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	<title>Comments on: The global crisis of institutional legitimacy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/22/the-global-crisis-of-institutional-legitimacy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/22/the-global-crisis-of-institutional-legitimacy/</link>
	<description>A slice of lime in the soda</description>
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		<title>By: ah89</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/22/the-global-crisis-of-institutional-legitimacy/comment-page-1/#comment-30774</link>
		<dc:creator>ah89</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Sep 2011 22:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9443#comment-30774</guid>
		<description>It is true that our overall attempt to &#039;better&quot; the economy has left us into debt. I do agree with you that this is a cycle in which we are just leading ourselves into bigger debt. I read an article on Europe in which Europe&#039;s government is trying to make a central financial authority sort of like the United States&#039;. It boggles my mind to think that they would want to create something similar to our government even though our government is pretty much &#039;failing&#039; us right now. But it also leads me to question that maybe our overall idea of government isn&#039;t bad, just our leaders making bad decisions.&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/06/business/global/reluctantly-europe-inches-closer-to-a-fiscal-union.html?src=un&amp;feedurl=http://json8.nytimes.com/pages/business/global/index.jsonp&amp;pagewanted=print&quot;&gt;The New York Times&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is true that our overall attempt to &#8216;better&#8221; the economy has left us into debt. I do agree with you that this is a cycle in which we are just leading ourselves into bigger debt. I read an article on Europe in which Europe&#8217;s government is trying to make a central financial authority sort of like the United States&#8217;. It boggles my mind to think that they would want to create something similar to our government even though our government is pretty much &#8216;failing&#8217; us right now. But it also leads me to question that maybe our overall idea of government isn&#8217;t bad, just our leaders making bad decisions.The New York Times</p>
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		<title>By: selectricity</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/22/the-global-crisis-of-institutional-legitimacy/comment-page-1/#comment-29967</link>
		<dc:creator>selectricity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2011 20:03:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9443#comment-29967</guid>
		<description>As others have pointed out many times, our focus is off, our understanding is off, our trust is misplaced, etc. Magnus was just on Benzinga Radio discussing his piece (The Convulsions of Political Economy). There is a link to the audio here: http://www.benzinga.com/content/1878091/george-magnus-of-ubs-on-the-great-de-leveraging</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As others have pointed out many times, our focus is off, our understanding is off, our trust is misplaced, etc. Magnus was just on Benzinga Radio discussing his piece (The Convulsions of Political Economy). There is a link to the audio here: <a href='http://www.benzinga.com/content/1878091/george-magnus-of-ubs-on-the-great-de-leveraging'>http://www.benzinga.com/content/1878091/ george-magnus-of-ubs-on-the-great-de-lev eraging</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dafydd</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/22/the-global-crisis-of-institutional-legitimacy/comment-page-1/#comment-29928</link>
		<dc:creator>Dafydd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2011 09:24:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9443#comment-29928</guid>
		<description>This was a great post.

I blame the net for most of it. The more we know about government, the less we trust it. That makes perfect sense.

Electronic connectivity has brought about a change in human society easily as great as the telegraph and railway of the 19th century combined.

The veil that shielded our elites, even in western democracies, has been lifted.

That is bound to lead to massive upheaval. The more you look at it, the more is looks like the 1930s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was a great post.</p>
<p>I blame the net for most of it. The more we know about government, the less we trust it. That makes perfect sense.</p>
<p>Electronic connectivity has brought about a change in human society easily as great as the telegraph and railway of the 19th century combined.</p>
<p>The veil that shielded our elites, even in western democracies, has been lifted.</p>
<p>That is bound to lead to massive upheaval. The more you look at it, the more is looks like the 1930s.</p>
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		<title>By: Eastvillagechic</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/22/the-global-crisis-of-institutional-legitimacy/comment-page-1/#comment-29915</link>
		<dc:creator>Eastvillagechic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Aug 2011 03:39:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9443#comment-29915</guid>
		<description>Wait until the poor Libyans discover they have only exchanged a relatively easy medieval lord for a much harder to remove much more efficient corporate lordship.... your thesis implies they have gone from the pot into the fire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait until the poor Libyans discover they have only exchanged a relatively easy medieval lord for a much harder to remove much more efficient corporate lordship&#8230;. your thesis implies they have gone from the pot into the fire.</p>
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		<title>By: Curmudgeon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/22/the-global-crisis-of-institutional-legitimacy/comment-page-1/#comment-29905</link>
		<dc:creator>Curmudgeon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 22:54:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9443#comment-29905</guid>
		<description>This was really good.  There&#039;s just one problem - you haven&#039;t convinced me that our view of institutional legitimacy hasn&#039;t been the same or worse at times in the last 50 years (not, of course, that you&#039;re required to convince me of anything).  In that time, we&#039;ve experienced race riots in the US in the 1960s, war protests leading up to the killing of college students by the national guard in the 1970s, extreme labor violence in the UK in the 70s, and the fall of communism in the Soviet Union in the 1990s, just to name a few.  There are many more equally dramatic examples of people running up against established institutions.

