FaithWorld

Bishop Gene Robinson reflects on ever present threats

July 15, 2008

Bishop Gene Robinson preaches in London, 13 July 2008/Alessia PierdomenicoSitting in the sun-kissed grounds of a London church, U.S.Bishop Gene Robinson reflected in sombre mood on what it meant to be the first openly gay bishop in the 450-year history of the Anglican church.

Robinson, a divorced father of two, has received death threats and wore a bulletproof vest at his consecration back in 2003. Two uniformed police officers stood guard last month as he entered into a civil partnership with his longtime partner. He was heckled when preaching in London over the weekend.

“I take the threats very seriously, I have to,” he said. “But I am not interested in being a martyr, I just want to be a bishop.”

Robinson’s visit to Britain concides with the Lambeth Conference, the ten-yearly meeting of bishops from the worldwide Anglican Communion, but he has not been invited to attend. So he has several speaking engagements outside of the conference, including a sermon at Saint Mary’s Church in the Putney section of London on Sunday where he urged Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams to show firmer leadership and get conservative foes to tone down homophobic taunts.

In an interview with Reuters, there was no hiding the disappointment in his voice when talking about Williams’ decision not to invite him. And he repeated that he felt it was high time Williams took a stand against Conservative opponents who taunted him with homophobic mockery.

“There is no place in the Christian Church for someone to say Satan has entered the church with my consecration or that gay people are lower than dogs,” the 61-year-old bishop said.

Bishop Gene Robinson preaches in London, 13 July 2008/Alessia Pierdomenico“You cannot say those kind of things about gays and lesbians people and then be shocked when there is violence against them,” he said.

Clearly exasperated with a navel-gazing church obsessed with its own internal problems, he said human sexuality was an important issue but added “I would agree with many Africans that there are so many more important things to be dealing with.”

But he was clearly proud of what he had achieved in trying to sweep hypocrisy away, saying: “I would like to think I have raised the issue of how destructive ‘Don’t ask, Don’t tell’ can be.”

Comments
70 comments so far | RSS Comments RSS

Business as usual for Ubishops. Haven’t read the good
book since…………..ever? You wonder why you get so
much greif from people when you don’t know what is right
or wrong. Too bad. It’s your bed….lie in it. Alone.

Fight all you want to so you can feel better about your-
selves while you air to the whole world how gross you are. People watch what you do all day long. What a
picture!

Posted by al | Report as abusive
 

I can’t help but repect Gene Robinson for his openess and honesty in the midst of Anglican hypocrisy and homophobia. It is a bit of a shame though that such an otherwise intelligent person is wasting time with religion at all, when there are real issues out in the world someone with a social calling could be working on. He should the church worry about what their imaginary friend thinks about sexuality and leave them to it.

Posted by steve bowen | Report as abusive
 

He needs to be sacked.

Posted by tyler | Report as abusive
 

What the heck has homophobic got to do with anything, that expression in itself is an attack on the very word of God. God is very clear in scripture about homosexuality. If there are fellings or urges to have sex with a man then this calls for what is known in scripture as self control. Also simple obedience to the word and just abstaining from anything that the bible tells us to abstain from…and homosexuality is one of them. If being driven by a sexual feeling is all that drive and motivates a person above and beyond our our good friend and councilor, Holy Ghost…then are we surprised that god was so sick of those in sodom and gomorah that they were no longer needed. We should take heed from this example in scripture and keep a heart of daily repentance and simply stay obedient to how the bible tells us to live. There is more power in the name of Jesus than any other force that is known to man for us to live and love by. Thank you for the opportunity for me to comment on this.

 

In what sense is a book that is mysogynistic, homophobic dictatorial and retributional good!??

Posted by steve bowen | Report as abusive
 

Will GOD will ever forgive you westerners, i wonder.

Posted by Bobby | Report as abusive
 

With regard to the comments made by Clive Watson (Below)

If the bible is so clear on homosexuality it is also clear that slavery is acceptable.

Leviticus 25:44-46: “Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.

Exodus 21:1-4: “If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve”

Jesus has nothing to say about homosexuality, except that we should all love each other. It’s strange that so many Christians are filled by hate, yet they protest love. The bible is open to interpretation (and all other religions), that’s why there are so many different churches and so many religious wars!

My thoughts are: if you agree that the bible says that homosexuality is unacceptable, it must also be true that slavery is acceptable. I rest my case.

Posted by Adrian | Report as abusive
 

Oh crap could we please not have another article about Gene media-tart Robinson and his oh-look-at-moi unsourced, unamed unsubstantiated threats. It’s a mockery on those Christians who are truly suffering for their faith. Why doesn’t the media see the cognitive dissonance in a man who continues to bleat about being “a simple country bishop” and yet spends most of the time outside his own country talking about himself while his dioces shrinks and shrinks.

You get better sense from Roseanne Barr:

Never once in my 54 years have I ever once heard a gay or lesbian person who’s politically active say one thing about anything that was not about them. They don’t care about minimum wage, they don’t care about any other group other than their own self because you know, some people say being gay and lesbian is a totally narcissistic thing and sometimes I wonder.

I’ve never heard any of them say anything except for “accept me ‘cause I’m gay.”

It’s just, it’s screwed.

And you’re better off heeding Camille Paglia’s warning about the Gay Inquisition and the media’s complicity in it.

Posted by saint | Report as abusive
 

Clive Watson

Why should anybody be concerned what the bible says about anything? The old testements are fables of a neolithic tribe formalised as a self agrandised history, the morality is indicative of the time and we are better than that.
Homosexuality is now known to have a strong genetic and developmental component. At the risk of commiting the naturalistic fallacy even if religious apologists can’t see it as “good”, they should at least be tolerant of its existence. If god makes someone homosexual (which is the implication for believers)he presumeably meant then to live that way.

Posted by steve bowen | Report as abusive
 

Interesting how Gene Robinson now wants to play the ‘victim’.
He left his wife for another man.
Most people would call that adultery and imomoral.
Yet the Episcopal Church decided to make him a spiritual leader!

Let’s call black white, and that which is immoral, good.
And let’s when people object, cast ourselves as a victim.

Posted by James | Report as abusive
 

I’ve been in the Episcopal Church all my life and I can tell you this issue has destroyed the Church. Tear the pages out of your Bible that you don’t agree with and you might as well believe that the whole book is a lie. The more these twisted ideas get shoved into my face the more I will push back. I will not be mowed down by those that turn wrong into right just to please their own desires. If someone wants to “update” God’s word then let them start their own Church and stop trying to bring down a Church that has been already established. When Jesus stopped the crowd from stoning the woman to death for adultery he didn’t tell the woman to continue with her sinful lifestyle. He said go and sin no more….

