Comments on: An “Indian Bible” or a “Bible for India”? http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/04/28/an-indian-bible-or-a-bible-for-india/ Religion, faith and ethics Sat, 23 Apr 2016 23:25:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: rajeev http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/04/28/an-indian-bible-or-a-bible-for-india/comment-page-2/#comment-13048 Fri, 26 Jun 2009 19:57:22 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=5440#comment-13048 MICHAEL PRABHU:
Ignoring your sweeping judgement on the posts, here are my comments/Qns.

@It is my opinion that, with a couple of exceptions, all comments were uninformed or misinformed because no one has actually STUDIED the New Community Bible [NCB], or their arguments have strayed from the focus of Tom’s article which was the NCB.
-I bet Tom did not expect that the posters are well versed with the New bible.

@With a team of priests [including learned theologians] and lay people, I have led a campaign to get the New Community Bible withdrawn because it certainly not an ‘inculturated’ version as many might think, and because the commentaries contain theological and other errors.
–But why was it released in first place? Being withdrawn because of opposition to the “theological errors” or the opposition?

@We have no problem with Hinduism or other faiths, but we do have serious concern if Catholicism is Hinduised which is what is happening in India. The Kanchi Shankaracharya shares our concern.
–Do you see a danger of Catholicism being Hinduised by the release of new bible or other means by the church. I wholeheatedly share your concern.

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By: MICHAEL PRABHU http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/04/28/an-indian-bible-or-a-bible-for-india/comment-page-2/#comment-12738 Thu, 18 Jun 2009 04:03:19 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=5440#comment-12738 I’m sorry that I am late. I saw this blog just today.
It is my opinion that, with a couple of exceptions, all comments were uninformed or misinformed because no one has actually STUDIED the New Community Bible [NCB], or their arguments have strayed from the focus of Tom’s article which was the NCB.
With a team of priests [including learned theologians] and lay people, I have led a campaign to get the New Community Bible withdrawn because it certainly not an ‘inculturated’ version as many might think, and because the commentaries contain theological and other errors.
We have no problem with Hinduism or other faiths, but we do have serious concern if Catholicism is Hinduised which is what is happening in India. The Kanchi Shankaracharya shares our concern.
However, contrary to popular belief, the NCB does not have either conversion or proselytization in mind. But who among my Hindu friends is ready to believe that? In fact, what the NCB endeavours to say is that all religions are equally good. Which is what we are also objecting to.
Tom, copies of the NCB are not only sold out. They have been withdrawn from the shelves in many cities after our protests which were widely reported in the national and international media.
Presently Rome [I am in touch with officials there] is studying the reports — and copies of the NCB — that we have submitted to them.
They have to be read from a Catholic-faith perspective or they will not be understood. Four of them are hosted at our website home page: www.ephesians-511.net. Five more are being hosted this week. Another two will follow.
Just this week the Kanchi Shankaracharya has called for the banning of the NCB: http://www.kanchiforum.org/forum/viewtop ic.php?t=2535 [point no. 11].
Thanks and regards, Michael Prabhu, Chennai, India

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By: rajeev http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/04/28/an-indian-bible-or-a-bible-for-india/comment-page-2/#comment-12198 Thu, 28 May 2009 22:33:30 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=5440#comment-12198 @As to Pagan Rome, please read again your history how the Pagan Rome persecuted the Christians. The conversion of Constantine the Great was not by means of violence. Please learn the History ofChristianity in its entirety so that you will not arrive at a false conclusion rajeev.
posted by Daniel

Daniel: Are you trying to tell me that there was no violence in Rome and elimination of pagans never occurred or what? From the details that I have seen over a period of 4 days in Rome and the guides I read and through my discussion all I can arrive at is there was bloodshed and the result was pagans got eliminated. Are you offering me a theory that it was all willingly .Read again and visit again with an open mind–I amk astonished how you missed that if you ever went to Rome.

So you are saying in Australia it was non-catholic Christians who killed Aborig? and then said Oops and same about Incas–kill and Oops!

