Comments on: Bishop Williamson says Vatican-SSPX talks “dialogue of the deaf” Religion, faith and ethics Sat, 23 Apr 2016 23:25:07 +0000 hourly 1 By: archiesdaddy Fri, 12 Nov 2010 12:51:24 +0000 I work on the basis that Mr Wilensky is a nice man, an honest man who writes in good faith and then I say to him and to all who will listen that the Catholic Church has not repudiated any previous doctrines. In that, he is simply wrong. Now, admittedly from many years ago I know Bp Williamson whom I judge not only to be a nice man but also a highly intelliegnt and truthful man. I do not say his is preserved from all error – so he can, indeed, be wrong – but I have never heard of him erring in terms of the doctrine of the Faith. What he says may be unpalatable to some but the bitterness of some orange juice does not mean that it is not orange juice. It does not cease to be orange juice because I do not think it sweeet enough. I choose whether I drink it or not, of course, just as each must decide (if he has enough true knowledge and judgement) whether he accepts the entireity of the Catholic Faith or not. The Doctrine of the Faith is not a pick-and-mix candy stall. You take the prescribed package – assembled over the millenia, you assent to it and you are a Roman Catholic. Refuse it, abjure it, fail to teach it, pervert it, adulterate it and you are something else – you are not a Roman Catholic although you may be a neo-modernist ‘bishop’ of a new church that denies its past, and thus denies itself. Simple. No difficulty there. Bishop Williamson simply passes on what he has received. That is what a Bishop does. He who does not do that is at fault, not Bishop Williamson.

By: danyboy2010 Sat, 09 Oct 2010 16:05:43 +0000 in support of teleogical:from Wikipedia: The Catholic Church was particularly suppressed in Poland: between 1939 and 1945, an estimated 3,000 members (18%) of the Polish clergy, were murdered; of these, 1,992 died in concentration camps.[22] In the annexed territory of Reichsgau Wartheland it was even harsher than elsewhere: churches were systematically closed and most priests were either killed, imprisoned, or deported to the General Government; 80% of the Catholic clergy and five bishops of Warthegau were sent to concentration camps in 1939 and 108 of them are regarded as blessed martyrs.[22] Not only in Poland were Christians persecuted by the Nazis: in the Dachau concentration camp alone, 2,600 Catholic priests from 24 different countries were killed.

Also: Estimates of Non-Combatant Lives Lost During the Holocaust

Ukrainians 5.5 – 7 million
Jews (of all countries) 6 million +
Russian POWs 3.3 million +
Russian Civilians 2 million +
Poles 3 million +
Yugoslavians 1.5 million +
Gypsies 200,000 – 500,000
Mentally/Physically Disabled 70,000- 250,000
Homosexuals Tens of thousands
Spanish Republicans Tens of thousands
Jehovah’s Witnesses 2,500 – 5,000
Boy and Girl Scouts, Clergy, Communists, Czechs, Deportees, Greeks, Political Prisoners, Other POWs, Resistance Fighters, Serbs, Socialists, Trade Unionists, Others Unknown
Table assembled from figures quoted by Milton; Lukas 38-39, 232; Gilbert 824; Berenbaum 123; and Holocaust Internet information sites.

By: teleological Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:24:06 +0000 I am not an expert on this- but surely, someone should be able to inform G.Wilensky of the facts following World War 2, that significant and heartfelt testimony (for saving the lives of countless jewish war victims) was publicly given to Pope Pius XII by several prominant Rabbis (one converted to Catholicism in gratitude!). This was recorded but then quite later expunged from the Holocaust memorial in Jerusalem. Why? (I mean, why the change of heart- when Naziism was so strongly antiChristian also, and Catholics were also put to death in the camps).

By: wickindle Wed, 27 Jan 2010 13:29:30 +0000 Re Wilenski’s comments; the Jews were not historically the first or only target of Hitler’s purity drive. It was the handicapped and deaf who were the initial victims. As Williamson’s experience shows (regardless of whether you agree with his views or the way he presents them) it has become impossible to fully explore issues around the holocaust beacause of societal pressure and legislation blocking off avenues of enquiry or even speculation. This is a matter of serious concern when parallels can be drawn between the Hitlerian ethos and the modern cult of the perfect body which is linked into the easy availability and accepability of abortion. Yet the hypersensitivty around any motion that impinges on the claim the Jews were THE victims of Hitler brings us to the point that it is only intransigents like Williamson that bring any alternate viewpoint which is not healthy for intellectual freedom or Christian dialogue.

