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	<title>Comments on: Greece defaults</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/21/greece-defaults/</link>
	<description>A slice of lime in the soda</description>
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		<title>By: CienMichel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/21/greece-defaults/comment-page-1/#comment-31686</link>
		<dc:creator>CienMichel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 23:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9068#comment-31686</guid>
		<description>If Greece defaults, it won’t be the first government to renege on its financial obligations, but its failure would set a new record, both for scale and complexity.

At the moment, the dubious honour of biggest deadbeat goes to Argentina, which failed to make good on its government debts in December 2001, to the tune of about $100 billion US.
but yes its quite important that What Will Be Outcome Of Greece Debt Crisis. http://www.abnglobalonline.com/what-will-be-outcome-of-greece-debt-crisis/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Greece defaults, it won’t be the first government to renege on its financial obligations, but its failure would set a new record, both for scale and complexity.</p>
<p>At the moment, the dubious honour of biggest deadbeat goes to Argentina, which failed to make good on its government debts in December 2001, to the tune of about $100 billion US.<br />
but yes its quite important that What Will Be Outcome Of Greece Debt Crisis. <a href='http://www.abnglobalonline.com/what-will-be-outcome-of-greece-debt-crisis/'>http://www.abnglobalonline.com/what-will -be-outcome-of-greece-debt-crisis/</a></p>
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		<title>By: CienMichel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/21/greece-defaults/comment-page-1/#comment-31685</link>
		<dc:creator>CienMichel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 23:26:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9068#comment-31685</guid>
		<description>If Greece defaults, it won&#039;t be the first government to renege on its financial obligations, but its failure would set a new record, both for scale and complexity.

At the moment, the dubious honour of biggest deadbeat goes to Argentina, which failed to make good on its government debts in December 2001, to the tune of about $100 billion US.
but yes its quite important that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.abnglobalonline.com/what-will-be-outcome-of-greece-debt-crisis/&quot;&gt;What Will Be Outcome Of Greece Debt Crisis&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Greece defaults, it won&#8217;t be the first government to renege on its financial obligations, but its failure would set a new record, both for scale and complexity.</p>
<p>At the moment, the dubious honour of biggest deadbeat goes to Argentina, which failed to make good on its government debts in December 2001, to the tune of about $100 billion US.<br />
but yes its quite important that What Will Be Outcome Of Greece Debt Crisis.</p>
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		<title>By: georgesoil</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/21/greece-defaults/comment-page-1/#comment-28869</link>
		<dc:creator>georgesoil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jul 2011 14:16:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9068#comment-28869</guid>
		<description>i guess europeans(who are these people?those who speak with irony for their portuguese mothers travelling too much?unless europe gets rid of this mentality that one can only get pleasure out of the death of the cow of the neighbour,there is no future in europe .not a peacefull one.because ,as history shows ,wherever there is poverty and hunger ,on one side and luxury on the other the clash is unavoidable.
nowdays with all the police forces ,the europol,the training for unconventional warfare in cities ,seems to me someone is preparing a war.and its not me.
Of course here serious people are interested in how much profit they will get out of all this.one thought :where the hell are you going to spend it if the world is a miserable place around you?you will enjoy having a drink next to some dying mothers and their kids?..i guess some would enjoy that .....thats the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i guess europeans(who are these people?those who speak with irony for their portuguese mothers travelling too much?unless europe gets rid of this mentality that one can only get pleasure out of the death of the cow of the neighbour,there is no future in europe .not a peacefull one.because ,as history shows ,wherever there is poverty and hunger ,on one side and luxury on the other the clash is unavoidable.<br />
nowdays with all the police forces ,the europol,the training for unconventional warfare in cities ,seems to me someone is preparing a war.and its not me.<br />
Of course here serious people are interested in how much profit they will get out of all this.one thought :where the hell are you going to spend it if the world is a miserable place around you?you will enjoy having a drink next to some dying mothers and their kids?..i guess some would enjoy that &#8230;..thats the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Caroline199</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/21/greece-defaults/comment-page-1/#comment-28845</link>
		<dc:creator>Caroline199</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 17:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9068#comment-28845</guid>
		<description>Good article and the first I have seen that asks the question about the option not shown by IIF proposal. 