 

………”Satan has entered the church with my consecration”……….from his own lips!

Posted by Sandy | Report as abusive
 

Is the constant taunting and destructive language in any way beneficial, or an appropriate illustration of the mainstream opposition to the Bishop’s lifestyle? Certainly not.

I find it ironic, however, that Bishop Robinson shuns the concept of physical martyrdom, yet openly acknowledges and embraces this psychological gauntlet as if the whole world ought to pity his ordeal.

The bottom is simply that his sin, just as any other sin, is evil in the sight of God. It is against the very nature of whoe He is. Those that would emphasize Bishop Robinson’s certain sin over others are ignorant of God’s holiness; all sin is detestable.

But rememeber; just as we cannot describe this man, or any that choose this way of life, as “lower than dogs”, we must remember that before God we are all filthy, in need of redemption. As long as Bishop Robinson refuses to recognize that spiritual corrosion, then he will continue to stand in error before a Holy God.

Posted by Jonathan | Report as abusive
 

Jesus loves all people even Gay folks. Gays are not lower than dogs, nor has Satan has entered the Church but a Gay person should not be at the helm of Christ’s Church. Homosexuality is a infirmity like being born blind or deaf. I frankly would not want to be counseled by someone who does not understand the intricate relationship between a man and a women. I would not fly on a plane with a blind pilot nor will I sail in a Church with a Gay person at the wheel. I am coming from the background of a biologist and a creature attracted to its own sex is not a working model, good people!

Posted by Mrs. Boyle | Report as abusive
 

James says: “He left his wife for another man.”

Did he? All the information I’ve found says they met well after the divorce.

Clive watson says: “If there are fellings or urges to have sex with a man . . .”

I’m going to stop you there, because you’re making a common mistake when discussing homosexuality. It isn’t just about sex any more than heterosexuality is just about sex. That’s a piece of it, but it certainly isn’t the whole of the issue.

As for what the Bible says, I’m of the camp who say that it’s been mistranslated, misused, and misappropriated for some time.

Interesting that my anti-spam word is ‘love’.

 

Great comments RBP! I could not agree more. Did you see the video of Gene Robinson driven from the pulpit by people who stood up to him from the congregation. I wish I could have been there!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7504472.st m

Posted by Mrs. Boyle | Report as abusive
 

Mrs. Boyle says: “I frankly would not want to be counseled by someone who does not understand the intricate relationship between a man and a women.”

So you wouldn’t be comfortable with a single bishop? How many persons of the opposite gender must a candidate date before he/she is acceptable? Is there an examination before ordination to help decide the candidate’s fitness for couples counseling?

How about priests who don’t have children? Would you be uncomfortable with someone who hasn’t raised children and therefore (by your reasoning) does not understand the intricate relationship between a parent and a child. Would it be better if we didn’t allow childless persons to be ordained? And how many children is enough? Should they be required to have at least one boy and one girl? Boys and girls are different, you know, so they’d better have experience with both.

(Of course that’s ridiculous. That’s my point.)

P.S. Being gay is not an infirmity.

 

Tonight I watched a fascinating movie entitled “Because the Bible Tells Me So” which details the clash between literalist religions and homosexuality. In it, Gene Robinson was profiled (along with many other stories). In curiousity, I googled his name and found this article and this discussion thread. I would encourage everyone to view this movie, although I am realistic to know that many of you are so entrenched in your position that you may not be open to seeing another point of view. In truth, we have more in common with others based on being simply human than we have that is different. Yet so many of us choose to put our attention on the differences—race, nationality, religion, sexual orientation—whatever it is that we focus on to make us be “us versus them”. Why must we have a “them” to judge negatively, to hate, to condemn? How can we switch our focus and attention from how we see we are different to more be on how we are alike? The irony really is that when we judge others, that says more about us than it does about the other person.

Posted by Rev Mark | Report as abusive
 

In all the arguing over Gene Robinson’s homosexuality, a number of important points are missed, sometimes deliberately! It is NOT a sin to a homosexual, to say but it is a sin to be a practising homosexual, that’s a simple biblical fact and the church is not ‘homophobic’ to point that out. Quite deliberately many of those supporting Gene Robinson will say that they are defending rights: just for once I would like to hear about responsibilities! The fact that a single hetrosexual man should not have sex is every bit as difficult for him as a homosexual not engaging is any sexual acts, but I don’t hear too many single hetrosexuals in the church screaming that they are being denied their rights!
I pray for Gene Robinson and those who support him.

Posted by Henry Gibson | Report as abusive
 

Henry Gibson says: “…to say but it is a sin to be a practising homosexual, that’s a simple biblical fact and the church is not ‘homophobic’ to point that out.”

Incorrect. There are plenty of questions on the veracity of the translation and interpretation of the clobber passages.

 

Wake up all ye misguided people who can’t seem to differentiate the downright savage from what is morally right.

Do we still, as the Old (and partly irrelevant) Testament states, ‘stone’ adulterers to death for their sins?

Do we still publicly hang six year old child thieves, as supported by the church – even though it indicates extreme savagery and barbarism?

Do we still ‘skin people’ alive as the Old Testament ascribes?

OF COURSE WE DON’T!!!

Get real folks – we move on to a more civilised way of living and the way the church has reformed it’s views on slavery (once supported by the churche), for example, shows that the church is often OUT of kilter with the doctrine of Jesus Christ. Life changes – we learn to be more civilised – more in kilter with Christ’s teachings and NOT old testament passe’ doctrine.

Too much quoting and bible bashing is a bad thing when it FAILS to pay any respect to the doctrine of Jesus Christ.

Do you not understand who Christ was?

Throw away your preaching of condemnation of gay and lesbian people – stop the hate language and the open season ethos where persecution is the logical result.

Hypocricy, cant and bigotry is what lays behind homophobia – as simple as that.

See the light and stop the persecution and hate of people who happen to be a little ‘different’.

Posted by The Truth Is... | Report as abusive
 

I don’t hate anyone but I don’t agree with the stance of Gay people on many issues and can’t condone the hedonistic behavior practiced by so many of them. I am of the Baby Boom generation and am not a puritan and I see what goes on. I know lesbians who go to big events and scream and yell about heterosexuals being”breeders” while the have their genitals pierced. I know of many Gay men with multiple partners who love to get in your face about it too. Sorry, enough it enough. I am a liberal but this stuff has all gone way too far. I am not a bigot either. HIV infection is jumping rapidly again in young men thanks to the laziness and promiscuity. I don’t care if you want to do these things but leave me out of it and leave the Church alone. Gene Robinson cares not for the Church he is selfish and conceited. His arrogance shows me he clearly is not even a Christian for their is nothing of Christ in the way he conducts himself. I am sick or the Pseudo-science saying people are born Gay. It’s not so. Most science shows it’s a set of factors that makes someone choose the same gender for a relationship. People who were abused as children tend to abuse children when they are parents. Should we except that as normal? Pedophiles are said to have a very strong attraction to children they can’t curb. Should we now except that as normal and let them molest children because the poor things can’t help it? NO!

