFIC miracles which precede ESTABLISHED (evolution obviously not beeing one of them and as we know conclusively never can be) modern scientific findings by well…only 12 to 1400 years! Go and verify it for yourself like for example the admissions of Non-Muslim scientists perhaps even atheists to its Divine Origin on ‘scienceislam.com’
Have you done this? And if you have how much heartache did it cause you? But perhaps you will conclude in line with your wishfull thinking and false hopes that it is chance or coincidence! After all the evolutionists/materialist mindset lends itself this way.
This miraculous Book tells you to beleive in ONE GOD ONLY and that His proper Name is ALLAH. End of.
Your insistence about the so-called fishing lures like i said is a vain attempt in avoiding the facts. Try responding to the book by countering it with hundreds of
transitional fossils pictures. You full well know that it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE. Like my Sister Marie said earlier there would have been volumes on the scale of the Encylopedia Brittanica! The fact that there clearly isn’t and can NEVER be means that you should stop clutching at straws with this fishing lure business.
Come to terms with the fact that the theory of evolution intellectually is over with and accept the evident fact of creation. This truth will eventually become official as the people in control will not be in power for ever.
Many scientists now know this and through the works of people like Adnan Oktar more and more people are becoming aware of the deception. Anyone (including yourself) who comes across such works can no longer sincerely and objectively still believe in this sinister fairy tale and if they do it is a vain endeavour because they will have no intellectual grounds in which to do so. They will be like i said in submission to their whims and desires instead of Almighty God in which they should be and in which SCIENCE also conclusively points them to.
By the way i thought you said you were not an atheist?

Dear Marrie,

Considering Lucy: there is indeed a problem considering the lineage from ape-like creatures to hominids.

However, the problem is that there are SO MANY transitional forms and side-branches. This makes it difficult to decide which pre-human hominid is our ancestor. And the recent discoveries you mention make it harder to determine which fossil can be determined as THE ancestor.

That is the story about Lucy. Hardly a scandal, I should say.

Compare it with the Islam: most Muslims are Sunni. However, the existence of Shia Muslims, or Sufi’s doesn’t prove that Allah doesn’t exist.

In other words, apart from Lucy, more transitional forms and side-branches are found. And according to you, this proves Creation. Sorry, but I don’t see any logic in this.

Considering Ota Benga: please give me a neutral source that claims that the St. Louis World’s Fair Anthropology Department was about evolution. As far as I know, anthopology is a science concerning different cultures; not about evolution or biology.

Furthermore, as far as I know, it was only Hornaday who thought that Benga was a “missing link”. And you cannot disqualify biology because of one erring biologist, can you?

Concerning Mr. Collins: this is what he says about his Creator:

“If God, who is all powerful and who is not limited by space and time, chose to use the mechanism of evolution to create you and me, who are we to say that wasn’t an absolutely elegant plan? And if God has now given us the intelligence and the opportunity to discover his methods, that is something to celebrate.”
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/172/story _17234_1.html

Amen, I say.

Regards,

Jack

Posted by Jack L. | Report as abusive

Dear Joe,

Responding to the book by countering it with hundreds of
transitional fossils pictures?

It was done once, without the help of a glossy book:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-tran sitional.html

And another time, with sound and vision:

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p= 5F6E733EFD1D2E42

Regards,,
Jack

Posted by Jack L. | Report as abusive

jack,
Nice try but no self-deluded,arrogant and mocking style can change the FACT OF CREATION which science has arrived at. When evolutionists themselves make certain admissions about the fossil record lacking left, right and centre in transitional forms. The fact that a single protein let alone a cell could by their own mathematics have come about by chance. Their desperate exposed forgerie attempts, mutations as proven by experiment always cause harm which invalidates so-called natural selection, the cambrian explosion and on and on…
The fact that the universe came into being via an explosion and that explosions destroys matter and not arrange it neither immediately or no matter long a period may pass. All this is known scientific evidence which clearly rules out any possibility of chance. SIMPLE. Is it rationable and reasonable to conclude any different? No of course not and if you do it becomes clear it is the product of wishfull thinking – so why your stubborn refusal to humbly submit to the Creator instead of your own whims and desires?
I will conclude as always with a verse from the last and final ,scientifically proven also, Glorious Qu’ran:
‘ MANKIND! AN EXAMPLE HAS BEEN MADE, SO LISTEN TO IT CAREFULLY. THOSE WHOM YOU CALL UPON BESIDES ALLAH ARE NOT EVEN ABLE TO CREATE A SINGLE FLY, EVEN IF THEY WERE TO JOIN TOGETHER TO DO IT. AND IF A FLY STEALS SOMETHING FROM THEM, THEY CANNOT GET IT BACK. HOW FEEBLE ARE BOTH THE SEEKER AND THE SOUGHT! Surat al Hajj v73
This was said 1400 years ago. Is this the case? It is! And will remain so for good. Who says so? God has.
End of

Joe,
You wrote:
“Go and verify it for yourself like for example the admissions of Non-Muslim scientists perhaps even atheists to its Divine Origin on ’scienceislam.com’
Have you done this?”

Yes. I had a good look around the site.

” And if you have how much heartache did it cause you?”

Uh, none.

The “scienceislam” site simply preaches, it does not prove anything. For that, evidence is necessary. And it is rife with errors. One example:

“There is a popular theory referred to as the ‘Big Bang’ theory. It tries to explain the existence of the universe in an evolutionary manner having an initial beginning with an immense explosion of some gases or solid mass.”

The ‘Big Bang’ theory has nothing to do with evolution. Darwin never said anything about the origins of the universe. That is a field with physics called cosmology.

With such basic, school-child errors on the big issues, how can you take anything they say about science seriously?

I don’t understand how you can so easily overlook the fact that Oktar stole some of the images he used in his book. Is theft ok in Islam? If not, why do defend it?

Posted by Mac | Report as abusive

Joe,

your words are powerful and bombastic, but they do not provide anything to work with. The only link you gave was one to a site with simply preaches.

If you really have “known scientific evidence”, please give them.

Mac informed us about some books:

Except for one thing. It’s hardly anything, really, just a minor point. That bit about transitional fossils that you refer to might need a little revision. You see, there’s this:

Edward B. Daeschler, Neil H. Shubin and Farish A. Jenkins, Jr (6 April 2006). A Devonian tetrapod-like fish and the evolution of the tetrapod body plan. Nature 440: 757–763.

And this:
Gingerich, P.D., B.H. Smith, & E.L. Simons. 1990. Hind limb of Eocene Basilosaurus: evidence of feet in whales. Science 249:154-156.

Oh, and this:
Rose, K.D., and Bown, T.M. 1984. Gradual phyletic evolution at the generic level in early Eocene omomyid primates. Nature 309:250-252.

I gave some links:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-tran sitional.html

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p= 5F6E733EFD1D2E42

You only came up with the Qu’ran, whose comments on fossils, transistional forms, RNA and DNA are not very exhaustive.

with regards,

Jack

Posted by Jack L. | Report as abusive

marc and jack
That site contains the admissions of several scientists
who were probably not overjoyed and also reluctant to do so but in a stunning show of objectivity did so.
The reason why i mention the Big Bang is because it rules out any possibility of CHANCE at the outset long before talking about how living things came about on earth.
As for the fact that the Qu’ran doen’t mention transitional fossils, dna etc it doesn’t need to because God says He created every living thing and for the umpteenth time this is exactly what the fossil record has borne out to the dismay and humiliation of those who had or continue to have false hopes!
And preaching the TRUTH is surely a better thing to do than preaching FALSEHOOD which cleary Evil-ution! has been shown to be.
Now i have already said that even if one allows that several of those pictures might be fake , what about the rest of the hundreds of examples? The point has truly and firmly been made and your attempts to focus on a few alleged fishing lures cleary shows the desperate and hopeless situation you find yourselves in. It is nothing but trying to divert attention from the FACTS which is that evolution is a scientifically proven fallacy.
Harun Yayha has over 200 books so is it plausible that there is not a single or even a few mistakes possibly in them?! The main theme of his books is to prove the false and sinister deceptions of evolution and the SOLID FACT of CREATION. This he has unquestionably done so and no attempt at refutation can meet with success in this regard. It is simply IMPOSSIBLE so stop clutching at straws – you are only humiliating yourselves.
And about that devonian fossil you keep on insisting and thumbsucking on about – Do me a favour?!

marc and jack or anyone else
I will give a list of teqniques which Darwanists employ to keep alive the illusion of evolution.
(1) They depict evolutionist scientists as very learned, superhuman individuals
(2) Those who accept the theory of evolution are presented as respected scientists; those who do not accept it are branded as conservatives
(3)They try to influence people by using scientific terms and concepts that laymen cannot understand
(4)In order not to break the spell of Darwinism, they themselves do not read, nor do they want their followers to read anything that criticizes them
(5) In order that the spell of Darwinism may not be broken, evolutionists keep their supporters from thinking
(6) They pass over questions about evidence for the collapse of the theory of evolution with dismissive responses and later give the impression that they have answered them
(7) Darwinists resort to every kind of rhetorical device to get people under their influence
(8) By continually repeating empty words as in a hypnotic spell, they try to put people’s logic to sleep
(9) They try to prove evolution on the evidence of irrelevant topics and dicoveries
(10) They use scientifically unwarranted topics and discoveries as proofs of evolution
(11) They try to spread the Darwinist spell by suggestions made by visual effects
(12) They try to make the public believe that to be a real scientist, one must accept the theory of evolution

For more detail and info on each of the headings above you can read for free on Harun Yayha ‘ The Dark spell of Darwinism’ How Darwinists twist the truth to turn people away from God

Now the whole point of the above is that when a sincere and objective person comes to know of the Scientific evidence that has killed the fairy tale of evolution stone dead none of these propaganda teqniques will any longer work on him or her. Whatever that person comes across from that moment onwards in the media, academia etc will have no effect on him/her.
THE ILLUSION WILL HAVE BEEN EXPOSED AND THE SPELL BROKEN and inevitably the solid FACT OF CREATION wil have shined through.
Like i said Truth always overcomes falsehood
Amen

“No falsehood can approach it from before or behind it: it is sent down by One Full of Wisdom, Worthy of all Praise. “Kuran(metareading) 41 Fussilat 42

The vision that comes first to mind in all researches, the fundamental point is the position of this vision.
If one located on the right (west), we do not see what is happening to the left (east) and even just in the middle, there is a risk of making bad choices, make decisions inappropriate ; the problem remains in the consequences

The more moderated, more cautious, more reasonable at the center ; in a high position, on planet Earth, in his Monadology Leibniz(1716) described such a position at home or city of God.
City of god in Old Testament built by Abraham(peace upon him):” And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, aUnto thy bseed will I give this cland: and there builded he an daltar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him. And he removed from thence unto a mountain on the east of aBeth-el, and pitched his tent, having bBeth-el on the west, and cHai on the east: and there he builded an altar unto the LORD, and dcalled upon the ename of the LORD.”O.T genesis12(7-9).In Kuran(Metareading) it the position where you can be testimony on humans:”He has chosen you, and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the religion of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims(submitted, secured), both before and in this (Revelation); that the Messenger may be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind!”Kuran 22The Pilgrimage (Al-Hajj) -78the bible confirm this verset:
” And this a gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come” Bible Matt 24-14.
now we return to verset22 -78 where one can be testimony take the kuran(meatreading) what we can see we read that all creatures are created from WATER:
“He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days – and His Throne was over the Waters ” Kuran11Hood -7.
let ‘s see the chapter before the hajj(direction to kaaba(home of god) )which is the chapter 21 prophets ;creation of SKIES, EARTH, MOUNTAIN, NIGHT DAY, SUN, MOON:
“Do not the kafaro(Unbelievers,dissimulators) see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may find their way.
And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!
It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course. ” Kuran21 prohets 30-33.
next chapter 22 hajj we see creations of PLANTS:
“Seest thou not that Allah sends down water from the sky, and forthwith the earth becomes clothed with green? For Allah is All-Subtle, All-Aware”Kuran22 hajj -63
chapter23 amooinoon(believers,secured):
“And We send down water from the sky according to (due) measure, and We cause it to soak in the soil; and We certainly are able to drain it off (with ease).
With it We grow for you gardens of date-palms and vines: in them have ye abundant fruits: and of them ye eat (and have enjoyment),-”Kuran 23 moominoon 18-19.chapter 24 creation of ANIMALS:
“And Allah has created every animal from water: of them there are some that creep on their bellies; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four. Allah creates what He wills: for verily Allah has power over all things. “Kuran 24Noor(Lights) -45.
chapter 25 creation of HUMANS:
“It is He Who has created man from water: then has He established relationships of lineage and marriage: for thy Lord has power (over all things). “Kuran 25 Furaqan(Criterion)-54
THESE CREATURES WORK IN PAIR TO MAINTAIN BALANCE? TO REPRODUCE TO EXIST:
” That has created pairs in all things” Kuran 43Gold Adornments (Az-Zukhruf)-12.
PLANTS:”has sent down water from the sky.” With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others. “Kuran 22aha53.ANIMALS:washed out by Noah(peace upon him):”take thou on board pairs of every species, male and female”Kuran 23moominoon23 -27.HUMANS:”That He did create in pairs,- male and female, From a sperm-drop when lodged (in its place);”Kuran 53 Star(najm) 45-46.
PLACE TO DIVERSITY:
” Seest thou not that Allah sends down water from the sky? With it We then bring out produce of various colors. And in the mountains are tracts white and red, of various shades of color, and black intense in hue.
And so amongst men and beasts and cattle, are they of various colors. Those truly fear Allah, among His Servants, who have knowledge: for Allah is Exalted in Might, Oft-Forgiving. ” Kuran35 The Originator (F?tir) 27-28.
DIVERSITY OF HUMANS THEIRS LANGIAGES AND COLORS:
“And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colors: verily in that are Signs for those who know. “Kuran 30The Romans (Ar-Rüm) -22.
Creator must be OMNISCIENT and OMNIPOTENT, laplace said :
“We may regard the present state of the universe as the effect of its past and the cause of its future. An intellect which at a certain moment would know all forces that set nature in motion, and all positions of all items of which nature is composed, if this intellect were also vast enough to submit these data to analysis, it would embrace in a single formula the movements of the greatest bodies of the universe and those of the tiniest atom; for such an intellect nothing would be uncertain and the future just like the past would be present before its eyes.” Wickepdia.”

Seest thou not that it is Allah Whose praises all beings in the heavens and on earth do celebrate, and the birds (of the air) with wings outspread? Each one knows its own (mode of) salathoo(connexionprayer) and tasbihahoo(mission, praise. And Allah knows well all that they do. dominion of the heavens and the earth; and to Allah is the return”Kuran24 Noor(lights) -41-42

Posted by kareem | Report as abusive

Not sure what the point is anymore, Joe. Just one comment.

“4)In order not to break the spell of Darwinism, they themselves do not read, nor do they want their followers to read anything that criticizes them”

You’re kidding, right? Seriously, do you have any idea at all how science works? If you were to drop in at a science conference, where scientists come together to present their work to each other in public, you would observe the harshest criticism you can imagine. Of course, the criticism revolves around the science. But that’s what they do, science.

Posted by Mac | Report as abusive

Dear Joe,

Your posting on 4:19 pm hardly gives me anything to work on.

According to you there was Creation, because

a) the Qu’ran says so;
b) there are facts that prove creation;
c) Evolution is a falsehood;
d) Evolution is proven fallacy;
e) Creation is a fact;
f) Mr Yahya says so;

Again, your emotional force is better than your rational arguments, I must say. That is technique nr. 7 of your list.

Furthermore, you ignore all the books and websites that I and Mac provided. That is technique nr. 4 of your list, as well as nr. 6.

If I may give some advice: please take a look on mr Yahya’s website. Then, tell me which technique cannot be applied on him.

With regards,

Jack L.

Posted by Jack L. | Report as abusive

marc and jack,
All of the above is correct from A to F . People who believe and maintain a Creationist point of a view regardless of emotion or whatever simply support there stance and views with reason, logic and rational argument – which has been sufficient to arrive at belief in God at all points of human history even in the absence in those times of the Scientific means and tecknology at are our disposal that we have today, which incidentally has SERVED to PROVE it beyond any shadow of a doubt whatsoever to the disappointment of those who wish otherwise!
Now i have seen many websites all over the internet that try in desperation to prove otherwise but the beauty of the internet is that among many cowboys there are GEMS of Truth. It is therefore down to the sincere and objective seeker of truth to distinguish between the two and in that regard NO CONTEST!
There are many creationist movements in the U.S that are doing great work in showing the fallacy of evolution and fact of creation but Harun Yayha is far and away the best in the world because of quantity, style and sheer class combined with more importantly the truth of it’s CONTENTS.
Ever since he has been on this mission he has been ruffling a few feathers in many circles high up and has to deal with a load of slander and falsehoods(eg your fishing lures!) which is normal for someone who’s work is inconveniencing a great MANY people but how does he respond? With more volumes of Atlases and many more to come containing more hundreds of fossils that reveal the solid fact of creation! And he continues to do PUBLIC Exhibitions too where you might ask him directly about those so-called clutching at straws fishing lures of yours!
I have to keep repeating myself but when many evolutionists themselves have made many admissions concercing the fallacies of evolution (although they still believe in it!emotion eh?!) although for reasons already explained several times above you will NOT get to hear about them on for eg BBC 1.
Now people like Adnan Oktar are ready right now to present their case on any mainstream channel if they were given the chance. Right Away! But sadly we all know and why that is not going to happen is it?
They wont allow creation theory to be taught along side darwinist theory and make people make up their own minds. Democracy eh?! They are understandably afraid. That is why The European Council is trying to ban the Atlas! What is this, a return to the middle ages?!
Anyhow the guy has so much class that he is getting through to millions via the internet for FREE!
It has been a pleasure chatting with you but i will pass on the role to other Brothers or Sisters of mine.

p.s reflect over the pschological aspects of my arguments because that is where the heart of the matter lies
GOOD LUCK

high to everyone, i would like to make some short comments,
i would like to discuss this issue in detail but i have no time unfortunately:

1) i am a muslim and I basically believe and support Evolution (as a process guided by Allah). and there are many muslim scholars and believers who basically do support Evolution in this manner.

2) some biggest believing scientists of our time
like Francis Collins (Christian USA) and Faruk Elbaz (Muslim Egypt) and thousands like them also supports the idea of Evolution as “God’s creation technique.”

3) this 100 year old Evangelical anti-evolutionary stand and the ones who are walking after them in the name of God may in fact be very unfortunate for Religion.
they may be doing more harm than good for the Religion and all the believers…

4) to think that “by denying Evolution”
you will prove God
and “by denying the reality around us”
(= declaring it to be a total illusion)
you will defeat materialism

may be false Evangelical and Gnostic Christian ideologies that came to existence long before the so called “international muslim hero” mentioned above.
they are doing not good but may be doing “great harm” for all believers with these fallacious claims.

Posted by musa - moses | Report as abusive

Moses
You are in a deep sleep my friend. I am not not going to be repeat myself as my many comments above have covered
this.
Any Muslim (and they usually tend to be the apologetic type which in are present age are many) whether a scholar or otherwise is misguided for the following reasons:-
(1) The Qu’ran in no way whatsoever supports evolution and anyone who tries to claim so is doing so in vain for eg for more details see Harun Yayha’s Darwin is Incompatible with the Qu’ran
(2) Modern Science itself particularly in the last 30 years has completely invalidated this sinister fairy tale proving that it was never more than: -
IMAGINATION + SPECULATION FUELLED BY WISHFULLY THINKING!
This is the pschological state typyfying the evolutionist/materialist/atheist mindset. How ironic it is that they can dare to charge believers with a ‘ blind faith’ tag ,supported by mainstream media/academia/ hollywood etc of course which instead utterly and deservedly belongs to them.
Any person( eg i am a humble gardener with little high education) who learns of this truth can openly challenge in a confident and unhesitating manner ANYONE regardless of how loaded up (whether famous or charismatic) that person is of qualifications.
Unfortunately it seems (i hope not) that you are one of those muslims that have gone to Uni and allowed themselves to get brainwashed and deceived into thinking that belief in this myth means being modern, progressive and ‘scientific’. IT DOES NOT! Please realise what is going on.
I invite you my brother to rid yourself of these puppet strings that are holding you up in order that you may see clearly insha Allah

To all concerened
I would also like to point out something very important.
In the US great work is being done by also Creationists of a Cristian persuasion which has exposed the myth of evolution and refuted conclusively too but the unfortunate thing is that they leave themselves open to attack by insisting in bringing the Bible into play which unfortunately has clearcut irreconcilable scientific errors. The Bible is of course right in that it talks about creation but it does so in an erroneous fashion. The reason for this is simple – The Bible is known to be a changed and tampered with scripture (by men).
But if creationists from US/Europe think or expect evolutionists/atheists to be accomodating or understan ding in this they must still be sleeping. It is cleary not in their interest to do so.
This means that they label Bible-believing Cristians as being blind in their belief, dogmatic, stubborn and bigoted – all charges that in anycase as it has turned out can be levelled and much more at the evolutionists!
Fortunately no such problems exist with the final revelation to humanity: THE QU’RAN

high joe,

as I already mentioned above, there are many –renowned and respected worldwide– christian & muslim scientists and scholars who support evolution;
and there are many verses in Scripture that may miraculously indicate to us some of the most important aspects of evolution. (Ankeboot 20 & Anbeyaa 30 & nooh 13-14 & ibrahim 19 & araaf 69 & anaam 132 & bakaraa 30…)
and also please check out the links below:

= dr. Francis Collins (the head of the human genome project) and %40 of believing USA christian scientists
and many other scholars who support evolution as “God’s creation technique” like him.

= dr. Farouk Elbaz (the first muslim scientist who worked in NASA and he was the science consultant for many muslim countries for years) and many other muslim scientists and scholars from all over the muslim countries who basically support the idea of evolution
as “God’s creation technique” like him.

and also today in USA 36% of all believers –christians & muslims & jews etc.– support the research and teaching of evolution. only the right wing evangelicals (by the way these are the crusaders and invaders of islamic regions and fanatical haters of islam worldwide and throughout the history) are %100 against evolution at least for 100 years. the deep –political & theological reasons– behind this anti-evolutionary stand is being clearly understood now in many moderate christian & muslim circles.

to put it here very shortly = if God really used evolution as a creation technique,
then the evangelical idea that:
all humans were created in an instant, by God,
and immune from all evolution, like God,
in the perfect “Image of God”
may not be so true…

and so the idea that Jesus was a perfect %100
“Image of God” may also be very questionable…

in short, this anti-evolutionary (= fallaciously claiming that God never used evolution) and anti-reality (= fallaciously claiming that God never created the matter around us, but it is only an illusion in our brains) are originally fanatic evangelical & gnostic christian ideologies,

please just “google” the subject under “evangelical anti-evolutionary crusade…” & “gnostical anti-reality crusade…” and see the real masterminds of your misled heroes.

and these fanatic evangelism & gnosticism in fact may surely be the false MESSIANIC IMPOSTOR (= Anti-Christ & Messiah-Dajjal) ideologies of our time…

so God knows best who is sleeping yet, and who is totally AWAKE my brother!

take care. salaam.

Posted by musa - moses | Report as abusive

Moses
You are in a delusional state. No doubt about it. Although it is true that evolution need not neccessarily rule out the Creator but the simple FACT of the matter is that the Glorious Qu’ran does not support it and modern science has clearly invalidated it. If you insist otherwise you need to do the following:
(1) Prove that all of a sudden the wondrous cell is not incredibly complex and that mathematically it is possible for it to have come about by chance/coincidental and random processes.
(2) That the so-called king-pin of evolution, natural selection(the dressed up blind chance-based imaginary false deity of evolutionists) via mutations adds new beneficial information to the genes therby fuelling evolution.
(3) The cambrian Explosion never happened
(4) Thermodynamics supports evolution instead of burying it
(5) The fossil record supports it with innumerable examples of transitional forms as would have most certainly existed had it happened and therby conclusively proving it without any shadow of a doubt to “stubborn” people like me! All we have had so far is fakes, frauds, cartoons based on the imagination,speculation and deceptive fossil interpretations of an alleged few which evolutionists try to portray as such and not ONE SINGLE GENUINE exapmle of a transitional form.
(6) That the enormous info in DNA can be reduced to matter and explained in materialist terms which is ideoligically crucial to the evolutionist point of few
(7) That the images (see The secret beyond matter/Darwin’s Dilemma, the Soul by HY for more detail) seen at the back of the brain like in our dreams too can also be explained in material terms
(8) That the mainstreammedia for eg on the Discovery Channel, History Channel, National Geographic,Hollywood, news channels and various scientific journals have made all of the above present to the common people.Even if they were to do it in their typically circulatory and tautalogical style and engaging in verbal acrobatics. NOT EVEN THAT! THEY SIMPLY DO NOT WANT IT OUT IN THE OPEN
I am ready to supply you with a mountain of admissions from evolutionist themselves regarding the above. All you need to do is ask and they will come flooding in!
As for giving me statistics on percentages of believers in evolution i would say that that is subject to argument in view of the rising tide of creationist science in the last 30 years. Do not be deceived by the fact that the secular controlling mainstream media champion and often give all the time in the day to the views of evolutionists and hardly nothing to creationists
Remember the views of many scientists and society at large regarding Galileo in his time. Were not the majority then in the wrong? Also as a Muslim the majority opinion that should first and foremost count to you is the opinion of the scholars of Sunnah Wa’l Jammah who have the blessed Isnad (chain of transmission) going back to the Prophet (saas) and not the speculative nonsense of misguided apologetic weak muslims of this age.
Furthermore it was influential and powerfull anti-religionist materialist circuls (in particular freemasons) who at the time jumped at the opportunity the theory of evolution offered to justify their atheism and world view who have been at the forefront(still are) in propagating
this falsehood. It has been a tool that has been used in an attempt to disprove God and mock religion.
But as Allah swt says they are only mocking themselves. Remember also Allah swt said: – that if one were to follow the common run of people it will lead one astray.
Please for details see HY book on Darwin is incompatable with the Qu’ran which clears up all your misconceptions including those verses which you erroneously point to.
God Almighty did not Create living things via evolution. AN IRREFUTABLE AND CONCLUSIVE FACT. PERIOD

high joe,

you may be misled because of your a little bit biased & uninformed perspective from the beginning.

first of all, in the Scripture, the beginning of Universe –out of bang– and then its evolution, and the beginning of life –out of water– and then its evolution is mentioned together. (anbeyaa 30) (nooh 13-14 & insaan 1) this must be in itself a miraculous statement & a powerful hint –about the origin of universe and about the origin of life– in one verse together. (21/30)

and in the Scripture we also learn that when God plans a process (=qada amran), then He only says to it “be” (=koon) and then it immediately starts to be (=feyakoonu), as He wishes.

for example, when God wants to create “iron,” He plans all the “stage by stage” process thereof beforehand, and then He says to it “be,”
and thereupon in the stars all the elements start to be from the simplest to the most complex (hydrogen & helium & lithium…) by itself in this “stage by stage” process, and then “iron” comes up in the advanced stages of this process, fully under His inspiration & command. (but this inspiration & command part cannot be observed by our five senses, and for this reason this part is the “belief” part of this scientific phenomenon. (israa 44 & fussilat 11) but up until here, this is a process scientifically observed and accepted by all theists and atheists together & alike. and because that God’s inspiration & command and communication with all universe and in such processes cannot be observed by humans’ five senses, all these processes & mechanisms are called “random processes” by scientific standards. so whoever wants, after this, s/he can believe that these random processes are totally
inspired & controlled –above our five senses– by the Creator; and whoever wants, after this, s/he can believe that these random processes are only of Natural source, and does not go further than that. there is no compulsion in our religion (baqara 256) beyond this point. we can only tell about the magnificence of all these mechanisms & processes and the magnificient final products thereof, and invite people to God based on this knowledge; but then the final decision regarding this important subject always rests with the individuals…
no compulsion beyond this point.

and we can apply this perspective to all the other scientific subjects as well, including big bang and our evolution of course.

and then we can understand why in USA today although
%87 of population are believing in God and only %13 of population are not believing in anything further than Nature,
the evolution is still up and alive and being researched & taught & accepted in schools. it is because MAINLY with the support of these kind of righteous &
truth-seeker believing people, this is so.
(and by the way, if you go to any evangelical fanatic anti-evolutionary websites here, you can easily see that –for this reason– they are harshly attacking these kind of righteous & truth-seeker
(theistic-evolutionary) christians more than atheists & agnostics etc…)

yes; but if someone is of an evangelical mind –or under the influence of evangelical literal interpretation of Scriptures– and so s/he erroneously does believe that God created all the universe and all the living things in an instant and with his own hands (because evangelicals have no concept of God’s saying “be” and then everything starts to “be” by itself upon His this command, and then continue to evolve according to a predetermined heavenly master-plan that is fully under His inspiration & command…
as i tried to a little bit explain above), and then if s/he again erroneously does believe that God created human beings in the perfect Physical Image of Himself (which of course should have been perfectly far away & immune from any kind of evolution in this case, from the beginning to the end) then s/he of course MUST be an ardent opponent of any kind of evolution concept at all, from the very start.

and by the way, the worldwide renowned & respected another german scientist Hoimar Von Ditfurth may be the first prominent Christian scientist on earth who questioned this false evangelical concept (= all human beings have been created in the perfect physical Image of God! and so Jesus is sent as %100 perfect Image of God!) by using the concept of Evolution against this disastrously erroneous evangelical religious doctrine. and for this reason in many evangelical fanatic anti-evolutionary websites he is harshly condemned and presented as an agent of atheists & masons etc.

but may God bless his soul –and the souls of all the other Christians who will follow in his footsteps–
and may Jesus (= the honorable Servant of God) embrace and love them for all eternities.

so my brother, then if you see all of these righteous christian & muslim scientists –especially–

= dr. Francis Collins (by revealing human genome, he tremendously contributed to the well being of all humanity, and rightfully is respected by all humanity
–theists and atheists alike.
(and by writing a book about his belief in God, he caused hundreds of thousands of people come close to
God worldwide)

= dr. Farouk Elbaz (by educating hundreds of prominent muslim scientists –including the first muslim who went up into space and commemorated the name of Allah
therein–
he contributed tremendously to the well being of all muslims around the world, and rightfully is respected by all humanity –theists and atheists alike.

and thousands of other believing scientists in their footsteps who basically support evolution as “God’s creation technique,”
as “misguided apologetic weak christians & muslims of this age” and you also see these righteous & knowledgeable men as in a “delusional state,”

but on the other hand, you take for yourself some guys

= probably an art-school drop out (heavily influenced by these fanatic evangelical anti-evolutionary ideology & publications)

= and also who claims that all the universe around us is no more than an “illusion” in our brains (heavily influenced by these gnostic anti-reality ideology & publications)
(** and this disastrously erroneous idea has long been identified as a big “satanic delusion” by nearly all muslims from the time of prophet Muhammad…)
(you should also see respected sunni scholar Bilal Phillips explanations on this important subject on youtube…)

as a scientific & religious hero and a strong muslim in a “healthy state of mind,” perhaps this should be the biggest dilemma of your life, my brother.
again, take care. salaam.

** and you should also see –easily google– all the sunni scholars in many muslim countries (turkey & egypt & pakistan & jordan…) who are experts in arabic language and who make wonderful explanations about signs of “evolutionary creation” in the Scripture. because this is a long subject i cannot give and explain all the related verses here right now. it would take days to do so. but if you want, you can reach them easily. whether you accept them or not is up to you then. no compulsion in our religion at all.)

salaam.

Posted by musa - moses | Report as abusive

Moses
You have been dealt with Bro. You just keep repeating the same stuff. There is no remedy for this type of sickness. Your enslaved to your whims and desires.
I just want to say that the issue about matter isn’t about it not existing or being an illusion but what we see on the outside is formed as an image/copy inside our brains and therefore cannot say with certainty that it is the real version. This is also what modern science has arrived at although once again people at large do not know about it because once again it is being hidden or kept away from them because it leads to the obvious conclusion:- our souls are being presented with what Allah swt wants us to see.
You suffer an inferiority complex. You insist on beleiving in fairy tales and scandalously continue to claim that tha Holy Qu’ran supports you.
Are you saying that Adam (as) who originally was in heaven and then sent to earth descended from apes?!
For the umpteenth time The Qu’ran in no way supports you and neither does modern science as the fossil record has established.
WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU

Moses
By the way even if you had all the time in the world you would never be able to prove evolution and meet all the points that i have raised concerning it. There has been no evidence found for it whatsoever and it is only being kept alive by means of deception/propaganda.Once someone is informed about it it is no longer possible to sincerely believe in it any more.IT IS ALL OVER. And it is becoming tedious to have to keep on repeating myself. At the end of the day you can take a horse to the water but you can’t make it drink.
Regarding the issue of matter again i am going to present to you further scientific evidence via the admissions of atheist/materialist/evolutionist scientists themselves:
George Berkeley – “At the beginning, it was beleived that colors, odors,etc, ‘really exist’, but subsequently such views were renounced, and it was seen that they only exist in dependence on our sensations.”
Including your Hoimar V Dit – “No matter how we put the argument, the result doesn’t change. What stands before us in full shape and what are eyes view is not the “world”. It is only its image, a resemblance, a projection whose association with the original is open to discussion.”
For obvious reasons (pschological) they are reluctant to admit that this reality is the Soul.
A British revert scientist to Islam Dr Arthur J Alison , the head of the department of Elect and Elect engineering said having done studies via electrical and electronic instruments(parapschology) he concluded that ‘something’ i.e the soul leaves the body during sleep and returns to when waking. This is yet(and he points this out) another scientific miracle of the Qu’ran 39:42 which again parallels modern scientific discoveries.
My Brother if you were ignorant and misinformed regarding all these scientific evidences which have ruined and killed evolution this excuse is no longer available to you. Especially in your regard to your absurd saying that the Qu’ran supports evolution.
Wasalaam

high joe, you said:
———-
I just want to say that the issue about matter isn’t about it not existing or being an illusion but what we see on the outside is formed as an image/copy inside our brains and therefore cannot say with CERTAINTY that it is the REAL VERSION!!!
———-

yes, brother. we CAN and we MUST say with CERTAINTY that it is absolutely %100 the REAL VERSION, if we believe in God’s Word. (and who can know this issue better than the Creator?)
because this is what God has taught us in the Scripture:

did you not SEE (and realize) that God created the heavens and the earth with/as a “REALITY” (= belhaqqi)… (ibraheem 19)

but according to Gnostic ideology (you can visit their official site here: stargods.org)

———-
Our reality is based on the programming that has been embedded in our brains. So who says that that programming is HONEST??? (stargods)
———-
(** so by this they are questioning
the honesty of this programming and the HONESTY OF
GOD –who made this programming– in the first place!
but of course, He is recognized as a trusted %100 HONEST GOD by all believers in all His works. (ibraheem 19 & ghaasheyah 17-20 & …)
who could think the otherwise, except these sick-minded Gnostic manipulators?)

———-
Change the programming and you alter all human REALITY!!! (stargods)
———-
(** it may not be so easy at all, o you deluded Gnostic minds!) hajj 73 & …

———-
If this is the case then all physical reality is an ILLUSION!!!
What if our brain is programmed to see light in a different way? The fact is that there may not even be a universe out there! What if the universe is actually a “massive monster” with an open mouth coming towards earth to swallow the world. This is totally a possibility if our brains are programmed to interpret the visual images into another form. (stargods)
———-
(** yeah, i also believe it is a real possibility for you, but not for the “healthy-minded” normal believers.)

so for us there may be two options here:

1) to believe in God’s Word and truly trust Him,
and learn from Him and understand that:

the outside world is a %100 REALITY created by our God (ibraheem 19) in the first place, and image/copy of this outside world that is again created by our God –by the means of the light– in our brains (israa 12) is also
%100 SAME as the outside REAL things. and no one can manipulate this REALITY against the will of God. (hajj 73 & toor 32…)

(and this has been the consistent true perspective & belief of many righteous christian or muslim scholars & scientists & thinkers throughout the history, and now.)

2) these horrendously false claims of Gnosticism

= we cannot know if the outside world REALLY exist or not???

= we cannot know if the image/copy of outside world in our brains is REALLY reflective of the real things or not???

= we can easily manipulate these images in the way we want, if we find the magic –satanic– trick!!!

must surely be the erroneous FALSE MESSIAH (= Messiah Dajjaal & Anti Christ) ideology of our time…

and joe, you again said:
———-
My Brother if you were ignorant and misinformed regarding all these scientific evidences which have ruined and killed evolution!!! this excuse is no longer available to you. Especially in your regard to your absurd!!! saying that the QURAN SUPPORTS EVOLUTION?
———-

yes, Quran may basically be supporting “EVOLUTIONARY CREATION” (as many muslim scholars agree and explained it in detail)…
yes, Quran may miraculously be pointing out to us:

= how the origin of life –with primitive organisms– began in water in the first place (ankeboot 20 & anbeyaa 30)

= and then how it has been evolved in basic “common ancestry” (= atvaaran) method (nooh 13-14)

= and then how the first human beings appeared on earth after a long evolutionary process as a “successor” (= haleefatan) to some –human-like– primates. (insaan 1) &(baqara 30 & anaam 133)

all these important issues and the garden (= jannaat) from which Adam and Eve has been evicted –must have taken place after this long evolutionary process– are well explained by many muslim scholars;
and all the miraculous verses that points out to evolution and its most basic –God selected– mechanisms are again well discussed & explained in these books. so i strongly urge all righteous believers (christians & muslims & jews and others) here to get some of these books and see all the evidences. (and all these believing scientists and scholars are, of course, well aware of some “anti-evolutionary” objections against these scientific & religious evidences, and they are giving the credible answers to those objections.)

yes; but why then God would want to use Evolution as His most-wise Creation technique?
as some of us may already know, in evangelical ideology it is –horrendously erroneously– believed that

= God created human beings with His own hands and in an instant –perfectly immune from all kinds of evolution before and after– perfectly in His own physical image???

= then God created and sent Jesus –among these Godlike humans!– %100 percent perfectly in His own physical image???

yes, if God had really wanted to create some creatures perfectly in His own image, and then to send a most beloved “God incarnate” messenger to these creatures, this would have had to be the only ideal “creation technique,” of course.

but if God in reality used evolution as a creation technique, then all this evangelical ideology & perspective & interpretation may basically be HIGHLY ERRONEOUS…
and please see, how a –worldwide popular– evangelical site (christiananswers.net) have long put this argument in their “DANGERS OF THEISTIC EVOLUTION” list:

—————-
danger no 5=
The incarnation of God through His Son Jesus Christ is one of the basic teachings of the Bible. The Bible states that “The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us” (John 1:14), “Christ Jesus… was made in the likeness of men” (Philippians 2:5-7).
The idea of evolution undermines this foundation of our salvation. Evolutionist –christian scientist– Hoimar von Ditfurth discusses the incompatibility of Jesus’ incarnation and evolutionary thought: “Consideration of evolution inevitably forces us to a critical review… of Christian formulations. This clearly holds for the central Christian concept of the ‘incarnation’ of God… ”
(christiananswers)
————

so all righteous christians & muslims & jews and others, let us come together then, and let us get united
under one true God (the God of moses & jesus & david & muhammad) and let us not be duped by this false
anti-reality and anti-evolutionary gnostic & evangelical FALSE MESSIAH (= Messiah Dajjaal & Anti Christ) ideologies.

let us worship God alone, like moses and jesus and david and muhammed have all worshipped Him alone. and let us thank our God for His these Realistic & Evolutionary wonderful creations, and let us know that only our God is totally immune from all kind of evolution from all past-eternities and to all future-eternities.

and lastly, i want to give here some of Jesus’ (= the honorable Servant of God) words which condemns all erroneous believers who falsely claim that he was “God incarnate.”

Jesus said: why do you call me good? no one is good but God alone. (Mark 10/18)

(** so Jesus himself here humbly & clearly accepted and stated that he was neither “good” nor “God.”)

Jesus said: many will say to me on that day: lord, lord, did we not prophesy in your name, did we not drive out demons in your name, did we not do mighty deeds in your name?
then i will declare to them solemnly: i never knew you. depart from me, you evildoers! (Matthew 6/22-23)

(** anti-reality and anti-evolutionary gnostic & evangelical minds –as we examined above a little bit– and the ones who walk in their footsteps may certainly be among these evildoers. yes, perhaps they are the real evildoers, aren’t they?)

take care, again. salaam.

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Moses,
You truly lack understanding my Brother. What exists on the outside is reality but of the kind that God presents to our soul. This means that only He knows for sure whether what is shown to us is the real version. This is not a denial of the existence of matter but only the explanation that what we see is it’s image/copy. We cannot go beyond that. The same applies to our dreams and our Hereafter. The only ABSOLUTE Being is Allah and the rest is shadow beings.
And for the last time this is also what Modern Science which for eg quantem physics/mechanics has shown.
Look at Harun Yayha’s articles: Quantum Physics: the discovery that scientifically demolished materialism
The wave-like properties of the electron and the scientific proof. See Darwin’s Dilemma:The Soul. Also see The secret beyond matter.com
Qu’ran denies darwinism.com
This as i keep telling you will expose your absurd claims that The Qu’ran supports evolution. The fact that you believe that we were descended from apes means with certainty that you are going against the Qu’ran(which is a grave thing indeed) and modern science which has not provided any evidence whatsoever for evolution beyond speculation based on the wishfull-thinking of those who do not want to submit to the Allah(God) swt and try to find (in vain of course) justifications for their atheism and materialistic outlook of the world.
You should look at (and i have mentioned this many times before) Evolution Deceit, Darwinism Refuted, The Dark Spell of Darwinism – How Darwinists twist the truth to turn people away from God (their propaganda teqniques)
The errors of the National Academy of Science(USA),
A definitive reply to evolutionist propaganda etc which gives mountains of evidence showing the invalidity of evolution at EVERY LEVEL and the ADMISSIONS OF EVOLUTIONISTS THEMSELVES which means conclusively that it is ALL OVER. Are you listening and taking heed instead of ignoring it because it is not conforming to your whims and desires? Do you suffer from similar pschological sicknesses that they do?
I want to conclude with just one example (and there are
many) of an atheist/evolutionist philosopher:Malcom Muggeridge
“I myself am convinced that the theory of evolution, especially the extent to which it’s been applied, will be one of the GREAT JOKES in the history books in the future. Posterity will MARVEL that so very flimsy and DUBIOUS an HYPOTHESIS could be accepted with the incredible credulity that it has.”
This is an admission of someone (and there are many like that) who in spite of what he has just said continues to believe in the myth called evolution! Is there any remedy for such sickness?
My Brorher do not fall into the same trap and walk tall and proudly that you are a Muslim which means we are on the truth and we can provide evidence including scientifically that we are, and unlike evolutionists
ours is most certainly not blind faith.
I will no longer be exchanging views with you as i feel that i have truly covered matters Alhamdulillah.
Take care Insha Allah
Salaam
Yusuf Salah-uh-Din Morreale (an Italian revert Brother of yours in Islam)

high joe, you said:
———-
You truly lack understanding my Brother. What exists on the outside is reality but of the kind that God presents to our soul. This means that only He knows for sure whether what is shown to us is the REAL VERSION?
———-

yes, of course only God knows it; and then He clearly informs us in His Scripture that = it is %100 REAL VERSION (Image/Copy) of the outside %100 REALITY. (ibraheem 19 & israa 12 & ghasheeyah 17-20 …)

but again according to Gnostic ideology:
first of all,

= we cannot know if the outside world REALLY exist or not???

