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	<title>Comments on: How blogging is like being bad at math</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/07/02/how-blogging-is-like-being-bad-at-math/</link>
	<description>A slice of lime in the soda</description>
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		<title>By: Len.Williams</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/07/02/how-blogging-is-like-being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-16514</link>
		<dc:creator>Len.Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 14:53:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4557#comment-16514</guid>
		<description>I totally agree that most of the time we don’t really get the meaning of what we read. Probably because there’s just so much information everywhere and we’d like to grab most of it, if possible. More than that, we move from a thing to another because they’re so eye-catching and we sometimes forget why we actually clicked on. But you’re also right that this kind of superficial skipping around articles and posts on various &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.vcgate.com/venture-capital-angel-investors-private-equity-blog/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blogs&lt;/a&gt; helps us make complex connections between very different things, so who knows what innovative idea or discovery could come up to our filled up brains just before falling asleep…</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I totally agree that most of the time we don’t really get the meaning of what we read. Probably because there’s just so much information everywhere and we’d like to grab most of it, if possible. More than that, we move from a thing to another because they’re so eye-catching and we sometimes forget why we actually clicked on. But you’re also right that this kind of superficial skipping around articles and posts on various blogs helps us make complex connections between very different things, so who knows what innovative idea or discovery could come up to our filled up brains just before falling asleep…</p>
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		<title>By: GingerYellow</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/07/02/how-blogging-is-like-being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-16401</link>
		<dc:creator>GingerYellow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 09:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4557#comment-16401</guid>
		<description>I had pretty much the opposite experience with maths A-level. Up until the year before A-levels I was in the top stream for maths, which was strongly accelerated. We were doing freshman undergrad level stuff by the time I left. I certainly wasn&#039;t near the top of the class, but I wasn&#039;t struggling either. But when it came to A-levels, I realised I wanted to go in a general humanities direction, so I took maths instead of double maths (my only sciencey subject). And I found, dropping down into the stream for people who weren&#039;t doing Further Maths, that I really struggled to remaster material I&#039;d learned and moved on from a year or more before. Most of the advanced topics we&#039;d covered were of no relevance at all (at least for exam purposes) to the basic maths A-level and because we hadn&#039;t spent much time reinforcing the knowledge required before switching to some other topic, it didn&#039;t stick as well as it should have. 

I still managed to get an A, but it was a lot more of a close thing than it should have been.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had pretty much the opposite experience with maths A-level. Up until the year before A-levels I was in the top stream for maths, which was strongly accelerated. We were doing freshman undergrad level stuff by the time I left. I certainly wasn&#8217;t near the top of the class, but I wasn&#8217;t struggling either. But when it came to A-levels, I realised I wanted to go in a general humanities direction, so I took maths instead of double maths (my only sciencey subject). And I found, dropping down into the stream for people who weren&#8217;t doing Further Maths, that I really struggled to remaster material I&#8217;d learned and moved on from a year or more before. Most of the advanced topics we&#8217;d covered were of no relevance at all (at least for exam purposes) to the basic maths A-level and because we hadn&#8217;t spent much time reinforcing the knowledge required before switching to some other topic, it didn&#8217;t stick as well as it should have. </p>
<p>I still managed to get an A, but it was a lot more of a close thing than it should have been.</p>
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		<title>By: Derrida</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/07/02/how-blogging-is-like-being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-16400</link>
		<dc:creator>Derrida</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 05:59:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4557#comment-16400</guid>
		<description>Substitute &quot;barber/surgeon&quot; for &quot;economist&quot; and &quot;medicine&quot; for &quot;economics&quot;, and Dr. Athreya&#039;s essay makes perfect sense. He is writing from the perspective of someone who has studied bloodletting for years and feels no one from outside the discipline has any useful perspective on medicine, as they are not good bloodletters. We can evaluate the prescriptions we receive from oncologists against the clinical outcomes; Lucas&#039; models are inherently untestable. Instead &quot;modern&quot; macroeconomics only has internal consistency and elegance, like the barber-surgeons&#039; work. Economics at all levels has no practical benchmarks for the success of its work, except for perhaps Esther DuFlo. Of course people are going to trample on a discipline like that.
 
