Comments on: How to get $12 billion of gold to Venezuela http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/23/how-to-get-12-billion-of-gold-to-venezuela/ A slice of lime in the soda Sat, 25 May 2013 00:03:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: rsksquare http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/23/how-to-get-12-billion-of-gold-to-venezuela/comment-page-2/#comment-45628 rsksquare Wed, 23 Jan 2013 12:00:44 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9505#comment-45628 What is the big deal anyway ? India imports nearly 800-1000 tons of physical gold every year and China is close to that number. All this gold is used for jewelry and hence actually travels every year. Obviously, commercial modes are well established to transport physical gold in hundreds or even thousands of tons a year. What is the big deal anyway ? India imports nearly 800-1000 tons of physical gold every year and China is close to that number. All this gold is used for jewelry and hence actually travels every year. Obviously, commercial modes are well established to transport physical gold in hundreds or even thousands of tons a year.

]]> By: cphilips123 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/23/how-to-get-12-billion-of-gold-to-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-30951 cphilips123 Thu, 15 Sep 2011 22:44:58 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9505#comment-30951 Hey, emk: Lighten up, dude. Maybe the stiffs at the Financial Times treat Chavez like a Diplomat- he's just a tinpot dictator to the rest of the world. Let's all not lose sight of the fact that 211 tons of cargo is a drop in the bucket as far as weight goes- that's six containers, give or take. Transport isn't a problem. the problem is giving a crackpot like Chavez access to that much ready cash. I can just see it now: A hangar with a different colored Gulfstream for every day of the week, a set of Givenchy silk pajamas with little Che Guevara heads all over them, and the mini giraffe from his Russian friend. He'd be so busy spending all that gold he wouldn't have time to jack with the South American economy- sounds like a win to me! Hey, emk: Lighten up, dude. Maybe the stiffs at the Financial Times treat Chavez like a Diplomat- he’s just a tinpot dictator to the rest of the world.
Let’s all not lose sight of the fact that 211 tons of cargo is a drop in the bucket as far as weight goes- that’s six containers, give or take. Transport isn’t a problem. the problem is giving a crackpot like Chavez access to that much ready cash.
I can just see it now: A hangar with a different colored Gulfstream for every day of the week, a set of Givenchy silk pajamas with little Che Guevara heads all over them, and the mini giraffe from his Russian friend. He’d be so busy spending all that gold he wouldn’t have time to jack with the South American economy- sounds like a win to me!

]]> By: JamesMMoore http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/23/how-to-get-12-billion-of-gold-to-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-30438 JamesMMoore Fri, 02 Sep 2011 03:39:52 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9505#comment-30438 Check out this _almost completely unrelated_ but still very cool video of a couple guys pushing around a 200 ton ship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwsxe_rUfsw . 200 tons, whatever, dude :-). Check out this _almost completely unrelated_ but still very cool video of a couple guys pushing around a 200 ton ship: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lwsxe_rUf sw . 200 tons, whatever, dude :-).

]]> By: JamesMMoore http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/23/how-to-get-12-billion-of-gold-to-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-30437 JamesMMoore Fri, 02 Sep 2011 03:17:03 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9505#comment-30437 My grandfather served on the heavy cruiser USS Vincennes before and during WWII. One of their missions (right before the US entered the war) was to help rescue 200 tons of Bank of France gold from the Nazis - see http://books.google.com/books?id=1EV4r9PlB8IC&pg=PA24&lpg=PA24&dq=vincennes+french+gold+cruisers&source=bl&ots=OroY4_Evsr&sig=cvYFW3pxtl8n25sUI6Sg1HGU6qY&hl=en&ei=5EVgTofrG-vViAL6nb2mDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&sqi=2&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=vincennes%20french%20gold%20cruisers&f=false My grandfather served on the heavy cruiser USS Vincennes before and during WWII. One of their missions (right before the US entered the war) was to help rescue 200 tons of Bank of France gold from the Nazis – see http://books.google.com/books?id=1EV4r9P lB8IC&pg=PA24&lpg=PA24&dq=vincennes+fren ch+gold+cruisers&source=bl&ots=OroY4_Evs r&sig=cvYFW3pxtl8n25sUI6Sg1HGU6qY&hl=en& ei=5EVgTofrG-vViAL6nb2mDg&sa=X&oi=book_r esult&ct=result&resnum=7&sqi=2&ved=0CEwQ 6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=vincennes%20french%20 gold%20cruisers&f=false

