http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/ A slice of lime in the soda Thu, 20 Jun 2013 06:01:09 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-9602 Richie Rich Thu, 03 Dec 2009 20:48:36 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/#comment-9602 There was a class war. We (the rich) won. Ha Ha. There was a class war. We (the rich) won. Ha Ha.

]]> http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-9600 Mike Thu, 03 Dec 2009 20:23:34 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/#comment-9600 You still haven't shown, liberal, how upwardly transferred rent exceeds the tens of billions transferred yearly in the form of entitlements from the middle and working classes downward to benefit-seeking parasites a/k/a "the underprivileged." The productive get it from two directions. You still haven’t shown, liberal, how upwardly transferred rent exceeds the tens of billions transferred yearly in the form of entitlements from the middle and working classes downward to benefit-seeking parasites a/k/a “the underprivileged.” The productive get it from two directions.

]]> http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-9597 LittlePig Thu, 03 Dec 2009 20:07:10 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/#comment-9597 <i>Why is it important that corporate executives and successful bankers make salaries that normal people “can relate to”? </i>Because, dear Dave, *I* as a taxpayer have to pay the tab when the Ponzi scheme goes smash. That's what folks mean by "heads I win, tails you lose" - the current system has transferred the risk to the government.All I can get from your side is that you think these big executives should be rewarded for devising ways to transfer risk to the government. By the same token, you should approve of successful mafiosi and drug lords, since they too have made scads of money by finding successful ways to game the system. If that is what you believe, that's all well and good, but don't expect taxpayers like myself to cheer them on.Athletes aren't getting bi-weekly cuts from my paycheck to get their big bucks. These executives are. That's why it is important to bring their salaries down to reasonable levels IF WE HAVE TO BAIL THEM OUT. Government exists to benefit the governed - when the governed are fiscally liable, they have every right to punish bad performers. Why is it important that corporate executives and successful bankers make salaries that normal people “can relate to”? Because, dear Dave, *I* as a taxpayer have to pay the tab when the Ponzi scheme goes smash. That’s what folks mean by “heads I win, tails you lose” – the current system has transferred the risk to the government.All I can get from your side is that you think these big executives should be rewarded for devising ways to transfer risk to the government. By the same token, you should approve of successful mafiosi and drug lords, since they too have made scads of money by finding successful ways to game the system. If that is what you believe, that’s all well and good, but don’t expect taxpayers like myself to cheer them on.Athletes aren’t getting bi-weekly cuts from my paycheck to get their big bucks. These executives are. That’s why it is important to bring their salaries down to reasonable levels IF WE HAVE TO BAIL THEM OUT. Government exists to benefit the governed – when the governed are fiscally liable, they have every right to punish bad performers.

]]> http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-9592 Grytpype Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:29:58 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/#comment-9592 Tax the shit out of them.Go back to Eisenhower marginal rates for income over one million a year. Tax the shit out of them.Go back to Eisenhower marginal rates for income over one million a year.

]]> http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-9591 liberal Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:21:37 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/#comment-9591 Dave wrote, "And if you don’t like what these companies are paying their employees, vote with your wallet. Don’t use their products or services. Don’t buy their securities or invest in funds that own them. Don’t allow your pension to be invested in them."LOL!The little guy faces a much harder collective action problem than the banksters do.The _only_ way (empirically speaking) for the little guy to solve his collection action problem is via government action. Dave wrote, “And if you don’t like what these companies are paying their employees, vote with your wallet. Don’t use their products or services. Don’t buy their securities or invest in funds that own them. Don’t allow your pension to be invested in them.”LOL!The little guy faces a much harder collective action problem than the banksters do.The _only_ way (empirically speaking) for the little guy to solve his collection action problem is via government action.

]]> http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-9590 liberal Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:19:55 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/#comment-9590 Dave wrote, "I can’t “relate” to the amount earned by many professional athletes and entertainers, many people probably can’t “relate” to what I make, and many people in other countries will never “relate” to what the average American earns. I’m not sure why any of that is, in itself, a problem."The point is that the taxpayer is funding outsized salaries in the FIRE sector. The entire sector is one giant parasitic rent-collecting rathole. Thus, salaries in the FIRE sector are not earned, but rather stolen.Professional athletes earn their salaries, except to the extent that the professional sports sector as a whole is on the public teat in the form of public funding for stadiums, etc. Dave wrote, “I can’t “relate” to the amount earned by many professional athletes and entertainers, many people probably can’t “relate” to what I make, and many people in other countries will never “relate” to what the average American earns. I’m not sure why any of that is, in itself, a problem.”The point is that the taxpayer is funding outsized salaries in the FIRE sector. The entire sector is one giant parasitic rent-collecting rathole. Thus, salaries in the FIRE sector are not earned, but rather stolen.Professional athletes earn their salaries, except to the extent that the professional sports sector as a whole is on the public teat in the form of public funding for stadiums, etc.

