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	<title>Comments on: How JP Morgan treats its clients: scandalously and in bad faith</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/02/18/how-jp-morgan-treats-its-clients-scandalously-and-in-bad-faith/</link>
	<description>A slice of lime in the soda</description>
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		<title>By: rhomes</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/02/18/how-jp-morgan-treats-its-clients-scandalously-and-in-bad-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-32026</link>
		<dc:creator>rhomes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Oct 2011 14:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=2621#comment-32026</guid>
		<description>Let me tell you what Morgan Stanley did to me.  I put $1,000.00 in a Roth IRA about 10 years ago with them.  The market has flexed as everyone is aware, but now MSSB has installed a minimum balance fee, before I noticed it and transferred the account (for which they have a %95.00 closing fee) they had debited the account for all she was worth.  I will never EVER use Morgan Stanley Smith Barney for the rest of my days.  What they have done is essentially legalized stealing.  I wish others with the same issues would come together with me in a class action against them.  Robert - Long Beach, MS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me tell you what Morgan Stanley did to me.  I put $1,000.00 in a Roth IRA about 10 years ago with them.  The market has flexed as everyone is aware, but now MSSB has installed a minimum balance fee, before I noticed it and transferred the account (for which they have a %95.00 closing fee) they had debited the account for all she was worth.  I will never EVER use Morgan Stanley Smith Barney for the rest of my days.  What they have done is essentially legalized stealing.  I wish others with the same issues would come together with me in a class action against them.  Robert &#8211; Long Beach, MS</p>
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		<title>By: larch</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/02/18/how-jp-morgan-treats-its-clients-scandalously-and-in-bad-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-12218</link>
		<dc:creator>larch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=2621#comment-12218</guid>
		<description>One further point. Not much attention has been paid to what confidential information, if any, was available to JPM and Inbursa.  Televisa itself has told Inbursa directly that there was no private information supplied to banks - not unusual for strong companies - and on that basis JPM would have had a tough time asking for anything extra (&quot;reasonable&#039; request would not go beyond company practice unless there was a real credit problem).

That is not to say that the whole idea of Inbursa being a lender isn&#039;t a cause Televisa to stop and wonder but it is hardly the immediate catastrophe Televisa suggests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One further point. Not much attention has been paid to what confidential information, if any, was available to JPM and Inbursa.  Televisa itself has told Inbursa directly that there was no private information supplied to banks &#8211; not unusual for strong companies &#8211; and on that basis JPM would have had a tough time asking for anything extra (&#8220;reasonable&#8217; request would not go beyond company practice unless there was a real credit problem).</p>
<p>That is not to say that the whole idea of Inbursa being a lender isn&#8217;t a cause Televisa to stop and wonder but it is hardly the immediate catastrophe Televisa suggests.</p>
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		<title>By: larch</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/02/18/how-jp-morgan-treats-its-clients-scandalously-and-in-bad-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-12217</link>
		<dc:creator>larch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 22:03:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=2621#comment-12217</guid>
		<description>After reading the materials it is not as clear cut as you say.

Apart from the first call to Philips, JPM&#039;s dialogue with Televisa seems to be well documented and it is not at all clear that Televisa was in a panic about confidential information.  They were clearly aware of the dialogue with Inbursa and curiously seem to have been negotiating directly with Inbursa themselves. And Salvi Foch also thought the loan was an attractive buy.

Interestingly no one, including you, has commented on the 22% stake in Cablevision that Inbursa holds.  First, what information and board representation do they already get because of that?  Second if the deeply discounted loan was attractive to Televisa as majority owner, why would it not be to Inbursa?  Apart from their own ownership stake, Inbursa would have benefited from the implicit support of Televisa (Televisa probably has cross defaults and accelerations in it loan and bond agreements tied to its subs).