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By: rajeev http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/04/28/an-indian-bible-or-a-bible-for-india/comment-page-2/#comment-12197 Thu, 28 May 2009 22:23:09 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=5440#comment-12197 @We have a different God Rajeev.
— Posted by Daniel Rosaupan

-Oh, that’s getting interesting. And who is that GOD? Asking since no one is so sure unless what is joking or is enlightened.

@USA became an independent country, this has been built with an anti Catholic foundations.
-How many times you need to be told that you are stuck on CATHLOLIC. I talk about Christianity. caste system is far better perhaps. In other words all other nearly 100 denominations of christianity are irrelevent to you. Talk about Christianity, not just Cathlolics. The issue is not the space here—you are not ready to view from another perspective and in nutshell I am seeing you not tolerant towards not even other reliogions, but other denominations. This is based upon your basic rationale that road to reach the Christian GOD is through Catholic Church. Oh the enlightened one, the facts is all non-cathlolic do not enter Catholic church (and true for all denominations) so perhaps they cannot reach GOD.

My views are based on my experience and I have walked through Rome and payed extreme attnetion to the details and they jump out on you evennthough that was not my purpose. FYI my christian friends here, one family is into theology and can be assessed based on the fact that the guy is in USA on R visa and I have detailed discussion with him.

You are a hardcore guy and that happens in any religion they do not have ears for other views.

And finally in context of the blog, learn some history of India and its all sorts of pluralism. In India, this is the context in which conversions to christianity will happen or will be stopped from happening. The GOD issue is much complicated than the simplistic explanations. What are your views about Richard Dawkins “GOD Delusion”?

Think about Christianity and make Jesus happy. Put less emphasis on denominations even though you are a catholic.

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By: Daniel Rosaupan http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/04/28/an-indian-bible-or-a-bible-for-india/comment-page-1/#comment-11928 Tue, 12 May 2009 00:43:36 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=5440#comment-11928 Rajeev, I understand if you will not be convinced since you made a judgment already. But I noticed that you have no clear understanding between Protestantism and the Catholic Church.

Australia is not at Catholic country. I hope you have watched that it was the Members of the Parliament of australia who asked apology about the Abrogines. And I hope you were able to watch when Pope Benedict XVI visited Australia how the Abrogines loved him.

As to Pagan Rome, please read again your history how the Pagan Rome persecuted the Christians. The conversion of Constantine the Great was not by means of violence. Please learn the History ofChristianity in its entirety so that you will not arrive at a false conclusion rajeev.

As to Latin America, yes, the King of Spain and Portugal made some inhumane acts against the Indios (this is the name given to us who had been colonized). Even in my country Philippines I acknowledge that. But such was not sanctioned by the Catholic Church. The Jesuits were even victims of these Kings when they tried to set up an ideal community true to the teachings of Christ which upholds human dignity and equality. They were suppressed. In my country during the Spanish regime, three Priests were executed for speaking against the King of Spain. I hope you now know the difference between a secular act and ecclesiastical act.

As to you comment on no. 6&7, this is once again came from a false presumption. It was USA who dropped the bomb in Hiroshima if that’s what you are trying to pint out. Rajeev, how many times I will tell u that Since 1700 when USA became an independent country, this has been built with an anti Catholic foundations. Please learn again the difference between Protestantism and Catholicism. There is only one Church built by Christ and not many. Is that difficult to understand? Ever since, America has been hostile to Catholic Church. You said that you are living in America. How come you do not know such basic facts?

@Hymn: “As the different streams having their sources in different paths which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee.”