It&#039;s not clear to me that this is any worse than any of that.  It may simply be a part of civilization figuring out what it wants to be when it grows up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This was really good.  There&#8217;s just one problem &#8211; you haven&#8217;t convinced me that our view of institutional legitimacy hasn&#8217;t been the same or worse at times in the last 50 years (not, of course, that you&#8217;re required to convince me of anything).  In that time, we&#8217;ve experienced race riots in the US in the 1960s, war protests leading up to the killing of college students by the national guard in the 1970s, extreme labor violence in the UK in the 70s, and the fall of communism in the Soviet Union in the 1990s, just to name a few.  There are many more equally dramatic examples of people running up against established institutions.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not clear to me that this is any worse than any of that.  It may simply be a part of civilization figuring out what it wants to be when it grows up.</p>
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		<title>By: BrunoBehrend</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/22/the-global-crisis-of-institutional-legitimacy/comment-page-1/#comment-29901</link>
		<dc:creator>BrunoBehrend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 20:23:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9443#comment-29901</guid>
		<description>Some of the critiques above are cogent, but the fact is that  this article is mostly correct.

My take on the situation is the that elites on both sides of the political spectrum, and in the business community have failed.  They have gamed things in their favor, and the citizenry (again, on both sides of the spectrum) is reacting to these failures.

We know that capitalism works, and we know that it produces enough wealth to create workable &quot;safety nets.&quot;  What no system can do, is pay for both a corrupt and greedy set of elites (Big Union, Big Biz, Big Gov) AND a safety net.

It&#039;s time to toss failed institutions like political parties, ruling elites, worthless education and banking bureaucracies, and the &quot;controlled chaos&quot; of the bureaucratic regulatory state.

These institutions DESERVE to have lost the trust of the people. What is needed now is NOT a new trust in newer, better institutions, but a renewed trust in our ability to govern ourselves.

