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	<title>Comments on: Google&#8217;s email nastiness</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/18/googles-email-nastiness/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/18/googles-email-nastiness/</link>
	<description>A slice of lime in the soda</description>
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		<title>By: mrdbsql</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/18/googles-email-nastiness/comment-page-1/#comment-18976</link>
		<dc:creator>mrdbsql</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Oct 2010 05:15:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4998#comment-18976</guid>
		<description>A friend of ours had a similar problem. She hit the limit, and fortunately was using the Gmail web interface so she saw the message -- but then couldn&#039;t delete mails fast enough to free up space. Every day was another chunk of time finding messages to delete -- only to be hit with another big email that zeroed it out again. She had no idea about imap and had to get help.

As a result of this, we built www.findbigmail.com as a free service to identify large emails. It adds labels for big, very big and ultra big messages so you know what to delete first. Hopefully this can help some other people too. (And if it does, a donation will help to keep it running!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A friend of ours had a similar problem. She hit the limit, and fortunately was using the Gmail web interface so she saw the message &#8212; but then couldn&#8217;t delete mails fast enough to free up space. Every day was another chunk of time finding messages to delete &#8212; only to be hit with another big email that zeroed it out again. She had no idea about imap and had to get help.</p>
<p>As a result of this, we built <a href='http://www.findbigmail.com'>http://www.findbigmail.com</a> as a free service to identify large emails. It adds labels for big, very big and ultra big messages so you know what to delete first. Hopefully this can help some other people too. (And if it does, a donation will help to keep it running!).</p>
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		<title>By: name99</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/18/googles-email-nastiness/comment-page-1/#comment-17550</link>
		<dc:creator>name99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Aug 2010 02:45:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4998#comment-17550</guid>
		<description>slashb above is right. The people you should complain to are Apple. 
If, in Mail.app, you right-click/control-click on one of the accounts in your inbox, you will get a list of commands for the account, the last of which is &quot;get Account Info&quot; which will, in turn, display your email quota and how much you are using.

I&#039;d personally regard it as a major bug on Apple&#039;s part if they don&#039;t notify you in some way as you get close to this limit (though I am nowhere close to my limit, so I can&#039;t speak from experience). Certainly what I&#039;d hope they would do is a variety of things, from perhaps turning the mailbox icon red to throwing up dialogs once one gets to, say, 95% usage, and that they would do this across both OSX and iOS.

What a normal person should do at this point to deal with the issue is to submit a bug to bugreport.apple.com. People seem to feel this is pointless, but I report tons of bugs, and I get plenty of feedback from Apple asking me for details. The main thing to remember is that, usually, the bug is not going to be fixed and a new version released tomorrow. Best case it will be picked up in the next dot release, which happen every three months or so; and quite likely it will not be picked up until the next major release, which for 10.7 will be, your guess is as good as mine, September 2011?

Felix, of course, has a bully pulpit and there may be some value in writing a mea culpa post in which you both apologize to google (though perhaps the &quot;your quota is low&quot; email idea is a good one), and call Apple out for not warning the user. On the other hand can you even be sure that any of the relevant Apple engineers even read Felix? Apple is not a monolithic borg, and just because some guy in Time Machine team reads Felix and learns about this bug doesn&#039;t mean that guy even knows anyone on the Mail.app team to tell about what he saw. Certainly submitting to bugreport.apple.com is the most reliable way to get the problem resolved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>slashb above is right. The people you should complain to are Apple.<br />
If, in Mail.app, you right-click/control-click on one of the accounts in your inbox, you will get a list of commands for the account, the last of which is &#8220;get Account Info&#8221; which will, in turn, display your email quota and how much you are using.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d personally regard it as a major bug on Apple&#8217;s part if they don&#8217;t notify you in some way as you get close to this limit (though I am nowhere close to my limit, so I can&#8217;t speak from experience). Certainly what I&#8217;d hope they would do is a variety of things, from perhaps turning the mailbox icon red to throwing up dialogs once one gets to, say, 95% usage, and that they would do this across both OSX and iOS.</p>
<p>What a normal person should do at this point to deal with the issue is to submit a bug to bugreport.apple.com. People seem to feel this is pointless, but I report tons of bugs, and I get plenty of feedback from Apple asking me for details. The main thing to remember is that, usually, the bug is not going to be fixed and a new version released tomorrow. Best case it will be picked up in the next dot release, which happen every three months or so; and quite likely it will not be picked up until the next major release, which for 10.7 will be, your guess is as good as mine, September 2011?</p>
<p>Felix, of course, has a bully pulpit and there may be some value in writing a mea culpa post in which you both apologize to google (though perhaps the &#8220;your quota is low&#8221; email idea is a good one), and call Apple out for not warning the user. On the other hand can you even be sure that any of the relevant Apple engineers even read Felix? Apple is not a monolithic borg, and just because some guy in Time Machine team reads Felix and learns about this bug doesn&#8217;t mean that guy even knows anyone on the Mail.app team to tell about what he saw. Certainly submitting to bugreport.apple.com is the most reliable way to get the problem resolved.</p>
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		<title>By: slashb</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/18/googles-email-nastiness/comment-page-1/#comment-17549</link>
		<dc:creator>slashb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Aug 2010 01:24:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4998#comment-17549</guid>
		<description>Actually, one of the features of IMAP is that it will tell you how much quota you are using. Gmail appears to support this. The problem then is your own mail client, which should be warning you if you are near quota.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, one of the features of IMAP is that it will tell you how much quota you are using. Gmail appears to support this. The problem then is your own mail client, which should be warning you if you are near quota.</p>
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		<title>By: nelson.sproul</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/18/googles-email-nastiness/comment-page-1/#comment-17544</link>
		<dc:creator>nelson.sproul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Aug 2010 18:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4998#comment-17544</guid>
		<description>Felix, I think you&#039;re out of line to be too cranky about them not handling well the case where you access the mail via POP (a capability no other free e-mail provider even offers, I believe), thus skipping the ads, and also save large quantities of stuff.

