Anti-Darwin speaker gagged at Vatican evolution conference

March 4, 2009

Pontifical Gregorian University in RomeThe start of a high-powered Vatican-sponsored acadmeic conference on evolution was anything but fossilized.The third STOQ International Conference, called Biological Evolution, Facts and Theories, began on Tuesday at the Pontifical Gregorian University (picture right) under the patronage of the Vatican’s Pontifical Council for Culture.The conference, which has been organised together with the University of Notre Dame to mark the 200th anniversary of the birth of Charles Darwin, had barely gotten underway when charges of censorship and undemocratic and unacademic behaviour began flying.At the end of the first session Oktar Babuna, a Turkish doctor and collaborator of prominent Turkish anti-Darwin campaigner Harun Yahya,asked for the floor to put forward a question. Babuna, a proponent of the Islamic creationist campaign against evolution, spoke about his view that there were insufficient transitional forms from species to species to support the theory of evolution.After he began speaking two professors on the dias, Francisco J. Ayala of the University of California at Irvine and Douglas Futuyma of the State University of New York were visibly irritated. Someone in the hall can be heard saying “turn the microphone off” and seconds later two organisers approached Babuna. One of them abruptly took the microphone away from Babuna and another ordered him to go back to his seat. Watch it all here“After I walked back to my seat someone said “only evolutionists can ask questions,” Babuna told Reuters afterwards. “This is very anti-democratic and very unacademic. If this is a scientific meeting … if you have scientific questions to ask, they should be responded to scientifically, everybody accepts that … if you force people to shut up and don’t let them ask any question … then it is not a scientific theory but an ideology.” The spat was filmed by Babuna’s associate Dr Cihat Gundogdu, who put Atlas of Creationan edited version on the Harun Yahya website.Both men attended the conference with English and Italian versions of Harun Yahya’s super-slick mega-book Atlas of Creation (picture left) in hand. We have done numerous blogs on Islamic creationism, its proponents and its opponents. Some of the links are listed below. But what do you think about the debate and, more importantly, do you think officials at the Gregorian University were right or wrong to yank the microphone from Babuna at a scientific conference?http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/02/05/just-before-darwin-day-pew-reviews-faith-and-evolution-in-us/http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/12/24/a-one-stop-shop-for-the-latest-on-islamic-creationism/http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/11/25/harun-yahya-dangles-big-prizes-for-creationism-essays/http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/10/27/richard-dawkins-rips-into-harun-yahya-and-muslim-creationism/http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/06/19/harun-yahya-preaches-islam-slams-darwin-and-awaits-jesus/http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2008/04/07/harun-yahyas-islamic-creationist-book-pops-up-in-scotland/

196 comments

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Thanks to Mr.Babuna. This is the power of Muslim. real muslims must be like this. thanks…

Posted by Elly | Report as abusive

I find this behaviour disrespecful. It is most certainly unacceptable to take the microphone away from a science person, a doctor, to keep him from pointing out his own view and asking legitimate questions at the public conference which he is attending. This is undemocratic. Anyone should be able to express his/her own view.

Posted by Sarah Roosherd | Report as abusive

Evolutionist afraid from evolutionist. When Turkish speaker Mr.Babuna was talking Futuyma couldn’t say anything. he asked if there is a transitional form show us, nobody gave answer or showed anything. This means tehre is no evolution. This conference is just shameful for vatican.

Posted by Ahmad | Report as abusive

This is an undemocratic issue like Davos. In Davos our pri-minister was prevented, in Vatican our famous dr is prevented. They were only saying that Allah created everything. Why Vatican did not let him to talk?He is absolutely right.

Posted by cemil | Report as abusive

The officials at the Gregorian University are absolutely wrong!If this is a scientific conference everybody can ask any kind of question !This is a very unti-democratic conference, it is also very suprising that this conference is sponsored by Vatican.The creationists couldn’t talk at this conference, it is a shame !