If you can&#039;t govern yourself, you WILL be governed by someone, and probably very poorly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of the critiques above are cogent, but the fact is that  this article is mostly correct.</p>
<p>My take on the situation is the that elites on both sides of the political spectrum, and in the business community have failed.  They have gamed things in their favor, and the citizenry (again, on both sides of the spectrum) is reacting to these failures.</p>
<p>We know that capitalism works, and we know that it produces enough wealth to create workable &#8220;safety nets.&#8221;  What no system can do, is pay for both a corrupt and greedy set of elites (Big Union, Big Biz, Big Gov) AND a safety net.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s time to toss failed institutions like political parties, ruling elites, worthless education and banking bureaucracies, and the &#8220;controlled chaos&#8221; of the bureaucratic regulatory state.</p>
<p>These institutions DESERVE to have lost the trust of the people. What is needed now is NOT a new trust in newer, better institutions, but a renewed trust in our ability to govern ourselves.</p>
<p>If you can&#8217;t govern yourself, you WILL be governed by someone, and probably very poorly.</p>
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		<title>By: soolebop</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/22/the-global-crisis-of-institutional-legitimacy/comment-page-1/#comment-29885</link>
		<dc:creator>soolebop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 16:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9443#comment-29885</guid>
		<description>with so many ppl @ the bottom for so long and the natural recycling of wealth being artificially held off for so long it&#039;s no wonder the cracks in western society are so large now.. When I say recycling of wealth I don&#039;t mean redistributed, I mean that when the crashes happen if they were allowed to happen the ppl @ the top who made mistakes would have fallen &amp; they would have opened opportunities for ppl on the bottom to rise up, this hasn&#039;t been allowed to happen so ppl @ the top are infected with moral hazard to the 10th power and ppl @ the bottom see no way up for the most part, so what you see is only nature taking it&#039;s long overdue course. If your @ the top not by your wit &amp; hard work but by federal prop, nepotism or social favor then you are coming down. If your @ the bottom by no fault of your own and prepared &amp; still preparing the you will rise when the opportunity presents itself.... It&#039;s the ultimate paradigm shift..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>with so many ppl @ the bottom for so long and the natural recycling of wealth being artificially held off for so long it&#8217;s no wonder the cracks in western society are so large now.. When I say recycling of wealth I don&#8217;t mean redistributed, I mean that when the crashes happen if they were allowed to happen the ppl @ the top who made mistakes would have fallen &#038; they would have opened opportunities for ppl on the bottom to rise up, this hasn&#8217;t been allowed to happen so ppl @ the top are infected with moral hazard to the 10th power and ppl @ the bottom see no way up for the most part, so what you see is only nature taking it&#8217;s long overdue course. If your @ the top not by your wit &#038; hard work but by federal prop, nepotism or social favor then you are coming down. If your @ the bottom by no fault of your own and prepared &#038; still preparing the you will rise when the opportunity presents itself&#8230;. It&#8217;s the ultimate paradigm shift..</p>
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		<title>By: wpw</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/22/the-global-crisis-of-institutional-legitimacy/comment-page-1/#comment-29876</link>
		<dc:creator>wpw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 14:28:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9443#comment-29876</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t agree with all the details but I agree with the general theme of a decline in confidence in institutions.  I think there is an alternative strategy for those of us who do not believe the continuing rule of the current oligarchy is sustainable or desirable, and do not believe the Austerians have the solution (or have a cure worse than the disease).   That is to create new institutions, along a more cooperative model, to provide some economic security, social cohesion and perhaps political influence.  Credit unions are the most obvious example but the potential and the need is much greater.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t agree with all the details but I agree with the general theme of a decline in confidence in institutions.  I think there is an alternative strategy for those of us who do not believe the continuing rule of the current oligarchy is sustainable or desirable, and do not believe the Austerians have the solution (or have a cure worse than the disease).   That is to create new institutions, along a more cooperative model, to provide some economic security, social cohesion and perhaps political influence.  Credit unions are the most obvious example but the potential and the need is much greater.</p>
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		<title>By: frobn</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/22/the-global-crisis-of-institutional-legitimacy/comment-page-1/#comment-29875</link>
		<dc:creator>frobn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 13:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9443#comment-29875</guid>
		<description>When I read your posts I get the impression that you are a fan boy for BAU. Our economic system has already collapsed only zombies are still standing. Its time to move on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I read your posts I get the impression that you are a fan boy for BAU. Our economic system has already collapsed only zombies are still standing. Its time to move on.</p>
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		<title>By: MaxUtil</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/22/the-global-crisis-of-institutional-legitimacy/comment-page-1/#comment-29871</link>
		<dc:creator>MaxUtil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 10:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9443#comment-29871</guid>
		<description>Well said. Though I think there are a few nations that would dispute the description of the US as &quot;a continent unto itself&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said. Though I think there are a few nations that would dispute the description of the US as &#8220;a continent unto itself&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: tanetahi</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/22/the-global-crisis-of-institutional-legitimacy/comment-page-1/#comment-29869</link>
		<dc:creator>tanetahi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9443#comment-29869</guid>
		<description>&quot;when I look at rioters in England, I see a huge middle finger being waved at basic norms of lawfulness and civilized society, and an enthusiastic embrace of “going on the rob” as some kind of hugely enjoyable participation sport. The glue holding society together is dissolving, whether it’s made of fear or whether it’s made of enlightened self-interest.&quot;

I think two issues intertwined resulted in the British rioting. One is the progressive evaporation over the past 40 years of parental and societal mentoring of, and control over, the activities of youth, who accordingly follow human nature when unconstrained in this way, and behave as a pack, leading each other on. 