Inbursa is well known for making large, aggressive credit plays in situations where it can arbitrage the international bank practices vs its own strong credit views and more flexible credit allocation practice.  In this case they could get a local big name credit cheap because capital restrictions made foreign banks less able to invest in asset plays rather than relationship lending.  Also many banks cant hold that kind of large bilateral term loan; their internal rules require syndication.  So JPM probably had to firesale the loan and Inbursa saw a deal yielding much more than other Cablebision and Televisa debt.

Separately, amending a standard participation agreement is not prima facie grounds for assuming skulduggery.  Most large financial outfits have standard templates for contracts which then get negotiated; some things cannot be changed and others can. No surprise Inbursa wanted to get as many lender rights as it could, and that JPM stuck on the items which would break the loan agreement.

Hard to be sure until both sides get to argue fully in court but there is at least a case here that Televisa reacted only when it lost out to Inbursa, or when someone very senior above Foch learnt about this and had a cow about the Slim link. Either way it would seem that you have taken the easy approach of taking the fashionable bank attack route rather than dig a bit and look at the possibility that there is a more cpmplex but equally juicy story which might still trip up some people at JPM but also at Televisa.

P.S. Your dismissal of the JPM document as &quot;narrowly legalistic&quot; is hyperbole.  What else would it be?  JPM is making a legal case, not writing an article. And it is pretty standard for this type of submission just as Rakoff&#039;s admittedly racy ruling is standard. There is a lot of information that you simply ignore which is pretty sloppy because it raises lots of unanswered questions which would have made your article more interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After reading the materials it is not as clear cut as you say.</p>
<p>Apart from the first call to Philips, JPM&#8217;s dialogue with Televisa seems to be well documented and it is not at all clear that Televisa was in a panic about confidential information.  They were clearly aware of the dialogue with Inbursa and curiously seem to have been negotiating directly with Inbursa themselves. And Salvi Foch also thought the loan was an attractive buy.</p>
<p>Interestingly no one, including you, has commented on the 22% stake in Cablevision that Inbursa holds.  First, what information and board representation do they already get because of that?  Second if the deeply discounted loan was attractive to Televisa as majority owner, why would it not be to Inbursa?  Apart from their own ownership stake, Inbursa would have benefited from the implicit support of Televisa (Televisa probably has cross defaults and accelerations in it loan and bond agreements tied to its subs).</p>
<p>Inbursa is well known for making large, aggressive credit plays in situations where it can arbitrage the international bank practices vs its own strong credit views and more flexible credit allocation practice.  In this case they could get a local big name credit cheap because capital restrictions made foreign banks less able to invest in asset plays rather than relationship lending.  Also many banks cant hold that kind of large bilateral term loan; their internal rules require syndication.  So JPM probably had to firesale the loan and Inbursa saw a deal yielding much more than other Cablebision and Televisa debt.</p>
<p>Separately, amending a standard participation agreement is not prima facie grounds for assuming skulduggery.  Most large financial outfits have standard templates for contracts which then get negotiated; some things cannot be changed and others can. No surprise Inbursa wanted to get as many lender rights as it could, and that JPM stuck on the items which would break the loan agreement.</p>
<p>Hard to be sure until both sides get to argue fully in court but there is at least a case here that Televisa reacted only when it lost out to Inbursa, or when someone very senior above Foch learnt about this and had a cow about the Slim link. Either way it would seem that you have taken the easy approach of taking the fashionable bank attack route rather than dig a bit and look at the possibility that there is a more cpmplex but equally juicy story which might still trip up some people at JPM but also at Televisa.</p>
<p>P.S. Your dismissal of the JPM document as &#8220;narrowly legalistic&#8221; is hyperbole.  What else would it be?  JPM is making a legal case, not writing an article. And it is pretty standard for this type of submission just as Rakoff&#8217;s admittedly racy ruling is standard. There is a lot of information that you simply ignore which is pretty sloppy because it raises lots of unanswered questions which would have made your article more interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: MaxKennerly</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/02/18/how-jp-morgan-treats-its-clients-scandalously-and-in-bad-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-12154</link>
		<dc:creator>MaxKennerly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 14:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=2621#comment-12154</guid>
		<description>Nice find, Felix. As I blogged this morning ( http://bit.ly/9qXCPZ ), JP Morgan&#039;s silence on the facts is telling. It&#039;s not as if they had no opportunity to respond:

&quot;Since JPMorgan moved for summary judgment pursuant to Fed. R. Civ. P. 56, they, like Televisa, were entitled to submit affidavits in support of their position, and it appears they submitted declarations from &quot;Sheldon L. Pollock&quot; and &quot;Jaquelina Truzzell.&quot; Both declarations have been unsealed by Judge Rakoff&#039;s order, but neither is on the docket.