Posted by ceyla | Report as abusive

Oktar Babuna you are my hero. Thanks to God that God created people like hero Dr Babuna

Posted by samed | Report as abusive

why do they thake the microphone away? ‘Cause they are affraid the truth will be known by everyone once more: that the evolution is a big lie! This behaviour proves once more the dishonisty of evolutionnists

Posted by Sarah | Report as abusive

1:0 I’m all for the creationist side. I don’t even understand what the Vatican is trying to do sponsoring an anti-Christ event posing Darwin as a holy man. Shame on you all!!!

Posted by karen | Report as abusive

I am a doctor in France.I see one truth here: Babuna won a victory!this is the victory of faith against evolution,thanks to Harun Yahya, bravo!!

Posted by mike | Report as abusive

This shows how fanatic and undemocratic the Darwinists are. They cannot even stand to hear a question against Darwinism. This also shows, they do not have anything to defend their theory. If they had even one evidence, they would stand there and defend it. Truth cannot be stopped, even by turning off the microphone. Dawkins also had rejected to have a debate with Adnan Oktar. They are aware that they have no evidence to defend their theory, that’s why they always run away! this is the real end of Darwinism. There is no one left on earth to defend it.

Posted by kaan | Report as abusive

If there are no transitional forms, what can darwinists say? Nothing!!! Bravo to Mr Oktar Babuna, he was the one who is telling the truths. The truths knock down the evolutionists there. Evolution is a lie and creation is the scientific truth. hahah how futuyma flees:)

Posted by gerald | Report as abusive

I congratulate Babuna and his teacher Yahya.The thing is it is quite suprising that Vatican can sponsor such a meeting where the faith is denied through the evolution lie! How dare can Vatican do such a thing?unbelievable!

Posted by col19 | Report as abusive

Throw the Atlas of Creation on their faces..Evolutionists know the truth but they can’t handle it. Taking the microphone away at a public conference..my my they must be really afraid of Adnan Oktar ha?

Posted by mikael | Report as abusive

I am shocked of such an unrespectful behavior.No matter who, you can not take a microphone away from a speaker. This is like the Davos case.I am sure the world will react to this, AND SHOULD!

Posted by samuel | Report as abusive

Bravo!!! Scientific MEN!!! SCIENCEPEOPLE!!?!? If you are right why do you intend to reply? Do not you have any reply for no-transitional forms? Donot you have any amoung 100 million fossils? Do not you have any one form amoung 1.5 million species living in the world now!!!????OOppps what do you say about your theory?Listen, science is not believing, but putting your absolute evidence for your theory, your ideas, your etc to use it in your scientific talks. If you do not have any evidence and only you talk with expectations, and thoughts, than someone will come and make you to walk away in front of all attendees. And than it is not possible for you to try to explain your wrong ideas. we have a idiom in Turkish “drawing your charisma” it is impossible to take it back.Please donot intend to change their creation believes of our Christian Brothers. When CHRIST comes, every conflict among them and between us will be solved by HIM. And we live peace and brotherhood all thogether in a wonderful world. You never stop this changes of world.

Posted by Ali Gurcay | Report as abusive

I believe this can only happen in dictatorships. That censorship of Vatican Darwinism conference proves that Darwinism is an ideology without any scientific evidences. Two Darwinists Ayala and Futuyma have proven that they can not respond to any scientific evidence and in fact they have also proven that Darwinism is their ideology and not science.I received a copy of Creation Atlas too. It is the best book I have ever seen. I congratulate Harunyahya and his team for eradicating Darwinism from the world.Congratulations Dr. Babuna and Dr. Gundogdu. Organizers of Vatican Evolution Conference organizers should be ashamed of themselves.

Posted by Roger Wilson | Report as abusive

it isn’t right to yank the microphone from the speaker Babuna. different and opposite ideas should be taken into consideration in such kind of conferences.

Posted by democratic | Report as abusive

Hahah this shows how evolutionists are afraid of truths. If you have something to say why dont you answer Oktar Babuna. You just want to stop him. Because you have nothing to say. Where are transitional forms you are waiting for 150 years? There is none. So that leave evolution away, think twice, everything is created.

