Comments on: What happens on August 3? http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/07/what-happens-on-august-3/ A slice of lime in the soda Sun, 26 Oct 2014 19:05:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: JWnTX http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/07/what-happens-on-august-3/comment-page-1/#comment-28472 Wed, 13 Jul 2011 00:42:40 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=8889#comment-28472 Oh, and guess what? The Dems have raised the debt ceiling SIX times without raising taxes. But now it’s essential? BS. They’re milking this for nothing but political gain and trying to set up the Republicans as the bad guys because they’re proposing fiscal responsibility in government.

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By: JWnTX http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/07/what-happens-on-august-3/comment-page-1/#comment-28471 Wed, 13 Jul 2011 00:39:17 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=8889#comment-28471 So it’s irresponsible to live within your means? Hardly. It’s irresponsible to tell the people that we can continue to spend at a breakneck pace and never have to pay the bill. The radicals, the extremists here, are the Democrats.

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By: DavidAi http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/07/what-happens-on-august-3/comment-page-1/#comment-28455 Tue, 12 Jul 2011 22:11:38 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=8889#comment-28455 The 14th Amendment does not authorize new debt. Social Security payments are not legal debt; they are political/moral debt. Congress can change SS any time they want to. The federal government gets about $190 Billion each month. Interest on the debt is about $30 Billion each month. That leaves $160 Billion for various programs. Congress will have to start picking and choosing which programs to save and which to throw under the bus. They don’t want to. Congress needs to grow up.

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By: ufmace http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/07/what-happens-on-august-3/comment-page-1/#comment-28452 Tue, 12 Jul 2011 21:56:43 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=8889#comment-28452 The relevant part of the 14th amendment says: “The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law… shall not be questioned.” Wonder why nobody else seems to have posted that yet.

Looks to me like the President raising the debt limit would be blatantly unconstitutional. It says the validity of public dept authorized by law, and only Congress has the authority to authorize public debt. Any president trying a stunt like that ought to be impeached, not that it seems to have stopped anyone before.

FWIW, tax hikes may be necessary to get us completely out of this mess, but I want to see big spending cuts before we even think about it.

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By: realchrisw http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/07/what-happens-on-august-3/comment-page-1/#comment-28428 Tue, 12 Jul 2011 04:09:25 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=8889#comment-28428 Take a deep breath and repeat after me, the President does not have the authority to use the 14th amendment to increase the debt ceiling. What it says is that the debt must be paid.

It may also come as a shocker but Leviathan has enough money coming in to pay it’s debts “authorized by law”.

There’s plenty of other things that will just have to go unfunded. Obamacare would be a good start.

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By: gpatrick850 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/07/what-happens-on-august-3/comment-page-1/#comment-28421 Mon, 11 Jul 2011 22:48:45 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=8889#comment-28421 Some of you got it wrong.
There are several way the president can act. Two under the 14 amendment, other two under an emergency powers or law.

On the 14th amendment. They key words I am focusing on is “If congress fails to act”

1st way Congress
Congress fails to act by August 1st 11:59 p.m ET, then the President has the authority to raise the debit ceiling under the 14th amendment. He or any President would have to do it or could get impeached for not doing it. From me reading full 14 Amendment, he or another other president would have no choice to do this.

2nd way
This is a little more sticky. He could veto the bill & use the 14th amendment

3rd way
Is temporarily declare an national emergency & using emergency powers to raise the debit ceiling.

4th way
He could raise the debit ceiling under National Security laws.

As to the other comment.

People have to pay their bills, I am sure telling you credit card company, landlord or your mortgage company you social security or will not come this month will be fine with them. Which mean more people will be out on the street. Do you really want you grandfather, grandmother on the street?

He or any president would have to do some type of emergency action even if it maybe illegal. That for the courts to decide.

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By: RichardHSerlin http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/07/what-happens-on-august-3/comment-page-1/#comment-28381 Sat, 09 Jul 2011 23:42:37 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=8889#comment-28381 Could you also argue that when Congress passed $X of spending, but only $Y of taxes, they implicitly agreed to borrow X – Y dollars? So they did give their constitutionally required approval to borrow those dollars? This makes great sense to me.

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By: hostdude99 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/07/what-happens-on-august-3/comment-page-1/#comment-28346 Fri, 08 Jul 2011 17:45:36 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=8889#comment-28346 What a joke. What’s really irresponsible is pretending that our ever increasing debt has no consequences. Is the worst thing to say on August 2nd that some payments will have to be delayed until the politicians on both sides can come to an agreement. Or is the worst thing to say its business as usual and we’re going to go ahead and keep up the borrowing without much change to our long term trajectory? As long as the debt increases the way it has been over the last decade, the Republicans AND the Democrats would be delinquent in their duties to their country not to examine the debt everytime it needs to be increased.

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By: FUMFKR http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/07/what-happens-on-august-3/comment-page-1/#comment-28325 Fri, 08 Jul 2011 15:22:31 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=8889#comment-28325 Pres. Clnton + Rep. Congress = budget surplus & strong economy
Pres. Bush + Rep. Congress + 9/11 = 2 new wars ->> Increased spending and budget deficit
Pres. Bush + Dem. Congress = dramatic increase spending and amplification of budget deficit
Policy authored by Dems & Repubs to give home loans to people not able to afford + wall street speculation on hi risk home loans = bad recession
Pres. Obama + Dem. Congress = sky’s the limit spending because $$ grow on trees
Pres. Obama + Dem Congress = NO Congressional budget > 2 YEARS

Sorry to remind those above regarding debate of 14th Amendment – I think you’re willingly ignoring the bigger picture.