Posted by Mrs. Boyle | Report as abusive
 

Dear Mrs Boyle

As a gay man, let me tell you that there are many things in my tribe that I don’t like either – I disagree with the “lesbian slander of ‘breeders’” and the promiscuity that seems to be more prevalent in my orientation group than in yours; but to all of a sudden declare that “enough is enough” and rage this campaign against “the gays” because of it, is not only unfortunate but also slightly misguided.

If I had to say “enough is enough” about the heterosexual world based on all of the government corruption, incompetent presidents sending countries to unnecessary war, business collapses based on fraud and incompetence – I could blame nearly all of the worlds current problems on “heterosexuals” and feel so much better about not really having a hand in any of them – can you see how flawed your argument is?

To call Gene Robinson ‘selfish’, ‘conceited’ and ‘arrogant’ makes you a judger. And if you go by the pure Word of God, He and He alone will judge. I have to wonder whether you’ve even met the man? If you haven’t all the more shame on you.

I’d also be interested in the course of your scientific claims that “most science shows it is a set of factors” and ‘isn’t genetic’. Sure, I think its a mix of nature versus nurture but I can tell you than neither I nor the vast majority on my gay friends were molested as children (as your post seems to imply), nor are we statistically more likely to molest ourselves. Genetic predisposition is an imperative in homosexuality; agruably as it also is for pediphilia and certainly as it is to be black. At one point in time all three of those things were on the wrong side of the law; currently only one is (and I would wager my last dollar that it stays that way). To use it as a “scare tactic” of “what next?” is both short-sighted and ill-advised.

My wish for you on this Sunday – as it is for everybody on everyday – is that we act out of love, live out of pease and say jack-shit about things that we know nothing about.

Posted by Dakin | Report as abusive
 

What I mean by enough is enough is I am not remaining quiet anymore. It was not a threat. I am fighting back for my rights and for the Church I love. I am sick of being pushed to the wall and of Gay issues dominating the Church is what I meant, Dakin. Gay people are a minority but that is all you hear about in church politics and I am good and sick of it. I am tired of the rude way many Gays act towards the Church as well. You seem like a well educated and very thoughtful person and I respect your very well thought out response. I have watched many interviews and short videos with Gene Robinson speaking and I stand by my observations on his character. The pulpit is no place for a personal fight or for one to constantly hack at ones parishioners about this topic. It is petty and self centered. I believe allot of Gay people would like to see the Church brought to its knees or even would like to destroy it from within. My Brother in Law and my cousin are Gay men and the things they say all the time are not lost on me. I know far more than you might think.

Posted by Mrs. Boyle | Report as abusive
 

I thought the use of the term “naval-gazing” was interesting. More properly, naval gazing is known as hesycas and is, to thebest of my knowledge, only practiced by Orthodox Christian’s, who do forbid homosexual conduct for all members of the Church, not just bishops. So, if the Anglican bishops really are beginning to practice hesycasm in an effor to obtain the Holy Spirit, Robinson might have something to fear.

 

Mrs. Boyle, the fact that you’re broad brushing an entire group of people because of two that you know is startling.
Please read over your last post and replace occurrences of the word “Gay” with “Colored”. That’s exactly the argument made half a century ago, and it was just as stupid then as it is today.

For what it’s worth, I’d like it if we didn’t have to talk about this issue too. There’s one way to achieve that, and it doesn’t include talk about how The Gays want to “destroy [the church] from within”.

 

Dear Mrs Boyle

Let me apologize on behalf of all Gays everywhere for the extent to which their plight has monopolized your life. I agree that it is both thoughtless and insensitive that they push their agenda at the cost of your peace-of-mind. They should complain about the discriminating tax and impossible immigration laws; about their lack of Constitutional protection or access to fair employment practices; the fact that they are not allowed fair medical visitation rights and are treated pretty much as secondary citizens of this country – they should complain about those things somewhere else. Somewhere where it doesn’t disturb the peace and is out of earshot of those who have all of these things.

You see Mrs Boyle, if I wanted to marry someone from a different country and still call the USA my home I could not; hell, I can’t even get married (which, contrary to popular belief is more about the legal equality than about anything else) and while I “live in sin” with my partner, I don’t get any of the tax breaks heterosexual spouses do, nor could we adopt kids together that would otherwise have no access to emotional stability and financial security. I can’t even visit my partner in hospital as I am not “family”.

Gay rights really are the last in the fight for full civil liberties for all. I’ll bet that Martin Luther King also had people call him arrogant, selfish and conceited. I bet many folks said that he was inappropriate to use his pulpit for his message and for sharing his dream. (Did you know that the first assassination attempt was by a black woman?) But it takes people like him and Gene to make the rest of the world sit up and take notice. I wonder where we would be as a civilized society had it not been for the guts and determination of MLK. I wonder whether we’ve ever thought about how really hard it must be for Gene to do what he is doing. Imagine that you had reached the amazing heights of being a bishop and then were uninvited to an international gathering of all bishops. Do you think Gene really wants to cause a racket because he likes the noise? I bet that this is one of the most painful times in his life; I bet that he would like nothing more than to go silently into the night and not have his face blazing across TV screens the world over.

But he does it – he does it because he sees it as his Christian duty to raise this type of awareness; this type of “enough is enough” noise. He wouldn’t be doing his job if he didn’t; he wouldn’t be true to himself if he laid low and “let someone else do it”. We are not doing our Christian jobs if all we do is look around for stones to cast at him; we are not really true to our kind if we didn’t want everybody to have what we have. True freedom; true protection; true equality.

But you’re right; enough is enough.

Posted by Dakin | Report as abusive
 

I know far more Gay men than just my Brother in Law and Cousin and my neighbors are lesbians. I hear the things they say all the time and I watch how they enjoy making other people squirm. I hear all the comments about how heterosexuals are breeders and how evil the Church is. I read hundreds of stories on line and I can tell you I find the Gay movement for the most part to be very unchristian. In an age where 50% of heterosexuals cohabitate it is ironic Gay people are so hung up on marriage. I am all for civil unions but a marriage is and always will be the joining of a man and a women and you can try all kinds of stunts but marriage is two opposites joining to create something new before God. You can’t have everything you want in life. People in the rest of the world understand that. Only spoiled brats in the West think they can rewrite history and defy natural laws. Jesus in anger turned over the tables of the money changers and people who defiled the temple and he will clear the Church of those who would twist his words for their own purposes.

