The Mormon faith — or Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as it is officially called — has a “fundamental” PR problem.
It may have renounced polygamy over a century ago but the breakaway sects which continue to practice plural marriage are the ones that often catch the public eye, leading to the popular misconception that all Mormon men have, or strive to have, more than one (often underage) wife.
This was driven home to me as investigators late last week swooped on a polygamist compound in a remote part of west Texas in response to an abuse complaint.
The compound belongs to followers of jailed polygamist leader Warren Jeffs and is linked to the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, which broke away from the main branch of the faith decades ago.
Over 400 children were yanked from the Texas facility over the course of the weekend and into the early part of this week, providing a riveting spectacle in a dusty corner of the state.
Television footage showed young girls in long, apparently homemade “pioneer dresses” boarding buses. Some who looked to be in their early teens carried infant children. Texas child welfare officials said it was their biggest operation ever.
As all of this was unfolding my wife happened to mention to a friend of hers in South Africa — a friend who is well-educated, a journalist and a devout Christian — that I was covering the story. Her friend’s response? “Those Mormons, they’re weird. I don’t answer the door when they knock,” she said. My wife said as far as her friend was concerned, Mormons were Mormons and that was that.
Of course, the mainstream Mormon church, which claims a worldwide membership of around 13 million, is the one sending missionaries around the globe to knock on doors and spread the faith.
The renegade polygamist sects whose followers number several thousand (some estimates are as high as 40,000 or more) are not knocking on doors in Johannesburg. But the perception is clearly there: Mormons are the funny fellows taking multiple wives and living in isolated retreats in remote patches of America.
In places like Texas, the mainstream Mormon faith — based in Salt Lake City, Utah — has to contend with plenty of suspicion anyway.
Southern Baptists and other evangelicals widely regard Mormonism as an almost sinister cult which is successfully competing for souls among the faithful. They regard Joseph Smith, who founded the faith in New York state in 1830, as a false prophet. Southern Baptists are taught in Sunday School to be wary of that “knock on the door” from Mormon missionaries.
Against this backdrop the last thing the mainstream LDS needs is more bad press stemming from its fundementalist kin. The Texas media is abuzz about the probe and court documents alleging a compound rife with sexual abuse and girls being forced into “spiritual marriage” after reaching puberty.
One also gets the impression that Texas authorities were chomping at the bit to take the place down, given the scale of the operation in response to complaints allegedly made by one person.
But it has all served to reinforce popular stereotypes of the Mormon faith — and that must be causing discomfit in Salt Lake City.
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160 comments so far
Thanks for writing this article.
You’re right- I’m a real “Mormon” or a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (My ancestors on both sides of the family came out to Utah with Brigham Young and were originally from Norway, Denmark, England, and Switzerland. I’m currently working on my Ph.D. at Purdue, but I’m originally from Utah.)
When I hear about these psycho polygamist sects making national news and the news agencies referring to them as “Mormons” and “followers of Joseph Smith,” it just makes me sick. These people are about as much followers of Joseph Smith as terrorists are followers of the Muslim faith! There practices are considered apostate and evil, and anyone who abuses a child, in OUR faith, is worthy of death (subject to the laws of the land, which we put before our own laws). Oh, how I wish people would search out the truth about us instead of believing what they hear from whoever they hear it from.
Unfortunately, as you say, some of the false information is spread by evangelical/baptist preachers who fear losing their flock (and hence their income) to Mormon missionaries. This strikes me as kind of funny, because in our Church, we’re actually encouraged to invite anyone into our home who has a sincere and loving concern for our souls. The idea is that together, the truth will eventually be found out, as long as people have a genuine love/concern for eachother and they are open-minded. (In fact, I heard that when Mike Huckabee and the Southern Baptist Convention came to SLC, Utah a few years ago, a number of them actually ended up joining our faith because how well-received they were…) I wish we could teach the world the power of 1) love (instead of fear) and 2) open-mindedness in the search for truth of all kinds- scientific and spiritual.
The people of my faith do indeed claim to have some things that others do not. But, we do not believe we are superior or that we need to FORCE anyone to do anything. We are followers of Christ and if Christ did anything, it was love. He did not judge. Our Church teaches that truth does the judging ok by itself; people should do the loving.
Thanks for writing this article. Hopefully it will help!
Shaun Hansen
- Posted by Shaunthis article is lacking in truth. the name of the polygamist group is “the fundamentalist church of latter day saints” not the fundamentalist church of (Jesus Christ) of latter day saints. The mormons abandon plural marriage over a hundred years ago.Iam a mormon and if I marry more than one wife, I will be excommunicated. Also,our late president Gordon B. Hinckley said there’s no such thing as a fundamentalist mormon. You are either a mormon or a non mormon. If you form another church , then that church no longer fall under the umbrella of the The Church Of Jesus Christ of the Latter day Saints. The writer of this article has a hidden agenda, and that is to connect this polygamist group to the mormon church which is far from the truth.
- Posted by Phil OlleroThe misconceptions put forth by the media is more of a reflection on the “Media’s ignorance”, lack of scholarship, and in some cases, even outright deception,
than it is on the Mormons.
The Associated Press style guide states clearly that the term “Mormon” is “never” to be used, unless referring to members of the “Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints”, period. Any other group should not be referred to with that term in any way, whatsoever.
You would never refer to a Lutheran or an Anglican as a fundamentalist Catholic. This PR problem is the media’s
agenda. The LDS Church increases it’s membership by a million people every 2.5 years. Honest people seeking truth don’t look to the lying media for their guidance.
This group in Texas is the absolute antithesis of anything a Mormon believes or teaches.
These people in Texas are in no way akin to the actual Mormons, nor does their style of polygamy in any way resemble the polygamy of the 1800’s Mormon church.
There was no marrying nieces and or isolationism in the 1800’s. In reality, only 5-10% of all 19th century adult males ever entered into polygamy. Also remember that polygamy is not just a Mormon thing, Biblical Prophets such as, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Solomon, David, etc. were all polygamists. The worlds three major religions still consider all of them to be men of God.
True journalists would never make these mistakes, Baptists, propogandists and shoddy journalists do.
If the media wants to put their bias on display for the world to see, who are we to intervene. Like all dishonest endeavours, the truth will out!.
ajarizona
- Posted by ajarizonaThere are many Mormon sects, of which the LDS church is just one - the largest and best known, but just one more sect.
If the LDS church had the courage to instruct it’s members in law enforcement and the courts to enforce the laws and protect the children in the smaller sects, this problem could have been dealt with long ago. Instead, generations of girls have been raped. It’s a shameful failure of the Utah and Arizona power structures which are LDS dominated. Thank God for Texas. The Utah Attorney General just gave an interview in which he admitted he ‘almost’ did the same thing. Almost isn’t good enough.
LDS canon still claims that polygamy will be practiced in heaven, and the main canon of the LDS church (the D&DC) still has the commands to Joseph Smith to practice it, but nothing to stop practicing. The FLDS church is actually following Smith’s commands more acurately than the LDS church.
- Posted by Janet WadeYes, finding PR contrast and real or imagined differences between the breakaway sects of Mormonism and the S.L.C. ‘Brighamite’ version is a real problem. . . it may even approach the difficulty of specifying on some basis other than color, a telling difference between the light and the dark divisions of chicken droppings.
- Posted by c. greysThis message is in reply to the posting of Janet Wade, whose post contains some very odd assertions, and some incorrect, or misleading statements.
First of all, she seems to think that the church should instruct its members in ‘law enforcement’…? Since when do members of the LDS church assume the responsibilities of law enforcement? Are we to form a posse? Does she expect that members of other churches also are to be a part of law enforcement?
Secondly, the D&C is not the ‘main canon’ of the church. The canon consists of the Bible, Book of Mormon, D&C, and Pearl of Great Price. No one of these is considered the main canon.
Finally, the she claims that the canon contains no instructions to stop polygamy. This too is not correct. The Doctrine and Covenants does include the ‘manifesto’, instruction that members are to no longer practice polygamy, and this manifesto has constituted the church’s vieww on the practice of polygamy since. Anyone who enters into polygamy is going contrary to this doctrine, and is excommunicated.
- Posted by ValJanet Wade said “If the LDS church had the courage to instruct it’s members in law enforcement and the courts to enforce the laws and protect the children in the smaller sects, this problem could have been dealt with long ago.”
