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	<title>Comments on: GDP: the best kind of bad news</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/27/gdp-the-best-kind-of-bad-news/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/27/gdp-the-best-kind-of-bad-news/</link>
	<description>A slice of lime in the soda</description>
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		<title>By: rodgermitchell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/27/gdp-the-best-kind-of-bad-news/comment-page-1/#comment-17900</link>
		<dc:creator>rodgermitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 13:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=5126#comment-17900</guid>
		<description>TFF,

Actually, I don&#039;t care whether foreign interest in U.S. securities disappears, altogether.  The U.S. government has no need to trade T-securities for dollars. A &lt;b&gt;monetarily sovereign&lt;/b&gt; nation produces its own money by spending.  Borrowing its own money is a relic of the gold standard days.
.
Rodger Malcolm Mitchell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TFF,</p>
<p>Actually, I don&#8217;t care whether foreign interest in U.S. securities disappears, altogether.  The U.S. government has no need to trade T-securities for dollars. A monetarily sovereign nation produces its own money by spending.  Borrowing its own money is a relic of the gold standard days.<br />
.<br />
Rodger Malcolm Mitchell</p>
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		<title>By: TFF</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/27/gdp-the-best-kind-of-bad-news/comment-page-1/#comment-17871</link>
		<dc:creator>TFF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 18:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=5126#comment-17871</guid>
		<description>Rodger, the trade imbalance is over half a trillion dollars annually.  Do you really expect foreign interest in US securities to continue growing at that pace?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rodger, the trade imbalance is over half a trillion dollars annually.  Do you really expect foreign interest in US securities to continue growing at that pace?</p>
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		<title>By: rodgermitchell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/27/gdp-the-best-kind-of-bad-news/comment-page-1/#comment-17854</link>
		<dc:creator>rodgermitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 12:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=5126#comment-17854</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;One way or another, the present situation is unsustainable.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

Why unsustainable?

Rodger Malcolm Mitchell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One way or another, the present situation is unsustainable.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why unsustainable?</p>
<p>Rodger Malcolm Mitchell</p>
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		<title>By: TFF</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/27/gdp-the-best-kind-of-bad-news/comment-page-1/#comment-17812</link>
		<dc:creator>TFF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=5126#comment-17812</guid>
		<description>Rodger is essentially correct.  Our trade deficit is necessarily matched by foreign investment in US securities.  (Think China and Japan buying US Treasuries.)  In a crisis, there are various ways that these obligations can be repudiated, devalued, or outright nationalized.

The problem with those solutions is that any of them would destroy the business-friendly climate that has allowed us to support a massive trade imbalance over the last 15 years.  If foreigners are unwilling to invest in the US, then they will be unwilling to accept dollar-denominated payments in excess of their current needs.

One way or another, the present situation is unsustainable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rodger is essentially correct.  Our trade deficit is necessarily matched by foreign investment in US securities.  (Think China and Japan buying US Treasuries.)  In a crisis, there are various ways that these obligations can be repudiated, devalued, or outright nationalized.</p>
<p>The problem with those solutions is that any of them would destroy the business-friendly climate that has allowed us to support a massive trade imbalance over the last 15 years.  If foreigners are unwilling to invest in the US, then they will be unwilling to accept dollar-denominated payments in excess of their current needs.</p>
<p>One way or another, the present situation is unsustainable.</p>
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		<title>By: rodgermitchell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/27/gdp-the-best-kind-of-bad-news/comment-page-1/#comment-17794</link>
		<dc:creator>rodgermitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 13:29:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=5126#comment-17794</guid>
		<description>For a monetarily sovereign nation, a trade deficit never is bad news for a &lt;b&gt;monetarily sovereign nation&lt;/b&gt;.  It means the monetarily sovereign nation is trading the money it easily creates, at the push of a button, for goods and services.
.
The word &quot;deficit&quot; has even economists confused.  It properly should be called a &quot;trade surplus,&quot; because while we receive hard-to-produce cars and clothing, all our trading partners get is our money, which the central government can create in infinite quantity, with no effort whatsoever.
.
The situation is different for the PIIGS, which are not monetarily sovereign, and so do not have the unlimited ability to create money.
.
The key is &lt;a href=&quot;http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2010/08/13/monetarily-sovereign-the-key-to-understanding-economics/&quot;&gt;monetary sovereignty,&lt;/a&gt; which must be understood in any discussion of trade or government deficits.
.
Rodger Malcolm Mitchell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a monetarily sovereign nation, a trade deficit never is bad news for a monetarily sovereign nation.  It means the monetarily sovereign nation is trading the money it easily creates, at the push of a button, for goods and services.<br />
.<br />
The word &#8220;deficit&#8221; has even economists confused.  It properly should be called a &#8220;trade surplus,&#8221; because while we receive hard-to-produce cars and clothing, all our trading partners get is our money, which the central government can create in infinite quantity, with no effort whatsoever.<br />
.<br />
The situation is different for the PIIGS, which are not monetarily sovereign, and so do not have the unlimited ability to create money.<br />
.<br />
The key is monetary sovereignty, which must be understood in any discussion of trade or government deficits.<br />
.<br />
Rodger Malcolm Mitchell</p>
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		<title>By: GROCK</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/27/gdp-the-best-kind-of-bad-news/comment-page-1/#comment-17791</link>
		<dc:creator>GROCK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Aug 2010 08:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=5126#comment-17791</guid>
		<description>A trade deficit is not always bad news.

