Comments on: Vatican-Anglican: where in the details will the devil be hiding? http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/10/24/vatican-anglican-where-in-the-details-will-the-devil-be-hiding/ Religion, faith and ethics Sat, 23 Apr 2016 23:25:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: kildare dobbs http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/10/24/vatican-anglican-where-in-the-details-will-the-devil-be-hiding/comment-page-1/#comment-21957 Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:33:15 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9243#comment-21957 What kind of idiot would reject a church because it ordains women in order to join one that brutalizes and buggers children?

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By: bellowser http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/10/24/vatican-anglican-where-in-the-details-will-the-devil-be-hiding/comment-page-1/#comment-19485 Sat, 31 Oct 2009 17:20:10 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9243#comment-19485 “Where in the details will the devil be hiding?”

I think the devil will be hiding in the detail dealing with Anglican seminarians. Will they be allowed to marry if or when they become Catholic, especially in the UK and Australia? It could affect US Anglican Use parishes too.

Recently I was in Lituania, a predominately Catholic country, and was surprised to see how the various rites worked together: Greek Catholic, Uniate, Latin Rite, etc. If the Anglican Use parishes corporately become an Anglican Rite Church, one hopes that the US Church can have an equally accepting interralationship between the different Rite Churches in the same Catholic Church.

I know the whole country of Lithuania is less than 4 million people and that there are around 72 million American Catholics. That’s a huge difference. So whether the American church — overwhelmingly the Latin Rite church — can work something out with a new Anglican Rite (or Anglican Use Church) remains to be seen.

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By: Susan Turner http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/10/24/vatican-anglican-where-in-the-details-will-the-devil-be-hiding/comment-page-1/#comment-19262 Thu, 29 Oct 2009 15:10:34 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9243#comment-19262 I have been a Catholic church member for 53 years. I have supported the church with my time, talent, and treasure and have worked to include women in equality in all areas of the church hierarchy. With the hope of achieving a healthy and respectful church for all, I continued to be a member of a church that did not meet my values toward humanity. I have served as a parish council member, a long range planning commission member, and a long time befriender. In light of this recent move to facilitate the disintegration of a church which has moved forward on its plight to include all human beings as equal, I will be leaving the “Catholic” Church and joining the remaining Anglicans who respect and accept all human beings as equal. Please take a stand against the exclusionary and unhealthy rules of the Catholic Church as it exists today. We faithful servants of the Catholic Church need to show the hierarchy that, in fact, this latest decision is a final step in dissolving the Catholic Church and its abuse of power. In a world of people who do not recognize these exclusions and prejudices as acceptable treatment to any human being, we need to support a church that is moving in the right direction. I will miss my church community and what the mass has brought to my life, but I will join a church community that supports my values of treating all people as equals. I hope others will also take this stand and maybe someday the Catholic Church will be a church that we can say we are proud to be a member.

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By: Peter K http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/10/24/vatican-anglican-where-in-the-details-will-the-devil-be-hiding/comment-page-1/#comment-19260 Thu, 29 Oct 2009 14:28:33 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9243#comment-19260 Tom H,
If the choice is between the small ‘devil in the details’ of the administrative hurdles involved with union and the huge devil of a institution that disregards ‘straight’-forward biblical principles, then the orthodox minded will probably choose the little devil.

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By: Gabriel http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/10/24/vatican-anglican-where-in-the-details-will-the-devil-be-hiding/comment-page-1/#comment-19005 Tue, 27 Oct 2009 04:03:50 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9243#comment-19005 Mike, your comment is ill informed. You are correct that on the surface this may be how it appears. However, the acceptance of “(gasp!)” married priests is not a liberalization of the Roman Catholic Tradition. Merely, as was touched on earlier about Vatican II, it is a return to older ways. The tradition (note the lower-case “t”) of celibate priests has been a matter of practicality for hundreds of years. That is, the priestly duties were and somewhat are still very time consuming. It was and is believed that a married priest could not fulfill those duties as well.
Some have also been discussing a “grandfather clause like practice with the ecclesiastic union hopefully to come. Whereby Traditional Anglican priests currently married can be welcomed into full communion with the Holy See but those ordained afterward will have to take a vow of celibacy.

