Comments on: Lottery system to chose next Serbian Orthodox patriarch http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/11/17/lottery-system-to-chose-next-serbian-orthodox-patriarch/ Religion, faith and ethics Sat, 23 Apr 2016 23:25:07 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: Seraphima http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/11/17/lottery-system-to-chose-next-serbian-orthodox-patriarch/comment-page-1/#comment-23482 Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:27:58 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9660#comment-23482 If I’m recalling my Church history correctly, the night before the Battle of Kosovo, St. Lazar had a dream, in which an angel of God offered him a choice: he could win the upcoming battle, thereby saving the territory of Kosovo for the Serbian nation, but in so doing lose the nation’s Orthodox soul, or he could save the nation’s soul but lose the battle. He lost the battle, but is revered as a saint in the Serbian Church. How do modern Serbian Orthodox Christians know that we aren’t being called on to make the same choice as St. Lazar? — are we sacrificing our Orthodox soul to cling to Kosovo at any cost?

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By: Lottery India http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/11/17/lottery-system-to-chose-next-serbian-orthodox-patriarch/comment-page-1/#comment-22259 Fri, 27 Nov 2009 09:08:38 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9660#comment-22259 Really sad news. i love Patriarch Pavle.

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By: Krista http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/11/17/lottery-system-to-chose-next-serbian-orthodox-patriarch/comment-page-1/#comment-21808 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:08:24 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9660#comment-21808 To comment on the vote issue on the top of the discussion: in Russia before 1917 the case was exactly as in Serbia during the Turkish rule as explained by Predrag Mandich. Tsar Peter the Great forbade election of new patriarchs for the Russian church in 1700 (the year is of memory, you can double-check it). Their place was taken by a toothless bureaucratical institution on the leash of the earthly rulers because it was in the interests of Peter to weaken the church. Only in 1917 it became possible to elect a new Patriarchs and the time of the “Babylonian captivity” was over. Of course, the freedom of the church was extremely short.As to Kirill’s election by way of an election, not the apostolic vote, it may be explained by the fact that the long communist period was very harsh for the Russian church and people outgrew plenty of natural traditions – on the other hand their place was taken by many strangest superstitions. I would be prone to believe that the Russians just found this vote to be less tempting for the people at the present situation. For the Serbs, again, church has been a more natural part of their traditional life – if only for the fact that the communist rule lasted only 1-2 generations, not 3-4 like in Russia so the situations are somewhat different.

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By: Srebrenica Genocide http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/11/17/lottery-system-to-chose-next-serbian-orthodox-patriarch/comment-page-1/#comment-21766 Sat, 21 Nov 2009 15:28:02 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9660#comment-21766 I have revised my opinion about the genocide because it has become clear to me that Naser Oric ( a muslim militia leader who had formerly been a body guard to Milosovic) was a murderer in and around Srebrenica long before the Serbian general Mladic took his retaliation on the muslim men and allowed the women and kids to go free.That alone proves that I was mistaken….it can’t be genocide if women and children are set free. After all it was the muslims who murdered the women and kids in Srebrenica…..the only thing is that those kids were Serbs so nobody mentioned it much. Naser Oric was convicted but he only got two years for his many massacres. That shows the so called ‘justice’ that was being meted out by the international community.It would be funny if it weren’t so tragic.

