<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
	xmlns:media="http://search.yahoo.com/mrss/"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Chart of the day, median income edition</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/10/chart-of-the-day-median-income-edition/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/10/chart-of-the-day-median-income-edition/</link>
	<description>A slice of lime in the soda</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 18 May 2013 23:43:55 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: djstreck</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/10/chart-of-the-day-median-income-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-42724</link>
		<dc:creator>djstreck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2012 21:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=10418#comment-42724</guid>
		<description>Regardless of the unemployment rate, when you look at the trend starting in Jan. 2000, the slope is only interrupted by the housing bubble (2006-2008). This generated an increase in income; all the builders, real estate agents, bankers, and house flippers.  When that burst, we went right back to where we would have been.  I don&#039;t see a definite correlation between the two pieces of data.  It&#039;s like saying, &quot;when ice cream sales go up, there are more shark attacks&quot;.  Maybe there is another piece of data that ties to two together - like it&#039;s a hot summer so people go swimming and eat ice cream.  I would like to see a chart of the household income index for 1982 to present to get an idea on how well trickle down economics has worked.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regardless of the unemployment rate, when you look at the trend starting in Jan. 2000, the slope is only interrupted by the housing bubble (2006-2008). This generated an increase in income; all the builders, real estate agents, bankers, and house flippers.  When that burst, we went right back to where we would have been.  I don&#8217;t see a definite correlation between the two pieces of data.  It&#8217;s like saying, &#8220;when ice cream sales go up, there are more shark attacks&#8221;.  Maybe there is another piece of data that ties to two together &#8211; like it&#8217;s a hot summer so people go swimming and eat ice cream.  I would like to see a chart of the household income index for 1982 to present to get an idea on how well trickle down economics has worked.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: jlbriggs</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/10/chart-of-the-day-median-income-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-31775</link>
		<dc:creator>jlbriggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Oct 2011 13:51:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=10418#comment-31775</guid>
		<description>As has been mentioned, the crossing of the lines is a completely false and misleading fabrication based on the axis scaling.

For this data to be represented meaningfully would require either 1) two charts on which each data set is plotted with no interaction between the two or 2) one chart with a common axis, displaying something like the % deviation from the start point.

This chart is a rather unnecessary distortion of data.  I am certain that the message in the data is interesting, but we can&#039;t see it clearly with this chart.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As has been mentioned, the crossing of the lines is a completely false and misleading fabrication based on the axis scaling.</p>
<p>For this data to be represented meaningfully would require either 1) two charts on which each data set is plotted with no interaction between the two or 2) one chart with a common axis, displaying something like the % deviation from the start point.</p>
<p>This chart is a rather unnecessary distortion of data.  I am certain that the message in the data is interesting, but we can&#8217;t see it clearly with this chart.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Finster</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/10/chart-of-the-day-median-income-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-31702</link>
		<dc:creator>Finster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Oct 2011 11:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=10418#comment-31702</guid>
		<description>The cross is purely dependant on the scaling choice on the left and right axis. No information to be gained from that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The cross is purely dependant on the scaling choice on the left and right axis. No information to be gained from that.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: netvet</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/10/chart-of-the-day-median-income-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-31697</link>
		<dc:creator>netvet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Oct 2011 05:39:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=10418#comment-31697</guid>
		<description>It is interesting to note that where these lines cross represents roughly the March &#039;09 market low. The correlation escapes me, if there is one. Any perspectives?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is interesting to note that where these lines cross represents roughly the March &#8217;09 market low. The correlation escapes me, if there is one. Any perspectives?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: y2kurtus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/10/chart-of-the-day-median-income-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-31693</link>
		<dc:creator>y2kurtus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Oct 2011 01:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=10418#comment-31693</guid>
		<description>This chart will continue on for the next 10 years in the same fashion. Rich western workers who earn 5 times the global mean wage will need to continually prove their worth to the multinational companies which employ them. These companies (Wal-mart, GE, and every other member of the Fortune 500) account for a larger and larger % of global GDP each year. 

What can a 25 year old American do for GE at $30,000/year that a better educated 25 year old South Korean won&#039;t do better for $20,000. 