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By: Fr.Gregory Wingenbach http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/10/24/vatican-anglican-where-in-the-details-will-the-devil-be-hiding/comment-page-1/#comment-18995 Tue, 27 Oct 2009 02:55:57 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9243#comment-18995 On the face of it, Pope Benedict XVI’s offer to Anglicans of a ‘Uniate’-type institutional integrity within Rome’s jurisdiction could be a significant step forward in the centuries-old efforts worldwide to resolve inter-Christian schism. Despite their off-and-on dialogical flirtation with my own communion, the Eastern Orthodox Church and churches, as the saying goes “when the rubber meets the road,” Anglicans are after all Rome’s estranged & dissident daughter, between whom there are numerous affinities and ecclesial nostalgia to draw upon. However, having converted 40 years ago from one of Rome’s captive ‘Uniate’/Eastern-rite Catholic bodies, a few words of caution to dissident Anglican/Episcopalians: 1st, prior to the so-called ‘Uniate’ reunions – many of which were the product of Crusades/political-based force & Latin ecclesial intolerance of diversity – the former were fully autonomous regional Orthodox churches, practicing their own heritages of worship, conciliar governance, theology, canons, and pastoral life. 2nd, in many instances, within but a few generations the ‘Uniate’ dioceses, clergy and faithful found that their leadership had – in effecting socalled “reunion” with Rome – instead, to use an American expression, “signed Indian treaties” and were now decidedly subordinate to & in inferior status with Rome and her majoritarian Latin-rite jurisdictions and the Vatican curia. 3rd, their venerated Liturgies and sacramental traditions not only came under Latin scorn; more often than not they were at the very least increasingly “infused” with, for example: statues and statuettes in place of icons & iconstasis, altars against the wall, and confessional boxes in place of face-to-face pastoral encounter at the foot of God’s Altar…the Dominican rosary, novenas and benedictions either added to or substituted for their own liturgical & sacramental tradition…distinctive age-old Byzantine, Slav, Asian and African architecture of basilica, cross, dome and mystical sacred space gave way to Western church usages…to greater or lesser degrees, the Eucharist of family-baked leavened loaves, Communion “in both kinds” for both laity as well as clergy, the “Proclamation of the Word” and “Consecration of Gifts” as Liturgy/erga tou Laou (the sacred Works of the People of God) were de-emphasized or outright set aside in favour of Latin unleavened wafers, clergy-dominant “Mass” etc. 4th, the Roman Pope and bishops of neighboring Latin-rite dioceses “ruled the roost” with their authoritarian dicta, canons & unilateral encyclicals in lieu of the early-Church tradition of synods, local councils, and pastoral consultation…in Roman Catholic eyes, married parish priests and deacons were – as one 19th-century American Catholic archbishop disdainfully complained to Pope Leo XIII – “in no way worthy to handle the Holy Eucharist and to administer the Church’s Divine Sacraments, given that they have surrendered to lust and touch the unclean, inferior body of woman – a practice that we of the Western, Roman Church wisely banned early on…!” So virulent was that attitude, and so fearful that Latin clergy & faithful might thereby become contaminated, that the Irish, German and Polish Catholic bishops on these shores persuaded the Vatican – in flagrant violation of the ‘Uniate’ reunions – to unilaterally & outright ban the ‘Uniate’/Eastern-rite clergy in North America from being married: a prohibition which is in force today.
In view of Vatican II, ecumenism, and other developments, might such happen today, it’s asked? There is much in the Roman Catholic tradition & Papal moral influence which is commendable, historically as well as in our contemporary world. However, the above should offer a caution to those Anglicans, Lutherans, Polish National/’Old Catholics’ and others who are pondering Rome’s overtures. I.e., what Rome offers and affirms one day can just as well be swept away another day in the future by “the stroke of a Papal pen”!

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By: Mike http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/10/24/vatican-anglican-where-in-the-details-will-the-devil-be-hiding/comment-page-1/#comment-18934 Mon, 26 Oct 2009 18:33:13 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9243#comment-18934 No brainer for the Vatican here…trying to pilfer some rich western parishes to slow the loss of their own flock in the west. Conservatives to boot, but the church may have to accepting diversity from those that it swallows, including (gasp!) married priests. ‘At least they ain’t gays’ will probably be the rebuttal in Rome…all others pay cash.

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By: Bren Kryg http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/10/24/vatican-anglican-where-in-the-details-will-the-devil-be-hiding/comment-page-1/#comment-18910 Mon, 26 Oct 2009 10:32:00 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9243#comment-18910 lome:

The Catholic Church could no loner return to Latin mass and other traditions of post-tridentine pre-vatican ways. Before there was a mandatory Latin mass, masses were done in different languages. There was unity in diversity instead of unity in uniformity in the Catholic Church. What Vatican II did was to push the Church to its older traditions which some traditionalists think were “new.” In fact Vatican II tried to move the Church to return to our roots. Remember Jesus did not say the Last Supper in Latin. Traditionalist Catholics think that the Catholic Church was established in medieval times much like some Protestants who think the original Bible was the King James Version.

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By: lome http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/10/24/vatican-anglican-where-in-the-details-will-the-devil-be-hiding/comment-page-1/#comment-18897 Mon, 26 Oct 2009 05:40:15 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9243#comment-18897 The Vatican should do its’ best in bringing back the Holy Traditions,Latin Masses,Arrangement of the Holy altar,Prayers,the reverence,and honor due God in the mass offering of the Eucharist,then check the late comers
for their adherence to the magisterium of the Church.
They protested in the past that they should only repent of that errors and start anew.
I hope the pope,for the sake of those clergies who have personal issues themselves may take upon himself the changes needed before full acceptance.Let us not forget that some Catholic priest also were infected/influenced by novelties,modernism,humanism all the “ism”/

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By: marcus http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/10/24/vatican-anglican-where-in-the-details-will-the-devil-be-hiding/comment-page-1/#comment-18883 Mon, 26 Oct 2009 00:58:25 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9243#comment-18883 While I believe this is a positive step for the church; we are a long way from seeing this come to pass. There so many things that we share in common compared to the few that we see from different points. But in the end the church was torn apart by man – no need to dicuss the reasons here – and men are trying to repair that damage. That is a good first step and gives me hope. God Bless the Catholic church and the Holy Father.

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