Comments on: Pope lays down the law to French Catholic bishops http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/09/15/pope-lays-down-the-law-to-french-catholic-bishops/ Religion, faith and ethics Sat, 23 Apr 2016 23:25:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: Dave http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/09/15/pope-lays-down-the-law-to-french-catholic-bishops/comment-page-1/#comment-6004 Thu, 18 Sep 2008 10:14:17 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/09/15/pope-lays-down-the-law-to-french-catholic-bishops/#comment-6004 I’m a practicing Catholic. I attend mass weekly. And I’m going through a divorce.

And I’m tired of feeling like I’m not welcome in The Church. My ex-wife did not go to church. She was critical of my faith. I’m not without fault in the failure of my marriage, but my former wife thought nothing of staying out until 3am on a Friday with her friends.I was the one who was home every night. And she was the one who said “I want to be alone.”

I don’t list my tale of woe, to garner sympathy. But while my divorce drags on, I have to put my love life on hold. My ex and I have been separated for 14 months, the divorce proceedings are 12 months long and she seems to be in no rush to get the divorce behind us.

And I need permission for someone to tell me it’s all right to pursue another relationship? In my opinion, and I could be wrong, I am being held hostage by her, through the Church’s teachings, the Church that she hates.

I made a poor choice of a spouse. I was not an easy guy to live with. Plenty of blame to go around in my marriage. The most I can say is that I was not unfaithful.

And I can’t even apply for an annulment until my divorce is final? How long do I wait for my life to begin?

I met a woman who is a Eucharistic Minister, an active Catholic. But we wait. For what?

I don’t get it.

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By: Bryan Dunne http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/09/15/pope-lays-down-the-law-to-french-catholic-bishops/comment-page-1/#comment-5992 Wed, 17 Sep 2008 16:49:16 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/09/15/pope-lays-down-the-law-to-french-catholic-bishops/#comment-5992 Pope Benedict also made comments on the plane over to France about the Motu Proprio and this is what I wrote on CTNGreg in reponse to Prof Perrin of the University of Strasbourg.

AMDG Sentire cum Ecclesia…. The Motu Proprio is the Law. The comments of the Holy Father on a plane are not direct quotations and I wonder whether the journalist has interpreted what the Holy Father said through the prism of his own liturgical lenses.

However the Law is the Law and extra-Judicial comments by a nomothete do not change the words of the Law; even if the comments appear to contradict the Law. The Law-giver must respect the Law – the Motu Proprio – if as M. Perrin says these comments go against the MP or will be of use to those members of the Hierarchy who never really wanted to respect the MP then all the faithful need to do is to remind Msgr XYZ that the MP is the Law regardless of what the Holy Father may or may not have said on an aeroplane.

However even if the comments of the Holy Father have been recorded correctly how could anyone disagree with his comment: But I would humbly like to suggest the the Holy Father’s words support the MP and do not, in any way contradict it or undermine the force or stated intention of Sum. Pont.. My Comments on the Holy Father’s remarks are in brackets with asterixes *** This ‘motu proprio’ is simply an act ( ***A motu proprio – a judicial act of the Sovreign Pontiff – saying that the Pian Missal was never abrogated***)

of tolerance ( ***this is a two-edged sword – the Trads are asked to stop their hectoring of the Novus Ordo and the other blade of the sword is that the Novus Ordo hierarchy and priests are asked to tolerate, ie permit without hindering or resenting those who love the Pian Missal – the Extra-ordinary Rite***)

with a pastoral objective, ( ***Yes, he’s right again, the Pastoral Objective, like Pope John Paul II opm in his Ecclesia Dei Afflicata was to show that the Pian Missal – now Extraoridnary Use was to be permitted for those who preferred it in rder that their leigtimate and licit desires for the Sacrifice and the Sacraments according to the Missale Romanum of 1962 could be met inthe Roman Catholic Church and that they would not be tempted to join together with groups who although not in formal SCHISM have elements in their preaching and praxis which do indicate that they have SCHISMATIC tendancies***) for people who have been formed in this liturgy, who love it, know it and want to live with this liturgy.

It is a small group, given that it presupposes a formation in Latin, ( ***Yes the Holy Father is right again, we know we are a small group – and we all need to put away the Rosary beads at Mass and follow the Mass with the priest in Latin, not in French or English***)

a formation in a certain culture ( ***Indeed and I believe he means by this a Roman Catholic culture – Tradisti quod accepivisti? (*** Do you pass on the Faith in its entirely to others, the True Faith of the Catholic Church founded by DNJC to others? or are we simply going to sulk and gripe and complain?***)

But it seems to me a normal demand of faith and pastoral concern for a bishop of our Church to have love and tolerance for these people and permit them to live with this liturgy. (*** Indeed and by adopting the Ignatian method of sentire cum Ecclesia and interpreting the actions of all, including the Holy Father, in the most charitable way possible, we can only interpret these comments on the Motu Proprio as a huge philip and boost to the Traditional Communities – Vivat Papa Bendictus!***)

In caritate Xp.,
Bryan Dunne
Our Lady of the 7 Dolours opn.