Also, your implication that they laid a trap for you in order to make money is I think misguided.  The number of users who reach the limit is very small -- the policy is a defense against excessive use, not a bank-style surprise fee.

Re: gmail as beta s/w: they&#039;ve been out of Beta for a year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Felix, I think you&#8217;re out of line to be too cranky about them not handling well the case where you access the mail via POP (a capability no other free e-mail provider even offers, I believe), thus skipping the ads, and also save large quantities of stuff.</p>
<p>Also, your implication that they laid a trap for you in order to make money is I think misguided.  The number of users who reach the limit is very small &#8212; the policy is a defense against excessive use, not a bank-style surprise fee.</p>
<p>Re: gmail as beta s/w: they&#8217;ve been out of Beta for a year.</p>
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		<title>By: owe.jessen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/18/googles-email-nastiness/comment-page-1/#comment-17506</link>
		<dc:creator>owe.jessen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2010 11:06:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4998#comment-17506</guid>
		<description>gmail free - Satisfaction guaranteed, or your money back. Your problem is not unique, though: web.de offers 10 mbyte of free space, and a number of friends continue to use this service provider.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gmail free &#8211; Satisfaction guaranteed, or your money back. Your problem is not unique, though: web.de offers 10 mbyte of free space, and a number of friends continue to use this service provider.</p>
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		<title>By: justins</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/18/googles-email-nastiness/comment-page-1/#comment-17494</link>
		<dc:creator>justins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Aug 2010 00:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4998#comment-17494</guid>
		<description>From what I can make out, Google&#039;s support organization is designed with the ethos outlined by a few of the posters above: the product is permitted to be horrible in certain corner cases and users who experience those horrors do not need to be addressed in a particularly timely or effective manner since, well, they&#039;re a minority. It&#039;s not a approach limited to their free services, either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From what I can make out, Google&#8217;s support organization is designed with the ethos outlined by a few of the posters above: the product is permitted to be horrible in certain corner cases and users who experience those horrors do not need to be addressed in a particularly timely or effective manner since, well, they&#8217;re a minority. It&#8217;s not a approach limited to their free services, either.</p>
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		<title>By: josefhiggins</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/18/googles-email-nastiness/comment-page-1/#comment-17469</link>
		<dc:creator>josefhiggins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 17:22:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4998#comment-17469</guid>
		<description>Wow, to let your inbox fill upward to 7Gigs. I wouldn&#039;t let my inbox fill past 500mb. Why are you using free Gmail like an enterprise solution? Last I check, all of Google&#039;s email offerings (Gmail, Google Apps Gmail) was still in beta. One of the problems I see with using and holding old emails/attchments with free Gmail is I don&#039;t know what time/date Google email system will scrub old emails. Is it one year, upwards to 2 years, or 180 days, etc? As users we don&#039;t know so you&#039;re taking a risk holding old important emails on the free accounts. 