]]> By: Junkman http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/23/how-to-get-12-billion-of-gold-to-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-30369 Junkman Wed, 31 Aug 2011 22:47:33 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9505#comment-30369 A handful of a few malnurished Somalia teenager pirates will have any ship delivered to Mogadishu. A handful of a few malnurished Somalia teenager pirates will have any ship delivered to Mogadishu.

]]> By: ChuckV http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/23/how-to-get-12-billion-of-gold-to-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-30228 ChuckV Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:43:07 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9505#comment-30228 Related: "Presidente Francisco Franco is still dead" Related: “Presidente Francisco Franco is still dead”

]]> By: emk http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/23/how-to-get-12-billion-of-gold-to-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-30140 emk Fri, 26 Aug 2011 19:33:29 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9505#comment-30140 This article lowers the average quality level of Reuters content considerably. One would expect this kind of article from a spokesperson for the US or UK governments not a Reuters blogger. Aside from heavily pumping the western propaganda line re Venezuela i.e - inserting quotes that suggest the Venezuelan Central bank does not know what its doing. - calling Chavez crazy - imputing the existence of dangerous criminal elements in the Venezuelan government. - suggesting the Venezuelan navy can not be trusted to transport the gold - calling this "gesture politics" - reducing the whole issue to something Chavez is doing instead of an action of the Venezuelan government. -All this intended to denigrate Chavez and the Venezuelans. To make them look foolish, clueless etc. Aside from all this service to the party line, the author proposes a solution which makes no sense. If Venezuela can't find an insurer for the gold transports how would the counter party on the repo do so? After all they would also need to do multiple shipments and those criminal elements in the Venezuelan govt would need to know when the gold is coming in anyway. They would face the same risks without the benefit of a navy of their own. Poor solution. Obviously Venezuela can just put this on a navy ship with an escort and sail direct to Venezuela. After all if they can't secure their gold on a navy ship, how can they secure it in Venezuela? How does the bank of England secure the gold anyway? Or do they not have any criminal elements in that government? And then there is the "gesture politics" cheapshot. How is Venezuela taking their gold out of the vaults of a hostile country and storing it themselves "gesture politics"? There are umpteen examples of western countries freezing the assets of countries whose policies they don't like. And handing them over to rebels! Venezuela is a prime candidate for that. I'd say its a pretty wise move! emk This article lowers the average quality level of Reuters content considerably. One would expect this kind of article from a spokesperson for the US or UK governments not a Reuters blogger.

Aside from heavily pumping the western propaganda line re Venezuela i.e
- inserting quotes that suggest the Venezuelan Central bank does not know what its doing.
- calling Chavez crazy
- imputing the existence of dangerous criminal elements in the Venezuelan government.
- suggesting the Venezuelan navy can not be trusted to transport the gold
- calling this “gesture politics”
- reducing the whole issue to something Chavez is doing instead of an action of the Venezuelan government.
-All this intended to denigrate Chavez and the Venezuelans. To make them look foolish, clueless etc.

Aside from all this service to the party line, the author proposes a solution which makes no sense. If Venezuela can’t find an insurer for the gold transports how would the counter party on the repo do so? After all they would also need to do multiple shipments and those criminal elements in the Venezuelan govt would need to know when the gold is coming in anyway. They would face the same risks without the benefit of a navy of their own. Poor solution.