What happens if I - as a private citizen - holding a maturing bond decide not have a 21% write-off and do nothing.  Assuming there is not another restructuring within the short term, am I compelled to take one of the IIF menu choices.  I think no is the answer - hence why the CDS contracts are not triggered?

Best of luck reaching that 90% participation rate!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article and the first I have seen that asks the question about the option not shown by IIF proposal. </p>
<p>What happens if I &#8211; as a private citizen &#8211; holding a maturing bond decide not have a 21% write-off and do nothing.  Assuming there is not another restructuring within the short term, am I compelled to take one of the IIF menu choices.  I think no is the answer &#8211; hence why the CDS contracts are not triggered?</p>
<p>Best of luck reaching that 90% participation rate!</p>
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		<title>By: anastazio2</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/21/greece-defaults/comment-page-1/#comment-28832</link>
		<dc:creator>anastazio2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 13:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9068#comment-28832</guid>
		<description>Greece has not defaulted quite yet.

There has been a new set of measures and loans announced.
There might (probably will) be temporary or selective default. 

But your title is not consistent with last night&#039;s news- its wrong and misleading.

It makes me feel like you used it as linkbait.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greece has not defaulted quite yet.</p>
<p>There has been a new set of measures and loans announced.<br />
There might (probably will) be temporary or selective default. </p>
<p>But your title is not consistent with last night&#8217;s news- its wrong and misleading.</p>
<p>It makes me feel like you used it as linkbait.</p>
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		<title>By: Sally32</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/21/greece-defaults/comment-page-1/#comment-28831</link>
		<dc:creator>Sally32</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 12:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9068#comment-28831</guid>
		<description>Is there not something of a discrepancy between the interest-rate promised on this deal Felix and the interest-rate at which the shareholders of the EFSF can actually borrow at? I saw this expressed well on twitter yesterday.

&quot;How can Greece now pay 3.5% on 15 year borrowing from an institution (EFSF) of which a 18% shareholder Italy has to pay 5.74%. Alchemy?

How can Greece now pay 3.5% on 15 year borrowing from an institution (EFSF) of which a 12% shareholder Spain has to pay 6.11%. Alchemy?&quot;

@notayesmansecon on twitter

As the scale of the borrowing increases these have to become more serious matters or Germany will find herself as the back stop paying a much higher rate of interest on her bunds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there not something of a discrepancy between the interest-rate promised on this deal Felix and the interest-rate at which the shareholders of the EFSF can actually borrow at? I saw this expressed well on twitter yesterday.</p>
<p>&#8220;How can Greece now pay 3.5% on 15 year borrowing from an institution (EFSF) of which a 18% shareholder Italy has to pay 5.74%. Alchemy?</p>
<p>How can Greece now pay 3.5% on 15 year borrowing from an institution (EFSF) of which a 12% shareholder Spain has to pay 6.11%. Alchemy?&#8221;</p>
<p>@notayesmansecon on twitter</p>
<p>As the scale of the borrowing increases these have to become more serious matters or Germany will find herself as the back stop paying a much higher rate of interest on her bunds.</p>
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		<title>By: plubber</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/21/greece-defaults/comment-page-1/#comment-28830</link>
		<dc:creator>plubber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 12:09:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9068#comment-28830</guid>
		<description>In 2041 Greece will be underwater, right alongside Atlantis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 2041 Greece will be underwater, right alongside Atlantis.</p>
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		<title>By: hariknaidu</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/21/greece-defaults/comment-page-1/#comment-28829</link>
		<dc:creator>hariknaidu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 10:07:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9068#comment-28829</guid>
		<description>Felix is as usual more reasonable than his (other) American colleagues because he understands Euro Project is in principle a political project. Macroeconomics - aside - don&#039;t trumph the EU Project and its political imperatives - kosta was es will! Germany succumbed to the political pre-requisite to bailout Greece, as an exceptional case.

Yet, the precedent has been put in place with Greece default more or less inevitable.