The times in which change occurs most rapidly are when an institution feels threatened from the outside.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Substitute &#8220;barber/surgeon&#8221; for &#8220;economist&#8221; and &#8220;medicine&#8221; for &#8220;economics&#8221;, and Dr. Athreya&#8217;s essay makes perfect sense. He is writing from the perspective of someone who has studied bloodletting for years and feels no one from outside the discipline has any useful perspective on medicine, as they are not good bloodletters. We can evaluate the prescriptions we receive from oncologists against the clinical outcomes; Lucas&#8217; models are inherently untestable. Instead &#8220;modern&#8221; macroeconomics only has internal consistency and elegance, like the barber-surgeons&#8217; work. Economics at all levels has no practical benchmarks for the success of its work, except for perhaps Esther DuFlo. Of course people are going to trample on a discipline like that.</p>
<p>The times in which change occurs most rapidly are when an institution feels threatened from the outside.</p>
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		<title>By: williamperkins</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/07/02/how-blogging-is-like-being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-16395</link>
		<dc:creator>williamperkins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 17:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4557#comment-16395</guid>
		<description>but maybe you&#039;re saying blogging is like being good at math?  I don&#039;t think anyone, even the best math people, really understands the hard math concepts the first time they see them.  they just immerse themselves and eventually it sinks in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>but maybe you&#8217;re saying blogging is like being good at math?  I don&#8217;t think anyone, even the best math people, really understands the hard math concepts the first time they see them.  they just immerse themselves and eventually it sinks in.</p>
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		<title>By: DanHess</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/07/02/how-blogging-is-like-being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-16392</link>
		<dc:creator>DanHess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 01:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4557#comment-16392</guid>
		<description>It seems like the total failure of most pros and particularly those in government to see the macro tsunami that washed over us catapulted financial blogging to the big time.

Folks hate being knock upside the head from something they don&#039;t see coming and you can bet they are looking for some visibility now.  How much macro visibility are folks like Athreya providing us these days?

At least much of the blogosphere has been able to work out a pretty good story for what the heck just happened.  And better still, it is lit up with possibilities for what might happen next.  To listen to those whose living is at the intersection of economics and government, you would think that a gigantic 10,000 year financial asteriod came in from outer space and soon this will all be just a bad memory.

Those among us who pay attention to history notice that foul economic weather is actually pretty common and  we aren&#039;t interested in being stuck in a blizzard in our bermuda shorts like last time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems like the total failure of most pros and particularly those in government to see the macro tsunami that washed over us catapulted financial blogging to the big time.</p>
<p>Folks hate being knock upside the head from something they don&#8217;t see coming and you can bet they are looking for some visibility now.  How much macro visibility are folks like Athreya providing us these days?</p>
<p>At least much of the blogosphere has been able to work out a pretty good story for what the heck just happened.  And better still, it is lit up with possibilities for what might happen next.  To listen to those whose living is at the intersection of economics and government, you would think that a gigantic 10,000 year financial asteriod came in from outer space and soon this will all be just a bad memory.</p>
<p>Those among us who pay attention to history notice that foul economic weather is actually pretty common and  we aren&#8217;t interested in being stuck in a blizzard in our bermuda shorts like last time.</p>
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		<title>By: xyz70</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/07/02/how-blogging-is-like-being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-16391</link>
		<dc:creator>xyz70</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 23:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4557#comment-16391</guid>
		<description>Yet another blog post about blogging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yet another blog post about blogging.</p>
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		<title>By: HBC</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/07/02/how-blogging-is-like-being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-16389</link>
		<dc:creator>HBC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 20:18:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4557#comment-16389</guid>
		<description>This article attests to the power of positive drinking, of which Kartik Athreya might try doing a bit more before next setting pixel to screen.  

The consequences of enshrouding economics in arcane incomprehensibility are all around us, yet more agonizing than any World Cup defeat. In the aftermath of drastic failure, whether systemic or criminally contrived, trite mythological substitutes for history from which no human being is likely to learn, nor care to, are pseudo-academic, mathematically futile and no fun at the pub, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article attests to the power of positive drinking, of which Kartik Athreya might try doing a bit more before next setting pixel to screen.  </p>
<p>The consequences of enshrouding economics in arcane incomprehensibility are all around us, yet more agonizing than any World Cup defeat. In the aftermath of drastic failure, whether systemic or criminally contrived, trite mythological substitutes for history from which no human being is likely to learn, nor care to, are pseudo-academic, mathematically futile and no fun at the pub, either.</p>
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		<title>By: prospector</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/07/02/how-blogging-is-like-being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-16388</link>
		<dc:creator>prospector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 18:56:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4557#comment-16388</guid>
		<description>As a layman reader of this site and other econoblogs for quite some time, I have to say I agree with most of the premises of Athreya&#039;s essay. Economics is hard, I don&#039;t fully understand it and the entire mess likely would be better left to highly trained professionals. 

But as someone who has had to make some hard decisions, I have come to realize that while I can allow highly trained professionals to give me advice or even make my decisions for me, the consequences of those actions will always remain with me alone.