I doubt the declarations say much; JPMorgan&#039;s memorandum of law primarily references the Pollock and Truzzell declarations when discussing side matters, like telephone calls and Televisa&#039;s motives for opposing the assignment / participation. Truzzell apparently affirms there are &quot;no side agreements&quot; with Inbursa and that JPMorgan would not release &quot;confidential&quot; information, but that&#039;s it. There&#039;s nothing about how JPMorgan came to participation terms with Inbursa that, at least on their face, entitle Inbursa to a treasure trove of information about Televisa, far more than provided by JPMorgan&#039;s standard participation agreement.

Which I find telling. Though the standard response of most defendants is — for tactical reasons like avoiding getting pinned down to a particular version of events — to &quot;deny and delay&quot; rather than to come forth with an affirmative opposition, under the facts here, JPMorgan really needed to make a better showing. ...

Such silence could be, in part, an attempt by JPMorgan to protect Inbursa&#039;s confidences, which arguably would have been appropriate. (I say &quot;arguably&quot; because the totality of the circumstances here — primarily Inbursa&#039;s attempt to negotiate terms more favorable than those typically provided by a participation agreement — imply that Inbursa has waived its right to keep those discussions confidential from Televisa.) But there&#039;s nothing on the docket reflecting an attempt to have Judge Rakoff review any pertinent materials in camera, and so there&#039;s no reason for us to speculate that JPMorgan&#039;s silence was a product of confidentiality.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice find, Felix. As I blogged this morning ( <a href='http://bit.ly/9qXCPZ'>http://bit.ly/9qXCPZ</a> ), JP Morgan&#8217;s silence on the facts is telling. It&#8217;s not as if they had no opportunity to respond:</p>
<p>&#8220;Since JPMorgan moved for summary judgment pursuant to Fed. R. Civ. P. 56, they, like Televisa, were entitled to submit affidavits in support of their position, and it appears they submitted declarations from &#8220;Sheldon L. Pollock&#8221; and &#8220;Jaquelina Truzzell.&#8221; Both declarations have been unsealed by Judge Rakoff&#8217;s order, but neither is on the docket.</p>
<p>I doubt the declarations say much; JPMorgan&#8217;s memorandum of law primarily references the Pollock and Truzzell declarations when discussing side matters, like telephone calls and Televisa&#8217;s motives for opposing the assignment / participation. Truzzell apparently affirms there are &#8220;no side agreements&#8221; with Inbursa and that JPMorgan would not release &#8220;confidential&#8221; information, but that&#8217;s it. There&#8217;s nothing about how JPMorgan came to participation terms with Inbursa that, at least on their face, entitle Inbursa to a treasure trove of information about Televisa, far more than provided by JPMorgan&#8217;s standard participation agreement.</p>
<p>Which I find telling. Though the standard response of most defendants is — for tactical reasons like avoiding getting pinned down to a particular version of events — to &#8220;deny and delay&#8221; rather than to come forth with an affirmative opposition, under the facts here, JPMorgan really needed to make a better showing. &#8230;</p>
<p>Such silence could be, in part, an attempt by JPMorgan to protect Inbursa&#8217;s confidences, which arguably would have been appropriate. (I say &#8220;arguably&#8221; because the totality of the circumstances here — primarily Inbursa&#8217;s attempt to negotiate terms more favorable than those typically provided by a participation agreement — imply that Inbursa has waived its right to keep those discussions confidential from Televisa.) But there&#8217;s nothing on the docket reflecting an attempt to have Judge Rakoff review any pertinent materials in camera, and so there&#8217;s no reason for us to speculate that JPMorgan&#8217;s silence was a product of confidentiality.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: manbelbrot</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/02/18/how-jp-morgan-treats-its-clients-scandalously-and-in-bad-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-12150</link>
		<dc:creator>manbelbrot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=2621#comment-12150</guid>
		<description>The phrase &quot;criminal enterprise&quot; comes to mind.  The blatant willingness to ignore fiduciary and contractual duty is, to me, not just contemptible, but criminal in the very legal sense of the word.  Ah, but special rules for the TARP hand-maidens.  And some in the banking world still cannot understand why many now refer to them as &quot;banksters?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The phrase &#8220;criminal enterprise&#8221; comes to mind.  The blatant willingness to ignore fiduciary and contractual duty is, to me, not just contemptible, but criminal in the very legal sense of the word.  Ah, but special rules for the TARP hand-maidens.  And some in the banking world still cannot understand why many now refer to them as &#8220;banksters?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Rudovsky</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/02/18/how-jp-morgan-treats-its-clients-scandalously-and-in-bad-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-12136</link>
		<dc:creator>Rudovsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:50:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=2621#comment-12136</guid>
		<description>This is the exact same Carlos Slim who invested $250 million in the NY Times in either 2008 or 2009.  Funny thing, the great NY Times (which prints &quot;all the news it deems fir to print&quot;, shows ZIPPO about this ruling and this case on its own website.  To my mind, that is a bigger scandal than the case itself (albeit not surprising, frankly).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is the exact same Carlos Slim who invested $250 million in the NY Times in either 2008 or 2009.  Funny thing, the great NY Times (which prints &#8220;all the news it deems fir to print&#8221;, shows ZIPPO about this ruling and this case on its own website.  To my mind, that is a bigger scandal than the case itself (albeit not surprising, frankly).</p>
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		<title>By: ChrisJCook</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/02/18/how-jp-morgan-treats-its-clients-scandalously-and-in-bad-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-12135</link>
		<dc:creator>ChrisJCook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 11:05:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=2621#comment-12135</guid>
		<description>Re JPM whatever became of the investigation into the Bear Stearns takeover?