Bottom line, for most of you (Anglo)Eurosceptics, is rather simple - there is no way German Central Bank can stop the march towards establishing a socalled *transfer union* now that Eurobonds are formalized in the decision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Felix is as usual more reasonable than his (other) American colleagues because he understands Euro Project is in principle a political project. Macroeconomics &#8211; aside &#8211; don&#8217;t trumph the EU Project and its political imperatives &#8211; kosta was es will! Germany succumbed to the political pre-requisite to bailout Greece, as an exceptional case.</p>
<p>Yet, the precedent has been put in place with Greece default more or less inevitable.</p>
<p>Bottom line, for most of you (Anglo)Eurosceptics, is rather simple &#8211; there is no way German Central Bank can stop the march towards establishing a socalled *transfer union* now that Eurobonds are formalized in the decision.</p>
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		<title>By: Gray62</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/21/greece-defaults/comment-page-1/#comment-28828</link>
		<dc:creator>Gray62</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 08:35:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9068#comment-28828</guid>
		<description>&quot;They are buying stocks and the euro like all Europe’s woes have disappeared.&quot;
Average deficit of EU governments: 6%. Defict of US government: 11.2%.

&quot;So far for the freedom of contract in the European Union.&quot;
In the EU, like almost everywhere, contracts are subject to legal requirements. And laws can be changed.

And then, when creditors reduce the burden of a debtor, can or should this be called &quot;default&quot;? I don&#039;t think so. Definition of default: &quot;failure to fulfil an obligation, especially to repay a loan or appear in a law court&quot; But Greece fulfills the obligations that have been altered by the creditors. That&#039;s something different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;They are buying stocks and the euro like all Europe’s woes have disappeared.&#8221;<br />
Average deficit of EU governments: 6%. Defict of US government: 11.2%.</p>
<p>&#8220;So far for the freedom of contract in the European Union.&#8221;<br />
In the EU, like almost everywhere, contracts are subject to legal requirements. And laws can be changed.</p>
<p>And then, when creditors reduce the burden of a debtor, can or should this be called &#8220;default&#8221;? I don&#8217;t think so. Definition of default: &#8220;failure to fulfil an obligation, especially to repay a loan or appear in a law court&#8221; But Greece fulfills the obligations that have been altered by the creditors. That&#8217;s something different.</p>
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		<title>By: doctorjay317</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/21/greece-defaults/comment-page-1/#comment-28827</link>
		<dc:creator>doctorjay317</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 07:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9068#comment-28827</guid>
		<description>So in essence, if I understand what Felix is trying to tell me, it means all the so-called experts in the financial markets look like dummies. They are buying stocks and the euro like all Europe&#039;s woes have disappeared. In fact, it&#039;s starting to get worse. Just because Europe gave Greece &quot;a deal that won&#039;t be repeated&quot;. In reality, this is being done because there&#039;s no way out and the resultant consequence would be the &quot;PIIGS&quot; will get slaughtered. The world is changing to &quot;Alice in Wonderland&quot;. WELCOME ALL.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So in essence, if I understand what Felix is trying to tell me, it means all the so-called experts in the financial markets look like dummies. They are buying stocks and the euro like all Europe&#8217;s woes have disappeared. In fact, it&#8217;s starting to get worse. Just because Europe gave Greece &#8220;a deal that won&#8217;t be repeated&#8221;. In reality, this is being done because there&#8217;s no way out and the resultant consequence would be the &#8220;PIIGS&#8221; will get slaughtered. The world is changing to &#8220;Alice in Wonderland&#8221;. WELCOME ALL.</p>
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		<title>By: Pedro07</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/21/greece-defaults/comment-page-1/#comment-28826</link>
		<dc:creator>Pedro07</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 05:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9068#comment-28826</guid>
		<description>My Portuguese mother is still travelling way too much with her genereour public servant pension money...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My Portuguese mother is still travelling way too much with her genereour public servant pension money&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: IvoCerckel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/21/greece-defaults/comment-page-1/#comment-28825</link>
		<dc:creator>IvoCerckel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 05:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9068#comment-28825</guid>
		<description>&quot;The European Union will do four main things. First, it will extend the maturities on Greece’s debt [...]&quot;
So far for the freedom of contract in the European Union.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The European Union will do four main things. First, it will extend the maturities on Greece’s debt [...]&#8221;<br />
So far for the freedom of contract in the European Union.</p>
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		<title>By: Ralphooo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/21/greece-defaults/comment-page-1/#comment-28824</link>
		<dc:creator>Ralphooo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 04:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9068#comment-28824</guid>
		<description>It still amazes me that neither the US nor the EU has (so far) resorted to high levels of inflation to clear out overhanging debt. The global system, despite failures, has turned out to be surprisingly resilient. Somehow or other it keeps bouncing back.