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By: Charbel http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/09/15/pope-lays-down-the-law-to-french-catholic-bishops/comment-page-1/#comment-5968 Wed, 17 Sep 2008 06:28:27 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/09/15/pope-lays-down-the-law-to-french-catholic-bishops/#comment-5968 Why do the bishops have issues with traditionalists. I am a maronite catholic living in Australia and the maronite youths are flocking to parishes that have conservative priests.
the Churches are empty these days, not because of traditionalists, on the contrary it is because of the liberalism that has crept into the church in the last few decades.
People will come back to the church if our priests and bishops show leadership and don’t undermine the church’s teachings.
Thanks be to god for giving us Pope Bennedict

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By: Albert Cooper http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/09/15/pope-lays-down-the-law-to-french-catholic-bishops/comment-page-1/#comment-5960 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 13:23:44 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/09/15/pope-lays-down-the-law-to-french-catholic-bishops/#comment-5960 The shortage of priest in France,the lack of the faithfull attending Sunday Mass,nothing at all to do to the French Bishops ,Vactican 2 ,liturgical abuses,excuses in sin,and so on !! I wonder how these treachourous clergy sleep in theur beds at night.This is not just France though,its the same here in England and my parish ot St.John the Baptist Norwich The Cathedral church of the diocese of East Anglia

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By: Tom http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/09/15/pope-lays-down-the-law-to-french-catholic-bishops/comment-page-1/#comment-5957 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:51:08 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/09/15/pope-lays-down-the-law-to-french-catholic-bishops/#comment-5957 Jane

The Catholic Church teaches (see decree on marriage, Council of Trent) that Christian marriage, when validly transacted, is a sacrament, among Protestants as well as Catholics. No priest celebrates the sacrament, since the celebrants are the couple marrying. Hence, valid sacramental marriage is posible among Protestants even in the absence of what the Catholic Church would recognize as a sacramental priesthood.

But the Catholic Church claims the right, under the power of the keys granted to Peter and the Apostles, to put conditions on the validity of marriages celebrated by Catholic Christians in full communion with the see of Peter. Since the Council of Trent, the Church has required that Catholics celebrate their marriage in the presence of a Catholic priest as witness (not as celebrant), unless specific permission has been given to celebrate the marriage otherwise. A Catholic who marries before a Protestant minister without having bothered to get such permission (which permission they actually can apply for and obtain – but need to do so) will simply not contract a valid marriage, end of story.

The point of putting this condition on validity? So the Catholic Church has some public record coming from authorities it trusts and regulates, its own priesthood, of who is marrying whom, and some ability to ensure and enforce adequate marriage preparation in a form that it can be happy with and recognize. In the middle ages, Catholics could marry without a priest, before lay witnesses only, allowing casual and unprepared celebrations, and making it far easier to manufacture fraudulent claims of marriages that never actually happened. This caused huge problems, obviously.

These conditions are not enforced on Protestants marrying Protestants. But you can forgive the Catholic Church for having some concern for the spiritual good of those Christians who are fully in communion with it and who are very directly its responsibility and who, nominally at least, accept its jurisdiction. This shows a concern for Catholics, not a disrespect for non-Catholics, or for Christian marriage between non-Catholics. If Catholics marry Protestants, they can do so, validly, and in a Protestant Church. But they do have to follow the rules and get permission – which, when asked for, will ordinarily be given.

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By: Tom Heneghan http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/09/15/pope-lays-down-the-law-to-french-catholic-bishops/comment-page-1/#comment-5956 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:32:49 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/09/15/pope-lays-down-the-law-to-french-catholic-bishops/#comment-5956 Jane,
Thanks for this comment. Very interesting … first I’ve heard of this. Are there any other readers out there who have come across the same thing?

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By: jane http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/09/15/pope-lays-down-the-law-to-french-catholic-bishops/comment-page-1/#comment-5955 Mon, 15 Sep 2008 20:04:21 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/09/15/pope-lays-down-the-law-to-french-catholic-bishops/#comment-5955 Actually a Roman Catholic doesn’t necesarily need an annullment beofre being able to remarry in Church. I was quite shocked when I started my (Protestant)ministry in France to discover that a Roman Catholic who marries first time around in a a non-Roman Catholic church can be treated as a first time marrier for their second marriage. this from a church that claims to be pro family and marriage.
I would sometimes try to get mixed mariages taking place in a Protestant church written into the diocesan records but it’s quite a long process and normally relies on their being a pro-Vatican II priest willing to do the paperwork. Of course Protestant marriage is not a sacrament but it is still a marriage …

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