I don’t know how many times we have to mention that these splinter groups have nothing to do with the LDS church. Blaming the LDS church for them (or for the lack of prosecution of them) is akin to blaming the Pope for not policing the things that Protestant church members do. Janet Wade must bang on the doors of the Vatican every time Protestants behave badly.
- Posted by B ThomasThey are following Joseph Smiths teachings. The LDS church changed the Mormon prophets teaching to fit into society….
The Mormons have been adapting the teachings to fit better into society constantly. Mormons have quite a few problems that can make them viewed as a cult…
- Posted by M GreeneI must respectfully disagree with several of the above statements. This article seeks to distinguish members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from break-away polygamist sects and does a good job of it. In the heads of most people, as this article demonstrates, “Mormons are Mormons.” Main-stream Mormons should be grateful for this article, not condemn it.
The debate over who may or may not be labeled Mormon reminds me of the fight over who may call themselves Christian. Most Christian sects deny Mormons the label of Christians while Mormons claim to represent pure restored Christianity. If a person believes in the divinity of Jesus Christ, aren’t they Christian? If a person believes in the prophetic role of Joseph Smith, aren’t they a Mormon? Or should they be called Josephites? Latter-day Saints? Restorationists? Who gets to control labels?
Mr. Stoddard, this Mormon appreciates the great article. It highlights the struggle the Church faces in defining itself in both America, and throughout the world. With what many Americans believe about the faith, no wonder Republicans were suspicious of Mitt Romney.
- Posted by AlanWere New Testament Christians a “Cult”?
Mormons are not Creedal Christians. However, they do believe in the Jesus Christ of the New Testament:
The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is often accused by Evangelical pastors of not believing in Christ and, therefore, not being a Christian religion. This article http://mormonsarechristian.blogspot.com/ helps to clarify such misconceptions by examining early Christianity’s comprehension of baptism, the Godhead, the deity of Jesus Christ and His Atonement.
The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) adheres more closely to First Century Christianity and the New Testament than any other denomination. For example, Harper’s Bible Dictionary entry on the Trinity says “the formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the New Testament.”
One Baptist blogger stated “99 percent of the members of his Baptist church believe in the Mormon (and Early Christian) view of the Trinity. It is the preachers who insist on the Nicene Creed definition.” It seems to me the reason the pastors denigrate the Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is to protect their flock (and their livelihood).
Further reading; http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/
- Posted by Mormons Are ChristianWhy don’t Evangelicals have a “fundamental PR problem”?
Evangelical polygamists have about 50,000 members in the United States. One group, LoveNotForce.com, teaches the “Standard of Christian Polygamy.” Men are instructed on how to “unlock the gate,” so wives will be more open to their men having more wives.
So the Evanglicals have more polygamists than the offshoots. Are they competing with one another?
http://www.chron.com/commons/persona.htm l?newspaperUserId=kengurley&plckPersonaP age=BlogViewPost&plckUserId=kengurley&pl ckPostId=Blog%3AkengurleyPost%3A7c898aac -d02d-4ad3-a62e-7acff57db0fb&plckControl ler=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript &plckElementId=personaDest
- Posted by BotI would encourage Janet Wade (and anyone following the events in Texas) to do some research into the Short Creek raid in 1953. Utah, Arizona, and (unofficially) Mormon leaders once did something, and it backfired. Is force the best way to solve a difficult situation? It didn’t work last time.
Certainly society must stand up against child abuse. I’m just not certain that this action was the best way to do it. We’ll have to wait and see if things turn out differently this time.
- Posted by AlanThe Mormon’s fundamental (without the quotation marks) problem is that Joseph Smith made the whole thing up.
Later, Brigham Young took over to satisfy his personal power trip.
- Posted by PeterWere New Testament Christians a “Cult”?
Yes.
- Posted by WayneI wonder who perpetuates that “PR problem”?
Surely not Reuters or any other news source.
The problem lies with you Reuters.
Thanks for all your “help” Reuters.
The “fundemental problem” here is folks have itching ears, and Reuters and many “Christians” make good money catering to those with itcing ears.
Letting Reuters and Southern Baptists define the LDS faith is like letting the pharisees define Christ’s doctrine.
- Posted by Big GIf Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were around today, which religious organization would they see as closest to the one they started or led west? I would say it is the Fundamentalist group(s) that mainstream Mormons eschew. In addition, where is Utah in all of this? The states leaders and citizens hide and ignore these same practices because they know how many of their fore fathers were involved in exactly the same practice. Shame on them. “Thank you” to Texas authorities who have dealt with this important societal issue and the crimes involved.
- Posted by BillIts amazing how mormons always justify thier beliefs. This is America and they have that right but if your always having to clarify it then theres a problem. I used to work at the Mormon Church and I am a christian not a mormon. They believe jesus was in south/latin american and this regular joe joseph smith found these tablets that only HE could read and then they Suddenly disappeared. PLEASE. You might as well follow scientology…. They pretend like they believe the same things but then come to find out its a bunch of ADD-ONs by this JOE guy. If you can be EXCOMMUNICATED ITS A CULT PEOPLE> I know i saw first hand…..
- Posted by Jackone more thing…. they also believe that gordon hinckley is a man GOD which is crap. There is no such thing as a guy who gets promoted being a god and also believe they will turn into gods themselves and have a planet of thier own in the afterlife…. COOOOMEE ONNN and thats NORMAL all they did was let some con man add a few chapters on to the bible and dupe them… if they come to my door i will ask them how could they be so naive….
- Posted by JackI rest my case.
And Reuters, thanks for the “PR” help during the primaries.
- Posted by Big GAs a “Mormon,” I find it especially interesting when some people, (like Janet Wade who are obviously not Mormon) tell others what we as Mormons believe. If somebody wants to know more about the Mormons (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints), the best way to find out what we believe is to ask us … maybe more people should open the door when those missionaries knock to get some answers to their questions.
As far as adapting our teachings to society, as M Greene said, I don’t know what he’s referring to if we do not drink, smoke, do drugs, or have premarital sex.
It all comes down to the fact that we believe in modern-day revelation. We believe that God speaks to our Prophets like he did to Moses and other prophets of old.
- Posted by DaveThe Roman Catholic Church can excommunicate its members as well and it’s an official “Christian” religion.
I have a childhood friend who is Mormon and he’s an amazing man with a wonderful family. I also have friends who are Jewish, Muslim and Christian. I was raised Catholic but would generally consider myself “Chrisian” with no strong religious affiliation. I do not believe the Church of Latter Day Saints condones polygamy any more than say, the Catholic Church does. However, all states must vigorously root out these cults that harm children and force young girls to marry men often old enough to be their grandfathers. It’s appalling that these girls are so casually raped and that it has taken so long for any state to do anything about it. Wake up Arizona, Colorado and Utah!
- Posted by KatherineFor anyone that is above bigotry and wants the facts unlike a few of the people of the above….
We belive Jesus appeared in the Americas to descendents of the Israelite people. They kept records and gold plates that were buried in the earth from about 400 to 1828 A.D. Joseph Smith was visited by God the Father and Jesus Christ, and later by an angel who directed him to the plates. He translated the plates into what is known now as the Book of Mormon. This record corroborates the Bible and will lead all followers of Christ to a better understanding of Him. Most critics of this book never read it. We don’t ask anyone to take our word for it, unlike preachers and bigots who want you to truth their word only. Read it for yourself and find out, if you truly want to know Christ and have some hope in this world.
As far as the PR issue goes, yes it is problematic because so much of the media irresponsibly lump these factions into the same group as the LDS church. Under your criteria, Lutherans are cult followers of Martin Luther and fundamentalist Catholics. Muslims are cult followers of Mohammed, Buddists ad infinitum.
For any real - not professed - truth seekers who want a more logical explanantion of these things, see the addresses of just a few days ago from those we believe are ordained apostles and witnesses of the resurrected Christ:
http://lds.org/conference/sessions/displ ay/0,5239,23-1-851,00.html
- Posted by SteveCKarl Marx said that religion is the opium of the people. So easy to read how differing points of view escalate into outright agression ( verbal in this instance). We should probably ponder on the impact of this “I am holier than thou” attitude, and why are muslims pithcing against jews, or catholics against protestants, or as in this case.
