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	<title>Comments on: Hidden bank fee of the day, wholesale FX edition</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/05/23/hidden-bank-fee-of-the-day-wholesale-fx-edition/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/05/23/hidden-bank-fee-of-the-day-wholesale-fx-edition/</link>
	<description>A slice of lime in the soda</description>
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		<title>By: busterC</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/05/23/hidden-bank-fee-of-the-day-wholesale-fx-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-27068</link>
		<dc:creator>busterC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2011 18:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=8367#comment-27068</guid>
		<description>Orannge County, anyone?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Orannge County, anyone?</p>
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		<title>By: busterC</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/05/23/hidden-bank-fee-of-the-day-wholesale-fx-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-27067</link>
		<dc:creator>busterC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2011 18:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=8367#comment-27067</guid>
		<description>Should the LA Pension fund be trading FX? Do they hire FX traders? Do theyu do any due diligence. When they get any OTC product from any bank, they get spread wide like canyons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should the LA Pension fund be trading FX? Do they hire FX traders? Do theyu do any due diligence. When they get any OTC product from any bank, they get spread wide like canyons.</p>
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		<title>By: busterC</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/05/23/hidden-bank-fee-of-the-day-wholesale-fx-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-27066</link>
		<dc:creator>busterC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2011 18:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=8367#comment-27066</guid>
		<description>People pay 10% above the self serve price for gas all the time when they dont want to do the work. 

The gray prices are not &quot;impossible&quot;. When a small client trades a small amount at a weird time of day they get the IB rate plus a spread. Easy to make that outside of the days range. 

The pension funds &quot;should&quot; care. They should check rates. THey should ask for a better deal. Or an indexed rate or banchmark rate, all commonly available.

This is exposing the &quot;easy&quot; and expensive way.

he WSJ inflated the typical deal size to make a point. These deal sizes are small.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People pay 10% above the self serve price for gas all the time when they dont want to do the work. </p>
<p>The gray prices are not &#8220;impossible&#8221;. When a small client trades a small amount at a weird time of day they get the IB rate plus a spread. Easy to make that outside of the days range. </p>
<p>The pension funds &#8220;should&#8221; care. They should check rates. THey should ask for a better deal. Or an indexed rate or banchmark rate, all commonly available.</p>
<p>This is exposing the &#8220;easy&#8221; and expensive way.</p>
<p>he WSJ inflated the typical deal size to make a point. These deal sizes are small.</p>
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		<title>By: dedalus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/05/23/hidden-bank-fee-of-the-day-wholesale-fx-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-27043</link>
		<dc:creator>dedalus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 May 2011 00:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=8367#comment-27043</guid>
		<description>Its not obvious to me by how much the complainant was overcharged. BONY&#039;s opaque pricing methodology doesn&#039;t surprise me. But why is the complainant NOT executing their trades via Hotspot, EBS, Currenex or Reuters? (Hotspot provides excellent fills on odd-lots.) In other words, is the cost of do-it-yourself fx-trading via the ECNs greater than the all-in costs charged by banks like BONY? I&#039;d guess no, which leads me to wonder: why does any institutional fx trader use a bank instead of an ecn for their executions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its not obvious to me by how much the complainant was overcharged. BONY&#8217;s opaque pricing methodology doesn&#8217;t surprise me. But why is the complainant NOT executing their trades via Hotspot, EBS, Currenex or Reuters? (Hotspot provides excellent fills on odd-lots.) In other words, is the cost of do-it-yourself fx-trading via the ECNs greater than the all-in costs charged by banks like BONY? I&#8217;d guess no, which leads me to wonder: why does any institutional fx trader use a bank instead of an ecn for their executions?</p>
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		<title>By: BarryKelly</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/05/23/hidden-bank-fee-of-the-day-wholesale-fx-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-27034</link>
		<dc:creator>BarryKelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 20:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=8367#comment-27034</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think that WSJ link is correct.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think that WSJ link is correct.</p>
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		<title>By: Publius</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/05/23/hidden-bank-fee-of-the-day-wholesale-fx-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-27033</link>
		<dc:creator>Publius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 20:44:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=8367#comment-27033</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m shocked, shocked that banks make profits by making markets. Um, Felix, I used to trade currencies in a small African country. We had to pay for our terminals, our electricity, and the people who came to clean the bathroom. We took a spread--1%, 2%, 3%--based on the client&#039;s credit, whenever we traded currencies.

When forex settled, we would wire the money blindly to the counterparty, and pray that they would wire the amount we were due back. That was &quot;clean risk,&quot; a credit exposure. Nasty, hairy stuff. All around the world, with all kinds of counterparties, in Japan, Hong Kong, Africa, Europe. 

And we had to hold capital against it. So, I was supposed to make markets against odd-lot players and quote them the round-lot price, because Reuters was giving away terminals? Not!

My clients were free to price my offering against the competition. And never, Never, NEVER did I discuss my offering price with my competitor. Even if I were so inclined, there would not be time.

FX is an OTC market. Very competitive, very fast. And the poor pension fund managers couldn&#039;t be bothered to check the bid away? Please. The real scandal is that they charged a management fee for their crappy performance, not that the bank made money on a spread.

BTW, I&#039;m with a small asset manager now. Too small to compete for a big bad pension fund like LA&#039;s. Because the consultants never consider execution, just structure. And size. Bigger is always better. Again: not. Who was the manager? And who was the consultant who recommended them? Now there&#039;s a story!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m shocked, shocked that banks make profits by making markets. Um, Felix, I used to trade currencies in a small African country. We had to pay for our terminals, our electricity, and the people who came to clean the bathroom. We took a spread&#8211;1%, 2%, 3%&#8211;based on the client&#8217;s credit, whenever we traded currencies.</p>
<p>When forex settled, we would wire the money blindly to the counterparty, and pray that they would wire the amount we were due back. That was &#8220;clean risk,&#8221; a credit exposure. Nasty, hairy stuff. All around the world, with all kinds of counterparties, in Japan, Hong Kong, Africa, Europe. </p>
<p>And we had to hold capital against it. So, I was supposed to make markets against odd-lot players and quote them the round-lot price, because Reuters was giving away terminals? Not!</p>
<p>My clients were free to price my offering against the competition. And never, Never, NEVER did I discuss my offering price with my competitor. Even if I were so inclined, there would not be time.</p>
<p>FX is an OTC market. Very competitive, very fast. And the poor pension fund managers couldn&#8217;t be bothered to check the bid away? Please. The real scandal is that they charged a management fee for their crappy performance, not that the bank made money on a spread.</p>
<p>BTW, I&#8217;m with a small asset manager now. Too small to compete for a big bad pension fund like LA&#8217;s. Because the consultants never consider execution, just structure. And size. Bigger is always better. Again: not. Who was the manager? And who was the consultant who recommended them? Now there&#8217;s a story!</p>
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		<title>By: patrick_bateman</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/05/23/hidden-bank-fee-of-the-day-wholesale-fx-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-27018</link>
		<dc:creator>patrick_bateman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 May 2011 16:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=8367#comment-27018</guid>
		<description>But don&#039;t OTC markets like FX do, well, precisely that? That is, quote a price to retail or institutional customers that&#039;s not as good as they could get in the interbank market, precisely because we&#039;re not trading in units of millions there. I don&#039;t think there&#039;s the concept of &quot;best execution&quot; in FX.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But don&#8217;t OTC markets like FX do, well, precisely that? That is, quote a price to retail or institutional customers that&#8217;s not as good as they could get in the interbank market, precisely because we&#8217;re not trading in units of millions there. I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s the concept of &#8220;best execution&#8221; in FX.</p>
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