This President and a Dem Congress has no intention of repaying the $$$ borrowed. The 14th Amendment has only become an issue after a new crop of Repubs were elected who, though mixed in with the old, do not share the ‘spend like crazy’ mentality.

Of course you need to increase revenue in addition to reducing spending. However, this President and Dem leaders aren’t helping either. No tax increase is uncompromising – agreed… But frankly, as a taxpayer, it would be a confidence builder to me to know that the fed gov’t, and secondarily state gov’ts following, can reverse their spending carelessness & spend wisely.

None of the above commenters would keep giving $$$ to someone who just spends it, only coming back once yearly to ask for more…

Current Dem leadership have been even MORE irresponsible by not passing a budget x 2 years, then saying $hit like “Entitlements are off the table.”

– Cut Pentagon spending? Sure! Cut it 10%.
– Lets also eliminate ALL tax loopholes for big businesses – which donate to both political parties – but drop the corporate tax rate so they still have incentive to create jobs.
– Allow US companies the freedom with less regulation to develop natural gas resources here in the US – another industry to increase income, increase new jobs, increase tax revenues, and increase revenues from exports while decreasing dependence on foreign oil. Both ND & TX are doing fairly well b/c of this. (Hypocritical to say, ‘No drilling.’ here in the US, butgivint $2 billion to Petrobas, then telling Brazil we want to be their biggest importer…)
– Let’s eliminate gov’t grant funding for things that private non-profit organizations can raise $$$ for – essentially everything – except the NIH, CDC, & NSF.
– Allow individual states to target their individual needs more specifically at the state level. Why should someone’s taxes from any state be used to help prop up other states going broke?
– pass laws making lobbying illegal for EVERYONE
– aggressively investigate & prosecute ANY politician who commits fraudulent or corrupt actions resulting in their personal financial benefit or evades taxes
– eliminating all earmarks… if an individual state wants a project that will only have local impact or benefit, let that be a state funding matter, nit a federal funding matter
– term limits of 2 for Senate, or 6 for House (total 12 years)
– eliminate tax deductions for ANY donation to ANY political organization

– And yes, combine Medicaid & Medicare while cutting their budget by 10% to eliminate redundancy & waste.
– And yes, prosecute Medicaid & Medicare fraud & loss.
– And yes, consider repealing Obamacare – no 2000pg bill should ever be passed without substantial open debate… from either party.
– And yes, reduce Social Security funding by 10%, & making the following ineligible for SS:
– anyone = 67yo w/ indiv total assets >= $750 thousand or combined pr >= $1 million;
– this can be amplified for those truly in need by eliminating the death/inheritance tax
– any person convicted of a felony after the age of 50
– this isn’t even yet approaching consolidating many federal agencies which serve redundant functions providing social services
– no social benefits whatsoever for people residing illegally in this country, and immediate loss of social benefits (& repayment if collection had started) for those who hire & exploit those here illegally

The above is just a start…

When the Federal Government demonstrates it can rein in it’s spending, then I would have more confidence & less problems that when my taxes are raised, that the funds would be used wisely, not to benefit some corrupt politicians’ cronies…

So you can debate the 14 th Amendment & point fingers, but the sad fact is that you are doing no different that arguing with a credit card bank/ company to raise your spending limit while you make minimum payment, or threaten to walk away from paying. The question shouldn’t be, “How much should we raise the debt ceiling?” The question should be, after stopping & thinking, “Should we raise the debt ceiling? Perhaps it is a necessity, but shouldn’t be done so frivolously, should be done with embarrassment, and should be done with A LOT of CUTS in spending now…

Moody’s, Pimco, S&P haven’t yet downgraded the US Federal Credit status, but I already have. I get the sense that I am in no means by myself.

Point fingers at whoever you want. It’s moot – this country is in serious trouble financially. If all of you are okay with the fact that we are here now because of politicians of ANY stripe has been making promises they cannot keep, at someone else’s expense, then look in the mirror andvstart bitching at yourselves…. Nothing says you can’t donate more of your hard earned $$$ on the bottom line of your Federal or State tax returns… But I suspect that most of you don’t.

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By: SMike http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/07/what-happens-on-august-3/comment-page-1/#comment-28318 Fri, 08 Jul 2011 14:54:18 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=8889#comment-28318 1. Issuing new debt to pay the principal on debt mauring on August 4 does not increase the total debt. Therefore, this is not a problem caused by failing to increase the debt limit.
2. Bills can be paid in the short term by “creating money.” Money was most recently created in the Quantitative Easings 1 and 2. Congress was not involved in these actions. This is a short term solution only, because creating money diminishes the value of our currency.
3. If congress fails to raise the debt ceiling, defaulting on the debt is a CHOICE that the president makes. There is enough revenue to continue paying on the debt. If he chooses to fund the ever-increasing federal programs rather than paying on the debt, that would be irresponsible, but it is his decision.

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