- Posted by NPI suggest that if we’d worship piles of mud and sticks, we would -perhaps-have less conflict in this world.
First of all, i thank you all for your ideas. I am from Uganda-Africa and have so far lived in American for five years. On my arrival here i got confused with so many churches! For instance, there are some for and against homosexual-suprise.Seeing all this cultural norms for the first time i withdrew going to church but later joined. In my neighborhood I happened to have met Mormon followers! We interracted for quite some with lots of convictions, but i had my own stand as prostestant and that was it. Reading from the book of Mormon that i still have this faith is a nebulous one! Whoever has said that they knock on people\’s doors like crazy yes they do. Those believes of polygmy meet them and ask for their opinions! don\’t be puzzled with the answers. It\’s unfortunate that such cults are spreading all over the world like a flue virus. A case in point is that most African countries were unaware of such churches and now days this sort of churches go confuse people that they\’re helping them out of poverty next thing you know is a church that\’s their to help people. All churches involved in such episode must know it\’s sinful to confuse people in the name of God. I have no big issues with polygmy because iam from one. I do not back it but since i grew in it my perception is totally different compared to you who has never.
- Posted by Paul WangotaThe whole idea am writing this is to react to Shaun Hansen. If you don\’t him refer to first respond on this article. Shaun, I am a student like you and it\’s rude for you to name terrorist as only followers of Moslem religion. I believe terrorist can be from any religion. I note that most schools (purdue included) are tought by moslem elites. I don\’t think this people are terrorist but it\’s just their faith. Shaun,I have not researched on this word, but if this is what it\’s affliated to then i apologize. I am from a secular country and to be honest majority of moslems are as innocent as you are. I have eaten, played and lived with them no problem at all. For your own information, there are those who can be bad because they belong to gangs! From reading books there are gangs and serial killers all over the world and am sure they are non moslems to.Men like Hitler, Napoleon, Musolin where Moslims to you?
few accounts of Joseph Smith\’s declarations. I do love the one about the angel with the fiery sword threatening to kill poor Joe if he doesn\’t have sex with a lot of women and children. Love that one.
\”The same God that has thus far dictated me and directed me and strengthened me in this work, gave me this revelation and commandment on celestial and plural marriage, and the same God commanded me to obey it. He said to me that unless I accepted it, and introduced it, and practiced it, I, together with my people would be damned and cut off from this time henceforth. We have got to observe it. It is an eternal principle and was given by way of commandment and not by way of instruction.\”
- Prophet Joseph Smith, Contributor, Vol. 5, p. 259
\”When that principle was revealed to the Prophet Joseph Smith … he did not falter, although it was not until an angel of God, with a drawn sword, stood before him; and commanded that he should enter into the practice of that principle, or he should be utterly destroyed, or rejected, that he moved forward to reveal and establish that doctrine.\”
- Prophet Joseph F. Smith, \”Plural Marriage for the Righteous Only-Obedience Imperative-Blessings Resulting\”, Journal of Discourses, Vol.20, p.28 - p.29
\”Joseph was commanded to take more wives and he waited until an angel with a drawn sword stood before him and declared that if he longer delayed fulfilling that command he would slay him.\”
- Posted by Amy- Hyrum Smith, Elder Benjamin F. Johnson\’s Letter to George S. Gibbs, 1903
Members of the LDS do believe in “a” Jesus. The Jesus they believe in is fundamentally different from the Jesus that orthodox and historic Christians believe in. LDS Jesus is the spirit brother of Lucifer and at one time was like us and became ‘god’.
Orthodox and historic Christians believe that Jesus is the second ‘person’ within the Trinity. Jesus was and has always been been part of the Triune God. Here are some links about Mormonism…
http://www.equip.org/site/apps/nlnet/con tent2.aspx?c=muI1LaMNJrE&b=2616123&ct=36 15349
- Posted by Davidand
http://www.utlm.org/faqs/faqgeneral.htm
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or “Mormons” as they are called is about as Christian as you can get. If anyone has ever studied the church with a sincere and open mind they would know that. We believe in the Christ of the new testament. We believe he died on the cross for our sins, and on the 3rd day was ressurected. We beleive that Jesus called 12 desciples or apostles just as He has today. The LDS church teaches today just as the early day members of the church were taught in Christ’s day.
- Posted by KevinHey moderator…
Nice and fair of you to permit/post comments of people calling other people belief’s “crap” etc. but then censor comments that rebuke them personally for this. Your personal agenda and selection of what is isn’t published reveals your own lack of professionalism, integrity, and commitment to the free press.
Reuters should be ashamned of you…
If you disagree, then publish this post, otherwise every accusation here is true. I’d like to be proven wrong.
- Posted by MediaJack and Janet and others that don’t know what they are talking about, this is for you.
When you don’t know what you are talking about, you shouldn’t talk. Catholics have been excommunicated, I guess they are a cult too according to Jack.
Janet, let me point you to Official Declaration 1 in D&C that says pretty plainly that plural marriage was stopped and would not be praticed anymore.
If you say Joseph made it up, you haven’t read the Book of Mormon obviously. There is no way with his education that he could have come up with that. Stop listening to your pastor.
More than likely the Book of Mormon takes place in Central America (Guatemala and Mexico) than in South America Jack. And you say “joseph smith found these tablets that only HE could read and then they Suddenly disappeared.” You claim you are a Christian but don’t believe the Lord could take these up, have you read the Bible?
As for the article, I thought it was good. I do agree that people do tend to think of us all as Mormons and don’t see the difference (like Janet). But we do not have anything to do with them, they are not part of our church and we have no control over them and can’t tell them what to do. The law of the land is the ones that set the laws and have to enforce them, not the church that they broke away from.
Last thing to say, get educationed before you say something. Some of you claim to be Christian yet because you don’t know the truth and you spread it on places like this you are spreading false truths, which others take for truth. Are not false truths and half truths the same thing Satan uses to get us to sin. Therefore you are sinning by doing this and you will have to answer for your actions eventually.
- Posted by Lars F.I hate to say it folks, but the LDS Church still believes in polygamy. Ask any honest Mormon.
Why do non-Mormons confuse the LDS with the FLDS? The confusion stems largely from the fact that JS and BY both so strongly advocated and practiced polygamy. Most people are not familiar with the idea of “continuing revelation.” They have this odd habit of associating words like “religion” and “revelation” with “eternal truth,” with truths that do not change, not with mere practices that are taken up and then put down depending upon changes in worldly circumstance.
Janet Wade and her respondent Val have things only half right. Val is correct to say that the Woodruff Manifesto is (sort of) included in D&C. But Wade is right that D&C 132 remains on the books. D&C still tells us unequivocally that if a man espouse a virgin and she not be espoused to another man it “cannot be adultery.” It might be illegal in the eyes of the government, but it is not itself immoral in the eyes of the Church.
The Church has suspended the PRACTICE of plural marriage, but it retains the PRINCIPLE of plural marriage. So there’s a sense in which it is perfectly fair to say that Mormons, to this day, continue to “believe in” polygamy.
On another point, Alan has it just right: “If a person believes in the divinity of Jesus Christ, aren’t they Christian? If a person believes in the prophetic role of Joseph Smith, aren’t they a Mormon?” Whether the LDS Church likes it or not, FLDS beliefs are grounded in the Book of Mormon and revelations of JS and BY, and hence it only makes sense to consider them a Mormon sect. Just as moderate Baptists cannot plausibly claim that Fred Phelps’s group is not Christian, the LDS Church cannot plausibly claim the FLDS is not Mormon.
- Posted by DavidMost Mormons will claim that polygamy a practice relegated to history, they are quick to point out that polygamy was banned over one hundred years ago and is now an excommunicable offense.
However, attempts to disavow polygamy are misleading as the Doctrine & Covenants, Section 132 remains as canonized church doctrine.
Polygamy is still practiced in the sense that a man who remarries after the death of his wife can be sealed to his new wife and expects to live with both women in heaven. This also applies to men who have obtained a civil divorce but have not canceled a previous temple sealing(s).
Joseph Fielding Smith, tenth president of the church, married Louise E. Shurtleff in 1898 who died in 1908. In 1908, Smith married Ethel G. Reynolds, who died in 1937. The following year, Smith married Jessie Evans, who died in 1971. He was sealed “for eternity” to each of those women.