= we cannot know if the image/copy of outside world in our brains is really reflective of the real things or not???

= we can easily manipulate these images in the way we want, if we find the right technique!!!

these are DELUSIONAL and deeply ERRONEOUS Gnostic views & claims. whoever follows after these erroneous claims are definitely under the influence of FALSE MESSIAH (= Messiah Dajjaal & Anti Christ) ideologies…

and these kind of Gnostic masterminds are already searching now for a way to manipulate the real IMAGE/COPY of the outside real world in our brains.
they claim that:
(you can read and learn –and beware of all these kind of erroneous & delusional claims– in their official site: stargods.org in detail)
———-
1) Our reality is based on the programming that has been embedded in our brains. So who says that that programming is HONEST??? (stargods)
———-

because they claim that in fact originally satan (not God) has made this programming!!! and for that reason we are cut off from REALITY right now!!!
and if we really want to see this REALITY, first we must utterly reject the Materialistic View that = the matter around us is real.
in short, because we are now utterly under the influence of this satanic Materialistic View!, we cannot see the REALITY!!!
but if we totally submit ourselves to our God and follow in the footsteps of these “Gnostic Religious Heroes” (because they undermined Materialistic View forever by this extraordinarily righteous discovery!!) we shall certainly see the REALITY!!!

here is just one little -theoretical- example:

all our beloved deceased relatives & parents & sisters etc. may in fact be all around us right now!! but satan do not want us to see them, he hides them from us!!
for that reason our brains cannot interpret the “electrical current” coming to it from outside correctly and let us see them!! but if we submit ourselves to our God and reject this satanic Materialistic View –matter around us is real & the image/copy of it is real– and instead accept this righteous Gnostic View!! –they are all but an illusion based on a satanic programming– then God will open our eyes, and then our brain will interpret these electrical currents coming from outside just “rightfully,” and then we shall see on earth all our deceased beloved ones just in front of us everywhere, as a truthful REALITY??!!

this and all the other similar highly delusional & erroneous christian Gnostic claims of course have definitely been rejected by Jesus (= the Honorable Servant of God) beforehand in Gospel. (Luke 17/27-31) and again Jesus (= the Honorable Servant of God) how beautifully has informed us of such highly delusional & erroneous positions:

take care, then, that the Light in you not become Darkness. (Luke 11/35)

because if the Light in you is Darkness, how great will the Darkness be. (Matthew 6/23)

and again our prophet Muhammed how beautifully informed us via Quran that:

= the outside world is a %100 REALITY created by our God (ibraheem 19) in the first place,

= and image/copy of this outside world that is again created by our God –by the means of light– in our brains (israa 12) is also %100 SAME as the outside REAL things.
and no one can manipulate this REALITY against the will of God. (hajj 73 & toor 32…)

so all of us must exceedingly take care and beware of such highly delusional & erroneous Gnostic FALSE MESSIANIC (= Messiah Dajjaal & Anti Christ) claims,
and we must reject such erroneous claims from the very start, definitely & completely.
(for this reason, please see again the respected sunni scholar Bilal Phillips sermon on youtube: (Beware
of …)

and this “anti-reality” Gnostic branch must be no: 1 horrendously erroneous FALSE MESSIAH (= Impostor) ideology of our time.

and “anti-evolutionary” Evangelical branch –which i tried to expose a little bit in my above writings– must be no: 2 horrendously erroneous FALSE MESSIAH (= Impostor) ideology of our time.

as i tried to explain the real motives behind this paranoid & ignorant anti-evolutionary Evangelical movement that has been continuing incessantly at least for 100 years up until now, especially in US and then worldwide. (please read again my above writings
about this anti-evolutionary Evangelical movement and its real false deep reasons for this biased & ignorant attackings on Science & Humanity worldwide for a long long time.)

but despite this paranoid & ignorant Evangelical anti-evolutionary tirade, today at least

= %40 of Theistic Scientists still strongly support Evolution as “God’s Creation Technique” in US.

= %36 of population supports Evolution as “God’s way of creating life on earth.”

(by the way these statistics have all been confirmed now by many Evangelical anti-evolutionary sites, to their deep anger & sorrow…)

and in Islamic world (especially turkey & egypt & pakistan & jordan…) many believing scientists and scholars and thinkers are now recognizing the “Evolutionary Creation” concept and they are embracing it against these Evangelical anti-evolutionary movements. and especially in turkey on many religious websites many –especially young and educated– believers are giving the Evolution news and giving the miraculous Quranic verses which informs all humanity about God’s wonderful evolutionary creation techniques… (anbeyaa 30 & nooh 13-14 & ibraheem 19 & araaf 69 & anaam 133 & insaan 1 & …)

so again, then all righteous christians & jews & muslims & and other believing people, let us get united under one true God; let us know that

= our God is unlike anyone & anything. (Quran 42/11) (Torah-Deut. 4/15-18)

= so He did not create human beings in an instant in His own physical Image (as Evangelicals falsely claim);
but He created everything in evolutionary steps to clearly show us that:

we also are all humble human beings that are product of an evolutionary creation in the first place (anaam 133 & baqara 30), and we even now may be open to further evolutionary process in the way our God wishes… (anaam 133 & ibraheem 19)

so only our God himself is immune from all kinds of evolution from all past-eternities to all
future-eternities, because He is the only Perfect One,

and so no creature/species on earth or in heaven has or will ever be created in the perfect physical Image of God…

so Jesus (= the honorable Prophet of God) himself was a humble human being like us, who clearly stated that he was not a perfect “God incarnate” at all. (Mark 10/18)

so let us all worship this magnificient God alone, the God of Moses & Jesus & David & Muhammed.

let us appreciate everything He has created for us here
as %100 REALITY and their %100 REAL images… (14/19 & 17/12 & …)

let us appreciate all His wonderful EVOLUTIONARY creations… (21/30 & 71/13-14 & 76/1 & …)

and all the atheists & agnostics etc. who hear this:
you should never run away from God and true religion because of these delusional & paranoid “anti-reality” and “anti-evolutionary” false religious doctrines.
on the contrary, you too should learn and come close to this “realistic & evolutionary” God and true religion. you may find happiness and contentment forever, if you decide to do so.

all friends, take care again. salaam.

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To Reuters,
Please stop writing falsehoods when writing about Adnan Oktar eg
You write that Harun Yayha like the Bible believes in a literal 6 day creation. An absolute downright lie.
The Qu’ran also speaks of a six day creation BUT the word DAYS also means LONG EPOCH/PERIOD in Arabic.
If you were ignorant of this, fine but you if you are doing this delibaretly SHAME ON YOU!
If so it is no surprise though as your being a secular news agency who supports evolution are used to this.
When are you going to realise that your ways of doing things can continue to influence and deceive only those to who it is convenient or are ignorant, asleep or lazy to find out what is going?

even in the Bible today, one “day” is sometimes definitely used for some long “epoch/period” in the eyes of God. (Psalms 90/4)

so many Christians today take these “6 days creation”
story in the Bible as “6 long epoch/period creation” story.

and so these kind of some righteous Christians neither find any difficulty/conflict today between long “Evolutionary Creation” process and Bible.

only some evangelical Christians who –erroneously– think that God created all the universe at once (without beginning from “bang” and then its long evolutionary course…)
and all the life on earth at once (without beginning from “water” and then its long evolutionary course…) find serious, irreconcilable difficulty/conflict between Science and Religion.

and so i also tried to explain before
how wondrously/miraculously it is also stated in Quran
that:

God created all the universe out of “bang” and then its long evolutionary master plan & course,

and all the life out of “water” and then its long evolutionary master plan & course, (anbeeyaa 30) (nooh 13-14 & anaam 133 & insaan 1 & …)

as stated just in the “same verse” together. (anbeeyaa 30)

so all truth-seeking friends, take care, again.
salaam.

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and in the Quran it is also stated that:
———-
the ones who say: “God is the Messiah, the son of Mary,” have definitely blasphemed. (Maaedah 17)
———-

and it is also emphasized in Quran that this blasphemy has also been the “biggest lie” produced in the name of Religion in the history of humanity.
and all the universe would utterly shatter/crumble because of such a horrendous blasphemy. (Maaedah 17 & Maryam 88-93)

**********

and also Jesus (= the honorable Servant of God) himself made it absolutely %100 clear in Gospel that:

= all the righteous Christians must/will worship one true Lord, as the first commandment dictates to us, (Mark 12/29-30)

= and he himself was not the Lord at all, but he was only an honorable Servant of this Lord,
he himself was also worshipping Him alone. (Mark 10/18 & Matthew 4/9-10)
********************

so then here is one more great scientific miracle/evidence, for all of us, from our God, in our time (= that is “Evolutionary Creation” concept, as we discussed in detail above…) that we, all together, may utterly reject this blasphemous claim now (= Human Beings are –anti evolutionary & instant & perfect– Godlike creatures!! and so Jesus was a God incarnate!! among these Godlike creatures!!)
and instead return to this our –unlike anyone– “Truly Perfect One God” and His “Truly Humble –but exceedingly Honorable– Human Messenger Jesus” before it is too late. (Mark 12/29-30 & 10/18) (Matthew 4/9-10 X 6/22-23)

and may God also protect all of us from backing/siding with such horrendously erroneous evangelical “anti evolutionary” false & paranoid & ignorant & biased
claims in the name of God, forever and ever.

so all truth-seeking Christians & Muslims & others, we should take care again, exceedingly. (Mark 10/18 & 12/29-30 & Matthew 4/9-10) (Quran 5/17 & 116-117)

salaam.

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Bro,
I am going to deal with you one last time because eitherwise this is descending into an ego(nafs) thing which corrupts the sincerety behind the intentions.

Why are you preaching about Isa(as) to me when as a Muslim i know the real story concerning him. What has that got to do with the subject?The Myth of Evolution or thhe Fact of Creation?

Returning to the (the very beginning) verses in Genesis which are famous and well known – it says after the end of each verse which describes the end of each day :- “… and then it was morning.”
This leaves no room for any meteaphorical interpretation and it cleary means 24hr days. Whatever psalms might say is insignificant by comparison and in anycase contradictory to Genesis.

We should (including myself) stop mentioning Christian
mistakes and seek COMMON TERMS with them like Allah tells us in the Qu’ran. We both believe in God (we should set aside our differences for now) and Creation and we both repudiate and refute evolution and atheism/materialism systems which currently dominate in the world. The opposition is a threat not only to us but including those atheists/materialists who cannot see that they are also victims of the system.

Seeing that you refuse to read “Why Darwinism is incompatible with the Qu’ran” by Harun Yayha i will include a few extracts from the book for the benefit of those other Muslims who also might share the misconceptions concerning this subject – after which as sincerety calls for they should abandon such an erroneous perspective.

(1) Darwinism is a theory that lacks any scientific foudation, and that it’s real target is religion. Therefore it is wrong for Muslims to underestimate it, and to see no need to wage an intellectual struggle against it.
Believers should avoid defending this theory and it’s ideological meaning, for both contradict the truths of Islam. Some may support the theory because they are unaware of the disasters it has visited upon humanity., that it is supported by people who hate religion, and reject the fact of creation.

(2) Darwinists encourage the creation-by-evolution view to appease supporters of creation or “intelligent design” so that they can weaken their intellectual position against the dogma of Darwinism.
This compromise is being encouraged so that evolution will become more acceptable and belief in creation will weaken. It is an idea designed to support materialist philosophy.

(3) Rejecting evolution does not mean rejecting science -
Evolution it has been pointed out many times above has been invalidated and only kept alive through propaganda and demagogy.

(4) Drawing wrong conclusions from the evolutionists being in the majority scenario – Arda Denkel a Turkish Evolutionist says: – “Does the fact that many respected people or organisations or bodies beleive in it prove the theory of evolution to be true? Could it be proved through a court verdict? Just because respected & powerful people believe in it? The example of Galileo.
Gaining the support of respected and influential circles neither creates the truth nor has anything to do with scientific fact.”

In the last 30 years the number of scientists rejecting it has risen and have published countless works concerning it.

Also like i have said several times before the Qu’ran says in:
6:116 “If you obeyed most of those on earth, they would guide you away from Allah’s Way. They follow nothing but conjecture. They are only guessing.”

(5) Evolution is a Pagan idea from Sumer first and then Greece eg Empedocles (5th cent bce), Thales (d.547 bce) and Anaximander (d.547 bce) of Miletus and Aristotle. It was later picked up in the 19th century by materialists and expanded upon
See the rest of chapter for more detail.

(6) Darwinism has led humanity from one disaster to another (Communism, fascism and neo-corporate capitalism)
It is a racist ideology.(see book – The disasters darwinism brougt to humanity)

(7) And Finally in the Chapter :- THE ERRORS OF THOSE WHO USE QUR’ANIC VERSES TO PROVE EVOLUTION.

Some Muslims who believe in evolution accept is as scientific fact and thus approach the Qu’ran with the idea that it confirms evolution.
They load every word that might have an evolutionary interpretation with meanings that it cannot bear.

When the Qu’ran is regarded as a whole or verses seen in their context (before & after) it becomes clear that the explanations offered are forced and invalid.

The Qu’ran in no way supports evolution particularly the “CHANGING FROM ONE SPECIES INTO ANOTHER” idea

This chapter goes into detail concerning all those verses
INCLUDING YOURS(Moses) and completely and utterly refutes them one by one.

ONCE A MUSLIM KNOWS THAT THE QU’RAN DOES NOT SUPPORT EVOLUTION AND NEITHER DOES SCIENCE – IT BECOMES (with free will of course) INCUMBENT ON HIM/HER TO ABANDON IT FROM THE ISLAMIC POINT OF VIEW AS WELL AS FOR ANY SINCERE/OBJECTIVE AND CONSCENTIOUS HUMAN BEING.

I will conclude with The Glorious Qu’ran:- 21:18

“Rather We hurl the truth against falsehood and it cuts right trough it and it vanishes clean away! Woe without end for what you portray!

i think i made my points clear enough in my above writings. (beginning at May 11 & ending at May 21) so i hope all the truth-seeking Christians & Muslims & Others may read and understand all the critical points made in those writings, and then unite under one true perfect God, via/through His scientific –Evolutionary Creation–wisdom/concept.

i did relate all those critical views/informations neither to some fanatic evangelicals and nor to some other fanatics who follow –knowingly or unknowingly– in their footsteps, because i already knew that it may not be beneficial to them at all (as it did not benefit them for 100 years by now), for some well-understood reasons –which i also tried to explain above a little bit.
(= Evolutionary Creation concept may certainly undermine this false Evangelical doctrine that: Human beings are instantaneously created & made immune from any kind of –past and future– evolution & perfect God-like creatures!! and so Jesus was a perfect God-incarnate!! sent among them.)

———-
and by the way, i guess one “daylight” and one “night” can also be understood as “long periods of daylights” and “long periods of nights” in Bible, as one “day” is also definitely given/understood in the Psalms as “long periods of days.” (= a thousand years) (90/4)
———-

so all truth-seeking Christian & Muslim & Jews & Other friends, see you again –God willing– soon before the presence of our only perfect God, and all His righteous humble Prophets, and believers. salaam.

Posted by musa - moses | Report as abusive

brother joe, you have said to moses above:

(Why are you preaching about Isa (as) to me
when as a Muslim i know the real story concerning him. What has that got to do with the subject?
The Myth of Evolution or thhe Fact of Creation?)

brother, I think you really never understood what moses is talking and giving evidences about in the above writings.

the relation between believing “Evolutionary Creation” and “Worshipping God alone.”

and the relation between totally rejecting “Evolutionary Creation” and “Worshipping instead Jesus as God Incarnate.”

please, read those writings & evidences again; this time a little bit more carefully, please!

and brother joe, you again said to moses above:

(We -christians & muslims- both believe in God (we should set aside our differences for now) and Creation and we both repudiate and refute evolution and atheism/materialism systems which currently dominate in the world.)

are you really “aware” brother what is going on here…?
some christians (millions worldwide) horrendously mistakenly believe that “God is Jesus!!” (and this kind of blasphemous belief is harshly condemned both in Quran and Gospel in the strongest ways. Quran 5/17 & Mark 10/18 & Matthew 4/10)

and there are some very prominent & knowledgeable righteous Christians now worldwide (like scientist Hoimar Von Ditfurth etc. mentioned above) by understanding & accepting “Evolutionary Creation” concept, they are questioning this blasphemous wrong belief and inviting all the other Christians to abandon this blasphemous practice and instead to “worship God alone” (as Jesus commanded to all Christians, Matthew 4/10) based on this “Evolutionary Creation” concept,

but you are still recommending us here to ignore all this fact (and all the Scientific & Quranic data about “Evolutionary Creation” concept) and instead refute evolution completely (for the sake of some delusional & ignorant evangelical anti-evolutionary arguments!!)

and these kind of some ignorant & biased “anti-evolutionary” evangelicals are also controlling and
dominating now (openly or covertly) in many parts of the world (and in many islamic regions) with their ignorant & biased pseudo-scientific & pseudo-religious agenda…

I think we should never side with such ignorant & delusional mistaken believers (FALSE FOLLOWERS OF MESSIAH), (Mark 10/18 & Matthew 6/22-23) (Quran 5/17 & 51)
but we should always side with the knowledgeable & realistic truthful believers. (TRUE FOLLOWERS OF MESSIAH JESUS). (Matthew 4/10) (Quran 3/55 & 2/62)

Posted by ahmad | Report as abusive

To Ahmad I have dealt with this MANY times above but it is conveniently being ignored. Am i dealing with SPELL-BOUND individuals here? This is truly unbelievable.

This is a site where The Fact of Creation , The Myth of Evolution or \”middle-way\”(creation via evolution) seeking brainwashed, inferiority complex suffering , weak and apologetic brothers is being discussed.

We therefore should set our differences aside concerning other issues with the Cristians and unite on like i said
COMMON TERMS. Other issues can be dealt with elsewhere on other sites where it is the subject matter (more relevant).

I do not care how many names you give of scientists prominent or otherwise – whether they are few or many (and i can also give you names of those who do not) – who believe in this ILLUSORY non-existent middleway because AND HERE WE NEED TO GO AGAIN!:

THERE IS NO S.C.I.E.N.T.I.F.I.C E.V.I.D.E.N.C.E for EVOLUTION

THE QU\’RAN D.O.E.S N.O.T S.U.P.P.O.R.T EVOLUTION in any way whatsoever.

I have urged you to look into the matter where i have offered MOUNTAINS OF EVIDENCE ABOVE.

ONCE AGAIN AM I DEALING WITH SPELL-BOUND INDIVIDUALS HERE?

This is i swear by Allah definately the last time that i am discussing the matter of creation by evolution with brothers. Whatever you want to continue and insist on saying my REPLIES HAVE ALREADY BEEN GIVEN ABOVE.

I am only available for discussion with those atheists/materialists who in desperation and out of sentimental insistance (wishfull thinking i.e those who follow their whims and desires) insist in propagating a theory which has been murdered and is only awaiting it\’s relegation to the trash heap of history.

It is on a \”LIFE-SUPPORT MACHINE\” with obviously means NO WAY BACK!

And unlike with a human patient there should be no hestitancy here to SWITCH IT OFF! It is only being kept alive for ideological reasons (Materialism) via deception and propaganda. It is surely only a matter of time.
Insha Allah
Wassalaam Yusuf Salah-uh-Din Morreale

CORRECT HISTORY REGARDING THE HISTORY OF SCIENCE

The majority of individuals believe that the sciences are exclusively Western inventions. No one would consider that it would be otherwise. Yet, this issue has never been analysed systematically.

A review of the standard texts/encyclopedia support the idea that all the key sciences are Western, particularly true of the basic texts used to teach children, teenagers, and college students.

Most texts give little or no mention of the advancements made by ancient Indian, Persian, African, Chinese or particularly Muslim scholars.

The problem is that Westerners have long been credited with discoveries made centuries prior by Islamic Scholars. A lot of this has been omitted from the historical records.

The majority of the basic sciences were invented by non-Europeans – Chemistry, physics, optics, algebra, trigonometry, basic arithmatic, mathematical astronomy, modern medicine, pharmacology, geography, ethnography and geology are all non-western inventions.
Yet few if any individuals , even history teachers have any clue of this fact.

THE FACT THAT THE WEST OWES THE CREATION OF THE SCIENCES TO OTHER CIVILIZATIONS IS DOCUMENTED BY THE WORLD\’S TOP HISTORIANS OF SCIENCE:- eg
George Sarton, Harvard\’s greatest scientific historian
Robert Briffault states that Islam was categorically the source of the development of European science
Thomas Goldstein, one of the US\’s premier medeival historians says that ALL of the DETAIL-ORIENTED sciences are strictly products of Islam
Others like Hill, Durant, Bernal, Renan, De Vaux, Humbolt and dozens of others have described data poving the vast extent of the Islamic contribution.

The importance of teaching the correct history is of crucial importance as it affects interaction, how people view eachother whether negatively or positevly.
False history must be regarded seriously and historical errors must be corrected.
Many people would find it horrifying to beleive that their understanding of history and therefore their impression of the world around them is incorrect. To promote tolerance and understanding between peoples it is vital that correct history is taught.
It would lead to the development of an essential component for development of civilization: tolerance and open minds.

GENERAL HISTORY

Western historians claim that the EXPERIMENTAL METHOD is the very basis of modern science and that whoever is its inventor deserves credit for THE CREATION OF THE MODERN WORLD. S.H. Pasha and William Durrant have clearly shown that the Muslims conducted the world\’s first DETAILED scientific experiments and therefore by the modern world\’s own definition Islam deserves the credit for the creation of the modern, civilized existence.

(1) CURRENT INFO – Modern Science originated in a secular environment and therefore God should not be mentioned in modern classroom

CORRECT INFO – Modern science originated precisely in the environment of the worship of Almighty God during Islamic civilization of 610- 1650 CE as stated by top historians above.
The most productive phase in history , that is the creation of the precise sciences , was accomplished by people who thoroughly BELIEVED in and FEARED the power and command of Almighty God.

(2) CURRENT INFO – The modern sciences were invented by western and/or European scientists stimulated by the Renaissance, they used the powers of reason tio independently develop the sciences.

CORRECT INFO – Western Scientists adopted their sciences strictly from outside sources eg via numerous Latin translation of Arabic texts.
In fact all of Europe\’s top scientists, including Galileo, Newton, Kepler, Lavoisier, Brahe and Copernicus.
The works of Investigators like Roger Bacon, Pope Slyvester II and St Thomas Aquinas were Islamic in origin.

(3) CURRENT IFO – Galileo (17th cent) was world great experimenter.

CORRECT INFO – al-Biruni 11th cent was. Literary output of some 13,000 pages far exceeeding Galileo and Newton combined.

(4)CURRENT INFO – Modern Science originated in Western Europe who wrote the first truly scientific books, baseed upon original Greek manuscripts.

CORRECT INFO – It originated in the lands of Islam where tens of thousands of scientific books were produced in Europe and they were filled with detailed scientific experiments. This was during the Islamic Empire period, a period where Europe was in first: The Dark Ages and then the periods of the Inquisitions when it was mired in religious bigotry which suppressed all who pursued independent learning.

Bernard Lewis says that the Greeks engaged mainly in theoretical sciences and VERY LITTLE in experimental science. The Arabs i.e the Muslims instead did the opposite. Whatever was usefull in Greek works the Arabs translated it and took it on board and descarded the majority which was of no use.

For more detail concerning the above look into book:

SCIENCE IN THE NAME OF GOD – DR Kasem Khaleel, a physician, historian and scholar from from U.S.

Also Harun Yayha THE QU\’RAN LEADS THE WAY TO SCIENCE
which describes mainly how many great scientists from the West in the
recent past have been believers in God

I want to conclude by saying:

IN THE PAST THE MUSLIMS ACHIEVED ALL THEY DID BECAUSE OF SINCERETY OF BELIEF AND FEAR OF GOD (something which in the main is lacking today.
THEIR MENTALITY WAS BASED UPON ACCOUNTABILITY TO GOD AND HENCE ANYTHING THEY (EG SCIENTIFIC) DID WOULD BE FOR THE BENEFIT OF HUMANITY/ENVIRONMENT.

Now contrast this with today – How the majority of scientists mainly in the West have done and are doing
to the people/environment via the inventions of nuclear/chemichal weapons, artificial foods, pollution, the encouragment of immorality and so on
etc and all this for what? –

IN THE NAME OF FAME, SELF-CENTREDNESS, CARREERS, PRESTIGE AND GREED THEY ARE DESTROYING THE EARTH AND THEMSELVES!

And course this has found a FALSE SCIENTIFIC backing(Darwinian/ survival of the fittest) which they believe fuels progress and evolution

Insha Allah not far of in the future the revival of the spirit of old in the Muslims will once again like they did ( 610- 1650 they produced the most sophisticated and greatest empire/civilization) in the past bring light and benefit and peace to the World once again.

brother joe, you said above:
==========
This is a site where The Fact of Creation , The Myth of Evolution or \”middle-way\”(creation via evolution) seeking

= brainwashed,
= inferiority complex suffering,
= weak and apologetic brothers

is being discussed!!!)
==========

the fact that you thus vilify many knowledgeable & righteous prominent Christian and Muslim scientists and scholars and all the believers around the world who believe in “Evolutionary Creation” concept with these derogatory terms may really be very unpleasant/worrisome brother, in the first place.

==========
We therefore should set our differences aside concerning other issues with the Cristians and unite on like i said
COMMON TERMS!!!
==========

so your calling us here

= to unite with fanatic “anti-evolutionary” evangelicals who falsely advocate the “worshipping of Jesus as God incarnate” (against God’s will, Mark 10/18 & Quran 5/17)
mainly –falsely– based on this anti-evolutionary & instantaneous creation model,
(as discussed in detail at the above writings)

= to stay away from some righteous “evolutionary-creationist” Christians who rightfully advocate “worshipping God alone” (like Jesus himself did, in accordance with God’s will, Matthew 4/10 & Quran 19/36)
mainly –rightfully– based on this evolutionary creation model,

may again be extremely ungenial/worrisome brother. (Quran 5/17 X 3/55)

==========
THERE IS NO S.C.I.E.N.T.I.F.I.C E.V.I.D.E.N.C.E for EVOLUTION

THE QU\’RAN D.O.E.S N.O.T S.U.P.P.O.R.T EVOLUTION in any way whatsoever.
==========

these may unfortunately be your (anti-evolutionary evangelical influenced) uninformed/biased assumptions, brother.
because there may be many scientific evidences that show us “evolutionary creation” path of life on earth.
as majority of scientists on earth today –theists or/and atheists– accepts and presents all the related evidences in many credible scientific arenas around the world. (your shutting your eyes or trying to distort many of them with some uninformed/biased arguments/perspectives unfortunately may not discredit them or make them go away at all, as you would very much only wish…)

and the Quran may basically be supporting and showing us “Evolutionary Creation” path with many miraculous verses:

= in the beginning, God may have created all the universe & heavenly beings “out of bang” (creation of first elements etc.) and then evolved it (as we see it today); (anbeeyaa 30)

and all living-things “out of water” (creation of first amino acids etc.) and then evolved it (as we see it today); (anbeeyaa 30)

= then God may have evolved/spread every living-things on earth in “common ancestry” (= atvaaran) method. (nooh 13-14)

= then God may have brought out first human beings after a “long period of time” (= heynun men addahre) out of some –humanlike– primates (= qavman aahareen) as a “successor” (= haleefatan) to them and all the other creatures on earth. (insaan 1 & anaam 133 & baqara 30)
(and again your shutting your eyes or trying to distort these kind of some miraculous verses with some uninformed/biased arguments/perspectives unfortunately may not discredit them or make them go away at all,
as many prominent muslim scholars and scientists and
many other believers also definitely & clearly understands these verses exactly in this way today…)
———-
(and one very important note here is that: the muslim scholars who did not understand these kind of verses
in tune with contemporary “big-bang creation” or “evolutionary creation” models in the past ages, of course, should be utterly “blameless” in the eyes of God, because they could never know it in those ages.
so may God bless and reward each and every of them with their many righteous works forever.
because if they lived today and knew what we know now, they would, undoubtedly, be on the “right side” in this argument.)
———-

= and we may even now be open to further evolutionary process in the way our God wishes. (ibraheem 19)

= and not only human beings but even the angels may be open to further evolutionary processes –by being increased in the number of wings etc.– anytime God may wish. (faater 1)

but only our God himself never evolves,
neither in past nor in future, because He is the only “Instantaneous & Perfect One” from all past-eternities to all future-eternities.

and all righteous prophets & human beings and angels willingly & humbly accept this “Evolutionary Creation”
concept, in order to verily exalt our only “Unevolutionary/Perfect” God.

but only Satan and the ones who –knowingly or unknowingly– follow after him do never accept or like this “Evolutionary Creation” concept.
because they want that God create a special species “instantaneously” & “immune from all past and future evolution” –just like Him– in the perfect physical image of Him!!
and then He send to these perfect Godlike creatures a perfect God Incarnate messenger!!

==========
This is i swear by Allah definately the last time that i am discussing the matter of creation by evolution with brothers…
==========

brother, you’d better never block yourself out in the face of these kind of truthful discussions.
so please, better be absolved from your swear (maaedah 89) first, and then please continue to listen & respond (positively, God willing)…

===========
It is on a \”LIFE-SUPPORT MACHINE\” with obviously means NO WAY BACK!
===========

yes brother, something is really on a “Life Support Machine” right now, but i think it is only:

= “anti-evolutionary” false evangelical doctrine,
= “anti-reality” false gnostic doctrine,

as discussed above in detail at some critical writings (from May 11 through may 21)

==========
It is only being kept alive for ideological reasons (Materialism) via deception and propaganda.
==========

yes, this assumption also may be %100 true, but mainly for “anti-evolution” ideology (= Evangelism),
for/with deep Evangelical reasons & deception & propaganda worldwide, and of course under the DISGUISE of “Battle Against Materialism”…

but on the other hand, I think it (= evolution idea) may in general still be very much alive and up, worldwide,
mainly because of many powerful/credible evidences that support it.

and because of many –theist or/and atheist– scientists are still hardily working on it and finding new amazing clues/evidences about it every day…

and also because many righteous believers –Christians & Muslims & Jews etc.– are supporting the research and teaching of evolution(ary creation) worldwide.

and also many atheists all over the world may/will be coming close to God when they hear these kind of miraculous verses, which clearly indicates “big bang” and “evolutionary creation” concept together in our wonderful Scripture. (anbeeya 30 & nooh 13-14 & …)

===========
Modern Science originated in a secular environment and therefore God should not be mentioned in modern classroom
===========

God is always being mentioned/commemorated in classrooms in the hearts of all believing Scientists and students etc. today anyway; no one should or can prevent this;
but because that

= God himself can never be observed with our five senses, (Anaam 103)

= His Angels can never be observed with our five senses,
(Waaqeah 85)

= His inspiration and communication with the universe and all things in it can never be observed with our five senses, (israa 44)

the science (= essentially based on what we CAN observe with our five senses) and the religion (= essentially based on what we CANNOT observe with our five senses) are accepted as “different/separate disciplines” today in many democratically founded mostly developed (= which has, average, basic freedom of religion & thought) countries.
so because that science must be for all of us –whether we are theists or atheists– and we only have our five senses in common –theists or atheists– when we are doing science we only mention what we CAN observe
with our five senses. to go beyond this and impose any belief upon this may also be against our God’s commandment. (baqara 256) yes, we can and should call everyone to God in appropriate platforms by using many scientific findings (including critical Big Bang and Evolutionary findings of course), but we should never impose or dictate it upon other people in scientific (= what is essentially based on only our five senses) classrooms… (baqara 256)

so among all theists & atheists & agnostics & others
the ones who got this precious/practical common perspective have no difficulty in doing science together, and these kind of people also have no difficulty in understanding & comprehending Evolution and working on it together, as much as possible.

===========
THE QU\’RAN LEADS THE WAY TO SCIENCE
which describes mainly how many great scientists from the West in the
recent past have been believers in God
===========

yes, but do you know how many of these Great Theistic Scientists have also believed and supported
“Evolution(ary Creation)?

many of them? or most of them? or all of them?

==========
IN THE PAST THE MUSLIMS ACHIEVED ALL THEY DID BECAUSE OF SINCERETY OF BELIEF AND FEAR OF GOD (something which in the main is lacking today.
==========

there are great muslim scientists today all over the world (though few not many) who are not lacking neither belief nor fear of God, and guess what:
most of them may also be supporting Evolution(ary Creation).
(forgive me i forgot, they were only “apologetic weak muslims” of our time; so we should not have counted any of them at all?!)

==========
IN THE NAME OF FAME, SELF-CENTREDNESS, CARREERS, PRESTIGE AND GREED THEY ARE DESTROYING THE EARTH AND THEMSELVES!
And course this has found a FALSE SCIENTIFIC backing(Darwinian/ survival of the fittest) which they believe fuels progress and evolution
==========

to see the “survival of the fittest” concept a person need not to believe Darwin or anything, but only he should just look around:

in school,
in bussiness,
in sport, etc.

if you work/study hard, and prepare yourself, and fit into your ever changing working/studying conditions/environment well, you will “survive,”
but if not you will fail and be eliminated.
and our God has also already informed us about this worldly “rivalry/competition” (= aduvvan) among us in His scripture as part of a “God Written Test” upon us. (baqara 36) but He also informed us that our rivalry/competition among us shall be a little bit different from animals in the wild. (Muddaththir 50-51)

= we shall absolutely not shed each others’ blood like wild animals do to each other. (baqara 30-33)

= we shall definitely take care of all the fallen/failed ones among us in our (God-Written) rivalry/competition; (aaraaf 24 & balad 14-18) we shall not strike anyone
down and abandon them like wild animals do to each other; but we shall always act with great SUPPORT & CARE & MERCY for each and every human being among us. (balad 17)
(and only if we can make it to paradise, hopefully all together, after this, there shall never be any rivalry/competition among human beings there in any subject whatsoever anymore, because the test is happily over now = yaaseen 55-58)

after all, did not our God specifically “evolved” our great ancestors as modern human beings out of some –a little bit wild– humanlike “primates” (= qavman aahareen) to be a precious “successor” (= haleefatan) on earth, (baqara 30 & anaam 133)
but even the angels may not have understood this at first, and they thought that these too would be “animalistic & blood shedding” creatures like the previous –a little bit wild– humanlike primates, from whom they came out? (baqara 30 & anaam 133)

———-
because that angels are said to definitely not know “future” (= gaybu, 27/65) they must have assumed this, by observing this miraculous Evolutionary process, as it might have occurred just in front of their eyes,
but then they must have wrongly thought that this new creature will be same –as wild– as the old ones.
of course, they might not have had any idea about what God would give –in terms of new Body & Spirit and
Knowledge– to this new precious creature,
and then even the angels would be commanded to prostrate before him.
———-
but God already knew what they could not have even imagined before… (baqara 30-33)

so despite all these facts, if there are still many animalistic (= blood shedding or greedy or wild or self centered etc.) creatures among us (and unfortunately there are and will always be as part of our worldly test = aaraaf 179),
it is definitely not our God’s fault,
and not His “Evolution’s” fault,
but only those human beings’ fault,
who could not “evolve” enough yet, as to reach our great ancestor Adam’s honorable/knowledgeable “Evolutionary Position & Understanding & Spirit.” (baqara 30-33, 37 & anaam 133) X (aaraaf 179)

so this is a little bit of the “theistic version” of Evolution…

and the Evolution(ary Creation) idea must have been hinted at/suggested by some prominent muslim and christian scholars & scientists in history long before Darwin.
but some (especially young earth creationist) fanatic Evangelical masterminds –still are and– have always been trying to cloud/cover up the “big bang creation” and “evolutionary creation” concepts by only giving the extreme atheistic versions & interpretations of this two great scientific theories of our time, and thus trying to demonize them, and trying to prevent the believers from rightfully seeing all the well-documented evidences/facts for themselves regarding these issues,
because of some well-known reasons & anxieties explained a little bit in some of the above writings.
for this reason, i urge all the righteous believers
-–Christians & Muslims & Jews etc.–- here to look up and learn the “theistic versions & interpretations” of these two great scientific theories of our time -–both of which may have been basically confirmed together in the same verse in our wonderful Scripture 21/30–- and see for themselves how rightfully & wisely they may have been explained by many intelligent & knowledgeable prominent Theistic scholars and scientists of our time.

Posted by evolutionary creation | Report as abusive

ALHAMDULILLAH
You can write at length as much as you like and keep out of stubborn pride clutching at straws. Like i said my replies are all above (start at 11th April) and they are IRREFUTABLE. I will not repeat things as i swore an oath.

You can keep going away for long periods and trying to prepare as much as you like and then also present yourself/ves ANONYMOUSLY i.e evolutionary creation!

IT IS A MANIFESTLY VAIN ENDEAUVOUR – THERE IS NO WAY OUT.

YUSUF SALAH UH DIN MORREALE – A BELIEVER IN FACT-BASED
CREATION – WITHOUT THE DISPROVEN AND INVALIDATED MYTH/FAIRY TALE BASED THEORY OF EVIL-UTION!

By the way following the Big Bang there has been evolution BUT it has clearly been GUIDED (never by chance) and directed by Allah swt all the way and is continuosly so too.

This though has nothing to do with The theory of evolution in regards to how LIVING THINGS came about on earth – according to evolutionists or creationists by evolution

In other words via the cartoon/fairy-tale style changing from one species to another eventually arriving at humans!
It has NEVER HAPPENED this way – either by chance or by Allah swt creating it that way. PERIOD

SERIOUSLY WHAT IS THE MATTHER WITH YOU?!

For further DETAIL on how there is NO EVIDENCE for EVOLUTION – and the many although not commonnly known (uhm, i wonder why?!) ADMISSIONS BY Evolutionists themselves SEE ABOVE.

- THERE IS TRULY NOTHING TO IT BEYOND THE IMAGINATION + SPECULATION FUELLED BY VAIN WISHFULL-THINKING!

see like i said all my comments fromm 11 April downwards.

And i have already said that just because we have our differences with Cristian evangelists regarding other matters , IT DOES NOT MEAN then that we have to disagree
on EVERYTHING ELSE!

If some of them/or many reject eg The Big Bang (and they are wrong in doing so of course) this is due to the fact that it is not in the Bible.
This does not alter the fact that we should seek COMMON TERMS with them especially those who are not hostile and are open to inter-faith dialogue.

It is a most noble thing to do because as i have said many times before we both aggree, that by going back to the scriptures we can find many commonalities that can bring about solutions to the problems of mankind.

To those who are hostile we obviously defend ourselves on the intellectual front and also by physical means if need be.
Remember that there are many good people amongst them.

For the benefit of those believers in evolution and not creation who have not got the time to go through all the comments above. They are so far 96 in total!

THE REFUTATION OF A MYTH (EVOLUTION)

Block capital emphasis are mine

I am going to show how evolution is nonsense and not supported by any scientific evidence – with many admissions which are unknown to many – and the pschological reasons behind insistent belief in it despite of the concrete evidence against it

THE MOLECULAR IMPASSE OF EVOLUTION

The probability of of an average protein molecule being formed by chance is ZERO. “1″ OVER 10 950. i.e 1 followed by 950 zeros!

Fred Hoyle says: “It is comparable with a tornado sweeping through a junk-yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein”

Chandra Wickramasinghe says: “The likelihood of the spontaneous formation of life from inanimate matter (there are 200,000 different types of proteins in a human cell) is one to a number with 40,000 zeros after it… IT IS BIG ENOUGH TO BURY DARWIN AND THE WHOLE THEORY OF EVOLUTION. There was NO PRIMEVAL SOUP, neither on this planet nor on any other, and if the beginnings of life were not random, they must have been the product of PURPOSEFUL INTELLIGENCE.

MILLER’S EXPERIMENT – NOTHING BUT MAKE BELIEVE

Admitted by evolutionist science magazine EARTH FEB 1998 issue: Geoligists now think that the primordial atmosphere consisted mainly of carbon dioxide and nitrogen, gases that are less reactive than those used (methane and ammonia) by Miller 1953 experiment. And even if Miller’s atmosphere could have existed, how do you get simple molecules such as amino acids to go through chemichal changes that will CONVERT them into MORE COMPLICATED COMPOUNDS or polymers such as PROTEINS?

Miller himself throws up his arms at that part of the puzzle. “It’s a problem,” he sighs with exasperation. “How do you make polymers? That’s not so easy”

Harold Urey, Miller’s teacher who organised the Miller experiment confesses:
“All of us who study the origin of life find that the more we look into it, THE MORE WE FEEL IT IS TOO COMPLEX TO HAVE EVOLVED ANYWHERE. We all believe AS AN ARTICLE OF FAITH that life evolved from DEAD MATTER on this planet. It is just that its COMPLEXITY is so great, it is HARD FOR US TO IMAGINE that it did.”

Andrew Scott says:
“Take some matter, heat while stirring and wait. That is the modern version of Genesis. The ‘fundamental’ forces of gravity, electromagnetism and the strong and weak nuclear are presumed to have done the rest…BUT how much much of this neat tale is FIRMLY ESTABLISHED, and how much remains HOPEFUL SPECULATION? In truth, the mechanism of almost every major step, from chemichal precursors up to the first recognizable cells, is the subject of either CONTROVERSY or COMPLETE BELWIDERMENT.”

DNA – CAN IT COME INTO BEING BY CHANCE?

If we were to write down the information coded in DNA of a single cell, then we would have to compile a giant library consisting of 900 volumes of 500 pages each.
And all this info is encoded inside of the DNA molecules in the cell nucleus, which is far smaller than the 1/100th of a millimetre long cell itself!

Frank Salisbury comments on this impossibility:
” A medium protein might include about 300 amino acids. The DNA gene controlling this would have about 1,000 nucleotides in its chain. Since there are four kinds of nucleotides in a DNA chain, one consisting of 1,000 links could exist in 41000 forms. Using a little algebra (logarithms) we can see that 41000 = 10600. Ten multiplied by itself 600 times gives the figure 1 followed by 600 zeros! THIS NUMBER IS COMPLETELY BEYOND OUR COMPREHENSION.”

FRANCIS CRICK:
” An HONEST man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that, in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment almost A MIRACLE.”

THE FOSSIL RECORD – RICH IN TRANSITIONAL FORMS OR ABSENT OF THEM?

Henry Gee , the editor of the journal NATURE says:

“Many of the assumptions we make about evolution, especially concerning the history of life as understood from the fossil record are however BASELESS.
We INVENT these stories, after the fact, to justify the history of life according to OUR OWN PREJUDICES.”