I&#039;ve said it a dozen times and I&#039;ll say it a dozen more. Keep building up your skills and save and invest like crazy because this is as good as it gets for the rest of your life if you live in the rich west.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This chart will continue on for the next 10 years in the same fashion. Rich western workers who earn 5 times the global mean wage will need to continually prove their worth to the multinational companies which employ them. These companies (Wal-mart, GE, and every other member of the Fortune 500) account for a larger and larger % of global GDP each year. </p>
<p>What can a 25 year old American do for GE at $30,000/year that a better educated 25 year old South Korean won&#8217;t do better for $20,000. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve said it a dozen times and I&#8217;ll say it a dozen more. Keep building up your skills and save and invest like crazy because this is as good as it gets for the rest of your life if you live in the rich west.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TomMaguire</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/10/chart-of-the-day-median-income-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-31681</link>
		<dc:creator>TomMaguire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 21:18:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=10418#comment-31681</guid>
		<description>It may be worth bearing in mind that total compensation statistics, which include the employer&#039;s contribution to health insurance, have been rising even while take-home has been falling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It may be worth bearing in mind that total compensation statistics, which include the employer&#8217;s contribution to health insurance, have been rising even while take-home has been falling.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: GPEB</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/10/chart-of-the-day-median-income-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-31680</link>
		<dc:creator>GPEB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 20:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=10418#comment-31680</guid>
		<description>50 years ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPlcE3GcoFc 

now: 
not so much

(though I am not to optimistic that it looks better in much of europe. in particular, german inflation adjusted income went down quite a bit the last years, in an attempt to increase competitiveness of the german industry).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>50 years ago:<br />
<a href='http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPlcE3GcoFc'>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPlcE3Gco Fc</a> </p>
<p>now:<br />
not so much</p>
<p>(though I am not to optimistic that it looks better in much of europe. in particular, german inflation adjusted income went down quite a bit the last years, in an attempt to increase competitiveness of the german industry).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: peterschaeffer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/10/chart-of-the-day-median-income-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-31678</link>
		<dc:creator>peterschaeffer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 19:53:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=10418#comment-31678</guid>
		<description>I have three brilliant ideas about how to resolve this problem. My ideas are so good, they are actually the policies of the United States.
&lt;p&gt;
1. Let’s run a $600 billion a year trade deficit and throw away 5 million jobs. We don’t need them anyway. What’s 5 million jobs among friends? Of course, trade deficits also strongly predict subsequent economic crises. I guess admitting the “free” trade is a poisoned chalice is unthinkable among sensible people.
&lt;p&gt;
2. Let’s open our markets to China while China systematically hollows out the U.S. economy. China’s policies have brought vast miserly to the U.S. in recent years. A careful study “The China Syndrome: Local Labor Market Effects of Import Competition in the United States.⇤” found that China accounts for at least 1/4th of U.S. manufacturing job losses. Not a big problem living in D.C. presumably. Let Ohio rot.
&lt;p&gt;
3. Let’s import millions and millions of unskilled workers (and welfare recipients) even though we are creating zero new jobs over a ten year period and public finances are in disarray. Immigrants (legal and illegal) are literally replacing Americans on a staggering scale. I guess unemployed Americans should get a Ph.D. in molecular biology and stop complaining.
&lt;p&gt;
You see, solving America’s economic problems is so easy we are already doing it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have three brilliant ideas about how to resolve this problem. My ideas are so good, they are actually the policies of the United States.</p>
<p>
1. Let’s run a $600 billion a year trade deficit and throw away 5 million jobs. We don’t need them anyway. What’s 5 million jobs among friends? Of course, trade deficits also strongly predict subsequent economic crises. I guess admitting the “free” trade is a poisoned chalice is unthinkable among sensible people.
</p>
<p>
2. Let’s open our markets to China while China systematically hollows out the U.S. economy. China’s policies have brought vast miserly to the U.S. in recent years. A careful study “The China Syndrome: Local Labor Market Effects of Import Competition in the United States.⇤” found that China accounts for at least 1/4th of U.S. manufacturing job losses. Not a big problem living in D.C. presumably. Let Ohio rot.
</p>
<p>
3. Let’s import millions and millions of unskilled workers (and welfare recipients) even though we are creating zero new jobs over a ten year period and public finances are in disarray. Immigrants (legal and illegal) are literally replacing Americans on a staggering scale. I guess unemployed Americans should get a Ph.D. in molecular biology and stop complaining.
</p>
<p>
You see, solving America’s economic problems is so easy we are already doing it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TFF</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/10/chart-of-the-day-median-income-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-31677</link>
		<dc:creator>TFF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 19:52:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=10418#comment-31677</guid>
		<description>Oops -- I got that backwards.

Maybe kids were moving in with parents for 2008-2009 but are now moving out again?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops &#8212; I got that backwards.</p>
<p>Maybe kids were moving in with parents for 2008-2009 but are now moving out again?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TFF</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/10/chart-of-the-day-median-income-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-31676</link>
		<dc:creator>TFF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 19:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=10418#comment-31676</guid>
		<description>&quot;suggests composition of households is changing&quot;