Paraphrasing the question asked of Jesus by the Pharisees: which woman will be married to Smith in the celestial kingdom? According to Mormon doctrine, ALL THREE will be his wives. Isn’t that polygamy?
Additional examples include Howard W. Hunter, the 14th president, who married Clara May Jeffs in 1931. After she died in 1983, Hunter married Inis Bernice Egan in 1990. Both women were sealed to him for “time and eternity”. Before his death in 1995, Hunter stated that he was looking forward to being reunited with his two wives in heaven. “President Hinckley affirmed the eternal nature of the marriage between Sister Hunter and the former church president, whose first wife, Claire Jeffs, died after a long battle with Alzheimer’s disease and is now buried beside him in the Salt Lake Cemetery.
Inis Hunter “will now be laid to rest on the other side,” he said. “They were sealed under the authority of the Holy Melchizedek Priesthood for time and for all eternity,” he said, recalling the marriage ceremony he performed for them in the Salt Lake Temple in April 1990.” (http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,51 43,695221068,00.html)
In April 2006, Church Apostle Russell M. Nelson married for a second time. His first wife had passed away the previous year. Both his first and second marriage were “solemnized” in an LDS Temple ceremony which, according the LDS beliefs, means that he will spend eternity married to both women. While these church leaders cannot be cannot be labeled practicing polygamists in this life, according to Church teachings they will be in the next.
(Of course, Jesus answered that there was NO marriage in heaven, but he obviously didn’t understand Mormon doctrine.)
- Posted by caedmonIt amazes me how a news article about a polygamist sect that is doing disgusting things can erupt into a religios discussion about doctrines of a church that have nothing to do with the people spoken of in the article. Why are we bad-mouthing religions when we should be praying for those affected in Texas.
- Posted by KevinThis is for David and others that believe as him about us.
Duh, Jesus was like us. Remember, he was born of Mary, grew up and then died for us.
Yes, we do believe in a premortal life and that Jesus was there, as were we and Satan/Lucifier. We are all spiritual children of our Heavenly Father. Jesus was the God of the Old Testement, Heavenly Father was the God in the NT. Heavenly Father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost/Spirit are the God Head.
Tips for others that don’t know about our church, don’t get your information about what we believe from sites that are against the church, they are full of lies. Oddly enough usually written by people that claim to be Born Again and don’t sin. HAA, hate to tell you but everyone sins, that is what Jesus came for.
- Posted by Lars F.This brings to mind a protest sign I saw directed at Scientologists: “Get a Real phony religion!”
- Posted by chasI am Mormon. I have been all my life. I have gone to other churches with friends and even other family members. Of course there were jokeson how many husbands i would have but they all stopped when i told them “WE DO NOT BELIEVE OR PRACTICE MULTIBLE MARRAIGES!!!” If any of the people who have posted such terrible things on this post would just open there minds and try to understand unless they truely research a subject they have little idea of what they speak of. I am proud to be mormon. my family is proud to be menbers of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I was not pressured to have more that one husband or to be one of many wifes. I know this church is true, i know Joseph smith is a true prophet of God, and i will glady give my testimony of it. A truely good and christ like person doesnt persicute anothers believes without knowledge. I do not say i am better than anyone else. But it seemes to me that all of you who “throw stones” are simply throwing them at yourselves. i’m sure your religion wasnt always the popular one. read some history for heavens sake.
- Posted by Anneand another thing. The people in texas deserve an help the can get. no one deserves to be rasied or forced into a situation like that. they need prayers and kindness and compassion, regardless of their religion.
- Posted by AnneAs a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I appreciate the author of this blog distinguishing between the LDS Church and the Fundamentalist Church. They are two separate churches. The LDS Church continues to make this known to those who will listen. Please see:
http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/ commentary/polygamy-investigation
To address the other comments that have been made, the issues appear to come down to believing in Joseph Smith and modern revelation. I know Joseph Smith was a prophet of God and The Book of Mormon is the word of God. To find out why I believe and to learn more about my Church’s beliefs and doctrines, I invite you to visit:
http://www.mormon.org/
Mormon.org is an official website of the LDS Church. It helps you can find information and answers about the Church from the source.
- Posted by Jeff E.I really reject the assertion that these events cause any doscomfit in SLC. Actually, I not only reject, it just simly isn’t true. Further, i think it revelas the author’s ignorance of his topic. The events surrounding these polygamists have the same impact in SLC (where I once lived) as they do anywhere. Folks in SLC I’m sure find the stories of child-brides and abuse sad and reprehensible. Basically the same reaction folks have in California where I live now. What DOES distress the LDS community are the efforts of a minority in the media to portray a connection (other than long past history) between the two goups (LDS and Polygamists). But don’t imagine that we really lose much sleep over any of this. I tend to find that those whose equate the modern LDS faith in any serious way with polygamists also haven’t read a paper, or listenend to any sources beyond their pastor in some time. In other words, equating the two groups isn’t the viewpoint of informed, thoughtful people.
- Posted by ep1433I appreciate everyones comments. It’s nice to see we have such a diverse world with different opinions. God granted each of us free agency and our democracy grants us freedom of religion. The Lord loves all of us because we are all His children.
- Posted by KevinThe Bible say that by their fruits ye shall know them. This litmus test is one of the most cited in religion and has a practical appeal to it.
The fruits of Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine & Covenants are not only the mainstream LDS faith, but all people that believe in and follow the Book of Mormon, the Prophet Joseph Smith and the other scripture that he produced.
The legacy of Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon and the “Mormons” are not the exclusive realm of the mainstream LDS faith and it is blatantly arrogant to assume that is the truth.
If the Latter-Day Saints look at a fundamentalist group and do not see something in common, a reflection of their own faith, they are blind. The LDS population (and the Christian world for that matter) has more in common with these people than they have differences.
There are to my understanding two times that the Church lost significant numbers of their memebership.
First, was the succession of authority from Joseph Smith to Brigham Young. The second was the time that the LDS leadership declared, by the Manifesto, that polygamy would cease.
Ironically, the people that left the church following the death of Joseph Smith generally rejected the practice of polygamy. The people that left the church or were excommunicated from the church at the time of the Maifesto were among the strongest supporters of polygamy.
The transitions in an out of polygamy are interesting. If you listen to the indivisuals of the RLDS church talk about their believe regarding the transition of power to Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. You will find that there is no clear logical way of distinguishing whether they should follow Brigham Young or not. In the first instance, the LDS faith mandated marriage of one woman to one man. Then, that doctrine was repealed and replaced with the New and Everlasting Coventant that authorized plural marriage. At the time of the Manifesto, the LDS church had defied for several years the secular government of the United States in a manner similar to the FLDS. Then, they stated that the LDS Church would subject themselves to the secular authority of the Church (only at a time of duress). The polygamists that left the Church subject to that time, do not view that departure to be consistent in any way with what they were taught before the Manifesto. The FLDS members have shown an uncompromising spirit that would foster the admiration of Joseph Smith (they just believe something different from the mainstream LDS faith.
There are other similarities between the practices and teachings of Joseph Smith and the FLDS. For example, it is fairly well documented in the journals of faithful members of the church that Joseph Smith married a 14 year old and her 16 year old sister.
Joseph Smiths incarceration in Carthage was not because he destroyed the Nauvoo Expositor for printing lies about him. Rather, the Nauvoo Expositor was printing a very credible account of the practice of polygamy which included Joseph Smith taking to wife, women who were married at the time to their living spouses.
The racist, anti-african, garbage that was spewed from the mouth of Warren Jeffs comes right from the well documented teachings of Brigham Young.
The FLDS are not the fruits of the modern LDS faith, but they are the fruits of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, the Book of Mormon and other scripture brought forward by Joseph Smith. They believe and follow it to the best of their understanding.
- Posted by Pablo[…] “You would think that after over 100 years, media organizations would understand the difference,” he said. “You can’t blame the public for being confused when some of those reporting on these stories keep getting them wrong.” Reuters notices this as well, “Mormons have “fundamental” PR problem.” […]
- Posted by Shaking Polygamy | A Soft AnswerHEY KATHERINE, YOU WAKE UP! UTAH WAS THE FIRST TO START PROSECUTING THESE ABUSERS.
