Comments on: SSPX “answer without response” to Vatican ultimatum http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/ Religion, faith and ethics Sat, 23 Apr 2016 23:25:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: philip Sieve http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/comment-page-1/#comment-5702 Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:42:37 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/#comment-5702 If I have slandered, calumniated or otherwise backbit anyone, esp. clergy, I apologize. I get very irritated about all this. Jesus said not to be lukewarm. Phlegmatics may be naturally inclined to spiritual sloth, but I think a great many were disaffected by the imprudent pastoral experimentation that still has not worked.

The reason why is that the Mass is experimented with. You can have rosary rallies galore (to which the devout ones, not the majority of Mass-goers these days, will attend or their kids), but if priests are playing director of the Mass as merely an inspiration for his own musical, there will continue to be problems and not just for Catholics. There is a Twilight Zone show, or one like it, where a man does obsessive-compulsive actions that keep the world running–and it stops when he is sedated by his psychiatrist. The Masses around the world, our priest says, keeps the world in order if well done and causes disasters if not done properly (matter and form) and with respect as well (no electric guitar and drums version–even if they played a traditional song with those). In this case, of course, it’s not just the person helping keep the world as much in order as can be done in a fallen world, but God is in charge of the world as the priest is not a magician.

I think the Vatican’s ecumenical program with dissenters is like how many modern church-going-on-Sundays-only parents will do, they will not face the libertine kid and his problems and will even practically acknowledge his/her “lovers” or friends, with whom he/she commits fornications, in order to not lose him/her. They may think acceptance will keep him/her from doing something more extreme. Maybe they don’t have the know-how and feel helpless.

The less-afflicted son/daughter will be more of a headache (possibly due to his/her John the Babtist-esque resistance biting their consciences unless they’ve gone to the liberation theologists from luxuries or leaders) and will be expected to be around. The SSPX not only didn’t leave their space physically, but only recognized them as parents in the technical, but not any practical, sense. They may have even been muscled out in a hot war or cold one without having been kicked out and then split in anger and then practically split in anger. We see the dangers of rage when we see what happened in the SSPX wake and that cannot be sanctioned, but we see the dangers of letting the liberation theologist clergy and religious and those clergy who just fly under the heresy radar’s reach by slipping in irregularities, thus eroding any piety their confused flock after the ’60s had and religious who bring in government elected clergy from China. Where are the bishops (or recent Popes, when Catholic schools have become modernist and there’s bishops who do a little less than trying to ordain women priests)? If they think just tightening restrictions at the seminary, welcoming obedient Latin Mass clergy and having some rosary rallies will fix things, they’ve got another thing coming.

As is predicted about a Great Awakening for everyone before a 3 24 hour night chastisement, the bishops need to warn their clergy who play around with the Mass and then start giving those who are disinterested very uninteresting and uninfluential other things to do or just laicize them. This is not about kicking your son’s gay “lover” out of the house and wishing your son good luck if he goes too (and hopefully praying for him and trying to talk him back with no compromises); this epidemic effects families whose kids could fall to the gay or life of violence and it effects order in the world. Tough love, a la Pope Pius X, I believe, is in order here. If he was a hater, how was he a saint? This naturally should be easier for men (I know, but more men vote Republican even today as women are naturally more affected by feelings liberals play to and they fulfill a place there when men are being mensch as church leaders and family leaders).

]]>
By: Robin http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/comment-page-1/#comment-5304 Sun, 27 Jul 2008 02:01:42 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/#comment-5304 Today we have “the mess” – molesting priests, feminists, lay persons doing the job of the priests and sisters, church closings, school closings, loss of vocations all in the “mainstream church” wheras the chapels and schools of SSPX grow in number. Now why is that?

]]>
By: Robin http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/comment-page-1/#comment-5303 Sun, 27 Jul 2008 01:59:16 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/#comment-5303 After 2,000 years of tradition that grew our Holy Mother Church into the largest church in the world. Rightfully so as it is the ONLY Church that can be traced to Jesus Christ. Modernists commemdere a council and dismantle tradition thus damaging our Holy Mother Church.

]]>
By: JM http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/comment-page-1/#comment-5242 Mon, 21 Jul 2008 21:29:22 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/#comment-5242 CKay- look at their website sspx.org for information on chapels in the U.S. and abroad. They may not have everything exactly right, but I trust them over molesting priests, misleading bishops, and Protestantized masses any day.