In a recessionary period manufacturers and traders cut back on inventories in order to preserve cash.

A time then comes that whilst it appears one is still in the recessionary period those same manufacturers and traders decide that the time is right to start rebuild their raw materials and stock in order to satisfy what they perceive as increased demand which hopefully would result in increased exports and sales.

The problem is, have they got the timing wrong and or is the defecit in imports over exports as a result of sucking in consummer products as opposed to the materials required for export products.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A trade deficit is not always bad news.</p>
<p>In a recessionary period manufacturers and traders cut back on inventories in order to preserve cash.</p>
<p>A time then comes that whilst it appears one is still in the recessionary period those same manufacturers and traders decide that the time is right to start rebuild their raw materials and stock in order to satisfy what they perceive as increased demand which hopefully would result in increased exports and sales.</p>
<p>The problem is, have they got the timing wrong and or is the defecit in imports over exports as a result of sucking in consummer products as opposed to the materials required for export products.</p>
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		<title>By: rodgermitchell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/27/gdp-the-best-kind-of-bad-news/comment-page-1/#comment-17778</link>
		<dc:creator>rodgermitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Aug 2010 04:13:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=5126#comment-17778</guid>
		<description>Yes, FX fluctuations are not inflation. Glad we have that settled. So?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, FX fluctuations are not inflation. Glad we have that settled. So?</p>
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		<title>By: FifthDecade</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/27/gdp-the-best-kind-of-bad-news/comment-page-1/#comment-17776</link>
		<dc:creator>FifthDecade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Aug 2010 01:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=5126#comment-17776</guid>
		<description>Yes, but there is a difference between causal and correlated relationships. You should separate your arguments for what goes on inside a country (inflation) with what happens outside (FX fluctuations).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but there is a difference between causal and correlated relationships. You should separate your arguments for what goes on inside a country (inflation) with what happens outside (FX fluctuations).</p>
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		<title>By: rodgermitchell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/27/gdp-the-best-kind-of-bad-news/comment-page-1/#comment-17767</link>
		<dc:creator>rodgermitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Aug 2010 15:11:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=5126#comment-17767</guid>
		<description>The hyperinflation of Germany was caused by the onerous payment conditions put on them as a result of WWI. The hyperinflation of Zimbabwe was caused by civil war, Robert Mugabe and his band of criminals.  In both cases, money printing was a &lt;i&gt;result&lt;/i&gt; of the hyperinflation, not the cause.
.
In nearly all cases, hyperinflation causes money printing, not the other way around, and is caused by economic circumstances unique to each country.
.
Did you look at the report at &lt;a href=&quot;http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2010/04/06/more-thoughts-on-inflation/&quot;&gt;INFLATION?&lt;/a&gt;
.
Rodger Malcolm Mitchell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The hyperinflation of Germany was caused by the onerous payment conditions put on them as a result of WWI. The hyperinflation of Zimbabwe was caused by civil war, Robert Mugabe and his band of criminals.  In both cases, money printing was a result of the hyperinflation, not the cause.<br />
.<br />
In nearly all cases, hyperinflation causes money printing, not the other way around, and is caused by economic circumstances unique to each country.<br />
.<br />
Did you look at the report at INFLATION?<br />
.<br />
Rodger Malcolm Mitchell</p>
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		<title>By: FifthDecade</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/27/gdp-the-best-kind-of-bad-news/comment-page-1/#comment-17766</link>
		<dc:creator>FifthDecade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=5126#comment-17766</guid>
		<description>Hmm, so printing money never undermines the value of the currency? You seem to have forgotten what happened in Europe in the 1930s, and in Zimbabwe in the last decade when hyperinflation from printing extra money severely weakened the currency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm, so printing money never undermines the value of the currency? You seem to have forgotten what happened in Europe in the 1930s, and in Zimbabwe in the last decade when hyperinflation from printing extra money severely weakened the currency.</p>
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		<title>By: rodgermitchell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/27/gdp-the-best-kind-of-bad-news/comment-page-1/#comment-17765</link>
		<dc:creator>rodgermitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Aug 2010 13:27:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=5126#comment-17765</guid>
		<description>Economic myths injure our economy.  Mr. &quot;Beh&quot; quotes one of those myths: &quot;As the supply of money goes up (i.e. you print more money), the value of your currency depreciates . . .&quot; Widely believed, yet historically false. 
.
Since 1971, the end of the gold standard, there has been zero relationship between federal deficit spending (which increases the money supply) and inflation.  The reasons why can be seen at &lt;a href=&quot;http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2010/04/06/more-thoughts-on-inflation/&quot;&gt; INFLATION &lt;/a&gt;. 
.
An unnamed person lol&#039;d at this statement: &quot;The U.S. federal government has the unlimited ability to create money, just by pushing a button.&quot; That is exactly the way the federal government creates money, which is nothing more than notations in electronic balance sheets.
.
If you who would like to spend one half hour learning more about economics than you believed possible, I recommend &lt;a href=&quot;http://moslereconomics.com/2009/12/10/7-deadly-innocent-frauds/&quot;&gt; 7 Deadly Innocent Frauds&lt;/a&gt; by Warren Mosler.  It lists the myths and the realities of economics.
.
Rodger Malcolm Mitchell</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Economic myths injure our economy.  Mr. &#8220;Beh&#8221; quotes one of those myths: &#8220;As the supply of money goes up (i.e. you print more money), the value of your currency depreciates . . .&#8221; Widely believed, yet historically false.<br />
.<br />
Since 1971, the end of the gold standard, there has been zero relationship between federal deficit spending (which increases the money supply) and inflation.  The reasons why can be seen at  INFLATION .<br />
.<br />
An unnamed person lol&#8217;d at this statement: &#8220;The U.S. federal government has the unlimited ability to create money, just by pushing a button.&#8221; That is exactly the way the federal government creates money, which is nothing more than notations in electronic balance sheets.<br />
.<br />
If you who would like to spend one half hour learning more about economics than you believed possible, I recommend  7 Deadly Innocent Frauds by Warren Mosler.  It lists the myths and the realities of economics.<br />
.<br />
Rodger Malcolm Mitchell</p>
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		<title>By: FifthDecade</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/27/gdp-the-best-kind-of-bad-news/comment-page-1/#comment-17757</link>
		<dc:creator>FifthDecade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 23:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=5126#comment-17757</guid>
		<description>Chasing worker wages ever downwards is a dangerously misleading attraction. It&#039;s a simplistic attitude based on the greed of &quot;less for them equals more for me&quot; thinking.