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By: Srebrenica Genocide http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/11/17/lottery-system-to-chose-next-serbian-orthodox-patriarch/comment-page-1/#comment-21433 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 04:01:26 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9660#comment-21433 PATRIARCH PAVLE I, SUPPORTER OF KARADZIC AND MLADIC, ESCAPES MORTAL JUDGMENTAfter hearing Serbian Orthodox Patriarch Pavle I, who has just died in his 96th year, praised as an “ecumenist” by the Pope and a “man of peace” by the German Catholic Archbishop Robert Zollitsch, Gesellschaft für bedrohte Völker (GfbV) / Society for Threatened Peoples (STP) has expressed regret that the Serbian Orthodox Church’s Patriarch has escaped mortal judgment.GfbV/STP President Tilman Zülch observed that “Pavle maintained very close and friendly relations with the two major Bosnian Serb war criminals Ratko Mladic and Radovan Karadzic during the time when they were imprisoning more than 200,000 Bosnian Muslims and Catholics in concentration and detention camps and 20,000 Bosnian Muslim women were being systematically raped”. The Patriarch remained silent as Serbian troops commanded by the two war criminals destroyed centuries-old mosques and madrassas (a total of 1186) and over 500 Catholic churches and other religious buildings.Throughout Serb-occupied Bosnia only a single mosque was left standing. Pavle, who conferred his blessing on the war criminals on a number of occasions, later sought to gloss over his support for genocide in Bosnia-Herzegovina later with vague declarations in support of peace. Pavle’s macabre involvement is illustrated by the photograph above which shows him blessing Radovan Karadži? (currently before the International Criminal Tribunal at The Hague) and Ratko Mladi? (protected for years by the Serbian authorities and the Serbian Army).“We are still waiting for Archbishop Zollitsch, a child survivor of a Tito concentration camps where thousands of Danube Swabian women and children perished, to show some respect at least for the victims of Sarajevo and Srebrenica”, Zülch added.

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By: Srebrenica Genocide http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/11/17/lottery-system-to-chose-next-serbian-orthodox-patriarch/comment-page-1/#comment-21432 Fri, 20 Nov 2009 04:00:28 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9660#comment-21432 May Patriarch Pavle burn in hell.He supported genocidal Serb war criminals.May he burn in hell.

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By: william law http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/11/17/lottery-system-to-chose-next-serbian-orthodox-patriarch/comment-page-1/#comment-21251 Thu, 19 Nov 2009 16:58:48 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9660#comment-21251 My friend from Belgrade showed me around the city and explained who the patriarch was and what the big church at the end of a long drive was called – St. Sava.She spoke of Partiarch Pavle with such pleading affection that it was clear she wanted me to respect him – perhaps even love him.Such is my respect for my friend and her judgement that I had no doubt he was a good man with a holy bent rare amongsts those in the heirarchy of other religious institutions.Now the old man has died and Belgrade was flooded with half a million people on a working day to say their fare well to a much loved holy man.There are those, however, who cannot allow the mere mention of the nation of Serbia to pass without taking the opportunity to put the boot into it. It isn’t enough to be the only nation on earth who apparently fought a war without sustaining any casualties, without any victims, without any homeless, dispossessed, brutalized, raped or murdered souls. At least any that I have heard reported in the western media. Serbia also remains the only nation who deserved what cruelties apparently didn’t happen to them even if they did! One could be forgiven for thinking that Serbs – who managed to transform themseves from allies and heros in 1945, to enemies and demons in 1990 – had dared to ignore the geo-political, strategically important alliegance between oil hungry America and muslim Turkey and Albania and the proposed oil pipeline through the former and terminating in the latter.Now that sort of oversight will never do….especially when America is looking for a small country to use as a punch bag to prove to bigger countries just how tough it is.

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By: Marko Bozic http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/11/17/lottery-system-to-chose-next-serbian-orthodox-patriarch/comment-page-1/#comment-20670 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:29:34 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9660#comment-20670 Pardon me. Above quote was said by Queen Jevrosima Mrnjavczevicz, mother of Kraljevicz Marko. My slip.

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By: Marko Bozic http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/11/17/lottery-system-to-chose-next-serbian-orthodox-patriarch/comment-page-1/#comment-20667 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 20:24:41 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9660#comment-20667 About accusations made upon His Holiness Patriarch Pavle of Serbia. “We should never be unhuman, even to the unhumans; even if that means eradication of last Serb, and even if I was that last Serb, we should always choose to be human and not unhuman”, said His Holiness during the height of Bosnian War, when Serbs did needed quite the opposite, some serious religious motivation, from earthly point of view. And this is not some anomaly. This is just another way of saying the exact same thing that, according to our mythology that is transferred for the last 600 years, tzar Lazar Hrebeljanovicz said: “It is better to loose our heads / then to set a sin upon our souls.”