I&#039;ve thought for a long time that the collapse and &#039;rescue&#039; of Bear Stearns and WaMu pay have had more to do with rescuing JPM.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re JPM whatever became of the investigation into the Bear Stearns takeover?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve thought for a long time that the collapse and &#8216;rescue&#8217; of Bear Stearns and WaMu pay have had more to do with rescuing JPM&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: dlr</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/02/18/how-jp-morgan-treats-its-clients-scandalously-and-in-bad-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-12126</link>
		<dc:creator>dlr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=2621#comment-12126</guid>
		<description>I guess Morgan Stanley and JPMorgan are different companies, so sorry, last post was off-topic.   This post too.

I noticed re-reading the alphaville article about the Morgan Stanley Pinnacle Notes scam that the h/t went to &#039;Felix Salmon&#039;.  How about a retrospective expose Felix?   There was a second set of notes from Morgan Stanley that went bust too, recently, with an even cuter set of kids of the prospectus, wasn&#039;t there?  I remember reading a blog about it, but I couldn&#039;t find the link.   

If you ask me what Morgan Stanley did was far worse than the stuff that Goldman Sach&#039;s has been being raked over the coals for, and yet for some incomprehensible reason they don&#039;t seem to have received any negative publicity about the matter at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess Morgan Stanley and JPMorgan are different companies, so sorry, last post was off-topic.   This post too.</p>
<p>I noticed re-reading the alphaville article about the Morgan Stanley Pinnacle Notes scam that the h/t went to &#8216;Felix Salmon&#8217;.  How about a retrospective expose Felix?   There was a second set of notes from Morgan Stanley that went bust too, recently, with an even cuter set of kids of the prospectus, wasn&#8217;t there?  I remember reading a blog about it, but I couldn&#8217;t find the link.   </p>
<p>If you ask me what Morgan Stanley did was far worse than the stuff that Goldman Sach&#8217;s has been being raked over the coals for, and yet for some incomprehensible reason they don&#8217;t seem to have received any negative publicity about the matter at all.</p>
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		<title>By: dlr</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/02/18/how-jp-morgan-treats-its-clients-scandalously-and-in-bad-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-12125</link>
		<dc:creator>dlr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 15:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=2621#comment-12125</guid>
		<description>Morgan Stanley was the same company that scandalously ripped off of bunch of &#039;mom and pop&#039; investors in Singapore back in 2007 with Pinnacle Notes.   Utterly contemptible, and yet, as far as I know they got away with it without even a slap on the hand.

It makes me mad every time I think about it.  They advertised it with a picture of a little kid hugging a teddy bear.  If you read the advertisement, the only risk is that one of  &quot;three gold-plated sovereigns, a massive telco or one of the world’s largest sovereign wealth funds&quot; would go bankrupt - ie, very low risk indeed.  But buried in the fine print is the information that you also lose all of your money if one of the lowest tranches of a CDO goes belly up that insures THESE clients:  

&quot;MBIA. RBS. Barclays. Freddie Mac. Fannie Mae. Kaupthing. AIG. Bear Stearns. Landsbanki. HBOS. Lehman Brothers. Wachovia. XL Capital. The Republic of Iceland.&quot;


The worst of the worst.  
    

Here&#039;s the links if anyone else wants to get outraged too:

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2008/11/17/18324/from-pinnacle-to-nadir/ 