Professor S.M Stanley of John Hopkins Univ:

“The known fossil record is not, and never has been, in accord with GRADUALISM. What is remarkable is that even the history of OPPOSITION HAS BEEN OBSCURED…
Since the majority of palaeontologists felt their evidence simply contradicted Darwin’s stress on minute
, slow, and cumulative changes leading to species transformation’… THEIR STORY HAS BEEN SUPPRESSED.”

MICHAEL RUSE:

“One must acknowledge that there are many , many gaps in the fossil record… There is no reason to think that all or most of these gaps will be bridged.”

Ian Tattersall and Niles Eldredge of the American Museum of Natural History:

The record jumps, and all the evidence shows that the record is real: the gaps we see reflect events in life’s history – and NOT the artifact of a poor fossil record.”

Ernst Mayr:
Paleontologists had long been aware of a seeming contradiction between Darwin’s postulate of gradualism….and the actual findingsof paleontology. Following phyletic lines through time seemed to reveal only minimal gradual changes but no clear evidence for any change of SPECIES INTO A DIFFERENT GENUS or the gradual origin of an EVOLUTIONARY NOVELTY. Anything truly always seemed to appear quite ABRUPTLY in the fossil record.”

STEPHEN JAY GOULD:

“STASIS. Most species exhibit no DIRECTIONAL CHANGE during their tenure on earth. They appear in the fossil record looking much the same as when they disappear; morphological change is usually LIMITED AND DIRECTIONLESS.”
SUDDEN APPEARANCE. In any local area , a species does not arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors; IT APPEARS ALL AT ONCE AND “FULLY FORMED.”

“The overwhelming prevalence of stasis became a embarrassing feature of the fossil record, but left IGNORED as a manifestation of nothing (that is non-evolution.”

All this means that the so-called mechanisms that cause evolution by Natural Selection via Mutations which do not add any new or beneficial info to the genes/DNA thereby fuelling evolution NEVER HAPPENED.
In fact so far all observed mutations in Labs on for eg countless generations of fruit flies have always shown to CAUSE DERRANGEMENT/FREAKS AND even DEATH. Any random intervention to DNA causes harm and NOT PROGRESSIVE EVOLUTION.

Collin Patterson says:
“NO one has ever produced a species by mechanisms of natural selection. NO ONE has ever got near it and most of the current argument in neo-darwinism is about this questions.”

The above are just a few examples of many that are available. See following Harun Yayha books: EVOLUTION DECEIT, THE DARK SPELL OF DARWINISM (PROPAGANDA) , DARWINISM REFUTED, A DEFINITIVE REPLY TO EVOLUTIONIST PROPAGANDA, A REPLY TO NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES BOOKLET ‘SCIENCE & CREATIONISM AND ATLAS OF CREATION FOR MUCH MORE DETAIL.

Now to conclude with some examples of why despite all the evidence some scientists or people still believe in this myth.

Richard C. Lewontin:

“It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us accept a material explanation of the world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our priory ADHERENCE TO MATERIAL CAUSES to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated.
MOREOVER, THAT MATERIALISM IS ABSOLUTE, SO WE CANNOT ALLOW A DIVINE FOOT IN THE DOOR.”

Dr Michael Walker of Sydney Uni:
“One is forced to conclude that many scientists and technologists pay lip-service to Darwinian theory only because it supposedly excludes a Creator…”

Fred Hoyle:
Indeed, such a theory (that life was assembled by an Intelligence) is so obvious that one wonders why it is not widely accepted as being SELF-EVIDENT. The reasons are PSYCHOLOGICAL rather than scientific.”

HUMAN EVOLUTION NONSENSE

As is crystal-clear from the evidence and admissions from evolutionists themselves regarding the fossil record, evolution has NEVER HAPPENED. ( certainly not the changing from one species into another)
Therefore it follows logically and conclusively that neither did humans.

Here are a few admissions regarding so-called human evolution:

Richard C. Lewontin from Harvard Univ:
“When we consider the remote past, before the origin of the actual species Homo Sapiens, we are faced with a FRAGMENTARY and DISCONNECTED fossil record. Despite the excited and optimistic claims that have been made by some paleontologists, NO FOSSIL HOMINID SPECIES can be ESTABLISHED as our DIRECT ANCESTOR.”

TIME magazine March 1994 issue:

“Yet despite more than a century (150 yrs) of digging, the fossil record remains maddeningly SPARSE. With so few clues, even a single bone that doesn’t fit into the picture can upset everything. Virtually every major discovery has put DEEP CRACKS in the conventional wisdom
(my quote: actually wishful-thinking) and forced scientists to concoct new theories, amid furious debate.”

Lord Zuckerman and Professor Charles Oxnard on Australopithecus – an ancient species of ape:

“Australopithecus was an ordinary species of ape and very DEFINITELY did NOT WALK UPRIGHT.”

“The skeletal structure of Australopithecus is like that of the present-day orangatuns.”

Well known French magazine SCIENCE et VIE May 1999 issue:
“Australopithecus and Homo(human) species do not appear on the same branch. Man’s ancestors are still waiting to be discovered.”

So we are left with an important VISUAL evolutionist propaganda tool:- RECONSTRUCTIONS

Earnst A . Hooten from Harvard Uni explains:

“To attempt to restore the soft parts is an even more hazardous undertaking. The lips, the eyes, and the nasal tip LEAVE NO CLUES on the underlying bony parts.
You can with equal facility model on a Neanderthal skull the feautures of a chimpanzee or the lineaments of a philosopher. These alleged restorations of ancient types
of man have VERY LITTLE if any SCIENTIFIC VALUE and are likely only to MISLEAD the public…
SO DO NOT PUT YOUR TRUST IN RECONSTRUCTIONS.”

Richard Leakey says that the differences between Homo erectus and modern man are no more than RACIAL VARIANCE:

“Such biological variation arises when populations are geographically separated from each other for significant
lengths of time.”

THE MISLEADING CLAIM THAT HUMAN AND APE GENOMES ARE 98 PERCENT SIMILAR

CNN WEBSITE SEPT 25 2002 reported that:

Human and genetic similarity is only about 95 percent

NEW SCIENTIST – A report entitled “Human-Chimp DNA Difference Trebled, dated Sept 23 2002 on its Internet site: – less than 95 percent similarity

NOW IN VIEW OF ALL THE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE AND THE ADMISSIONS OF EVOLUTIONISTS THEMSELVES ONE SHOULD ASK HIM/HERSELF THE FOLLOWING:

If anyone tried to prove evolution in a court of law and spoke for hours on end and presented books with hundreds of pages concerning it INCLUDING ALL THOSE ADMISSIONS
against it what would the Judge/s make of it?

Would he not realise that it is no more than hopeless speculation and deceptive propaganda AND THROW THE CASE RIGHT OUT?

AND IF ANYONE INSISTED HE MIGHT EVEN HAVE THEM JAILED FOR MOCKING OR EVEN PERHAPS COMMITTED FOR INSANITY?

I INVITE THOSE SINCERE AND OBJECTIVE PEOPLE WHO REALLY WANT TO KNOW THE TRUTH AND THAT ARE FREE FROM THEIR INCLINATIONS TO THEIR WHIMS AND DESIRES TO SEE THE MANIFEST TRUTH WHICH IS:

THE SOLID FACT OF CREATION. GOD’S SUBLIME CREATION
AND THAT EVOLUTION IS CLEARLY A MYTH. A SINISTER ONE TOO.

brother joe, you said above:
==========
By the way following the Big Bang there has been evolution BUT it has clearly been GUIDED (never by chance) and directed by Allah swt all the way and is continuosly so too.
==========

= yes, following the forming of first heavenly-beings (through first elements etc.) out of “bang” there has been evolution guided by God, and it may still be continuing…

= and yes, following the forming of first living-beings (through first amino acids etc.) out of “water” there has been evolution guided by God, and it may still be continuing…

this is what our God may have wondrously informed us
–regarding the origin of all heavenly-beings and the origin of all living-beings– in His Scripture, together, in one verse: (21/30)
and then He may have given to us further clues/evidences about “evolutionary creation progress/path” of all living-beings on earth by His will. (71/13-14 & 6/133 & 76/1 & …)

and in both of these two beginning & progressing evolutionary processes –of heavenly beings and of living beings–
all things may have surely been occurring on its own by/via full “inspiration/control” of our God;
but because this “inspiration/control” part cannot be observed by our five senses here, (17/44 & 41/11)
all these processes are defined as “random processes” (= pay attention please, not “processes by chance”
there is a big difference between these two definitions)
by Scientific standards.

so let me copy here again then one good example –cited in the above writings– regarding this critical/important basic perspective:

*************************
and in the Scripture we also learn that when God plans a process (=qada amran), then He only says to it “be” (=koon) and then it immediately starts to be (=feyakoonu), as He wishes.

for example, when God wants to create “iron,” He plans all the “stage by stage” process thereof beforehand, and then He says to it “be,”
and thereupon in the stars all the elements start to be from the simplest to the most complex (hydrogen & helium & lithium…) on its own in this “stage by stage” process, and then “iron” comes up in the advanced stages of this process, fully under His inspiration & command.
(but this inspiration & command part cannot be observed by our five senses, and for this reason this part is the “belief” part of this scientific phenomenon. (israa 44 & fussilat 11)
but up until here, this is a process scientifically observed and accepted by all theists and atheists together & alike.
and because that God’s inspiration & command and communication with all universe and in such processes cannot be observed by humans’ five senses, all these processes & mechanisms are called “random processes” by scientific standards.
so whoever wants, after this, s/he can believe that these random processes are totally
inspired & controlled –above our five senses– by the Creator; and whoever wants, after this, s/he can believe that these random processes are only of Natural source, and does not go further than that. there is no compulsion in our religion (baqara 256) beyond this point. we can only tell about the magnificence of all these mechanisms & processes and the magnificient final products thereof, and invite people to God based on this knowledge; but then the final decision regarding this important issue always rests with the individuals…
no compulsion beyond this point.

and we can apply this basic perspective to all the other scientific subjects as well, including big bang and our evolution of course.
*************************

yes, to know this rightful/basic perspective may highly be critical/important for all sincere believers;
because it is a well-known shrewd Evangelical tactic that:
–they have been using this for at least 100 years now–

when they want to repel believers from Big bang and Evolutionary creation concepts, they always use this “by chance” arguments, wrongfully, and in the first place.
they immediately give an immense chance/probability calculation regarding the issue, and then wrongfully claim that:

if it cannot occur –on its own– by chance??
then our God did it –with His own hands– by will!!

so brother, this same absent logic may also be true for your these evangelical based examples:

===========
The probability of of an average protein molecule being formed by chance is ZERO. “1? OVER 10 950. i.e 1
followed by 950 zeros!
Chandra Wickramasinghe says: “The likelihood of the spontaneous formation of life from inanimate matter (there are 200,000 different types of proteins in a human cell) is one to a number with 40,000 zeros after it…
==========

i hope, we have got the right answer now for such evangelical –wrongful– claims;
let me put it shortly again here like this:

= these miraculous –occurring on its own, without touching a hand– formations are defined as “random processes” by Scientific standards
because that the “inspiration/control by God” part cannot be observed by our five senses in these kind of miraculous spontaneous processes.

= yes, our God of course can do such miraculous spontaneous processes by His divine inspiration/communication with them,
without touching a hand to them, whenever He wishes. (36/82 & 17/44 & 41/11 & …)

and by the way, let me give you then here another evangelical –wrongful– example used against Big bang creation concept, with the same absent logic above:
the occurence of Big bang at the right moment, and then its successful evolutionary progression on its own,
probability/chance calculation must be:

10 x 10 x 123…
in the first place.
(this immense number is defined as
“38 times above what is deemed possible”
so it seems definitely impossible, right?)

and we have not even got here yet to the probability/chance calculations regarding the formations of new uncountable orderly stars & orderly galaxies etc.
on its own after Big bang… (each of them will certainly have lots of zeros regarding this probability/chance issue.)
so then in this very first step, we must immediately see the –evangelical– Truth! here
and then definitely submit ourselves and accept that:

the universe has not come out on its own and then evolved on its own by Big bang occurence –as evil materialists wrongfully claim–

but -evangelical- God did it, with His own hands, and instantly,
without any such –random & spontaneous– evolutionary occurrences/progresses etc. at all!!!

thank you, but let me not take this evangelical
–wrongful– arguments from the very start, let it remain/be only yours, not ours. (21/30 & 51/47)
cause our God is able to preplan and then cause to come out and then cause to progress every occurences (especially Big bang & Evolution) as on its own, and within God-chosen mechanisms, and in evolutionary steps, fully under His own wonderful inspiration/command…. (36/82) (21/30 & 51/47) (21/30 & 71/13-14 & 14/19 …)

==========
In other words via the cartoon/fairy-tale style changing from one species to another eventually arriving at humans!
It has NEVER HAPPENED this way – either by chance or by Allah swt creating it that way. PERIOD
==========

yes, brother; our God who was able to change some sinful human-populations into apes (2/65) –again with His initial command “Be,” and then under His preplanned awesome evolutionary path following thereof– in the past,
of course, is able to change any species into any –from the simplest to most complex– now/in the past, whenever He wishes/wished.
and it is definitely not a fairy tale for us; cause we seriously believe in His Word. (21/30 & 71/13-14 & 6/133 & 76/1 & 14/19…)
and thank God we may also see/infer now via many credible/powerful scientific evidences that:
He may have really used this wise “Evolutionary Creation” method from the very beginning.
so thank God again for His religiously & scientifically accurate this Wonderful Word.

===========
And even if Miller’s atmosphere could have existed, how do you get simple molecules such as amino acids to go through chemichal changes that will CONVERT them into MORE COMPLICATED COMPOUNDS or polymers such as PROTEINS?
===========

yes, by wondrous inspiration/control of our God, all these evolutionary progresses –on its own and without touching a hand– can be highly possible. (though they may again seem all impossible via probability/chance calculations.)
and hopefully, our God will show us all His evolutionary creation path –beginning from water and then evolving
to this day and probably into the future 21/30 & 14/19– and related Signs more accurately & clearly in near future, we should not so rush Him… (21/37 & 41/53)
instead, we should be thankful for what He has already shown to us up until now, that He may increase our knowledge, both in Big bang and Evolutionary creation paths…

and perhaps then many atheists & agnostics etc. may also hear this wondrous Word of our God, and may definitely return to this most-wise God, for their own benefit & eternal happiness.

===========
FRANCIS CRICK:
” An HONEST man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that, in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment almost A MIRACLE.”
===========

yes, this is what nearly all scientists –theists or atheists– should be thinking right now.
it is absolutely MIRACULOUS.
so who could have done it and then also informed us about it, and its marvelous inspirational evolutionary progressive path thereafter,
via His wondrous Word, except our glorious God?
(29/20 = 79/30-33 & 21/30 & 71/13-14 & 76/1 & …)

===========
STEPHEN JAY GOULD:
“STASIS. Most species exhibit no DIRECTIONAL CHANGE during their tenure on earth. They appear in the fossil record looking much the same as when they disappear; morphological change is usually LIMITED AND DIRECTIONLESS.”
SUDDEN APPEARANCE. In any local area , a species does not arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors; IT APPEARS ALL AT ONCE AND “FULLY FORMED.”
===========

yes, the evolution(ary creation) path/pace must be much quicker and more immediate, than once thought. (= as “punctuated equilibrium” proposed) rather than gradualism. because this is also what our God may have indicated to us in His marvelous Word:

———-
..and if He wants, He will make you vanish first, and then He will bring a “new creation” (= halqan cadeedan). (14/19)
———-

in this verse, our God may have given us wonderful hints/clues about evolutionary progressive steps (as of a major morphological change in a species, or appearance of a totally new species):

= first (a population of) a species may have been put in an unfavorable environment by our God, and thus have been made vanish (= yuzhebkum) initially (at least many or most of them)…

= and in this tough environment, a new –more suitable– evolved body or a totally new –more suitable– evolved species (= halqan cadeedan) must have descended from this vanishing (population of) species, quickly and wondrously by the mysterious inspiration/command of our God.
and perhaps this may be the basic and unchangable formula (= sunnatu Allah, 35/43) for evolutionary creation path/progress, by His will.
and this is also what Science may have come close (via punctuated equilibrium evolutionary idea) right now.

and we should never forget that in Big bang or in Evolution research there has and will always be many wrong propositions among right propositions in many areas of these two great scientific theories,
but we will learn the most accurate informations in the end, by our God’s grace and guidance.

===========
“The overwhelming prevalence of stasis became a embarrassing feature of the fossil record, but left IGNORED as a manifestation of nothing (that is non-evolution.”
===========

the renowned Theistic Scientist, the head of Human Genome Project, dr. Francis Collins –he together with his diligent scientific team mapped the human genome, which consist of 3 billion base pairs, recently in US– offered to all such anti-evolutionary skeptic people to show them the “common ancestry” and the “relatedness of all creatures” on earth by DNA comparisons and also via fossil records, as proofs of Evolutionary Creation.
(and this physical/genetical relatedness & similarity of all creatures on earth is also what our God may have wondrously and clearly conveyed to us already in His Scripture: 6/38)

you can reach his scientifically accurate & up-to-date comments at this address:

(www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.comme ntary/index.html)

===========
All this means that the so-called mechanisms that cause evolution by Natural Selection via Mutations which do not add any new or beneficial info to the genes/DNA thereby fuelling evolution NEVER HAPPENED.
===========

mutations and natural selection must certainly be among God-chosen mechanisms of the Evolutionary Creation,
(as God created mechanisms for all other creation occurences in our universe: forming of new stars and galaxies & forming of rain & typhoons & earthquake etc.)

and via DNA comparisons of all living-creatures,
and their proper/orderly fossil record,
majority of scientists –theist or atheist– today believe that Evolution(ary Creation) undoubtedly occurred,
but not all aspects have been clearly %100 understood/solved yet.
and God will hopefully teach to them and to us through them, when the right time comes. (21/37 & 41/53)

and this may also be true for Big bang creation concept.
but you may see some evangelical type objections and their taking advantage of some “not well-understood yet” aspects of Big bang to discredit completely this great & critical scientific theory of our time at this address:
(here both “evolution” and “big bang” is presented as a
–materialistic– “religion” rather than science in the first place, and then all the other well-known evangelical type slander stuff may be following…)

(www.earthage.org/EarthOldorYoung/The%20 Big%20Bang%20and%20the%20Age%20of%20the% 20Earth.htm)

(www.earthage.org/intro/A%20Closer%20Loo k%20at%20the%20Age%20of%20the%20Earth.ht m)

and here i also want to quote these highly critical
statements of a (young earth) creationist
that we may better understand the “main reason” behind the basic negative perspective of these kind of evangelicals against the Big bang and Evolution(ary) creation concepts:

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
= In reality though, this theory (Evolution) is nothing more than an attempt by men (whose knowledge is quite limited) to try and explain how they think we might have been created without a Creator.

= For this reason, the Big Bang theory goes hand in hand with the theory of Evolution, which is an attempt to do likewise.

= Small wonder that those who promote the Big Bang are also, more often than not, believers in Evolution.
(earthage.org & problems with bigbang)
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and here again i want to give some other basic (young earth) evangelical arguments/approach against Big bang creation concept
that we may also see how similar it is with the basic arguments/approach used against Evolution(ary Creation) concept in the first place.

—————-
= These include pointing out “scientific gaps” in the Big Bang model;

= arguments for an age of the universe in thousands rather than billions of years;

= the authority of scripture means that we have to accept that the “Big Bang is wrong;”

= and God is more likely to create in “seven days” rather than over billions of years.

= We might ask the question, If the Big Bang is how God creates, why does he use a process that takes billions of years?

The scientific answer is that it takes billions of years to make carbon inside stars for life to exist. However, we are still faced with the question,

= Why make carbon in that way?

To that there is no answer, although we must be clear that such a process in no way lessens God’s creative power. Indeed, some see such an intricate, patient, and elegant process as part of the heavens declaring the glory of God (Ps 19:1).
(** this last one must be the perspective of other christians who basically believe in Big bang creation concept. and of course, similar positive approach may be seen in these kind of righteous christians with the Evolutionary Creation concept also.)
—————-

===========
THE MISLEADING CLAIM THAT HUMAN AND APE GENOMES ARE 98 PERCENT SIMILAR
CNN WEBSITE SEPT 25 2002 reported that:
Human and genetic similarity is only about 95 percent
==========

…only a small %95 percent!?

and here is what our God may be teaching us in His wonderful eye-opening Word regarding this critical issue:

———-
all the creatures (including “apes” of course) on earth and all the birds that fly with wings are only congregations that are SIMILAR/SAME AS YOU (= amthaalukum)… 6/38
———-

so all the creatures on earth may also not be inferior to human beings at all PHYSICALLY, (6/38)
but perhaps they may only be inferior SPIRITUALLY, (2/65)
and perhaps this –spirit– must be the only thing
that makes the big difference between animals and human beings. (in this regard, please see again the “Spiritual advancement of Adam through Evolutionary creation” (6/133 & 2/30-33, 37) subject at the above writing: May 27)

===========
“Australopithecus was an ordinary species of ape and very DEFINITELY did NOT WALK UPRIGHT.”
“The skeletal structure of Australopithecus is like that of the present-day orangatuns.”
===========

these and all the other similar –mostly deliberate, or
taken out of context, or outdated– informations may be highly misleading. to know the latest up-to-date credible scientific understanding & evidences regarding the human evolution you may visit hundreds of scientifically/credible (respected by theist and atheist scientists together & alike worldwide) web sites;
here is just one of them: (www.mnsu.edu/emuseum/biology/humanevolu tion/)

but as i also said before, we should never forget that in science (this is true for Big bang and Evolution) everything is open to debate everytime, nothing is %100 for sure.
and there may also always be many wrong propositions among right propositions in many areas of these two great scientific theories of our time.
so our God and His wonderful Word should be the ultimate source for us to know the right from the wrong in these kind of debatable issues.
and the commonly held (by most theistic or atheistic Scientists) view today is: Human evolution may have undoubtedly occurred; this should be clear via fossil evidence. but who are whose direct ancestors, who are only branches may be debatable yet.

and here is what our God may wondrously be informing us regarding human evolution in His Word:

—————
…if He wants, He will make you go away, and He will make successors (like Adam was made a successor 2/30) after you whatever He wants,
like He has built you from descendants of a “different congregation” (= qavman aahareen: maybe hominids that were a little bit different than modern human beings.)
(6/133)
—————

and one last notable point here may be that:
one well-known shrewd evangelical tactic against this evolutionary progression concept:

if there is any fossil evidence as of a “transitional form” that may clearly show us evolutionary progression path of some species, then you should immediately deny it by making it into its closest species.

if it is closer to birds,
immediately say: it is just a bird!
if it is closer to reptiles,
immediately say: it is just a reptile!

if it is closer to apes,
immediately say: it is just an ape!
if it is closer to humans,
immediately say: it is just a human!

but the problem here is that: many times what some evangelicals call: just an “ape!”
the others call: just a “human!”

and this may also –a little bit– suggest us that the scientists may really be on the right path on this evolutionary progression issue today.

===========
Dr Michael Walker of Sydney Uni:
“One is forced to conclude that many scientists and technologists pay lip-service to Darwinian theory only because it supposedly excludes a Creator…”
===========

(Big bang or) Evolution theory does NOT exclude the Creator, in the first place,

unless one is of an evangelical faith or under the influence of this literal evangelical interpretation of the Scriptures,
and so –mistakenly– believing that:

= God created all the universe/heavenly-beings instantly and at once, with His own hands, without any evolutionary beginning/progression…

= then God created all the living-beings on earth instantly and at once, with His own hands, without any evolutionary beginning/progression…

and perhaps there is nothing that God and/or Science can do for these kind of “mistaken” minds…

but on the other hand, many other theistic –Christian & Muslim & Jew etc.– scientists & believers may/do believe and support Big bang and Evolution(ary) Creation concepts, worldwide.

and most of the atheists & agnostics etc. who chose to turn to God in their later days also may/do believe and support Big bang and Evolution(ary Creation) concepts, worldwide.

===========
And i have already said that just because we have our differences with Cristian evangelists regarding other matters , IT DOES NOT MEAN then that we have to disagree
on EVERYTHING ELSE!
===========

of course, we should not & we do not disagree with Evangelicals on EVERYTHING,
(they believe that Jesus is a real Prophet, and so do we. & they believe that there is hell or paradise after death, and so do we. & …)
but i think we must & we do disagree on one most CRITICAL/FUNDAMENTAL THING;
and that is:

= human beings have not been created

instantaneously,
immune from all past and future evolution,
–just like Him–

in the perfect physical Image of God,

= and so Jesus definitely was not sent to these Godlike!! creatures as a God Incarnate!! Messenger.

and our God now in this age may have revealed to us this wonderful –scientifically backed– “Evolutionary Creation” concept,
beside Jesus’ eye opening words in this issue,
that we may all come together and unite and worship our
one true Unevolutionary/Perfect God, (who is unlike anyone, 42/11)

and we may know that we are all just humble human beings that are product of an evolutionary creation,

so we are definitely not instantaneous & unevolutionary/perfect Godlike!! creatures,
and so Jesus was definitely not a perfect God Incarnate!! messenger…

but he was/is only a humble –but exceedingly Honorable–Servant of God, who worshipped God alone and commanded all the christians to follow him and do the same:

**********
Jesus said: Get away, satan! it is written:
The Lord, your God, shall you worship
and Him alone shall you serve. (Matthew 4/10)

Jesus said: why do you call me “good”?
no one is “good” but GOD alone. (Mark 10/18)
**********

as God had again scientifically backed and clearly
showed us in previous ages that:

our earth is not in the center of our solar system, nor our galaxy, nor the universe,
if this was the case, the idea that

= God of course sent His only perfect –God Incarnate!!–Messenger (Jesus) to the only central planet in the universe,

church doctrine –which fiercely fought against science in those ages probably specifically for this underlying religious reason for so many years– would also be standing today!

and this horrendously false claim (= Human Beings are instantaneously created, unevolutionary/perfect Godlike!! creatures, and so Jesus is perfect God Incarnate!! messenger sent to them) is described as a “Universe Shattering & Earth Crumbling” biggest blasphemy in the history of humanity, in the Scripture. (5/17 & 19/88-92) (Mark 12/29 & 10/18 & Matthew 4/10)

so any God-fearing sincere christian & muslim & jew etc. believers will definitely not turn their backs in this age to God’s –scientifically backed– “Evolutionary Creation” concept and the related rightful =

then let us, all together, worship our only
Instantaneous (from all past-eternities to all
future-eterneties) & Unevolutionary/Perfect God alone”
message…

and lastly, i want to relate here these eye-opening verses/warnings of the Scriptures, that we may exceedingly take care, and not be deceived by satan in this most critical age. (John 6/44-45) & (Quran 110/1-3)

**********
Jesus said: Get away, satan! it is written:
The Lord, your God, shall you worship
and Him alone shall you serve. (Matthew 4/10)

Jesus said: why do you call me “good”?
no one is “good” but GOD alone. (Mark 10/18)

Jesus said: many will say to me on that day:
lord, lord, did we not prophesy in your name,
did we not drive out demons in your name,
did we not do mighty deeds in your name?

then i will declare to them solemnly:
i never knew you. depart from me, you EVILDOERS! (Matthew 6/22-23)
**********

and this may be an awesome prophetical sign/warning (27/93) for us from our great prophet Muhammad, in Quran:

**********
…and the straying (= addalaalatu) became unavoidable upon some of them, because they took the satans (= gnostic “anti-reality” and evangelical “anti-evolutionary” ideologists) as masters for themselves other than Allah, but they think that they are definitely MAHDEES: muhtadoon) = guided/guiding ones! (aaraaf 30)
**********

(** the two basic branches of MESSIAH DAJJAAL (= False Messiah) ideology of our time (= Gnostic Anti Reality & Evangelical Anti Evolutionary) may have been exposed a little bit in some of the above writings, from May 15 to May 20…)

Posted by evolutionary creation | Report as abusive

Bro for the last time look at “Darwinism is incompatable with the Qu’ran” which refutes all the verses in which in line with your preconceptions and complexes you LOAD UP and ERRONEOUSLY see evolution.

Bro i want you to reflect seriously how dangerous what you are doing is. Allah says in the Qu’ran that He can Guide as well as Misquide people by certain of it’s Verses.
The verses which you see evolution in are an example of this and only a sincere heart can liberate itself of this sickness i.e interpretating the Qu’ran in line with one’s own whims and desires.

You keep ignoring all the EVIDENCE and the ADMISSIONS of evolutionsts which means anything you point out to therefore obviously DOES NOT AND CANNOT go beyond speculation and hypothesis which rest upon wishful-thinking and deceptive propaganda.

WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND?

BUT once a person has been made aware of the DECEPTION that is evolution there is no doubt that that person
can NO LONGER SINCERELY believe in it any longer. He is LYING to HIMSELF as well as OTHERS by insisting that he still does. ( A hopeless and vain endeavour indeed )

SEE “THE DARK SPELL OF DARWINISM – HOW DARWINISTS TWIST THE TRUTH TO TURN PEOPLE AWAY FROM GOD”

There is no doubt that you are in utter confusion and it clearly shows with your all over the place “explanations”.

To keep up to date continously with the latest propaganda
on evolution follow Harun Yayha’s website.You know it is all over but PRIDE is preventing you from admiting it and this is unbecoming of a good Muslim.
I am sorry if this is harsh but it is clear you are not worth my wasting any more time on.

BRO IT IS CLEAR AT THIS STAGE THAT YOU MUST BE UNDER A SPELL. THE ONLY SOLUTION THEREFORE IS THE FOLLOWING:

TURN TO ALLAH WITH A SINCERE HEART AND SEEK REFUGE IN HIM FROM SATAN THE ACCURSED.

ANOTHER VAIN ATTEMPT IN ORDER TO MAKE UP FOR THE POVERTY OF THE FOSSIL RECORD i.e THE ABSENCE OF TRANSITIONAL FORMS –

PUNCTUATED EQUILIBRIUM – A theory proposed in an attempt to answer the question “How can one imagine an evolutionary period so rapid as n ot to leave any fossils behind it?”

In it’s present state this theory holds that that living populations show no changes over long periods of time, but stay in a kind of equilibrium. According to this viewpoint, evolutionary changes take place in short time frames and in very restricted populations.
Because thye population is very small, Macro-mutations i.e large mutations
are chosen by natural selection and thus enable a new species to emerge.

MUTATIONS AS WE KNOW CONSIST OF CHANCE CHANGES IN GENETIC CODES AND NEVER HAVE A BENEFICIAL INFLUENCE ON AN ORGANISM’ DATA.
THE RESULT OF MUTATIONS HAVE ALWAYS VERIFIED SERIOUS ILNESSES FOR EG CANCER, DEFORMITIES AND EVEN DEATH.

THE BIGGER THE MUTATION (macro-mutation) THE BIGGER THE DAMAGE!

Ernst Mayr, the doyen of Darwinism says:

The occurence of genetic monstrosities by mutation…is well substantiated, but they are such EVIDENT FREAKS that these can be designated only as hopeless. They are so utterly unbalanced that they would not have the slightest chance of ESCAPING ELIMINATION through STABILIZING SELECTION…. the more drastically a mutation affects the phenotype, the more likely it is to REDUCE FITNESS. To believe that such a drastic mutation would produce a viable new type, capable of occupying
a new adaptive zone, is equivalent to BELIEVING IN MIRACLES…The finding of a suitable mate for the ‘hopeless monster’ (i.e punctuated equilibrium) and
the establishment of reproductive isolation from the normal members of the parental population seem to me INSURMOUNTABLE DIFFICULTIES.”

Remeber that such admissions of the lack of scientific evidences of such proposed mechanisms are being made by those WHO HOPE AND WISHED that evolution were true.
They are not at all happy at the fact that they know (inside themselves) that it is not.

Geneticist Lane Lester and population biologist Raymond Bohlin have this to say:

“….However, though macromutations of many varieties produce drastic changes, the vast majority will be INCAPABLE OF SURVIVAL , let alone show the marks of INCREASING COMPLEXITY… At present the thesis that mutations, whether great or small, are capable of producing limitless biological change is MORE AN ARTICLE OF FAITH THAN FACT.”

Observation and experiment eg on countless generations of fruit flies both show that mutations do not enhance genetic data, but rather damage it.

THE RESTRICTED POULATION PART OF IT

In restricted populations individuals must continually MATE within a NARROW GENETIC POOL. So normally heterozygous individuals become increasingly homozygous which means that DEFECTIVE GENES which are normally recessive become DOMINANT, with the result that genetic DEFECTS and sickness INCREASE WITHIN THE POPULATION.

AN EXAMPLE: A 35 year study of a small, inbred population of chickens was carried out. It was found that the individual chickens became PROGRESSIVELY WEAKER
from the GENETIC POINT OF VIEW over time. Their egg production fell from 100 to 80 percent and their fertility declined from 93 percent to 74 percent. But when chickens from other regions were added to the population, this trend toward genetic weakening was HALTED and even REVERSED.
WITH THE INFUSION OF NEW GENES FROM OUTSIDE THE RSTRICTED GROUP, EVENTUALLY THE INDICATORS OF THE HEALTH OF THE POPULATION RETURNED TO NORMAL.

Actually Punctuated equilibrium via macro-mutations (causes bigger damage) is worser than proposing GRADUAL CHANGES! Neither of the two are true. The problem (from evolution point of view)
of the fossil record REMAINS and proves again CONCLUSIVELY THE SOLID FACT OF CREATION.

In spite of this evidence ,punctuated equilibrium like with the rest of the hopeless hypothetical and INVALIDATED parts to the theory will no doubt continue to be proposed and presented as if they were facts ( via deceptive effective propaganda machine) and MANY ‘DOUGHNUTS’ because of pschological reasons will continue to blindly ‘believe’ in it!

GENETIC SIMILARITIES ARE NOT EVIDENCE FOR EVOLUTION BUT FOR CREATION.

Dr Christian Schwabe, a biochemistry researcher from the Medical Faculty of South Carolina Uni who has spent years searching for evidence for evolution in the molecular domain says:

“…It seems disconcerting that MANY EXCEPTIONS exist to the orderly progression of species as determined by molecular homologies; so many in fact that i think the exception, the quirks, may carry the more important message.”

Renowned biochemist Prof. Michael Denton says:

Each class at molecular level is unique, isolated and UNLINKED BY INTERMEDIATES. Thus molecules, like fossils, HAVE FAILED to provide the elusive intermediates so long sought by evolutionary biology… At a molecular level
, no organism is “ancestral” or “primitive” or “advanced”
compared with its relatives… There is little doubt that if this MOLECULAR EVIDENCE had been available a century ago… the idea of organic evolution might never have been accepted.”

IT IS SURELY NATURAL FOR THE HUMAN BODY TO BEAR SOME MOLECULAR SIMILARITIES TO OTHER LIVING BEINGS, BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL MADE UP OF THE:

(1) SAME MOLECULES
(2) THEY ALL USE THE SAME WATER
(3) USE THE SAME ATMOSPHERE
(4) THEY ALL CONSUME FOODS CONSISTING OF THE SAME
MOLECULES

AS A RESULT CERTAINLY THEIR METABOLISMS AND GENETIC MAKE-UPS WOULD RESEMBLE ONE ANOTHER.

THIS “COMMON MATERIAL” IS NOT THE RESULT OF AN EVOLUTION BUT OF “COMMON DESIGN,” THAT IS, THEIR BEING CREATED UPON THE SAME PLAN.

AN EXAMPLE:

All construction in the world is done with similar materials i.e brick, iron, cement etc
This however DOES NOT MEAN that these buildings “evolved” from eachother!
They are constructed separately by using common materials and this HOLDS TRUE ALSO FOR LIVING THINGS AS WELL.

OTHER THAN THE SUPERFICIAL SIMILARITY BETWEEN THEM, APES ARE NO CLOSER TO HUMAN BEINGS THAN OTHER ANIMALS.

Moreover when intelligence is used as a point of comparison, the bee, which produces the GEOMETRICAL WONDER of the honeycombe, or the spider, which produces the ENGINEERIN WONDER of the web, dolphins, talking birds etc are closer to man than the ape. We can even say that in some aspects they are superior.

There is a tremendous gap, never to be closed by FAIRY STORIES. An ape is an animal no different from any other animal in terms of CONSCIOUSNESS and WILL. Man can think, talk, reason, decide and judge due to the fuctions of the “SPIRIT” he possesses and no physical resemblance can ever close this gap.

CLONING A HUMAN BEING OR ANY OTHER LIVING BEING IS NOT CREATING.

Creating means to bring into being something from NOTHINGNESS and this act is peculiar to GOD ALONE.
When a man or any other living being is cloned, ALREADY EXISTING cells of a living being are taken and COPIED.

NEVER HAS A SINGLE LIVING CELL BEEN CREATED FROM NOTHINGNESS BY MAN. AND THIS WILL REMAIN SO FOR ALL TIME.
THE REST AS ALWAYS IS FALSE DECEPTIVE PROPAGANDA VIA MEDIA ORGANS THAT ATTEMPT TO INDOCTRINATE THE MASSES.

THE Glorious Qu’ran, The Last and Final Guidance and Testament of Almighty God to mankind:

‘ MANKIND! AN EXAMPLE HAS BEEN MADE, SO LISTEN TO IT CAREFULLY. THOSE WHOM YOU CALL UPON BESIDES ALLAH ARE NOT EVEN ABLE TO CREATE A SINGLE FLY, EVEN IF THEY WERE TO JOIN TOGETHER TO DO IT. AND IF A FLY STEALS SOMETHING FROM THEM, THEY CANNOT GET IT BACK. HOW FEEBLE ARE BOTH THE SEEKER AND THE SOUGHT! Surat al Hajj: 73

brother joe, you said above:
===========
Bro for the last time look at “Darwinism is incompatable with the Qu’ran” which refutes all the verses in which in line with your preconceptions and complexes you LOAD UP and ERRONEOUSLY see evolution.
===========

not only me, but many believers –including many renowned islamic expert scholars– worldwide see these verses in the way i tried to explain a little bit above,
but if you prefer not to believe, it is your decision, there is no compulsion in our religion. (2/256)

and i know all the books & arguments you recommended against those understandings, don’t worry.
we are aware of them…

===========
Bro i want you to reflect seriously how dangerous what you are doing is. Allah says in the Qu’ran that He can Guide as well as Misquide people by certain of it’s Verses.
The verses which you see evolution in are an example of this and only a sincere heart can liberate itself of this sickness i.e interpretating the Qu’ran in line with one’s own whims and desires.
===========

i may be thinking the same things about your position brother…
gnostic and evangelical based “anti-reality” and “anti-evolutionary” dangerous whims and desires!
(please see again some critical & informative writings on this issue, from May 11 to May 21)

===========
You keep ignoring all the EVIDENCE and the ADMISSIONS of evolutionsts which means anything you point out to therefore obviously DOES NOT AND CANNOT go beyond speculation and hypothesis which rest upon wishful-thinking and deceptive propaganda.
===========

brother, in fact you keep ignoring all the EVIDENCE presented about Evolution(ary Creation) above in many writings,
and all the theist or atheist scientists who sincerely accepted and working on it, and finding new and amazing evidences/clues about it every day and worldwide.
but you hold on your evangelical based futile tactic:
to exploit the “not well understood yet” areas of
evolution(ary creation) and thus try to discredit it completely.

but let me tell you honestly, it may not work,
because the foundation may be very strong for both Big bang and Evolution, as our God may wondrously have mentioned and basically supported both of them, together, in one verse in His Scripture. (21/30)

so perhaps we may modify our understanding in some areas and we may learn lots of –not well understood yet– things in many areas in both of these two great scientific theories of our time, but unfortunately (for you) they may never go away, after so much fundamental proofs.

but if you that much dislike it, you can of course go and freely work together with these your anti-evolutionary evangelical friends (their Deceptive Propaganda), and they may also show you lots of “gaps & unsolved problems” in Big bang today.
you may love it. and i am sure especially their “anti-evolutionary” tirade may make you more than happy.
so perhaps this site may be a “must-see” for you:

(www.earthage.org)
please, especially see = Evolution and Big bang problems.

and unless you change your mindset & perspective against these kind of scientific theories from the very start, it is of course impossible for you to see any EVIDENCE regarding them.
here is one of your evangelical friend’s mistaken mindset & perspective (and of course yours, at least for the first part) from the very start:

*****************
= In reality though, this theory (Evolution) is nothing more than an attempt by men (whose knowledge is quite limited) to try and explain how they think we might have been created without a Creator!!!

= For this reason, the Big Bang theory goes hand in hand with the theory of Evolution, which is an attempt to do likewise!!!

= Small wonder that those who promote the Big Bang are also, more often than not, believers in Evolution!!!

(earthage.org & problems with bigbang)
*****************

see, a guy in such a mood from the very start…
can he really see any EVIDENCE regarding Big bang or Evolutionary Creation? or can you (for the second one)?
i don’t think so. sorry again.

===========
WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND?

BUT once a person has been made aware of the DECEPTION that is evolution there is no doubt that that person
can NO LONGER SINCERELY believe in it any longer.
===========

i think i may have already made it a little bit clear “WHY IT MAY BE SO DIFFICULT FOR YOU TO SEE IT.”
yes, i wish you could only see that EVANGELICAL DECEPTION that is:

“Unevolutionary, Instant Creation Model”

which our God may definitely be rejecting in His Word
from the start. (21/30 & 71/13-14 & 76/1)

==========
SEE “THE DARK SPELL OF DARWINISM – HOW DARWINISTS TWIST THE TRUTH TO TURN PEOPLE AWAY FROM GOD”
==========

today there are millions of believing people (scientists & scholars & believers) on earth from every religion
–especially Christian & Muslim & Jews– who basically believe in and support Evolutionary Creation concept.

and guess what: they even may convince many atheists to come close to God by this wondrous Evolutionary Creation concept.

===========
There is no doubt that you are in utter confusion and it clearly shows with your all over the place “explanations”.
===========

utter confusion & all over the explanations!!

every time i write about some basic Evidences for Evolutionary Creation and the related miraculous Verses that support them, and examples of

= many theist or atheist scientists who sincerely accepted it and working on it, and still finding many powerful/credible evidences on it everyday, worldwide,

= and how this Evolutionary Creation concept may bring all righteous Christians & Muslims & Jews & Others in this most critical age together under

= worshipping one true God,
(do not worship Jesus as God Incarnate –against his will (Mark 10/18)– anymore…)

you are just as if trying to fill here –at least with three back to back– deliberate, or out of context, or flatly wrong misleading “quotations” from your evangelical sources…

and also here i give all the examples of some remarkable Christian Scientists of our time and other Christian believers who turned to “worship God alone” (like Jesus rightfully commanded to all Christians, Mark 12/29-30) via help of this Evolutionary Creation concept and all the related basic supportive proofs,

you “amazingly” never even mention or congragulate these kind of righteous Christian believers in the first place (aale imraan 55), but instead you are always siding with the anti-evolutionary Evangelicals (maaedah 17) who emphatically advocate

= worshipping Jesus as God Incarnate!!

via this “anti-evolutionary instant creation model,”
which is devoid of any credible proof;

and then you are asking us:

==========
Bro i want you to reflect seriously how dangerous what you are doing is.