Posted by Mrs. Boyle | Report as abusive
 

Mrs. Boyle said: “…[Jesus] will clear the Church of those who would twist his words for their own purposes.”

On this we agree. You have a lot to answer for.

 

Mrs Boyle

You extravagantly expose your sensationalist tendencies in order to prop-up your own prejudice and fevered adherence to stereotyping and myth making. Shame on you!

Gay men and Lesbians are not all the same and you have absolutely no moral ground to stand on when you preach discrimination and persecution based on lies, misinformation and cant.

And you extravagantly display a complete inability to understand the truth within the doctrine of Jesus Christ.

Mrs Boyle, you personify what’s wrong with the church and you and your kind have formed a boil on the doctrine of Jesus Christ that needs urgent lancing.

The poison you embody is an insult to what Jesus did for us!

Posted by The Truth Is... | Report as abusive
 

alot of people have said that at the time when the bible was written homosexuality was not understood, mem have loved men , and women loved women almost as old as the earth is , the book of genesis 19 shows sodom being destroyed because of homosexuality , let us take not the men tried to rape a prophet of God , rape is another question but yes! homosexuality existed, people have the right to be what they want to be on their honour and blood.but it is important not to think it is okay when it comes to the laws of God , you can join another faith, live the way you want but do it out side this faith that men have laid down their lives to preserve , let it be done on individual blood, spirt and soul. human beings have changed every law of God to fit their own rules its disheartning and sad but in conclusion let every man be a liar and God be true

 

lisa:

Odd that you think homosexuality was the reason for Sodom’s destruction, especially since the Bible says otherwise. (Ezk. 16:49-50)

Bishop Robinson is doing exactly what he should do. He’s defending the Church against those who would prefer it be exclusive and hate filled.

 

Of all the Gay people I have known over the past 30 years about 1% have stayed in monogamous relationships for over 5 years. HIV cases are on the steep rise again especially in young men. Show me how Gay people are not selfish? Show me how they live the lives Christ would have them live. Prove to me its about love not just sex? Sorry I just don’t see it. My own cousin cheated on his lover. Everyone knows the truth, Guys you fool only yourselves.

Posted by Mrs. Boyle | Report as abusive
 

Mrs. Boyle, I feel comfortable saying that you are the most bigoted person I’ve come across in YEARS. You’ve exposed your hypocrisy for everyone to see.

If it’s just the same, I’d appreciate it if you didn’t identify yourself as Christian anymore. Your demeanor here is antithetical to everything He stands for.

 

Mrs Boyle, I smell a rat and you are playing loose with the truth when you claim to have known lots of gay people. Rubbish and balderdash!

You are not, by your own language, anything near to being a Christian.

Preaching condemnation in such a excrementally disingenuous fashion sees you foisted by your own petard: perhaps YOU need to come out of the closet?

Perhaps you are so ashamed of yourself that you seek to cast attention from you to others, and in doing so make people believe that you are not at all gay?

You are typical of your kind, dishonest, slanderous and full of vile rancour.

Pray to God you can be saved! ;-)

Posted by The Truth Is... | Report as abusive
 

Of course I know lots of Gay people. I am not playing any games. I told you my cousin is Gay and so is my Brother in Law. My closest neighbors are lesbians. In my line of work a very large percentage of the people are Gay. I hold Gay people to the same standards I hold everyone. I expect people to exercise some self control and not act like junk yard dogs breeding in a vacant lot. Adultery is condemned in the Bible more than homosexual acts but our country doesn’t seem to even notice that. Matt you don’t have the right to judge me. Divorce is wrong in all but the most extreme situations but since the 70s our culture has lowered the standards to about six inches above the ground. All sexual relations that are acts of lust not love are a sin as far as I am concerned. If you idnore the Bible how can you say you are Christian I ask you?

Posted by Mrs. Boyle | Report as abusive
 

dear ‘the truth is..’

How come the minute a person becomes adamant in their views against homosexuality , they are accused of being a closet homosexual or a homophobe. So to according to many who are pro gay-to oppose this activity as being sinful means you either secretly want to do it, or you are afraid of it. Oh come on–try to find an intellectually honest response. How about you simply believe the word of God on the matter.

The Bible, GODS word characterizes sex between those of the same sex as being sin. And there are other stronger adjectives He uses to discribe it as well. SO if you want to call her a bogot closeted homosexual then I guess that is waht you are calling God as well, becasue she is simply in line with what the bible says this activity is.

 

gay culture seems like Neverland
a lost boys theme pervades
but hopefully is growing up
as old oppression fades

Posted by JDS | Report as abusive
 

prisca said: “The Bible, GODS word characterizes sex between those of the same sex as being sin.”

No it doesn’t.

 

It’s clear that some who comment here know next to nothing about Bishop Robinson. And yet they are so quick to jump to conclusions and judgments of this fellow child of God. That in itself is opposed to the example of Christ.

Regarding the blatant falsehood that says the threats on Bishop Robinson’s life are contrived or overstated – upon what evidence do some base their claims that the threats are not real? No evidence at all; yet they apparently feel entitled (and sometimes even gleeful) to bear false witness against a neighbor. Their actions seem only to be rooted in preconceived bias and ill will. The truth is that law enforcement (including the FBI) have at times considered the death threats against Bishop Robinson credible enough to advise protective measures and in some cases directly provide said protection.

Posted by Scott Smith | Report as abusive
 

Dear Matt–Yes it does so characterize it- Leviticus 18:6-23–verse 22 to be exact–and in other books as well.

Posted by prisca | Report as abusive
 

prisca, Nope. That’s a mistranslation. Lev. 18:22 refers to temple prostitution in connection with the verse before.

So, again, no it doesn’t.

 

Regarding prisca’s reference to the Leviticus holiness codes, in Hebrew, “abominations” (TO’EBAH) are behaviors
that people in a certain time and place consider tasteless or offensive. To the Jews of that time an abomination was not the same as a law, it was not something evil like rape or murder forbidden by the Ten Commandments. It was a behavior (common to the surrounding society) by non-Jews that Jews thought was displeasing to God.