I use Google Apps and I scrub my own inbox every quarter. The highest my inbox has ever been was 10mb (all text email, no attachments. I hate attachments). Every quarter I delete old, non-important email. Move important email off Google servers to my own file server in an archive folder. I rarely go back and view archived important emails, just keep them as references. Theres nothing like starting a new quarter with a tidy, empty inbox.

The paid enterprise version of Google Apps I would not have a problem leaving ALL my emails on the servers. Google has stated, Enterprise customers get more space (25g) so users never have to delete any emails. No emails will be deleted if you use Google Enterprise Apps. I like that idea and it&#039;s the only reason I would upgrade to Enterprise. Like you I understand the importance of archiving my messages in one locations but I just can&#039;t trust doing that using free Gmail/Apps.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, to let your inbox fill upward to 7Gigs. I wouldn&#8217;t let my inbox fill past 500mb. Why are you using free Gmail like an enterprise solution? Last I check, all of Google&#8217;s email offerings (Gmail, Google Apps Gmail) was still in beta. One of the problems I see with using and holding old emails/attchments with free Gmail is I don&#8217;t know what time/date Google email system will scrub old emails. Is it one year, upwards to 2 years, or 180 days, etc? As users we don&#8217;t know so you&#8217;re taking a risk holding old important emails on the free accounts. </p>
<p>I use Google Apps and I scrub my own inbox every quarter. The highest my inbox has ever been was 10mb (all text email, no attachments. I hate attachments). Every quarter I delete old, non-important email. Move important email off Google servers to my own file server in an archive folder. I rarely go back and view archived important emails, just keep them as references. Theres nothing like starting a new quarter with a tidy, empty inbox.</p>
<p>The paid enterprise version of Google Apps I would not have a problem leaving ALL my emails on the servers. Google has stated, Enterprise customers get more space (25g) so users never have to delete any emails. No emails will be deleted if you use Google Enterprise Apps. I like that idea and it&#8217;s the only reason I would upgrade to Enterprise. Like you I understand the importance of archiving my messages in one locations but I just can&#8217;t trust doing that using free Gmail/Apps.</p>
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		<title>By: andrewanon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/18/googles-email-nastiness/comment-page-1/#comment-17468</link>
		<dc:creator>andrewanon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 16:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4998#comment-17468</guid>
		<description>Are you out of your mind?

If you don&#039;t want to run out of space, download and archive your e-mail. It&#039;s a free service - there are many good reasons to criticize Google, but your first world problem in this case is certainly not one of them. 

Also, when important e-mails are returned, most of us resend them or find other ways of contacting the individual in question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are you out of your mind?</p>
<p>If you don&#8217;t want to run out of space, download and archive your e-mail. It&#8217;s a free service &#8211; there are many good reasons to criticize Google, but your first world problem in this case is certainly not one of them. </p>
<p>Also, when important e-mails are returned, most of us resend them or find other ways of contacting the individual in question.</p>
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		<title>By: alexrs</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/18/googles-email-nastiness/comment-page-1/#comment-17457</link>
		<dc:creator>alexrs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 14:04:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4998#comment-17457</guid>
		<description>The issue is that Gmail (at least the free version) is not an Enterprise product. Google products are, for the most part, designed by Google engineers based on what they themselves want to use. Everyone at Google uses the web interface, so they sometimes forget that not everyone does. The failure to send you a warning email isn&#039;t the result of a deliberate decision, nor is it Google being passive aggressive. Google measures release cycles in days or weeks, not months. If they don&#039;t have this feature, it&#039;s simply that they haven&#039;t gotten around to implementing it. Maybe they&#039;ll give it to an intern next summer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The issue is that Gmail (at least the free version) is not an Enterprise product. Google products are, for the most part, designed by Google engineers based on what they themselves want to use. Everyone at Google uses the web interface, so they sometimes forget that not everyone does. The failure to send you a warning email isn&#8217;t the result of a deliberate decision, nor is it Google being passive aggressive. Google measures release cycles in days or weeks, not months. If they don&#8217;t have this feature, it&#8217;s simply that they haven&#8217;t gotten around to implementing it. Maybe they&#8217;ll give it to an intern next summer.</p>
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		<title>By: GingerYellow</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/18/googles-email-nastiness/comment-page-1/#comment-17455</link>
		<dc:creator>GingerYellow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 13:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4998#comment-17455</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d rather have email on both an internet server and my hard drive than just on my hard drive. Frankly I trust Google&#039;s ability to protect its servers more than I trust my ability not to drop my laptop. Plus, leaving it on the server means it&#039;s accessible from multiple devices - I check email on my phone, my work computer, my home desktop and my laptop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d rather have email on both an internet server and my hard drive than just on my hard drive. Frankly I trust Google&#8217;s ability to protect its servers more than I trust my ability not to drop my laptop. Plus, leaving it on the server means it&#8217;s accessible from multiple devices &#8211; I check email on my phone, my work computer, my home desktop and my laptop.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim_P</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/18/googles-email-nastiness/comment-page-1/#comment-17443</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim_P</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 01:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4998#comment-17443</guid>
		<description>I thought the general idea about Email is to download it into your own machine and then delete it from the server !!!
---
Leaving old messages on an internet email server is, shall I say, not wise.
---
For all I know, the email sever may decide to delete ALL messages on a user account over a certain age.   It has been known to happen.
---
If I EVER had 7.5GB of email on an internet email server, it would be due to my being dead...