I will again tell you what the Catholic Church believes. We believe in Unity in diversity. Not uniformity. But definitely, you cannot reach God by worshipping another God. You cannot reach India by taking the route going to Zimbabwe. We have a different God Rajeev. Brahma Vishnu Siva is not the trinity of Christians. For if we do, then we will have same commandments. But as I have said, this forum is not enuf. There are still many things you have to understand about Christianity. You may have a Church going friend, but what he hears on the Church are only sermons. Not theology. You can understand Christianity by delving more into its doctrinal aspect. Watch EWTN that you may have a glimpse on what is our faith

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By: rajeev http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/04/28/an-indian-bible-or-a-bible-for-india/comment-page-1/#comment-11923 Mon, 11 May 2009 15:14:00 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=5440#comment-11923 @My question is, is it possible to have 5 governments in one country? If no, so is religion. you cannot have 5 Gods or religion for one humanity. There is only one creator in this world to whom we must obey all the commandments. You cannot drink the cup of mammon and the cup of God. You cannot serve two masters at the same time. My analogy is just as if you want to go to India, you must take the prescribe route, more so in going with God.
– Posted by daniel rosaupan

–Daniel,
You are used to 2+2 =4 maths. Quadratic eqautions are harder. This extends to religions.

Well if you are comfortable with such superficial analogies of religion and govt(!), let me try. The next question arises is how do you know which is the best govt (best religion). For example, this conviction that one and only one form of the govt i.e, DEMOCRACY, is the most suitable for the world has proven to be destructive. Systems vary from place to place. Iraq may adopt democracy today but this is superficial system. So systems vary and imposing is clear cut stupidity, but even teaching them without understanding the details is ignorance.

Daniel, you did not understand the hymn. It is very simple. Read it again–I promise you won;t become a Hindu!
Hymn: “As the different streams having their sources in different paths which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee.”

Hymn says GOD (THEE) is one, but there are different ways to reach there. It is everyone’s own perception about GOD. All religions thus far know is prophets, Gurus, Swamis, Lords, some by long shot call SON OF GOD. In Hinduism it is so many holy scriptures and the deities and the message they convey that each one follows to reach the ultimate truth. Hinduism can be confusing if one is looking for a simple answer, since there is none. So there are different ways to reach the TRUTH by the ultimate reality the “GOD”. No one has seen the THEE, the GOD. But what you are saying that to reach GOD (you do not define who is GOD), the only way is the way you follow—enter church to board the train that goes ot GOD. That must be something. If that OK, let us say you do not force yourself upon others, but neither you think that theirs might be the alternate way to reach the same GOD than the church highway. This is intolerance. When christians have been given free reign, they decimated pagans, who are also polytheists like Hindus. If a christian can use that violent way at one place, he/she can do it in the case of Hinduism too, except the agreesion is different since force will not work here.
Mahtama Gandhi’s statement were mentioned to give both sides of the coins—what he thinks about Dalits and what he thinks about Christians.

I had lunch with church-going catholic friend in US yesterday. He does not have answers to my questions. Nor does my Indian friends, a couple (orthodox Christians) living in US and are in this profession of church full-time and are here on religious visa. All I get from them is what you say, meaning the most unconvincing stuff.

Have you noticed who decimated the civilizations
1. the pagans in Rome,
2. the Native Indians (Columbus went looking for India and mistakenly landed in America. I guess if he maded in correct India, Hindus would have faced the same fate as Native Americans. Many were killed and the remaining were convereted by Christian missionaries. None of their perhaps six hundred tribal traditions emphasized conversion and proselytization, so it was unclear to Natives them why the Christians wanted everyone to worship the same way they did. Some of the methods used were cruel: taking children away from their families to attend missionary boarding schools where they were punished for infractions such as speaking in their native language. To many, this time was a Holocaust that robbed them of their tribal tongues and traditions and replaced them with empty promises of a God of love who punished with a sharp whip.
3. the Incas…Google to enlighten yourself.
4. the Australian aboriginals. So there were hybrid kids of white australian/aboriginal parents. The forcible kidnapping of these half race kids was undertaken to grow them and mate them with pure white to dilute the aboriginal color(stopped only in 70s). This was very systematic according to genetic principlas. (based upon documentary)
5. Now the tribals in India. Be in denial mode, but it was funny that you are brought in Al-Qaida. I think Al-Qaida hardly has such a shining resume as you through your narrow mindedness called, Christianity Incorporation are spreading in this world.
6. Who dropped the only thus far used nuclear weapon killion so many and mutating the genes to spread inheritable disease through generations. This is worse that what Hitler did to Jews.
7. Who is killing more than 100,000 in the middle east.