While macroeconomics may be a technocrat&#039;s dream (the complexity of formualae!), it is ultimately the layman&#039;s problem. I think the econobloggers understand that point much better than the academics do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a layman reader of this site and other econoblogs for quite some time, I have to say I agree with most of the premises of Athreya&#8217;s essay. Economics is hard, I don&#8217;t fully understand it and the entire mess likely would be better left to highly trained professionals. </p>
<p>But as someone who has had to make some hard decisions, I have come to realize that while I can allow highly trained professionals to give me advice or even make my decisions for me, the consequences of those actions will always remain with me alone.</p>
<p>While macroeconomics may be a technocrat&#8217;s dream (the complexity of formualae!), it is ultimately the layman&#8217;s problem. I think the econobloggers understand that point much better than the academics do.</p>
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		<title>By: Curmudgeon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/07/02/how-blogging-is-like-being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-16387</link>
		<dc:creator>Curmudgeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 18:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4557#comment-16387</guid>
		<description>Having pursued in MS in math after a couple of degrees in the social sciences (where you can most definitely fake it), I can appreciate your analogy.

However, unless I&#039;m missing something, all you seem to be saying is that some people are good at detail, while others are good at the big picture.  Hardly a revelation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having pursued in MS in math after a couple of degrees in the social sciences (where you can most definitely fake it), I can appreciate your analogy.</p>
<p>However, unless I&#8217;m missing something, all you seem to be saying is that some people are good at detail, while others are good at the big picture.  Hardly a revelation.</p>
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		<title>By: martin66</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/07/02/how-blogging-is-like-being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-16385</link>
		<dc:creator>martin66</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 16:38:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4557#comment-16385</guid>
		<description>Very nice. Perhaps simply summed up by the (revised) title of Tyler Cowen&#039;s book &quot;Infovore.&quot;  Admit to not having read it, and am not even sure what it is about.  But the title speaks to this issue quite succinctly I would suggest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very nice. Perhaps simply summed up by the (revised) title of Tyler Cowen&#8217;s book &#8220;Infovore.&#8221;  Admit to not having read it, and am not even sure what it is about.  But the title speaks to this issue quite succinctly I would suggest.</p>
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		<title>By: randymiller</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/07/02/how-blogging-is-like-being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-16384</link>
		<dc:creator>randymiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 15:17:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4557#comment-16384</guid>
		<description>Many economists still want to look at their field as being a hard science like physics, were models can be created based on hard numbers.   Since economics deals with the behavior of sometimes irrational human beings, there is no consistency.   Macroeconomics deals with large masses of human beings, so one might think behavior would average out, when in fact the large masses amplify the distortions because of herd mentality.

Perhaps Econ 101 should spend some time studying stock cow herds, asking why the herd gathers in a corner when a storm is coming, or why they will move single file behind a leader for some reason.  With humans, the key is creating panic and fear. You don&#039;t need to actually have a shortage of fuel at the pumps to create gas lines, you just have to create a perception of shortage. So when Goldman and Morgan Stanley created the perception of an oil shortage in 2008, prices skyrocketed, even though there had been no genuine disruption to the market.