What is the matter with you?
==========

brother, i think we should be asking to you these questions, in the first place.
so please, think again, very CAREFULLY! (maaedah 17)

===========
You know it is all over but PRIDE is preventing you from admiting it and this is unbecoming of a good Muslim.
===========

===========
BRO IT IS CLEAR AT THIS STAGE THAT YOU MUST BE UNDER A SPELL. THE ONLY SOLUTION THEREFORE IS THE FOLLOWING:

TURN TO ALLAH WITH A SINCERE HEART AND SEEK REFUGE IN HIM FROM SATAN THE ACCURSED.
===========

I may just be thinking the same things about your position, brother.
and i wish the same solution for you, brother, SERIOUSLY & WHOLEHEARTEDLY.

yes, brother. i will not go further into your other deliberate & out of context & flatly wrong evangelical anti evolutionary “quotations” right now.
and i will not copy here all the scientific long “quotations” that answers most of your ill-based questions/quotations.

but i will only give here some –simple to understand for everyone– credible scientific web site addresses for the ones who may want to receive credible answers & the latest developments & the questions waiting to be solved in Evolutionary research against these kind of biased & deliberate attempts to discredit this wondrous
God-chosen Evolutionary Creation (21/30 & 71/13-14 & 7/69 & 6/133 & 76/1 & …) concept basically:

common ancestry & DNA & evolution:
(www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.comme ntary/index.html)

punctuated equilibrium:
(evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/V IIA1bPunctuated.shtml)

possible genetic evidence for punctuated equilibrium:
(www.the-scientist.com/news/display/2502 3/)

29+evidences for macro evolution:
(www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/sectio n4.html)

evidences of biological evolution:
(www.nap.edu/html/creationism/evidence.h tml)

evidences of molecular evolution:
(evolution-101.blogspot.com/2006/03/mole cular-evidence-1-protein.html)

*** when reading these kind of essential scientific articles –especially related to Big bang and
Evolutin(ary Creation)– the terms like “randomly” & “spontaneously” etc. should always be perceived as “inspirational” actions by God,
by all believers, because in our universe everything do only act via His inspiration/command in our belief, (israa 44 & fussilat 41)
but because this “inspiration” can never be observed by our five senses (israa 44 & fussilat 11),
in scienctific (= which is based only on what we can observe with our five senses) literature only those terms are used.
but all over the world all great theistic scientists and believers who basically believe in and support Big bang and Evolutionary creation concepts always read these scientific articles with this godly perspective in mind.

and lastly, let me give here some (young earth) Evangelical objections against Big bang theory,
and let me see your answers for these
questions (according to them these questions & objections basically discredit this Big bang creation concept completely!! like they already basically discredited Evolution(ary Creation) concept
totally!!

——————–
1) Even if the Universe is expanding, speculative theories such as the Big Bang still cannot account for the order and complexity that we see around us. This is because, explosions are never observed to create order, but rather disorder and chaos.

2) In effect, astronomers are now saying that many of the closer galaxies are red shifted because they are moving away from us, but the furthest ones are blue shifted —not because they are moving toward us, but— because they are younger. In other words, since the (blue-shift-for-furthest-galaxies) data doesn’t fit with the red shift theory, for objects that are supposed to be moving away from us, and since we are not ready to completely dump the Big Bang, then we’ll simply change the rules a bit!

3) For IF the Universe were indeed expanding, and IF the galaxies were all created as the result of a Big Bang, then they would all have formed at about the same time: meaning that the furthest galaxies should have the highest degree of red shift (and actually be red, as opposed to blue). But since they don’t, astronomers are now saying that the blue color has nothing at all to do with their motion, but is simply a sign of their age.

4) …However, none of these evidences are proof of a big bang, since each can be accounted for by things other than an explosion. In this regard, the editors of New Scientist remarked that:

“Never has such a mighty edifice been built on such insubstantial foundations.” And that: “… the big bang theory will definitely need some major modifications if it is to survive into the future.”

5) The discovery of such a complex and mature structure so early in the history of the Universe is highly surprising. Indeed, until recently it would even have been deemed impossible.
So this observation falsified the Big bang theory. To save the theory (upon which grants and reputations are established) an ad hoc patch must be found.

(earthage.org) big bang problems
———————

yes, how it is basically similar with the approach against Evolution(ary Creation), isn’t it?
if you have such a mindset & perspective of an Evangelical kind from the very start, is it ever possible that you may see any positive EVIDENCE regarding Big bang or Evolution(ary Creation) concept on the way ahead..?

******************************
say: roam the earth and find out
HOW HE INITIATED THE CREATION? (29/20)

do the disbelievers not see that (in the beginning)

= the heaven and earth used to be one SINGLE-ENTITY
and WE EXPLODED IT,
(= forming of first heavenly beings out of “bang” and then their continuous evolutionary path…) (51/47)

= and then we did from WATER EVERY LIVING THING,
(= forming of first living beings out of “water” and then their continuous evolutionary path…) (71/13-14 & 76/1 & …)

will they still not believe? (21/30)
******************************

Posted by evolutionary creation | Report as abusive

You referred to me several web links where you believe evidences for evolution are presented!

And the reason you think so is because the usual deceptive and speculative propaganda that they have always engaged in and continue in is RECENT!

AMAZING ISN’T IT?! ALL OF A SUDDEN NOW EVERYTHING ABOUT EVOLUTION THAT HAS BEEN INVALIDATED HAS NOW MIRACULOUSLY BEEN VALIDATED IN THE LAST FEW YEARS!

You truly are in a spell my brother. There is just no doubt about it. Your inferiority complexes due to conditioning undergone via the western education system which is geared towards brainwashing people has truly made of you the classic weak and apologetic-type Muslim which in our age, sadly are many.

There is no point repeating the above. You can continue to be CONVENIENTLY BLIND due to your sicknesses already explained above as much as you like but it will not CHANGE REALITY ever.

To keep yourself UPTO DATE with the LATEST PROPAGANDA on evolution see:

DARWINISM-WATCH.COM

brother joe, you said above:
===========
ANOTHER VAIN ATTEMPT IN ORDER TO MAKE UP FOR THE POVERTY OF THE FOSSIL RECORD i.e THE ABSENCE OF TRANSITIONAL FORMS -PUNCTUATED EQUILIBRIUM-
===========

perhaps it may not be a vain attempt at all. but on the contrary, it may be a miraculous prediction of our wonderful Scripture, as one of the main God-chosen evolution(ary creation) mechanisms, as i tried to explain a little bit in my above writing:

***************
yes, the evolution(ary creation) path/pace must be much quicker and more immediate, than once thought. (= as “punctuated equilibrium” proposed) rather than only gradualism. because this is also what our God may have indicated to us in His marvelous Word:

———-
..and if He wants, He will make you vanish first, and then He will bring a “new creation” (= halqan cadeedan). (14/19)
———-

in this verse, our God may have given us wonderful hints/clues about evolutionary progressive steps (as of a major morphological change in a species, or appearance of a totally new species):

= first (a population of) a species may have been put in an unfavorable environment by our God, and thus have been made vanish (= yuzhebkum) initially (at least many or most of them)…

= and in this tough environment, a new –more suitable– evolved body or a totally new –more suitable– evolved species (= halqan cadeedan) must have descended from this vanishing (population of) species, quickly and wondrously by the mysterious inspiration/command of our God.

and perhaps this may be the basic and unchangable formula (= sunnatu Allah, 35/43) for evolutionary creation path/progress, by His will.
and this is also what Science may have come close (via punctuated equilibrium evolutionary idea) right now.
***************

for more essential scientific information on “punctuated equilibrium” and “gradualism” as mechanisms of
evolution(ary creation), please visit:

punctuated equilibrium:
(evolution.berkeley.edu/evosite/evo101/V IIA1bPunctuated.shtml)

possible genetic evidence for punctuated equilibrium:
(www.the-scientist.com/news/display/2502 3/)

and for more information on “transitional forms” as evidence of evolution(ary creation) & evidences from vertebrate fossil record for evolution(ary creation), please visit:

(www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-transition al/part2c.html#conc)

===========
MUTATIONS AS WE KNOW CONSIST OF CHANCE CHANGES IN GENETIC CODES AND NEVER HAVE A BENEFICIAL INFLUENCE ON AN ORGANISM’ DATA.
===========

as i tried to explain in some of my above writings,
all mutations –beneficial or harmful– in all of the living beings should totally be seen as “INSPIRATIONAL CHANGES” under the command of our Lord, by all believers, in the first place. (israa 44 & fussilat 11)
because for the believers nothing is by chance, or random, or spontaneous, but everything is absolutely “INSPIRATIONAL PROCESSES” under the command of our Lord;
even the forming of all “fallen leaves” from all the trees on earth, and forming of every “masses of clouds” in the skies, whether there is a
specific-pattern in them –by our God’s will, or there is not any specific-pattern in them –by our God’s will. (6/59 & 24/43) but because this INSPIRATION part can never be observed by our five senses (17/44 & 41/11) they are only called as random, or spontaneous, or chance processes by Scientific (= what is based only on our five senses) standards.

and so yes, mutations can also be “harmful” by our God’s will; and they can also be “beneficial” by our God’s will, whenever He wishes/wished so.

for some evidences of beneficial mutations, please see:
(www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoEvidence.html)

===========
THE BIGGER THE MUTATION (macro-mutations) THE BIGGER THE DAMAGE!
===========

not always! whenever our God wishes/wished even the biggest mutations can do the biggest benefit.

for 29+evidences for macro evolution, please see:
(www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/sectio n4.html)

and also our God may have already miraculously indicated in His wondrous Scripture to us that:

He may even change a species perfectly into another species easily (= macro evolution, probably via macro mutations) whenever He wishes/wished;
backwards or forwards. (2/65) X (6/133 & 2/30)

===========
To believe that such a drastic mutation would produce a viable new type, capable of occupying
a new adaptive zone, is equivalent to BELIEVING IN MIRACLES…
===========

yes, this is why we see the Evolutionary Creation technique –via punctuated equilibrium, together with
gradualism– of our Lord as a pure MIRACLE,
and we are calling all the people on earth to our almighty God via this biggest MIRACLE on earth, together with Big bang (evolutionary) creation technique
in heaven. (21/30 & 71/13-14 & 6/133 & 76/1 & …) (21/30 & 51/47)

===========
Remeber that such admissions of the lack of scientific evidences of such proposed mechanisms are being made by those WHO HOPE AND WISHED that evolution were true.
They are not at all happy at the fact that they know (inside themselves) that it is not.
===========

most of the “quotations” you referred in your writing belong to scientists –theist or atheist– who basically believe Evolution(ary Creation) method,
mainly because of many fundamental evidences
supporting it, in the first place,

= orderly fossil record (from primitive to complex),

= many transitional forms,

= DNA evidences & comparison of all living beings,

= homology and anology in living beings,

but they are only questioning here some new proposed mechanisms (= especially “punctuated equilibrium” because of its MIRACULOUS nature, as i tried to explain a little bit above).
and also this is perhaps Science is all about: question and you will find the answer in the end (by God’s will).
(and this is all true for Big bang (creation) method and all of its mechanisms.)

so if you believe that at least %95 of all scientists on earth –theists and atheists together– are believing in and supporting Evolution(ary Creation) technique, though they absolutely know it is not true, perhaps you should check yourself –the credibility of your (mostly evangelical) sources– one more time, please, brother.

for a humble & smooth beginning, you may see:
why evolution is not a hoax;
why majority of scientists –theists & atheists–
do support evolution(ary creation) concept today, worldwide:
(www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=215  )
(www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.comme ntary/index.html)

===========
Observation and experiment eg on countless generations of fruit flies both show that mutations do not enhance genetic data, but rather damage it.
===========

yes, duplication of genes may sometimes enhance the genetic data, whenever our God inspired/inspires to it, without touching a hand, fully under His command. (36/82 & 14/19 & 7/69)

for some encouraging scientific Signs from our God (21/37) on this issue, please see:

How “new information” is added to an organism’s DNA through duplication and divergence of genes. (evangelical instant creationists claim that this is impossible!!)
http://www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoEvidence.ht ml

===========
Actually Punctuated equilibrium via macro-mutations (causes bigger damage) is worser than proposing GRADUAL CHANGES!
===========

yes, brother; i can understand why it (= punctuated equilibrium evolutionary idea, together with gradualism) seems in your eyes so “worse.”
but in the eyes of our God it may not be worse, but easy, miraculous and “best” maybe… (14/19)

===========
Neither of the two are true. The problem (from evolution point of view)
of the fossil record REMAINS and proves again CONCLUSIVELY THE SOLID FACT OF CREATION.
===========

yes, in your last sentence i agree with you %100,
except if we –a little bit– could correct the last word:

…THE SOLID FACT OF “EVOLUTIONARY CREATION.”
(21/30 & 71/13-14 & 6/133 & 76/1 & …)

===========
punctuated equilibrium… theory will no doubt continue to be proposed and presented as if they were facts (via deceptive effective propaganda machine) and MANY ‘DOUGHNUTS’ because of pschological reasons will continue to blindly ‘believe’ in it!
===========

yes, among those “DOUGHNUTS” are many great Theistic Scientists of our time, who are working for God and for also the benefit of all humanity,
and they are calling to God hundreds of thousands of people worldwide via Evolutionary Creation method of God,
and guess what: none of them are “BLIND,”
but they are all actually “SEEING” the clear Signs of Evolutionary Creation in their laboratories & excavations etc.

to see a good example of these kind of some righteous Scientists
(= %40 of all Theistic Scientists even in this fanatic Anti-Evolutionary Evangelical Stronghold (= some parts of U.S.)
(and this should also tell us something about the solid credibility of Evolution(ary Creation) concept.)
please visit again:

(www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/03/collins.comme ntary/index.html)

Posted by evolutionary creation | Report as abusive

Bro, I must admit that i have finally realised that evolution has happened and is still happening.
How could i have been so blind?!

YOU ARE LIVING PROOF OF IT! I HAVE SEEN YOU EVOLVING GRADUALLY (micro-mutations) FROM A DOUGHNUT INTO A PLUM!

AND NOW I AM WAITING FOR PUNCTUATED EQUILIBRIUM (macro-mutations) to continue your evolution to the next stages:-

FROM CLOWN INTO A JOKER!

AND WHEN THAT HAPPENS WE CAN THEN CALL WALT DISNEY!

FURTHER ADMISSIONS CONCERNING THE JOKE OF EVOLUTION

In an Scientific American article published in 1994 , Gould says:
“Natural selection is therefore a principle of local adaptation, NOT GENERAL ADVANCE OR PROGRESS.”

Roger Lewin says:
” ….Natural Selection does NOT PROMOTE SPECIATION. It is NOT A CREATIVE FORCE as many people have suggested.”

Parasitology – a book by four evolutionary biologists:
“Natural Selection can only act on those biologic properties that ALREADY EXIST. IT CANNOT CREATE PROPERTIES in order to meet ADAPTATIONAL NEEDS.”

PIERRE-PAUL GRASSE’ – renowned French Zoologist says:
“….. A comparative study of sera, hemoglobins, blood proteins, interfertility, etc, PROVES that the strains REMAIN THE SAME SPECIFIC DEFINITION. This is not a matter of opinion or subjective classification, but a MEASURABLE REALITY.”

RESORTING TO TAUTALOGICAL/ CIRCULAR REASOING

British Geneticist J.B.S Haldane says:
“…the phrase ‘survival of the fittest’ is something of a tautology.”

Prof of Ecology R.H Peters from Canada’s McGill Uni says:
“…These theories are actually tautologies and, as such CANNOT make empirically TESTABLE PREDICTIONS. THEY ARE NOT SCIENTIFIC AT ALL.”

Prof Steven Stanley of John Hopkins Uni says:
“I tend to agree with those who have viewed natural selection as a tautology rather than a true theory.”

The philosopher Arthur Koestler says:
“In the meantime, the educated public continues to believe that Darwin has provided all the relevant answers by the magic formula of random mutations plus natural selection – quite unaware of the fact that random mutations have turned out to be IRRELEVANT and natural selection a TAUTOLOGY.”

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR AN UNCONSCIOUS, BLIND MECHANISM TO HAVE CREATED THE COMPLEX INFO AND DESIGN IN LIVING THINGS. EVOLUTIONISTS, WHO SEEK TO PORTRAY NATURAL SELECTION AS A DIVINE CREATOR OF ALL LIVING THINGS ARE NO DIFFERENT FROM WORSHIPPERS OF IDOLS AND TOTEMS –
THEY ARE TODAYS TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY PAGANS WHO ARE TRYING TO LEGITIMISE IT IN A SO-CALLED SCIENTIFIC MANNER!

Regarding mutations i have covered the subject extensivley on previous occasions and therefore will only give one example.

I.L Cohen, a member of the New York Academy of Sciences says:
“To propose and argue that mutations even in tandem with ‘natural selection’ are the root-causes for 6,000,000 viable species, is to MOCK LOGIC, DENY THE WEIGHT OF EVIDENCE, and REJECT the fundamentals of MATHEMATICAL PROBABILITY.”

No example of beneficial mutation whether micro or macro has ever been observed and any example/s of “beneficial mutation” that is put forward are CERTAINLY DISTORTIONS and deceptive propaganda.

SPECIATION AND VARIATION

In his book Sudden Origins: Fossils, Genes and the Emergence of Species, published in 2000, Jeffrey Schwartz, prof of Anthropology at Uni of pittsburgh says:
“…It was and still is the the case that,with the exception of Dobzhanksky’s CLAIM about a new species of fruit fly, the formation of a NEW SPECIES, by ANY MECHANISM, has NEVER BEEN OBSERVED.”

In order to demonstrate speciation, fruit flies have been bred for last 70 YEARS or so and have been constantly exposed to mutations and NEVER has there been any EVOLUTIONARY CHANGE EXPERIENCED or SPECIATION ENCOUNTERED. Fruit flies have remaine fruit flies and needless to say this would apply to the rest of LIVING THINGS.

Kevin Kelley, evolutionist editor of WIRED magazine says:
“Despite a close watch, we have witnessed NO NEW SPECIES EMERGE in the wild in recorded history. Also, most remarkably, we have seen no new animal species emerge in DOMESTIC BREEDING. That includes new species of fruitflies in hundreds of millions of generatioins in fruitfly studies, where both soft and harsh PRESSURES have been deliberately applied to the fly populations to induce speciation…In the wild, in breeding, and in artificial life we see the emergence of variation.
BUT by the ABSENCE of GREATER CHANGE , we also clearly see the LIMITS of VARIATION appear to be NARROWLY BOUNDED and often BOUNDED WITHIN SPECIES.”

I have extensively covered the fossil record which has NEVER unearthed a SINGLE GENUINE TRANSITIONAL FORM(let alone the absurd claim of many!) beyond the alleged few which have all proven to be nothing of the kind
and as always nothing but stubborn ongoing propaganda.

I have also covered the DNA scenarion extensively.

HOMOLGY ERROR

(1) Evolutionists portray homology (common structures)
as proof of descent from a common ancestor and in typical tautalogical fashion describe it as descent from a common ancestor. Needless to say nothing to do with any scientific proof.

(2) There are also common structures among living things for which evolutionists do not claim an evolutionary relationship – like those between marsupial and placental mammals for example. This means that the reason for COMMON STRUCTURE IS NOT A COMMON ANCESTOR.

(3) Similar structures in many living things are NOT CAUSED by SIMILAR GENES and this shows that they do not have a common evolutionary origin.

(4) In living things with homologous organs, the DEVELOPMENTAL STAGES of these organs are VERY DIFFERENT and again this shows that these organs do not come from a common ancestor.

Michael Denton says:
“The validity of the evolutionary interpretation of HOMOLGY would have been greatly strenghened if EMBRYOLOGICAL and GENETIC research could heve shown that homologous structures were specified by homologous genes and followed patterns of embryological development…
But it has BECOME CLEAR that the principle CANNOT be extended THIS WAY. HOMOLOGOUS STRUCTURES ARE OFTEN SPECIFIED BY NON-HOMOLOGOUS GENETIC SYSTEMS AND THE CONCEPT OF HOMOLOGY CAN SELDOM BE EXTENDED BACK INTO EMBRYOLOGY.”

Richard Milton in 1997 says:
“In the 1950′s, when molecular biologists began to decipher the genetic code, there was a single glittering prize enticing them. When they found the codes for making proteins out of amino acids, they naturally ASSUMED that they were on the brink of discovering at the MOLECULAR LEVEL the same homologies that had been observed at the mascroscopic level of comparative anatomy.
If gthe bones of the human arm could be traced back to the wing of the bat and the hoof of a horse, then the miraculous new science of molecular biology would trace the homologies in DNA codes that expressed these physical characteristics… YET when biologists did begin to acquire an understanding of the molecular mechanism of genetics, THEY FOUND THAT APPARENTLY HOMOLOGOUS STRUCTURES IN DIFFERENT SPECIES ARE SPECIFIED
BY QUITE DIFFERENT GENES.”

IT NEEDS TO BE MADE CLEAR THAT HAD GOD WANTED OF COURSE, HE COULD HAVE CREATED LIVING THINGS VIA THE CHANGING FROM ONE SPECIES INTO ANOTHER – BUT HE DID NOT AS SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE FROM THE MOLECULAR ALL THE WAY TO PAEOLONTOLOGY HAS CLEARLY AND CONCLUSIVELY SHOWN.

Had evolution been true the scientific evidences for it would have been shown in ABUNDANCE BY NOW (we are now 150YRS down the line!) at every level.
It is CRYSTAL-CLEAR that it has not happened and it is an absolute DISGRACE that it has not been relegated to the trash heap of history where it belongs.

ANYTHING THEREFORE THAT IS REFERRED TO AS SO-CALLED EVIDENCE FOR EVOLUTION IN MEDIA,ACADEMIA, HOLLYWOOD ETC IS CLEARLY NO MORE THAN HOPEFUL SPECULATION AND DECEPTIVE PROPAGANDA THAT CAN ONLY CONTINUE TO HAVE INFLUENCE OVER THOSE WHO ARE IGNORANT OF THE FACTS OR THOSE WHO DO NOT WANT TO LET GO OF THEIR WORLD-VIEW BECAUSE IT CONFORMS TO THEIR WISHFUL-THINKING i.e their whims and desires.

===========
GENETIC SIMILARITIES ARE NOT EVIDENCE FOR EVOLUTION BUT FOR CREATION!?!

IT IS SURELY NATURAL FOR THE HUMAN BODY TO BEAR SOME MOLECULAR SIMILARITIES TO OTHER LIVING BEINGS?!?

THIS “COMMON MATERIAL” IS NOT THE RESULT OF AN EVOLUTION BUT OF “COMMON DESIGN!?!,”
============

actually, all of these similarities (genetic & molecular & morphological) between all the living-beings on earth
may all be among the wonderful evidences of “EVOLUTIONARY CREATION” technique of our almighty COMMON DESIGNER.

———-
…(in the beginning), and then we made every
LIVING-BEING from WATER. (21/30)

all the CREATURES on earth and all the flying BIRDS are congregations that are –physically & genetically– SIMILAR/SAME as you. (6/38)

so why do you not give Allah the glory?
and though He created you –all living-beings– in STAGES (= atvaaran). (71/13-14)

is it not a fact that,
a very LONG PERIOD (= heynun min addahre) passed upon HUMAN-BEING when he was not a thing to be mentioned –on earth– yet? (76/1)
———–

and not just by looking at some striking genetic similarities, but more than that, some scientists recently discovered that humans’ second chromosome is actually the product of the “fusion of two chromosomes” that are found seperately in some great apes.
and this may be another miraculous Sign for us from our God about the evolutionary “common ancestry” concept between some great apes and humans.

so how our God may have described for us these “common ancestors,” with the most elegant description in His Scripture may be another important thing we should be appreciative of here:

———–
if He wants, He may make-you-vanish,
and He may make-successors after you (like He made Adam a successor, 2/30) whatever He wants,
as He built you from the descendants of a DIFFERENT CONGREGATION (= qavman aahareen: humanlike primates, which may be common ancestors of great apes and humans) (6/133)
———–

please, see comparison of human and great apes chromosomes as evidence of evolutionary common ancestry concept here:

(www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoEvidence.html)

** this solid evidence may be giving a real hard time for evangelical anti-evolutionary instant Common Designists!
after all “evangelical anti-evolutionary instant Common Designer” may have made a big –hard to ignore–mistake/gaffe here…
maybe with the great risk of just to be “ruled out” before all the scientists,
and maybe before the Most-Wise Evolutionary True Common Designer!

———–
(and please, also do not forget here: in the eyes of our Lord all the other creatures on earth –including apes of course– are not Inferior to human beings PHYSICALLY (6/38), they may be as magnificient as human beings GENETICALLY & MORPHOLOGICALLY (6/38),
but they are only Inferior to human beings SPIRITUALLY. (2/65) so if we think of Evolutionary Creation technique of our Lord with this perspective in mind, we can appreciate it more rightfully & humbly… (but perhaps only except the ones who –erroneously– think that God may have created them separately & anti evolutionarily & in an instant & in His own perfect Image!!)
(and in this regard, please see again one critical writing above, which may be explaining the main DIFFERENCE and SUPERIORITY of Adam than all the other creatures that may have come before him evolutionarily. (May 27) (baqara 2/30-33, 37)
———–

===========
AN EXAMPLE:
All construction in the world is done with similar materials i.e brick, iron, cement etc
This however DOES NOT MEAN that these buildings “evolved” from eachother!
===========

brother, i advise you not to mix up Human creation with God’s creation, in the first place.
do you see any building around us made by human beings that goes through a micro evolution on its own (= do they change color, or do they go through any minor morphological changes on their own)?
but we clearly see that many buildings (bodies of creatures) made by our God definitely go through micro evolution on their own (= they may change color, or they may go through minor morphological changes on their own by inspiration/command of our Lord many times).
so our Lord who can make this MICRO EVOLUTION on all His creatures (and by the way, this micro evolution concept is accepted even by the most fanatic anti evolutionary evangelicals) without touching a hand to them, completely via His inspiration/command,
of course can do then the MACRO EVOLUTION with the same ease, in the same –more advanced– way.
and He may have already informed us in His wondrous Scripture that:

He may have certainly DONE it many times, for creating all life forms on earth. (21/30 & 71/13-14 & 6/133 & 76/1 & …)

Posted by evolutionary creation | Report as abusive

===========
= IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR AN UNCONSCIOUS, BLIND MECHANISM TO HAVE CREATED THE COMPLEX INFO AND DESIGN IN LIVING THINGS. EVOLUTIONISTS, WHO SEEK TO PORTRAY NATURAL SELECTION AS A DIVINE CREATOR OF ALL LIVING THINGS ARE NO DIFFERENT FROM WORSHIPPERS OF IDOLS AND TOTEMS -
THEY ARE TODAYS TWENTY-FIRST CENTURY PAGANS WHO ARE TRYING TO LEGITIMISE IT IN A SO-CALLED SCIENTIFIC MANNER!!!
===========
===========
= In reality though, this theory (Evolution) is nothing more than an attempt by men (whose knowledge is quite limited) to try and explain how they think we might have been created without a Creator!!!

= For this reason, the Big Bang theory goes hand in hand with the theory of Evolution, which is an attempt to do likewise!!!

(earthage.org & problems with bigbang)
===========

yes, brother; i have put here your statement together with your spiritual evangelical twin brother’s statements, that you may see the striking similarity here! but i must admit that your evangelical twin brother is one step ahead of you here, because he is rightfully applying the same –highly erroneous– perspective to Big bang also, in the first place!
and yes, it should not be a big surprise at all that with these –highly erroneous– initial mind-sets,
how can one see any positive EVIDENCE about Big bang or Evolutionary Creation concepts, in the first place?

and by the way, you have not answered yet your evangelical twin brothers’ some rightful objections against Big bang creation concept.
let me put them here again then, and hope for your credible answers. and if you don’t have the right answers for these objections yet, maybe you’d better listen to your evangelical twin brother’s advise also on this issue, and totally refute Big bang creation concept at once & immediately!
because the same standard Scientific (= which is essentially based only on what is perceived with our five senses) rules are exactly applied to this theory also. (that is: coming out and evolving on its own and with certain mechanisms & in randomness & in spontaneousness etc.) this is Scientific standard! because Science cannot reach what is believed to be above our five senses (= inspirational communication/control of every thing/process in universe by our God). (17/44 & 41/11)

===========
1) Even if the Universe is expanding, speculative theories such as the Big Bang still cannot account for the order and complexity that we see around us. This is because, explosions are never observed to create order, but rather disorder and chaos.

2) In effect, astronomers are now saying that many of the closer galaxies are red shifted because they are moving away from us, but the furthest ones are blue shifted —not because they are moving toward us, but— because they are younger. In other words, since the (blue-shift-for-furthest-galaxies) data doesn’t fit with the red shift theory, for objects that are supposed to be moving away from us, and since we are not ready to completely dump the Big Bang, then we’ll simply change the rules a bit!

3) For IF the Universe were indeed expanding, and IF the galaxies were all created as the result of a Big Bang, then they would all have formed at about the same time: meaning that the furthest galaxies should have the highest degree of red shift (and actually be red, as opposed to blue). But since they don’t, astronomers are now saying that the blue color has nothing at all to do with their motion, but is simply a sign of their age.

4) …However, none of these evidences are proof of a big bang, since each can be accounted for by things other than an explosion. In this regard, the editors of New Scientist remarked that:
“Never has such a mighty edifice been built on such insubstantial foundations.” And that: “… the big bang theory will definitely need some major modifications if it is to survive into the future.”

5) The discovery of such a complex and mature structure so early in the history of the Universe is highly surprising. Indeed, until recently it would even have been deemed impossible.
So this observation falsified the Big bang theory. To save the theory (upon which grants and reputations are established) an ad hoc patch must be found.

(earthage.org) big bang problems
===========

and now, in order to be able to see, all together hopefully, the righteous initial mind-set & perspective,
taught to us by our God, regarding these two great Scientific theories (and all the others) of our time,
i want to copy here again some critical/beneficial writings from above:

******************
and in the Scripture we also learn that
when God plans a process (=qada amran),
then He only says to it “be” (=koon)
and then it immediately starts to be (=feyakoonu),
as He wishes.

for example, when God wants to create “iron,”
He plans all the “stage by stage” process thereof beforehand,
and then He says to it “be,”
and thereupon in the stars all the elements start to be
from the simplest to the most complex (hydrogen & helium & lithium…) on its own in this “stage by stage” process,
and then “iron” comes up in the advanced stages of this process, fully under His inspiration & command.
(but this inspiration & command part cannot be observed by our five senses, and for this reason this part is the “belief” part of this scientific phenomenon. (israa 44 & fussilat 11)
but up until here, this is a process scientifically observed and accepted by all theists and atheists together & alike. and because that God’s inspiration & command and communication with all universe and in such processes cannot be observed by humans’ five senses,
all these processes & mechanisms are called “random processes” by scientific standards.
so whoever wants, after this, s/he can believe that these random processes are totally
inspired & controlled –above our five senses– by the Creator;
and whoever wants, after this, s/he can believe that these random processes are only of Natural source,
and does not go further than that. there is no compulsion in our religion (baqara 256) beyond this point.
we can only tell about the magnificence of all these mechanisms & processes and the magnificient final products thereof, and invite people to God based on this knowledge; but then the final decision regarding this important issue always rests with the individuals…
no compulsion beyond this point.

and we can apply this rightful/basic perspective to all the other scientific subjects as well, including big bang and our evolution of course.
********************

yes, if we can get this rightful/basic perspective, as directly recommended to us by our Lord in His wonderful Scripture, in the first place,
perhaps then all the barriers between us and Science will be totally come down, and then perhaps we may also be able to see Big bang and Evolutionary creation concepts and related evidences much more honestly/rightfully.

and i will not again here further get into your
many deliberate, or out of context, or outdated, or flatly wrong “quotations” from your evangelical (skillfully cutting & pasting & distorting) sources.
if i try to copy all the scientific data and research and answers to these ill-based “quotations,” it will take days (maybe weeks) to copy/read them here, to see the full picture.
but again i will only give here some –simple to understand for everyone– basic credible scientific web site addresses that all the sincere persons go and get some credible scientific information & answers & questions to be solved yet
on these issues,
and then they may hopefully understand again why a great
majority of all scientists –theists &
atheists together– are still strongly supporting this
Evolution(ary creation) concept and its related many fundamental evidences today, worlwide.

(and one last important note here may be that:
in these web sites the refutation of “Creationism” always refer to “Evangelical Anti Evolutionary Instant Creation Model.” so the ones who believe in “Evolutionary Creation Model” have nothing to fear or be anxious about the collapse of this “Instant Creation Model” and most of its invalid objections.)

(and also when reading these kind of essential scientific articles –especially related to Big bang and
Evolutin(ary Creation)– the terms like “randomly” & “spontaneously” etc. should always be perceived as “inspirational” actions by God,
by all believers, because in our universe everything do only act via His inspiration/command in our belief, (israa 44 & fussilat 41)
but because this “inspiration” can never be observed by our five senses (israa 44 & fussilat 11),
in scienctific (= which is based only on what we can observe with our five senses) literature only those terms are used.
but all over the world all great theistic scientists and believers who basically believe in and support Big bang and Evolutionary creation concepts always read these scientific articles with this godly perspective in mind.)

===============

Fossil evidence
Homologies
Distribution in time and space
Evidence by example

(evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/artic le/0_0_0/lines_02)

Evolution 101
This in-depth, multi-part course takes you through evolutionary theory and mechanisms, from definitions to details, natural selection to genetic drift, mutations to punctuated equilibrium.

Mechanisms of evolution
Learn about the basic processes that have shaped life and produced its amazing diversity.
This article is located within Evolution 101.

Evolutionary trees and patterns in the history of life
Scientists use many different lines of evidence to reconstruct the evolutionary trees that show how species are related.
This article is located within Evolution 101.

Evolution at different scales: Micro to macro
Microevolution and macroevolution encompass change at very different scales, but both work through the same basic processes.

Phylogenetic systematics, a.k.a. evolutionary trees
Learn about phylogenetic systematics, the study of the evolutionary relationships among organisms, and how the field is shaping biological research today.

Evolution and the fossil record
Evolution is a fundamental concept in modern biology. Review the basics of how evolution works with a special focus on evidence and examples from the fossil record.
This article appears at the American Geological Institute website.

(evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/searc h/topicbrowse2.php?topic_id=41)

==============================

Evolution – Definition

Natural Selection – Definition

Beneficial Mutations

Beneficial Mutations in Humans

Natural Selection Has Been Observed in Nature Many Times

The Adaptive Evolution Database (TAED) – BioMed Central

Genetic Basis of Evolution – Studies that are attempting to determine the physical effects of genetic differences between closely related species.

Gene Duplication Adapts To Changing Environment – University of Michigan – How “new information” is added to an organism’s DNA through duplication and divergence of genes. (Evangelical Creationists claim that this is impossible.)

Gene Duplication Separates Vertebrates from Invertebrates – Washington University In St. Louis

Speciation & Macroevolution

Observed Instances of Speciation by Joseph Boxhorn

Some More Observed Speciation Events by Chris Stassen, James Meritt, Anneliese Lilje, and L. Drew Davis

Plagiarized Errors and Molecular Genetics by Edward E. Max, M.D., Ph.D.

UC Riverside Study Suggests Placentas Can Evolve In 750,000 Years Or Less; Guppy-Like Fish Help Fill In The Gaps In The Evolution Of Complex Organs
Press release from the Univesity of California, Riverside.

Gondwana Split Sorts Out Mammalian Evolution Press release from the Univesity of California, Riverside announcing that the evolutionary relationships of the placental mammals have been worked out using comparative molecular methods.

29 Evidences for Macroevolution by Douglas Theobald

====================

The Fossil Record

Transitional Vertebrate Fossils FAQ by Kathleen Hunt

Evolution and the Fossil Record: by John Pojesta, Jr. and Dale A. Springer

The Fossil Record: Evolution or Evangelical Creation
by Clifford A. Cuffey (hosted by GCSSEPM). I highly recommend the page that document the fossil evidence of the evolution of mammals from early reptiles”

Taxonomy, Transitional Forms, and the Fossil Record by Keith B. Miller

Evidence of Evolutionary Transitions by Michael Benton, Ph.D.

Smooth Change in the Fossil Record by Don Lindsay from his Creation/Evolution pages (another very good resource for evolution evidence).

Transitional Features in Archaeopteryx by Dr. Gallo of By Bayou U.,

Fossil Record 2 – A database of fossil information at the family level and higher.

Limb Evolution

==============================

Evidence for Human and Ape Common Ancestry

Chromosomal Evidence for Common Ancestry of Humans and Apes

Retroviruses from Kimball’s Biology Pages This article is an introduction to retroviruses, which will be helpful when reading the following articles on endogenous retroviruses.

Constructing primate phylogenies from ancient retrovirus sequences by Welkin E. Johnson and John M. Coffin

Many human endogenous retrovirus K (HERV-K) proviruses are unique to humans by Madalina Barbulescu, et. al.

Primate Genetic Distances

How to Compare Genetic Distance Among Species

Fossil Hominids: the evidence for human evolution by Jim Foley

(www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoEvidence.html)

Posted by evolutionary creation | Report as abusive

Look up like i said “Why Darwinism is incompatable with the Qu’ran” Harun Yayha and you will clearly see that ALL of those verses which you force and load up in accordance with your psychological sicknesses especially when seen in context and in light of other verses DO NOT show evolution.

I am tempted to go through each and every verse with you but i am on oath. However much you keep showing the same verses over and over again, the replies to your FANTASIES are waiting ready for you.
You just need the courage to look them up and see for yourself. If you say that you have already done this but still maintain your position , this clearly displays your INSINCERITY.

MODERN SCIENCE HAS CLEARLY NOT COME UP WITH ANY EVIDENCE FOR EVOLUTION AS DEMONSTATED IN MOUNTAIN-LOADS ABOVE.

THEREFORE IT IS NO SURPRISE THAT THE QU’RAN – THE LAST AND FINAL TESTAMENT/GUIDANCE TO MANKIND, WHICH WILL ALWAYS PARALLEL ESTABLISHED SCIENTIFIC FINDINGS SHOULD MAKE NO MENTION OF ANY EVOLUTION – ESPECIALLY THE RIDICULOUS AND FANTASY FAIRY-TALE STYLE CHANGING FROM ONE SPECIES INTO ANOTHER!

PLEASE BRO, SERIOUSLY DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR AND WAKE UP!

DO YOU THINK THAT ALLAH WOULD EVER GIVE DISBELIEVERS/ATHEISTS ETC THE OPOORTUNITY TO SHOW THAT THE UNIVERSE IS POSSIBLY THE RESULT OF CHANCE!
THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION EVER SINCE COMING ONTO THE SCENE HAS ALWAYS BEEN USED IN AN ATTEMPT TO DISPROVE GOD’S EXISTANCE AND MOCK RELIGION.

BUT ALHAMDULILLAH! THAT WILL ALWAYS REMAIN ONLY THEIR VAIN WISHFUL-THINKING.

TO PROVE AND KNOW OF GOD’S EXISTANCE IS EASY FOR THE SINCERE AND OBJECTIVE-HEARTED PERSON EG:

THE QU’RAN WHICH MENTIONS ESTABLISHED MODERN SCIENTIFIC FINDINGS 12-1400 YEARS AGO PROVES THAT GOD EXISTS AND THAT QU’RAN IS HIS WORD. A TWO BIRDS WITH ONE STONE JOB!

MODERN SCIENCE HAS ALWAYS WITH BIG BANG, DESIGN IN NATURE ETC HAS ALSO PROVEN THAT HE EXISTS.

ALL THIS MEANS IS THAT THERE IS NO ROOM WHATSOEVER IN INTELLECTUAL TERMS FOR DENIAL AND THAT THOSE WHO DO , ONLY DO SO BECAUSE OF THEIR PRIDE,ARROGANCE,SELFISH AND REBELLIOUS
DECISION IN NOT WANTING TO SUBMIT AND WORSHIPPING HIM.

===========
= DO YOU THINK THAT ALLAH WOULD EVER GIVE DISBELIEVERS/ATHEISTS ETC THE OPOORTUNITY TO SHOW THAT THE UNIVERSE IS POSSIBLY THE RESULT OF CHANCE!
THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION EVER SINCE COMING ONTO THE SCENE HAS ALWAYS BEEN USED IN AN ATTEMPT TO DISPROVE GOD’S EXISTANCE AND MOCK RELIGION.
===========
===========
= In reality though, this theory (Evolution) is nothing more than an attempt by men (whose knowledge is quite limited) to try and explain how they think we might have been created without a Creator!!!

= For this reason, the Big Bang theory goes hand in hand with the theory of Evolution, which is an attempt to do likewise!!!

= Even if the Universe is expanding, speculative theories such as the Big Bang still cannot account for the order and complexity that we see around us. This is because, explosions are never observed to create order, but rather disorder and chaos.

(earthage.org & problems with bigbang)
===========

you and your –one step ahead– spiritual evangelical twin brother are still holding on to the same ignorant/ill-based tirade against credible Science (= Big bang & Evolutionary Creation) mainly because of your this sick-based initial mind-set & perspective.

i think i already tried to explain all the illnesses
in this initial mind-set & perspective many times
in many writings above, and also tried to give the cure for it from the Word of God. (please see some critical writings on this issue above: May 15 6:38 & May 30 1:34)

and here, other than these, i only want to give
some great theistic scientists’ basic/rightful perspective in this Evolution(ary Creation) concept;

here is Dr. Francis Collins,
on CNN commentaries:

*******************
As the director of the Human Genome Project,
I have led a consortium of scientists to read out the 3.1 billion letters of the human genome,
our own DNA instruction book.

As a believer, I see DNA, the information molecule of all living things, as God’s language, and the elegance and complexity of our own bodies and the rest of nature as a reflection of God’s plan.

I had always assumed that faith was based on purely emotional and irrational arguments, and was astounded to discover, initially in the writings of the Oxford scholar C.S. Lewis and subsequently from many other sources, that one could build a very strong case for the plausibility of the existence of God on purely rational grounds.
My earlier atheist’s assertion that “I know there is no God” emerged as the least defensible.”

But reason alone cannot prove the existence of God. Faith is reason plus revelation, and the revelation part requires one to think with the spirit as well as with the mind. You have to hear the music, not just read the notes on the page. Ultimately, a leap of faith is required.

So, some have asked, doesn’t your brain explode?
Can you both pursue an understanding of how life works using the tools of genetics and molecular biology, and worship a creator God?
Aren’t evolution and faith in God incompatible?
Can a scientist believe in miracles like the resurrection?

Actually, I find no conflict (between Evolution and Creator) here, and neither apparently do the 40 percent of working scientists who claim to be believers.