By: Ludolphus Mon, 25 Jan 2010 17:37:32 +0000 Cardinal Castrillon de Hoyos, Head of Ecclesia Dei, in an interview in September 2008 had this to say about the SSPX in answer to the following question:

What time do you foresee for the reconciliation with the Fraternity of Saint Pius X?

“I regard as viable the reconciliation with the fraternity Fraternity of Saint Pius X because, as we have often said at “Ecclesia Dei”, this is not a real schism but an anomalous situation which arose after the “schismatic action” of Msgr Lefebvre in conferring the episcopate without papal mandate, even against the express will of the Pope. In my heart I have great confidence that the Holy Father will be able to mend the fabric of the Church with the arrival of these brothers to full communion. Some differences will still remain, as we always had in the history of the Church”.

The interview in Italian was translated for the New Liturgical Movement website and can be found here: -with-cardinal-castrillon-on-implementin g-summorum-pontificum/

So, pace All4Christ, the SSPX are not in schism, nor are any of the Bishops or priests of the SSPX schismatic.

By: AgentOrange Mon, 25 Jan 2010 15:05:23 +0000 I agree with All4Christ’s comments. I believe Rome has made huge concessions for SSPX and now it’s up to them to take the final steps. I think what you will find though is that as the Latin Mass becomes more common place and some elements of SSPX engage with Rome, SSPX will lose it’s core market. Those who seek reconciliation with Rome will head back to the Latin masses popping up all over the place and the hard core SSPIXI’s will end up breaking to a hardcore Sedevacantist group. This has already happened in different parts of the world.

By: All4Christ Fri, 22 Jan 2010 03:55:05 +0000 Wilenski obviously is pushing his own agenda rather than engaging the article, while JasonL’s harsh response is not ordered to Catholic truth and unity. And then there are the SSPX apologists, who understandably see in this thread an opportunity to promote their views.

The SSPX has been in schism since the 1980s. Pope Benedict has been very “ecumenical” toward the SSPX and is sympathetic when it comes to the so-called “Tridentine Mass” favored by the SSPX. Pope Benedict’s olive branch in lifting the excommunications was ridiculed after Bishop Williamson’s scandalous, ignorant remarks regarding the Holocaust. But, the dialogue continues, and hopefully not everyone over at the SSPX is deaf.

This point is clear: It’s not the Catholic Church that needs to “convert” and give up its “modernist” heresy. The Pope has the keys of St. Peter–not Bishop Lefebvre, Bishop Williamson, or any other adherent of the SSPX schism who has said “non serviam” (“I will not serve”) to the Holy Father.

Let’s pray that cooler, holier heads prevail in all this.

By: Anon86 Fri, 22 Jan 2010 02:34:55 +0000 “Your ancestors sealed your fate when they chose Barabbas, a choice that continues to be made, as evidenced by your despicable post and link.”

Honestly, JasonL.

Wilensky posts a link referring to the racist hate that many catholics feel towards the Jewish people, and you reply with a comment like that? All you have done is proven his point.

And the Jewish people are not persecuting your church because of its faith.

They are persecuting your church because it stood by while people were being shoveled into ovens. That was the choice YOUR church made, nobody else.

And because of that, the fate of your holy church is sealed. Because no matter how it tries, history will not be overwritten or ignored, but remembered.

By: JasonL Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:03:15 +0000 Mr. Wilensky your comments are ignorant, and offensive.

Modern Jews like yourself continue to persecute and crucify the body of Christ, his Holy Catholic Church. That’s the choice YOU make, nobody else.

Your ancestors sealed your fate when they chose Barabbas, a choice that continues to be made, as evidenced by your despicable post and link.

Your fate in the eyes of the Lord was crafted by YOU, nobody else.

By: Eduardus Thu, 21 Jan 2010 13:35:29 +0000 Bishop Williamson’s assessment of the discussions and meetings between the SSPX and the current occupants of the Vatican is certainly correct. The modernists in Rome have no intension of negating the control of the church they won in the revolution following Vatican II.