Obviously Venezuela can just put this on a navy ship with an escort and sail direct to Venezuela. After all if they can’t secure their gold on a navy ship, how can they secure it in Venezuela?

How does the bank of England secure the gold anyway? Or do they not have any criminal elements in that government?

And then there is the “gesture politics” cheapshot. How is Venezuela taking their gold out of the vaults of a hostile country and storing it themselves “gesture politics”?

There are umpteen examples of western countries freezing the assets of countries whose policies they don’t like. And handing them over to rebels! Venezuela is a prime candidate for that.

I’d say its a pretty wise move!

emk

]]> By: Independent007 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/23/how-to-get-12-billion-of-gold-to-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-30128 Independent007 Fri, 26 Aug 2011 15:10:16 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9505#comment-30128 By the way Felix, hats off again to an excellent article. If more at Reuters would simply inform us as to how the game is played at the HIGHEST LEVEL without the BS or sugarcoating or dumbing down of the article, you would have much more positive reviews and fewer negative ones. Us readers are not in junior high. Again great article. This was stuff I was wondering about for days, yet no one bothered to look it up and present it to the readers, except you of course. OK guys, I officially have stopped patronizing Felix. Now back to business... By the way Felix, hats off again to an excellent article. If more at Reuters would simply inform us as to how the game is played at the HIGHEST LEVEL without the BS or sugarcoating or dumbing down of the article, you would have much more positive reviews and fewer negative ones. Us readers are not in junior high. Again great article. This was stuff I was wondering about for days, yet no one bothered to look it up and present it to the readers, except you of course. OK guys, I officially have stopped patronizing Felix. Now back to business…

]]> By: Independent007 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/23/how-to-get-12-billion-of-gold-to-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-30127 Independent007 Fri, 26 Aug 2011 15:02:17 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9505#comment-30127 Yes, wasn't it someone in England that sold half of England's gold reserves for next to nothing? While it was at 300 or so? Anyway, the problem that people are forgetting about is the fact that any shipment of gold would HAVE to be insured. So all scenarios talking about a submarine attack, etc, are moot. I like the 767 or even 747/400 idea the best. It may take more trips, but it would be worth it and you would speed up the time frame for delivery and probably make more insurers rest at ease(the sinking boat torpedo theory actually sent chills up my spine, its possible). OR they just DELIVER gold FOB Caracas, and are only responsible for the gold once its tendered on Caracas soil. Just saying... Yes, wasn’t it someone in England that sold half of England’s gold reserves for next to nothing? While it was at 300 or so?

Anyway, the problem that people are forgetting about is the fact that any shipment of gold would HAVE to be insured. So all scenarios talking about a submarine attack, etc, are moot.

I like the 767 or even 747/400 idea the best. It may take more trips, but it would be worth it and you would speed up the time frame for delivery and probably make more insurers rest at ease(the sinking boat torpedo theory actually sent chills up my spine, its possible). OR they just DELIVER gold FOB Caracas, and are only responsible for the gold once its tendered on Caracas soil. Just saying…

]]> By: Rahere http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/23/how-to-get-12-billion-of-gold-to-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-30116 Rahere Fri, 26 Aug 2011 11:39:29 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9505#comment-30116 We're getting into economic loony tunes here. Scenario 1: gold continues to inflate. Argues the rest of the economy crashes. But if the world economy crashes, can he offload 211 tonnes of gold? Can he even deliver it? You need to double that freight cost, unless he wants to rival King Tut in his funeral bling. Scenario 2: the world economy stabilises. Bank of England buys it back at half the price, compounding Gordon's embarrassment. Scenario 3: we continue to drift mindlessly downwards. Even then, a long gold position at these levels seems adventurous. The risk with bubbles is they pop. Whether gold is a bubble or not time will tell. We’re getting into economic loony tunes here.