JEFFS WAS CONVICTED IN UTAH AND SENTENCED TO PRISON IN UTAH, AS WAS TOM GREEN, MANY YEARS BEFORE JEFFS.
THEY WERE PROSECUTED BY A MORMON DISTRICT ATTORNEY AND A MORMON ATTORNEY GENERAL.
GET OFF YOUR HIGH HORSE AND STOP ACTING LIKE TEXAS GOT THIS BALL ROLLING.
THE MORMONS OF UTAH HAVE LED THE WAY IN PROSECUTING THOSE WHO HAVE COMMITED CRIMES.
AGAIN, THE ABSOLUTE IGNORANCE OF PEOPLE ON THIS TOPIC IS TRUELY AN AMAZING THING TO BEHOLD.
AJARIZONA
- Posted by aj arizonaLars et al Mormon defenders,
I got most of my ‘education’ about the LDS while living in the second LDS mecca - Mesa Arizona. I had a great friends who was a member of the LDS and latter became a Christian (born again in the ‘classic sense’). While a member of the LDS in good standing he would defend the LDS in public forums (news media, etc).
Simply put the Jesus I believe in (as defined by orthodox historic Christianity) is not the same as what the LDS teaches or what most members of the LDS believe in.
I am not saying whether or not members of the LDS are good or bad people. I am not saying their religion is any better or worse than others that are out there. I am saying there is a fundamental difference in beliefs between what the LDS teaches and what the historic orthodox Christian Church has taught for ~ 2000 years.
It is interesting that whenever someone challenges a member of the LDS, the resulting argument usually boils down to (coming from the Mormon): “you are lying” or “anyone against the ‘church’ (LDS) is lying” or some form of personal attack.
- Posted by DavidIt’s funny to hear people argue about what religion is wacky than the other. They are all dumb, especially any religion that thanks a 16 year old kid found gold plates in the woods with special glasses that only he could wear and translate the plates. c’mon don’t be dumb. every person who is listed in the book of mormon as having seen the plates was kicked out of the church. They believed the indians were white people that had been cursed for their sins with dark skin. I believe that every male at the age of 13 is considered a priest, but until the 1970s no blacks males were allowed to hold the title. All religions have used the bible to justify their past racism, but the mormons sound silly. Every religion is pretty stupid, but this one takes the cake
- Posted by KevinAnne,
A couple of comments:
1. “A truely good and christ like person doesnt persicute anothers believes without knowledge.”
Actually a Christian would not persecute anyone especially about their beliefs (or lack there of). You are not being persecuted nor is the LDS being persecuted. Real persecution is what happens in the Sudan or China or certain Muslim countries. That is persecution.
You and your beliefs are being questioned. That is all.
2. Calm down and take some time to write a logical and thoughtful response rather than one full of emotion. I say that because your response was full of misspellings and poor grammar.
I know that when I have read or heard something which affected me in a personal way I would often respond emotionally. Think first & then write.
- Posted by DavidThank-you to Anne for your testimony. I too have been raised in the LDS church and am very proud of it and who it represents (Jesus Christ). If only the whole world practiced what the LDS church teaches it would be a wonderful world we live in.
- Posted by NicoleI am an LDS member of the church. I am greatly disturbed by this news aswell. This is the type of news anti-Mormons love to hear because it gives them the ability to mislead others and stain the reputation of the church. However, every time someone actually learns about our true doctrines and teachings, to me it seems they always develop a great respect for the church and its followers. This news of the polygamist sect is discomforting, but the Lord is in control and he will not allow his work to be frustrated. The mainstream LDS church will continue to grow and spread throughout the nations of the Earth, and the devil and his servents won’t be able to stop it.
- Posted by ZachPeople CLEARLY believe (or at least claim to believe) what they WANT to…
Baptist ministers LOVE to propogate such myths as LDS people believe in polygamy etc. because it helps them collect more money from the SCARED parishioners they’ve harvested.
The Church of JESUS CHRIST of Latter-Day Saints is just that! NO paid clergymen who have their own agenda of scaring unlearned parishioners with their nonsense.
- Posted by James O'CallahanThis is stupid. I have been a mormon. part of the ONLY Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints since I was born. I have been taught good principles by my church doctrine and there has never been anything wrong. There is no polygamy, there hasn’t been any practice in my church with multi marriage for over 100 yrs. When our church leaders stated that the mormon church will no longer practice polygamy everyone stopped because this is a good church and we have faith in our leaders. Some didn’t want to stop the practice and belived that our leaders have gone astray when they did not. Our church leaders did the right and true thing. Those who did not believe the mormons should stop polygamy separated and created their own church different doctrine, priciples, leaders, and beliefs. i do not believe that the people who followed their leaders should be persecuted for something others did.
- Posted by ErinIn Australia, there was an aboriginal tradition of, when a young girl first gets her period, an older male relative or family friend would take her out to the bush for a month or so and have sex with her and then bring her back. These young girls often came back pregnant, andd the babies were raised by the grandparents. Mainstream Australian society was outraged, but they didn’t know how to stop it. So they took young aboriginal girls from their homes and placed them for adoption in non-aboriginal communities. Then the “cultural insensitivity” uproar began. Currently, the girls are left in their homes, subject to this systematic rape/incest. The government does provide them with birth control pills so that their young bodies at least don’t have to have the additional trauma of childbirth. But these Texas girls… they don’t even have the excuse of long-standing cultural tradition. This stuff was made up a maximum of a couple hundred years ago. What’s the solution to anything? I don’t know. Love our neighbors enough to know what they’re doing and care about the abuse of their children?
- Posted by SamI am 37 years old and my wisdom gained so far on this earth is that it is easy to become confused, get angry and spew hate.
Part of the article is about said confusion and misunderstanding.
Joseph Smith was in the same plight as a young man.
I identify with him.
I also believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and that compels me to love those that abuse or maltreat me and forgive our trespassers and turn the other cheek when slighted.
I know this is the true gospel of the Savior.
I also know that the Bible and the Book of Mormon are the word of God.
But don’t take my or Reuter’s word for it. Test them yourselves.
And Mr. Wangota from Uganda: check again the comparison made by Shaun. I think you misread it.
Peace my brothers and sister and I love you all.
God does, too, even more than me, of course.
Edward
- Posted by Ed ClinchWow! What a conversation. So many different views. There’s one interesting fact that no one has mentioned. The last recognized polygamous marriage sanctified by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints happened in 1889. The FLDS church wasn’t organized until 1930. So did these people take 40 years to decide which part of the “Mormon” religion they wanted to believe in? Another interesting thing no one else has mentioned is that The Book of Mormon itself strongly condemns plural marriage (see Jacob 2:27)and clearly teaches that marriage is between one man and one woman. The main question here should be is child abuse or spousal ever appropriate under any circumstances. The leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have been condemning child and spousal abuse for many decades. The FLDS church leaders who force women and chidren into such a degrading and evil lifestyle are the only ones at fault in this awful situation. History can’t be blamed for today’s evil.
- Posted by BettyAs an Arizona resident, I am exposed to Mormonism all the time. As a high school student I have many Mormon friends. I have (with an open mind, I might add) read the Book of Mormon and parts of the other canon. Does it matter, what specifically people believe in, if it makes them a better person? I think that all religions are all paths to God or whatever you may believe in. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is an institution that betters people. They, or any other religion, should not have to take responsibility for the fringe psychos. As a Non-Mormon, I see Mormonism just as I see any other religion, as a path to God. (I’m a Unitarian Universalist by the way.) So I propose that anybody with some sort of vandetta against Mormonism to keep it to yourself, and those LDS members on here to reply in a way that retains your dignity, your audience, and that of your church. We all have different views of the Divine, but does that make us bad people? Blessed be those who suffered in Texas.
- Posted by RyanIt’s interesting that the surname “Stoddard” is very prominent in the history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It’s entirely possible that Mr. Ed is a descendant who has wandered off to tell another tale.
- Posted by Steve 45While I appreciate that Betty is sincere in her position, I would encourage her to dig a little deeper into the history of the end of polygamy in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the beginnings of the several polygamists sects. It was not until 1904 and Joseph F. Smith’s second Manifesto that Mormon leaders really started to crack down on polygamists and to purge the Church of those leaders who still encouraged it. Even then, the issue wasn’t resolved. Most fundamentalist sects trace their beginnings back to the 3rd President of the LDS Church, John Taylor, during the time of the federal raids. It’s some interesting history that can not be simply summarized on a discussion board. I think you’d enjoy learning more about it.