I have attended an SSPX mass for nearly 20 years. During this time I have also visited local (western U.S.) as well as other locations for Novus Ordo masses in varying circumstances. Before I have attended each N.O. mass I have begged God for clarity, for some sign that the mass I was about to attend would be about Him. The last time I attended the N.O. mass I prayed this prayer- what a sad blow for my soul when I watched the deacon eucharistic minister drop a consecrated host on the ground and fumble about carelessly in retrieving the Sacred Species! Flashbacks of catechism lessons bolted into my mind- recalling the adoration one owes to that Precious Host and the reverence a priest should have towards it. But how could I be surprised when I watched a group of men and woman from the laity take Our Lord into their unconsecrated hands and distribute it themselves? I cannot receive communion in a church so blatantly irreverent. How is the SSPX supposed to achieve unity when it is now the norm to do so many once anti-Catholic things? St. Tarcisius, a young boy in ancient times, allowed himself to be martyred rather than let the wrong hands touch the Sacred Hosts that he carried…
My prayer is that God can show the correct way to unity- keeping our sacred truths and traditions in mind, and not allowing ecumenism to cloud true charity. What good does it do to encourage falsehood? Or to equate truth with error? Does that encourage souls to Truth, to God, to salvation?

]]>
By: CKay http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/comment-page-1/#comment-5060 Mon, 14 Jul 2008 02:04:59 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/#comment-5060 Prior to Vatican II, The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass was said in Latin, and I could go anywhere in the world and go into any Roman Catholic Church and I was at home, Latin was the Universal language of the Church.

Holy Eucharist was not to be touched by any hands except
the consecrated hands of a Priest, I understood that Jesus was present. I knew and felt the very real presence of Jesus.

I never felt like a robot, I felt like I was part of the Mystical Body of Christ.

I was confirmed and I believed I was a soldier of Christ,
that I would defend the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, and hold to the traditions that I was taught.

Now it has been over 40 years since I have been to or found a Traditional Mass to attend, I have missed the
intimacy.

I didn’t understand why the Traditional Mass could only be said with permission, why would a priest have to ask permission to say The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, if it was Holy and Sacred than how was it not Holy and Sacred now. Pope Benedict says it was Sacred than and is Sacred
now, still why was it withheld so many don’t know about it and never experienced it. Also why the destruction of the Altar rails, the move of Tabernacle into the room on the side. Prior to the Novus Ordo or New Order what they
have done to the inside of the churches would have been
called descecration.

Anyway how do I reach these SSPX priests?

]]>
By: Iggy http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/comment-page-1/#comment-4956 Thu, 10 Jul 2008 12:11:13 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/#comment-4956 I’ve always been appalled by the lack of humility of SSPX. Once a group of people believes they are in the right and the entire universe is wrong, dialogue becomes impossible. Post-Council liturgical and doctrinal excesses have greatly harmed the Roman Catholic Church but now we are coming back from it. Unlike other churches, the RC Church must remain consistent in its teachings, especially when the world is going mad.

]]>
By: Keith http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/comment-page-1/#comment-4797 Thu, 03 Jul 2008 01:08:15 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/#comment-4797 The sspx is a demented cult with their leaders (wolves) antagonizing over their blind flock of brainwashees to further their agenda of hatred while promoting sixteenth century practices in or for a world that died long ago! Will Rome ever stop trying to deal with these agents of satan and let them perish as they so deserve!It’s never been about “Latin Mass” as they all claim, but rather a sick idealism of a return to fear and 14th century slaughter of everyone not catholic and submitting to them lords of Tradition!Yep, that’s what Jesus wanted!