Posted by barbara | Report as abusive

I think that this event shows clearly that the evolution is down. Even its most passionate defenders can’t give an answer to a simple question. I greet Dr. Babuna for his courage and efforts, because a creationist to be on this conference is like a fan of Manchester United to sit among the fans of Liverpool on the stadium.

Posted by Baran | Report as abusive

If you have no proof, no evidence the only thing you can do is to prevent people to talk. Because when some people start to tell about “THE TRUTH” make them face off their lies they SCARE!.. Evolutionst scared of the truth in the conference. And they prevent Mr. Babuna’s speech. If the rely on themselves, if there is an evolution, if there is an transitional forms why do they scare? Why don’t they let him talk? Because there is NO evolution, there is NO evidence. They have been fooling the world for a long time. But Harun Yahya revealed the truth and flung the Atlas of creation in their teeth. There is nothing to say more. Evolution is dead.

Posted by Naéla Chuwko | Report as abusive

vatican earn money from christian faithfull people. so why vatican do not let Dr. to talk? Vatican should believe in God and approve creationism.

Posted by steven | Report as abusive

Unfortunately Catholic church is getting away from “Faith”. Vatican’s sponsorship to this event can not be explained anyway. Even the organizers a week ago told that “intelligent design” and “creationism” are nothing to do with science, so only “Darwinizm” will be . This is a shame for Christian world. Cardinals do not let God’s creation to be verbalised. This proves how SATAN is at work at the heart of Vatican! Something must be done in the name of faith so a Muslim Dr from Turkey did so. Thank you and may God bless you!

Posted by dochard | Report as abusive

Shame on Vatican!Pope is supporting Evolution.Vatican is loosing his faith!Jesus!Yes only Jesus, wtih his second coming may change this fall.

Posted by stephen | Report as abusive

Why are they stopping Oktar Babuna, if you have answers let him talk and then give your answers. I think you dont have any answers

Posted by celtic | Report as abusive

The creationist couldn’t talk at this conference..this is undemocratic.Thanks Dr.Babuna

Posted by hande | Report as abusive

Dr Babuna destroyed known evoltionists. Darwinism is dead.

Posted by Roger wilson | Report as abusive

Its already a suprising info for me that there are still some people around who thinks there is evolution. I mean if there was sth like evolution there would be a proof. Even darwin was aware of this truth;If my theory be true, numberless intermediate varieties, linking most closely all of the species of the same group together must assuredly have existed… Consequently evidence of their former existence could be found only amongst fossil remains.(The origin of species page 179)In science people believe the facts. They believe the proofs. Just take a look at the evolution idea. Neither proof nor transitional forms have existed.Also when I read the article I made a research about Harun Yahya. I saw that he told that he is going to pay 10 million dollars for the first person who bring him an transitional form…And it has been months since he said this.So Where are you my friends? Are you so rich that you cannot accept 10 million dollars or there is no transitional form to prove evolution? Hmm.. Yeah second one, I know.

Posted by Pascal | Report as abusive

I’m a Christian but admire brother Oktar. Christians and Muslims must be as one against these atheist Darwinists. They have no proof for evolution, but we have millions of thousands proofs for creation. One of them is fossils as Dr Babuna said.God created as, is it so hard to accept?

Posted by Daniel | Report as abusive

I watched the full video of the incident. they not only take the microphone away but they also literallt try to push the gentlemen out of the conference room, just because he asked a question about transitional forms that they could not answer since they didnt have a response. I totally support the Turkish doctor.I think this is a free democratic world and everyone is entitled to ask opposing questions. If scientist are so sure of themselves and their findings they simple should have no trouble answering any question asked.

Posted by mike | Report as abusive

What does “Vatican-sponsored” mean? do creation evolution have any intersetion points? how can the leader of the Christians support such nonsense? And why everybody claps hands when the microphone is taken? Such things can only happen in an atheist conference. I dont believe that the people there, they really dont believe in God, I am, as a deep believer in God, very very dissapointed.

