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	<title>Comments on: Jed Rakoff&#8217;s fraught decision</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/28/jed-rakoffs-fraught-decision/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/28/jed-rakoffs-fraught-decision/</link>
	<description>A slice of lime in the soda</description>
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		<title>By: FinanceChicken</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/28/jed-rakoffs-fraught-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-33824</link>
		<dc:creator>FinanceChicken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Dec 2011 22:08:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=11278#comment-33824</guid>
		<description>The way I see Judge Rekoff&#039;s argument, it seems the critical point is Citi&#039;s lack of admission of guilt... and the fact that SEC &#039;no guilt&#039; settlements are standard.  Yes he has &#039;painted himself in a corner&#039; but I still applaud his action because the &#039;no guilt&#039; settlement issue might be the central reason that the financial industry has become such a den of fraud and criminality.  There have been billions, possibly trillions of settlements paid, but guilt is never admitted (and nobody goes to jail).
The fine amount matters little, an admission of guilt is critical.  SEC should be going after an admission of guilt because it would allow the rest of the legal system to work, it allows clients to get their money that was taken in the fraud (possibly even treble damages).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way I see Judge Rekoff&#8217;s argument, it seems the critical point is Citi&#8217;s lack of admission of guilt&#8230; and the fact that SEC &#8216;no guilt&#8217; settlements are standard.  Yes he has &#8216;painted himself in a corner&#8217; but I still applaud his action because the &#8216;no guilt&#8217; settlement issue might be the central reason that the financial industry has become such a den of fraud and criminality.  There have been billions, possibly trillions of settlements paid, but guilt is never admitted (and nobody goes to jail).<br />
The fine amount matters little, an admission of guilt is critical.  SEC should be going after an admission of guilt because it would allow the rest of the legal system to work, it allows clients to get their money that was taken in the fraud (possibly even treble damages).</p>
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		<title>By: Grinder74</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/28/jed-rakoffs-fraught-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-33627</link>
		<dc:creator>Grinder74</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 21:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Too bad these kinds of court opinions don&#039;t occur more often in the SEC&#039;s cases against small operators and individuals.  So Citi may double their penalty from 250mm to 500mm.  Big woop. They&#039;re still going to go on making billions in revenue.  I on the other hand was literally driven into bankruptcy over non-proved/non-admitted/non-denied allegations.  Wish I would have had a Judge Rakoff putting the SEC in their place instead of rubber-stamping everything they wanted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Too bad these kinds of court opinions don&#8217;t occur more often in the SEC&#8217;s cases against small operators and individuals.  So Citi may double their penalty from 250mm to 500mm.  Big woop. They&#8217;re still going to go on making billions in revenue.  I on the other hand was literally driven into bankruptcy over non-proved/non-admitted/non-denied allegations.  Wish I would have had a Judge Rakoff putting the SEC in their place instead of rubber-stamping everything they wanted.</p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/28/jed-rakoffs-fraught-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-33625</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 20:33:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The SEC asked for a $285 settlement? LoL, great freudian slip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The SEC asked for a $285 settlement? LoL, great freudian slip.</p>
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		<title>By: Danny_Black</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/28/jed-rakoffs-fraught-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-33551</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny_Black</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 17:13:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=11278#comment-33551</guid>
		<description>Sandrew, it factors through to chances of success in a jury trial surely?

Personally, i would have loved to see abacus go to trial, especially now Paulson is not the omnipotent god who shorted the housing market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sandrew, it factors through to chances of success in a jury trial surely?</p>
<p>Personally, i would have loved to see abacus go to trial, especially now Paulson is not the omnipotent god who shorted the housing market.</p>
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		<title>By: Sandrew</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/28/jed-rakoffs-fraught-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-33550</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=11278#comment-33550</guid>
		<description>hbw: I don&#039;t see how the presence or absence of public sympathy for aggrieved investors is or ought to be relevant to the Commission&#039;s settlement-litigation decisions. It&#039;s not out of concern for particular aggrieved investors that the public interest would be served by pursuing civil litigation against Citi.  Those private interests are served by the investors&#039; rights to pursue private civil actions.  The public has an interest in the truth--i.e. whether and if so how Citi violated securities law.  The SEC has for too long weighted this interest lightly, or as assumed that it is sufficiently served by non-admission settlements where the truth is merely implied to the extent money changes hands.  The least the SEC could do is give the public some insight into their enforcement decision calculus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hbw: I don&#8217;t see how the presence or absence of public sympathy for aggrieved investors is or ought to be relevant to the Commission&#8217;s settlement-litigation decisions. It&#8217;s not out of concern for particular aggrieved investors that the public interest would be served by pursuing civil litigation against Citi.  Those private interests are served by the investors&#8217; rights to pursue private civil actions.  The public has an interest in the truth&#8211;i.e. whether and if so how Citi violated securities law.  The SEC has for too long weighted this interest lightly, or as assumed that it is sufficiently served by non-admission settlements where the truth is merely implied to the extent money changes hands.  The least the SEC could do is give the public some insight into their enforcement decision calculus.</p>
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		<title>By: _hbw_</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/28/jed-rakoffs-fraught-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-33543</link>
		<dc:creator>_hbw_</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:33:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=11278#comment-33543</guid>
		<description>&quot;The party they are attempting to prosecute almost always has more lawyers and other legal resources to defend themselves with, and those lawyers are a lot higher paid than SEC lawyers as well. &quot;