http://josh.sg/2008/11/a_pig_in_a_poke.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Morgan Stanley was the same company that scandalously ripped off of bunch of &#8216;mom and pop&#8217; investors in Singapore back in 2007 with Pinnacle Notes.   Utterly contemptible, and yet, as far as I know they got away with it without even a slap on the hand.</p>
<p>It makes me mad every time I think about it.  They advertised it with a picture of a little kid hugging a teddy bear.  If you read the advertisement, the only risk is that one of  &#8220;three gold-plated sovereigns, a massive telco or one of the world’s largest sovereign wealth funds&#8221; would go bankrupt &#8211; ie, very low risk indeed.  But buried in the fine print is the information that you also lose all of your money if one of the lowest tranches of a CDO goes belly up that insures THESE clients:  </p>
<p>&#8220;MBIA. RBS. Barclays. Freddie Mac. Fannie Mae. Kaupthing. AIG. Bear Stearns. Landsbanki. HBOS. Lehman Brothers. Wachovia. XL Capital. The Republic of Iceland.&#8221;</p>
<p>The worst of the worst.  </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the links if anyone else wants to get outraged too:</p>
<p><a href='http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2008/11/17/18324/from-pinnacle-to-nadir/'>http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2008/11/ 17/18324/from-pinnacle-to-nadir/</a> </p>
<p><a href='http://josh.sg/2008/11/a_pig_in_a_poke.html'>http://josh.sg/2008/11/a_pig_in_a_poke.h tml</a></p>
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		<title>By: justinb</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/02/18/how-jp-morgan-treats-its-clients-scandalously-and-in-bad-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-12080</link>
		<dc:creator>justinb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=2621#comment-12080</guid>
		<description>Felix
Is this the same Carlos Slim that bought a % of the New York Times? how is that deal?
JB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Felix<br />
Is this the same Carlos Slim that bought a % of the New York Times? how is that deal?<br />
JB</p>
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		<title>By: Snyderico</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/02/18/how-jp-morgan-treats-its-clients-scandalously-and-in-bad-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-12078</link>
		<dc:creator>Snyderico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=2621#comment-12078</guid>
		<description>Agreed Oligarch.  That&#039;s why when you look at the covenants in a loan/bond issued by a corporate issuer, the terms are much different than for a private equity sponsor (at least this was the case when I last worked on these deals a few years ago, and I have no reason to believe it has changed much). The sponsor represents repeat business for the bank and the bank is therefore more willing to give away the store when it comes to the restrictiveness of the covenant package.  Even if there is no difference in the ability of the corporate issuer or the sponsor to repay the loan. No bank wants to risk losing all of KKR&#039;s business by negotiating hard on the covenants, especially when the bank will just end up dumping the crap on unwitting investors who just buy whatever is being sold in order to spread their risk from any one debt purchase.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed Oligarch.  That&#8217;s why when you look at the covenants in a loan/bond issued by a corporate issuer, the terms are much different than for a private equity sponsor (at least this was the case when I last worked on these deals a few years ago, and I have no reason to believe it has changed much). The sponsor represents repeat business for the bank and the bank is therefore more willing to give away the store when it comes to the restrictiveness of the covenant package.  Even if there is no difference in the ability of the corporate issuer or the sponsor to repay the loan. No bank wants to risk losing all of KKR&#8217;s business by negotiating hard on the covenants, especially when the bank will just end up dumping the crap on unwitting investors who just buy whatever is being sold in order to spread their risk from any one debt purchase.</p>