Yes, evolution by descent from a common ancestor is clearly true.
If there was any lingering doubt about the evidence from the fossil record, the study of DNA provides the strongest possible proof of our relatedness to all other living things.

But why couldn’t this (Evolution) be God’s plan for creation?
True, this is incompatible with an ultra-literal interpretation of Genesis, (Evangelical Anti BigBang and Anti Evolutionary interpretation)
but long before Darwin, there were many thoughtful interpreters like St. Augustine, who found it impossible to be exactly sure what the meaning of that amazing creation story was supposed to be.

So attaching oneself to such literal interpretations in the face of compelling scientific evidence pointing to the ancient age of Earth and the relatedness of living things by evolution seems neither wise nor necessary for the believer.

———
i think again based on that –erroneous– evangelical literal interpretation, to assume that:
God may have created all human beings, with His own hands,

= separately,
= instantly,
= immune from all –past or future– evolution,
just like Him,

in the perfect physical Image of Him,
and then sent Jesus as a God Incarnate!! messenger to these Godlike!! humans,

evangelical interpretation is neither wise nor necessary at all for the christian believers. (Mark 12/29 & 10/18 & Matthew 4/10)
i hope that many righteous christians may also see this truth and return to true Jesus (= Honorable Servant of God) in this most critical third Day (= Millennium)
(John 6/44-45) & (Matthew 4/10 & Mark 10/18)
(Aale Imraan 55 & Maaedah 17)
———-

I have found there is a wonderful harmony in the complementary truths of science and faith. The God of the Bible is also the God of the genome.
God can be found in the cathedral or in the laboratory. By investigating God’s majestic and awesome creation, science can actually be a means of worship.
********************

Dr. Francisco Ayala gave a lecture entitled
“Evolution Is a Fact and It Is the Unifying Concept of Biology” USA april 2008:

********************
Ayala first pointed out that evolutionary biology follows the methodology of geology and other sciences.
The fossil record, to some extent, mirrors geological evolution.
As geologists discovered patterns in rock layers showing millennia of change and development, Darwin and subsequent biologists found organisms that reflected these changes over time.

Contrary to Ayala, (evangelical anti-evolutionary instant) intelligent design proponents argue that the theory of evolution is unreliable because the fossil record is missing the intermediates between one species and its evolutionary successor.

Acknowledging this opposing view, Ayala’s presentation included a slideshow with photographs indicating that the intermediate species between a modern fish and its oldest ancestors “show characteristics typical of amphibians.”

The same links between species exist in human development. Ayala pointed out that, “At the time Darwin died in 1882, no hominids were known.”
Since then, scientists have found several human ancestors with intermediates.
Ayala explained the connection between man’s predecessor and modern man by drawing on traits such as bipedalism, the method of walking on rear limbs.

“No traits evolve in a continuous manner …
[but] bipedalism appeared very early on,” Ayala said.

According to Ayala, one skeleton, named “Lucy,” dating back more than three million years, shows bipedalism in the hip structure.

Isolation also has an effect on the development of species. Ayala referred to Darwin’s own research on the Galapagos, where turtles were able to develop to unusually large sizes because the archipelago had few predators.

Similar environment-specific traits exist in all species. Ayala showed a chart of finches, demonstrating that each had traits relative to its environment.
There is evidence that all finches are offshoots of an original finch variety and kept suitable traits as they evolved.

“[The finches] deviated from the beginning;
they are not designed by an (evangelical
anti-evolutionary instant) engineer,” Ayala said.

The study of proteins and enzymes has yielded evidence about the types of amino acids that appear in spheres of the environment.
These findings indicate that evolution sprouted from a single kind of organism. As proof of his argument, Ayala stressed the relatively small number of enzymes present in organisms when compared to the hundreds of organisms that exist.

“Only 20 [enzymes] are used for organisms. … Molecular biology provided the strongest evidence for evolution,” Ayala said.

However, during the question-and-answer portion of his presentation, Ayala focused more on the philosophical side of the argument.
Ayala was careful to note that none of this scientific evidence is mutually exclusive to religion.

“The theory of evolution is better for religion than (evangelical anti-evolutionary instant) intelligent design …
[and] it is not impossible that evolution was guided by God,” Ayala said.

When asked if religion should be removed from science courses, Ayala gave a surprising answer.

Religion is not science, but the fact that
“Science is compatible with Religion”
is an important thing to state in science classes,
Ayala said.
********************

and here (theist scientist) Dr. Francis Collins argues in favor of “existence of a Creator”
before (atheist scientist) Dr. Richard Dawkins:

********************
COLLINS: I don’t see that Professor Dawkins’ basic account of evolution is incompatible with God’s having designed it.

TIME: When would this have occurred?

COLLINS: By being outside of nature, God is also outside of space and time. Hence, at the moment of the creation of the universe, God could also have activated evolution, with full knowledge of how it would turn out, perhaps even including our having this conversation. The idea that he could both foresee the future and also give us spirit and free will to carry out our own desires becomes entirely acceptable.

———-
(please note that Dr. Collins’ these ideas are strikingly similar to our basic monotheistic/islamic belief system in God.)
———-

DAWKINS: I think that’s a tremendous cop-out. If God wanted to create life and create humans, it would be slightly odd that he should choose the extraordinarily roundabout way of waiting for 10 billion years before life got started and then waiting for another 4 billion years until you got human beings capable of worshipping and sinning and all the other things religious people are interested in.

COLLINS: Who are we to say that that was an odd way to do it? I don’t think that it is God’s purpose to make his intention absolutely obvious to us. If it suits him to be a deity that we must seek without being forced to, would it not have been sensible for him to use the mechanism of evolution without posting obvious road signs to reveal his role in creation?

TIME: Both your books suggest that if the universal constants, the six or more characteristics of our universe, had varied at all, it would have made life impossible. Dr. Collins, can you provide an example?

COLLINS: The gravitational constant, if it were off by one part in a hundred million million, then the expansion of the universe after the Big Bang would not have occurred in the fashion that was necessary for life to occur.

When you look at that evidence, it is very difficult to adopt the view that this was just chance.
But if you are willing to consider the possibility of a Designer, this becomes a rather plausible explanation for what is otherwise an exceedingly improbable
event –namely, our existence.
********************

Posted by evolutionary creation | Report as abusive

Everything you keep pointing or referring me to has already been REFUTED MANY TIMES Bro but despite this you insist on thumbsucking propaganda.

I have already shown the invalidity via the many admissions of evolutionists themselves of all the things you point to.

As alway to keep yourself updated on the latest propaganda concerning a myth called evolution on:

DARWINISM-WATCH.CO

The following books contain the refutation of evolution and the propaganda that attempt to keep it alive on the agenda in the interest of ideological (materialism) reasons which are crucial to THE SECULAR WORLD ORDER.

THE DARK SPELL OF DARWINISM – How evolutionists twist the truth to deny God

ATLAS OF CREATION

EVOLUTION DECEIT

DARWINISM REFUTED

HOW FOSSILS OVERTURNED EVOLUTION

THE STONE AGE: A HISTORICAL LIE

THE ERRORS OF NAS

A DEFINITIVE REPLY TO EVOLUTIONIST PROPAGANDA

THE SECRET BEYOND MATTER

THE DISASTERS THAT DARWINISM BROUGHT TO HUMANITY

GLOBAL FREEMASONRY- THE ARCHITECTS OF SECULAR WORLD ORDER

TEMPLARS AND FREEMASONS

DARWINISM-WATCH.CO – To keep updated with the latest propaganda.

Any person that reads these books and many others and is sincere and objective can no longer truly believe in evolution and social darwinism.
It would serve that person as a wake-up call and correct that person’s world-view which is not how the media present it to us.

brother, i think i already answered all your –and your evangelical friends’– uninformed & ignorant & biased views and objections against Big bang and Evolutionary Creation concepts, in the first place.
but it is clear that you will keep on propagating your uninformed & ignorant & ill-based position and views, wholeheartedly. and you may do so, as long as you want…

no argument with you after this; peace be with you.
may God AWAKEN you in the future, if He wills so. (Qasas 56 & Aaraaf 30)

and please, see here again some very critical writings above (from May 11, to May 22),
which may basically expose this “anti-reality” Gnostic and “anti-evolutionary” Evangelical ideologies of our time and their possible connection/relation with MESSIAH DAJJAAL –and maybe even ISLAMIC DAJJAAL in their footsteps– basic false religious doctrines of our time.

and please also visit this web site to see a very old (at least 150 & 200 years old) shrewd Evangelical tactic (= pretentious anti masonic propaganda) which they have been using as a facade/means to provoke especially Christian believers against Evolutionary Creation concept and especially Islamic Religion and Prophet Muhammad, wrongfully, for a long long time.

(bibleprobe.com/freemasonry.htm)
(bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm)

but please, –especially Muslim friends– NEVER get incited here by these anti Islamic-Religion and anti Evolutionary-Creation ignorant & evil evangelical propaganda, but we should maintain our morality & steadfastness, and give the best answers to these false claims, as our God rightfully commanded so, to all of us.
(Aale Imraan 186 & Furqaan 63)
=======================================

and here i want to quote again some statements of an evangelical ideologist here, that we may better understand the “root cause” of this fanatic
anti evolutionary-creation sentiment, once again, at the deepest:

====================
Evangelical Christianity and evolution are incompatible beliefs that cannot be held together logically within a distinctly Christian worldview,
R. Albert Mohler Jr. says in the Aug. 15 edition of TIME magazine.
====================

TIME solicited the views of four experts with different answers to the question “Can you believe in God and evolution?” Mohler, president of Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Ky.,
comments from an evangelical Christian perspective.
Other participants include Francis Collins of the Human Genome Research Institute who argues for theistic evolution, Harvard University psychology professor Steven Pinker who articulates the naturalistic evolutionary position, and Lehigh University professor Michael Behe who makes a case for intelligent design.

====================
Mohler, a young-Earth creationist, says the Bible is clear about the way in which God created the earth in six days. He argues that Christianity and evolution offer opposing views of human origins.

———-
but as i mentioned above, one Day is sometimes also used in Bible for a “long period of time” (= a thousand years) Psalms 90/4
so many Christians today may/do understand these 6 days creation as “6 long periods creation” story.
———-

“Given the human tendency toward inconsistency, there are people who will say they hold both positions,” Mohler writes. “But you cannot coherently affirm the Christian-truth claim and the dominant model of evolutionary theory at the same time.

“… I believe the Bible is adequately clear about how God created the world, and that its most natural reading points to a six-day creation that included not just the animal and plant species but the earth itself.
“But there have always been Evangelicals who asserted that it might have taken longer.

What they should not be asserting is the idea of God’s having set the rules for evolution and then stepped back. And even less so, the model held by much of the scientific academy: of evolution as the result of a random process of mutation and selection.”

———-
of course, God does NEVER step back, but He may be controlling & manipulating the evolutionary processes at every moment via His inspirational commands. (israa 44 & anaam 59) (anbeyaa 30 & nooh 13-14 & insaan 1 & …)
and He may be using

= selective pressure,
= mutations,
= natural selection etc.
(and others we may not know yet)

as God-initiated inspirational “mechanisms” (= constant sunnatu Allah 35/43) to proceed with His Evolutionary Creation. (as our God may have also initiated such constant “mechanisms” for creating many other natural phenomena (= in Big bang & forming of stars & forming of clouds & earthquakes & typhoons etc.) (and only our God can be above these mechanisms; no one can change, or intervene, or manipulate these mechanisms, but only He,
whenever He wished/wishes so.)

but because we can never perceive our God’s inspirational commands & control over all these processes with our five senses (17/44 & 6/59 & 30/48 & …), these are only called “random processes” in Scientific (= what is essentially based only on what we can perceive with our five senses) standards.
(to get a little bit more detailed rightful Scriptural perspective on these critical issues, please see again the writing above: May 30, 1:34)
———-

====================
Collins, who considers himself a Christian, says believers may view evolution as a bona fide explanation for the origin of the universe.

“I see no conflict in what the Bible tells me about God and what science tells me about nature,” Collins says.

“… I do not find the wording of Genesis 1 and 2 to suggest a scientific textbook but a powerful and poetic description of God’s intentions in creating the universe. The mechanism of creation is left unspecified.”
====================

====================
But theistic evolution usurps the biblical teaching of “man being made in the image of God,”
Mohler says.
Evangelicals must affirm the special creation of humans by the sovereign Creator who rules, cares for and governs His creation, Mohler says.
====================

here comes again this well-guarded “root cause” behind this fanatic anti Evolutionary-Creation sentiment.

= But theistic evolution usurps the biblical teaching of “man being made in the image of God,”

and perhaps, rightfully so;
because anyone who believes in Evolutionary Creation concept among the believers –especially from
Christians– may/can/shall also understand that:

= human beings have NOT been created

separately,
instantaneously,
immune from all past and future evolution,
–just like Him–

in the perfect physical Image of Him,

= and so Jesus definitely was not sent to these Godlike!! creatures as a God Incarnate!! messenger.

and our God now in this age may have revealed to us this wonderful –scientifically backed– “Evolutionary Creation” concept,
beside Jesus’ eye opening words in this issue,
that we may all come together and unite and worship our
one true Unevolutionary/Perfect God, (who is unlike anyone, Deutoronomy 4/15-18 & Quran 42/11)

and we may know that we are all just humble human beings that are product of an evolutionary creation,

so we are definitely not instantaneous & unevolutionary/perfect Godlike!! creatures,
and so Jesus was definitely not a perfect God Incarnate!! messenger…

but he was/is only a humble –but exceedingly Honorable–human Servant of God, who worshipped God alone and commanded all the Christians to follow him and do the same:

**********
Jesus said: Get away, satan! it is written:
The Lord, your God, shall you worship
and Him alone shall you serve. (Matthew 4/10)

Jesus said: why do you call me “good”?
no one is “good” but GOD alone. (Mark 10/18)
**********

and please also see here again, how a –worldwide
popular– evangelical site (christiananswers.net)
have long put this argument in their “DANGERS OF THEISTIC EVOLUTION” list:

———-
danger no 5=
The incarnation of God through His Son Jesus Christ
is one of the basic teachings of the Bible.
The Bible states that “The Word was made flesh
and dwelt among us” (John 1:14),
“Christ Jesus… was made in the likeness of men” (Philippians 2:5-7).

The idea of evolution undermines this foundation
of our salvation. Evolutionist –Christian Scientist–
Hoimar von Ditfurth discusses the incompatibility of Jesus’ incarnation and evolutionary thought:
“Consideration of evolution inevitably forces us to a critical review… of Christian formulations.
This clearly holds for the central Christian
concept of the ‘incarnation’ of God… ”
(christiananswers)
———-

====================
Stalwart evolutionists in recent years have moved away from theories that involve God, Mohler points out.
While he disagrees vigorously with their views, Mohler says:
the evolutionist’s rejection of God and embrace of pure naturalism is more consistent than theistic evolution’s attempt to wed the God of the Bible with natural selection.

———-
yes; there may be a highly skillful implication
here from our evangelical priest for us:

be an atheist,
rather than being a theistic evolutionist!!
this is more consistent!!

i may understand your dismay, mr. evangelical priest,
your fundamental –highly erroneous– Doctrine may be
AT STAKE here!
but unfortunately, perhaps there may not be goodnews to you from Jesus (= Honorable Servant of God) either, on this critical issue:

**********
Jesus replied: the first is this:
hear, o israel! the Lord our God is Lord alone!
(Mark 12/29)

Jesus said: Get away, satan! it is written:
The Lord, your God, shall you worship
and Him alone shall you serve. (Matthew 4/10)

Jesus said: why do you call me “good”?
no one is “good” but GOD alone. (Mark 10/18)

Jesus said: many will say to me on that day:
lord, lord, did we not prophesy in your name,
did we not drive out demons in your name,
did we not do mighty deeds in your name?

then i will declare to them solemnly:
i never knew you. depart from me, you EVILDOERS! (Matthew 6/22-23)
**********

====================
“I think it’s interesting that many of evolution’s most ardent academic defenders have moved away from the old claim that evolution is God’s means to bring life into being in its various forms,” he says.
“More of them are saying that a truly informed belief in evolution entails a stance that the material world is all there is and that the natural must be explained in purely natural terms. They’re saying that anyone who truly feels this way must exclude God from the story.
I think their self-analysis is correct…

———-
yes, i can understand how you wish
this were the general approach/attitude among all academics;
so you could vigorously continue to preserve & propagate your –highly erroneous– religious doctrine/agenda among all the believers.
but unfortunately, perhaps there may not be goodnews to you from most academics either, on this critical issue:

====================
Dr. Ayala was careful to note that none of this (evolutionary) scientific evidence is mutually exclusive to religion.

“The theory of evolution is better for religion
than (evangelical anti-evolutionary instant) intelligent design …
and it is not impossible that evolution was guided by God,” Ayala said.

When asked if religion should be removed from science courses, Ayala gave a surprising answer.

Religion is not science, but the fact that
“Science is compatible with Religion”
is an important thing to state in science classes,
Ayala said.

Dr. F. Ayala, a member of the National Academy of Sciences, USA, april 2008
====================

Posted by evolutionary creation | Report as abusive

I am only interested in FACTS and all my comments from 11th of April downwards will leave NO DOUBT to the sincere and objective Heart and mind to where the TRUTH lies Bro.

I have already told you several times that our differences with the evangelicals are what they are and i do not agree with some of their points – BUT i do agree with the fact that they also reject evolution (from cell and then species changing into species fairy tale!) which is a CORRECT POSITION in light of the scientific evidences of it\’s INVALIDITIES which have become most apparent from the 80\’s onwards – as clearly shown above.

The way they go about is their affair. We confront the issue from a Muslim perspective. Our true enemies though our those in the establishment who have and continue to deceive people with this FALSE SCIENCE and SOCIAL DARWINISM ideology/mentality and the undeniable harm it has done and continues to do to humanity.

Rather than becoming further divided with our co-religionists we should where it is possible seek COMMON TERMS with them. (and this is possible for eg with our shared beliefs of Creation and NOT EVOLUTION)
Otherwise we play further into the hands of anti-reliogionists circles who are at the moment dominant and no doubt would and do encourage such divisions.

If you have not already i reccomend the following books concerning the Dajjal:

Freemasons and Dajjal (The Anti-Christ) – Kamran R\’ad

Dajjal the AntiChrist – Ahmad Thompson

The Next World Order – Ahmad Thompson

From the Shadows – tapes

Good luck and peace and blessing from God Almighty be upon you

i want to quote here again from a very popular American Evangelical site some critical statements, in order that
we may see here, a little bit more clearly, how they have been using this pretentious “anti masonic propaganda” as a facade/means,
in order to basically demonize Islamic Religion and Prophet Muhammad in the eyes of all Christians, wrongfully, for a long long time (at least for 100 years).

and these kind of Evangelicals are also using this
same pretentious “propaganda,” to basically demonize Evolutionary Creation concept in the eyes of all Christians (mainly because of that well-guarded “root cause” seen in the previous writing; June 7).

and if we go to their web site now

(bibleprobe.com/freemasonry.htm)

we can also see lots of other deliberately-provocative
pretentious “anti masonic propaganda” in very much detail;
prepared most probably with the aim of presenting these Christian Evangelical founders, worldwide, as:

“heroes fighting against these secular & materialistic
Masons (= at the same time they see these Masons
as “satans” (= anti Christ army) who are covertly collaborating with Islam!!) who want to take over the whole world,

and “heroes that are destined to defeat these Masons
and then to bring the true Religion (= Evangelism!!) all over the world.”

yes, behind this mask –as to some extent exposed in some of above critical writings (from May 11,
to May 22)–
may definitely come out the real MESSIAH DAJJAAL (= Anti Christ) ideology of our time.
so we should exceedingly take care…

———-
MESSIAH DAJJAAL (= Anti Christ) is an ideology which will act purely “in the name of Messiah Jesus,”
and they will think that they are truly armies of Messiah Jesus,
and they will do every kind of evil in the name of Messiah Jesus,

as may have thus clearly pointed out to us by Jesus himself in Gospel (matthew 24/4-5, 11) (matthew 4/10 & mark 10/18 & matthew 7/22-23) and also by Muhammad in Quran (5/17-18 & 19/88-92 ).

and Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) may have furtherly (27/93)
pointed out to us that:
ISLAMIC DAJJAAL (= Anti Muhammad) is an ideology which will basically follow after these MESSIAH DAJJAAL ideology,
but they will think that they are truly armies of Mahdee Muhammad, who are hundred percent guided/guiding (= mahdee-muhtadoon) ones, in the first place. (Quran 7/30 & 6/112-113 & 5/17)

(and please also see these critical Quranic verses
for further possible detailed description of ISLAMIC DAJJAAL ideology and its mistaken/duped position: Quran 74/11-17 & 23/55-56 & 44/43-49)

so, picturing the freemasonry as MESSIAH DAJJAAL (= Anti Christ) ideology –as Evangelicals have been doing so for at least a 100 years by now– may only be a Satanic Deception, to camouflage this real Evangelical MESSIAH DAJJAAL (= Anti Christ) ideology of our time.

and please, take notice here that when all the Quranic verses which may definitely be showing us

“Reality of created Matter outside of us,
and then their Real images… (14/19 & 17/12 & 88/17-20 & …) (please see again one critical writing at May 17, 10:09 on this important issue)

and fact of Evolutionary Creation concept in Quran (21/30 & 71/13-14 & 6/133 & 76/1 & …)

is recited to Islamic Dajjal, he may utterly reject these kind of critical Quranic “verses” and act arrogantly against them for the sake of his
pseudo-religious agenda influenced by “anti-reality” and
“anti-evolutionary” real MESSIAH DAJJAAL ideologies. (74/11-17 & 7/30 & 6/112-113 & 5/17 & …)
———-

and again, i will try to answer here shortly/basically all of these Evangelical ill/false claims, and then again i will call all Christians & Muslims & Jews etc. here to come together under one true
God (= the God of Moses & Jesus & David & Muhammad) based on true Religious & Scientific (= Big bang and Evolutionary Creation) foundations.

but i again want to strongly remind especially to all Muslim friends here:
we should NEVER be provoked by these kind of false/ill claims, we should always answer with the morality & Rightness to defeat this kind of immorality & falsehood.
this is what our great Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) advised/commanded to us via great Quran: 3/186 & 16/125
only by this righteous way we shall exalt our great God (Allah) and our honorable Prophet Muhammad here. period. (3/31 = 3/186 & 16/125)

====================
The (Masonic) Shriner is given a red fez with an Islamic sword and crescent jewel on the front of it.
This sword emblem originates from 7th century Arabia when the Moslems, under the leadership of Muhammad (aka: Mohammed), slaughtered all Christians and Jews who would not bow down to the pagan moon god Allah. It is a symbol of subjugation.

(bibleprobe.com/freemasonry)
====================

Allah is definitely not the pagan moon god (auuzu billah), first of all;
but He is the true God of Abraham & Isaac & Ishmael & Moses & Jesus & David & Muhammad, as clearly prophesied in Bible. (Genesis 21/12-13)

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) may have never fought any Christians or Jews unjustly; but he may have always respected them, and may have advised/commanded them to uphold the Gospel of Jesus and the Torah of Moses,
and may have even tolerated those who unjustly mistreated him from among some fanatic violent
Christians and Jews. (Quran 5/44-47, 68 & 3/186)

====================
The (Masonic) Shriners appear to have begun innocently enough; except for their link to and allegiance to the pagan moon god (note the crescent emblem) Allah.

(bibleprobe.com/freemasonry)
====================

the crescent emblem has nothing to do with pagan moon god; but Allah is god of everything including the sun and that moon.

====================
The Illustrious Masonic Grand High Priest swears in new members who put their hands on a copy of the Muslim Koran.
Can we imagine a Christian preacher swearing off the God of Israel by embracing the pagan Allah?
They (=Masons) do!

(bibleprobe.com/freemasonry)
====================

He is definitely not a pagan Allah (auuzu billah), first of all;
but He is absolutely the most Honorable Allah,
the true God of Abraham & Ishmael & Isaac & Moses & Jesus & David & Muhammad, as clearly prophesied in Bible. (Genesis 21/12-13)

====================
The initiate swears a long oath that culminates in a typical Masonic vow of secrecy unto death.,
and it includes “and may Allah, the god of the Arab Moslem and Mohameddan support me. Amen.”
Shriners worship of the false god Allah, as the god of “our” fathers.

(bibleprobe.com/freemasonry)
====================

Allah is definitely not a false god (auuzu billah);
first of all.
but Allah is the only true God in the heavens and on the
earth, as rightfully stated & exalted in Bible and Quran together. (Genesis 21/13 & Deutoronomy 4/39) (Quran 2/127 & 43/84)

====================
And yet, professing Christians who are involved in the highest ranks of Freemasonry (Shriners) honor the persecution of Christians.
A Shriner honors Islam and its symbols. At meetings, Shriners utter things like: “And, with the Koran on the altar, we sealed our solemn oath in the name of Allah, the God of Arab, Moslem and Mohammedan, the God of our fathers.”

(bibleprobe.com/freemasonry)
====================

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) may have NEVER advised/commanded the persecution of any Christians and Jews, in the first place.
but on the contrary, he may have always tried to be in good relations with them, and he may have protected them (42/15), and he may have always tried to find the common points that would gather them together under one true God. (Quran 29/46 & 3/64)

====================
A (Masonic) Shriner traditionally prays by facing toward Mecca, and he must make a blood oath of allegiance to the pagan Allah as his god – and the blood-thirsty Mohammed (who cringed at even the sight of a cross) as his prophet. Remember Christians; Allah is that non-existent god of Islam who does not acknowledge Jesus as his Son….

(bibleprobe.com/freemasonry)
=====================

He is definitely not a pagan Allah (auuzu billah), first of all; but He is absolutely the most Honorable Allah,
almighty God of all of us (specifically all monotheistic Christians & Jews & Muslims & Others). (baqara 62)

Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) may have always supported Jesus and may have honored his prophethood greatly,
even though all the other arabs in his time saw Jesus as an impostor. (Quran 3/45 & 43/57-58)

yes, he may have acknowledged Jesus actually as an honorable Servant of God,
because in the old and new testament the term “Son” is always consistently used in the sense of “Servant,”
(deuteronomy 14/1 & psalms 2/7 & matthew 5/9)

but when some mistaken/duped christians, after Jesus’ departure, distorted this true meaning, God may have abrogated this term for this reason totally,
and commanded instead of it the more righteous new term: “Servant.” (Quran 2/106 & 43/59-65) (please also see: Jeremiah 23/35-40 for a good example of an abrogation of a distorted old term.)

=====================
The Muslim Qur’an (Koran) is literally dripping in evil! This demonically inspired document goes out of its way to lie about Jesus; thus negating the salvation Jesus made possible. Islam is uniquely at odds with Christianity in all its major dogmas.

(bibleprobe.com/freemasonry)
====================

Quran is actually dripping with goodness & mercy & mutual respect & love in essence. (4/114 & 90/17-18 & 49/13)
Quran may have always confirmed for the Christians possible salvation through the Gospel of Jesus. (5/46-47 & 68)
Islam may uniquely be at peace with righteous Christianity in all its basic teachings,
especially Jesus’ being an exceedingly honorable Servant of God, who worshipped God alone and advised/commanded all the Christians to follow him and do so. (Quran 3/45 & 43/63-64) (matthew 4/10 & mark 10/18)

********************

so Evangelicals,

= you should first totally discard these kind of false/immoral & baseless/despicable claims, and immediately repent and return to this true God (Allah);
the God of Moses & Jesus & David & Muhammad.

= you should never use this pretentious “anti masonic propaganda” in order to demonize Islamic Religion, or Reality of Matter concept, or Evolutionary Creation concept through them.

= you should never try to disguise yourselves as

“religious heroes fighting against secularism & materialism & masonism…”

though you yourselves may need some “Serious Guidance” in the first place.

= even though you may be controlling/influencing now many basic policies of the only Super Power on earth,

you may be utterly shocked in the near future, when you see the defeat of these MESSIAH DAJJAAL ideologies on earth, and rising of the true unity & peace
between all Christians & Muslims & Jews etc. under one true God (basically via the Reality of Matter, and the Big bang, and the Evolutionary Creation concepts).

Posted by evolutionary creation | Report as abusive

You are right Bro, the Masons infiltrate and disguise themselves as Muslims, Christians, Jews etc to achieve their aims.

Just look at how Adnan Oktar has been sentenced to three years in jail as a result of a Masonic plot.

Anyhow lets us Thank Allah swt that we are aware of their plans and projects and that in the end:-

ALLAH WILL GIVE AS HE HAS DECREED THE FINAL VICTORY TO THE MUSLIMS

ALHAMDULILLAH WA SHUKRULILLAH

i want to quote here some more critical statements from
–worldwide popular– fundamentally Anti-Evolutionary Evangelical sites, that we may see a little bit better, what kind of manipulative tactics they have been using
–at least for 100 years by now– to demonize Evolutionary Creation concept in the eyes of all
–especially Christian– believers.
and i will try to give some credible answers to these Evangelical deliberate claims
via the rightful Scriptural perspective, taught to us by our Lord, in favor of Evolutionary Creation concept.

==========
Selfishness always has been considered as an evil behavior characteristic,
and though the tendency of the flesh is in this direction, no one really likes an obviously selfish person. However, evolution with its basic postulates of “struggle for survival” and “survival of the fittest” makes selfishness or selfpreservation the first law of life. Thus, evolution, consistently applied, would lead to the destruction of Christianity’s Golden Rule
and to the exaltation of the Iron Rule
—i.e. that “might makes right.”
What the world needs now, however, is less selfishness and more love for one’s neighbor
—less evolution and more pure Christianity.

(evangelical–apologeticspress.org)
==========

= basic postulates of “struggle for survival” and “survival of the fittest” makes selfishness or selfpreservation the first law of life.

yes, but these may be the basic postulates for “animal kingdom” only,
as our God may have clearly pointed out to us so,
in His Word. (74/50-51 & 22/31 & …)
but He may have also taught to us in His Word that:
we, humanbeings, should not be like animals at all
(because we may have been evolved by our God specifically to be different than them 6/133 & 2/30-33);
but we should learn the Word of God and get rid of ourselves from these kind of animalistic behaviours completely, (2/30-33, 37)
and we should grow our souls by being merciful & loving & caring for each other & considerate humanbeings,
like our great ancestor Adam did. (2/30-33, 37) (90/13-18 & 49/13 & 4/114 & …)

= What the world needs now, however, is less selfishness and more love for one’s neighbor
—less evolution and more pure Christianity.

yes, i guess we may have already seen –especially in the last eight years perhaps– enough of the consequences of less Evolutionary Creation and more pure
anti-evolutionary Evangelical Christianity, worldwide,
that is more love for one’s neighbor (especially if they have enough oil reserves to be taken care of, no matter how much those neigbors may feel a little bit uncomfortable maybe from this much love!)
and in history also all those anti evolutionary Godlike!!
Evangelicals’ violent crusades –made falsely in the name of God Incarnate!! Jesus– must have stemmed from this same kind of neighborly love & humility!

==========
The evolutionary concept with its postulates of “survival of the fittest” and “progress of favored
races” has served as a philosophical basis for several movements that have affected behavior adversely in
the modern world. Among these are Naziism, Fascism, Racism, Communism, religious liberalism and others.
To document all of this would require voluminous quotations from writings of the militarists such
as Bernhardi, Nietzsche, Hitler, and others.

(evangelical–apologeticspress.org)
==========

using this kind of –social darwinism– arguments to invalidate Evolutionary Creation concept may fundamentally be ill/wrong, in the first place.
i want to copy here a critical writing from above, that we may see here again the rightful Scriptural perspective, elaborately taught to us by our Lord, on this critical issue:

********************
to see the “survival of the fittest” concept a person need not to believe Darwin or anything in the first place, but only he should just look around:

in school,
in bussiness,
in sport, etc.

if you work/study hard, and prepare yourself,
and thus fit into your ever changing working/studying conditions/environment well,
you will “survive,”
but if not, you will fail and be eliminated.
and our God has also already informed us about this worldly “rivalry/competition” (= aduvvan) among us in His scripture as part of a “God Written Test” upon us. (baqara 36)

but He may have also informed us that our rivalry/competition among us shall be quite different from animals in the wild. (Muddaththir 50-51)

= we shall absolutely not shed each others’ blood like wild animals do to each other. (baqara 30-33)

= we shall definitely take care of all the
stumbled/failed ones among us in our (God-Written) rivalry/competition; (aaraaf 24 & balad 14-18)
we shall not strike anyone down, and abandon them, like wild animals do to each other;
but we shall always act with great SUPPORT & CARE & MERCY for each and every human being among us.
(balad 14-18 & nesaa 114 & …)

(and only if we can make it to paradise, hopefully all together, after this, there shall never be any rivalry/competition among human beings there in any subject whatsoever anymore, because the test is happily over now = yaaseen 55-58)

after all, did not our God specifically “evolved” our great ancestors as modern human beings out of some –a little bit wild– humanlike “primates” (= qavman aahareen) to be a precious “successor” (= haleefatan) on earth, (baqara 30 & anaam 133)
but even the angels may not have understood this at first, and they thought that these too would be “animalistic & blood shedding” creatures like the previous –a little bit wild– humanlike primates, from whom they came out. (baqara 30 & anaam 133)

———-
because that angels are said to definitely not know “future” (= gaybu, 27/65) they must have assumed this, by observing this miraculous Evolutionary process, as it might have occurred just in front of their eyes,
but then they must have wrongly thought that this new creature will be same –as wild– as the old ones.
of course, they might not have had any idea about what God would give –in terms of new Body & Spirit and
Knowledge– to this new precious creature,
and then even the angels would be commanded to prostrate before him.
———-

but God already knew what they could not have even imagined before. (baqara 30-33)

so despite all these facts, if there are still many animalistic (= blood shedding or greedy or wild or self centered etc.) creatures –nazis & fascists & racists–among us
(and unfortunately there are and will always be as part of our worldly test = aaraaf 179),

it is definitely not our God’s fault,
and not His “Evolutionary Creation” technique’s fault,

but only those human beings’ own fault,
who flatly rejected to “evolve” enough yet, as to reach our great ancestor Adam’s honorable/knowledgeable “Evolutionary Position & Understanding & Spirit” by getting the Word of God into their souls. (baqara 30-33, 37 & anaam 133)
but they preferred to stay in animalistic –morally low–state by shutting their brains & eyes & ears to the Word of God. (aaraaf 179) as had been anticipated for all human beings by Angels before. (2/30 & 6/133)
********************

and of course, there always must be laws & orders
to prevent these kind of animalistic people –nazis & fascists & racists etc.– from doing harm to others. (aaraaf 179 & baqara 251)
it is a problem for all humanly –religious or nonreligious– people on earth, and we can succeed in preventing these kind of evils on earth, if we get united and always cooperate in humanly ways.

so using these kind of Evangelical arguments to totally invalidate Evolutionary Creation concept may fundamentally be ill/wrong in the eyes of our God, in the first place. (2/30-33) (21/30 & 71/13-14 & 6/133 & 76/1 & …)

and also in the same way, we should not totally invalidate Christianity, using all the wrongdoings
–violent crusades etc.– stemming from ill Evangelical interpretations of Bible. (5/46-47 & 68)

Posted by evolutionary creation | Report as abusive

Bro, you are still insisting on propagating the falsehood of evolution which has been EXPOSED, REFUTED AND KILLED. (evolutionists themselves know it although they do NOT ADMIT IT!) My comments as i have said many times have clearly shown it’s scientific invalidity and the consequences it has handed to humanity and which it still does.

I SAID THIS THIS BEFORE:- IT IS ON A LIFE-SUPPORT MACHINE WAITING TO BE SWITCHED OFF AND IT WILL BE FOR DEFINATE WHEN THE MAHDI (as) TURNS UP ON THE SCENE AS PROMISED BY ALLAH.

THEY PROPAGATORS OF FALSEHOOD WILL NOT BE IN CONTROL OF THE MEDIA THEN!

JUST LEAVE IT NOW TO THE SINCERE AND OBJECTIVE HEARTED SEEKER OF THE TRUTH TO SEE WHERE THE TRUTH LIES.

[...] The mysterious Istanbul writer Harun Yahya (actually Adnan Oktar) is clearly spending large amounts of money sending this unwelcome book around Europe. Where does he get it from? [source] [...]

More vain attempts to try and dicredit an great, brave and truly heroic individual who has UTTERLY EXPOSED , REFUTED AND RUINED THE FAIRY TALE OF EVOLUTION.

So much so that Adnan Oktar has been sentenced to prison for alleged financial irregularities! (masons hand no doubt)

GO NOW AND CHECK HOW FOR 150 YEARS EVOLUTIONISTS HAVE RESORTED TO LIES, FABRICATIONS AND SCANDALS TO PROVE A MYTH AND THEN COMPARE THAT TO THE FEW FISHING LURES THAT MUPPETS GO ON ABOUT – and you will come to a solid conclusion: YOU ARE CLUTCHING AT STRAWS.

It is clearcut that your world-view has been ruined and you cannot stomach it but clinging to false hopes will only increase your humiliation.

Even if there are a few ‘dodgy’ pictures that does not take away the fact that the rest of the hundreds of pictures (with more atlases and public fossil exhibitions on the way!) PROVE AND MAKE THE POINT CONCLUSIVELY.

No verbal acrobatics, distracting the attention and referring to cowboy sites and links can manouveur your way out of it.

THE ATLAS OF CREATION IS NOW IN THE OPEN FREE ON THE INTERNET FOR THE SINCERE SEEKER OF THE TRUTH!

WHOEVER COMES TO KNOW OF THE SINISTER DECEPTION THAT IS EVOLUTION CAN NO LONGER SINCERELY AND CONFIDENTLY BELIEVE IN IT ANY LONGER.

IT IS ALL OVER

i want to give here some excerpts from the latest edition (year: 2008) of “Science and Evolution” book
from National Academy of Sciences, Usa,
that we may a little bit better understand what is the latest position and understanding in
Evolution(ary Creation) concept, and what is the position of majority of –theist & atheist & agnostic etc.– Scientists, and also many Theologians, on this critical issue.
and i highly recommend the free online copy of this book
at this address:

(http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?recor d_id=11876&page=R1)

for all friends who may want to get a deeper perspective & understanding on this critical issue here.

*****************************
SCIENCE, EVOLUTION
and –Evangelical– CREATIONISM
NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES, USA;

For more than a century and a half, scientists have been gathering evidence that expands our understanding of both the fact and the processes of biological evolution. They are investigating how evolution has occurred and is continuing to occur.

———-

In 2004, for example, a team of researchers made a remarkable discovery. On an island in far northern Canada, they found a four-foot-long fossil with features intermediate between those of a fish and a four-legged animal. It had gills, scales, and fins, and it probably spent most of its life in the water. But it also had lungs, a flexible neck, and a sturdy fin skeleton that could support its body in very shallow water or on land.

———-

The team that discovered the new fossil decided to focus on far northern Canada when they noticed in a textbook that the region contained sedimentary rock deposited about 375 million years ago, just when shallow-water fishes were predicted by evolutionary science to be making the transition to land.

———-

The discovery of Tiktaalik, while critically important for confirming predictions of evolution theory, is just one example of the many findings made every year that add depth and breadth to the scientific understanding of biological evolution. These discoveries come not just from paleontology but also from physics, chemistry, astronomy, and fields within biology. The theory of evolution is supported by so many observations and experiments that the overwhelming majority of scientists no longer question whether evolution has occurred and continues to occur and instead investigate the processes of evolution. Scientists are confident that the basic components of evolution will continue to be supported by new evidence, as they have been for the past 150 years.

———-

An understanding of evolution was essential in the identification of the SARS virus. The genetic material in the virus was similar to that of other viruses because it had evolved from the same ancestor virus. Furthermore, knowledge of the evolutionary history of the SARS virus gave scientists important information about the disease, such as how it is spread. Knowing the evolutionary origins of human pathogens will be critical in the future as existing infectious agents evolve into new and more dangerous forms.

———-

Another example of microevolutionary change comes from an experiment on the guppies that live in the Aripo River on the island of Trinidad. Guppies that live in the river are eaten by a larger species of fish that eats both juveniles and adults, while guppies that live in the small streams feeding into the river are eaten by a smaller fish that preys primarily on small juveniles. The guppies in the river mature faster, are smaller, and give birth to more and smaller offspring than the guppies in the streams do because guppies with these traits are better able to avoid their predator in the river than are larger guppies. When guppies were taken from the river and introduced into a stream without a preexisting population of guppies, they evolved traits like those of the stream guppies within about 20 generations.

———-

Incremental evolutionary changes can, over what are usually very long periods of time, give rise to new types of organisms, including new species. The formation of a new species generally occurs when one subgroup within a species mates for an extended period largely within the subgroup. For example, a subgroup may become geographically separated from the rest of the species, or a subgroup may come to use resources in a way that sets them apart from other members of the same species. As members of the subgroup mate among themselves, they accumulate genetic differences compared with the rest of the species. If this reproductive isolation continues for an extended period,
members of the subgroup may no longer respond to courtship or other signals from members of the original population. Eventually, genetic changes will become so substantial that the members of different subgroups can no longer produce viable offspring even if they do mate. In this way, existing species can continually “bud off” new species.

== maybe we should reflect here again on this wondrous Word of our Lord in this respect:

if He wants, He may make you go away (=yuthhebkum)
–perhaps far away from the main population– first,
and –thus– He may bring a new creation (=halqan cadeeden). (14/19)

———-

Many scientific theories are so well established that no new evidence is likely to alter them substantially. For example, no new evidence will demonstrate that the Earth does not orbit around the Sun (heliocentric theory), or that living things are not made of cells (cell theory), that matter is not composed of atoms, or that the surface of the Earth is not divided into solid plates that have moved over geological timescales (the theory of plate tectonics). Like these other foundational scientific theories, the theory of evolution is supported by so many observations and confirming experiments that scientists are confident that the basic components of the theory will not be overturned by new evidence. However, like all scientific theories, the theory of evolution is subject to continuing refinement as new areas of science emerge or as new technologies enable observations and experiments that were not possible previously.

———-

One of the most useful properties of scientific theories is that they can be used to make predictions about natural events or phenomena that have not yet been observed. For example, the theory of gravitation predicted the behavior of objects on the Moon and other planets long before the activities of spacecraft and astronauts confirmed them. The evolutionary biologists who discovered Tiktaalik (see page 2) predicted that they would find fossils intermediate between fish and limbed terrestrial animals in sediments that were about 375 million years old. Their discovery confirmed the prediction made on the basis of evolutionary theory. In turn, confirmation of a prediction increases confidence in that theory.

———-

In science, a “fact” typically refers to an observation, measurement, or other form of evidence that can be expected to occur the same way under similar circumstances. However, scientists also use the term “fact” to refer to a scientific explanation that has been tested and confirmed so many times that there is no longer a compelling reason to keep testing it or looking for additional examples. In that respect, the past and continuing occurrence of evolution is a scientific fact. Because the evidence supporting it is so strong, scientists no longer question whether biological evolution has occurred and is continuing to occur. Instead, they investigate the mechanisms of evolution, how rapidly evolution can take place, and related questions.