Both Jesus and Paul said the holiness code in Leviticus does not pertain to Christian believers. Nevertheless, there are obviously still people who pull the two verses about men sleeping together from this ancient holiness code to say that the Bible seems to condemn homosexuality.

Yet these same people appear completely willing to ignore other requirements of the holiness code in the surrounding text. For example, have you ever said grace over a meal and then eaten leftovers from that meal two days later? Then you’ve committed an abomination according to a plain reading of Leviticus. Ever worn clothing made of two different materials, say, like a poly/cotton blend? Guys, have you ever shaved your beard? Ever eaten shellfish? Then you’ve violated the holiness codes.

Do we stone those guilty of adultery? When a son is rebellious and refuses to obey his parents, do they bring him to the outskirts of town so that we can all stone him to death? Of course not. To do either would be unthinkable. Yet the holiness codes require those actions.

When someone cites Leviticus as a justification for their prejudice, it’s either done out of hypocrisy or ignorance. But it’s also understandable, since many don’t actually study the Bible, and only gather their understandings from what others have told them.

Posted by Scott Smith | Report as abusive
 

In my previous post, it would have been more accurate for me to have said “present in the surrounding society” instead of “common to the surrounding society.” I don’t believe that anyone can say just how prevalent the behaviors prohibited in the holiness codes were at that time in history. But the fact that the behaviors are listed reasonably indicates that the behaviors were not unheard of during that time. Sorry for the poor choice of words in my previous post!

Posted by Scott Smith | Report as abusive
 

Leaving your wife and kids to go hump men is not really too Christian so my guess is maybe Mr. Robinson should excuse himself from the ministry and become a masseuse or something and not be in the pulpit at all. Just my thoughts you understand.

Posted by Mrs. Boyle | Report as abusive
 

Again, someone who knows next to nothing about Bishop Robinson has to bleat their judgmental tripe. The true story of Bishop Robinson and his former wife is an amazing one full of grace, respect and love for each other and for their children. It’s an example of two adults behaving very honorably to each other, and keeping their concern for their children foremost. ‘Boo’, his former wife, was among the first to receive the Eucharist from Bishop Robinson at his consecration, a choice she made (she has said publicly) to clearly demonstrate her continuing support for Gene.

Yet with little to no knowledge of the real story of these loving parents, who though divorced shared the responsibility and upbringing of their two daughters, Mrs. Boyle feels justified in slinging her slimy bilge at their entire family. How very unlike Christ’s example. Shame on you, madam.

Posted by Scott Smith | Report as abusive
 

Grace and respect means you marry someone for life and you stay at home and raise the kids you fathered, Scotty

Posted by Mrs. Boyle | Report as abusive
 

“The Gospel according to Ms. half-Boiled”

Posted by Scott Smith | Report as abusive
 

All churches except that we are all sinners but they expect the sinner to acknowledge they have sinned and try to do better. Forgiveness is the most profound part of Christ’s Church. Read- John 8:1-11 . It is truly beautiful. Love is not about ignoring peoples sins its about looking past them and loving that person despite their sins. But to be redeemed one must acknowledge they are a sinner and turn away from sin. We all make mistakes and backslide but through Christ there is always hope. On this Sabbath I wish you peace.

Posted by Mrs. Boyle | Report as abusive
 

Being homosexual is no more a sin than being heterosexual. It’s morally neutral.

While true that as sinners we all fall short, it’s also true that we cannot earn our redemption. It’s freely given, through the death and resurrection of the Christ.

Our commission from Christ was not to point out the specks in others’ eyes, but to love our neighbors and to love our God. Christ did not make the love we bear our neighbors conditional upon our neighbors’ sharing our opinions about what constitutes sin. We are to love them, not judge them.

Posted by Father Ted | Report as abusive
 

-Except that the Bible says it is a sin to perform Homosexual acts. Father Ted, you know better than I that you can’t pick and choose parts of the Bible you like and throw the rest out. Just because western pop culture has changed position on homoseulaity since the 70s does not mean God has. It was a sin in Christ’s time and its still a sin to have relations with the same sex. Sorry it don’t fly. I don’t care what the liberal media pushes and prints its not normal and its a sin.

Posted by Mrs. Boyle | Report as abusive
 

Dear lady, God is the judge of sin, and His angels will separate the weeds from the wheat at His command. That is their job, not ours. Christ commanded each of us to “love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.” Why then do we still devote some of our soul/heart/mind/strength away from God to condemn the neighbor whom Christ also commanded us to love?

What burden compels our recurrent need to marginalize and scapegoat those whom God has created, just as He created us? Mrs. Boyle, i pray that someday you are granted the grace to experience Christ through the eyes and hands of someone like Bishop Robinson.

Posted by Father Ted | Report as abusive
 

I know God is the judge of sin but His word is clear in the Bible and what He says is the truth. As far as judging someone. That is not my right but if someone murders or steals something do we all not know that is bad and don’t we all react to the sin? Of course we do. We all know when someone cheats on the spouse its wrong and we all see the damage it does. I don’t want to punish or humiliate sinners. I want no vengeance or wish to hurt them. I love people and I have Gay and straight friends. I never say anything to my Gay friends to make them feel bad but that doesn’t mean I agree with their life choices. Here is one of many stories from my life on how homosexuality is destructive and sinful. When I was in my very early teens my neighbors oldest daughter got married. Barbara was a lovely young women but shy. She Married a man who was a tall handsome guy from Warren, Pennsylvania. They looked to be very happy and very well matched. We all felt joy for them. A few years latter I was shocked to hear the marriage was in trouble. A few years latter I heard Barbara had been in therapy because her husband would not sleep with her and never came home at night. She was distraught and felt terrible about herself and had with drawn from her family her social life.This couple had been living in NYC since they wed. Latter when they split for good I found out she came home to find her husband on the couch with another man one day having sex. She had been blaming herself for years that Keith no longer loved her. So please don’t tell me how Gay people have had it so bad and how much they are persecuted. Once more women suffer at the hands of men who are slaves to their animal urges and no one cares. All these TV shows and articles go on and on about these hidden lives of Gay men in agony but I am not seeing that in my travels through life. I am seeing women hurt by the selfish acts of Gay men like Gene Robinson and like this man who married my neighbor. I can tell you dozens of stories about how Gay men have wrecked the lives of women I know and they care nothing about what they have done the their wives and children. The children suffer the most. You can’t make me believe that Gene Robinsons daughters have not been damaged for life by their father’s actions. I know Christ will be the judge of him and I know he will have allot to answer for too.

Posted by Mrs. Boyle | Report as abusive
 

Hey, Ted,

Repent seems to be missing from the equation, here. Turn
away from….

