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	<title>Comments on: Atheist bus ad campaigns stalling in Germany</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/03/20/atheist-bus-ad-campaigns-stalling-in-germany/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/03/20/atheist-bus-ad-campaigns-stalling-in-germany/</link>
	<description>Religion, faith and ethics</description>
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		<title>By: tomheneghan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/03/20/atheist-bus-ad-campaigns-stalling-in-germany/comment-page-1/#comment-23569</link>
		<dc:creator>tomheneghan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 21:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=4869#comment-23569</guid>
		<description>Dear Schilling (Georg, I presume?)-- anyone who can ask such a wonderful question must be able to read between the lines and see why I like covering these topics! 

&quot;a. Does probability *border on* certainty?
b. If this were the case: would, from a logical perspective, vice versa, not also certainty have to border on probability? (!)&quot;

The fact that this question can also be applied to AAA-bonds makes this a very Reuter-ish issue. Maybe the traders who subscribe to our financial services needed a bit more training in philosophy rather than economic engineering.:-)

BTW, the link to the amusing Studpedia entry doesn&#039;t work. Here&#039;s the URL at http://bit.ly/cvhAEo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Schilling (Georg, I presume?)&#8211; anyone who can ask such a wonderful question must be able to read between the lines and see why I like covering these topics! </p>
<p>&#8220;a. Does probability *border on* certainty?<br />
b. If this were the case: would, from a logical perspective, vice versa, not also certainty have to border on probability? (!)&#8221;</p>
<p>The fact that this question can also be applied to AAA-bonds makes this a very Reuter-ish issue. Maybe the traders who subscribe to our financial services needed a bit more training in philosophy rather than economic engineering.:-)</p>
<p>BTW, the link to the amusing Studpedia entry doesn&#8217;t work. Here&#8217;s the URL at <a href='http://bit.ly/cvhAEo.'>http://bit.ly/cvhAEo.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Schilling</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/03/20/atheist-bus-ad-campaigns-stalling-in-germany/comment-page-1/#comment-23567</link>
		<dc:creator>Schilling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 19:26:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=4869#comment-23567</guid>
		<description>One question which could be voiced in this context (concerning the so called &quot;an Sicherheit grenzende Wahrscheinlichkeit&quot;, literal translation: &quot;probability bordering on (!) certainty&quot;)...:

a. Does probability *border on* certainty?
b. If this were the case: would, from a logical perspective, vice versa, not also certainty have to border on probability? (!)
c. Is the whole phrase of a (so called) &quot;probability bordering on (!) certainty&quot; a serious and scientific one?

What about works, in this field, who cast (serious, scientific) doubt on whether probability borders on certainty?

Furthermore: it does not have to be forgotten that this (exact: these two (!)) sentences (&quot;Es gibt .../Es gibt mit an Sicherheit grenzender ...&quot;) are two *statements*
(in the sense of &quot;Behauptungen&quot;)... 

Generally speaking: Everyone can state everything. 
But how are such sentences to be falsified? What is the way of doing so? 

Again: To make statements and position them in public:
that is one aspect of the actual campaign: scientific???

And: 

d. what about the works of e.g. Dubben/Beck-Bornholdt (Title: &quot;Mit an Wahrscheinlichkeit grenzender Sicherheit: Logisches Denken und Zufall&quot;, literal translation: &quot;With a probability (!) bordering on certainty: logical thinking and coincidence&quot;), a booktitle, which already - ironically - underlines the pseudo-scientific (verbal, flowering phrase-&quot;supported&quot;) &#039;formula&#039; (precise: hollow phrase) of a (so called, erroneously) &#039;probability bordering on certainty&#039;?

e. Furthermore: what about several (!) works of e.g. Georg Schilling (one title e.g.: &quot;Die so genannte &#039;an Sicherheit grenzende Wahrscheinlichkeit&quot;; or &quot;Die &quot;Triple A&quot;-Ratingsymbole und die &quot;an Sicherheit grenzende Wahrscheinlichkeit&quot;?, Grin publishers, 2009) which cast (serious, fact-bound, down-to earth) doubt on what is - even in the field of so called &#039;AAA&#039;-rated bonds - referred to as a (so called) &#039;probability bordering on certainty&#039;? What about these scientific texts?