Think what things would be like right now with a lot of inflation. It&#039;s not a pleasant thought, is it? Maybe we should just reserve about one second per day to be grateful for how well the basics have held together over the last 40+ years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It still amazes me that neither the US nor the EU has (so far) resorted to high levels of inflation to clear out overhanging debt. The global system, despite failures, has turned out to be surprisingly resilient. Somehow or other it keeps bouncing back.</p>
<p>Think what things would be like right now with a lot of inflation. It&#8217;s not a pleasant thought, is it? Maybe we should just reserve about one second per day to be grateful for how well the basics have held together over the last 40+ years.</p>
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		<title>By: MishGEA</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/21/greece-defaults/comment-page-1/#comment-28823</link>
		<dc:creator>MishGEA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 04:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9068#comment-28823</guid>
		<description>Excellent article Felix
I commented on it here:

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/07/greece-defaults-krugman-screams-its.html

Couple small typos in your post 

It&#039;s four choices, not three.

On[e] thing is for sure

Mish</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent article Felix<br />
I commented on it here:</p>
<p><a href='http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2011/07/greece-defaults-krugman-screams-its.html'>http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.c om/2011/07/greece-defaults-krugman-screa ms-its.html</a></p>
<p>Couple small typos in your post </p>
<p>It&#8217;s four choices, not three.</p>
<p>On[e] thing is for sure</p>
<p>Mish</p>
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		<title>By: BowMtnSpirit</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/07/21/greece-defaults/comment-page-1/#comment-28821</link>
		<dc:creator>BowMtnSpirit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jul 2011 03:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9068#comment-28821</guid>
		<description>Interesting report.  I could be wrong, but the way I read it, we will see two critical mistakes out of this plan (beyond extending Greece&#039;s misery and prolonging the inevitable total default).  One, the ECB will be printing new bills by the boatload.  Two, there will be a reduction of transparency, as the EU&#039;s antics have been exposed by the credit rating agencies beyond their comfort level.

The inflationary pressures generated by fiat money printing are going to drive down consumer spending even more radically, which means that Greece (along with the rest of the EU) cannot recover any level of real production to sustain this plan.  Recapitalization of the banks is just plain stupid.  They should have learned something from the U.S in that regard.  The banks need to eat their peas.

As for the credit rating agencies, the EU is sore because they are being called out by one of the few relatively honest institutions in the financial world today.  Those agencies got spanked first in the &#039;08 debacle, and they quickly compensated.  The agencies&#039; newfound forthrightness has become an embarrassing and debilitating brake on financial voodoo by the state financial institutions, and savvy private investors will price in the risk of insufficient data when they decide which bonds to buy.  Erecting a firewall against honest analysis will do nothing but deter foreign and private investment.  Or at least it should.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting report.  I could be wrong, but the way I read it, we will see two critical mistakes out of this plan (beyond extending Greece&#8217;s misery and prolonging the inevitable total default).  One, the ECB will be printing new bills by the boatload.  Two, there will be a reduction of transparency, as the EU&#8217;s antics have been exposed by the credit rating agencies beyond their comfort level.</p>
<p>The inflationary pressures generated by fiat money printing are going to drive down consumer spending even more radically, which means that Greece (along with the rest of the EU) cannot recover any level of real production to sustain this plan.  Recapitalization of the banks is just plain stupid.  They should have learned something from the U.S in that regard.  The banks need to eat their peas.</p>
<p>As for the credit rating agencies, the EU is sore because they are being called out by one of the few relatively honest institutions in the financial world today.  Those agencies got spanked first in the &#8217;08 debacle, and they quickly compensated.  The agencies&#8217; newfound forthrightness has become an embarrassing and debilitating brake on financial voodoo by the state financial institutions, and savvy private investors will price in the risk of insufficient data when they decide which bonds to buy.  Erecting a firewall against honest analysis will do nothing but deter foreign and private investment.  Or at least it should.</p>
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