———-

Today, many religious denominations accept that biological evolution has produced the diversity of living things over billions of years of Earth’s history. Many have issued statements observing that evolution and the tenets of their faiths are compatible. Scientists and theologians have written eloquently about their awe and wonder at the history of the universe and of life on this planet, explaining that they see no conflict between their faith in God and the evidence for evolution. Religious denominations that do not accept the occurrence of evolution tend to be those that believe in strictly literal interpretations of religious texts.

———-

Many religious denominations and individual religious leaders have issued statements acknowledging the occurrence of evolution and pointing out that evolution and faith do not conflict.

“[T]here is no contradiction between an evolutionary theory of human origins and the doctrine of God as Creator.”
— General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church

“[S]tudents’ ignorance about evolution will seriously undermine their understanding of the world and the natural laws governing it, and their introduction to other explanations described as ‘scientific’ will give them false ideas about scientific methods and criteria.”
— Central Conference of American Rabbis

“In his encyclical Humani Generis (1950), my predecessor Pius XII has already affirmed that there is no conflict between evolution and the doctrine of the faith regarding man and his vocation, provided that we do not lose sight of certain fixed points…. Today, more than a half-century after the appearance of that encyclical, some new findings lead us toward the recognition of evolution as more than an hypothesis. In fact it is remarkable that this theory has had progressively greater influence on the spirit of researchers, following a series of discoveries in different scholarly disciplines. The convergence in the results of these independent studies — which was neither planned nor sought — constitutes in itself a significant argument in favor of the theory.”
— Pope John Paul II, Message to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, October 22, 1996.

“We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as ‘one theory among others’ is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator…. We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge. We ask that science remain science and that religion remain religion, two very different, but complementary, forms of truth.”
—“The Clergy Letter Project” signed by more than 10,000 Christian clergy members.

———-

“(Evangelical) Creationists inevitably look for God in what science has not yet explained or in what they claim science cannot explain. Most scientists who are religious look for God in what science does understand and has explained.”
— Kenneth Miller, professor of biology at Brown University and author of Finding Darwin’s God: A Scientist’s Search for Common Ground Between God and Religion.

“In my view, there is no conflict in being a rigorous scientist and a person who believes in a God who takes a personal interest in each one of us. Science’s domain is to explore nature. God’s domain is in the spiritual world, a realm not possible to explore with the tools and language of science. It must be examined with the heart, the mind, and the soul.”
— Francis Collins, director of the Human Genome Project and of the National Human Genome Research Institute at the National Institutes of Health.

———-

== other than these there are, of course, also many Muslim Scientists & Theologians who support Evolutionary Creation concept against this Evangelical Anti Evolutionary Instant Creation concept.

Posted by evolutionary creation | Report as abusive

YOU ARE STILL IN CUCKOO LAND MY BROTHER.

As people might not have the time to read for themselves many of my previous comments i will include them here again.

EVOLUTION BRO HAS BEEN PROVEN CONCLUSIVELY TO BE INVALID. If you insist otherwise you need to do the following:

(1) Prove that all of a sudden the wondrous cell is not incredibly complex and that mathematically it is possible for it to have come about by chance/coincidental and random processes.

(2) That the so-called king-pin of evolution, natural selection(the dressed up blind chance-based imaginary false deity of evolutionists) via mutations adds new beneficial information to the genes therby fuelling evolution.

(3) The cambrian Explosion never happened

(4) Thermodynamics supports evolution instead of burying it

(5) The fossil record supports it with innumerable examples of transitional forms as would have most certainly existed had it happened and therby conclusively proving it without any shadow of a doubt to “stubborn” people like me! All we have had so far is fakes, frauds, cartoons based on the imagination,speculation and deceptive fossil interpretations of an alleged few which evolutionists try to portray as such and not ONE SINGLE GENUINE exapmle of a transitional form.

(6) That the enormous info in DNA can be reduced to matter and explained in materialist terms which is ideoligically crucial to the evolutionist point of few

(7) That the images (see The secret beyond matter/Darwin’s Dilemma, the Soul by HY for more detail) seen at the back of the brain like in our dreams too can also be explained in material terms

(8) That the mainstreammedia for eg on the Discovery Channel, History Channel, National Geographic,Hollywood, news channels and various scientific journals have made all of the above present to the common people.Even if they were to do it in their typically circulatory and tautalogical style and engaging in verbal acrobatics. NOT EVEN THAT! THEY SIMPLY DO NOT WANT IT OUT IN THE OPEN

The following books contain the refutation of evolution and the propaganda that attempt to keep it alive on the agenda in the interest of ideological (materialism) reasons which are crucial to THE SECULAR WORLD ORDER(architects of are – freemasons)

THE DARK SPELL OF DARWINISM – How evolutionists twist the truth to deny God

ATLAS OF CREATION

EVOLUTION DECEIT

DARWINISM REFUTED

HOW FOSSILS OVERTURNED EVOLUTION

THE STONE AGE: A HISTORICAL LIE

THE ERRORS OF NAS

A DEFINITIVE REPLY TO EVOLUTIONIST PROPAGANDA

THE SECRET BEYOND MATTER

THE DISASTERS THAT DARWINISM BROUGHT TO HUMANITY

GLOBAL FREEMASONRY- THE ARCHITECTS OF SECULAR WORLD ORDER

TEMPLARS AND FREEMASONS

DARWINISM-WATCH.CO – To keep updated with the latest propaganda.

Any person that reads these books and many others and is sincere and objective can no longer truly believe in evolution and social darwinism.
It would serve that person as a wake-up call and correct that person’s world-view which is not how the media present it to us

I will give a list of teqniques which Darwanists employ to keep alive the illusion of evolution.

(1) They depict evolutionist scientists as very learned, superhuman individuals

(2) Those who accept the theory of evolution are presented as respected scientists; those who do not accept it are branded as conservatives

(3)They try to influence people by using scientific terms and concepts that laymen cannot understand

(4)In order not to break the spell of Darwinism, they themselves do not read, nor do they want their followers to read anything that criticizes them

(5) In order that the spell of Darwinism may not be broken, evolutionists keep their supporters from thinking

(6) They pass over questions about evidence for the collapse of the theory of evolution with dismissive responses and later give the impression that they have answered them

(7) Darwinists resort to every kind of rhetorical device to get people under their influence

(8) By continually repeating empty words as in a hypnotic spell, they try to put people’s logic to sleep

(9) They try to prove evolution on the evidence of irrelevant topics and dicoveries

(10) They use scientifically unwarranted topics and discoveries as proofs of evolution

(11) They try to spread the Darwinist spell by suggestions made by visual effects

(12) They try to make the public believe that to be a real scientist, one must accept the theory of evolution

For more detail and info on each of the headings above you can read for free on Harun Yayha ‘ The Dark spell of Darwinism’ How Darwinists twist the truth to turn people away from God

EVIDENCE FOR EVOLUTION WOULD HAVE BEEN PRESENTED A LONG TIME AGO. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED FACT INSTEAD OF A THEORY (A DISPROVEN ONE AT THAT) WHICH IT STILL IS.

I HAVE TOLD YOU MANY TIMES BEFORE THAT WHATEVER IS PRESENTED AND REFERRED TO AS EVIDENCE TURNS OUT TIME AND TIME AGAIN TO BE NO SUCH THING. IT HAS NO IMPORTANCE HOW RECENT THE \’EVIDENCE\’ OR PROPAGANDA IS , FOR THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN AND ALWAYS WILL BE:

IMAGINATION + MUCH SPECULATION FUELLED BY VAIN,DESPERATE AND HOPELESS WISHFUL-THINKING VIA FALSE PROPAGANDA = THE FAIRY TALE OF EVOLUTION!

N.A.S has not ALL OF A SUDDEN resolved the quandary that the theory of evolution, at EVERY LEVEL, finds itself in! They like all other evolutionary organisations simply ignore the facts and carry on deceptively engaging in propagating via propaganda what has been proven to be a CLEAR-CUT FALSEHOOD AND MTYH.

LIFE DID NOT START FROM A CELL IN A PRIMORDIAL SOUP AND THEN PROGRESSIVELY WENT ON FROM SPECIES CHANGING INTO OTHER SPECIES AND SO ON.
THIS IS WHAT THE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE FROM THE MOLECULAR TO PALEONTOLOGY HAS CLEARLY SHOWN AND NO VERBAL ACROBATICS, DEMAGOGY AND DECEPTIVE PROPAGANDA CAN EVER CHANGE THIS REALITY.

DARWINISM-WATCH.COM WILL KEEP YOU UPDATED

BUT MY BROTHER UNFORTUNATELY YOU ARE SUBJECT TO MANY PSYCHOLOGICAL COMPLEXES WHICH PREVENT YOU FROM SEEING
OR RATHER ACCEPTING THE EVIDENT TRUTH.

IT IS SUCH A VAIN AND HOPELESS ENDEAVOUR TO CARRY ON INSISTING AND BELIEVING IN EVOLUTION THAT I AM CONVINCED YOU NOW KNOW INSIDE YOURSELF THAT IT IS NONSENCE AND THAT YOU DO NOT SINCERELY BELIEVE IN IT ANY LONGER.

I RECCOMEND READERS TO TAKE A LOOK AT ATLAS OF CREATION(letters of thankyou from education ministers, news articles etc) AND THE IMPACT IT HAS HAD IN FRANCE, BELGIUM, GERMANY ETC
ON HARUN YAYHA\’S WEBSITE

And although God Almighty could have, had He wanted Created LIFE via evolution(changing from species into other species) , the FACTS are as SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE clearly shows – HE DID NOT!

brother joe,

as i –and some other friends– may have already answered all your basic ill-based misled/misleading arguments against

= the Reality of Matter, outside of us, issue,
based on valid Quranic & Scientific proofs and perspective; (May 16, 6:37) (May 17, 10:09)

= the factuality of Evolutionary Creation issue,
based on valid Quranic & Scientific proofs and perspective; (May 16, 6:37) (May 17, 10:09)
(May 27, 10:21) (May 30, 1:34) …

= the hidden (Evangelical) agenda behind worldwide
pretentious Anti Masonic propaganda,
based on solid quotational proofs and perspective;
(June 8, 9:48)

and as i may have also already expressed before, i will not go into any further argument with you on these subjects here. you can repeat yourself (= your Gnostic & Evangelical influenced ill-based & wrongful & biased arguments) as long as you want…
i may understand your –pseudo-religious/politic– motives.
may God guide you from the darknesses (= the dark sayings of gnostic & evangelical influenced false mahdees) into the light (= the bright teachings of
God-sent true Mahdee: Muhammad & Quran), if He ever wills so, in the future. (28/56) & (7/30 & 52/15-16 & 5/17 & …)

********************

now i want to give some more excerpts here from the same book (= Science, Evolution..)
prepared by National Academy of Sciences (year: 2008)
some basic answers against –evangelical– creationist claims & objections against the Evolution(ary Creation) concept, in general.
that we may a little bit better understand the position of all –theist & atheist & agnostic etc.– Scientists, and also many Theologians, in the face of these mostly evangelical uninformed/biased claims & objections.

********************
Science, Evolution
and –evangelical– Creationism
NATIONAL ACADEMY OF SCIENCES, USA,

********************

Creationism in its various forms is not the same thing as belief in God because, as was discussed earlier, many believers as well as many mainstream religious groups accept the findings of science, including evolution.
Nor is creationism necessarily tied to Christians who interpret the Bible literally. Some non-Christian religious believers also want to replace scientific explanations with their own religion’s supernatural accounts of physical phenomena.

== i would never prefer the evangelical literal interpretation of Bible, or the others’ literal interpretation of their Sources, to the Scientific data.
what comes from pure Science may basically be better
what comes from them. (maybe we should remember here the “earth centered universe” & “sun rotating around earth” & “flat earth” inferences
which may have stemmed from these kind of some Religious literal interpretations of Bible, and also other Sources, in the previous centuries.)

——————–

Creationists sometimes cite what they claim to be an incomplete fossil record as evidence that living things were created in their modern forms. But this argument ignores the rich and extremely detailed record of evolutionary history that paleontologists and other biologists have constructed over the past two centuries and are continuing to construct. Paleontological research has filled in many of the parts of the fossil record that were incomplete in Charles Darwin’s time. The claim that the fossil record is “full of gaps” that undermine evolution is simply false. Indeed, paleontologists now know enough about the ages of sediments to predict where they will be able to find particularly significant transitional fossils, as happened with Tiktaalik and the ancestors of modern humans. Researchers also are using new techniques, such as computed axial tomography (CT), to learn even more about the internal structures and composition of delicate bones of fossils. Exciting new discoveries of fossils continue to be reported in both the scientific literature and popular media.

== as i may have already mentioned before the basic evangelical tactic in the face of these kind of many possible “transitional forms” could be:

*******
if there is any fossil evidence as of a “transitional form” that may clearly show us evolutionary progression path of some species, then you should immediately deny it by making it into its closest species.

if it is closer to birds,
immediately say: it is just a bird!
if it is closer to reptiles,
immediately say: it is just a reptile!

if it is closer to apes,
immediately say: it is just an ape!
if it is closer to humans,
immediately say: it is just a human!

but the problem here is that: many times what some evangelicals call: just an “ape!”
the others call: just a “human!”
*******

because we may have already known that
in the first place they may be so sure that
“God created all the universe and earth and all the living things in it just in 6 normal days, with His own hands, and then He especially created all human beings just on 6th day, all

separately,
instantly,
immune from all past and future evolution,

just like Him,

in the perfect physical Image of Him!!!

so with this literal interpretation of Bible and the rigid belief thereof in one’s mind, can s/he ever see any “transitional forms” or any other positive evidence regarding Evolution(ary Creation)??
so, of course, they may/will forever continue to be asking:

Where Are The “Transitional Forms”…?

who could be “More Blind” than the ones who “Do Not Want To See” in the first place?

———-

Another compelling feature of the fossil record is its consistency. Nowhere on Earth are fossils from dinosaurs, which went extinct 65 million years ago, found together with fossils from humans, who evolved in just the last few million years. Nowhere are the fossils of mammals found in sediments that are more than about 220 million years old. Whenever creationists point to sediments where these relationships appear to be altered or even reversed, scientists have clearly demonstrated that this reversal has resulted from the folding of geological strata over or under others. Sediments containing the fossils of only unicellular organisms appear earlier in the fossil record than do sediments containing the remains of both unicellular and multicellular organisms. The sequence of fossils across Earth’s sediments points unambiguously toward the occurrence of evolution.

== but still in many evangelical web sites and “creation museums” the hard evidences regarding the

“human and dinosaur face to face intimate friendship”

can be observed by all pious believers, to the dismay of all atheist & materialist evolutionists!!!

———-

Creationists sometimes argue that the idea of evolution must remain hypothetical because “no one has ever seen evolution occur.” This kind of statement also reveals that some creationists misunderstand an important characteristic of scientific reasoning. Scientific conclusions are not limited to direct observation but often depend on inferences that are made by applying reason to observations. Even with the launch of Earth-orbiting spacecraft, scientists could not directly see the Earth going around the Sun. But they inferred from a wealth of independent measurements that the Sun is at the center of the solar system. Until the recent development of extremely powerful microscopes, scientists could not observe atoms, but the behavior of physical objects left no doubt about the atomic nature of matter. Scientists hypothesized the existence of viruses for many years before microscopes became powerful enough to see them.

———-

Thus, for many areas of science, scientists have not directly observed the objects (such as genes and atoms) or the phenomena (such as the Earth going around the Sun) that are now well-established facts. Instead, they have confirmed them indirectly by observational and experimental evidence. Evolution is no different. Indeed, for the reasons described in this booklet, evolutionary science provides one of the best examples of a deep understanding based on scientific reasoning.

== but perhaps we should remember here again the evangelical initial ill-based “reasoning” against the Big bang and Evolution(ary creation) concepts:

*******
In reality though, this theory (Evolution) is nothing more than an attempt by men (whose knowledge is quite limited) to try and explain how they think we might have been created without a Creator!!!

For this reason, the Big Bang theory goes hand in hand with the theory of Evolution, which is an attempt to do likewise!!! (earthage.org)
*******

because in evangelical belief system:
God does/must do everything
with His own hands,
without any mechanisms whatsoever…

but in other religious belief systems:
God does/can do everthing
without touching a hand to them
via His initial command “Be”
and then everthing starts to be,
from the simplest to the most complex,
under His full inspiration/command (Quran 17/44)
and in accordance with His pre-established plan & mechanisms…
(Quran 36/82 & 21/30 & 51/47)
(Quran 36/82 & 21/30 & 71/13-14 & 76/1 & 14/19 & …)

and maybe again for this reason in the Scripture our God may have also wondrously pointed out to us:

********
do they not watch the “mechanisms” (= malakoote)
of the heavens and the earth,
and whatever He has created,
and –thus understood that– perhaps their
predetermined-span may have neared… (Aaraaf 185)
********

yes, if the human beings closely watch and perceive
these “mechanisms” (= malakoote), perhaps they can even rightfully –to the extent He may want– predict many natural endings/spans in the heavens and on the earth

(the spans of many stars & black holes & galaxies & … in heaven)

(the spans of many resources & elements & and even all creatures –perhaps mainly due to evolutionary mechanisms in nature and in these creatures– on earth.)
(please also see here 14/19 & 6/133)

so our God may indeed be doing/creating everything in this way,
without touching a hand to them,
for example:

forming of the stars and then galaxies, (21/30 & 51/47)
forming of the clouds, (30/48)
forming of the typhoons, (51/41)
forming of the earthquakes, etc. (79/6)
and, of course, forming of all life forms
beginning from water, with the simplest, and then evolving as He wishes (21/30 & 71/13-14 & 76/1 & …)

so when science discovers all or some of the wonderful mechanisms that may be serving all of these creation techniques,
we do not get dismayed as most of these evangelicals unfortunately do,
but on the contrary, we get even more excited and praise the wisdom of our Lord. (36/82) (21/30 & 51/47) (21/30 & 71/13-14 & 14/19 & 76/1 & …)
and we do call everyone on earth to this magnificent God, through His magnificent Word, (without using any force or imposing our Religion on anyone. 2/256)

———-

This contention that nobody has seen evolution occurring further ignores the overwhelming evidence that evolution has taken place and is continuing to occur. The annual changes in influenza viruses and the emergence of bacteria resistant to antibiotics are both products of evolutionary forces. Another example of ongoing evolution is the appearance of mosquitoes resistant to various insecticides, which has contributed to a resurgence of malaria in Africa and elsewhere. The transitional fossils that have been found in abundance since Darwin’s time reveal how species continually give rise to successor species that, over time, produce radically changed body forms and functions. It also is possible to directly observe many of the specific processes by which evolution occurs. Scientists regularly do experiments using microbes and other model systems that directly test evolutionary hypotheses.

Creationists reject such scientific facts in part because they do not accept evidence drawn from natural processes that they consider to be at odds with the Bible.

To young Earth creationists, no amount of empirical evidence that the Earth is billions of years old is likely to refute their claim that the world is actually young but that God simply made it appear to be old.

== yes, with the same ill logic they may surely be thinking that: God must have put all of those fossil & genetic & molecular etc. abundant evolutionary evidences on earth,

= just to deceive these impious evolutionists!! that they believe it and go to hell,

= and just to test these highly pious evangelicals!!
that they utterly reject it and go directly to heaven.

(but please see again Matthew 4/10 & Mark 10/18 & Matthew 7/22-23 before a possible “sharp awakening” in the hereafter, before God and His honorable Servant Jesus.)

———-

However, the claims of intelligent design creationists are disproven by the findings of modern biology. Biologists have examined each of the molecular systems claimed to be the products of design and have shown how they could have arisen through natural processes. For example, in the case of the bacterial flagellum, there is no single, uniform structure that is found in all flagellar bacteria. There are many types of flagella, some simpler than others, and many species of bacteria do not have flagella to aid in their movement. Thus, other components of bacterial cell membranes are likely the precursors of the proteins found in various flagella. In addition, some bacteria inject toxins into other cells through proteins that are secreted from the bacterium and that are very similar in their molecular structure to the proteins in parts of flagella. This similarity indicates a common evolutionary origin, where small changes in the structure and organization of secretory proteins could serve as the basis for flagellar proteins. Thus, flagellar proteins are not irreducibly complex.

== our God does/can design everything through natural processes (the nature and all the laws governing it may only belong to our Lord in the first place 41/11),
whether it is as complex as flagella of bacterium
or as uncomplex as clouds in heaven.
but in both cases, our God does not give any evidence regarding His inspirational manipulation of these occurrences & creations. (17/44) (30/48)
but we may only see and believe in Him through the wonderful outcomes & amazing final products of these kind of inspirational creations. (36/82) (29/20 & 21/30 & 71/13-14) (77/20-22)
and nothing is “irreducibly complex” for our God; He can reduce it to its simplest elements and create it, without touching a hand to them, from their simplest forms to their most complex forms via His inspirational evolutionary manipulation/control. (29/20 & 21/30 & 71/13-14) but because this inspirational manipulation/control will never be perceived by our five senses (17/44 & 41/11), these occurrences will only be defined “random & spontaneous” occurrences in Scientific (= which is essentially based only on what is perceived by our five senses) standards. and in this regard, Science and Religion may continue as different Disciplines, but compatible with each other at the same time, if we can perceive this fundamentally important perspective. (Quran 36/82 = 29/20 & 21/30 & 51/47)
(21/30 & 71/13-14 & 76/1 & …) (77/20-22)

———-

Eyes in living mollusks. The octopus eye (bottom) is quite complex, with components similar to those of the human eye, such as a cornea, iris, refractive lens, and retina. Other mollusks have simpler eyes. The simplest eye is found in limpets (top), consisting of only a few pigmented cells, slightly modified from typical epithelial (skin) cells. Slit-shell mollusks (second from top) have a slightly more advanced organ, consisting of some pigmented cells shaped as a cup. Further elaborations and increasing complexity are found in the eyes of Nautilus and Murex, which are not as complex as the eyes of the squid and octopus.

———-

Evolutionary biologists also have demonstrated how complex biochemical mechanisms, such as the clotting of blood or the mammalian immune system, could have evolved from simpler precursor systems. With the clotting of blood, some of the components of the mammalian system were present in earlier organisms, as demonstrated by the organisms living today (such as fish, reptiles, and birds) that are descended from these mammalian precursors. Mammalian clotting systems have built on these earlier components.

———-

Existing systems also can acquire new functions. For example, a particular system might have one task in a cell and then become adapted through evolutionary processes for different use. The Hox genes (described in the box on page 30) are a prime example of evolution finding new uses for existing systems. Molecular biologists have discovered that a particularly important mechanism through which biological systems acquire additional functions is gene duplication. Segments of DNA are frequently duplicated when cells divide, so that a cell has multiple copies of one or more genes. If these multiple copies are passed on to offspring, one copy of a gene can serve the original function in a cell while the other copy is able to accumulate changes that ultimately result in a new function. The biochemical mechanisms responsible for many cellular processes show clear evidence for historical duplications of DNA regions.

———-

Also, science has a competitive element as well as a cooperative one. If one scientist clings to particular ideas despite evidence to the contrary, another scientist will attempt to replicate relevant experiments and will not hesitate to publish conflicting evidence. If there were serious problems in evolutionary science, many scientists would be eager to win fame by being the first to provide a better testable alternative. That there are no viable alternatives to evolution in the scientific literature is not because of vested interests or censorship but because evolution has been and continues to be solidly supported by evidence.

== but most (especially young earth) evangelicals still believe that they may completely defeat Big bang and Evolution(ary Creation) concepts, and bury it into the cartoon history forever in just one TV debate, but they are denied such a chance by the atheist & liberal media… (earthage.org)
what a “cartoon history” indeed!
your fathers may have already made the history before, a few times:

earth is center of universe,
because God Incarnate!! Jesus came & dwelled here!!
sun is rotating around earth,
because God Incarnate!! Jesus came & dwelled here!!

and so now you would like to make history again
in your fathers’ footsteps??

———-

sorry, but Jesus may not be with you again!
(matthew 4/10 & mark 10/18 & matthew 7/22-23)

Posted by evolutionary creation | Report as abusive

Bro, it does not matter how many of you gang up on me,the truth is firmly on my side.

IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR YOU OR ANYONE TO BE ABLE TO MEET THE CHALLENGE OF RESURECTING A MYTH WHICH EVOLUTIONISTS THEMSELVES KNOW IS OVER WITH.

UNFORTUNATELY THEY DO NOT ADMIT IT IN MAINSTTREAM CIRCLES
BUT ONCE A PERSON COMES TO KNOW OF IT, IT IS ALL OVER.

SO IT IS THE HEIGHT OF DELUSION TO CLAIM THAT YOU OR ANYONE ELSE HAVE ANSWERED OR REPLIED SUCCESSFULLY TO THE CHALLENGE!!

YOUR COMPLEXES CAUSE YOU TO STILL BELIEVE IN THEIR FALSE PROPAGANDA WHICH GET’S REFUTED TIME AND TIME AGAIN, EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE BEEN MADE AWARE MANY TIMES OF THEIR PROPAGANDA DECEPTIONS.

LIKE I SAID BEFORE ONLY SINCERETY CAN LIBEREATE YOU FROM
THE SPELL-BOUND DELUSIONAL STATE AND FANTASY WORLD YOU ARE IN.

NEEDLESS TO SAY MY REFUTATIONS STAND AND WILL ALWAYS DO SO CONSTANTLY. HOW CAN THEY NOT, WHEN I AM BACKED WITH SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE AND ADMISSIONS BY EVOLUTIONISTS IN THE MOUNTAIN LOADS AS MY COMMENTS HAVE CLEARLY DEMONSTRATED?!

THE REST AS ALWAYS IS PROPAGANDA BY WHICH THEY LIVE ON AND PEOPLE LIKE YOURSELVES AS IF HYPNOTISED THUMBSUCK ON.

DARWINISM-WATCH.COM

SERIOUSLY WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU/S?!

here i want to quote this time some highly enthusiastic
statements from Christian Science ideology, which claims that matter –in reality– does not exist at all!!
as we may have already seen in some critical writings above that Gnostic Christian ideology may have had some similar (but more delusional & dangerous) perspectives than these. and the Quranic and Gospelic rightful answers to these kind of delusional & dangerous claims may have already been given in short/basic terms in those critical writings. (May 16, 6:37) (May 17, 10:09)
then let us look now here at some of these Christian Science ideology claims:

==========
“Man is spiritual and perfect….
He is the compound idea of God, including all right ideas; the generic term for all that reflects God’s image and likeness….

(Science and Health, 475:11-20.)
==========

= in physical sense, no one on earth and in heaven may
NEVER be in the Image of God, in the first place.
because our God is definitely stated to be “unlike anyone & anything” from eternity to eternity. (Deutoronomy 4/15-20) (John 6/46 & Mark 10/18) (Quran 42/11)

==========
Christian Science teaches that God and his creation are completely spiritual and perfect.
Matter does not exist; it is an illusion to be overcome by understanding its nothingness.
We are subject to the laws of matter (called “mortal mind”) only to the extent that we believe they are real.
As we begin to understand that matter, including our bodies, is an illusion,
we become increasingly free from the consequences of living under that illusion.
Our experience begins to reflect that understanding in the form of healings.
==========

= matter may DO exist, in the first place,
because our God may have clearly stated that:
He has truthfully (= belhaqqe) created it, outside of us, in the first place. (14/19)
yes, we may not be subject to laws of matter, whenever our Lord may want to change that laws of matter for us, for a specific period of time or for an endless period of time, as in the case of Jesus or Abraham. (Matthew 14/26-27) (Quran 21/69)
but this does NOT mean that matter is an illusion;
it may absolutely be truth, and the laws of matter may absolutely be truth, outside of us,
but they can also be changed only by our Lord’s will, whenever He wants, in the way He wants.

==========
Christian Science never really explains where the belief in matter came from or why it seems to exist – it just does (seemingly), and it must be challenged at every turn as it constantly tries to convince us that our physical senses and environment are real.
==========

= yes, but they may actually be REAL! (14/19 & 88/17-20) and if we challange it at every turn, as you suggested, it may not be good at all for our physical and spiritual health! to live in a “delusional state” like this may not cure us, but instead it may make us sick to our stomach in the long run! (14/19 & 52/15-16)

Posted by evolutionary creation | Report as abusive

here i want to quote again from the same (fundamentally anti-evolutionary) much popular American Evangelical site (= bibleprobe.com) some more critical statements, that we may see & understand here the general “mind-set” of this very old and quite fanatic “anti evolutionary” sentiment, a little bit deeper.
and you may also see here again their pretentious
anti-masonic propaganda
-–which no doubt is prepared as shrewdly & provocatively as their anti-evolutionary propaganda–-
at the critical writing above: (June 8, 9:48)

———-
by the way, Evangelism is one of the most powerful fundamental Christian movement in USA and around the world, with at least 75.000.000 actual members just in USA.

Evangelism is the most powerful Religious Influence over USA’s political & cultural life, and its domestic and foreign policies, and worldwide.
———-

====================
Is there any scientific evidence of evolution?
We wrongfully teach evolution in schools, as if it were a truth and not what it is – a far out whacko theory!!
In all actuality there is none and never has been any “missing link” evidence!! other than thousands of hoaxes suggesting the theory of evolution should take precedence over the Word of God!! (= they may mean their ultra-literal Evangelical interpretation of Bible).

(bibleprobe.com/creationism)
==================

= i guess i may have already answered these kind of some biased & prejudiced Evangelical (anti-bigbang and)
anti-evolutionary sentiment and objections, in the first place,
and gave some credible scientific web-site addresses for the ones who may want to see & learn all credible fundamental evidences regarding Evolution(ary Creation) concept; so i will not again enter into the subject here. (June 5, 6:46) (June 16, 9:54)
but i will just quote some more interesting Evangelical anti-evolutionary statements here, that we might understand better & deeper.

===========
This is the lie that naturalist atheists would
have us believe.
It is for reasons like this I cannot bring myself to ever watch Cosmos, or to give PBS (= USA’s popular educational TV channel) any money.
Cosmos and many PBS Programs, like one on Muhammad & Islam, portraying this 7th century Muslim terrorist as a benevolent tribal leader, need to be watched with a critical (evangelical) eye!!

(bibleprobe.com/creationism)
====================

====================
In Job 41 God clearly described a dinosaur/dragon that lived during Job’s time!! God said it breathed fire.

(bibleprobe.com/creationism)
====================

= dinosaurs must have gone extinct long before prophet Job. so why would you push it here, to fit it into your
(anti-evolutionary) Religious (evangelical) fantasy?

====================
Doctor Ivanov had some dinosaur bones from America and Russia checked at the University of Arizona, using their newly developed dating method – the laser mass-spectrometry method.
Result –no more than 25,000 years old!!
Not the 170 million years when scientists say dinosaurs died out!!

(bibleprobe.com/creationism)
====================

====================
All archeological evidence supports the biblical account that a worldwide flood did happen!!
Countless fossilized sea creatures have been found on mountain tops!!
And countless fossilized creatures (including dinosaurs) have been found with food in their mouths
–as if they were suddenly buried in an avalanche of rushing water and mud!!

(bibleprobe.com/creationism)
====================

= in Bible and Quran, many Christians and Muslims understand this flood occurence –in Noah’s time–
as a “regional” God-given disaster, not “global.”
and these kind of Christians and Muslims mostly do
also believe in and support Old Earth and
Evolutionary Creation concepts.

====================
Scientists will not admit it, but their carbon dating technique is not any good at all beyond a couple of thousands of years!!
Because the effect of rushing water, heavy pressure
from water, and resting water
–rocks on this planet appear to be millions of years old to these unbelieving scientists and their carbon dating technique!!
Things fossilize much quicker than scientists will tell you!! Scientists will have you believe it takes millions of years to fossilize something!!
Yet a fossilized pickle has been found in a canning jar, and a fossilized foot has been found inside a
1930’s-1940’s boot in a West Texas riverbed!!

(bibleprobe.com/creationism)
====================

= every once in a while, some pious Evangelicals do also find a modern human footprint in the oldest strata together with dinosaurs.
so this fast fossilized “pickle” and “foot” story should not be much of a “wonder” for most people in US…

====================
Under the guise of science, the evolutionary theory
has been thrust on us without a shred of direct valid evidence!!
Its time people woke up to the fact that scientists worldwide are fraudulently holding up on high their bogus theory of evolution!!
Nothing in the fossil records indicate man existed more than 7,000 – 8,000 years ago!! (approx time Genesis says Adam & Eve were created)!!
(= but honestly i have never personally seen such a statement in Genesis.)
But there is an awful lot of fraud such as Piltdown Man and Neanderthal man in our search for our beginnings. And carbon dating is very suspect as most already know!!

(bibleprobe.com/creationism)
====================

= Fraudulent actions by some false Scientists cannot discredit all the Evolution(ary Creation) concept, because there may be many other real fundamental evidences supporting this Evolution(ary Creation) concept.
just like Fraudulent actions by some false Religionists cannot discredit all the true Religions,
because there may be many other fundamental evidences supporting these basically true Religions. (= especially Christianity & Judaism & Islam)

====================
In this book Marvin Lubenow exposes the “Evolution” scheme quite well.
It shows why scientists outright lie to maintain this theory even in light of much more historical and observable evidence for (evangelical anti evolutionary instant) creation!!
What good is a scientist who has never been “published”? And think how boring a created world would be to a scientist??
Answers to these may hint to why the evolution theory does not just flop off the table into cartoon history!!

(bibleprobe.com/creationism)
====================

= perhaps, seeing these kind of faithful statements may hint to why this evangelical (anti evolutionary instant) creation theory does not –and unfortunately will not– just flop off our table, any time soon.

====================
Know what I think? When the FLOOD happened… animals got buried in mass heaps wherever they floated. And that is what the fossil record shows!!
only it is being tampered with by atheist scientists who are blindly following the Darwinian religion!!

(bibleprobe.com/creationism)
====================

====================
Check out drdino.com for some great articles and 17 hours worth of video disproving evolution using SECULAR Science as a tool!!
Gotta love God’s marvelous (anti evolutionary instant) creation!!

(bibleprobe.com/creationism)
====================

= no doubt we will!
(Matthew 6/22-23) (Quran 6/112-113)

Posted by evolutionary creation | Report as abusive

When will you understand that i do not care about the evangelical point of view and their errors beyond sharing common terms with them in certain aspects as i have said many times before:

(1) That evolution as the scientific evidence has clearly and irrefutably shown (cell to species changing into different species and so on) has been fuly exposed and demolished.

(2) That God Almighty has not created LIVING THINGS via evolution although He could have had He wanted.

Now the way they go about it is their business. I as a Muslim deal with it from the Qu’ranic point of view which is error free in all aspects including scientific.

The REAL ENEMIES of ours are not generally speaking the evangelists although there our those who are clearly hostile, devious and untrustworthy BUT:

THE SECULAR WORLD ORDER (architects and maintainers – freemasons) WITH IT’S:

RACISM, SOCIAL DARWINISM, FALSE SCIENCE, POLLUTERS AND DESTROYERS OF THE ENVIRONMENT, FALSE PRESENTING OF HISTORY, “DEMOCRACY”,
FALSE CREATING OF ENEMIES eg so-called war on terror, encouraging of sexual immorality and breakdown of religious and family values and on and on…

AND OF COURSE YOU CAN SEE HOW AND WHY EVOLUTION IS IMPORTANT TO THE SYSTEM AND WHY THEY MUST AT ALL COST
KEEP IT ON THE AGENDA.

IF THEY WERE SO SURE AND CONFIDENT THAT EVOLUTION WAS FACT WHY DO THEY THEY NOT ALLOW CREATIONISM ALONGSIDE DARWINISM TO BE TAUGHT IN SCHOOL, COLLEGE AND UNI AND ALLOW PEOPLE TO MAKE UP THEIR OWN MINDS?

AND THE ANSWER OF COURSE IS VERY SIMPLE:

BECAUSE THEY KNOW IT WILL BE GAME OVER AND THEIR SECULAR WORLD ORDER WILL BEGIN TO COLLAPSE AS PEOPLE ON MASS WILL
START RETURNING TO RELIGION i.e GOD AND THAT IS THE VERY LAST THING THEY WANT.

EXAMPLE: WORKS LIKE THE ATLAS OF CREATION HAS TERRIFIED THEM BUT IT IS TOO LATE, IT IS NOW IN THE OPEN.

I AM TIRED OF HAVING TO REPEAT MYSELF OVER AND OVER AGAIN. MY MANY COMMENTS AND EVIDENCES WILL ALWAYS CONTINUE TO STAND FIRM AND IT IS POINTLESS TO KEEP GOING ROUND IN CIRCLES.

ALL YOU NEED TO DO IS RID YOURSELF OF YOUR COMPLEXES AND WAKE UP!

and here i want to give two journalists’ (one muslim, the other jew) critical accounts related to this (fanatic anti evolutionary) Evangelical movement in Usa, and its negative effects on many Christians, Muslims and Jews, worldwide, in general:

==============================
Hussein Shobokshi wrote in the Arab News a couple of years ago:

One of the main reasons for the growing Islamophobia in America today is the strong anti-Muslim rhetoric coming from the evangelical Christian leaders.
They have repeatedly made venomous statements about Islam, and the Bush administration continues to support them, suggesting that while the official position is that Islam is a religion of peace, the government does not have any issue cozying to those who hate Islam.
The latest decision by the White House to nominate a prominent Islamophobe to the board of the US Institute of Peace, and the invitation by the Pentagon to Franklin Graham, who described Islam as a wicked religion, are signs that even the top leaders are not protected from the impact of a group of bigoted religious fundamentalists who are undermining the secular character of America, subverting the peaceful message of Christianity and polluting the socio-cultural environment of America.
Rev. Jerry Falwell, Rev. Pat Robertson, Rev. Jerry Vine and Rev. Franklin Graham are four of the most prominent.

In the past few months they have unleashed an assault on Islam.
Reverends Falwell and Pat Robertson have called the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) a terrorist and argued that Islam and its teachings are the source of violence.
Rev. Franklin Graham has announced that Islam and its teachings are evil and wicked.

The problem with this group is not just their ideas and their hate mongering but the fact that they have a following large enough to influence the outcomes in American elections.
By virtue of their votes and their fund-raising capabilities they exercise more power over Congress and the president than the sheikhs of Saudi Arabia over the decisions of their king.
Furthermore, the close relationship between the president himself and Rev. Franklin Graham and some members of his administration like Attorney-General Ashcroft is extremely disturbing.
Is it possible that the very purpose of the Federal initiative to support faith-based programs is to allow these groups to influence their operations with those of the federal government?
Their involvement in postwar Iraq further strengthens these notions.

These groups’ main organizations are based in Nashville, Tennessee; a city that has become to evangelists what Rome is to Catholics.
Hate mongering is exceptional in the Christian communities of America.

Most other Protestant groups and Catholics in general have gone way beyond the call of duty to befriend, support, protect and comfort American Muslims in their hour of need, and most Christian groups opposed the war against Iraq as unjust and have condemned anti-Muslim bigotry.
Saudi Arabia recently fired its zealot imams (in an overdue decision) who have been providing hateful sermons in mosques.

Is it not possible for America to do the same with these fundamentalist Christians preachers of terror? The world would be better off.

Arab News Opinion 1 July 2003
==============================

==============================
Dave Neiwert specializes in covering the racist and
anti-Semitic propaganda in the American Right and he quotes a news report on Kent Hovind’s anti-evolution efforts in the Dover, Pennsylvania area:

Did you know that the theory of evolution was cooked up
–probably by Jews– as part of a New World conspiracy to enslave mankind? No?

Well, the people agitating for teaching “creation science” in the schools at Dover, Pa.,
will tell you that if you talk to them long enough.

Not that it came out publicly this week, when Michael Marcavage’s Repent America outfit –whose work in Dover I recently discussed– sponsored an appearance at Dover Area High School by none other than “Doctor Dino” himself, Kent Hovind.
They’re much too clever for that –instead, they keep the banter to a steady stream of trite rhetorical bombs:

Much of creationist speaker Kent Hovind’s seminar felt more like a clean stand-up comic show than a religious lecture.
Hovind, a creation science evangelist, used terms including “American Communist Lawyers’ Union” when referring to the ACLU.
He called the Big Bang Theory a “cosmic burp,”
and said “Charlie Darwin’s” lies should be removed from textbooks.

He joked about his former experience as a science teacher for 15 years and said students taught him that “There’s not much intelligent life on this planet.”

He went on to call evolution the “dumbest and the most dangerous religion in the history of the earth.”

You see, Hovind and his ilk save the “serious stuff” for later.

As earlier coverage of the Hovind seminars noted, Hovind is actually a right-wing extremist with a penchant for promoting anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.
And of course, Marcavage denied the charges, in imitable fashion:

Michael Marcavage, whose Philadelphia-based organization Repent America is sponsoring Hovind’s visit, said the accusations of anti-Semitism and extremism are unfair.

“He believes that people are from one race, the human race,” Marcavage said.

He said some Jewish organizations, such as the
Anti-Defamation League and the American Civil Liberties Union, are targeting Christians because of their faith.

“Those who do not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh are under the spirit of anti-christ,” Marcavage added, a reference to 1 John 4:2-3.

———-
== so according to Evangelism anyone from Christians & Jews & Muslims & Others on earth who rejects the idea that “Jesus is sent as a God Incarnate!! perfect human messenger into the Godlike!! perfect human beings”
must be under the spirit of Anti Christ (= MESSIAH DAJJAAL)!!
i may have already tried to point out a little bit in some of my critical writings above:
in reality who may be under the spirit of Anti Christ (= MESSIAH DAJJAAL) and the pivotal importance of Evolutionary Creation idea in this regard. (June 8, 9:48)
———-

Yes, you see: Jews can’t help being under the spirit of the anti-Christ. Well, they could if they converted (and worshipped Jesus as God Incarnate!!).
But otherwise, it’s just in their nature. And defending themselves against (evangelical) anti-Semitic smears is of course how they “target Christians.”

Actually, Marcavage and Hovind are birds of a feather: far-right extremists trying to pose as nominally normal, mainstream folks. The Southern Poverty Law Center report on Hovind’s “Dinosaur Adventure Land” –a creationist theme park for kiddies– makes clear that this isn’t just generic fundamentalism:

Opened in 2001, Dinosaur Adventure Land sprung from Hovind’s Creation Science Evangelism ministry,
which began to evolve in the late ’80s.
CSE sells videos and audiotapes of Hovind’s lectures and his debates with evolutionary scientists, along with books on “Evolution and the New World Order.”
(At least one of them, Fourth Reich of the Rich, alleges a Jewish conspiracy to take over the world.)

An earlier SPLC report detailed just what comprises Hovind’s theological approach:

Do you think the theory of evolution is a Satanic plot to bring about the New World Order?
Are you worried that Darwin’s idea produced “Communism, Socialism, Naziism, abortion, liberalism and the New Age Movement?”
Then (Evangelical Priest) Dr. Kent Hovind is for you.