f. ... Let alone the fact, that one - from a serious, not pseudo-scientific point of view might, e.g. with respect to e.g. Stupedidia (see the entry &quot;an Sicherheit grenzende Wahrscheinlichkeit&quot;: http://www.stupidedia.org/stupi/An_Sicherheit_grenzende_Wahrscheinlichkeit) might as: where is the (implied, supposed) *extreme value* (limit value) of that empty phrase ???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One question which could be voiced in this context (concerning the so called &#8220;an Sicherheit grenzende Wahrscheinlichkeit&#8221;, literal translation: &#8220;probability bordering on (!) certainty&#8221;)&#8230;:</p>
<p>a. Does probability *border on* certainty?<br />
b. If this were the case: would, from a logical perspective, vice versa, not also certainty have to border on probability? (!)<br />
c. Is the whole phrase of a (so called) &#8220;probability bordering on (!) certainty&#8221; a serious and scientific one?</p>
<p>What about works, in this field, who cast (serious, scientific) doubt on whether probability borders on certainty?</p>
<p>Furthermore: it does not have to be forgotten that this (exact: these two (!)) sentences (&#8220;Es gibt &#8230;/Es gibt mit an Sicherheit grenzender &#8230;&#8221;) are two *statements*<br />
(in the sense of &#8220;Behauptungen&#8221;)&#8230; </p>
<p>Generally speaking: Everyone can state everything.<br />
But how are such sentences to be falsified? What is the way of doing so? </p>
<p>Again: To make statements and position them in public:<br />
that is one aspect of the actual campaign: scientific???</p>
<p>And: </p>
<p>d. what about the works of e.g. Dubben/Beck-Bornholdt (Title: &#8220;Mit an Wahrscheinlichkeit grenzender Sicherheit: Logisches Denken und Zufall&#8221;, literal translation: &#8220;With a probability (!) bordering on certainty: logical thinking and coincidence&#8221;), a booktitle, which already &#8211; ironically &#8211; underlines the pseudo-scientific (verbal, flowering phrase-&#8221;supported&#8221;) &#8216;formula&#8217; (precise: hollow phrase) of a (so called, erroneously) &#8216;probability bordering on certainty&#8217;?</p>
<p>e. Furthermore: what about several (!) works of e.g. Georg Schilling (one title e.g.: &#8220;Die so genannte &#8216;an Sicherheit grenzende Wahrscheinlichkeit&#8221;; or &#8220;Die &#8220;Triple A&#8221;-Ratingsymbole und die &#8220;an Sicherheit grenzende Wahrscheinlichkeit&#8221;?, Grin publishers, 2009) which cast (serious, fact-bound, down-to earth) doubt on what is &#8211; even in the field of so called &#8216;AAA&#8217;-rated bonds &#8211; referred to as a (so called) &#8216;probability bordering on certainty&#8217;? What about these scientific texts?</p>
<p>f. &#8230; Let alone the fact, that one &#8211; from a serious, not pseudo-scientific point of view might, e.g. with respect to e.g. Stupedidia (see the entry &#8220;an Sicherheit grenzende Wahrscheinlichkeit&#8221;: <a href='http://www.stupidedia.org/stupi/An_Sicherheit_grenzende_Wahrscheinlichkeit)'>http://www.stupidedia.org/stupi/An_Siche rheit_grenzende_Wahrscheinlichkeit)</a> might as: where is the (implied, supposed) *extreme value* (limit value) of that empty phrase ???</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Trottier</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/03/20/atheist-bus-ad-campaigns-stalling-in-germany/comment-page-1/#comment-11655</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Trottier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:54:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=4869#comment-11655</guid>
		<description>How can you possible conclude from

“There is (almost certainly) no God.” It’s interesting that they add that qualifier,  which literally translates as “with a probability bordering on certainty.” 

that

Could it be they’re not that convinced after all?

The &quot;probably&quot; is crucial to distinguish a methodology based on reason, science, skepticism and open inquiry from one closed down by faith and dogma.  That is why we chose to use the word in our Canadian campaign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How can you possible conclude from</p>
<p>“There is (almost certainly) no God.” It’s interesting that they add that qualifier,  which literally translates as “with a probability bordering on certainty.” </p>
<p>that</p>
<p>Could it be they’re not that convinced after all?</p>
<p>The &#8220;probably&#8221; is crucial to distinguish a methodology based on reason, science, skepticism and open inquiry from one closed down by faith and dogma.  That is why we chose to use the word in our Canadian campaign.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Vande Krol</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/03/20/atheist-bus-ad-campaigns-stalling-in-germany/comment-page-1/#comment-11386</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Vande Krol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 13:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=4869#comment-11386</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting that the author tries to belittle the slogan for not insisting that there is absolutely no chance that God exists.  I think that is a key crime of those who employ faith:  they lie about the extent of their knowledge.  How often have you heard a preacher or any believer say, &quot;there is a possibility that we are wrong.  It could be that this was all made up by men.  Perhaps God does not really exist&quot;?

Atheists (and most everyone else) can be convinced that something is true, without claiming that there is no possibility that we are wrong.

But for a believer to be honest about the certainty of their &quot;knowledge&quot; would often make them feel like they are doing something wrong.  Why do you think that is?  Group pressure to keep the faith?  Why can&#039;t believers be honest with us, with themselves, with children?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting that the author tries to belittle the slogan for not insisting that there is absolutely no chance that God exists.  I think that is a key crime of those who employ faith:  they lie about the extent of their knowledge.  How often have you heard a preacher or any believer say, &#8220;there is a possibility that we are wrong.  It could be that this was all made up by men.  Perhaps God does not really exist&#8221;?</p>
<p>Atheists (and most everyone else) can be convinced that something is true, without claiming that there is no possibility that we are wrong.</p>
<p>But for a believer to be honest about the certainty of their &#8220;knowledge&#8221; would often make them feel like they are doing something wrong.  Why do you think that is?  Group pressure to keep the faith?  Why can&#8217;t believers be honest with us, with themselves, with children?</p>
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