Posted by Golden Age | Report as abusive

Real believers , Muslims are only afraid of God.They don’t care about what the people think.Congragulations Mr. Babuna. Everybody knows that evolution is a big lie!Mr. Futuyma knows too! That’s why he left the conference. He is afraid of the truth. The truth is thateverything has beencreated by Allah.It is very unti-democratic to prevent people from expressing their thoughts.

Posted by anne | Report as abusive

what does the vatican is trying to do anyhow?! I thought these guys believed in God. Evolutions are like the anti-Christ, they dont respect anything they believe in. I find the vatican very controversial.

Posted by michele | Report as abusive

Congragulations to Mr.Babuna. Just within 5 or ten sentences he hah showed the fallacy of evolution. And the evolutionists had showed the anti-democratic behaviours. They are closed to realities, proofs and even science. Because it is a paleontologic fact that there are no transitional forms fossils. If there is one why they didnt reply to “Atlas of Creation” which has hundreds of living fossils that all proove Creation. Are you sure that this is a democratic platform. I think not. Because a man comes and takes the microphone and then there men come like mafia and take Mr.Babuna out. This is a proof that evolutionists came to the end, and also this shows that there is pressure on Vatikan.

Posted by dinckok | Report as abusive

??I cannot watch the video. Is it just me?Vatican is in a sad state, and should immediately invite creationists too to compensate this big failure.

Posted by Fuller | Report as abusive

Without God, the only way to really resolve this is to let the alpha males duke it out. Whoever is left standing and able to reproduce is the winner…

Posted by Khalid | Report as abusive

The dialogue between science and religion is far from over, and you would think that the Vatican would concur. As co-editor of:Seckbach, J. & Gordon, R. (eds.) (2008). Divine Action and Natural Selection: Science, Faith and Evolution, Singapore: World Scientific. [published in hardback, paperback and eBook formats: http://www.worldscibooks.com/lifesci/699 8.html ]I encouraged critical dialogue after each chapter, including the three (out of 45) written by our Turkish creationist colleagues. Let them stand or fall or be moderated in their views via such dialogue, not by censoring them.

Posted by Dr. Richard Gordon | Report as abusive

thats rude… are there any creationist in vatican!!!

Posted by alistair | Report as abusive

Woooow, well they did what a scientist would do… Right????

Posted by The Conqueror | Report as abusive

What is so surprising about these darwinists?They cant easily dismiss a brain surgeon as an imbecile as they usually do against those question the invalidity of evolution,so they have to resort to physical means to evict him.In any case,this theory is in the last thores of its life,only people like Futyama cling to this due to nostalgic reasons.

Posted by Pinch | Report as abusive

Shame on Vatican?I don’t believe that Vatican had sponsored the censorship. But I believe that the Vatican had sponsored such conference to illuminate us regarding the theories of Creationism and Evolution. Ever since, the Church believes that all organisms were created by God. It’s in the Bible. If the evolution speakers in said conference gagged Dr. Oktar Babuna, it is erroneous to accuse that such act was blessed by the Vatican. Let me bring to your attention that there were also 60 Scientists in Sapienza University of Rome (which was founded by Pope Boniface VIII in 1303)protested against Pope Benedict XVI accusing him for being anti-science. This is a clear example that some Professors in the academe even in a Catholic University are not really that open minded such that they criticize even the Pope!That is why I appeal to everyone to please do not attribute to the Church any negative acts by the evolutionists because its not only Dr. Babuda who had been victimize by such atrocity but also the Pope.

Posted by Daniel Rosaupan | Report as abusive

It is true. I was there and the evolutionists were really irritated. Futuyama attempted to leave the conference. Now this incident is the new evidence of creation because evolutionist don’t have any answers for the lie of intermediate forms and they are not going to ever.