Now #1-#7 are starightforward acts of christainty. Next 2 can be said to be political but I do not buy this. I will say that the Christian religion of the commanders (all of them who decisions are christians) does not give them enough strength and understanding to unleash this terror to kill thousands just because they are mainloy non-christians. This is the contribution of Christanity to humanity. Pretty uncivilized, intolerant. Guns/Bombs kill the majority of non-christians and a missinary follows to convert the remaining–this is the general feature.

Tell me this, if a person (Christian) can commit a crime in one neighbourhood against a class of people (Native americans, pagans, Incas and…)?, what prevents him from not doing so in the other neighbourhood (India) against the similar class of people (Hindus and other related people like Pagans and natiuve americans)? Is it just the lack of opportunity and the person is not powerful enough so the person doing with low intensity methods?

Have you ever thought about that list—the contributions of Vhristanity– and cried over this if you really care about peace, love and blah…..? Any stone-hearted person will. It is funny you talk GOD but remember such an immoral history. You need to act what you preach.

That’s why Gandhi said “I LIKE YOUR CHRIST, I DO NOT LIKE YOUR CHRISTIANS. YOUR CHRISTIANS ARE SO UNLIKE YOUR CHRIST.”

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By: daniel rosaupan http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/04/28/an-indian-bible-or-a-bible-for-india/comment-page-1/#comment-11918 Mon, 11 May 2009 04:57:04 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=5440#comment-11918 @Here is a hymn from a Hindu holy scripture “As the different streams having their sources in different paths which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee.” Hinduism says follow your way to reach the GOD. But you in your blissful ignorance say the highway to reach GOD is through the Catholic Church. This is the difference between Hinduism and Christanity.

rajeev, we are now going to the theological aspect. I’l ask u that you may understand that there is only one God and One Religion. My question is, is it possible to have 5 governments in one country? If no, so is religion. you cannot have 5 Gods or religion for one humanity. There is only one creator in this world to whom we must obey all the commandments. You cannot drink the cup of mammon and the cup of God. You cannot serve two masters at the same time. My analogy is just as if you want to go to India, you must take the prescribe route, more so in going with God.

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By: Daniel Rosaupan http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/04/28/an-indian-bible-or-a-bible-for-india/comment-page-1/#comment-11917 Mon, 11 May 2009 04:00:54 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=5440#comment-11917 Rajeev, that is just your opinion that we are deceiving and proselytizing Hindus. You have no evidence. In fact, Hindus are in a better position to explain the faith to the poor Indians than Christians since majority of Indians are born to Hinduism and is the religion that they were accustomed to.

I understand that from the point of view of non Christian, Protestants as well as Catholics are Christians. They are not the same for Jesus Christ founded only one Church, not many.

As to your argument that since I believe that there is only one God therefore I am intolerant, you are committing an error in logic. The Catholic Church had tolerated all religions notwithstanding that it believes that there is only One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church and there is only One God and anyone who does not believe us, we do not compel them to do so. If your belief is true that we are intolerant, we should have acted the same with Al Qaeda.

@ As to your argument that Christianity was born when Hinduism and many other religions and civilizations were flourishing. Were they GODless?

My answer is no, they were not. In the Catechism of the Catholic Church, he who had not heard the Word of God through no fault of their own shall be judged according to their works. And Rajeev, you comitted a mistake that the God of Christians only existed when Christianity was born. For your information, Christianity is the fuklfillment of the Jewish religion. Judaism can be traced way back to ADAm and Eve and from them the Prophets had descended.

@Daniel, Jesus would not have forced himself upon others and you are doing precisely that.

Rajeev, not because we believe in One God and One Church therefore we are forcing Jesus to you. Your logic indeed is faulty. If we are forcing Jesus to you, then we dont have to preach, we will use violence instead since we can convert the whole nation istead of preaching just like what the Talibans are doing. Il give you this example, a daughter who doesnt know who her father is. Years laterhis true father came to tell her that I am your father. Following your logic, the father is forcing himself to the Child. Isnt that absurd?