]]> http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-9589 MDC Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:17:29 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/#comment-9589 What Dollared said.The class warfare since 1980 has been unrelenting, and waged by the rich against the poor and middle class. The bank bailouts seem to have been contrived at every step to perpetuate this situation.God forbid the bottom 95% get in a few good licks of their own against the elite. What Dollared said.The class warfare since 1980 has been unrelenting, and waged by the rich against the poor and middle class. The bank bailouts seem to have been contrived at every step to perpetuate this situation.God forbid the bottom 95% get in a few good licks of their own against the elite.

]]> http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-9588 liberal Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:16:51 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/#comment-9588 Drewbie wrote, "Not every banker is a crook, and some of them deserved their pay."Nope.(1) The banks and shadow banks get options for free, in the form of implicit government guarantees.(2) Actual banks are granted the privilege to create money out of thin air, loan it, and pocket the interest. Drewbie wrote, “Not every banker is a crook, and some of them deserved their pay.”Nope.(1) The banks and shadow banks get options for free, in the form of implicit government guarantees.(2) Actual banks are granted the privilege to create money out of thin air, loan it, and pocket the interest.

]]> http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-9587 liberal Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:14:34 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/#comment-9587 Mike wrote, "There’s at least as much wealth being distributed downward from the productive to the low/no income unproductive than there is being transferred upward."Nope.First, let's note that those in the FIRE sector are not productive, but rent-seeking parasites.Second, most of the wealth transfers from the productive are _upwards_, since most such transfers are in the form of payment of economic rent, and most (on a dollar-weighted basis; not all) rent collectors are relativel wealthy. Mike wrote, “There’s at least as much wealth being distributed downward from the productive to the low/no income unproductive than there is being transferred upward.”Nope.First, let’s note that those in the FIRE sector are not productive, but rent-seeking parasites.Second, most of the wealth transfers from the productive are _upwards_, since most such transfers are in the form of payment of economic rent, and most (on a dollar-weighted basis; not all) rent collectors are relativel wealthy.

]]> http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-9586 Suz Thu, 03 Dec 2009 19:05:16 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/#comment-9586 That these bankers are actually "producing" something is false. They only produce methods of gaming the banking and financial systems to maximize their bonuses. I'm all for real capitalism, this isn't it. It's corporatism - socialize the losses, privatize the profits. That these bankers are actually “producing” something is false. They only produce methods of gaming the banking and financial systems to maximize their bonuses. I’m all for real capitalism, this isn’t it. It’s corporatism – socialize the losses, privatize the profits.

]]> http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-9585 Mike Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:56:00 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/#comment-9585 Those who throw about words like "plutocrat" are usually those who dream about, or proselytize for, class warfare.There's at least as much wealth being distributed downward from the productive to the low/no income unproductive than there is being transferred upward. Those who throw about words like “plutocrat” are usually those who dream about, or proselytize for, class warfare.There’s at least as much wealth being distributed downward from the productive to the low/no income unproductive than there is being transferred upward.

]]> http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-9584 Suz Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:53:44 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/#comment-9584 Class warfare has already started and the plutocrats won. Class warfare has already started and the plutocrats won.

]]> http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-9583 Dave in NYC Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:47:39 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/#comment-9583 And if you don't like what these companies are paying their employees, vote with your wallet. Don't use their products or services. Don't buy their securities or invest in funds that own them. Don't allow your pension to be invested in them. And if you don’t like what these companies are paying their employees, vote with your wallet. Don’t use their products or services. Don’t buy their securities or invest in funds that own them. Don’t allow your pension to be invested in them.

]]> http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-9582 Dave in NYC Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:37:54 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/#comment-9582 <i>The rest of us see a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to bring executive pay down to the kind of levels which normal human beings can relate to.</i>Why is it important that corporate executives and successful bankers make salaries that normal people "can relate to"? What does being able to "relate" to someone's salary really mean?I can't "relate" to the amount earned by many professional athletes and entertainers, many people probably can't "relate" to what I make, and many people in other countries will never "relate" to what the average American earns. I'm not sure why any of that is, in itself, a problem. The rest of us see a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to bring executive pay down to the kind of levels which normal human beings can relate to.Why is it important that corporate executives and successful bankers make salaries that normal people “can relate to”? What does being able to “relate” to someone’s salary really mean?I can’t “relate” to the amount earned by many professional athletes and entertainers, many people probably can’t “relate” to what I make, and many people in other countries will never “relate” to what the average American earns. I’m not sure why any of that is, in itself, a problem.

]]> http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/comment-page-1/#comment-9580 cjhyde Thu, 03 Dec 2009 18:15:18 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2009/12/03/the-return-of-the-plutocrats/#comment-9580 it's completely stunning to me that in a country whose political parties have both been corporate captured for years that anyone actually felt that anything was really going to change in the first place it’s completely stunning to me that in a country whose political parties have both been corporate captured for years that anyone actually felt that anything was really going to change in the first place

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