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By: Mim Bizic http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/2009/11/17/lottery-system-to-chose-next-serbian-orthodox-patriarch/comment-page-1/#comment-20650 Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:33:13 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/faithworld/?p=9660#comment-20650 “Pavle headed the Serbian Orthodox Church during the breakup of Yugoslavia in the 1990s as Serbs warred with neighbours of other faiths.””…where self-professed Christians — Catholics and Orthodox — did not heed the commandment to love their neighbours as themselves. We cannot overlook the political views of a prelate who could take over the top post in the Church.”I’m shaking my head in disbelief at the reading of these two sentences from the article above.I know of no Serbian Orthodox priest or prelate who speaks/does evil to others. Defending his own country yes. Doing or speaking evil, no. Are YOU the one trying to influence who gets to be Patriarch? “Hardline Nationalism.” You’d make me laugh if it weren’t so sad a situation.When one of the readers above mentioned that you should know more history about the region when you write, perhaps he was referring to something few know about.It’s mighty hard, Tom, to love your neighbor when your neighbor massacred your whole family in front of you, or they die in a most heinous way.I visited one of the “pits” near Prebilovci (near Medjugore) where 500 women, children and a priest were thrown in, buried alive just because they were Serbian Orthodox. The villagers couldn’t believe anything would ever happen to them when they saw the electric pole insulators being painted black a few days or weeks before. That was a signal and on the chosen day, they all died, covered alive with lime and cement. All of these evils were kept quiet, all in the name of “Brotherhood and Unity” when Churchill abandoned Draza Mihailovic and chose communist Tito as the leader.Throughout the former Yugoslavia this happened. Village after village, in Glina, etc. As a child, I always heard adults whispering about such things, but I never quite understood the pain they all felt. You can go to any Serbian Orthodox church in America and there will be so many families who lost members in the same such way. Some were burned alive in churches because they wouldn’t convert. Others were butchered in their own churches because of the same reason. Over 150 people with my last name were killed in their village of Prkos….. age made no difference, from 3 months to 84 years of age, mothers carrying their babies shot in the back while fleeing their fields.However, those WWII refugees who DID escape did make the best of their lives here…..they became great U.S. citizens. No hatred. Just thanks to God for their safe deliverance.But the pain was always there. I remember seeing grown men break down and cry in remembrance of what happened to their families. One man (7 at the time) saw his mother, father, grandparents and sisters and brothers killed in front of him and when someone was going to kill him too, a commander laughed and said, “No, let him live to tell the others what happened!”To this day, there is no hatred, no “nationalism” that you speak of in the same paragraphs naming Serbian Orthodox prelates. Only the desire that it not happen again, but it did. Do some research and find out how the graves of Nikola Tesla’s parents were desecrated along with other atroicities. In 1991 and there was no outcry from any AP, UPI. Reuters, or CNN agencies to mark 1941-1991 atrocities in Croatia’s Krajina regions. It happened again in Kosovo too, before 1991, but few were there to write about it.Patriarch Pavle of blessed memory, lived through those horrors, but still had no hatred towards anybody. He was responsible for letting the thug who beat him and left him for dead in an alleyway get out of jail.I remember sleeping in the new dormitory wing of the Nun’s home in the Patriarchate of Pec soon after the old one was set afire by hoodlums. Even though everyone knew what happened, the good nuns just shrugged their heads and said “It was a mysterious fire.”Let me end with this quote from Matija Beckovic, one of Serbia’s best-known poets. He spoke about the irony of making Serbia the pariah in the world press, in a speech he made in Chicago, November, 1991:“Perhaps there was never a time when more was being said about Serbs, and at the same time less was known about them; never a time when more was known, yet with a more shallowly knowledge and less understanding than before; nor were the Serbs more consciously lied about, more prejudicially judged and more narrowly viewed—all in the name of international law—than is the custom today. Where a lie spreads easily, the truth penetrates with difficulty. And who could refute all the lies, who could gather all the scattered feathers? I come from Serbia that is disheartened, shattered, dazed and isolated—practically her every home houses a refugee, where there is no one who has been made a refugee from Serbia, regardless of faith or nationality. We take pride in this fact more than we grieve over our own misfortune.”

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