Comments on: Jews remind Vatican of darker side of Pius XII anniversary http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/06/jews-remind-vatican-of-darker-side-of-pius-xii-anniversary/ Religion, faith and ethics Sat, 23 Apr 2016 23:25:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: Earl Shugerman http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/06/jews-remind-vatican-of-darker-side-of-pius-xii-anniversary/comment-page-1/#comment-11007 Sat, 07 Mar 2009 19:52:02 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/06/jews-remind-vatican-of-darker-side-of-pius-xii-anniversary/#comment-11007 Harvey Miller and I believe that the Ten Commandments are the universal answer to all mankind’s problems; therefore we should all live by the Golden Rule. We live in Haifa and view the Pope’s upcoming visit as a brave and spiritual act. The Jewish people are the simple custodians of the land of Israel and we ask all rightous people to live by the teachings that came from this glorious nation. Bless the Pope and all our true Christian
brothers and sisters and welcome to Israel.

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By: Reginald T. A. de Vore http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/06/jews-remind-vatican-of-darker-side-of-pius-xii-anniversary/comment-page-1/#comment-8006 Fri, 24 Oct 2008 20:33:50 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/06/jews-remind-vatican-of-darker-side-of-pius-xii-anniversary/#comment-8006 Permit me to say, although I am a Christian layman, that it is both nonsensical and dangerous to ascribe to St. Paul the Apostle a derogatory role of innovator regarding testimony for the physical resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth. Aside from the Pauline witness of I Cor. 15:1-9, the NT gives ample evidence [Matt. 28: 1-10, Luke 24: 36-40, and John 20: 24-29] that Paul of Tarsus was hardly suffering from delusions of grandeur.
Rather, he reported what had been commonly experienced among many disciples of Jesus.
Is it not regrettable that certain persons show scant awareness of that vicious hatred of St. Paul’s soteriology which filled the minds of Nazi ideologues? For it is common knowledge that Nazi propagandists referred to this Apostle as “the dirty little Rabbi.”
Outrageous, yes, but why the abject hatred?
Despite caustic exchanges that marred the dialogue between Paul and certain notables of Jewry, initially, the mature Apostle to Gentiles does make clear [Romans 11] that God infallibly will save all Israel, at last. Truly devout Roman Catholics, such as Edith Stein (St. Teresa Benedicta, O.C.D.), and devout members of the Confessing Church
never did forgot this pivotal doctrine. And I pray God we shall never forget their brave
witness to the splendour of truth.

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By: Reginald T. A. de Vore http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/06/jews-remind-vatican-of-darker-side-of-pius-xii-anniversary/comment-page-1/#comment-8002 Fri, 24 Oct 2008 15:05:27 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/06/jews-remind-vatican-of-darker-side-of-pius-xii-anniversary/#comment-8002 Did not Pope Pius XII once publicly declare of Christians and Jews: “Spiritually, we are all Semites”? Was it not Pius XII who threw all the skill of the Vatican in organizing an underground network which saved more Jews, Protestants, and RCs from Nazi madness
than were rescued by all other relief agencies, combined? Is it not a fact that the Chief Rabbi of Rome converted to RC-ism after World War II, taking the baptismal name of Pius in gratitude for his mentor’s pivotal role in saving the lives of Jews?
Was it not a legitimate concern for Pius XII that Mitt Brennender Sorge caused such unbridled fury among Nazi elite that Holland became a hell-hole of persecution of Jews and RCs, thereafter? I may say, in passing, that an uncle of mine died during the breakout of St. Lo, after volunteering for service in the US Army; his stated reason for that heroic decision to enter WW-II, to help stop Nazi persecution of Christians and Jews. With all due respect, Rabbis of Rome and Jerusalem need to remember the facts.

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By: Daniel Bishop http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/06/jews-remind-vatican-of-darker-side-of-pius-xii-anniversary/comment-page-1/#comment-7614 Wed, 08 Oct 2008 21:29:01 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/06/jews-remind-vatican-of-darker-side-of-pius-xii-anniversary/#comment-7614 Andy, you sure have a strange definition of a “measured response”, this must be one I’m unfamiliar with. When someone walks into your house and proclaims for the world to hear, “we cannot forgive you and we cannot forget”. This person is not expressing a measured response they are actually giving you a verbal slap in the face.