- Posted by AlanThe LDS church has an extensive and remarkable PR system. Not only do our 50,000+ missionaries contribute, but the thousands of TV and Radio spots that run daily. Our leaders meet with political presidents, talk-show hosts, and international organizations. Physically, we have 22,000+ meeting houses, 125 temples, and almost 300,000 new converts worldwide every year.
We make the news. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has an awesome presence…..but Reuters ignores it. The reason the LDS church doesn’t make Reuters national news more often is because the church actually obeys civil law and respects the beliefs of others, like the Baptists.
Only negative news makes the news. When Reuters begins reporting on positive contributions made to communities around the nation, the LDS church will begin to make the news every day.
If the media can’t get it right after over 100 years, perhaps there’s little hope they ever will. Even a great PR program can not change rational ignorance. No matter what we do or how we do it, misconceptions will always be out there.
- Posted by ChrisThe article is quite fair, although it strikes me that people will see the Mormon Church the way they want to. I could explain to a KINDERGARTENER that polygamy and the Texas sect have no bearing whatsoever on the mainstream Mormon Church and the lives of its members (aside from having to redress others’ misconceptions), and the kindergartener would understand the FIRST TIME and go on accepting others the way kids do until we teach them otherwise. The Mormon Church abandoned polygamy over a century ago, and a bit of historical research will reveal that none of this wacko sexual abuse was part of the picture then. Since we’re in 2008, you’d think we would profit from our access to information and no longer rely on legends to form our views.
The Mitt Romney presidential bid revealed that we still live in a country full of bigots. Unfortunately, the most intolerant are usually the most outspoken—hence the sensationalism behind the reporting of the Texan sect. In the United States there’s a limit to how much you can spook people out, as there are enough Mormons around to prevent extreme gullibility. Internationally, however, the problem is much worse, and conniving foreigners lick their chops at such a chance to pass intolerance onto their fellow citizens. It’s sheer opportunism. Have we heard this week about the Roman Catholic Church in Germany admitting to its collaboration with the Nazis? What about these extreme Evangelical groups who go around disturbing funerals? Why aren’t people making such a fuss about this, too? That’s precisely my point: people will insist on seeing what they want to.
- Posted by MichaelI love how this went from being about a discussion about the article to being an argument about the church. Wow…some of your comments are so bigoted and hateful its not even neccesary to respond. Really go and get a life.
Ed Stoddard- I appreciate your article. You forgot to mention a few things and a little bit of a different wording might have helped but it was clear and consice. I as a Mormon appreciate it.
- Posted by SarahAlan is correct. Just look at Henry B. Eyring’s (LDS Church 1st Counselor) grandfather, Edward Christian Eyring. He married two Romney sisters (sorry for not putting their names up, but polygamy is by definition sexist anyway), one in 1893 and the second in 1903. He had children with both of them after this, and he and both his wives survived into the 1950s. The statement that LDS Church polygamy ended in 1890 is not correct. Just look this information about Eyring up on familysearch.org. LDS Church polygamy really ended (meaning no new polygamous marriages) in the 1900s sometime. The second manifesto really had a more permanent effect than the first, which since it was not strict, is not very significant.
- Posted by SteveThis conversation became shrill very quickly. That seems to happen in conversations that include the word “polygamy,” at least in our time and culture.
Raping children is reprehensible. It is an ugly, depraved distortion human sexuality, and the marriage bonds that have traditionally protected and nurtured it. It is not the only possible expression of polygamy.
As a group, Americans seem to have a hard time with polygamy. We’re manage to cope with lots of kinds of sex before, outside, and beyond marriage. We can’t get our heads around the fact that there are cultures wherein a man and more than one wife might find a rewarding, satisfying family life. Multiple mistresses, multiple lovers, sex as entertainment, we get. Multiple wifes, not so much. It’s our own myopia and cultural arrogance.
I’m ready to bet a hot fudge sundae that most of those screeching about polygamy don’t have the first idea of what it is they’re condemning. And they aren’t likely to invest much in trying to understand any time soon. Studying humanity can be complex, subtle, interesting, and rewarding. But only if you’re willing to be complex, subtle, interesting, and listening.
- Posted by Lance MylerAs a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I have attempted to become more educated about many faiths, although I’m sure I’m still very ignorant about many of them, or perhaps even misunderstand or associate them with things they do not believe. I am not surprised that many misunderstand what it is Latter-day Saints believe, because I am probably guilty of the same in reference to other religions, but I do hope and encourage others to seek out the truth for themselves–that is one of the most vital beliefs of Latter-day Saints. Talk to someone who is an active member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or visit the Church’s official site at lds.org. If I wanted to know what a Roman Catholic believes, I would talk to my grandmother (who is one) and avoid allowing the media, popular notions, or random sites I googled on the internet to tell me what their faith means to them. As a Latter-day Saint, I love my faith and try to respect the faith of others. I believe that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world. I believe that President Monson is a living prophet today who does indeed receive revelation from God. God has not forgotten us, but lives and still loves all of his children today and wants them to find happiness through modern revelation. I know that each of us can receive answers for ourselves by asking God in faith. It is hard for me to see something so precious to me–my faith–being degraded, whether that be intentionally or in ignorance, so please try to find out what members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe by asking them directly, whether you are a journalist or an individual who is trying to better understand the world around them.
- Posted by Michelle LizonAs a member of the “mainstream” LDS faith I appreciated the intent of this article and felt it was a fair representation of the problem, if a few points could have been added or expounded on. As a follower of Jesus Christ, however, I have been embarrassed by the comments posted here, Mormon and non-Mormon alike. The first and great commandment is to love God and the 2nd, like unto it, to love our neighbors as ourselves. That’s in Matthew folks. There’s been far too little love and respect posted here. Ryan thank you for your post.
On the article’s topic let me just say that the blame for the confusion between the main LDS church and the splinter groups cannot be placed on the media or rival church preachers or any other group solely. If it could, however, it would be with the splinter groups themselves. My husband was born into one of these groups and raised in a second one before JOINING the LDS church. From the LDS perspective they are very different fish. Most of the splinter groups, however, consider themselves to be “Mormons”, even if the more righteous congregations. They will, almost to a person, tell you they are mormons, regardless of whether their beliefs are the same or different, legal or illegal. And each group has it’s own unique concepts and practices, as we’ve disturbingly found out with regards to the FLDS “temple” practices. How are the media or anyone else who hasn’t spent significant time studying the issue supposed to tell the difference? They, like the rest of us, do the best they can and in most cases, they do a reasonable job with a sincere effort to be fair.
- Posted by CrystalJust for clarification- I was speaking of their beliefs, other than polygamy, when I wrote about illegal beliefs. I am well aware that polygamy is illegal under federal and most state statutes. It is the practices such as we’ve heard about this week that I was referring to when stating illegal beliefs.
- Posted by Crystal[…] Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints’ YFZ Ranch in Texas. Blogger Ed Stoddard wrote somewhat sympathetically about the unfortunate “polygamous Mormon” stereotype being […]
- Posted by Mormon Coffee » Faith-Promoting PerceptionsI’ve read all the comments above and am dismayed.
The original article is crying over the fact that FLDS and LDS are getting confused in the press and the perception in the general public is that Mormon is Mormon. It admonishes people to get the facts.
Well…..I’m not Mormon. I’m Southern Baptist..(no, no..keep reading) and I am taking issue with both the author of the original article & some of the posters for the same reasons.
#1 - We do NOT preach anti-Mormonism in “Sunday School.” We teach the New Testament. It is taught much like a History class….History of the Tribe of Israel.
Go to ANY Southern Bapt. Church, anywhere, stop by the Church Office and ask for a copy of the Children’s literature. I DARE you to find ANYTHING in either the children’s copies or the teacher’s guides to which you would object.
#2 - from one of the posters above -
“The Church of Jesus Christ (LDS) is often accused by Evangelical pastors of not believing in Christ and, therefore, not being a Christian religion.”
There are only a 3 steps to becoming a Christian, as per Southern Bapt. doctrine.
