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	<title>Comments on: Greece&#8217;s bond exchange: it&#8217;s official</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/02/24/greeces-bond-exchange-its-official/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/02/24/greeces-bond-exchange-its-official/</link>
	<description>A slice of lime in the soda</description>
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		<title>By: mgb500</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/02/24/greeces-bond-exchange-its-official/comment-page-1/#comment-36363</link>
		<dc:creator>mgb500</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 06:21:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12261#comment-36363</guid>
		<description>Why don&#039;t the Greek government just replace all the legal BS - with the simple wording along the lines of:-

&quot;Ha Ha - we&#039;re a bunch of fraudsters and we&#039;ve suckered you again - we have your money &amp; you can&#039;t get it back. We might give you some toilet paper in exchange. Now we&#039;re going to gets lots of lovely free money from our fellow swindlers and liars the leaders of the 4th Reich. Of course we won&#039;t pay it back - you the peasants and suckers will do that for us&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why don&#8217;t the Greek government just replace all the legal BS &#8211; with the simple wording along the lines of:-</p>
<p>&#8220;Ha Ha &#8211; we&#8217;re a bunch of fraudsters and we&#8217;ve suckered you again &#8211; we have your money &#038; you can&#8217;t get it back. We might give you some toilet paper in exchange. Now we&#8217;re going to gets lots of lovely free money from our fellow swindlers and liars the leaders of the 4th Reich. Of course we won&#8217;t pay it back &#8211; you the peasants and suckers will do that for us&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: mgb500</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/02/24/greeces-bond-exchange-its-official/comment-page-1/#comment-36362</link>
		<dc:creator>mgb500</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 06:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12261#comment-36362</guid>
		<description>Why don&#039;t the Greek government just replace all the legal BS - with the simple wording along the lines of:-

&quot;Ha Ha - we&#039;re a bunch of fraudsters and we&#039;ve suckered you again - we have your money &amp; you can&#039;t get it back. We might give you some toilet paper in exchange. Now we&#039;re going to gets lots of lovely free money from our fellow swindlers and liars the leaders of the 4th Reich. Of course we won&#039;t pay it back - you the peasants and suckers will do that for us&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why don&#8217;t the Greek government just replace all the legal BS &#8211; with the simple wording along the lines of:-</p>
<p>&#8220;Ha Ha &#8211; we&#8217;re a bunch of fraudsters and we&#8217;ve suckered you again &#8211; we have your money &#038; you can&#8217;t get it back. We might give you some toilet paper in exchange. Now we&#8217;re going to gets lots of lovely free money from our fellow swindlers and liars the leaders of the 4th Reich. Of course we won&#8217;t pay it back &#8211; you the peasants and suckers will do that for us&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: gggonzo32</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/02/24/greeces-bond-exchange-its-official/comment-page-1/#comment-36349</link>
		<dc:creator>gggonzo32</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Feb 2012 14:55:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12261#comment-36349</guid>
		<description>they cant just stop paying the old bonds if only 75%-90% agree to the swap. the time period for the whole procedure is so short - there must be tons of people out there who will not respond at all (people who deliberately dont want to but also people who just cant in that time frame...). what an outrage if these people are suddenly left with nothing...
my take of all this:
full payout to old bonds if &gt;90% agree to the swap
deliberate uncertainty between 75-90%
no deal bel ow 75%</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>they cant just stop paying the old bonds if only 75%-90% agree to the swap. the time period for the whole procedure is so short &#8211; there must be tons of people out there who will not respond at all (people who deliberately dont want to but also people who just cant in that time frame&#8230;). what an outrage if these people are suddenly left with nothing&#8230;<br />
my take of all this:<br />
full payout to old bonds if >90% agree to the swap<br />
deliberate uncertainty between 75-90%<br />
no deal bel ow 75%</p>
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		<title>By: CDN_Rebel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/02/24/greeces-bond-exchange-its-official/comment-page-1/#comment-36336</link>
		<dc:creator>CDN_Rebel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Feb 2012 08:12:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12261#comment-36336</guid>
		<description>I think I agree with Turgot2, there will be a mass exodus from Greece but in the end that will be the biggest help for the Greek people. If these bailouts can be coupled with a medium-sized influx from the EIB and 10% of Greeks (roughly 1m) seek their riches abroad then this story can have a happy-ending (which is to say, a muddle through without things getting &#039;Arab Spring&#039;-worse).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I agree with Turgot2, there will be a mass exodus from Greece but in the end that will be the biggest help for the Greek people. If these bailouts can be coupled with a medium-sized influx from the EIB and 10% of Greeks (roughly 1m) seek their riches abroad then this story can have a happy-ending (which is to say, a muddle through without things getting &#8216;Arab Spring&#8217;-worse).</p>
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		<title>By: ARJTurgot2</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/02/24/greeces-bond-exchange-its-official/comment-page-1/#comment-36335</link>
		<dc:creator>ARJTurgot2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Feb 2012 03:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12261#comment-36335</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m going to nay say here, and vote this a miracle.  I, also, disdain Euro Socialist pinky wavers, but I never thought they would even get this far.  It&#039;ll be a mess, but they are going to pull this off after all.  Just expect the future to hold Gyros restaurants every other shop in Melbourne.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m going to nay say here, and vote this a miracle.  I, also, disdain Euro Socialist pinky wavers, but I never thought they would even get this far.  It&#8217;ll be a mess, but they are going to pull this off after all.  Just expect the future to hold Gyros restaurants every other shop in Melbourne.</p>
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		<title>By: TorrensHume</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/02/24/greeces-bond-exchange-its-official/comment-page-1/#comment-36332</link>
		<dc:creator>TorrensHume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 20:47:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12261#comment-36332</guid>
		<description>Perhaps its time to re-visit the debate on the Sovereign Debt Restructuring Mechanism:
http://www.cigionline.org/blogs/new-age-of-uncertainty/g20-and-sovereign-debt-restructuring-mechanism

More generally while the bond exchange is part of the solution, I can&#039;t hel but think that people forget that the problem faced by Greece and other European periphery countries is that they are experiencing twin crises (fiscal and current account crisies). And, twin crises mean that they need  two policy tools to  deal with the situation. 
 