Hovind, who runs the Creation Science Evangelism ministry from Pensacola, Fla.,
says the whole Bible is literally true and that the Earth is only 6,000 years old.
While that may seem par for the creationist course, Hovind also sells anti-Semitic books like Fourth Reich of the Rich.

Environmentalism and income taxes, Hovind says, are designed to destroy the United States and “bring it under Communism.”
“Democracy,” he says, “is evil and contrary to God’s law.”
====================

and here is part of a comment i have seen below this article from a Christian reader:
====================
Wow, I didn’t know this guy was still causing trouble.
In the late 90′s, I was completely taken up by his rhetoric and his fear-based, fundamentalist agenda.
I made a bunch of copies of his seminar and tried to give them to my ‘unsaved’ friends in high school (a 7-tape, 14-hour-long seminar on almost every topic surrounding creationism –I’m sure he’s updated it since then).
According to ‘Dr.’ Kent Hovind, all you have to do is argue your neighborhood atheist into faith (Christians are closet atheists if they believe in evolution, according to his logic, so he won’t have anything to do with theistic evolution).

———-
== i may have already given some quotations from another prominent Evangelical priest above
who may have clearly implied that
“to be an atheist is more consistent than to be an evolutionary creation believing theist,”
and i may have already pointed out to the critical “root cause” behind this evangelical ill approach. (June 7, 9:07)
———-

The problem is, nobody wants to be belittled or argued into something they don’t want to already do.
And that’s all Hovind does in his lecture series is belittle his opponents.

I’m still a very devout Christian, but I learned that this issue is not salvific, nor is it ultimately an important one. I know theistic evolutionists who are much more gentler, peaceable, loving people, who have taught me more about the mystery of God than anybody like Hovind could ever have.

comment from, Eric
=============================

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i want to give here, this time, some interesting examples of these (young earth) evangelical Anti-Bigbang sentiments/activities.
but before this, maybe we should remember again here these critical statements of some prominent evangelical thinkers:

—————
In reality though, this theory (Evolution) is nothing more than an attempt by men (whose knowledge is quite limited) to try and explain how they think we might have been created without a Creator!!

For this reason, the Big Bang theory goes hand in hand with the theory of Evolution, which is an attempt to do likewise!!

(earthage.org)
—————

so in Evangelical understanding,

if anything is being created/formed,
from simplest to more complex,
with certain mechanisms, on its own,
without touching a hand from outside,
it must definitely be understood as

= a creation without a Creator!!

i may have already pointed out the possible “root cause” of this sick perspective, in the first place, in the above writing and also tried to give the possible cure for this kind of absent perspective, from the Scripture;
i want to copy it here again, because of its fundamental
importance:

====================
because in evangelical belief system:

God does/must do everything
with His own hands,
without any mechanisms whatsoever…

but in other religious belief systems:

God does/can do everthing
without touching a hand to them
via His initial command “Be”
and then everthing starts to be,
from the simplest to the most complex,
under His full inspiration/command (Quran 17/44)
and in accordance with His pre-established plan & mechanisms…
(Quran 36/82 & 21/30 & 51/47)
(Quran 36/82 & 21/30 & 71/13-14 & 76/1 & 14/19 & …)

and maybe again for this reason in the Scripture our God may have also wondrously pointed out to us:

********
do they not watch the “mechanisms” (= malakoote)
of the heavens and the earth,
and whatever God has created,
and –thus understood that– perhaps their
predetermined-span may have neared… (Aaraaf 185)
********

yes, if the human beings closely watch and perceive
these “mechanisms” (= malakoote), perhaps they can even rightfully –to the extent He may want– predict many natural endings/spans in the heavens and on the earth

(the spans of many stars & black holes & galaxies & … in heaven)

(the spans of many resources & elements & and even all creatures –perhaps mainly due to evolutionary mechanisms in nature and in these creatures– on earth.)
(please also see here 14/19 & 6/133)

so our God may indeed be doing/creating everything in this way,
without touching a hand to them,
for example:

forming of all heavenly structures (clusters & galaxies etc.)
beginning from bang, with the simplest, and then evolving as He wishes, (21/30 & 51/47)

forming of the clouds, (30/48)
forming of the typhoons, (51/41)
forming of the earthquakes, etc. (79/6)

and, of course, forming of all life forms
beginning from water, with the simplest, and then evolving as He wishes (21/30 & 71/13-14 & 6/133 & 14/19 & 76/1 & …)

so when science discovers all or some of the wonderful mechanisms that may be serving all of these creation techniques in the heaven and on the earth,
we do not get dismayed as most of these evangelicals unfortunately do,
but on the contrary, we get even more excited and praise the wisdom of our Lord. (36/82) (21/30 & 51/47) (21/30 & 71/13-14 & 14/19 & 76/1 & …)

and we do call everyone on earth to this magnificent God, through His magnificent Word, (without using any force or imposing our Religion on anyone. 2/256)
====================

so now we may look at this interesting example of
evangelical Anti-Bigbang sentiment/activity (which may
in essence be stemming from the same kind of initial “sick perspective & feelings” which causes the
Anti-Evolution(ary Creation) sentiments/activities) a little bit more closely:

********************
..quotes The New York Times:

George Deutsch, a presidential appointee in NASA headquarters, told a Web designer working for the agency to add the word “theory” after every mention of the Big Bang, according to an e-mail message from Mr. Deutsch that another NASA employee forwarded to The Times.

The Big Bang memo came from Mr. Deutsch, a 24-year-old presidential appointee in the press office at NASA headquarters whose résumé says he was an intern in the “war room” of the 2004 Bush-Cheney re-election campaign. A 2003 journalism graduate of Texas A&M, he was also the public-affairs officer who sought more control over Dr. Hansen’s public statements.

In October 2005, Mr. Deutsch sent an e-mail message to Flint Wild, a NASA contractor working on a set of Web presentations about Einstein for middle-school students.

The message said the word “theory” needed to be added after every mention of the Big Bang.
The Big Bang is “not proven fact; it is opinion,”

Mr. Deutsch wrote, adding, “It is not NASA’s place, nor should it be to make a declaration such as this about the existence of the universe that discounts intelligent design by a creator.”

It continued: “This is more than a science issue, it is a religious issue. And I would hate to think that young people would only be getting one-half of this debate from NASA. That would mean we had failed to properly educate the very people who rely on us for factual information the most.” [emphasis added]

Deutsch has no background in science; NASA, however, is one of the nation’s preeminent scientific organizations. Thus, a political appointee with no real education in science is deciding how NASA will present science to the public —not on the basis of scientific considerations and standards, but on the basis of political and religious standards (which, in the Bush administration, often seem to be the same thing).

Curiously, this is the same George Deutsch who used his position to “suppress information about global warming” and, when criticized over this, NASA sent out a memo to all employees stating “It is not the job of
public-affairs officers to alter, filter or adjust engineering or scientific material produced by NASA’s technical staff.” Deutsch’s actions regarding changes to how the Big Bang is described cannot be described any other way but altering, filtering, and adjusting scientific material.
***********************

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to reuters,

if you please publish only my second comment, and cancel the first one, above
(they are very similar indeed)
i would deeply appreciate it. thank you.

Posted by evolutionary creation | Report as abusive

i want to talk about one critical “misconception” here that may have long been produced & provoked deliberately by anti evolutionary Evangelical masterminds to utterly demonize Science and Evolution(ary creation) issue in the eyes of people.

and that is their willingness to picture Evolution and all its discovered basic Mechanisms up to now together as a “pagan religion” and whoever believes in it
as “pagans,”
and themselves of course “Religious Heroes (army of God Incarnate!! Christ) who are courageously fighting against this Paganism in our age!!” for at least a 100 years by now.
here are some exemplary quotations:

====================
In fact, evolution is really a Pagan belief system that rejects the God of the Bible for a ‘god’ of their own making!!
(living word bible ministries)

Evolution is the dumbest and the most dangerous Religion in the history of the earth!!
(kent hovind evangelical ministries)

only it is being tampered with by atheist scientists who are blindly following the darwinian Religion!!
(bibleprobe creationism ministries)

Evolutionists are todays 21th century Pagans who are trying to disguise themselves in a scientific cloak!!
(earthage evangelical ministries)
====================

so then let us look here together into the Scripture and see & understand what is paganism and who are indeed the real pagans in the eyes of God:

***************
and once –before the foundation of the world– your Lord has taken from sons of Adam from after them their descendants and had them bear witness for themselves:
Am I not your only Lord?
they said: yes; we bear witness.
thus you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection:
we were totally “UNAWARE-ONES” (= gaafeleen) on
this –issue/event. (Aaraaf 172)

———

and definitely, we have committed to jahannam (= arid land: graves) multitudes of jinns and humans.
they have hearts, but they never want to comprehend
–Godly issues– with them;
they have eyes, but they never want to see
–Godly issues– with them;
they have ears, but they never want to hear
–Godly issues– with them;
these are like animals, and they are even more
craving –for earthly things–
these are the “UNAWARE-ONES” (= gaafeloon). (again Aaraaf 179)
***************

so the pagans (= mushrekeen) will have to come from the first group mentioned above;
these people, although they may have stood spiritually before God, before the foundation of the world,
and promised Him not to take anyone (any Angels & any Prophets & any Religious Scholars) as LORDS beside Him,
will broke their promise and unfortunately do so. (Aaraaf 172) X (Aale Imraan 80 & Tavbah 31)
and so these kind of people may have to go into eternal jahannam (= bad land: hell) in the end. (Bayyenah 6)

but the (secular & liberal etc. kind of) people who are totally disinterested in Religious/Godly Issues
from the second group mentioned above,
who may have never stood spiritually before God, before the foundation of the world, and so thus never promised Him anything,
may not have been called as “pagans” (= mushrekeen);
but they may have only been called as “UNAWARE-ONES” (= gaafeloon) in the Scripture. (Aaraaf 179)

and because that our God may have thus excluded them from the Witnessing & Promise event/issue –and left them totally as “Unaware-Ones” of this–
before the foundation of the world, (AAraaf 172)
may only send them into jahannam (= arid land: graves) in the end. (Aaraaf 179)

(** In the Scripture the positive term “jannaat” is sometimes used for (= fertile land: gardens) (Anaam 141)
and sometimes used for (= good land: paradise); (Bayyenah eight)
so the opposite term “jahannam” may have sometimes been used for (= arid land: graves) (Aaraaf 179)
and sometimes used for (bad land: hell) (Bayyenah 6)

so when we look at the Scripture carefully, in this respect, we clearly see that all the pagans (= mushrekeen)

1- do definitely believe in the existence of God in the first place. (Muminoon 84-89)

2- but they took some
–alleged– female Angels (= Laat & Uzzaa & Manaat) (Najm 19-20 & 27)
or some Prophets (Tavbah 31)
or some Religious Scholars (Tavbah 31)

as LORDS (= authorities who are talking falsely in the name of God),
although they have promised God not to take anyone else as LORDS (= authorities who are talking from themselves in the name of God) beside Him, before the foundation of the world. (Aaraaf 172) X (Aale Imraan 80 & Tavbah 31)

(** in order to take our God as our only LORD we must
–like all Prophets did– submit ourselves only to His Religious Indoctrination; (Shooraa 10)
but if we don’t do this and submit ourselves to someone else’s Religious Indoctrinations, we may have automatically taken them as false LORDS beside our God; (Shooraa 10 & Maaedah 44, 47) X (Tavbah 31)

3- these kind of people may have also been called as “kaafereen” (= disbelievers) in the Scripture,
not because they “disbelieve” in the existence of God,
but because they “disbelieve” in what He may have sent herein. (Mulk 6-10) (Aale Imraan 52-53) (Mulk 9 & Haaqqah 33)

4- so all the examples in the Scripture
regarding the creation of heaven and earth and all things in them may have been basically cited as a manifestation of the “Power” of God,
and all the –already god believing– pagans and disbelievers (Anaam 148 & Zukhruf 20 & Aaraaf 28 & Muminoon 84-89 & …) may have been invited to believe in this true God,
based on these solid proofs,
and especially the magnificent “inimitable” literary composition of the Scripture (Baqarah 164-165 & …) (Toor 30-34 & …)
and commanded to leave their pseudo-religious Sources, fabricated in the name of God, immediately & completely. (Jaatheyah 5-6 & Aaraaf 28 & …)

and when we look at Gospel, in this respect, we may clearly see that Jesus may be accusing of paganism

1- all of the old Religious Scholars who were prescribing pseudo-religious doctrines, before him,
in the name of God,
and all the ones who followed them blindly. (Matthew 15/3-9 & 23/13-28)

2- all of the new Religious Scholars who would be prescribing pseudo-religious doctrines, after him,
in the name of God,
and all the ones who would follow them blindly. (Matthew 4/10 & Mark 10/18) (Matthew 7/15 & 21-23)

3- but when it comes to secular & liberal etc. establishment of his time, he may not have even made any religious declaration/invitation to them & or even against them. (Luke 23/8-9 & Mark 12/17)
but he may have only warned his followers not to live the way they live. (Mark 8/15)
because like all other major Prophets he may have already well known the “Godly Secret” regarding the creation of these kind of many people on earth. (Luke 16/8) (Quran 7/179)
(and please also see Quran 38/62 to understand how the god believing “pagans” in the time of Prophet Muhammad (muminoon 84-89 & aaraaf 28 & …) may have seen him and his followers as “collaborators” with these kind of “bad” (= alashraar) people. (Saad 62-64 & Aaraaf 179 & Mumtahinah eight)

and in this respect, if we look again into the issue of the proofs of the –physical– existence of our God and His creation technique etc.
we may easily see these basic principles:

1- God’s physical existence will never be perceived by humans’ five senses. (Anaam 103)

2- His Angels’ physical existences will never be perceived by humans’ five senses. (Waaqiah 85)

3- God’s inspirational communication and His control/manipulation over everything in the universe will never be perceived by humans’ five senses. (Israa 44)

so to believe in these things only on faith (= bilgaybe) without requiring any (seeable & touchable etc.) evidence (Baqarah 3) may be a prerequisite upon all people within the first group mentioned above (Aaraaf 172),
because they may have already been witnessed upon God’s physical existence & and His Angels & and His inspiration before the foundation of the world
and gave Him their crucial Promise, as stated above. (Aaraaf 172)
so these kind of people can never require any (seeable & touchable etc.) evidence regarding the physical existence of God and His Angels; this would be deemed as a great sin & arrogance on their part. (Baqarah 55-56 & Furqaan 21)
because our God’s holy existence must already be clear to them in their souls;
God may already be in a “revealed” (= az-Zaaheru) state for them, in their souls. (Hadeed 3 & Aaraaf 172)

but on the other hand, the people within the second group mentioned above (Aaraaf 179) may have totally been excluded from this kind of evaluation.
because our God’s holy existence must already be obscure to them in their souls;
God may already be in a “hidden” (= al-Baatinu) state for them, in their souls. (Hadeed 3 & Aaraaf 179)
because they may have already been left as UNAWARE-ONES (= gaafeloon) of the witnessing upon God’s physical existence & and His Angels & and His Inspiration before the foundation of the world. (Aaraaf 179)
and these kind of people who have preferred to live in an animalistic -exempt- state, far from Godly issues, from the foundation of the world
may perhaps be divided into two sub-groups:

1- wild animalistic people (like some socialists & communists etc.)

2- non-wild animalistic people (like some seculars & liberals etc.)

although the first sub-group here must be a concern for all believers (Mumtahenah 9) and humanity,
the second sub-group might be dealt with respect and in good relations, as much as possible,
as long as they too deal with respect and in good relations, as much as possible, with the believers. (Mumtahenah eight)

so why then our God may have created so many people on earth from this –left totally as “UNAWARE-ONES” of His presence– second group (Aaraaf 179)?

1- maybe sometimes to physically prevent and subdue the real “pagans” (= Anti Christ army who are unfortunately acting in the name of Christ),
who may have broken their promise with God and took their Prophet –and also some of their Religious Scholars– as LORDS within/beside God, against His will and His Messenger’s will, (Matthew 4/10 & Mark 10/18) (Matthew 15/7-9),
because of their many physical atrocities against all true monotheistic believers (John 15/20-21 & Matthew 7/22-23) and other humanity, throughout the history.

2- maybe sometimes to scientifically prevent and humble the real “pagans” (= Anti Christ army who are unfortunately acting in the name of Christ),
who may have broken their promise with God and took their Prophet –and also some of their Religious Scholars–as LORDS within/beside God, against His will and His Messenger’s will, (Matthew 4/10 & Mark 10/18) (Matthew 15/7-9)
because of their many scientific atrocities against all true monotheistic –especially theistic Evolutionary & Big bang etc.– believers (John 15/20-21 & Matthew 7/22-23) and other humanity, throughout the history.

after all, do not all armies & people in heaven and on earth belong to our only God (Fatth 7 & Younus 66);
and is not our God the Most Wise of all the wise ones? (Teeyn eight)

and had not He also humbled the fathers of these (unscientific & unfriendly) Anti Christ army
mostly by these kind of people within the second group
in the previous ages, by showing them in the end:

= the earth is not in the center of the Universe,
as they had falsely claimed in the name of
God Incarnate!! Jesus…

= the sun is not rotating around the earth,
as they had falsely claimed in the name of
God Incarnate!! Jesus…

and so now perhaps in this age:

= the human beings have not been created all
separately & instantly & immune from all past and future evolution,
just like Him,

in the perfect physical Image of Him,

as they have falsely claimed in the name of
God Incarnate!! Jesus…

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THE REFUTAION OF EVOLUTION IN THE QU’RAN

Unfortunately some Muslims are not aware or who (sinful and unacceptable in this case) due to a variety of complexes are weak and apologetic, IGNORE the fact that evolution has been invalidated and kept “alive” via propaganda by secular world order machine.

Muslims who believe in evolution accept is as a scientific fact and thus approach the Qu’ran with the idea that it must confirm evolution. Thus they LOAD every word that might have an evolutionary interpretation with meanings that it CAANOT POSSIBLY BEAR.

QU’RAN, verse 71:12-14 – ….when He created you by successive stages
This verse is explaining the development of a person from
sperm, embryo , bones etc and NOT the tieing of man’s origins to another living species.

QU’RAN, verse 76:1 – ….man a period of time when he was a thing not worth mentioning.
Adam (as) was unknown to the rest of creation before having been given a Soul by God Almighty including the Angels who then were commanded to PROSTRATE before him and from that moment his superiority over the rest of creation was announced:
Qu’ran, verse 15:28-29 …When your Lord said to the angels:” I am creating a human being out of dried clay formed from fetid black mud. When i have formed him and breathed My Spirit into him, fall down in prostration in front of him!”

As one can clearly see this is NOT his supposed origin from an ape!

QU’RAN, verses 21:30-31 – …We made from water every living thing..
This verse does not state that God TOOK every living thing OUT OF WATER but MADE which as we all know every living being is made mostly by water (eg sperm,cells etc)
Saying that this verse suggests the hypothetical (evolutionist) primordial origin of the first cell is clearly FORCING a meaning which it does not have.

QU’RAN , verses 82: 6-8 …He who CREATED you and formed you and assembled you in in whatever way He willed.
This verse also refers to in light of many other verses that God created us in stages from sperm, flesh, organs , bones etc
example verses 32:7-9 He who has created all things in the best possible way. He COMMENCED the CREATION of man from clay… then seed… and then breathed His Spirit into him and gave you hearing, sight and hearts…
It is clear from these verses that again the STAGES of man’s development are being referred to here. The word COMMENCED i.e started, clearly rules out the transforming into a human from an ape scenario!

QU’RAN , verse 2:30 When your Lord said to the angels, ” I will create a vice-gerent on Earth…
This verse is believed to be suggesting that Adam (as) was not the first man on earth But.. every Muslim knows that Adam and Eve were initially in paradise/heaven prior to their expulsion to earth. This heaven or paradise was not ovbiously yet then a place of reward for believers(as Satan was there too at the time) but subsequently became so after the their expulsion to earth as per God’s Wisdom.
So it is clear also from this verse that there was no ape involved in the emerging of man who’s initial physical origin apart from the Souls was not of this earth.
eg verse 7:172-173 When the Lord took all of Adam’s descendants from his loins and made them testify that God was indeed their Lord.

QU’RAN 26:26, 44:8 verses about …Lord of your fathers , the previous peoples.
This verse is being given an evolutionary interpretation but forefathers means here the PREVIOUS GENERATIONS.
example: 2:133 …We will worship your God, the God of your FOREFATHERS, IBRAHIM, ISMAIL AND ISHAQ….

QU’RAN 71:17-18 – Allah caused you to grow from the earth, and then will return you to it and bring you out again.
This verse is in reference to our original father Adam (from whom we are descended) who was made from dust& clay. Also the elements that are present in the soil are in most part present in the Humans.
As always one has to point to the other vesres already mentioned to know that it is not evolution being described here.

QU’RAN , 28:68 Your Lord creates and chooses whatever He wills. The choice is not theirs…
Believers in evolution think that this refers to natural selection! In reality this verse is revealing whom Allah shows and chooses for the right path eg who he will announce as prophet/messenger to whichever people or humanity as a whole (as in the case of the final Prophet/Messenger Muhammad saaws).

QUR’AN , 36:67 If We willed, We could transform them from wherever they stand..
The word transform is being suggested as possibly meaning mutations but several other verses show 2:65, 7:166 that this means that as punishment Allah turned some transgressors on the one occasion from humans into apes – the otherway round from evolution!
Therefore it is utterly erroneous to derive an evolutionary conclusion from this verse or any other for that matter.

IT IS ABSOLUTELY CLEAR THAT ANY OTHER VERSE/S THAT ARE BEING SUGGESTED OR BROUGHT FORWARD AS EVIDENCE FOR EVOLUTION IN THE QU’RAN IS TOTALLY RIDICULOUS, ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF READING THE QU’RAN (it’s verses)AS A WHOLE.

LIVING BEINGS DID NOT EMERGE OR WERE CREATED FROM THE FIRST CELL THEN FROM SPECIES INTO DIFFERENT SPECIES EVENTUALLY ARRIVING AT MAN! A SOLID SCIENTIFIC FACT.

THIS IS OF COURSE NO SURPRISE AS MODERN SCIENCE ITSELF HAS PROVIDED NO CONCRETE OR GENUINE EVIDENCE BEYOND HYPOTHESES AND SPECULATION SUSTAINED BY DECEPTIVE PROPAGANDA MACHINE, FOR THE THEORY OF EVOLUTION (refer to my many previous comments above regarding the invalidty of evolution and the admissions of evolutionists themselves and how propaganda keeps it “alive.”)

THE QU’RAN WILL ALWAYS PARALLEL ESTABLISHED SCIENTIFIC FINDINGS for example the origin of the Universe (Big Bang) 21:30 mentioned in the Qu’ran 1400 years ago!

See for eg: SCIENCEISLAM.COM
which state the admissions of several non-muslim scientists to the the Divine Origin of the Qu’ran, the Last and Final Revelation/Guidance to Mankind.

==========
Unfortunately some Muslims are not aware or who (sinful and unacceptable in this case) due to a variety of complexes are weak and apologetic…
==========

really interesting!
especially in the light of some critical writings above:
(June 18, 9:06) (June 19, 8:35) (June 21, 7:28)
then according to your righteous!! evaluation

= who do not buy into this Evangelical “anti-evolutionary” biased/ignorant
pseudo-scientific & pseudo-religious propaganda,
and who do not side with these
“Godlike!! Human Beings & God Incarnate!! Jesus” advocates
–mainly based on their “anti-evolutionary” biased/ignorant tirade, as may have been pointed out many times in the above writings–
should be considered by all of us as weak and apologetic muslims & christians etc.?!
really worrisome! (Maaedah 17 & 51)
May God forgive you and awaken you from your highly duped & mistaken position, if He ever wills, brother.
(Aaraaf 30 = Anaam 112-113 & Maaedah 17-18)

==========
QU’RAN, verse 71:12-14 – ….when He created you by successive stages
This verse is explaining the development of a person from
sperm, embryo , bones etc and NOT the tieing of man’s origins to another living species.
==========

the development of a person from sperm, embryo, bones etc. may have already been explained in Quran in 23/13-14.

but in 71/13-14

———-
13- why should you not strive to reverence Allah?
14- and though He created you –all living beings– in stages (= atvaaran).
———-

as we may already know, first

= the origin of all heavenly beings, out of “bang,”
and then their progressive/evolutionary creation course,
(anbeeyaa 30 & dhaareyaat 47 & …)

and then

= the origin of all living beings, out of “water,”
and then their progressive/evolutionary creation course,
(anbeeyaa 30 & nooh 13-14 & anaam 133 & …)

may have miraculously been mentioned “together” in one verse, before this, in the Scripture. (Quran 21/30)

so these 71/13-14-15 verses perhaps may be complementary miraculous verses to that verse (21/30)
to again inform us a little bit further about the progressive “evolutionary creation path” of all living beings on earth. (21/30 & 71/13-14 & …)

==========
QU’RAN, verse 76:1 – ….man a period of time when he was a thing not worth mentioning.
Adam (as) was unknown to the rest of creation before having been given a Soul by God Almighty including the Angels who then were commanded to PROSTRATE before him and from that moment his superiority over the rest of creation was announced:

As one can clearly see this is NOT his supposed origin from an ape!
============

let us look at these verses here, together, a little bit more closely then:

———-
is it not a fact that: a very long period of time
(= heynun men addahre) has passed upon human being
when he was not a thing to be mentioned –on earth– yet? (Insaan 1)
———-

first of all, if we carefully ponder on this verse here,
especially in connection with two related verses mentioned above (21/30 & 71/13-14),
perhaps we may immediately see that:

human beings may have appeared on earth at the end of a long evolutionary creation course,
long after the appearance of first –primitive– living forms on earth, out of water. (29/20 = 21/30 & 71/13-14 & 76/1)
(and this is also what fossil record have clearly
indicated to Scientists today; (June 17, 3:58)
except some fanatic anti-evolutionary Evangelicals, of course, who are finding some “modern human foot print” in the oldest strata, every once in a while!!) (June 17, 8:56)

and also perhaps to be an honorable Creature in the eyes of Allah and thus to be a “mentioned thing” (= shayan madhkoora) in His eyes on earth, (76/1)
human beings must have first been

= fully & nicely formed human beings
that were firstly capable of “mentioning” (= fadhkuroone) Allah that He, in return, may have “mentioned” (= adhkurkum) them
then on earth. (Quran 2/152 & 76/1)

and this may exactly be the case in the –evolutionary–
appearance of first human beings (Adam and then his followers) on earth:

———-
and once, your Lord said to the Angels: now I will make a Successor (= haleefatan) on earth. (Baqarah 30)

***
“haleefatan” is used in the Scripture for Successive human beings on earth that may have come out from the descendants of some other generations before them. (Anaam 133)
so here Adam also must clearly be coming to the earth as a Successor (= haleefatan) to/from out of some a little bit “different generations” (= qavman aahareen: humanlike primates) before him. (6/133 & 2/30)
***

and Angels said: will You make therein someone who will commit evil therein and shed blood…?
Allah said: I know what you do not know now. (baqarah 30)

***
so although Angels cannot know the future (27/65),
how can they anticipate here that this new Creature will act like a wild animal (= coommit evil & shed blood) on earth;
unless, of course, they may have already witnessed that this new Creature is coming from out of some wild creatures (= humanlike primates) already here?
so he would probably act just like –wildly as– them…
but our God immediately informs them that it will not be
the case here, because there is something special with this new Creature.
so let us learn from our Lord now, what might have been so special with this new Creature?
***

and He (Allah) taught Adam all of the Names; then He presented them to the Angels and said: inform Me with the Names of these, if you are truthful.
they said: be You glorified. we have no knowledge except what You already made us know. You are the Knower, the Most-Wise.
He (Allah) said: o Adam, inform them with their Names.
and when he informed them with their Names, He (Allah) said: Did I not tell you that I know best the unseen of the heavens and the earth, and I know best what you reveal and what you conceal.
and then we said to the Angels: then fall prostrate before Adam… (Baqarah 30-34)

***
so here these “Names” may be that thing
that was so special that made Adam so –spiritually– superior before all other creatures
which may have come before him in an evolutionary way. (71/13-14 & 76/1) & (6/133 & 2/30-34)
and these “Names” perhaps may refer to the Holy “Names” of our Lord and also the ability of Language in general… Allah knows best.
***

and here perhaps we should also never forget these additional critical points, as already may have pointed out in some of the writings above:

**********
…(in the beginning), and then we made every
LIVING-BEING from WATER. (21/30)

all the CREATURES on earth and all the flying BIRDS are congregations that are –physically & genetically– SIMILAR/SAME as you. (6/38)

so why do you not give Allah the glory?
and though He created you –all living-beings– in STAGES (= atvaaran). (71/13-14)

is it not a fact that,
a very LONG PERIOD (= heynun min addahre) passed upon HUMAN-BEING when he was not a thing to be mentioned –on earth– yet? (76/1)
**********

and not just by looking at some striking genetic similarities, but more than that, some scientists recently discovered that humans’ second chromosome is actually the product of the “fusion of two chromosomes” that are found seperately in some great apes.
and this may be another miraculous Sign for us from our God about the evolutionary “common ancestry” concept between some great apes and humans.

so how our God may have described for us these “common ancestors,” with the most elegant description in His Scripture may be another important thing we should be appreciative of here:

———-
if He wants, He may make-you-vanish,
and He may make-successors after you (like He made Adam a successor, 2/30) whatever He wants,
as He built you from the descendants of a DIFFERENT CONGREGATION (= qavman aahareen: humanlike primates,
which may be common ancestors of great apes and humans) (6/133)
———-

please, also see comparison of human and great apes chromosomes as evidence of evolutionary common ancestry concept here:

(www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoEvidence.html)

** this solid evidence may be giving a real hard time for evangelical anti-evolutionary instant Common Designists!
after all “evangelical anti-evolutionary instant
Common Designer” may have made a big –hard to
ignore– mistake/gaffe here…
perhaps with the great risk of just to be “ruled out” before all the scientists,
and maybe before the Most-Wise Evolutionary True Common Designer!

**********
(and please, also do not forget here: in the eyes of our Lord all the other creatures on earth –including all those great apes of course– are not Inferior to human beings PHYSICALLY (6/38),
they may be as magnificient as human beings GENETICALLY & MORPHOLOGICALLY (6/38),
but they are only Inferior to human beings SPIRITUALLY. (2/65)
so if we think of Evolutionary Creation technique of our Lord with this perspective in mind, we can appreciate it more rightfully & humbly…
(but perhaps only except the ones who –erroneously– think that God may have created them all

separately,
instantly,
immune from all past and future evolution,
just like Him,

in the perfect physical Image of Him!!

and perhaps there may be no instant cure for this type of arrogance yet, and perhaps there may unfortunately never be for some.
**********

===============
Quran verse 38:75
Allah said: o satan, what prevented you from prostrating before what I have created here with my own “hands”?

Quran, verse 15:28-29
…When your Lord said to the angels:” I am creating a human being out of dried “clay” formed from fetid black mud. When i have formed him and breathed My Spirit into him, fall down in prostration in front of him!”
===============

in Quran there may also be many allegorical narrations
(= kulle mathalen) (17/89) beside many scientific narrations. for example:

our Lord may be telling us in Quran that
He created all universe and the human beings
with His own “hands.” (= beayden & beyadayya)
(Dhareyaat 47 & Sad 75)
but in actuality we may already know that He may have created all the universe and all living beings without touching a “hand” to them, first with His initial command “be,” (36/82)
and then all from out of bang and water in the beginning,
and then He may have again evolved both of them without touching a “hand” to them thereupon and until now. (21/30 & 51/47 & …) (21/30 & 71/13-14 & 76/1 & …)

so this “creating with His own hand” narrations should be understood in an allegorical way (17/89)
perhaps just in the sense that “creating with His own superb power & intellect.”

and so a similar allegorical approach (17/89) may perhaps be also applied to the narration of
creation of jinns from “fire” (= naren)
and human beings from “clay;” (= tiynen)

because in actuality we may already understand that jinns are not created from “fire,”
because if they were created from “fire,” we could have easily seen lots of them –there are billions of them– in our universe, but we cannot see even one of them (72/1 & 7/27),
because in actuality they may not have been created from “fire,”
just as we may not have been created from “clay,”

so we may/should understand these kind of narrations perhaps in an allegorical sense (17/89) again:

= jinns are created as powerful & destroyful as/from FIRE,
= human beings are created as weak & fragile as/from CLAY. (38/76)

==========
QU’RAN, verses 21:30-31 – …We made from water every living thing..
This verse does not state that God TOOK every living thing OUT OF WATER but MADE which as we all know every living being is made mostly by water (eg sperm,cells etc)
Saying that this verse suggests the hypothetical (evolutionist) primordial origin of the first cell is clearly FORCING a meaning which it does not have.
==========

yes, actually the starting of creation of all heavenly beings out of “bang,” in the beginning,
and then the starting of creation of all living beings
out of “water,” in the beginning,
may have thus miraculously been indicated to us in just one verse, together,
as our Lord may have also awesomely commanded to us in another verse to search and understand both of these origins together. (29/20 & 21/30)
and so many Scientists may basically be on the right track now in regard with these two origins.
may Allah show us His evolutionary creation Signs to us more clearly, if He wills, in near future, in both regards. (21/37 & 41/53) (21/30)

==========
It is clear from these verses that again the STAGES of man’s development are being referred to here. The word COMMENCED i.e started, clearly rules out the transforming into a human from an ape scenario!
==========

in 71/13-15 the word “atvaaran” (= stages) used there (and this word may have only been used once and here throughout the Quran) may have not initially been related
with man’s development in the wombs, because God does not mention there anything about development of man in the wombs before or after these verses.
and please remember here again a little bit more detailed explanation regarding this important verse
above.

yes, if I say: God started (= bedaa) the creation of “Iron” from a proton (= that is Hydrogen),
what I am saying may basically be right in the progressive/evolutionary sense that:

God started (= bedaa) the creation of “Iron” in the stars, first

with Hydrogen, and then Helium, and then Lithium….
and then “Iron” came up in the advanced stages of this progressive/evolutionary creation technique…

and this may absolutely be the same with the concept of starting the creation of Man from muddy-water… (29/20 = 21/30 & (32/7 ~ 37/11) & 71/13-14 & 76/1)

———-
say: roam the earth and find out how He started (= bedaa) the creation… (Ankaboot 20)

did those disbelievers not see that the heaven and earth used to be one solid-mass –in the beginning– and we exploded it,
and then we created every living being –from simple to complex– from water… (Anbeeyaa 30 & Nooh 13-14 & Insaan 1)
———-

===============
But.. every Muslim knows that Adam and Eve were initially in paradise/heaven prior to their expulsion to earth. This heaven or paradise was not ovbiously yet then a place of reward for believers(as Satan was there too at the time) but subsequently became so after the their expulsion to earth as per God’s Wisdom.
So it is clear also from this verse that there was no ape involved in the emerging of man who’s initial physical origin apart from the Souls was not of this earth.
===============

Adam and Eve may have been in paradise in their Souls prior to this incident. and when their body was made ready in the best Design on earth in an evolutionary creation technique (as may have been seen in the above verses, 2/30 & 6/133) they may have immediately been descended to their earthly/humanly bodies after that.

perhaps we should also remember here that
all human beings may still be being raised to heaven every night in their Souls,
and they may again be being descended to their earthly/humanly bodies the next time they wake up on earth. (Quran 39/42)

===============
This verse is in reference to our original father Adam (from whom we are descended) who was made from dust & clay. Also the elements that are present in the soil are in most part present in the Humans.
As always one has to point to the other vesres already mentioned to know that it is not evolution being described here.
===============

and perhaps this may be another credible evidence that Adam’s body must have been made out of earthly material, in the first place,
so it is very plausible that his body must have been prepared –in evolutionary stages– beginning from watery mud (= tiynen laazeben) here on earth, in the first place. (29/20) = (21/30 & 32/7 & 37/11) & (71/13-14 & 76/1) only his Soul must have been descended down from heaven after this, as explained above.

===============
but several other verses show 2:65, 7:166 that this means that as punishment Allah turned some transgressors on the one occasion from humans into apes – the otherway round from evolution!
Therefore it is utterly erroneous to derive an evolutionary conclusion from this verse or any other for that matter.
===============

Allah who turned some evil human beings (possibly together with their future descendants) in His eyes into apes (2/65)
of course then CAN also turn some good humanlike primates (together with their future descendants) in His eyes into humans,
as He may have already indicated to us that He really did. (6/133 & 2/30) what is so “difficult” about this?

and of course, He may have also indicated to us
in His Word that He really used this wonderful Evolutionary Creation technique, continuously, just from the very beginning, (21/30 & 71/13-14 & 6/133 & 76/1 & …)
as many transitional forms may also have shown us this Evolutionary superb Creative Power of our Lord,
no matter how much some fanatic anti-evolutionary Evangelicals do not want to see them for very specific ill-reasons, in the first place. (June 17, 3:58)

==========
IT IS ABSOLUTELY CLEAR THAT ANY OTHER VERSE/S THAT ARE BEING SUGGESTED OR BROUGHT FORWARD AS EVIDENCE FOR EVOLUTION IN THE QU’RAN IS TOTALLY RIDICULOUS, ESPECIALLY IN LIGHT OF READING THE QU’RAN (it’s verses)AS A WHOLE.
==========

if these kind of –scientifically backed– understanding of Verses are really from Allah
to explain and inform us about His wonderful Evolutionary Creation technique
both in heavenly scale and earthly scale
(21/30 & 71/13-15 & 51/47 & …) (21/30 & 71/13-14 & 6/133 & 76/1 & 14/19 & …)
but still we find them “ridiculous” for the sake of a Gnostic & Evangelical influenced
fanatic anti-reality & fanatic anti-evolutionary bewildered
pseudo-religious Ideology on earth, then
may God forgive us, if He ever wills so. (18/57)
(7/30 & 6/112-113 & 5/17 & …) (4/17)

Posted by Evolutionary Creation | Report as abusive

All praise is due to God Almighty alone. As usual you give giving the usual explanations “may” this “may” that.
There is no may about it. I have clearly shown how you are simply loading in accordance with your preconceptions those verses where you see evolution!

I HAVE CONCLUSIVELY DEMONSTRATED THAT THOSE (or any othets) VERSES IN NO WAY IMPLY WHAT YOU ARE READING INTO THEM, BUT YOU UNFORTUNATELY CONTINUE TO IGNORE THE FACTS OUT SICKNESSES OF THE HEART.

THERE IS NO DOUBT THAT IN DOING SO AS I HAVE SO MANY TIMES DEMONSTARTED YOU ARE GOING AGAINST THE QU’RAN AND MODERN SCIENCE WHICH:

DOES NOT PROVIDE ANY VERSES OR CONCRETE SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCES BEYOND SPECULATION AND WISHFUL-THINKING FOR EVOLUTION.

DEFINATELY NOT THE INITIAL CELL, THEN SPECIES CHANGING INTO SPECIES ARRIVING AT MAN!

This is the position which Science has arrived at. What has always been an illogical and unsubstantiated THEORY
has now firmly been disproven and invalidated with no way back from 80′s onwards.
All that is needed now is for the masses to be made aware of the disgraceful deception by going mainstream.
Unfortunately the media as we know is in the hands of those that present the world in accordance with their agenda and not how in fact it really is.

THE MYTH THAT RELIGION AND SCIENCE CAN NEVER CO-EXIST HAS CLEARLY BEEN SHOWN TO BE FALSE. THE SCIENTIFIC ESTABLISHMENT IS DOMINATED BY THOSE WHO HAVE DECEIVED PEOPLE BY SELLING THEM THIS NONSENCE VIA PROPAGANDA WHICH STARTS FROM EARLY ACADEMIA AND IS CONTINOUSLY SUSTAINED BY TELEVISION THROUGH NEWS, DOCUMENTARIES, HOLLYWOOD ETC.

To use a quote which i have used many times before and which sums up the materialist/atheist midset:

Richard Lewontin, a famous geneticist from Harvard Uni an evolutionist himself says:

‘It is not that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world,but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a prior adherencento material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and set up concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is absolute SO THAT WE DO NOT ALLOW A DIVINE FOOT IN THE DOOR.”

SO BRO, YOU CAN KEEP IGNORING AND RESISTING THE FACTS AND COMING BACK AND DOING ALL THE VERBAL ACROBATICS YOU LIKE, BUT YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO PROVE WHAT HAS BEEN INVALIDATED (mountains of admissions from devastated evolutionists themselves) BY MODERN SCIENCE ITSELF.
JUST LOOK AT ALL THE IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE FROM 11 APRIL WHICH I HAVE PRESENTED WITH A SINCERE HEART.

I HAVE CONCLUDED MY CORRESPONDENCE WITH YOU AS I TRULY BELIEVE I HAVE ACHIEVED THE FOLLOWING:

(1) Shown how evolution has been invalidated by scientific evidences from molecular(eg cell) to paleontology(fossil record) and countless admissions from evolutionists themselves.

(2) Shown how evolution is a deception sustained and kept “alive” by propaganda.

(3) How for 150 years frauds and scandals have been purportrated in order to prove a fairy tale.

(4) The undemocratic nature surrounding the theory wherby they do not allow creationism alongside darwinism to be taught in schools and leave children to make up their own minds.
The reaction to Atlas of Creation is a stunning recent example of such behaviour

(5) I have shown how a majority opinion does not neccessarily mean that something is true or fact.

(6) I have made reference to many works (books) which demonstarate in detail the world secular order and how evolution is an extremely important tool to them

(7) Finally how the Glorious Qu’ran’s verses do not support evoulution (in living things) especially the species changing into different species scenario.

ALHAMDULILLAH WA SHUKRULILLAH

as i may have already tried to indicate in many
critical writings above,
there may certainly be a strong relation/connection with this fanatic “anti-evolutionary” Evangelical movement (which started in the beginning of 1900s essentially
in US) and its fanatic worldwide Evangelical agenda
based on this pseudo-scientific & pseudo-religious tirades.
i want to expose here again this Evangelical Agenda
a little bit further, in the essence, as follows:
after totally nullifying Evolutionary Creation idea in the minds of majority of believers with their
pseudo-scientific biased/ignorant worldwide propaganda, they may then try to proclaim, worldwide, that:
all human beings have been created by God, with His own hands,

separately,
instantly,
immune from all past and future evolution,
just like Him,

in the perfect physical Image of Him,

and so Jesus will come back again very soon
as a perfect God Incarnate!! king into these perfect Godlike!! humans, in these apocalyptic end times,
and then all the world will be united as one nation under this Evangelical Agenda and their
pseudo-Scientific & pseudo-Religious Doctrine.

in this regard, here i want to relate some critical information about the possible Evangelical –Apocalyptic & Messianic– hidden agenda behind USA’s War on Terror activities in the Middle East,
from (www.crusadewatch.org):

******************************
“They are proselytizing not on behalf of the Constitution of the United States . . .
but rather on behalf of some sort of fanatical view of end times.
And they are using our army to affect that.”?
-Former Ambassador Joseph Wilson-

Last August the watchdog group, Military Religious Freedom Foundation, foiled a Pentagon plan that would have allowed the shipment of “freedom packages” to soldiers and Marines in Iraq.
The parcels were put together by the fundamentalist Christian ministry, Straight Up, and contained Bibles, proselytizing tracts in English and Arabic,
and the apocalyptic “Left Behind” computer game, in which Christian Tribulation forces convert or kill infidels— nonbelievers, Muslims and Jews.