Believe that Jesus Christ was the ONLY son of God.
Make a Public profession (announcement) of this.
Be baptized by immersion in the name of the Father (God), the Son (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit.
That’s it.
Therefore, if I understand my LDS doctrine correctly, you aren’t Christians, by the SBC definition.
You don’t believe that Jesus was the ONLY son of God
and you don’t believe in the Trinity.
I’m not saying that this makes Mormon’s bad, I’m just saying it makes them “Not Christian.”
I have nothing but the highest respect for the LDS Church. I lived in Wyoming for a time, and came to respect the members of this church and saw 1st hand the good work that it does.
However, Those of you living in Utah have the same problem that Souther Bapt. in Texas have….you don’t know anything else.
It was a revelation (not in the religious way) to me, when, for the 1st time, I lived somewhere that I wasn’t part of the majority.
I didn’t have the shared cultural experiences as my neighbors, nor did we speak the same language, in many cases, as both the SBC and the LDS have their own vocabulary, many times using the same words but with conflicting definitions.
Whenever I would comment on being a minority, upon meeting Mormons, they would say (almost to a man) “See! We don’t have a tail and horns.” Do you guys teach this stuff to your kids? It must be “shared knowledge.” Why else would EVERYONE say the same thing and in almost the same way?
#3 - As for being a cult. I HATE this word. It has too much baggage. Sect isn’t much better (think Muslim Sect). No, I don’t believe that the LDS is a cult, nor do 99% of the people in the SBC, but I’m sure there are some who do.
#4 - If you take such offense to having FLDS tied to LDS, please quit lumping all of us Bapt. into the same pile and those “Fundamentalist” nuts.
Most Bapt. are like most Mormons: a nice bunch of folks, going to Church, raising our families, and trying to be a decent people. WE don’t have time to throw stone at anyone else, we are too busy mowing the lawn & washing the dishes.
If you want tolerance and understanding, practice it. If you don’t want outsiders saying things you feel are either malicious, or at the least, uninformed, bone up a little on your facts about other’s beliefs. And know this…we aren’t out to get you….HONEST.
- Posted by L WatsonThank you Ed Stoddard for bringing to light the persistent misconceptions about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. As a member of this church, I appreciate responsible journalism and those who attempt to report about such inflammatory stories fairly and accurately.
One can not help but pity the poor women and children who have been abused by unrighteous men anywhere. I am deeply grateful to the leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who repeatedly warn against abuse of any kind and the reporters who bring us news of its occurence. This kind of dialogue needs to be continued.
I am disappointed that this blog has digressed into a cat-fight largely instigated by those who holds animosity or different beliefs than members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. These attempts to continue to link the practice of polygamy with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are insulting, but ultimately in vain. Telling members of the Church what they believe is laughable. Mincing words about whether polygamy was effectively disavowed after the first or second Declaration that it was not approved by the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is of little value.
Polygamy is not a part of the modern teachings of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and those who make this important distinction in the media should be commended for a job well done.
- Posted by DWThank you all for your comments. It was interesting to read so many opinions. However, there is no one’s opinion more important to me than MINE! I know that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the only church on earth today that contains the WHOLE gospel of Jesus Christ. Others have parts, but not ALL. I am grateful that I went through a period of rebellion and questioning because now I can say that this is MY testimony and no one elses. I love the Savior with all my heart and will be forever grateful to Him for His great gift of the Atonement. It gives me the opportunity to return to live with my Father and Brother once again.
- Posted by AmyThis is for “Mormons Are Christian.” Please don’t refer to blogs as articles. There is a huge difference. This is for everybody else. The very fact that this article exists shows that the LDS church has a media problem.
Attacking the motives of the author and the media as a whole is not going to gain members or the LDS church any favor with the media.
The issue is that the LDS church still has a media problem. When people hear about polygamists, they still think “Mormons.” When people hear about temple ceremonies, they will still think about the authorities finding beds in the temple at the YFZ Ranch.
Saying that the LDS church has a media problem is not an attack on the LDS church. It’s just pointing out the obvious. If you travel around the world people have certain beliefs about the LDS church. Why do people take it so personally when somebody points that out?
And further, to point out that the events at the YFZ Ranch are not helping the LDS church is just pointing out the obvious. Nobody is saying they hate Mormons, they’re just saying that their church has a PR problem.
- Posted by T-BoneDW’s main point is very important. Regardless of the LDS’s past with polygamy, it has not been tolerated by the Church for over a century. While it is a more difficult issue than most of us would like to admit, there is no question but that the modern Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints seeks to distance itself from its polygamist cousins and there is zero tolerance for the practice.
- Posted by AlanOh, how I wished I had all day to sort out the confusion people have about my religion (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints). First, to answer Paul, you completely misunderstood my comment about Muslims. I said that to compare these polygamists in Texas to members of my Church is just like comparing terrorists to the general body of Muslims- it’s logically absurd. Do you understand now? I wasn’t putting down Muslims in any way; to the contrary, I was defending them from those who hear about a terrorist act in the name of Islam and then assume all Muslims are terrorists. There is no logic or truth or intelligence, frankly, in that. When people associate me and my faith with psycho polygamists groups, it makes me want to set the record straight- these groups have NOTHING to do with us and they haven’t for over a century! Someone commented above that Joseph Smith is evil because one of his “fruits” are these psycho polygamist ranches. GIVE ME A BREAK! This is another prime example of the kind of poor reasoning that drives me crazy! If we were to adopt and follow this kind of reasoning, then we’d have to assume that Jesus Christ himself was evil because of the many criminals that have lived over the centuries who have professed to be Christians and then done terrible things. What about the Crusaders for starters? Were they justified in their actions just because they called themselves Christians? And, does their terrible deeds mean that Jesus Christ is evil since they called themselves Christians? I think we can do better than this, people. I think it’s high time we all opened our minds a bit and were a little bit slower to damn the whole world just because the whole world believes a bit differently than us… If anyone would like to continue a private conversation, please email me at: anzianohansen@yahoo.com. I don’t have time to sort out but one confused person at a time I’m afraid…there’s just way too many people that have misconceptions about my faith, and it doesn’t help when there are people out there doing whatever they can to fight against our Church, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. If you believe that the teachings and work of Joseph Smith have even an ounce of evil in them, or even if you do not believe that he was actually a Prophet of God, but you’re curious to hear why 13 million highly educated people do (members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are more educated on average than any other people under the sun except for Jewish people), email me and I’ll try to explain my position.
- Posted by ShaunOne other comment/response to those that say Joseph Smith was evil because these psycho polygamist sects exist today: These cults are NOT MORMON- their ancestors were EXCOMMUNICATED from our faith a century ago. A careful read of the Bible indicates that when a people rebel against God OR his true servants, instead of a blessing, they receive a cursing. Think about what happened to the Jewish nation shortly after their general rejection of Christ himself. Think about the destiny of the Roman empire after it had perverted Christianity. The same fate awaits those who pervert Mormonism, which is nothing but 1st Century Christianity restored to the earth through Christ himself. These polygamist sects are among the most cursed people on the face of the planet. Why? Because they rejected a true Prophet of God. Jesus Christ ended polygamy long ago, and he directed this to occur through his Prophet. Those who rebelled against this Prophet rebelled against the Lord and therefore they have been cursed and dwindled in unbelief and they have been lead by Satan astray and even to the commission of the abuses and crimes that we are witnessing now. The fact that these groups exist actually ADDS evidence to the idea that True Prophets have lead the main body of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints from the beginning. When people listen to their counsel (and not to the counsel of of breakaway apostate psycho false prophets), they are blessed exceedingly. Look at the statistics at adherents.com to see how blessed the main body of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is today. The active members of our Church statistically are among the happiest, healthiest, most educated, most prosperous, and most religious people on the face of the earth. [A multitude of studies have shown that as people tend to get more education, they tend to become less religious. Only with regard to the Mormons is this untrue. As we get educated, we become MORE religious, active, and steadfast in our faith. Why, because truth is truth- and it “tastes” like truth whether it is arrived at scientifically or whether it is given directly to us from God through the power of the Holy Ghost.]