The SEC almost always settles because they don&#039;t have the resources to prosecute *lots* of cases. But, the SEC is very capable of prosecuting a major case against a major bank, no matter how many white shoe lawyers that bank hires. Several reasons: (1) the law favors the SEC -- it has pre-litigation subpoena power, which means it can have a great case before it even files a complaint and it only has to prove negligence (private plaintiffs have neither advantage); (2) the SEC has very good lawyers -- it is still, for a young lawyer especially, very prestigious to work at the SEC; they attract excellent attorneys; (3) the SEC and the government in general receive a huge amount of deference from judges and juries; (4) the SEC may not be able to assign 30 lawyers to a case, but it has 70 years of institutional knowledge and experience and the entire DOJ behind it -- the resources of the federal government should never be underestimated.

If the SEC couldn&#039;t prosecute any cases, they would never  settle any cases. The ability to obtain good settlements is dependent upon a credible threat of trial.

That&#039;s one reason the SEC might actually do well to take a synthetic CDO case through trial -- it would help them up the value on future settlements.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The party they are attempting to prosecute almost always has more lawyers and other legal resources to defend themselves with, and those lawyers are a lot higher paid than SEC lawyers as well. &#8221;</p>
<p>The SEC almost always settles because they don&#8217;t have the resources to prosecute *lots* of cases. But, the SEC is very capable of prosecuting a major case against a major bank, no matter how many white shoe lawyers that bank hires. Several reasons: (1) the law favors the SEC &#8212; it has pre-litigation subpoena power, which means it can have a great case before it even files a complaint and it only has to prove negligence (private plaintiffs have neither advantage); (2) the SEC has very good lawyers &#8212; it is still, for a young lawyer especially, very prestigious to work at the SEC; they attract excellent attorneys; (3) the SEC and the government in general receive a huge amount of deference from judges and juries; (4) the SEC may not be able to assign 30 lawyers to a case, but it has 70 years of institutional knowledge and experience and the entire DOJ behind it &#8212; the resources of the federal government should never be underestimated.</p>
<p>If the SEC couldn&#8217;t prosecute any cases, they would never  settle any cases. The ability to obtain good settlements is dependent upon a credible threat of trial.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s one reason the SEC might actually do well to take a synthetic CDO case through trial &#8212; it would help them up the value on future settlements.</p>
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		<title>By: Danny_Black</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/28/jed-rakoffs-fraught-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-33541</link>
		<dc:creator>Danny_Black</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 16:24:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=11278#comment-33541</guid>
		<description>_hbw_, but as everyone knows when you design a product to fail it always always works out the way you expect and investors are always innocent dupes even when they are being paid millions to do the job of checking their investments.  SEC might have a chance as long as they don&#039;t worry too much about the facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>_hbw_, but as everyone knows when you design a product to fail it always always works out the way you expect and investors are always innocent dupes even when they are being paid millions to do the job of checking their investments.  SEC might have a chance as long as they don&#8217;t worry too much about the facts.</p>
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		<title>By: mfw13</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/28/jed-rakoffs-fraught-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-33528</link>
		<dc:creator>mfw13</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 06:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=11278#comment-33528</guid>
		<description>The reason the SEC almost always settles is that they are outgunned. The party they are attempting to prosecute almost always has more lawyers and other legal resources to defend themselves with, and those lawyers are a lot higher paid than SEC lawyers as well. 

Basically, the SEC doesn&#039;t have the legal resources or $$$ to actually prosecute a case completey, so they almost always settle for whatever they can get.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason the SEC almost always settles is that they are outgunned. The party they are attempting to prosecute almost always has more lawyers and other legal resources to defend themselves with, and those lawyers are a lot higher paid than SEC lawyers as well. </p>
<p>Basically, the SEC doesn&#8217;t have the legal resources or $$$ to actually prosecute a case completey, so they almost always settle for whatever they can get.</p>
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		<title>By: Progdef</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/28/jed-rakoffs-fraught-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-33527</link>
		<dc:creator>Progdef</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 05:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=11278#comment-33527</guid>
		<description>What?  When are the ratings agencies taking the fall?  I think Citigroup ought to get this deal - I am a shareholder.  So I think I should get this deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What?  When are the ratings agencies taking the fall?  I think Citigroup ought to get this deal &#8211; I am a shareholder.  So I think I should get this deal.</p>
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		<title>By: _hbw_</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/28/jed-rakoffs-fraught-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-33525</link>
		<dc:creator>_hbw_</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 05:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=11278#comment-33525</guid>
		<description>Just thinking about the litigation optics of this for the SEC...