It’s one thing to admit sin. To keep on with it is quite
another. If homosexuality is not a sin, then so be it.
Is that why is it so rampant in the catholic church and why you would like others to embrace it?

Tell me why you can’t go to church without all this in our faces-shoved-down-our-throats-love me? That’s not
very nice.

I am guilty as charged for my (missing the mark) sin. It
is time to aim again for the hope of hitting the mark.

Posted by al | Report as abusive
 

Yes Al, still another big time Priest in NYC taken from his church due to accusations of fondling boys. It was in the New York Times yesterday. This one has a twist its a Black leader. The very same Pastor who set up the visit Church in the US all these Gay priests and gave the invocation at Gov. Patterson’s inauguration recently. The Gay culture within the Church is going to destroy it. Gay culture pushes all the boundaries from gender bending to underage sex. The day my Church excepts homosexuals in its leadership I am gone. Father Ted how does Jesus look on Clergy preying on little boys? in NY for the Pope, Rev. Monsignor Wallace Harris. It threatens to bring down the whole Roman Catholic Church. It’s ripping the Episcopalian Church apart. Such selfishness. The whole world church may fall because a minority selfishly wants to impose their will on the greater Church body. It would not surprise me that by mid century the Church only survives in places like Africa and Asia.

Posted by Mrs. Boyle | Report as abusive
 

Al, there is no possibility of redemption without repentance. Sorry if I did not make that explicit for you; it is such a given in my mind. I am sorry for not making that clear.

The rest of your comment I find confusing; I’m not sure what you mean. To restate what I said in an earlier comment, I believe that both heterosexuality and homosexuality are morally equivalent and that homosexuality is no more innately sinful than heterosexuality.

I can argue that HOW a person expresses their sexuality, whether they are gay or straight, is where sin enters. To build on Mrs. Boyle’s tragic examples, I do believe that infidelity to a marriage covenant is sinful, though that sin is certainly not limited or common to gay men, who likely do not enter into marriage with a heterosexual women as much as heterosexual men do. Nearly all of the instances of marriage infidelity that I’ve known have been among heterosexuals. I see infidelity as a sadly all too common human failing, irrespective of sexual orientation.

I find your use of the term “embrace” to be problematic, since to me it implies that an individual has a conscious choice about which gender they are attracted to, something that is not borne out by any objective evidence I have been able to find, nor have I found that to be the subjective experience of the gay and lesbian people who have sought pastoral care from me.

The concept of embracing an orientation makes no sense to me. Do I ‘embrace’ left-handedness or right handedness? Of course not. Most people are right handed, some are left handed. I embrace people regardless of their handedness. I also encourage fellow Christians to see Christ in every neighbor and to embrace their neighbor, regardless of that neighbor’s sexual orientation.

Not being Roman Catholic, my opinion of the prevalence of homosexuality in their church likely does not carry much weight, except to me.

Posted by Father Ted | Report as abusive
 

I am no hater let me make that clear, I really feel for Gay and Lesbian people. Life is complicated enough without having gender issues. I can tell you when I look around I see almost only very unhappy people who are Gay and Lesbians. If being free to follow a path to same sex relationships is their right that is a legal and social issue of the culture but it does it bring happiness. I am not seeing it does and I don’t think that is just because tradition resists this type of sex. I think lust not love pervades our cultures and I am deeply concerned that many young people have no idea what is right or wrong. The main reason I do not care for Gene Robinson as a role model and as a church leader is because he broke his marriage vows and he seems to think that is OK because he is somehow some kind of victim of traditional society and therefore what he has done to his daughters is just fine. Well as a social worker and teacher I can tell its not just fine. He has broken God’s law and he has not shown any signs of repenting. Just because his ex-wife has now excepted the situation and has found a new life does not mean she has not suffered greatly because of her husbands actions. Now she has to hear about her life talked about globally in the media every day. I don’t know how this poor women is not insane. It’s really so wrong and so perverted what is happening today. Gene Robinson is no victim and no hero. He is a run of the mill adulterer blaming his short comings on someone else.

Posted by Mrs. Boye | Report as abusive
 

Mrs. Boyle persists in mis-characterizing all gay people based upon her own biased, subjective views. Knowing absolutely nothing about Bish his op Robinson, she rails against him and slanders his entire family.

Bishop Robinson never lied to his former wife about his sexuality. He share the fact of his same-sex attractions with her long before they were married. She was (and still is) amazingly supportive of him during all the years of therapy and prayer when he mistakenly believed that being gay was something that could be changed. They mutually came to the decision to divorce years later when they both realized that it wouldn’t change. They didn’t ‘break’ their vows, as Mrs. Boyle so spitefully believes. Instead, they both felt so strongly about their marriage vows that they stood at an altar, in front of friends and family and lovingly released each other from the vows they had taken.

All of this they both have stated publicly. Yet small-minded people, threatened by the truth, must have their scapegoat.

Mrs. Boyle seems determined to blame gay men for marital infidelity, divorce, pedophilia, and heterosexual women’s pain. She also claims the gay people are not happy. What utter BS.

Some gay people (certainly not representative of most gay people) do enter into marriage believing that it will somehow make the straight. Frequently they make that choice at the insistent urging of family, or upon the advice of professional therapists. Perhaps they make their tragic choices because they are so confused from believing the fallacious Mrs. Bigots of the world.

Some cannot accept the truth of their own God-given sexuality, and hurt themselves and others in the process. Some cannot accept the truth of others, and lash out in biased blame and willful ignorance. Mrs. Boyle certainly seems to fit into the latter category, proudly proclaiming that she believes what she believes, no matter what. While people like her are free and entitled to delude herself without challenge, she’s not free to slander and mislead others without objection. At least not in this thread.

Don’t claim authority as a social worker, in support of your arguments, Mrs. Boyle. The profession you claim hardly does not support your prejudice. According to the National Association of Social Workers (NASW): “Social workers are guided by the NASW Code of Ethics which bans discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. NASW believes that non- judgmental attitudes toward sexual orientation allow social workers to offer optimal support and services to lesbian and gay people. NASW affirms its commitment to work toward full social and legal acceptance of lesbian and gay people. The profession must also act to eliminate and prevent discriminatory statutes, policies, and actions that diminish the quality of life for lesbian and gay people and that force many to live their lives in the closet.” The British Association of Social Workers endorses a similar position. Now I’m sure Mrs. Boyle will find some way to blame these official association positions on gay people as well, since they seem to be her repository for all sorts of blaming. But she’ll still be deluded.