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		<title>By: gramps</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/02/18/how-jp-morgan-treats-its-clients-scandalously-and-in-bad-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-12076</link>
		<dc:creator>gramps</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=2621#comment-12076</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Felix ! Keep it up ! God bless ya. Also regarding the comment above by Benny Acosta, it turns out that the alleged determination that corporations are people with the same rights as natural persons, was bogus anyhow. The clerk of the supreme court at the time was apparently an ex-employee of the railroads and apparently deliberately misstated the decision of the court on the header notes in favor of the railroad, indicating that the court had decided that the railroad in question was a &quot;person&quot; when apparently in fact the court had not decided that at all. All one has to do is read the whole decision to see that. But over the years, based on a cursory review of the header summary of the decision, corporations have been deemed &quot;people&quot; (actually apparently only for-profit corporations at that -not non profits, i.e.unions)so there is case law. But the supreme court overthrew the older civilwar era case that had slaves as property which had become case law too, and held that slaves really had civil rights. So the court could overthrow this monstrosity too. But they&#039;ll have to be made to overturn it, or constitution will have to be amended to specifically exclude anything but a natural person from having any first amendment rights. Among other things for profit corporations can lie just like people, but of course, they&#039;re always above reproach..right ? I think that congress needs to get this constitutional amendment going ASAP. We the people would go for it in a heartbeat.The corporations have to be put in their place. This can be done, folks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Felix ! Keep it up ! God bless ya. Also regarding the comment above by Benny Acosta, it turns out that the alleged determination that corporations are people with the same rights as natural persons, was bogus anyhow. The clerk of the supreme court at the time was apparently an ex-employee of the railroads and apparently deliberately misstated the decision of the court on the header notes in favor of the railroad, indicating that the court had decided that the railroad in question was a &#8220;person&#8221; when apparently in fact the court had not decided that at all. All one has to do is read the whole decision to see that. But over the years, based on a cursory review of the header summary of the decision, corporations have been deemed &#8220;people&#8221; (actually apparently only for-profit corporations at that -not non profits, i.e.unions)so there is case law. But the supreme court overthrew the older civilwar era case that had slaves as property which had become case law too, and held that slaves really had civil rights. So the court could overthrow this monstrosity too. But they&#8217;ll have to be made to overturn it, or constitution will have to be amended to specifically exclude anything but a natural person from having any first amendment rights. Among other things for profit corporations can lie just like people, but of course, they&#8217;re always above reproach..right ? I think that congress needs to get this constitutional amendment going ASAP. We the people would go for it in a heartbeat.The corporations have to be put in their place. This can be done, folks.</p>
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		<title>By: Sad_Oligarch</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/02/18/how-jp-morgan-treats-its-clients-scandalously-and-in-bad-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-12074</link>
		<dc:creator>Sad_Oligarch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=2621#comment-12074</guid>
		<description>Absolutely right about trading up clients.  This is the whole reason we have seen such bad negotiating on the part of regulators and their advisors.