Scenario 1: gold continues to inflate. Argues the rest of the economy crashes. But if the world economy crashes, can he offload 211 tonnes of gold? Can he even deliver it? You need to double that freight cost, unless he wants to rival King Tut in his funeral bling.
Scenario 2: the world economy stabilises. Bank of England buys it back at half the price, compounding Gordon’s embarrassment.
Scenario 3: we continue to drift mindlessly downwards. Even then, a long gold position at these levels seems adventurous.
The risk with bubbles is they pop. Whether gold is a bubble or not time will tell.

]]> By: Independent007 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/23/how-to-get-12-billion-of-gold-to-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-30114 Independent007 Fri, 26 Aug 2011 10:36:20 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9505#comment-30114 One of the best articles on Reuters in weeks! Educational and very savvy. This author can grow on me... One of the best articles on Reuters in weeks! Educational and very savvy. This author can grow on me…

]]> By: Tadhog http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/23/how-to-get-12-billion-of-gold-to-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-30087 Tadhog Thu, 25 Aug 2011 22:46:52 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9505#comment-30087 exactly, Doc. If the gold goes missing in transport, everyone knows. If it goes missing from the central bank in Venezuela, nobody knows... exactly, Doc. If the gold goes missing in transport, everyone knows. If it goes missing from the central bank in Venezuela, nobody knows…

]]> By: DocMerlin http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/23/how-to-get-12-billion-of-gold-to-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-30002 DocMerlin Wed, 24 Aug 2011 17:18:18 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9505#comment-30002 Chavez can't steal the gold if its in England in an account owned by the Venezuelan government. On the other hand, he /can/ steal it, if he is put in charge of it. Chavez can’t steal the gold if its in England in an account owned by the Venezuelan government. On the other hand, he /can/ steal it, if he is put in charge of it.

]]> By: alexdg http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/23/how-to-get-12-billion-of-gold-to-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-29994 alexdg Wed, 24 Aug 2011 14:42:01 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9505#comment-29994 What kind of pirates are you talking about?! Are there pirates in the Atlantic that can attack a soverign navy and win!? You've been watching to many James Bond movies. Why would Hugo Chavez go for the repo?! That's almost as useless as having the gold held abroad. If he's afraid that the global financial system will collapse or gold will sky rocket and the US and West just reneg on the hold leasings they have, the only way to go is to take hold of the physical Gold. No way around it. I'd send in the Venezuelan navy. They probably don't have anything better to do anyways. What kind of pirates are you talking about?! Are there pirates in the Atlantic that can attack a soverign navy and win!? You’ve been watching to many James Bond movies. Why would Hugo Chavez go for the repo?! That’s almost as useless as having the gold held abroad. If he’s afraid that the global financial system will collapse or gold will sky rocket and the US and West just reneg on the hold leasings they have, the only way to go is to take hold of the physical Gold. No way around it. I’d send in the Venezuelan navy. They probably don’t have anything better to do anyways.

]]> By: SteveBennett http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/08/23/how-to-get-12-billion-of-gold-to-venezuela/comment-page-1/#comment-29988 SteveBennett Wed, 24 Aug 2011 08:49:06 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=9505#comment-29988 Interesting that the $/kg of gold seems to cause such problems. If it was lower (eg, wheat), then you don't have such a target for robbery. If it was higher (eg, diamonds), then you can do the transfer in fewer shipments, reducing your transfer costs. Must be a nasty place on the curve. Still not sure you can just summon 200 tons of gold to appear in Caracas by "crowdsourcing". And the negative externalities could be quite horrific. Interesting that the $/kg of gold seems to cause such problems. If it was lower (eg, wheat), then you don’t have such a target for robbery. If it was higher (eg, diamonds), then you can do the transfer in fewer shipments, reducing your transfer costs. Must be a nasty place on the curve.

Still not sure you can just summon 200 tons of gold to appear in Caracas by “crowdsourcing”. And the negative externalities could be quite horrific.

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