Comments on: Clock ticking as Vatican calls Catholic rebels’ bluff Religion, faith and ethics Sat, 23 Apr 2016 23:25:07 +0000 hourly 1 By: Tito Edwards Wed, 25 Jun 2008 22:09:44 +0000 To add to the confusion, Cardinal Hoyos constantly says that the SSPX are not ‘in schism’, but later on calls them ‘schismatic in nature’.

Yeah, my expression exactly, “huh?”

By: Tom Heneghan Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:20:34 +0000 Gandalf,

You write about some supposedly “extremely moldy argument that the Society is in schism.” There is nothing moldy about an argument that fits the situation. The Random House Unabridged Dictionary defines schism as:

a. a formal division within, or separation from, a church or religious body over some doctrinal difference.
b. the state of a sect or body formed by such division.
c. the offense of causing or seeking to cause such a division.

Archbishop Lefebvre was excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church in 1988 after ordaining four bishops (including Bishop Fellay) against the orders of the Vatican. The Vatican confirmed they had been excommunicated. The deeper reason for the split was the SSPX’s refusal to accept the decisions of the Second Vatican Council.

What part of this does not fit the definition of schism?

By: The Truth Is... Wed, 25 Jun 2008 07:15:24 +0000 Mumbo-jumbo, power games, and facile demands from an ex brown shirt?

Just proves my belief that the Catholic church is morally bankrupt.

A church riddled with bigotry, hypocrisy, spite, malice, greed, control freakery, persecution and clandestine plotting and dark machinations.

Deus ex machina? No. God has nothing to do with it. God, if he existed, would have smited the Catholic church long ago.

The Catholic church is principally a money-making organisation with an empire of poor subscribers who are robbed of their freewill to use, for example, condoms.

It also promulgates persecution of homosexuals and anyone who does not agree with their churches edicts.

They also deny priests rights to get married or even to be homosexual. Like they smell the coffee?

No wonder with a disreputable history drenched in the blood of the people the church has had murdered, vicitimised and tortured. One of the Catholic church’s favourite punishments for those who denied its supremacy, was to be tossed screaming onto a huge bonfire – sometimes sevaral poor souls at a time.

It also supported slavery and gave a nod of approval to the German fascist government – even after it knew about the death camps.

Popes are used to getting their own way, as any dictatorial king would be.

And that is what the Catholic church is all about: a kingdom run by big money and a divide and conquor ethos.

Anyone who is or is thinking of being, a Catholic, should have their head examined!

And as for Tony Blair…

By: Gandalf Wed, 25 Jun 2008 05:47:59 +0000 I do not know Tom Heneghan or Andrea Tornielli, but they take the usual and by now extremely moldy argument that the Society is in schism and that this–at this particular juncture, through this historical event without precedence–will be the last chance we have to heal the schism. If they knew how long we have had to endure such condescending offal, they might think twice before writing it.

If indeed Rome has offered Bishop Fellay anything really “new,” we shall of course hear about it in due course. But I doubt–as all the faithful who stay with the Church through the Society should doubt–that there is anything new under the sun. No, I don’t think so. Rome is offering again a prelature, and that all the Society need do is accept Vatican II and the validity of the New Mass to enter into “full communion” which is the Pearl of Great Price (!). What right-thinking person could turn down such an agreement?

They pretend in their current farce that by criticizing Vatican II and the Novus Ordo we are criticizing the pope, as in the pope’s person. But this we have never done. We rather recognize the right to criticize the actions of the pope because the are objectively sinful and scandalous to the faithful. We criticize Vatican II because it has gone against the faith that was always preached and practiced for 20 centuries. We criticize the Novus Ordo because it is an amalgam of the most liberal Protestant liturgies. We understand that by criticizing so we do not detract from the pope’s person or his office, but rather we uphold the papacy while upholding the faith for which it was instituted.

This traditional Roman Catholic (and I hardly think I am alone) will certainly NOT take the offer. It is poison. All we need to do is accept Vatican II? Vatican II will be interpreted in the light of Catholic Tradition–not this new “living tradition.” This will happen at some future date when Rome has condemned again the tenets of modernism and the Holy Office can sift the decrees of Vatican II–probably during Vatican III. Do not give me bread infested with bubonic plague when I ask for the Blessed Sacrament. And do not tell me your Ordinary Rite is at all Ordinary in my Church. It was heretically composed and illegally imposed, and it will die as all purely human things will die. It is possibly valid (depending on circumstances), but certainly not Catholic.

No, the Society of St. Pius X cannot and will not accept an agreement of this kind when there is no agreement whatsoever in doctrine. When Rome is again preaching the Roman Catholic faith, then the Society will submit to Rome.