Posted by Samuel Jones | Report as abusive

I am student of MBA and i am reading books of Dr. Harun Yahya since 2005 and I found that they not only call the humanity to right path but also to the true religion of God.I am also surprise on this event that happen with Dr. Babuna. It extremely undemocratic and un behavioral action made by evolutionist. If evolutionist are fooling the whole world by there theory then why not they listen the real truth. I challenge these evolutionist that there effort one day will be deny and destroy by whole world. This event show that evolutionist don’t have ability to listen the truth. And that day is far when these evolutionists will announce themselves to fail to prove this theory.This event shows that Dr. Babuna won a victory. I congratulate Dr. Babuna and specially Harun Yahya who is an International Hero who are working for inviting the world the real truth. I indeed love such Muslims.

Posted by Saad Rafique | Report as abusive

it’s just unbelievable how those “scientists” cannot tolerate any critique or even discussion of the theory of evolution. it was supposed to be a scientific conference, wasn’t it? but apparently it was not so. it is wrong, rude, undemocratic and unacademic not to let a man express his view. and the way it was done at the gregorian university is just shameful.

Posted by cecile | Report as abusive

I’m a Turkish molecular biologist who do not believe in Evolution. I can show you countless evidence with me. But I want to draw your attention to another subject now. As you know 99% of Turkey do not believe in Evolution. But how about the 1%? In Turkey I have never seen such a rude behavior to any evolutionist. Although they are minority, they are the first class citizens for all of us. Because we have opportunity to COMMUNICATE as HUMAN in Turkey, because we afraid of Allah. People are free to speak and free to think. You can never force anyone to do something. It is written in Quran. I feel really very sorry about Vatican because, I feel like they are behaving like taking orders from people. It is already nonsense to make an Evolution Conference on a worshiping land. Because it is like handing over the keys of belief. However,I know that it is a compassion from Allah to all Christians and all believers that if we don’t behave like brothers, like a union of Allah, evil can even infiltrate to our strongholds. We should wake up before it is too late.

Posted by rauf genc | Report as abusive

of course this is not right to yank the microphone from Mr Babuna. Turning the microphone off is really undemocratic. Evolutionist can only do this. They have no answers about the transactional forms. Because there is no transactional forms. This is the evidence of creation. Congragulations Mr Oktar Babuna. We are proud of you.

Posted by Georgina | Report as abusive

Congrats Reuters for the objective news. From here we clearly see the fear of evolutionists. If you can give an answer and defent your faith-evolution why you prefer to brutally silenced Dr Babuna? This is what darwinists do all those years – silence every scientist who dare to oppose their imaginary evolution.But this is the end. We won’t remain silent any more.

Posted by Dilan | Report as abusive

Fossil records are the biggest struggle for the evolunists and this is proved by this conference.Congragulations to Mr.Babuna and shame on Vatican. All the atheist theory is based on Darwinism and the Vatican is promoting the idea.I really enjoyed when I saw the Futuyma trying to leave the conference room. The question was very clear and simple. “Where is the transitional forms?”I also find the behaviour very impolite against Mr. Babuna. As far as I understood from the video, Mr. Babuna is a brain surgeon and he has the right to ask a question.

Posted by Sasha | Report as abusive

Although I do not believe in evolution, in my science classes I have to write/speak the way my professors expect me to do. If I want to graduate, I am obliged to act as an evolutionist. I want to explore science but I constantly feel the pressure to pretend as if I believe in Darwin’s theory. I do not feel that I have the liberty to think and write freely, I cannot follow whatever the evidence leads me.Somebody has to help us… Please..

Posted by Farook Malik | Report as abusive

I have to fake in my science classes in order to pass the exams. I have to talk&write as if I believe in evolution theory. So I as a student feel the pressure too and cannot think/write about whereever the evidence leads me to. I see the evidence of God and keep them to myself. Somebody help me and many others in my position…

Posted by Farook Malik | Report as abusive

This is not a scientific conference. This is a gathering of evolutionists who use undemocratic and inhumane methods to rule out ideas they do not like.Vatican should not have been the place for such an organization that does not include God and Creation within itself.Dr. Oktar Babuna has all the right to represent the fact of creation for the billions of people of faith. But it is a shame on Vatican that he was forced to stop talking through censorship.

Posted by George S. | Report as abusive