]]>
By: Lori Mather http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/comment-page-1/#comment-4770 Wed, 02 Jul 2008 01:31:14 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/#comment-4770 It has been said here that SSPX is arrogant. How is it arrogant to refuse compromise where long-standing Catholic teaching is in question? Bishop Fellay and the bishops hold their ground, staying true to those tenants held by SSPX since the group’s inception – formed to keep the traditional teachings in tact SOMEWHERE in the Church. (Hasn’t Our Lady said that there would be a small remnant of Faithful?) Because they’ve done so, the Traditional Mass of the Ages has been brought back to “regular” use, admittedly never abrogated – a lie perpetuated for about 40 years. Those of us who love this Mass owe them a debt of gratitude, at the very least.
As for them being minions of Satan, why is it so difficult to imagine that it may, in truth, be the Vatican and Church hierarchy that has been infiltrated by the evil one and his demons? Judge the tree by its fruit – mostly rotting, leaving a barren, unproductive, bend-with-every-wind emaciated twig with dwindling roots that cannot truly nourish any of its branches. Yes, the Holy Ghost will guide the true Church, and yes, the Holy Father is under His wing (notice, no ex cathedra statements on faith and morals – requisites for infallibility – for many years), but all of us are human, and we all have choices to make. Seems to me SSPX is making the right ones, remaining true to the Faith of the Saintsm, praying that the Pope will allow them to do just that without having to “give in” on some very vital issues.
Oh, and BTW – I believe Saint Padre Pio received permission to continue to say the Traditional Mass, never to offer anything Novus Ordo. What’s good enough for him is good enough for me.

]]>
By: Brian Charles http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/comment-page-1/#comment-4749 Tue, 01 Jul 2008 14:19:09 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/#comment-4749 While we should of course all pray for a successful resoluation to this conflict, it is not accurate to portray the Catholic “right” and the Catholic “left” as both being of the same ilk.

As Dietrich von Hildebrand, the great philosopher whom Pope Pius XII called “the 20th Century Doctor of the Church,” it may be unfortunate that those of the “right” stick solely to St. Thomas’s philosophy and theology and shun all others, but it is not heretical. Those of the left are both heretics and schismatics. And despite what Reuters keeps saying, the Catholic Church has repeatedly said now that the SSPX is not in schism. I have more than one letter to that effect from the PCED, including all of the interviews where Cardinal Castrillon has stated as much.

Furthermore, the news coverage and the commentators, esp. Mr. Tom of Reuters, all going to very surprised when Step Two of this process, outlined now for several years by the SSPX, takes place shortly–the lifting of the decrees of excommunication.

Just because there is acrimony and disagreement on some non-essential principles of Vatican II (religious liberty and ecumenism are NOT DOGMA!) does not mean the SSPX will not be brought back into full communion with the Church.

The excommunications will be lifted soon, and then headlines like “schismatic,” “Catholic rebels,” etc. etc. will have to be replaced with the joy of full unity.

The Pope knows with whom he wants to do combat with the dictators of relativism. He knows the good that the SSPX and their laymen formed by them, can do for the good of the Church.

It won’t be an embrace of the nuts “on the left” any time soon. We also need to watch that we do not use political labels in the Church, as they often do not fit. Those on the left do not profess the Catholic Faith. Those of the SSPX, do profess the Catholic Faith–whole and entire–without the accretions of the misrepresented “doctrines” of the Second Vatican Council.

]]>
By: Jon Miles http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/comment-page-1/#comment-4735 Mon, 30 Jun 2008 23:37:36 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/28/sspx-answer-without-response-to-vatican-ultimatum/#comment-4735 I am a convert to the Catholic Church, and I did it because that’s where the total truth is. To those of you that are cradle catholics, you need to study more before making these ridiculous claims you’ve made. These are referring to your claim of “traditionalist”, which to you means someone who is too strict and not tolerant of other opinions. Wrong!
Anybody who calls themselves “catholic” needs to pass on the whole truth to future generations. This you will not find in the renewed church. The things that have happened since the 60’s happened during the “reformation” by Martin Luther and his pride. Look it up! Vernacular masses, communion in the hand, all churches have some of the whole truth, etc. Find a book which is about the First Vatican council, and you will see for yourself.
Since the 60’s, vocations have plummeted, as well as the faithful. Some people go to church for the readings and the singing. If you’re not going for the Holy Eucharist containing the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ, you’d be better off staying home. And you need to examine yourself to see if you believe this, since many priests don’t!
Any one who does or says anything opposite to the centuries/old teachings of the Church of Jesus Christ is WRONG! Period. Even popes are’t exluded from this. They are still the pope, but they are bad, disobedient ones. Study, and study long and hard. Maybe your viewpoints will somehow change. Say the prayer to the Holy Spirit, and by this I mean the WHOLE prayer, to help you along.
Christ told the Apostles to teach ALL that he taught. If we are not getting ALL that he taught, we are being mislead. Help yourself and your children.
Ignorance of the entire truth is NOT an excuse.
Pontius Pilate asked, “What is truth”.
Even Judas said, “I have betrayed innocent blood”.
Don’t be a Judas!

]]>