It doesn&#039;t have to be that way: Germany has fairly high labour costs yet is a net exporter of goods, including to both the US and China. But in Germany, investors have long term horizons and employers invest in staff and plant, while the education system produces highly competent and technically sophisticated workers with high productivity levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chasing worker wages ever downwards is a dangerously misleading attraction. It&#8217;s a simplistic attitude based on the greed of &#8220;less for them equals more for me&#8221; thinking.</p>
<p>It doesn&#8217;t have to be that way: Germany has fairly high labour costs yet is a net exporter of goods, including to both the US and China. But in Germany, investors have long term horizons and employers invest in staff and plant, while the education system produces highly competent and technically sophisticated workers with high productivity levels.</p>
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		<title>By: Beh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/27/gdp-the-best-kind-of-bad-news/comment-page-1/#comment-17755</link>
		<dc:creator>Beh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 22:36:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=5126#comment-17755</guid>
		<description>“Obviously, a trade surplus would be better than a trade deficit, especially in terms of generating employment growth domestically rather than abroad.”

I&#039;m a little puzzled as to what kind of conventional wisdom that statement would be &quot;obvious&quot;.  It&#039;s not trade balances that affect employment, rather domestic conditions (including employment) that affect trade balances.  In fact, the US has had a growing trade deficit since the mid 70&#039;s during preiods of economic expansion and the only time this trade deficit has decreased has been during the 4 recessions (i.e. the exact opposite of the &quot;obvious&quot; conclusion you&#039;re making).  One extremely important factor to keep in mind is that the value of imports does not differentiate between raw material and finished products.  Much of the imports to the US are for raw material used in the manufacturing of goods for both domestic consumption and exports.