- Posted by ShaunOne more thing and then that’s it unless someone emails me (anzianohansen@yahoo.com): I’m weary of people calling members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints racists. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. People distort and take out of context what Joseph Smith and other said regarding race, but the reality is, we as a Church were anti-slavery before it was popular in the North prior to the Civil War! Check the history books. Joseph Smith prophesied, and I quote, that the black people of America would soon “take the shine off the shoes [of those they now serve as slaves]” because of their intelligence, ability to work hard, and their strong faith in the Lord. Joseph Smith prophesied exactly where and when the Civil War would begin and he stated that it would start over the slave question, he himself having always supported complete abolition from the beginning and warned the United States of impending destruction because of their gross sins against eachother including against the black race. It’s ironic that some of the fiercest opposition the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints receives is from Baptist Preachers from the “Bible Belt,” many of whose grandfathers were slave and plantation owners. Rather than listening to these “Christians” who will preach to you for your money, if you want to know what our Church believes about African Americans or the black race in general, you should ask one of the hundreds of thousands of them in our Church; more people are joining our Church of the African or black race than just about any other, and they now hold high positions within our Church, including positions of Bishop, Stake President, Area Authority, and General Authority. Joseph Smith taught from the Book of Mormon which teaches that all men are created equal.
- Posted by ShaunIn 1847, in Winter Quarters Nebraska (a Mormon town at that time) was the location where Mormons coming from the eastern United States, and from Europe, would stop and camp for the Winter. Once spring came they would load up their hand-carts and cross the Great Plains on their way to the Salt Lake Valley in what later became Utah. Tens of thousands of Mormons made this trip. In 1847, in Winter Quarters, a half-black/half-Native American Mormon Elder named William McCary seduced a number of white Mormon women, claiming he was an “Indian Prophet”, and that he was Adam and Peter reincarnated, and telling each of the white Mormon women they were Eve reincarnated. He became known as “Black Pete”. He was soon excommunicated. At that time “amalgamation” between the white and black races was considered by just about all white Americans (including white Mormons) as an abomination before the LORD, and the reason why the LORD destroyed the world via the Great Flood of Noah.Soon after the “Black Pete” affair, Brigham Young reversed himself and accepted the “Curse of Cain Doctrine” (Negroes are the children of Cain and inherit the mark of Cain) and the “Less Valiant Doctrine” (Negroes were less valiant in the War in Heaven and as punishment were born Negroes) of the Pratt brothers. All Black Mormon males were banned from the Priesthood (except for Eljah Abel and his descendants), and all Black Mormons were “banned” from Mormon Temples. This “ban” lasted until June 8th, 1978. The “ban” on receiving the Priesthood and in receiving the Higher Ordinances (Endowments and Sealings) in Mormon Temples is known as “The Priesthood-Ban Policy”. Together, the Curse of Cain Doctrine and the Priesthood-ban Policy is referred to as “The Curse of Cain Legacy”.
- Posted by KevinShaun, I understand what you are saying and you make a good PR rep for your church, but how do you get around the fact that blacks were denied the priesthood until the late 1970’s? I still see no black faces in the Tabernacle Choir or on the stage during General Conference.
The plain truth is that people in areas where the internet is not available (not just Africa) are the only places that the LDS faith is still having positive growth. Also, the 13 million members that the LDS church claims includes any member who has ever been baptized and counts them up until the 110th anniversary of their birth, whether they are dead or alive. In other words, the LDS church counts dead people as live, active members in order to bolster its numbers and seem larger than it really is.
Not to mention the poor retention rates in Mexico. There is enormous disparity between the numbers the LDS church claims and those who claim the faith when the census rolls around.
There is a pattern of ongoing dishonesty. Why would a church need to spend so much time trying to pretend not to be racist if they did not have a history of racial discrimination. Up until the late 1970s, black members had to have white members perform all ordinance in their place. In other words, a black man had to let a white man bless his children, pass him the sacrament, and perform marriages for black/black couples.
Obfuscation does not clear up the PR problem. It just makes Mormons look worse.
And for the others who attack the press for reporting on the LDS church’s PR problem, here’s a hint: It doesn’t help you look more mainstream when you do that.
- Posted by T-BoneSome people get it and some people are blinded by their own assumptions.
As a Mormon, I cringe at hearing the crimes committed at YFZ camp/community. Child abuse in any form is intolerable amongst all people.
Let our prayers be for those who suffer, in Texas and any other part of the world.
Now go serve your neighbor as you would serve God.
- Posted by ACEFirst of all, you CANNOT separate the ‘fundamentalist’ Mormons from the mainstream LDS church. What they practice is closer to the true’ church than the mainstreams practices.
A previous comment stated:
“These people in Texas are in no way akin to the actual Mormons, nor does their style of polygamy in any way resemble the polygamy of the 1800’s Mormon church.”
I suggest this reader bypass the constant ‘advice’ of their church leaders to “avoid anti-Mormon writings” and actually learn what their church is REALLY all about. ‘Anti-Mormons’ can lead you back to your own LDS website, doctrines, writings and comments from church leaders that will enlighten the average LDS member who practices the same ‘obedience’ required of the FLDS. Read you church writings, listen to you leaders, and note how many times the word ‘OBEDIENCE’ comes up. Then take a tally of how many people have been disciplined or excommunicated when they did not OBEY.
As for the Texas cult not in any way resembling the church of the 1800’s…PULEEEEEZE!!!
Look Joseph Smith’s family line up on your own familysearch.com genealogy website and count his wives. Then go do a search of the wives of Joseph Smith and read their journals, acknowledged by the church as part of their history.
Helen Mar Kimball, a 14 year old LITTLE GIRL and one of Joseph’s ‘wives’, was ‘given’ to Joseph by her father essentially as a trade off because Joseph wanted Kimball’s wife. Kimball couldn’t bring himself to give Joseph his wife so the couple sacrificed their 14 year old daughter instead. Joseph Smith was, and there is documented PROOF, an adulterer, a pedophile, a fraud. It is all in their own church history.
Joseph was the original Warren Jeff’s and the LDS church still sustains him as a prophet and defends every slimy thing he did, hides the truth of it’s history from it’s members, lies about everything from it’s history to it’s finances to it’s membership (12 million MY EYE!!!). That number includes all the inactive members, members who have walked away from it’s lies, the member’s it refuses to take off of it’s rolls without a battle and most despicably, uses numbers from third world countries where they baptized people who have no clue what they are getting into and most never really get involved beyond the baptism. But they still count in the eyes of the church so they can continue to propagate the myth that it is the fastest growing church. Total BS and PR spin. And yes, there is plenty of PROOF of this for anyone who cares to really investigate.
Of course, most practicing LDS members refuse to do just that and continue to chant “I KNOW that the church is true, I KNOW that Joseph Smith was a prophet…” just as they all have been taught to do without question since they were old enough to talk. Nope, no ‘cult’ here.
Read the Young Women’s manual on the LDS site where you will find the quote ” you will learn to OBEY your Bishop…” This church may not be AS abusive as the FLDS, but they are not far behind. Members are pounded constantly with instructions to OBEY the Priesthood holders, and let’s not forget the famous Dallin Oaks quote…”It is not right to criticize the leaders of the church, even if the criticism is true.” And before any indignant LDS members start going off with the rote reply that it was taken out of context in the PBS interview, the entire transcript IN context is available on their site. YES HE DID MEAN EXACTLY WHAT HE SAID!
The LDS church is as corrupt and controlling as they come. The only real difference is that while the leaders of the polygamous sects are religious fanatics and their corruption and abuse stems from that, the LDS leaders are in it for the money and conform to society because it allows them keep their scheme going. They control the churches purse strings and sit pretty while their ‘flock’ becomes addicted to anti-depressants to cope with their cognitive dissonance and repeatedly wins Utah the honor as the state with the highest use of antidepressant drugs. Who needs alcohol, cigarettes and sex when you are in an antidepressant fog!
And lastly, for anyone who still believes that the LDS is not a HARMFUL ‘cult’, look near your local high schools and count how many LDS churches are situated nearby so that they can coax our youth into their cult. Then take a look at what these same youth endure in the name of God when they are sent on those all important missions here:
http://www.lds4u.com/Missionaries/rules. htm
Look up the guidelines for cult behavior and compare it with this list. RESEARCH what the church is REALLY all about. And whatever you do, DON’T ask a MEMBER of the LDS church, they are the last ones who know or will ADMIT what their church really is. The robo