Posted by Scott Smith | Report as abusive
 

Science shows that same sex sexual orientation is not something you are born with. Despite the frantic efforts of Gay men who want to believe that, there is no serious scientist yet that will say it is so because there is zero proof. It is obvious a number of factors come together to make someone attracted to the same sex. Pedophiles are attracted to children and can’t seem to stop being attracted to having sex with children. Should we then say its OK they can’t help it let them perform sexual acts on kids! No! The fact remains you can control your urges God gave you something called self control. I am attracted to other men all the time but I don’t act on it. If Gene Robinson was any kind of Christian he would have made those sacrifices for the sake of his wife and kids but he is too selfish to do this. His loins speak louder to him than God! Gene Robinson has injured his daughters and he has sinned. The Bible makes it very clear. Many many Priests have been celibate as they consider their marriage to be to the Church. Gene is married to himself.

Posted by Mrs. Boye | Report as abusive
 

It never ends the sad stories of what the sin of homosexual relations brings on those who live this life of degrading behavior.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/07/world/ americas/07mexico.html?ref=world

Posted by Mrs. Boye | Report as abusive
 

Oy. Mrs. Boyle/Boye opines: “Science shows that same sex sexual orientation is not something you are born with. Despite the frantic efforts of Gay men who want to believe that, there is no serious scientist yet that will say it is so because there is zero proof.”

Wrong.

Then Mrs. Boyle/Boye tries (AGAIN) to equate pedophiles with gays.

Wrong AGAIN. Homosexuality is NOT an illness and it is NOT abuse waged on innocent victims. Pedophilia is both of these things.

Then Mrs. Boyle/Boye tries to paint Bishop Robinson as some degenerate, saying, “His loins speak louder to him than God!”

You’re wrong. AGAIN. As I and others have said between your ignorant tirades, you need to do some research on Bishop Robinson.

Finally, you’ve mentioned a couple times that your big problem with Bishop Robinson is that he’s divorced. My question to you: Are you this concerned about other religious leaders who are divorced? Do you spend this much energy vilifying and defaming them?

 

Like I said, Mrs. Boyle is delusional, and can’t seem to stop herself from proving it over and over.

There have been many peer reviewed scientific studies over the past 40 years that demonstrate that homosexuality isn’t a choice. The dominant emerging scientific consensus is that there are several contributing factors which determine where an individual ends up on the spectrum of human sexuality, from heterosexual to gay.

Here’s a helpful summary on the current (reality-based) state of scientific research on sexual orientation, from Dr. David G. Myers: http://www.davidmyers.org/Brix?pageID=62

Mrs. Boyle certainly seems to have an obsession with condemning Bishop Robinson, easily ignoring and discounting that fact the story of his family doesn’t actually fit into her prejudices. Oh, and Mrs. B: I think Father Ted’s right – homosexuality is no more a sin than heterosexuality. But since you obviously have a deep-seated need to demonize gay people, especially gay men, feel free. You’re entitled to your opinion. But the facts are the facts, and the opinions you’ve been casting around here aren’t based in reality.

Posted by Scott Smith | Report as abusive
 

“Born that way” theory

http://www.narth.com/menus/born.html

Posted by Mrs. Boyle | Report as abusive
 

My dear friends, I am not someone who hates homosexuals, I just want them to stop trying to force the rest of us to except what they do and force us to say what the Bible says about same sex relations is wrong. I have said it before here, I have relatives who are Gay. I do not ever try to hurt them in anyway or pound them into seeing things my way. God will deal with the issue when the time comes. Please, just stop trying to beat the rest of us into agreeing you sins are not sins. Calling every person who does not agree a bigot widens the gap by miles. Please come down from your ivory towers and embrace reality?

Posted by Mars. Boyle | Report as abusive
 

Every time someone uses narth.com as a reputable source an angel starts to giggle.

 

Chuckle all you want to, Matt but you are no angel. Some of the links on that site may be slanted but the mainstream scientists all say the same thing people are NOT born Gay. I have been following this topic for years.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2008/06/30/AR2008063000355. html

They also say some genes make certain individuals more prone to be promiscous but that does not mean you have to do that. God gives us free will.

Posted by Mars. Boyle | Report as abusive
 

NARTH: An organization that lack credibility, with a long documented history of junk-science and misusing others’ research. About NARTH

According to an official statement issued by the American Psychological Association in 2006:

“For over three decades the consensus of the mental health community has been that homosexuality is not an illness and therefore not in need of a cure. The APA’s concern about the positions espoused by NARTH (The National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality) and so-called conversion therapy is that they are not supported by the science. There is simply no sufficiently scientifically sound evidence that sexual orientation can be changed. Our further concern is that the positions espoused by NARTH and Focus on the Family create an environment in which prejudice and discrimination can flourish.”

Mrs. B said: I am coming from the background of a biologist and a creature attracted to its own sex is not a working model, good people!

Any knowledgeable biologist can confirm that homosexual behavior is seen in many mammals. While biologists are still puzzled about why homosexuality is such an enduring characteristic, recently there was some fanfare among researchers that statistically at least, maternal female relatives of gay men exhibit higher fertility rates. Here’s a link to an article on this research: http://www.slate.com/id/2194232/

Mrs. B said: Did you see the video of Gene Robinson driven from the pulpit by people who stood up to him from the congregation. I wish I could have been there!

Perhaps if she had been there or had actually read the article that accompanied the video to which she linked, she would know that it was the sole heckler who was quickly escorted out of the church, that the congregation drowned out the heckler’s insults first with slow clapping (a sign of disapproval in Britain) and then by loudly singing a hymn. Bishop Robinson then asked the congregation to pray for the man, and then continued his sermon.

Mrs. B said: Show me how Gay people are not selfish?
Assuming that altruism is defined as a value that includes giving of one’s time and energy to others at some cost to oneself and without expectation of reciprocation, the few studies that have been done indicate that gay men are far more altruistic than straight men. In fact, there is evidence that gay men are at least as altruistic as straight women, who routinely score at the top of altruism scales. Here are just a few resources:
1. A. Christopher Richards, “Altruistic Behavior and Caregiving in the AIDS Epidemic” (Paper presented at the Center for AIDS Prevention Studies, 1992).
2. D. Salais and R.B. Fischer, “Sexual Preference and Altruism,” Journal of Homosexuality, 28(1-2)(1995).
3. E.O. Wilson, Sociobiology, (Cambridge, MA: Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, 1975).
Interestingly, some marketing research has indicated that lgbt donors to lgbt charitable institutions also donate money to other non-lgbt institutional charities which do not provide any services to lgbt communities. While more research needs to be done to solidly confirm this, what has been studied so far indicates that lgbt donors are far more willing than heterosexual donors to invest in charitable institutions that they don’t use, even ones that help people who were very unlike them.

