Comments on: The Troika vs Greece http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/01/30/the-troika-vs-greece/ A slice of lime in the soda Sun, 26 Oct 2014 19:05:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: genauer http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/01/30/the-troika-vs-greece/comment-page-1/#comment-35504 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 23:11:10 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12050#comment-35504 Everybody knows, that Greece has again failed to fulfil the commitments. GDP deficit is not even falling. Stop all payments, and let this sovereign nation chart its own course, without our money. Seize all assets, close the borders. period.

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By: johnhhaskell http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/01/30/the-troika-vs-greece/comment-page-1/#comment-35468 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 09:30:37 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12050#comment-35468 How is it that everyone just assumes that a Greek expropriation of its bondholders requires the bondholders to go to Athens and they have no other recourse? Mikhail Khodorkovsky has recourse to the European Court in Strasbourg but Paul Singer doesn’t?!

Every scenario for a Greek default (illogical, I know, but still) assumes that Greece will continue to be a Eurozone member, i.e. to run payments through Target-2. Greek assets will be all over the map including in other European CB’s which (Bundesbank, I’m looking at you) don’t have sovereign immunity.

How is that all going to work, I still wonder.

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By: FifthDecade http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/01/30/the-troika-vs-greece/comment-page-1/#comment-35463 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 05:08:55 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12050#comment-35463 This is the problem that comes from relying on credit to float consumers into the heady clouds of “I can buy anything I like” when in actual fact there was no money in the kitty. We’ve just lived through a decade or so of delusion and have now hit the brick wall we pretended wasn’t there.

Real growth will only come from breaking our lust for the cheapest at all costs (those costs including our own jobs). The West is addicted to excess, and no voter is going to vote against that.

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By: y2kurtus http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/01/30/the-troika-vs-greece/comment-page-1/#comment-35461 Tue, 31 Jan 2012 03:39:20 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12050#comment-35461 “the new big worry is that Greece will fail to come to some kind of agreement with the Troika — the official-sector entities which are going to fund its deficits for the foreseeable future.”

-Felix that deal dosen’t exist. The problem is that the Troika is not willing to fund Greek deficits for the forceeable future. Why on earth would they be?

I’ve read everything I can get my eyes on about the greek debt crisis because I think it is a tradegy which will play out repeadetly… I have yet to hear a strong case be made for a multi-year phased bailout for the greeks. What does Europe get in return? Sure they might be able to sell a few more BMW’s or Benz’s… but no one has ever gotten rich selling something on credit and writing off 75% of the debt have they?

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By: revelo http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/01/30/the-troika-vs-greece/comment-page-1/#comment-35446 Mon, 30 Jan 2012 19:54:47 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12050#comment-35446 “the troika’s interests”? One member of the Troika (the EC) is primarily interested in getting re-elected and this member dominates the other two. So the proposal is written to pander to the voters in Germany, who, like all voters, have the attention span of a chipmunk. The ultimate solution is the same as always. Default, exile from the capital markets, forced balancing of the budget. The suffering will be immense, and serve as a warning to everyone. To the bondholders without CDS’s to be more careful about who they lend to. To the banks who wrote CDS’s to be careful about derivatives. To the citizens of incompetent governments to be more careful about who they vote into office.

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By: DanAllen http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/01/30/the-troika-vs-greece/comment-page-1/#comment-35432 Mon, 30 Jan 2012 14:31:24 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12050#comment-35432 You are largely right, I believe, that this isn’t about sovereignty. Really, I don’t think most Greeks care about that since they don’t trust their own gov’t, for good reason. The poison for the Greeks was the catch: public expenditure takes a back seat while debt service rules the roost.

By the way, there are many articles out there now that show Greece actually has a primary surplus at this point.

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By: Abulili http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/01/30/the-troika-vs-greece/comment-page-1/#comment-35431 Mon, 30 Jan 2012 14:18:42 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12050#comment-35431 Growth? Where exactly is it supposed to come from? No one has the slightest idea, that’s why we get enormously long articles about the minutiae that are at best relevant for the next 30-60 days. Two things only matter: 1) How will get Greece to a primary surplus quickly, which gives them a lot of independence? Probably only through a (further) massive downward adjustment of costs, primarily wages. Yes, that will mean some social unrest, but the vast majority of Greeks have already understood that it is unavoidable. 2) How can the restructuring be credibly done to make it both meaningful and minimize the likelihood of Portugal, and all other periphery countries, demanding the same treatment? Because let’s face it, there is simply no justification to treat the long-suffering Portuguese, Spaniards, Irish and Italians any different from the Greeks, and any pretense otherwise is not going to hold. Again, no answers, because there are no easy ones.

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