Also to Mr. Mitchell with that rather simplistic view.  You can not simply print money and expect your money to be worth the same amount to your trading partner (i.e. the Chinese are neither stupid nor your &quot;servants&quot;).  As the supply of money goes up (i.e. you print more money), the value of your currency depreciates, making the same goods cost more the next time you import them (i.e. your trading partner will ask you for more money for the same item).  This will go on until it costs less to produce the same item domestically at which point you&#039;ll see the US trade deficit starting to come down.  This is not going to happen until at least the middle of this decade when Chinese labour costs near those of the US - which means US labour costs will shrink and Chinese ones will expand.  In other words, until this master servant relationship is shattered, you will see China&#039;s export driven economy be a drag on the US.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“Obviously, a trade surplus would be better than a trade deficit, especially in terms of generating employment growth domestically rather than abroad.”</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a little puzzled as to what kind of conventional wisdom that statement would be &#8220;obvious&#8221;.  It&#8217;s not trade balances that affect employment, rather domestic conditions (including employment) that affect trade balances.  In fact, the US has had a growing trade deficit since the mid 70&#8242;s during preiods of economic expansion and the only time this trade deficit has decreased has been during the 4 recessions (i.e. the exact opposite of the &#8220;obvious&#8221; conclusion you&#8217;re making).  One extremely important factor to keep in mind is that the value of imports does not differentiate between raw material and finished products.  Much of the imports to the US are for raw material used in the manufacturing of goods for both domestic consumption and exports.</p>
<p>Also to Mr. Mitchell with that rather simplistic view.  You can not simply print money and expect your money to be worth the same amount to your trading partner (i.e. the Chinese are neither stupid nor your &#8220;servants&#8221;).  As the supply of money goes up (i.e. you print more money), the value of your currency depreciates, making the same goods cost more the next time you import them (i.e. your trading partner will ask you for more money for the same item).  This will go on until it costs less to produce the same item domestically at which point you&#8217;ll see the US trade deficit starting to come down.  This is not going to happen until at least the middle of this decade when Chinese labour costs near those of the US &#8211; which means US labour costs will shrink and Chinese ones will expand.  In other words, until this master servant relationship is shattered, you will see China&#8217;s export driven economy be a drag on the US.</p>
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		<title>By: FifthDecade</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/27/gdp-the-best-kind-of-bad-news/comment-page-1/#comment-17754</link>
		<dc:creator>FifthDecade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 21:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=5126#comment-17754</guid>
		<description>The USD has been on a downward slide for a number of years, driven by the double deficit in both govt spending and trade. Weak monetary policy has driven imports upwards, while profligate Republican spending was on a Bridge to Nowhere while cutting too many taxes during a period of wartime spending.

Clearly a weaker currency increases the costs of imports, and the appetite for them of the US consumer is unparalleled in the Western world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The USD has been on a downward slide for a number of years, driven by the double deficit in both govt spending and trade. Weak monetary policy has driven imports upwards, while profligate Republican spending was on a Bridge to Nowhere while cutting too many taxes during a period of wartime spending.</p>
<p>Clearly a weaker currency increases the costs of imports, and the appetite for them of the US consumer is unparalleled in the Western world.</p>
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		<title>By: mastershakejb</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2010/08/27/gdp-the-best-kind-of-bad-news/comment-page-1/#comment-17750</link>
		<dc:creator>mastershakejb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Aug 2010 21:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=5126#comment-17750</guid>
		<description>lol @ comment &quot;just by pusing a button&quot; by Rodger
This guy clearly has no idea what he&#039;s talking about. Also, the money creation that the US is currently doing, is already undermining it as a reserve currency, steps are already in motion for countries to dedollarize around the world and buy other currencies as reserves. The more money the US prints, the faster other countries move towards getting rid of the Dollar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lol @ comment &#8220;just by pusing a button&#8221; by Rodger<br />
This guy clearly has no idea what he&#8217;s talking about. Also, the money creation that the US is currently doing, is already undermining it as a reserve currency, steps are already in motion for countries to dedollarize around the world and buy other currencies as reserves. The more money the US prints, the faster other countries move towards getting rid of the Dollar.</p>
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