The other issue is that probably unconsciously, many who lack formal qualifications and a foot in the door to the white collar world know that they are being written out of the story, economically and politically. As Marx predicted, we are witnessing an inexorable long term shift of wealth-creation capacity in capitalist societies away from labour and more towards capital itself.  That coupled with the progression towards a knowledge-based economy means those not employable in the white collar world are merely superfluous. And since they don&#039;t constitute a numerical majority (unlike in Marx&#039;s era) they are politically powerless too. So what have they, the Excluded, got to lose? What reason have they got to behave themselves at all times, purely for the convenience of the successful and upwardly mobile they see all around them, and whose ranks they will never join anyway ? Every so often words like inclusivity get bandied about by left-leaning political leaders, but in cold reality all governments of all political persuasions have been just so much flotsam, passively swept round in circles towards the plug-hole of wealth and capital concentration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;when I look at rioters in England, I see a huge middle finger being waved at basic norms of lawfulness and civilized society, and an enthusiastic embrace of “going on the rob” as some kind of hugely enjoyable participation sport. The glue holding society together is dissolving, whether it’s made of fear or whether it’s made of enlightened self-interest.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think two issues intertwined resulted in the British rioting. One is the progressive evaporation over the past 40 years of parental and societal mentoring of, and control over, the activities of youth, who accordingly follow human nature when unconstrained in this way, and behave as a pack, leading each other on. </p>
<p>The other issue is that probably unconsciously, many who lack formal qualifications and a foot in the door to the white collar world know that they are being written out of the story, economically and politically. As Marx predicted, we are witnessing an inexorable long term shift of wealth-creation capacity in capitalist societies away from labour and more towards capital itself.  That coupled with the progression towards a knowledge-based economy means those not employable in the white collar world are merely superfluous. And since they don&#8217;t constitute a numerical majority (unlike in Marx&#8217;s era) they are politically powerless too. So what have they, the Excluded, got to lose? What reason have they got to behave themselves at all times, purely for the convenience of the successful and upwardly mobile they see all around them, and whose ranks they will never join anyway ? Every so often words like inclusivity get bandied about by left-leaning political leaders, but in cold reality all governments of all political persuasions have been just so much flotsam, passively swept round in circles towards the plug-hole of wealth and capital concentration.</p>
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		<title>By: John_Hempton</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/22/the-global-crisis-of-institutional-legitimacy/comment-page-1/#comment-29867</link>
		<dc:creator>John_Hempton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 08:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9443#comment-29867</guid>
		<description>Brutal. Maybe not inaccurate but brutal.

J</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brutal. Maybe not inaccurate but brutal.</p>
<p>J</p>
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		<title>By: hansrudolf</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/22/the-global-crisis-of-institutional-legitimacy/comment-page-1/#comment-29866</link>
		<dc:creator>hansrudolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 06:48:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9443#comment-29866</guid>
		<description>“what I’m seeing as I look around the world”   I’d say it’s a bit early in your career for this far reaching post. Just have a look at your tag cloud.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>“what I’m seeing as I look around the world”   I’d say it’s a bit early in your career for this far reaching post. Just have a look at your tag cloud.</p>
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		<title>By: petra1836</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/22/the-global-crisis-of-institutional-legitimacy/comment-page-1/#comment-29863</link>
		<dc:creator>petra1836</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 04:46:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9443#comment-29863</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure if Pew has done recent polling but back in in April 2010, people had highest distrust/discontent for banks and financial institutions with corporations and media not far behind. I can only imagine that public distrust of corporations/banking is even higher now. Interestingly, most of the media at that time mainly focused on people&#039;s distrust for govts... 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1569/trust-in-government-distrust-discontent-anger-partisan-rancor&quot;&gt;http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1569/trust-in-government-distrust-discontent-anger-partisan-rancor&lt;/a&gt;)

Public negative view of institutions (effect on way things are going in the country):
Banks &amp; financial institutions: 69% Negative
Congress: 65% negative
Federal Govt: 65% negative
Large corporations: 64% negative
National news media: 57% negative</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure if Pew has done recent polling but back in in April 2010, people had highest distrust/discontent for banks and financial institutions with corporations and media not far behind. I can only imagine that public distrust of corporations/banking is even higher now. Interestingly, most of the media at that time mainly focused on people&#8217;s distrust for govts&#8230; </p>
<p><a href='http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1569/trust-in-government-distrust-discontent-anger-partisan-rancor)'>http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1569/trust-i n-government-distrust-discontent-anger-p artisan-rancor)</a></p>
<p>Public negative view of institutions (effect on way things are going in the country):<br />
Banks &#038; financial institutions: 69% Negative<br />
Congress: 65% negative<br />
Federal Govt: 65% negative<br />
Large corporations: 64% negative<br />
National news media: 57% negative</p>
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		<title>By: aka_ces</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/22/the-global-crisis-of-institutional-legitimacy/comment-page-1/#comment-29862</link>
		<dc:creator>aka_ces</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2011 04:44:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9443#comment-29862</guid>
		<description>correction to last sentence: &quot;... and whose social views are arguably no *more* problematic than those of Bachman</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>correction to last sentence: &#8220;&#8230; and whose social views are arguably no *more* problematic than those of Bachman</p>
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