Citi took a half-a-billion dollar prop short on Class V Funding III. The fact that Citi settled that up for ~$160 million at the expense of the long investors who weren&#039;t given disclosures looks good for the SEC.

But Ambac, a monoline insurer, took the long position on the super senior. Ambac was not just a &quot;sophisticated investor&quot; -- its business model included insuring RMBS&#039;s and CDOs and it had a substantial portfolio of CDS. Not sympathetic.

(Ambac had its own securities law problems -- it got sued by a bunch of pension funds for misleading investors about the extent of its exposure to synthetic CDOs and its RMBS underwriting standards.)

The SEC&#039;s complaint doesn&#039;t name the subordinate investors, but says that they were hedge funds, investment managers and other CDOs. Not a sympathetic bunch.

The bottom line, I think, is that this is not the case -- in terms of PR -- that the SEC should be trying. Airing the facts will serve the public interest, but I doubt the public has much interest in the woes of a  monoline insurer and a collection of hedge funds, other CDOs, and unnamed investment managers. 

Now, their action -- and subsequent quickie settlement -- against JP Morgan about the disclosures for  &quot;Squared&quot; at least had Thrivent as a sympathetic duped investor...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just thinking about the litigation optics of this for the SEC&#8230;</p>
<p>Citi took a half-a-billion dollar prop short on Class V Funding III. The fact that Citi settled that up for ~$160 million at the expense of the long investors who weren&#8217;t given disclosures looks good for the SEC.</p>
<p>But Ambac, a monoline insurer, took the long position on the super senior. Ambac was not just a &#8220;sophisticated investor&#8221; &#8212; its business model included insuring RMBS&#8217;s and CDOs and it had a substantial portfolio of CDS. Not sympathetic.</p>
<p>(Ambac had its own securities law problems &#8212; it got sued by a bunch of pension funds for misleading investors about the extent of its exposure to synthetic CDOs and its RMBS underwriting standards.)</p>
<p>The SEC&#8217;s complaint doesn&#8217;t name the subordinate investors, but says that they were hedge funds, investment managers and other CDOs. Not a sympathetic bunch.</p>
<p>The bottom line, I think, is that this is not the case &#8212; in terms of PR &#8212; that the SEC should be trying. Airing the facts will serve the public interest, but I doubt the public has much interest in the woes of a  monoline insurer and a collection of hedge funds, other CDOs, and unnamed investment managers. </p>
<p>Now, their action &#8212; and subsequent quickie settlement &#8212; against JP Morgan about the disclosures for  &#8220;Squared&#8221; at least had Thrivent as a sympathetic duped investor&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: _hbw_</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/28/jed-rakoffs-fraught-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-33523</link>
		<dc:creator>_hbw_</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 05:01:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=11278#comment-33523</guid>
		<description>Parties can settle out of court; it happens all the time. They could stipulate to a dismissal of the complaint without prejudice under FRCP 41(A)(1)(a) and then enter a letter agreement or similar contractual agreement to settle without court approval. (But, while this is theoretically possible, there is no way that the SEC would do this;  enforcement agencies often enter letter agreements or &quot;assurances of voluntary compliance,&quot; but they are generally considered &quot;weaker&quot; -- both in terms of enforcement and public perception -- than judgments.)

Consent judgments are decrees of the court, but practically speaking, they are simply contracts enforceable under the court&#039;s inherent contempt authority rather than private contracts enforceable by filing a new court action.

The court must approve both the monetary and injunctive terms of a consent judgment. Taking out the injunctive part doesn&#039;t give Citi and the SEC an easy out -- if money is proposed in the judgment, the court gets to have a say.