@“I LIKE YOUR CHRIST, I DO NOT LIKE YOUR CHRISTIANS. YOUR CHRISTIANS ARE SO UNLIKE YOUR CHRIST.”

I admit that the followers of Christ are not perfect for even Judas betrayed Jesus. But that doesnt mean that the Church of Christ had diminished of its truthfullness and holiness for Jesus Christ is God. Our Church is not founded by man but by God for God so loved the world that he gave us his only Son. The Church is for men, not for God.

@Again the superiority of the Catholic Church!!!!!!! “Peace, faith, hope and love.”—I am sure all religions teach that or don’t they, Daniel. Or Don’t they?

Well, truth really hurts. Your answer seems to be anchored on a wrong premise. Superiority is not equal to truth. We are not concerned rajeev to be superior but the truth. If indeed all religions preaches faith, hope and love, then why there are many lies being spread against the Catholic Church? Why there are many priests. and nuns who are beheaded or raped? Many Christians are being killed? And you know the reason? Simply for being a catholic Christian.

@Vivekananda said that India have had enough of religion and all the needy should be imposed is help.

I have answered that question already, that one needs a conversion of heart etc. You did not even bother to refute that because there is a need ryt?

@But did you fix your records that the Mosque in Rome is not the biggest in the world—it is the biggest in Europe—built with Saudi $$$$?

You get me wrong, I said one of the biggest mosques in the world rajeev. I didnt say the biggest mosque in the world. But that is immaterial. What I tried to point out there was the physical evidence of religious tolerance of the Catholic Church.

@#5Ans. Rajeev, assuming arguendo your facts are true, u failed to remember that Reagan is not a Catholic and he is a President of a country who is hostile to Christianity especially Catholic Church. Do not attribute to the Catholic Church crimes which are allegedly done by others.
–Fixated on Catholic again? Did it was done by Catholic? NO. Will you be OK if it is by Protestant and Catholic had nothing to do with it? I guess you will not defend Christianity in that case. I talk about Christianity and you are fixated on the denomination issue.

Rajeev, you are not responsive to the issue. Check what you have written for I copied it in my comment and please do not deviate from the context of my comment.

@Go back to you point # 2, you vindicate me on denomination issue—Christianity is not any different from caste system in Hindus or from Shia-Sunni in Islam.

Denomination is different from caste system Rajeev! huh! Caste system refers to the social status of the person while denomination refers to different sects who fall away from the Catholic Church yet who believes Jesus Christ as God.

@Because you don’t like it the news is not reliable?. How many news you trust without evidence—most of them, right?

Rajeev, I have given you the examples already. Maybe your answer is the best way for you to repudiate the truth that most foreign media outlets are hostile to Catholicism. You are not again responsive to the issue I presented. Please read again the examples I have given.

@That was just restricted to dream. But Pleeeeeeese see the essence of the message than start preaching. Conflict is in your mind. Individual vs systematic.

Again, I do not subscribe to your term systematic. But I would agree if you say preaching is done in mass audiences. That’s more accurate. And that contributes either to the individual or mass conversion rajeev. I hope u understand too the essence of my comment

@Daniel I will be repulsed by the way you describe the scene. Hinduism was there before Christianity came into existence. They were all peace loving Hindus with their own ways (several ways) to reach GOD -you got to do terrain check before you jump in a territory. How much you know about Hinduism to say that your way is the only way to reach GOD.

No question about that. But if you conclude that therefore we have no right to preach what we believe, that is where we will not agree. We have the right to convert people to our faith and we will do this in goodwill, not by violence and deception.

@And for how much he fought for the cause of “untouchables” (illegal name now, called Dalits) he did not prescribe Christianity for them “He said “I would far rather that Hinduism died than untouchability lived.”