Why would Dan Jester and Ken Wilson sell out the US taxpayer to help Goldman?  Besides being unpatriotic, why mar your reputations like that?  Well, if most of your future earnings will rely on your Goldman relationships, it is hard to rationalize taking a hard line against them.

This kind of conduct is endemic to Wall St.  It is why bank boards get horrible advice from pay consultants and executive comp lawyers.  Giving away the keys to the candy store is their job so they get picked for the next assignment.  Fiduciary duty to shareholders?  Duty of loyalty?  Hah!  Quaint little concepts better left to law school exams.  The show must go on!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely right about trading up clients.  This is the whole reason we have seen such bad negotiating on the part of regulators and their advisors.</p>
<p>Why would Dan Jester and Ken Wilson sell out the US taxpayer to help Goldman?  Besides being unpatriotic, why mar your reputations like that?  Well, if most of your future earnings will rely on your Goldman relationships, it is hard to rationalize taking a hard line against them.</p>
<p>This kind of conduct is endemic to Wall St.  It is why bank boards get horrible advice from pay consultants and executive comp lawyers.  Giving away the keys to the candy store is their job so they get picked for the next assignment.  Fiduciary duty to shareholders?  Duty of loyalty?  Hah!  Quaint little concepts better left to law school exams.  The show must go on!</p>
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		<title>By: Benny_Acosta</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/02/18/how-jp-morgan-treats-its-clients-scandalously-and-in-bad-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-12073</link>
		<dc:creator>Benny_Acosta</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 16:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=2621#comment-12073</guid>
		<description>Something else to consider. JP Morgan as a company is considered a citizen of the United States. Because of this they can lobby congress. Considering how this &quot;person&quot; behaves when left to their own devices, is it wise to allow JP and entities of similar ilk the right to have a voice in the hall of congress?

Corporations must not be allowed to continue as citizens. And this type of behavior is exactly why. All they do is cover it up at little better when they do it state side. Even now corporate interests sell off the rights and protections of the citizenry. This is something that needs serious consideration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something else to consider. JP Morgan as a company is considered a citizen of the United States. Because of this they can lobby congress. Considering how this &#8220;person&#8221; behaves when left to their own devices, is it wise to allow JP and entities of similar ilk the right to have a voice in the hall of congress?</p>
<p>Corporations must not be allowed to continue as citizens. And this type of behavior is exactly why. All they do is cover it up at little better when they do it state side. Even now corporate interests sell off the rights and protections of the citizenry. This is something that needs serious consideration.</p>
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		<title>By: Snyderico</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/02/18/how-jp-morgan-treats-its-clients-scandalously-and-in-bad-faith/comment-page-1/#comment-12071</link>
		<dc:creator>Snyderico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=2621#comment-12071</guid>
		<description>1. JPM was not desperate to alienate Televisa, nor were they scared of Slim.  They were hoping to &quot;trade up&quot; from their relationship with Televisa to a new relationship with Slim, who clearly throws off more banking business than Televisa.

2. Doesn&#039;t Slim already have access to many of Cablevision&#039;s secrets through his equity ownership? He may not get as much info as he would get through these ridiculous covenants, but I would think Televisa would have a hard time arguing that some things were trade secrets if Slim already had access to that info as an equityholder (albeit in the subsidiary, but the subsidiary that actually competes with Slim&#039;s company).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. JPM was not desperate to alienate Televisa, nor were they scared of Slim.  They were hoping to &#8220;trade up&#8221; from their relationship with Televisa to a new relationship with Slim, who clearly throws off more banking business than Televisa.</p>
<p>2. Doesn&#8217;t Slim already have access to many of Cablevision&#8217;s secrets through his equity ownership? He may not get as much info as he would get through these ridiculous covenants, but I would think Televisa would have a hard time arguing that some things were trade secrets if Slim already had access to that info as an equityholder (albeit in the subsidiary, but the subsidiary that actually competes with Slim&#8217;s company).</p>
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