SEC could take an interlocutory appeal on Rakoff&#039;s refusal to enter the judgment. But at this point, Rakoff seems to have made his mind up about Citi and so why not take it to trial?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parties can settle out of court; it happens all the time. They could stipulate to a dismissal of the complaint without prejudice under FRCP 41(A)(1)(a) and then enter a letter agreement or similar contractual agreement to settle without court approval. (But, while this is theoretically possible, there is no way that the SEC would do this;  enforcement agencies often enter letter agreements or &#8220;assurances of voluntary compliance,&#8221; but they are generally considered &#8220;weaker&#8221; &#8212; both in terms of enforcement and public perception &#8212; than judgments.)</p>
<p>Consent judgments are decrees of the court, but practically speaking, they are simply contracts enforceable under the court&#8217;s inherent contempt authority rather than private contracts enforceable by filing a new court action.</p>
<p>The court must approve both the monetary and injunctive terms of a consent judgment. Taking out the injunctive part doesn&#8217;t give Citi and the SEC an easy out &#8212; if money is proposed in the judgment, the court gets to have a say.</p>
<p>SEC could take an interlocutory appeal on Rakoff&#8217;s refusal to enter the judgment. But at this point, Rakoff seems to have made his mind up about Citi and so why not take it to trial?</p>
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		<title>By: huadpe</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/28/jed-rakoffs-fraught-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-33516</link>
		<dc:creator>huadpe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 02:29:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=11278#comment-33516</guid>
		<description>Foppe,

They&#039;re allowed to settle in court, not out of court.  The court has to approve the settlement.  And in this case, the court didn&#039;t approve.  Often the courts do act as rubber stamps, which is unfortunate, and why Jed Rakoff is my nominee for Judge of the Year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Foppe,</p>
<p>They&#8217;re allowed to settle in court, not out of court.  The court has to approve the settlement.  And in this case, the court didn&#8217;t approve.  Often the courts do act as rubber stamps, which is unfortunate, and why Jed Rakoff is my nominee for Judge of the Year.</p>
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		<title>By: Foppe</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/28/jed-rakoffs-fraught-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-33512</link>
		<dc:creator>Foppe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 01:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=11278#comment-33512</guid>
		<description>huadpe: well, yes, but as you point out, what is required for those plea bargains is first, an admission of guilt, and second, a conviction by a judge. In these settlements, we generally see neither, and it is to the latter scenario that my question referred: why are they allowed to settle out of court?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>huadpe: well, yes, but as you point out, what is required for those plea bargains is first, an admission of guilt, and second, a conviction by a judge. In these settlements, we generally see neither, and it is to the latter scenario that my question referred: why are they allowed to settle out of court?</p>
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		<title>By: huadpe</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/28/jed-rakoffs-fraught-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-33507</link>
		<dc:creator>huadpe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 00:51:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=11278#comment-33507</guid>
		<description>Foppe,

They are allowed to settle because there&#039;s no point having trials if the parties agree on the facts.  In a criminal case, for example, you can admit guilt as part of a plea agreement, and take an agreed punishment, as an alternative to taking it to trial.  If Citi had done the same (admit guilt), then there would be no issue here.

Chris9059,

I don&#039;t think the 2nd Circuit will sustain it on appeal if it&#039;s just a rejection of the monetary damages.  I think they will demand of the district court an affirmative reason why the amount is grossly insufficient, which since it exceeds Citi&#039;s profits from the sale, is unlikely to hold too much water.  Most of Rakoff&#039;s argument really centers around the fact that the SEC is asking for his court to become an agent of this ruling through the injunctive relief, or at least that&#039;s how I read it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Foppe,</p>
<p>They are allowed to settle because there&#8217;s no point having trials if the parties agree on the facts.  In a criminal case, for example, you can admit guilt as part of a plea agreement, and take an agreed punishment, as an alternative to taking it to trial.  If Citi had done the same (admit guilt), then there would be no issue here.</p>
<p>Chris9059,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the 2nd Circuit will sustain it on appeal if it&#8217;s just a rejection of the monetary damages.  I think they will demand of the district court an affirmative reason why the amount is grossly insufficient, which since it exceeds Citi&#8217;s profits from the sale, is unlikely to hold too much water.  Most of Rakoff&#8217;s argument really centers around the fact that the SEC is asking for his court to become an agent of this ruling through the injunctive relief, or at least that&#8217;s how I read it.</p>
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		<title>By: chris9059</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2011/11/28/jed-rakoffs-fraught-decision/comment-page-1/#comment-33504</link>
		<dc:creator>chris9059</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 23:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=11278#comment-33504</guid>
		<description>Huadpe

You may be wrong about an easy out for SEC/Citi. The court must approve the monetary damages portion of the settlement even if the SEC does not seek an injunction.  Rakoff&#039;s reasoning in re the the statutory purpose of the SEC still exists even if injunctive relief is not sought. That is to say, the public interest in establishing a clear determination of whether violations of law occurred still exists and still bars acceptance of the proposed settlement whether or not injunctive relief is sought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huadpe</p>
<p>You may be wrong about an easy out for SEC/Citi. The court must approve the monetary damages portion of the settlement even if the SEC does not seek an injunction.  Rakoff&#8217;s reasoning in re the the statutory purpose of the SEC still exists even if injunctive relief is not sought. That is to say, the public interest in establishing a clear determination of whether violations of law occurred still exists and still bars acceptance of the proposed settlement whether or not injunctive relief is sought.</p>
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