That is just his opinion rajeev and we are not bound by it. I hope someday we can talk in person. I understand that what you have in mind about Christians are the lies that you hear from the media. If ever I speak strong words and avoids any euphemism, that doesnt mean that we are intolerant. I hope you will have a friend who is well adepth to catholicism so that you may understand why we believe this theology. Why we believe in One God? Why we believe in one religion? This forum is not enough rajeev. I dont think you have known any miracles that actually happened like in France that even French authorities will not attempt to belie.

@Also read Richard Dawkins, a well known British ethologist and popular science author who wrote “GOD delusion”. He says “GOD almost certainly does not exist” and he defined his GOD Abrhamic religion GOD and talked about Christianity. He said Hinduism and Buddhism are sophisticated. Then according to him, I am not sure what you are spreading then through Gospel. But I say let him feel what he says and let me cointinue with my beliefs.

Again, the world civilization that even Britain is enjoing today was the product of the Gospel. Europe has betrayed their Christian heritage and that’s the reason why their collapse is apparrent. Greediness is an example on how they betrayed Christianity. Till next time

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By: rajeev http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/04/28/an-indian-bible-or-a-bible-for-india/comment-page-1/#comment-11888 Fri, 08 May 2009 03:23:41 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=5440#comment-11888 Tom:
I uploaded a post and did not see yet. Here is the abridged version. Please let this go through.

Daniel and Tom:
Do you know that in addition to the quote by Mahatama Gandhi on untouchability, what was his views on Christianity and Christians. I think they deserved space upfront in the article if we are truly looking out for understanding each other’s faiths (at least quote #1). Or are we being selective.

This is what he said:
1. “I LIKE YOUR CHRIST, I DO NOT LIKE YOUR CHRISTIANS. YOUR CHRISTIANS ARE SO UNLIKE YOUR CHRIST.”

2. In reply to a reporter ho asked him “What do you think of Western Civilization?”, he said “I think it would be a good idea!”

Daniel, I said you christians believe in “my-religion-is-better-than-yours” philosophy. And replied “THE CATHOLIC BELIEVES THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD, AND ONE CHURCH TO WHICH ALL PEOPLE MUST ENTER. THIS IS THE GOSPEL THAT WE WANT TO PREACH.” Wow!!!! THis is even worse than what I thought. That means The GOD(s) of Hindus is not a GOD. Daniel, you (Christianity and related Abrahamic religons) are just 2000 old phenomenenon and 2500 yrs ago Indus valley civilization was existing and existing and flourishing; Hindu scriptures had been writen. Now you are telling us and the world that the only GOD is what you believe in. you are not spreading Christianity, you are using money to spread the ignorance, extinguishing the lasting flames of spirituality.

Here is a hymn from a Hindu holy scripture “As the different streams having their sources in different paths which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee.” Hinduism says follow your way to reach the GOD. But you in your blissful ignorance say the highway to reach GOD is through the Catholic Church. This is the difference between Hinduism and Christanity.

No wonder even a non-violent person like Gandhi used the word “dislike” in Quote #1–perhaps he was thinking at that time about the likes of you.

But tell me why are you so fixated over Catholic hegemony–like alleged caste system in Hindus, Shia/Sunni in Islam. I say this again that I am talking about the whole christianity. Church may say whatever that it does not proselytyze, situation on the ground is different.

Tom: I am seeing the shifting times in India in terms of religion. This religious hegemony will not work in the sense that for Indian society, this whole attitude will create trouble. whatever said and done, Indian society is going to suffer or enjoy all this. The suspicion is increasing in intensity and expanding in the country. I hardly cared earlier, but I do care these days—-not as a Hindu but as a citizen–on behalf of all Indians. To Daniel they may be Catholic or non-catholic, but to me all of them are Indians. As I said earlier, there is aneed to be a shift—Daniel’s GOD as the only GOD is a trouble for India.

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By: rajeev http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/04/28/an-indian-bible-or-a-bible-for-india/comment-page-1/#comment-11886 Thu, 07 May 2009 23:19:36 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=5440#comment-11886 Daniel Rosaupan:
Where do you live anyways, if it is not a secret. I am an Indian in US. I have friends of all religions you name—Hindus, Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, Parsis, Jains, Buddhists. And atheists, agonists.