You mentioned that we should learn from history and you are certainly correct. Currently there are genocides and religious persecutions going on all over this planet and yet the world turns once again on its quiet access. This of course showing we have learned nothing at all.

Finally, you mentioned that you believed; if the Pontiff had spoke out, it would have made a difference. Well…that is your opinion and I respect that. I don’t agree with it but I respect it. I disagree because before the U.S. entered the war in 1942 over 3,000 priests and religious brothers (monks) and sisters (nuns) were already in death camps and the U.S. turned a deaf ear to them. The Pontiff knew the very lives of these people were in jeopardy if he had said anything. The U.S. deputy chief of counsel at the Nuremberg war trials, Dr. Robert M.W. Kempner, wrote, “Every propaganda move of the Catholic Church against Hitler’s Reich would have been not only ‘provoking suicide’. . . but would have hastened the execution of still more Jews and priests.”

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By: Andy http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/06/jews-remind-vatican-of-darker-side-of-pius-xii-anniversary/comment-page-1/#comment-7596 Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:35:23 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/06/jews-remind-vatican-of-darker-side-of-pius-xii-anniversary/#comment-7596 To Infonote :

You are so wrong, its laughable.

Right-wing parties are not against religion. They are fundamentalists and rooted in a particular religion. Indeed, they employ religion as justification for totalitarianism. Just look at the right-wing population in the United States.

The Nazis were a mix: far left-wing in many respects (socialization of industry, for example) and far-right in others (xenophobic, racist, homophobic, rejection of civil liberties and the right of privacy, etc).

Two wrongs wouldnt make a right: there may be Christians being killed for their religious beliefs but that does not negate or wipe clean the past actions, inactions or moral failings of other individuals, religious institutions or organizations. That argument is the weakest argument possible. By this logic, I could say that because I dont see anyone praising the good deeds of my father, then Mother Teresa never accomplished a single good deed in her life.

To say the Christians can never by “anti-Jews” {sic} is just irrational. Heaps of historical evidence proves beyond any doubt the error in your claim.

To Daniel Bishop, I say, take a deep breath. The Rabbi’s statements were reasoned and measured. Even if, as you say, Pope Pius XII “did more than any other religious leader” for the Jews, that does not mean that perhaps he could have done more. Perhaps not. But to go on the defensive as you have simply because someone raised the question is a bit reactionary. It is only in examining the past can we better equip ourselves to respond to moral challenges today. If the conclusion is that Pope Pius XII would have accomplished more good had he publicly spoken out, then arent we, armed with this understanding, better prepared to speak out ourselves should we be presented with such a crisis.

I, for one, feel that had the Pope publicly spoken out, perhaps the United States would have been far more motivated to bomb the rail lines leading to the concentration camps. In addition, the average American would have been shaken from his/her ignorance about the genocide being committed across the ocean. That would have been no small accomplishment.

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By: Infonote http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/06/jews-remind-vatican-of-darker-side-of-pius-xii-anniversary/comment-page-1/#comment-7571 Tue, 07 Oct 2008 20:00:18 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/06/jews-remind-vatican-of-darker-side-of-pius-xii-anniversary/#comment-7571 The political situation was not so simple at that time. Righ-wing parties are against all Religions. This means that Hitler used Christianity as an excuse.

Everyone can say, I could have done better than him in that situation but I am sure the Pope reflected well before acting.

Anyway I do not see the Jews condemning Christian killings around the world which is a real genocide happening now.

The Christians can never be anti-Jews since Jesus and the majority of the early Apostles where all Jews. The Roman Catholic religion can be considered an evolution of Judiasm.

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By: Daniel Bishop http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/06/jews-remind-vatican-of-darker-side-of-pius-xii-anniversary/comment-page-1/#comment-7563 Tue, 07 Oct 2008 16:35:36 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/06/jews-remind-vatican-of-darker-side-of-pius-xii-anniversary/#comment-7563 Rabbi Shear-Yashuv Cohen’s main problem with the Catholic Church is that he believes that the church did not do enough for the victims of the holocaust. He admits that the Catholic Church and Pope Pius XII were instrumental in helping many Jews. But he wishes that they did more. I say to Rabbi Shear-Yashuv Cohen that Pope Pius XII did more than any other religious leader of his day and I challenge anyone to show me a religious leader who did more (including Jewish leaders). That is why the Grand Rabbi of Jerusalem Isaac Herzog chose to honor the Pontiff.

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