Supported by anecdotal data as well... Young adults aren&#039;t moving out (or are moving back with parents). May be changing in other ways as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;suggests composition of households is changing&#8221;</p>
<p>Supported by anecdotal data as well&#8230; Young adults aren&#8217;t moving out (or are moving back with parents). May be changing in other ways as well.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: adamoneill933</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/10/chart-of-the-day-median-income-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-31673</link>
		<dc:creator>adamoneill933</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 19:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=10418#comment-31673</guid>
		<description>well its not apples to apples because households change over time--if the response of a 25 year old to losing his job is to move into his parent&#039;s place, then that eliminates a low-income household from the data and makes household income rise...  it&#039;s strange that the income of the median man fell most in 2008 and 2009 and income of the median woman fell most in 2008 and 2009, and income of the median married-couple family with kids fell most in 2008 and 2009, but then household income fell most in 2010 and 2011...suggests composition of households is changing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well its not apples to apples because households change over time&#8211;if the response of a 25 year old to losing his job is to move into his parent&#8217;s place, then that eliminates a low-income household from the data and makes household income rise&#8230;  it&#8217;s strange that the income of the median man fell most in 2008 and 2009 and income of the median woman fell most in 2008 and 2009, and income of the median married-couple family with kids fell most in 2008 and 2009, but then household income fell most in 2010 and 2011&#8230;suggests composition of households is changing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TFF</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/10/chart-of-the-day-median-income-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-31669</link>
		<dc:creator>TFF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 18:28:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=10418#comment-31669</guid>
		<description>klhoughton, if a member of a lower-income household loses their job, it does not affect the MEDIAN at all. The median only drops if some of those who were previously ABOVE the median earn less.

Neither the median nor the mean is a complete representation of a distribution. If the distribution is normal, then the two will be the same. If it is heavily skew, as income tends to be, then the median will be significantly lower than the mean. But neither observation is sufficient to explain what is happening here.

Anybody have the data to plot and compare the distribution before and after?

I&#039;ll note, also, that the median income was more or less constant through ~2009. The 10% drop has all been recognized in the past two years -- and shows no sign of slowing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>klhoughton, if a member of a lower-income household loses their job, it does not affect the MEDIAN at all. The median only drops if some of those who were previously ABOVE the median earn less.</p>
<p>Neither the median nor the mean is a complete representation of a distribution. If the distribution is normal, then the two will be the same. If it is heavily skew, as income tends to be, then the median will be significantly lower than the mean. But neither observation is sufficient to explain what is happening here.</p>
<p>Anybody have the data to plot and compare the distribution before and after?</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll note, also, that the median income was more or less constant through ~2009. The 10% drop has all been recognized in the past two years &#8212; and shows no sign of slowing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: klhoughton</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/10/chart-of-the-day-median-income-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-31666</link>
		<dc:creator>klhoughton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 16:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=10418#comment-31666</guid>
		<description>Median income goes up during the recession as the lower-paid (note I do not say &quot;skilled&quot;) workers lose their jobs while the Senior Execs keep theirs (and/or receive higher wages).

Notably, the recovery from the Bush recession (which was worse for employment from a private-sector-recovery perspective than the current one) shows median income rising for a while until the private sector recovers. (The number of people employed in the Private Sector at the beginning of the 2001 recession is only reached again--absolute number, not as percent of workers--in May of 2005.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Median income goes up during the recession as the lower-paid (note I do not say &#8220;skilled&#8221;) workers lose their jobs while the Senior Execs keep theirs (and/or receive higher wages).</p>
<p>Notably, the recovery from the Bush recession (which was worse for employment from a private-sector-recovery perspective than the current one) shows median income rising for a while until the private sector recovers. (The number of people employed in the Private Sector at the beginning of the 2001 recession is only reached again&#8211;absolute number, not as percent of workers&#8211;in May of 2005.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: finn0123</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/10/chart-of-the-day-median-income-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-31664</link>
		<dc:creator>finn0123</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 15:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=10418#comment-31664</guid>
		<description>A big piece missed here is the role of inflation.  By this chart, income went up in the recession (because of disinflation) and then dropped from 2009 to now because prices moved higher (even though prices are still lower than pre-recession).  Thus, income, which have moved higher since the recession (but not by much) shows a real big drop because of the yo-yoing in prices.  As prices come down now we&#039;ll see the opposite, but unemployment will still be high.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A big piece missed here is the role of inflation.  By this chart, income went up in the recession (because of disinflation) and then dropped from 2009 to now because prices moved higher (even though prices are still lower than pre-recession).  Thus, income, which have moved higher since the recession (but not by much) shows a real big drop because of the yo-yoing in prices.  As prices come down now we&#8217;ll see the opposite, but unemployment will still be high.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: djiddish98</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/10/10/chart-of-the-day-median-income-edition/comment-page-1/#comment-31663</link>
		<dc:creator>djiddish98</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 14:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=10418#comment-31663</guid>
		<description>Nevermind, U6 largely mimicking headline unemployment

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=2FL</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nevermind, U6 largely mimicking headline unemployment</p>
<p><a href='http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph.png?g=2FL'>http://research.stlouisfed.org/fredgraph .png?g=2FL</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