For all your points, must I say something: You are stuck with the word “catholic church” while I talk about Christanity. I am not convinced that how other denominations can tolerate your this hegemony. This works against your point #2. I am most happy if it is working among denominations.

#1 @Ans. Exploitation and deception is not a vocabulary of the Catholic Churh. My-religion-is-better-than-yours-philoso phy is not accurate either. THE CATHOLIC BELIEVES THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD, AND ONE CHURCH TO WHICH ALL PEOPLE MUST ENTER. THIS IS THE GOSPEL THAT WE WANT TO PREACH. Ours is motivated by truth and love, not exploitation and competition that ours is better as you want to put it.
–Daniel, I did not even expect a bit that you can agree to “Exploitation and deception” as tools sometimes used for conversions—For that one has to objective, which you are not because my GOD is the only GOD puts you in a position of disadvantage. Would you go over and read the sentence in CAPS again. This means everyone else in the world follow the catholics, right by singing the gospel. Then why am I wrong by saying that you are following “my-religion-is-better-than-yours philosophy” Christianity was born when Hinduism and many other religions and civilizations were flourishing. Were they GODless? Or were they waiting for the Christianity to be born to take them to Church to show the real GOD. I can understand it is hard for you to understand and come out of this. But then do not complain if someone else feels he is righteous enough to make you follow his way. Is religious hegemony central theme of Abrahamic religions?
Perhaps Mahatma Gandhi was thinking of Christians like you when he said “I LIKE YOUR CHRIST, I DO NOT LIKE YOUR CHRISTIANS. YOUR CHRISTIANS ARE SO UNLIKE YOUR CHRIST.” I think the author of the article should have asked himself what Mahatma Gandhi thinks about Christianity. I am saying bec Mahatma Gandhi’s quote on untouchables is mentioned upfront.
Daniel, Jesus would not have forced himself upon others and you are doing precisely that. In contrast to your religious hegemony, here is a hymn recited by Swami Vivekananda at the World Parliament of Religions in Chicago on 9/11/1893: “As the different streams having their sources in different paths which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee.” Hinduism says follow your way to reach the GOD. But you in your blissful ignorance say the highway to reach GOD is through the Catholic Church. This is the difference between Hinduism and Christanity.

@#2 Answer. Simple, we do it thru ecumenical dialogue. All ecumenical dialogues between religions are initiated by the Catholic Church. I haven’t known any religion to have initiated the same except the Catholic Church for the core doctrine of Christianity is peace, faith, hope and love.
–I can go further on this but I can say that if that’s so I am happy for you Christians the—I hope your fellow non-catholic Christians agree with you. BUT “I haven’t known any religion to have….” Again the superiority of the Catholic Church!!!!!!! “Peace, faith, hope and love.”—I am sure all religions teach that or don’t they, Daniel. Or Don’t they?

@#3 Poverty/altrusim? That is the reason why we have the biggest charitable institutions in the world runned by the Catholic Church to feed the hungry. Not only that, the Catholic Church pioneered hospitals, universities, science laboratories, international governance, etc, which contributed significantly to the world civilization that even India had benefited.
— Vivekananda said that India have had enough of religion and all the needy should be imposed is help. Why are you feeding the poor and erecting stone buildings? Check your #1 point where you stated “ THE CATHOLIC BELIEVES THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD, AND ONE CHURCH TO WHICH ALL PEOPLE MUST ENTER. THIS IS THE GOSPEL THAT WE WANT TO PREACH.”. So this is not altruism—may be in your dictionary. Although I am not a product of Catholic schools (I am product of good old Govt aided schools/colleges/university and have not taken a penny from any Christian institution, but say thanks on behalf of those Indians who benifitted. But let it be clear this is no altruism going on here.

@Obj #4 THE VATICAN, not ROME, is the CAPITAL OF CHRISTANITY and the seat of St. Peter. Please consult again your history rajeev. From the time of Peter up to 1929, Rome, where Vatican is situated has been considered the capital of Christianity.
–You and I can do mental gymnastics here all week long, but you know very well that Vatican is separate city/nation from Italy/Rome. Pulling out age-old quotes does not help here. But It is not a big issue for me. It was a point I had to make where it was relevant. But did you fix your records that the Mosque in Rome is not the biggest in the world—it is the biggest in Europe—built with Saudi $$$$?