    Jim</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought the general idea about Email is to download it into your own machine and then delete it from the server !!!<br />
&#8212;<br />
Leaving old messages on an internet email server is, shall I say, not wise.<br />
&#8212;<br />
For all I know, the email sever may decide to delete ALL messages on a user account over a certain age.   It has been known to happen.<br />
&#8212;<br />
If I EVER had 7.5GB of email on an internet email server, it would be due to my being dead&#8230;</p>
<p>    Jim</p>
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		<title>By: Thalya</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/18/googles-email-nastiness/comment-page-1/#comment-17430</link>
		<dc:creator>Thalya</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 23:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4998#comment-17430</guid>
		<description>Did you really need 7.5 gigs of old e-mail sitting on a server somewhere? Most of that storage space was probably image attachments you didn&#039;t even care about. sheesh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Did you really need 7.5 gigs of old e-mail sitting on a server somewhere? Most of that storage space was probably image attachments you didn&#8217;t even care about. sheesh</p>
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		<title>By: wwhyte</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/18/googles-email-nastiness/comment-page-1/#comment-17417</link>
		<dc:creator>wwhyte</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 17:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4998#comment-17417</guid>
		<description>&quot;I will now never receive a large number of emails which might well have been very important.&quot; 

Not to be a dick, but if they&#039;re important the sender will resend, and if the sender doesn&#039;t resend they aren&#039;t that important. Deep breaths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I will now never receive a large number of emails which might well have been very important.&#8221; </p>
<p>Not to be a dick, but if they&#8217;re important the sender will resend, and if the sender doesn&#8217;t resend they aren&#8217;t that important. Deep breaths.</p>
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		<title>By: Curmudgeon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/18/googles-email-nastiness/comment-page-1/#comment-17415</link>
		<dc:creator>Curmudgeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 16:27:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4998#comment-17415</guid>
		<description>What Steve and Chef said.  Google owes you nothing, and in fact still calls Gmail beta software (whether that is a reasonable characterization is a topic for another day).  Your beef is especially ironic coming from someone in the publishing industry, which has been trying to make the case for many years that content should not be free.  So we should pay for content, but not for software and services that we count on?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Steve and Chef said.  Google owes you nothing, and in fact still calls Gmail beta software (whether that is a reasonable characterization is a topic for another day).  Your beef is especially ironic coming from someone in the publishing industry, which has been trying to make the case for many years that content should not be free.  So we should pay for content, but not for software and services that we count on?</p>
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		<title>By: AnonymousChef</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/18/googles-email-nastiness/comment-page-1/#comment-17414</link>
		<dc:creator>AnonymousChef</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Aug 2010 16:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=4998#comment-17414</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re coming off as very entitled (frankly, bitchy) by throwing a blogfit about this, Felix.  

You&#039;re in a very rare situation, as someone near the limit who doesn&#039;t use the browser. Its not surprising that a free product wasn&#039;t optimally set up for your  situation - especially since you&#039;re among the most expensive gmail customers (you miss the ads but max out the space you use).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re coming off as very entitled (frankly, bitchy) by throwing a blogfit about this, Felix.  </p>
<p>You&#8217;re in a very rare situation, as someone near the limit who doesn&#8217;t use the browser. Its not surprising that a free product wasn&#8217;t optimally set up for your  situation &#8211; especially since you&#8217;re among the most expensive gmail customers (you miss the ads but max out the space you use).</p>
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