**********
== as i may have already quoted above from a prominent Evangelical pastor,
according to this Evangelical ideology:
“anyone who does not accept that Jesus came to earth in flesh as a God Incarnate!! messenger
must be under the influence of Anti Christ,”
and so they may have two options –according to them– in these apocalyptic end times:
either immediately convert, or instantly die!
**********

On May 1 the Senate approved the promotion of Brigadier General Robert L. Caslen Jr. to Major General.
Currently the commandant of cadets at West Point, he will become the commander of the 25th Infantry Division.
He is also president of the stridently fundamentalist Officer’s Christian Fellowship, whose vision is a “spiritually transformed military, with ambassadors for Christ in uniform, empowered by the Holy Spirit”

General Caslen was promoted despite the Defense Department’s recommended disciplinary action against him and several other senior military leaders because they had “improperly endorsed and participated with a nonfederal entity while in uniform” by participating in a promotional video for the Campus Crusade For Christ’s Christian Embassy, an evangelical organization that ministers to Beltway politicians and sponsors weekly Bible studies at the Pentagon.

According to the DoD Inspector General’s report, one of the generals involved “asserted that Christian Embassy was treated as an instrumentality of the Pentagon Chaplain’s office for over 25 years,
and had effectively become a ‘quasi federal entity.’”
Arguably, he believed his participation in the video was in the line of duty.

Considering both the Pentagon’s evangelical proclivity and a 2006 Pew survey which found that of the major religious groups in America, evangelicals have the most negative views of Islam and Muslims,
the U.S. sniper who was recently caught using the Quran for target practice in the Baghdad neighborhood of Radhwaniya might be excused for thinking the book was a legitimate target upon which to perfect his craft . . .
excused for thinking he was acting in the line duty.

And is it any wonder that with evangelicals and fundamentalists at the very top of the military’s officer corps —to say nothing of their Commander in Chief— that an enlisted Marine was passing out Christian “witnessing coins” inscribed in Arabic at a checkpoint in Fallujah? One side of the coin asked, “Where will you spend eternity?” An evangelical favorite, John 3:16, was on the flip side.

Sheik Adul-Rahman al-Zubaie, a tribal leader in Fallujah who was outraged by the Marine’s proselytizing said, “This event did not happen by chance, but it was planned and done intentionally.”

While the Marine’s proselytizing is not the official policy of the predominately Christian force occupying the predominately Islamic Iraq, it was done “in the line of duty” with a wink and a nod from his chain of command. Think Abu Ghraib!

From Fort Jackson, the Army’s largest basic training facility, where trainees are encouraged to attend Campus Crusade’s weekly “God’s Basic Training” programs, to the U.S. Air Force Academy where students are pressured to attend the Crusade’s weekly “cru” (short for crusade) Bible study, American military personnel are, as Campus Crusade’s Scot Blom gloats, “government paid missionaries” when they complete their training.

As the demands of fighting a perpetual war against “radical Islam” begins to strain both the military’s resources and the country’s resolve, the Pentagon has begun outsourcing larger chunks of the war to private contractors. Predictably, our “government paid missionaries” have become more expensive and much less controllable or accountable.

The Bush administration’s favorite contractor, Blackwater, is the most powerful private army in the world. It commands thousands of mercenaries in Iraq and Afghanistan, has over a billion dollars in government contracts, and enjoys complete immunity from prosecution for its theater of operations’ conduct.

Blackwater’s founder, Erik Prince, a staunchly conservative Catholic, has also served on the board of directors of Christian Freedom International, a crusading missionary organization operating in the overwhelmingly Islamic countries of Sudan, Somalia, Afghanistan and Iraq.
Prince envisions an evangelical “end time” role for his warriors, “Everybody carries guns, just like Jeremiah rebuilding the temple in Israel— a sword in one hand and a trowel in the other.”

No one in the last decade has contributed more to end time, apocalyptic evangelism than John Hagee, a televangelist seen by millions of viewers weekly and pastor of the 19,000-member Cornerstone Church.
Hagee preaches that in order to bring about the Second Coming of Christ and the Rapture of true believers, Islam first has to be destroyed.

In a 2006 interview with National Public Radio’s Terry Gross, Hagee told her, “Those who live by the Quran have a scriptural mandate to kill Christians and Jews.”
He went on to claim that there are 200 million Muslims waiting for the chance to attack Israel and the United States.
From his pulpit, Hagee makes it clear to his congregation and the radio and television audience what they can expect from American Muslims if such an attack ever took place, “While American Muslims live in America, 82 percent are not loyal to America and are not willing to fight and defend America.”

**********
== on the contrary, those who live by the Quran may have a Scriptural mandate to respect and be in good relations with Christians and Jews, as long as they too respect and want to be in good relations with Muslims. (Ankaboot 46 & Aale Imraan 64 & Mumtahenah eight & …)
but these kind of provocative Evangelical sermons are not only basically wrong, but also may be very harmful to all Christians & Jews & Muslims’ living together in peace and security.
**********

In his book, “Jerusalem Countdown – A Warning to the World,” Hagee warns that the war between Islam and the West “is a war that Islam cannot and must not win.”

John Hagee is not just a mad evangelizing prophet. He is the mad evangelizing prophet who is courted by a war president, a hawkish presidential candidate and members of Congress from both parties. His Islamophobic bilge has trickled down from Capital Hill, through the labyrinthine corridors of the Pentagon, and into the chamber of a sniper’s rifle and the hand of a Marine guarding a checkpoint in Fallujah.

Officers in the military are expected to lead by example. Enlisted personnel are expected to follow that example. If the recent incidents at Radhwaniya and Fallujah are not just the acts of renegades, then the chain of command seems to be working the way it was designed.

an article from (www.crusadewatch.org)
june 2008

Posted by Evangelism Exposed | Report as abusive

brother joe,

i have already concluded this argument with you long before this, with this message:

====================
as i –and some other friends– may have already answered all your basic ill-based misled/misleading arguments against

= the Reality of Matter, outside of us, issue,
based on valid Quranic & Scientific proofs and perspective; (May 16, 6:37) (May 17, 10:09) …

= the factuality of Evolutionary Creation issue,
based on valid Quranic & Scientific proofs and perspective; (May 16, 6:37) (May 17, 10:09) …
(May 27, 10:21) (May 30, 1:34) …
(June 16, 9:54) (June 17, 3:58) …

= the hidden (Evangelical) Agenda behind worldwide
pretentious anti secular/masonic propaganda,
based on solid quotational proofs and perspective;
(June 8, 9:48) (June 7, 9:07) …

and as i have also already expressed before, i will not go into any further argument with you on these subjects here. you can repeat yourself (= your Gnostic & Evangelical influenced ill-based & wrongful & biased arguments) as long as you want…
i may understand your –pseudo-religious/politic– motives.
may God guide you from the darknesses (= the dark sayings of Gnostic & Evangelical influenced false mahdees) into the Light (= the bright teachings of
God-sent true Mahdee: Muhammad & Quran), if He ever wills so, in the future. (28/56) & (7/30 & 52/15-16 & 5/17 & …)
====================

so i just tried above to relate some of the rightful/informed Quranic positive statements
with regard to Evolutionary Creation concept, against some of your wrongful/biased negative assertions on this subject.

because i already know that unfortunately there may not be any instant cure for the duped/mistaken position you may be in, as our great Prophet Muhammad miraculously/awesomely may have already informed us in Quran, as follows:

===============
o Muhammed say: all praise is for Allah.
so –in the future– He will show you His –Quranic– VERSES (= Aayaatehe) and you will definitely recognize them. because your Lord is not Unaware WHAT YOU ARE/WILL BE DOING. (Naml 93) (and please also see: Hajj 75-76)
===============

********************
..and upon some of them the straying became unavoidable.
because they took the Satans (= “anti-reality” Gnostic ideologists 6/112-113 & 14/19 & 52/15-16,
and “anti-evolutionary” Evangelical ideologists 6/112-113 & 5/17-18) as Masters for themselves, but they are thinking that they are definitely Mahdees (= muhtadoon,
guided/guiding-ones) (Aaraaf 30)
********************

(** and please also see here again one critical writing above, which may be revealing/exposing this shrewd Evangelical tactic: in order to cloud/cover up the Scientific Facts and Evidences regarding the Big bang and Evolutionary Creation concepts, they always cite Materialistic view of these two great Scientific Concepts of our time, and never mention all the Theistic Scientists and Theistic view of these two great Scientific Concepts of our time, because of some very deep specific ill-reasons, explained above.)
(May 27, 10:21) (May 30, 1:34)

Posted by Evolutionary Creation | Report as abusive

i want to relate here some critical information about
the possible dangers posed by this Evangelical Ideology
against all humanity,
again from (www.crusadewatch.org):

*****************************
Almost all non-fundamentalist Christians and non-Christians identify missionary activity and Evangelism as an activity detrimental to a healthy society and spiritual growth.
Here are the most important reasons cited.

= Evangelism is religious intolerance
Evangelism is an act of religious intolerance.

= Evangelism is Satanism
Some great thinkers consider the practice of Evangelism equivalent to Satanism.

= Evangelism is Christian Fascism
“Christian fascism” or “Cristo-fascism” as synonymous with a worldview and political philosophy which are both fundamentalist Christian and fascist in nature

= Evangelism is a commercial empire
Many prominent Christians feel that Western Evangelism is a commercial empire just like any other business.
The evangelicals exploit people’s soft corner for religion and buy into their over-priced and often useless products.
Examples are Pat Robertson’s and Benny Hinn’s businesses.

= Casteism in Indian Christianity
Christianity is promoted as liberation theology with reference to castes in India.
Contrarily Church is the biggest promoter or casteism where the lines are clearly drawn between the castes.
Among Hindus the burial ground is same whereas among Christians even the burial grounds are demarked by caste.

= Deceptive Rhetoric of Moral Values
Most of the missionaries and Christian groups claim that Christianity and white race have the highest moral values whereas all other religions and cultures are corrupt

= Evangelism is revengeful act of Sex abuse victims
Sex abuse victims tend to become abusers themselves and, if sexually abused. Research has shown that religious fundamentalists are more likely to come from families where sexual abuse has occurred. We know about the widespread abuse by Catholic priests. Sixty percent (60%) of Evangelical pastors, most of whom are married, have a problem with pornography

= Christianity promotes Racism
Racism is rooted in the founding Christian belief that all non-Christians were servants/soldiers of Satan, the relentless and cunning enemy of the Christian god and all morality (1 Cor. 10:20-21, Gal. 4:8-9, John 8:44 for examples).
Christians considered pagans who converted to be morally cleansed and purified. Christians called pagans and Jews who rejected conversion obstinate, atheists, and an infection in the world, and treated them as a constant threat to Christian purity.

= Church Fundamentalism is against Science
USA, which produced the world’s top inventions and scientists is under siege due to Christian fundamentalism. These fundamentalists are opposed to scientific development because most of the scientific findings contradict Bible.
Example: Bible states that Sun rotates around Earth and Earth is flat. Galileo who questioned this theory was put under house arrest and denied medical services he request.

***************
== nowhere in Bible have i read anything about “Earth being flat” or “Sun rotating around Earth.”
so perhaps these may have been some Evangelical Scholars’ wrongful interpretations and/or additions
to Biblical verses in those days.
***************

American Christian fundamentalists are against research and science on Evolution as they believe that Adam & Eve were created much recently, just on the 6th day of the creation.

***************
== there may be some other “much deeper reasons” in addition to these ones, as i tried to indicate in many writings above, behind their Anti Evolutionary tirade. (June 17, 3:58)
***************

= Witchcraft, exorcism and Child abuse
Many evangelical churches are known to promote irrational and uncivillized acts such as witchcraft and exorcism which often involve child abuse.
In Europe and Africa such fundamentalist churches are growing exponentially

= Evangelism is a Pseudo-Religious activity
The pseudo-religionist (evangelical), loves his theory above everything else. It is his baby. He raises it up, applauds it, and makes it the standard by which everything else should be measured or interpreted.
It is his idol. He tries to save it from refutation at all costs.

= Missions is Hate Crime
Increasingly world is accepting evangelical missions as an expression of hate crime.

= Corrupted and evil expression of Christianity
Most of the true Christian denomonations are not involved in missions and evangelism. They strongly argue that missions is the corrupted and evil expression of true Christianity.

= Evangelism is Religious Terrorism
What is religious terrorism? Religious terrorists seek to use violence to further what they see as divinely commanded purposes, often targeting broad categories of foes in an attempt to bring about sweeping changes.

= Warfare not a spiritual experience
“Evangelism is a warfare, it is not a spiritual experience” is what evangelicals openly admit.
Most of their literature talks about ‘Winning souls and counting numbers, strategies etc..’
In their planning they even use the military terminology such as ‘blasting, bombarding, targets under control, targeted areas, preparing the warriors…’
Many true Christians call it ‘Bastardization of Christianity’.

= Evangelism is a tool for terrorism
“Either convert and fight against India or DIE” is the message echoing across the 7 states (called 7 sisters) of North-east India. Many articles indicating the same are listed in this section.

= Clash of Civilization
Evangelism/Proselytism is due to the fundamentally an expression of clash of civilization. Since time immemorial western civilization has been trying to convert or annihilate whoever is different from them. The core principle is ‘whoever is not like us is disposable’.

= Evangelism is a tool for territorial expansion
Jomo Kenyatta, Kenya’s first elected Prime Minister (1963-1964) and President (1964-1978) said: “When the missionaries arrived, the Africans had the land and the missionaries had the Bible. They taught us to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.”

= Churches are against population control
Evangelism produces more Christians.
Church is a strong opponent of any form of Birth control which produced many orphans and malnutritioned children.

= Religious Conversion plays havoc in Women’s lives
In Christianity a women is inferior to man. Many women who enjoyed complete freedom and respect in their native religion become second class members in their own homes and family.

In 1828, a British clergyman boasted, “Whenever the missionary places his standards among the savage tribes, their dependence on the Colony is increased and every convert becomes the friend of Government.”

= Evangelism causes Civil Wars
Every country in the world is facing an internal war i.e., Fundamentalist Christians vs. others.
This is not the case with other religious or ethnic groups. The prime reason is intolerance.
A fundamentalist evangelical Christian cannot accept or respect anything non-christian and expresses his intolerance in some form or other. Many articles including some prominent ones written by rationalists are presented in this section.

= Evangelism: A Political game for hegemony
Western Church was never a religious or spiritual organization. Though it may start or sound as one but the ultimate motive is power and control of Governments..
Vijay Prasad in Eastward Evangelical Soldiers identifies American Evangelism as US foreign policy for global hegemony.

= Religious Conversion: Crime against Humanity
Religious conversion is threatening individuals, families, communities and the nations. Coercive evangelical religious conversion of Eastern religions contains a threat to spiritual tradition and the freedom of choice. If carried unchecked, coercive religious conversion would threaten the very existence of many Asian nations as a nation. Read Coercive Religious Conversion: A Crime against Humanity

= Evangelism develops anti-social syndrome
According to a famous christian psychriatist (name withheld) “Some Christians are actually worse off after being “saved” than before. At least before they were “saved,” they had a natural respect for, or fear of, ultimate justice, an inborn sense that somehow we all reap what we sow. After being “saved,” that’s gone for the insincere “Christian.”
For him or her, belief in Jesus amounts to a
“get-out-of-Hell-free” card, a sort of spiritual “diplomatic immunity.” And because the natural and necessary fear of consequences has been unwisely removed from his life, he falls that much more easily to the temptations of his lower nature. ”

= Crusades is the act of an addicted
Liberal Christians call Christian fundamentalism, an addiction similar to gambling and alcoholism.
Acclaimed author Carolyn Baker in article The religious right: Pushing a deadly addiction explores the addictive features of Evangelism which ultimately result not in spiritual well being but the worst spiritual abuse.

= Promotes Christian Fanaticism
Promotes hatred, wars and Genocide
Many evangelical leaders initiated and promoted war against heathen so that the field is open to harvest the souls. Many of the evangelical leaders and missionaries are War Criminals.

= Imperialism: Destroy the fundamental ideals
Time and again world’s renowned scholars have clearly proved evangelism as an imperialistic activity. But because they operate in the spiritual realm, they continue to enjoy a fuzzy kind of permission to conduct a kind of business that is largely impossible in other less ethereal spheres of life.

(www.crusadewatch.org)
****************************

Posted by Evangelism Exposed | Report as abusive

i want to relate here again some more critical information about the deeply disturbing “negative effect” of Evangelism on USA’s cultural &
political life,
and possibly then also on its worldwide
cultural & political agenda,
this time from US’ popular channel ABC News:

********************
Despite his call for the U.S. to win the “hearts and minds of the Islamic world,”
Sen. John McCain recruited the support of an
Evangelical minister who describes
Islam as “anti-Christ,”
and Mohammed as “the mouthpiece of a conspiracy of spiritual evil.”

********************
== as i already quoted above from another prominent Evangelical pastor,
according to this Evangelical ideology:
“anyone who does not accept that Jesus has been sent to
–instantly created– Godlike!! humans on earth in flesh as a God Incarnate!! human messenger
must definitely be under the influence of Anti Christ.”

so of course, Prophet Muhammad who may have miraculously informed us, via glorious Quran, about the wonderful Evolutionary Creation technique of our Lord (21/30 & 71/13-14 & 6/133 & 76/1 & …) and thus deeply undermine this wrongful Evangelical arrogant and delusional thinking (5/17 & 9/31) may/will thus be harshly demonized by these fanatic Evangelical pastors. (9/31-32)
but please see here again some critical writings above,
to comprehend who might be
the real “Anti Christ” (= MESSIAH DAJJAAL)
and the real “Mouthpiece of a conspiracy of Spiritual Evil” in the eyes of God and His honorable Servants Jesus and Muhammad (pbuh). (June 7, 9:07)
********************

Late Thursday McCain announced he was rejecting Pastor Rod Parsley’s endorsement he had once so eagerly sought.

McCain sought the support of Pastor Parsley of the World Harvest Church of Columbus, Ohio at a critical time in his campaign in February, when former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee was continuing to draw substantial support from the Christian right.

At a campaign appearance in Cincinnati, McCain introduced Parsley as “one of the truly great leaders in America, a moral compass, a spiritual guide.”

Campaign aides positioned Parsley right behind McCain for photographers, apparently unconcerned about Parsley’s well-established denunciations of the Islamic faith in a book “Silent No More” and on DVDs of sermons about Islam.

“Islam is an anti-Christ religion that intends through violence to conquer the world,” Parsley says on the DVDs reviewed by ABC News.

********************
== Islam may in fact be a strongly pro-Christ religion, which is describing Jesus as a true Christ and one of the highest-ranking Servants of God. (Quran 3/45)
and all kinds of violence/coercion are strictly forbidden in Islam. (Quran 2/256)
********************

Mother Jones first reported Parsley’s anti-Muslim views in an article March 12, but McCain took no steps to dissociate himself from Parsley until after ABC News broadcast some of Parsley’s sermons on “Good Morning America” Thursday. [Read Mother Jones' article.]

“America was founded with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed,” Parsley says,
“and I believe Sept. 11, 2001 was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore.”

********************
== Islam is not a false religion, in the first place;
but on the contrary, it may absolutely be a True Religion that is already prophesied in Bible. (Genesis 21/12-13)
and it will stay as a great Nation (= Religion) as our Lord may have already clearly pointed it out both in Bible and Quran. (Genesis 21/13 & Quran 2/125-129)
and many righteous (non-Fundamentalist & non-Evangelical) Christians may have no problem with Islam at all; they may already recognize and respect it.
*******************

Parsley’s views and his connection to the McCain campaign are now beginning to show up on Arab Web sites and newspapers.

Al Moheet, a regional Arabic Web site operating in Egypt, carries the story with a picture of McCain and the headline: “McCain’s Spiritual Adviser Calls for the Destruction of Islam.”

“If there is a McCain presidency, he will start with a serious handicap in the Arab world,” said former CIA intelligence officer John Kiriakou.
“And the handicap is that it is already assumed in Muslim countries that they will not get a fair shake from a McCain administration,” said Kiriakou.

In a statement to ABC News about Parsley’s comments, McCain’s campaign said the senator “obviously strongly rejects such statements.”
The campaign did not answer the question of whether it was aware of Parsley’s widely publicized statements prior to seeking his endorsement in February.

*******************
== who could be totally “unaware” of these prominent Evangelical scholars’ such sermons & videos & audios that is broadcast to millions of people nationwide and also worldwide?
*******************

Posted by Evangelism Exposed | Report as abusive

to see one last crucial writing/information about the close relation between this “Evangelical World Domination” ideology,
and this “Jesus’ (as God’s Partner!!) Second Coming into the World” issue,
please visit:

web site: Science And Religion News
under topic: First Beckham…PseudoScience Hits the US
comment by “Evangelism Exposed” 4:49 A.M.

http://sciencereligionnews.blogspot.com/ 2007/07/first-beckham-and-now-harun-yayh a.html

Posted by Evangelism Exposed | Report as abusive

and when this Evangelical anti-evolutionary Creationism ideology has failed to produce the much “desired effects” on majority of US people,
after a long battle (mainly beginning in 1925 with Scopes Trial) in USA,
some of them recently repackaged themselves and came with Evangelical anti-evolutionary Intelligent Design ideology.
and they claimed that this has nothing to do with Evangelical anti-evolutionary Creationism,
but it is based on pure logic & reason & Science.
so here i want to give some valuable clues about the real identities of these kind of some “real” Scientists which have raised some hard-core objections against Evolution(ary Creation) idea on behalf of yet this “unidentified” Intelligent Designer;

and we may already know how skillful these Evangelicals can be in political & cultural etc. arenas
in packaging themselves in what they really are not:

= they are “liberators” (not Invaders)
= they are “givers” (not Takers oil)
= they are “warriors of freedom” (not Crusaders of Evangelism)…

and so now it shouldn’t be much of a surprise that
= they are absolutely “intelligent designists” (not Evangelical Creationists)…

*************************
New York Times:

The Discovery (Intelligent Design) Institute says 128 signers –against Evolution(ary Creation) concept– hold degrees in the biological sciences and 26 in biochemistry. That leaves more than 350 nonbiologists, including Dr. Tour, Dr. Picard and Dr. Skell.

Of the 128 biologists who signed, few conduct research that would directly address the question of what shaped the history of life.

Of the signers who are evangelical Christians, most defend their doubts on scientific grounds but also say that evolution runs against their religious beliefs.

———-
== so we should never harbor any doubts, from the beginning, about the credibility & sincerity of the objections of many of these “real” Scientists here.
because they are first absolutely Scientists, then also by coincidence absolutely Evangelicals!

and again although the hard-core main financial backers of this anti evolutionary Intelligent Design Institute
are all well known rich Evangelical elite in USA,
we should again not let Satan interfere with our Angelic reception here!
———-

Several said that their doubts began when they increased their involvement with Christian churches.
Some said they read the Bible literally and doubt not only evolution but also findings of geology and cosmology that show the universe and the earth to be billions of years old.

———-
== these are still those same absolutely “real” Scientists!
———-

Scott R. Fulton, a professor of mathematics and computer science at Clarkson University in Potsdam, N.Y., who signed the petition, said that the argument for intelligent design was very interesting and promising.
He said he thought his religious belief was not particularly relevant in how he judged intelligent design. “It probably influences in the sense in that it makes me very interested in the questions,” he said. “When I see scientific evidence that points to God, I find that encouraging.”

———-
== is not Evolution(ary Creation) concept –progressing under the control of God within basic inspirational mechanisms like mutations & natural selection & selective pressure etc.– a highly Intelligent Plan & Evidence that has already pointed to God for so many people –Christians & Muslims & Jews & Others– on earth? so why push the “unidentified” Intelligent Designer here?
does he really have any other mechanisms to work with,
or is he a pure Magician who hates all evolutionary mechanisms and worked “evangelical wonders” only in 6 normal days, just 6000 years ago?

(and please see here again one critical writing above, which may be revealing to us the real “Evolutionary Intelligent Designer” who has been working “real wonders” until now, via His pre-established heavenly and earthly natural laws & evolutionary mechanisms proggressively.
Quran 7/185 & 41/11 & 30/48 & 35/43 & …
Quran 21/30 & 71/13-14 & 6/133 & 76/1 & 14/19 & …
(June 17, 3:58)
———-

Roger J. Lien, a professor of poultry science at Auburn, said he received a copy of the petition from Christian friends.
“I stuck my name on it,” he said. “Basically, it states what I believe.”

Another signer is Dr. Gregory J. Brewer, a professor of cell biology at the Southern Illinois University medical school. Like other skeptics, he readily accepts what he calls “microevolution,” the ability of species to adapt to changing conditions in their environment. But he holds to the opinion that science has not convincingly shown that one species can evolve into another.

———-
== our almighty God who is showing us this “Micro Evolution,” as it is occurring in front of our eyes,
via His –in our belief– inspirationally controlled natural laws & evolutionary mechanisms (like mutations & selective pressure & natural selection etc.) CAN of course do the “Macro Evolution” then with the same laws & mechanisms, with the same ease.
and He may have already informed us in His wondrous Word that He has done it many times & will be doing it, whenever He wants, backwards or forwards. (2/65 X 6/133) (29/20 = 21/30 & 71/13-14 & 6/133 & 76/1 & 14/19)
and many Scientific evidences –transitional forms– may also be strongly supporting this Religious information.
if we are not willing to see, however, these credible evidences for some specific “ill-reasons,” in the first place, (June 7, 9:07)
then neither God nor Science may also NOT be willing to convince us anytime soon. (29/20 = 21/30 & 71/13-14 & 6/133 = 6/109-110)
———-

“I think there’s a lot of problems with (heavenly or earthly) evolutionary dogma,” said Dr. Brewer, who also does not accept the scientific consensus that the universe is billions of years old.
“Scientifically, I think there are other possibilities, one of which would be intelligent design. Based on faith, I do believe in the creation account.”

———-
== you may perhaps unfortunately be believing, mr. evangelical priest/doctor, in the “literal evangelical interpretation” of that (heavenly or earthly) creation account,
and i think there may perhaps be a lot of problems with that Evangelical anti-evolutionary “Intelligent Design” dogma, in the first place!
———-

(from The New York Times, 2006)
*******************************

== and other than these there may of course be some non-evangelical “intelligent designists” in this movement among these fundamentalist evangelicals,
and for now they may be claiming that they accept the billions of years old universe and life beginning about 3.5 billion years ago on earth with simple organisms then to complex in general until now.
but they also claim that mutations & natural selection etc. cannot do the evolutionary job, there must be an “Intelligent Intervention” beyond & above this, at many points.

but as i tried to explain in one of the critical writings above (June 17, 3:58)
there may be a major flaw in this approach, because:
our almighty God of course CAN do the Evolutionary Creation job, whenever He wills so, both in “Micro” and “Macro” scale with these mechanisms, from simple to complex, in stages with ease, in the first place. (Quran 71/13-14 & 14/19 & 11/44 & …)
because all mutations –whether they are harmful or beneficial– and then natural selection are already intentional “Intelligent Interventions” from our God for us,
but because God’s special manipulation/control over all of these mutations and then natural selection processes can never be observed by our five senses (17/44 & 41/11 & 11/44 & …) these are only called random & spontaneous etc. processes in Scientific (which is based only what we can perceive with our five senses) standards. so in short, if you have any other mechanisms now to propose regarding the Evolutionary Creation, please do so,
but if not never claim that God cannot do the job with these mechanisms, because He really CAN, whenever He wills so. (36/82 = 21/30 & 71/13-14 & 14/19 & 76/1 & …) (17/44 & 11/44 & …)

and so these intelligent designists’ basic claim that:
“yes, Micro evolution can occur through random & spontaneous mutations and then natural selection etc.
but Macro evolution needs a “special intervention”
may basically be a Nonsensical/Flawed approach in the first place in our theological view….

because they have no concept of God’s continous “Inspirational Manipulation/Control” over all universe and all the things
and all the –micro and macro– processes & changes therein, at every time. (Quran 17/44 & 41/11 & …) (71/13-14 & 14/19…)

nothing is random or spontaneous etc. for us,
but Micro and Macro evolution are both equally the similar inspirational “Intelligent Creative Acts” of our Almighty God for us;
they are only random or/and spontaneous processes within Scientific terms (because it is only based on what we can perceive with our five senses),
but inspirational or/and creative processes within Religious terms (because it is based on what we can perceive with our five senses, and also what we cannot perceive with our five senses above and on top of this).

if we can understand and accept this highly important basic perspective –taught to us by our almighty God– we may have no problem with the compatibility issue of Science and Religion anymore.
we can accept then science as Science, and religion as Religion.
and we never confuse or try to mix them up into each other for the sake of an Evangelical “unintelligent
undesign” Crusader agenda.

Posted by Intelligent Disguise! | Report as abusive

here i want to relate some “eye opening” comments from dr. Francisco Ayala (a respected member of National Academy of Sciences, US) against this –evangelical based anti evolutionary– Intelligent Design movement in US:

====================
New York Times:

Dr. Ayala, who is 74, was born in Madrid and studied theology at the Pontifical Faculty of San Esteban in Salamanca before coming to the United States in 1961, for graduate study in genetics at Columbia.
From there he went to Rockefeller University, then Davis and then to Irvine. He became a United States citizen in 1971. He and his wife, an ecologist who works to encourage conservation efforts by resorts in tropical areas, have two grown sons.

Dr. Ayala said he remained surprised at how many Americans believe the theory of evolution is contrary to belief in God, or that the theory is erroneous or even fraudulent. In fact, there is no credible scientific challenge to it as an explanation for the complexity and diversity of life on earth.

Sometimes, he says, people come to his talks determined to challenge him, usually by citing familiar
-intelligent design- creationist arguments
—that a body part like the bacterial tail, or flagellum, is too complex to have arisen through evolution, or that scientists lied when they demonstrated that moths in England evolved to be darker as the Industrial Revolution covered their native trees with soot.

But he said he had yet to encounter a challenge he could not meet. When people ask about the bacterial flagellum, for example, “I bring up that by now it has been worked out in great detail how the basic parts of the bacterial flagellum have evolved independently and exist independently,” he said.

And he dismisses the argument that it is only fair to teach both sides of the evolution/creationism controversy. “We don’t teach alchemy along with chemistry,” he said. “We don’t teach witchcraft along with medicine. We don’t teach astrology with astronomy.”

———-
== the ones who understand and accept that initial basic perspective –cited in the end of above writing (July 30, 10:56)– regarding this Evolution & Creation teaching issue have no such problems or requests in this respect;
because every Science class is already a Creation class for them in their souls.
and because Science must be the common ground for all of us –theist & atheist & agnostic etc.– no one should request that their specific creation or uncreation philosopy must be taught alongside with Science. and personally i would never want to be imposed or implied with any evangelical or hindu or buddhist or atheist etc. specific creation or uncreation philosopy in Science classes,
let us investigate and learn –as much as possible– all the proggressive mechanisms in Nature and all its workings and then let us choose to believe who may be
behind it –christian God or islamic Allah or hindu Gods or Nature etc.– in our souls individually.
and let us freely present our related evidences, if there is any, in this issue out of Science classes to each other, anytime we want, in appropriate platforms.
but if we believe that there is no proggressive
mechanisms in Nature and no workings, but everything is done instantly by the “hands” of a magician God in just 6 days and 6000 years ago, then we should not come to Science classes at all, because there is no Science for us then, in the first place! we should just sit and make our probability/chance calculations and then boast in our souls: no Big bang creation, no Evolution(ary Creation), long live the “hands” of our skillful instantly-creative evangelical magician Father!
———-

He said he was saddened when he saw the embrace of evolution identified with, as he put it, “explicit atheism,” as in the books of the evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins or other writers on science and faith.

———-
== the reason why many evangelicals always are deliberately trying to associate Evolution idea only with “atheism” and some “atheist scientists”
and they never want to mention “theism” and many “theistic scientists” who basically support this great Scientific concept of our time
may perhaps be found in some of the above critical writings: (June 7, 9:07) (June 21, 7:28)
———-

Neither the existence nor nonexistence of God is susceptible to scientific proof, Dr. Ayala said, and equating science with the abandonment of religion “fits the prejudices” of advocates of intelligent design and other creationist ideas.

“Science and religion concern nonoverlapping realms of knowledge,” he writes in the new book. “It is only when assertions are made beyond their legitimate boundaries that evolutionary theory and religious belief appear to be antithetical.”

It is important that Dr. Ayala “is not a religion-basher,” Dr. Scott said, “because -evangelical-creationists always showcase the religion-bashers in science as if they speak for all scientists. They clearly do not speak for Francisco and many others.”

from New York Times, April 2008
*******************************

Posted by evangelical Intelligent Disguise! | Report as abusive

i want to relate here some more “eye opening” comments from another much respected theistic Scholar
regarding a highly-shrewd recent Evangelical
anti-evolutionary propaganda film in US.

====================
By Kenneth R. Miller
a biology professor at Brown University
May 8, 2008

AMERICAN science is in trouble, and if you wonder why, just go to the movies. Popular culture is gradually turning against science, and Ben Stein’s new movie, “Expelled,” is helping to push it along.

“Intelligent Design,” the relabeled, repackaged form of American creationism, has always had a problem. It just can’t seem to produce any evidence.
To scientists, the reasons for this are obvious.
To conservative Washington Post columnist Charles Krauthammer, Intelligent Design is nothing more than a “phony theory.” No data, no science, no experiments, just an attempt to sneak a narrow set of -evangelical- religious views into US classrooms.

Advocates of Intelligent Design needed a story to explain why the idea has been a nonstarter within the scientific community, and Ben Stein has given it to them. The story line is that Intelligent Design advocates are persecuted and suppressed.
“Expelled” tells of this terrible campaign against free expression, and mocks the pretensions of the
closed-minded scientific elite supposedly behind it.

———-
== if you visit many Evangelical (young or old earth together) fanatic anti-evolutionary web sites, we may see the advertisement of this film all over their sites,
and if we take a few more minutes to read their ideology, we may also see their real “persecuting and suppressive” attitudes against all other religionists & scientists who do not share their Evangelical views,
and “free expression” may not be an option there, not at all!

but on the contrary, they have all the opportunities to present their Evangelical “anti-evolutionary” instant Creation model freely, in every platform they may want
in US,
but only not in SCIENCE classes; because it is absolutely UN-SCIENCTIFIC! (June 30, 10:56)
———-

There are many things wrong with this movie. One example: Viewers are told that Dr. Richard Sternberg lost his job at the Smithsonian Institution because he edited a paper favorable to Intelligent Design. Wrong.
Sternberg wasn’t even employed by the Smithsonian (he had no job to lose), and had resigned as journal editor six months before the paper was published. In fact, the irony is that neither Steinberg nor any of the other people featured as martyrs in “Expelled” lost jobs as a result of their advocacy of Intelligent Design, while many others who supported evolution have.
In 2007, Chris Comer, the director of science education for Texas schools, was fired for having done nothing more than forwarding an e-mail announcing a pro-evolution seminar.

———-
== here is the basics of these Evangelical Crusaders’ expansion manual:

1- act as innocent as “lambs” when you do not have power.
2- be as shrewd as “foxes” when you get equal power.
3- act as wild as “tigers” when you do get the power.
———-

The movie also uses interviews with avowed atheists like Richard Dawkins, author of “The God Delusion,” to argue that scientific establishment is vehemently anti-God. Never mind that 40 percent of the members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science profess belief in a personal God. Stein, avoiding these 50,000 people, tells viewers that “Darwinists” don’t allow scientists to even think of God.

———-
== as i already pointed out above, according to hidden Evangelical ideology: anyone who do not accept that
“Jesus has come as a perfect God Incarnate!! human-being to –instantly & anti evolutionarily created– perfect Godlike!! human-beings” must definitely be under the influence of Anti Christ, in the first place. (June 18, 9:06)
so to put these kind of all theistic Scientists and Believers who basically believe in and support Evolutionary Creation concept (and by doing this they are –intentionally or unintentionally– undermining this “Man being made –instantly & anti evolutionarily– in the Image of God” literal teaching of Evangelism June 7, 9:07)
in the same camp with “Anti God & Anti Christ” atheists and never mention them as “believers” may just fit well with their hidden Evangelical Crusader Agenda! (please in this regard, see some critical writings above:
(June 7, 9:07 & June 18, 9:06)
———-

Puzzled, the editors of Scientific American asked Mark Mathis, the film’s co-producer, why he and Stein didn’t interview such people, like Francis Collins (head of the Human Genome Project), Francisco Ayala, or myself. Mathis cited me by name, saying “Ken Miller would have confused the film unnecessarily.”
In other words, showing a scientist who accepts both God and evolution would have confused their story line.

———-
== yes, it would absolutely confuse their Evangelical indoctrination, “unnecessarily!”
———-

Despite these falsehoods, by far the film’s most outlandish misrepresentation is its linkage of Darwin with the Holocaust. A concentration camp tour guide tells Stein that the Nazis were practicing “Darwinism,” and that’s that.
Never mind those belt buckles proclaiming Gott mit uns (God is with us),
the toxic anti-Semitism of Martin Luther,
the ghettoes and murderous pogroms in Christian Europe centuries before Darwin’s birth.
No matter. It’s all the fault of evolution.

———-
== to understand the possible real heavenly answer
–taught to us by our almighty God– against this
shrewd Evangelical anti-evolutionary propaganda tool,
please see one critical writing above: (June 9, 12:38)
———-

Why is all this nonsense a threat to science?
The reason is Stein’s libelous conclusion that science is simply evil. In an April 21 interview on the Trinity Broadcast Network, Stein called the Nazi murder of children “horrifying beyond words.” Indeed.
But what led to such horrors? Stein explained: “that’s where science in my opinion, this is just an opinion, that’s where science leads you.
Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place. Science leads you to killing people.”

———-
== and also the fact that especially some well-known jewish persons being used in this Evangelical anti-evolutionary propaganda film and holocaust being used as a block against Evolution(ary Creation) idea
giving me the impression that perhaps these Evangelical Crusaders thus especially want to add some more jewish people in their Anti Christ (= MESSIAH DAJJAAL) army by this film.

because God Incarnate!! Jesus will come down to Jerusalem among jewish people in near future, to establish the “Evangelical World Order” for eternity,
from there and also US,
according to these fanatic anti-evolutionary Evangelical Crusaders,
so to make the preparations beforehand among the jews must be “vital” for them now!
———-

According to Stein, science leads you to “killing people.”
Not to cures and vaccines, not to a deeper understanding of nature, not to wonders like computers and cellphones, and certainly not to a better life. Nope.
Science is murder.

“Expelled” is a shoddy piece of propaganda that props up the failures of Intelligent Design by playing the victim card. It deceives its audiences, slanders the scientific community, and contributes mightily to a climate of hostility to science itself.
Stein is doing nothing less than helping turn a generation of American youth away from science. If we actually come to believe that science leads to murder, then we deserve to lose world leadership in science.
In that sense, the word “expelled” may have a different and more tragic connotation for our country than Stein intended.

Kenneth R. Miller,
a biology professor at Brown University,
is author of “Only a Theory – Evolution and the Battle for America’s Soul,”
which will be published next month.
=====================================

Posted by evangelical Intelligent Disguise! | Report as abusive

BEWARE OF HARUN YAHYA – AN IDOLATOR
He is very evil !!! Don’t read his books !!
WATCH THIS VIDEO ABOUT HIM :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-vdG6MdX V0

Posted by Fraz | Report as abusive

HE IS NOT PROMOTING THE REAL ISLAM !!!!!

Posted by Fraz | Report as abusive

RICHARD DAWKINS SEEMS TO HAVE CAUGHT THE HOOK!
Harun Yahya’s including a picture of a model insect alongside a fossil caddis fly in his Atlas of Creation was an excellent thing from his point of view. The insect, a model of which appears in the Atlas, is in any case still living today. Living specimens are identical in appearance to the model. There are pictures of the living insect all over the internet. There is also no such picture in other editions of the book, and original pictures of the insect are provided instead. Dawkins seized in this as an error and published it on his web site. In the wake of that, various newspapers and websites that imagined this to be a great discovery immediately carried the report on Dawkins’ web site. The fact is, however, that contrary to what Dawkins thinks, the issue is not one that works against Harun Yahya. The Atlas of Creation was about how an insect living today, pictures of which can be obtained from a great many sites on the internet, has never changed over the last 25 million years. THANKS TO DAWKINS, MILLIONS OF PEOPLE HAVE NOW VISITED THE ATLAS OF CREATION WEB SITE, AND HAVE LEARNED HOW THIS ORGANISM HAS REMAINED UNCHANGED FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS.

Posted by FrederickK | Report as abusive

If you are right and evolution is undeniable? Then what is this rush and fuss about a colorful book? If evolution is a fact, then why children can’t be taught creation alongside evolution at schools? Because you know and we all know that once a person is well educated, it is impossible for him/her to believe in evolution. Just as we saw in the example of Francis Collins. Genome Project was one of the front runners of the scientific world of this decade. As Francis Collins stated; “it is impossible for DNA to have come into being by chance, and now I believe.” He is no more an atheist and evolutionist. Not only scientific world, majority of the people in the world see that evolution has been a great deceit in the history of science.

If evolution was a fact then why did the evolutionists resort to frauds for decades to prove the theory? They suggested that a skull discovered in 1912 bear Piltdown in England belonged to an “ape-man.” This fossil, the skull of which exhibited human features and the jaw those of an orang utan, was displayed in the famous British Museum for 40 years. However, it was finally exposed as a forgery in 1953. The fossil had been produced by evolutionists who combined a human skull and an orangutan jaw and used chemicals to give it an aged appearance. And this was only one of them. Why did they say for years that coelacanth was the intermediate form to emerge onto dry land although the fish is a living species of deep water fish?

Posted by garry doyler | Report as abusive

There are some 100 million fossils belonging to 250,000 different species have been unearthed, not even one supports Darwinism. Each one of the fossils discovered, belongs to fully formed and flawless organisms. Were evolutionists’ claims true, a large part out of so many fossils should belong to “intermediate life forms,” though not a single one actually does.

Posted by Kayleb M. | Report as abusive

yes there are no transitional forms, yes there are no useful mutations, yes there is a big difference between the dna of man and apes. the reason why evoluotion is accepted by people in the west is that they read the bible and find things which contradicts with science so people are hesitant to believe that this is god’s word. i invite you to read about islam ad the quran you will find that both evoluotion and christianity are not the truth and that the only truth is islam. come to where you can find peace that people are looking to find allover the world.

Posted by hytham | Report as abusive

Mr. Oktar proved Collapse of Evolution Theory with 100 million fossils. If you have any transitional fossil or form, you should bring and show this fossils to everybody…
God has not need to evolution for creation!