So when Dr Ahtreya and his economist cohorts admit they are closer to the humanities than to hard science, I might start trusting them.  Until that time, I will look at their writings with the same skepticism I use on bloggers. Not saying I discount the writings of either group, but I do look for supporting facts, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many economists still want to look at their field as being a hard science like physics, were models can be created based on hard numbers.   Since economics deals with the behavior of sometimes irrational human beings, there is no consistency.   Macroeconomics deals with large masses of human beings, so one might think behavior would average out, when in fact the large masses amplify the distortions because of herd mentality.</p>
<p>Perhaps Econ 101 should spend some time studying stock cow herds, asking why the herd gathers in a corner when a storm is coming, or why they will move single file behind a leader for some reason.  With humans, the key is creating panic and fear. You don&#8217;t need to actually have a shortage of fuel at the pumps to create gas lines, you just have to create a perception of shortage. So when Goldman and Morgan Stanley created the perception of an oil shortage in 2008, prices skyrocketed, even though there had been no genuine disruption to the market.</p>
<p>So when Dr Ahtreya and his economist cohorts admit they are closer to the humanities than to hard science, I might start trusting them.  Until that time, I will look at their writings with the same skepticism I use on bloggers. Not saying I discount the writings of either group, but I do look for supporting facts, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: DonthelibertDem</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/07/02/how-blogging-is-like-being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-16379</link>
		<dc:creator>DonthelibertDem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 07:25:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4557#comment-16379</guid>
		<description>I look like a Hedgehog, but seem to be a Fox. Who knew? That explains why I&#039;m never allowed in the Hen House as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I look like a Hedgehog, but seem to be a Fox. Who knew? That explains why I&#8217;m never allowed in the Hen House as well.</p>
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		<title>By: carpingdemon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/07/02/how-blogging-is-like-being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-16376</link>
		<dc:creator>carpingdemon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 06:55:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4557#comment-16376</guid>
		<description>I think you took Ms. Horn&#039;s little essay a lot further than she was going to. Why Horn rather than Berlin?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you took Ms. Horn&#8217;s little essay a lot further than she was going to. Why Horn rather than Berlin?</p>
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		<title>By: Gaw</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/07/02/how-blogging-is-like-being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-16375</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 06:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4557#comment-16375</guid>
		<description>Rather hilarious that the Doctor (of &#039;philosphy&#039;, no doubt) sees economics sharing a place amongst the sciences with oncology, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rather hilarious that the Doctor (of &#8216;philosphy&#8217;, no doubt) sees economics sharing a place amongst the sciences with oncology, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: ORD</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/07/02/how-blogging-is-like-being-bad-at-math/comment-page-1/#comment-16374</link>
		<dc:creator>ORD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jul 2010 04:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4557#comment-16374</guid>
		<description>Dr. Athreya begins inauspiciously by lumping together distinguished economics professors Krugman and Delong as &quot;auto-didact[s] or non-didact[s],&quot; in the same category with non-economic journalists John Stossel and Matt Yglesias. What follows is a confused treatise on the inaccessibility of expert knowledge that flounders into deep questions of education and communication theory, where Athreya could charitably be described as a &quot;non-didact,&quot; were that a real term. And how is a blog entry different from an op-ed piece? Krugman&#039;s most recent column, featuring the &quot;the invisible bond vigilante and the confidence fairy,&quot; is full of gross oversimplifications, but surely the average reader was left with more knowledge, at least about Krugman&#039;s views. If Athreya was correct that econoblogs are worse than useless, then we may as well abandon opinion journalism, along with popular science journalism.

Dr. Athreya says &quot;Most of us readily accept the proposition that [o]ncology requires training, and rarely give time over to non-medical-professionals’ musings. Do we expect advances in cell-biology to be immediately accessible to anyone with even a college degree?&quot; Well, yes, we do. Of course there are blogs that provide non-experts with access to scientific knowledge and recent research about in less technical terms, even in oncology. Consider 
scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org,
which recently discussed the roles of telomeres, tumor necrosis factor, and statin drugs in causing or fighting various forms of cancer. There are many, many other blogs, such as Realclimate and Pharyngula (another excellent Science blog), that bridge the gap between science and opinion in a manner that traditional journalism cannot. This kind of blogging fills in a yawning gap in our  information space, and has already grown to be surprisingly important and influential in Western society and polity. In short, I think Dr. Athreya is laboring under serious misapprehensions about the role blogs can play, and I think in a few decades his essay will read like an angry polemic by a Medieval Scholastic railing against vulgar translations of the Bible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Athreya begins inauspiciously by lumping together distinguished economics professors Krugman and Delong as &#8220;auto-didact[s] or non-didact[s],&#8221; in the same category with non-economic journalists John Stossel and Matt Yglesias. What follows is a confused treatise on the inaccessibility of expert knowledge that flounders into deep questions of education and communication theory, where Athreya could charitably be described as a &#8220;non-didact,&#8221; were that a real term. And how is a blog entry different from an op-ed piece? Krugman&#8217;s most recent column, featuring the &#8220;the invisible bond vigilante and the confidence fairy,&#8221; is full of gross oversimplifications, but surely the average reader was left with more knowledge, at least about Krugman&#8217;s views. If Athreya was correct that econoblogs are worse than useless, then we may as well abandon opinion journalism, along with popular science journalism.</p>
<p>Dr. Athreya says &#8220;Most of us readily accept the proposition that [o]ncology requires training, and rarely give time over to non-medical-professionals’ musings. Do we expect advances in cell-biology to be immediately accessible to anyone with even a college degree?&#8221; Well, yes, we do. Of course there are blogs that provide non-experts with access to scientific knowledge and recent research about in less technical terms, even in oncology. Consider<br />
scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org,<br />
which recently discussed the roles of telomeres, tumor necrosis factor, and statin drugs in causing or fighting various forms of cancer. There are many, many other blogs, such as Realclimate and Pharyngula (another excellent Science blog), that bridge the gap between science and opinion in a manner that traditional journalism cannot. This kind of blogging fills in a yawning gap in our  information space, and has already grown to be surprisingly important and influential in Western society and polity. In short, I think Dr. Athreya is laboring under serious misapprehensions about the role blogs can play, and I think in a few decades his essay will read like an angry polemic by a Medieval Scholastic railing against vulgar translations of the Bible.</p>
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