Mrs. B said: Except that the Bible says it is a sin to perform Homosexual acts.
That’s infinitely debatable. There are at most seven passages of Scripture that have been traditionally interpreted by some Christians as portraying homosexual acts as sin, but I would argue that these people have misused Scripture to justify and support their existing prejudices. At most, these passages indicate that it’s sinful for heterosexuals to perform homosexual acts, or that it’s sinful to use sexual acts (i.e. rape) against the unwilling to subjugate and victimize them.

Mrs. B said: …another big time Priest in NYC taken from his church due to accusations of fondling boys. (Monsignor Harris)
That’s a sad story. Even sadder, the DA’s office has said it is unlikely to charge Monsignor Harris on these allegations, so at this point it still has yet to be proven that he in fact did fondle any one. However, another priest from that parish was charged, tried and convicted a few years ago for molesting a girl.

Mrs. B said: I can tell you when I look around I see almost only very unhappy people who are Gay and Lesbians.
People often have trouble seeing what’s right in front of them. LGBT people are generally no more or less happy than heterosexuals, though research shows there is a higher incidence of depression among the LGBT population when compared to heterosexuals. Studies have concluded that’s most likely due to the added social stigma and discrimination that LGBT people experience. Mrs. Boyle has demonstrated this stigmatizing of gay people most ably as well as repeatedly.

Mrs. B said: …as a social worker and teacher…
I though she said she had a background in biology? Well, perhaps she taught biology, though I would expect a biology teacher to be a bit more up to date on current scientific findings.

Mrs. B said: Science shows that same sex sexual orientation is not something you are born with.
Science shows no such thing, as Matt stated in his post. Again, here’s a helpful summary on the current (reality-based) state of scientific research on sexual orientation, from Dr. David G. Myers, professor of psychology at Hope University, a Christian college: http://www.davidmyers.org/Brix?pageID=62
What science has repeatedly indicated is that sexual orientation is not something subject to the will. Heterosexuals cannot willfully become homosexual, and gay people cannot willfully become heterosexual. Some studies have indicated that a statistically small number of highly motivated gay individuals have been able to temporarily reorient their sexual behavior, and enter a sexual relationship with an opposite sex partner, but anecdotal evidence indicates that these situations often end in sad scenarios like Mrs. Boyle described about her neighbor. The ‘ex-gay’ partner’s natural orientation re-emerges, and both he (or she) and their straight partner end up hurt and disappointed. It would be more beneficial to society to encourage gay people marry each other, and heterosexuals to continue marrying each other.

As to the claim of not being a hater or a bigot: If it looks like a bigot, writes like a bigot, and clings to views despite a preponderance of evidence to the contrary, it probably is a bigot.

Posted by Scott Smith | Report as abusive
 

I have seen my ram sheep bugger each other but as soon a female comes on the scene they forget about their male sex partners and bee line for the ewes. I am stumped by these studies as in 25 years of breeding sheep I have never had a “Gay” ram. I have lived on a this farm for 20 years and I only see animals that are bisexual at certain times. I have never seen one in all these years only focus on the same sex. Why would you say I am a hater or a bigot? Have I shown any hate towards any Gay person? The answer is no. Do I want to see violence against Gays, no. Would I say something cruel to a Gay person, no. Do I enjoy it when Gay people suffer, no. You are the bigots. You are so sure you are right because you want acceptance so bad you feel the need to attack anyone who does not agree with your position. Did you follow the Washington Post link about Homosexuals and nature vs. nurture I posted? I see allot of people suffering who are Gay and I can only ascertain that this is why the Bible says it is wrong to have relations with someone of the same gender. I am just as hard on heterosexual couples who live together out of wedlock and single mothers. I think they are all going against God. Our society is depraved and twisted. This super liberal stuff is crazy. I am not a conservative. I am liberal to moderate on all issues. My feelings about this issue are based on my understanding of the Bible and by my life experiences. All this enormous social change came about because there was so much wealth and food and so many resources. These have been the highest of times. When things get really hard economically people will suddenly stop being so easy about all these rapid social chances that hurt women and children so much. You cannot understand humanity by looking at life from 1979-2008, folks. Are you are telling me everything until the far left took control in the West has been wrong? I don’t think so! These have been years of unprecedented change and upheaval. Hang on to your seats folks ’cause the roller coaster has crested and is going down fast now. It won’t be going up any time soon with energy prices as they are. The pendulum is now going the other way and people are taking stock of how far we have strayed from God’s plan. Hopefully people will wake up and hear God’s word again soon and stop being hedonistic and start doing His will.

Posted by Mrs. Boyle | Report as abusive
 

Most of Mrs. Boyle’s posts are patently offensive, embodying judgment and an ignorance that is casually hateful and cruel towards gay people. Evidently she’s blind to that. However, she takes offense when the hateful untruths she espouses are contradicted. Perhaps that’s because, as she herself admits, her views are completely subjective, based upon her own understandings & experiences of life and the Bible. Since her conclusions are so easily routed by objective facts, her only choices are to cede the argument or become more shrill.

She has posted links to articles that do not support her arguments. Since she seems to think they do, she must have highly developed the ability to screen out any factual information (or indeed, any possibilities) that her eyes do not want to admit into the whited sepulcher of her pharisaical heart.

Liberal? In casting dispersions on those she claims she doesn’t want to see suffer, yes, she is very liberal. She says she is ‘liberal to moderate on all issues’ yet her subsequent sentences belie that claim.

Perhaps though, I was too quick to label her her a bigot. While her actions may be bigoted, maybe she herself is not. She certainly doesn’t like being classified as one. Is she blinded by bias, committed to her own ignorance, compulsively opinionated, unconsciously cruel? Sadly, her own words point to ‘Yes’. But maybe she’s not actually a bigot.

She’s certainly entitled to her opinions, even when they unfairly malign someone who’s dedicated his life to the service of one of God’s communities of faith. Or even whole communities of neighbors. She’s welcome to malign all gay people as much as she wants. I’m sure that’s what she’ll continue to do, tilting at every lavender windmill she myopically perceives.

No matter who’s opinions are right or wrong, I’m certain that God values actual people, even gay people, more that He values the judgments we pronounce on each other.

Posted by Scott Smith | Report as abusive
 

Er, in the first paragraph of my preceding post, that should have been “aspersions,” not “dispersions”. Though come to think of it, Mrs. Boyle & I are certainly on different wavelengths, and this thread is undeniably diffuse, lol.

Posted by Scott Smith | Report as abusive