@#5Ans. Rajeev, assuming arguendo your facts are true, u failed to remember that Reagan is not a Catholic and he is a President of a country who is hostile to Christianity especially Catholic Church. Do not attribute to the Catholic Church crimes which are allegedly done by others.
–Fixated on Catholic again? Did it was done by Catholic? NO. Will you be OK if it is by Protestant and Catholic had nothing to do with it? I guess you will not defend Christianity in that case. I talk about Christianity and you are fixated on the denomination issue. Go back to you point # 2, you vindicate me on denomination issue—Christianity is not any different from caste system in Hindus or from Shia-Sunni in Islam.

@Obj. #6 Greek media reports indicate government and church pressure provoked the police intervention”.
-Because you don’t like it the news is not reliable?. How many news you trust without evidence—most of them, right? That bit of news was for you in interest of the space and my time. Well I have score of friends who are OSHO followers and definitely do not believe heresays and I trust them and there is volumes of literature and pieces of that talk about this issue too. Well you give me a good reason to oppose it–what might have happened to throw the guy out. OSHO was no threat to US politically or any other country. You do not want to believe—your choice. Message conveyed from my side.

@ #7 I find it conflicting that while you are against the systematic conversions(sic) as you call it, but not if one day a Hindu suddenly wakes up seeing a strong message in Christianity and wishes to convert.
–That was just restricted to dream. But Pleeeeeeese see the essence of the message than start preaching. Conflict is in your mind. Individual vs systematic. Under normal conditions, Daniel I will be repulsed by the way you describe the scene. Hinduism was there before Christianity came into existence. They were all peace loving Hindus with their own ways (several ways) to reach GOD -you got to do terrain check before you jump in a territory. How much you know about Hinduism to say that your way is the only way to reach GOD. I can afford to live without reading about Christianity since I am not into Conversion business, but you cannot—that in my mind will be a sin on your part. Have you explored other ways before you say “THE ONLY GOD”. I don’t have to. I am fine with your ways as long as you keep it to youself and respect mine. Daniel, this is sensitive stuff—be careful what you wish for. The world is a messy place due to misinterpretation of religion and religious hegemony.

@Let the people exercise that freedom thru their own judgment.
–Not judgement. Luring, brainwashing is the proper word, mostly. When did converting tribals in masses is equal to their freedom to judge. LET THEM BE. LET PEOPLE BE WHAT THEY ARE. FORGET MY GOD IS BETTER THAN YOUR GOD STUFF—It is not workable system. I have no idea where you are sitting. If you are outside India, you are morally wrong since you do not know the long term consequences of the whole thing in India. But I guess all you care is numbers of catholics.
Let it be clear to you proselytism is happening. But I guess you are concerned only with Catholics—but that too does—who cares what it says in Vatican. Ground situation is proselytism by Catholic Church is going on.
Daniel, have tolerance and acceptance for other religions and quit this religious supremacy. You are not spreading light but the darkness of ignorance.
I wondered why Mohandas Gandhi said “I think it would be a good idea!” in reply to a reporter who asked “What do you think of Western Civilization?”. Any idea Daniel when you combine that he disliked Christians—pretty harsh and coming from a non-violent person. Must be strin reason right. And for how much he fought for the cause of “untouchables” (illegal name now, called Dalits) he did not prescribe Christianity for them “He said “I would far rather that Hinduism died than untouchability lived.”

Also read Richard Dawkins, a well known British ethologist and popular science author who wrote “GOD delusion”. He says “GOD almost certainly does not exist” and he defined his GOD Abrhamic religion GOD and talked about Christianity. He said Hinduism and Buddhism are sophisticated. Then according to him, I am not sure what you are spreading then through Gospel. But I say let him feel what he says and let me cointinue with my beliefs.

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