So far policy makers have dealt treated the situation mostly as a fiscal crisis and ignored the current account crisis; and as a result they have focused on one policy tool -- financing of the Greek fiscal psoition to avoid &quot;default&quot;. 

The other policy tool, to deal with the current account imbalance, is a devaluation.  The classical internal devaluation means high unemployment and prolonged recesion. External devaluation avoids much of these problems.  The periphery therefore needs to consider options for an orderly euro exit and devaluation (as well as financing). 

http://www.specie-flow.net/2012/02/22/its-twins/


Two policy tools for twin crises.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps its time to re-visit the debate on the Sovereign Debt Restructuring Mechanism:<br />
<a href='http://www.cigionline.org/blogs/new-age-of-uncertainty/g20-and-sovereign-debt-restructuring-mechanism'>http://www.cigionline.org/blogs/new-age- of-uncertainty/g20-and-sovereign-debt-re structuring-mechanism</a></p>
<p>More generally while the bond exchange is part of the solution, I can&#8217;t hel but think that people forget that the problem faced by Greece and other European periphery countries is that they are experiencing twin crises (fiscal and current account crisies). And, twin crises mean that they need  two policy tools to  deal with the situation. </p>
<p>So far policy makers have dealt treated the situation mostly as a fiscal crisis and ignored the current account crisis; and as a result they have focused on one policy tool &#8212; financing of the Greek fiscal psoition to avoid &#8220;default&#8221;. </p>
<p>The other policy tool, to deal with the current account imbalance, is a devaluation.  The classical internal devaluation means high unemployment and prolonged recesion. External devaluation avoids much of these problems.  The periphery therefore needs to consider options for an orderly euro exit and devaluation (as well as financing). </p>
<p><a href='http://www.specie-flow.net/2012/02/22/its-twins/'>http://www.specie-flow.net/2012/02/22/it s-twins/</a></p>
<p>Two policy tools for twin crises.</p>
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		<title>By: skeptometric</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/02/24/greeces-bond-exchange-its-official/comment-page-1/#comment-36331</link>
		<dc:creator>skeptometric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 16:05:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12261#comment-36331</guid>
		<description>How could the average bondholder possibly make a rational decision about turning in his bonds?  Are the major holders - banks or whoever - going to hire programmers to calculate the alternatives, then monitor some sort of polls to see whether the mandatory bail-in will apply?  Is there a secret formula that some privileged holders will be able to apply?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How could the average bondholder possibly make a rational decision about turning in his bonds?  Are the major holders &#8211; banks or whoever &#8211; going to hire programmers to calculate the alternatives, then monitor some sort of polls to see whether the mandatory bail-in will apply?  Is there a secret formula that some privileged holders will be able to apply?</p>
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		<title>By: dandraka</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/02/24/greeces-bond-exchange-its-official/comment-page-1/#comment-36330</link>
		<dc:creator>dandraka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 16:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12261#comment-36330</guid>
		<description>@a.soffronow It doesn&#039;t. Greek pensions hold a lot of GGBs, and they&#039;re about to go semi-broke. That&#039;s one reason why bailout 2.0 needs so much money. Other reasons include refinancing greek banks, which also hold a lot of GGBs, and money to be used as &quot;sweeteners&quot; in the deal.

The reason it doesn&#039;t apply to other euro goverments&#039; bonds is because, as Felix was written (see &quot;The Greece game turns chaotic&quot;) they&#039;ve already converted them in shiny new different bonds which are not part of the deal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@a.soffronow It doesn&#8217;t. Greek pensions hold a lot of GGBs, and they&#8217;re about to go semi-broke. That&#8217;s one reason why bailout 2.0 needs so much money. Other reasons include refinancing greek banks, which also hold a lot of GGBs, and money to be used as &#8220;sweeteners&#8221; in the deal.</p>
<p>The reason it doesn&#8217;t apply to other euro goverments&#8217; bonds is because, as Felix was written (see &#8220;The Greece game turns chaotic&#8221;) they&#8217;ve already converted them in shiny new different bonds which are not part of the deal.</p>
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		<title>By: y2kurtus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/02/24/greeces-bond-exchange-its-official/comment-page-1/#comment-36325</link>
		<dc:creator>y2kurtus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 02:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12261#comment-36325</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m betting that Morgan town Joe is right... this deal is about to fall on it&#039;s face. 

Can anyone tell me what Europe gets in return for their 15% contribution? To me this would be like congress voting to give a massive amount of aid to a single state. 

Next can anyone explain to me why Greece is bothering to pay the last 13%? I suppose that token jesture is sort of like a thank you paid for out of the new bailout money. 

Lastly, where will the Greek budget stand in 2013. Their interest payments just fell by something north of 85%. What % of their budget was debt service? My guess is that they will have borrowing needs in 2013 and beyond.

If this deal is consumated on terms anywhere near the ones just announced investors the world over need to take a good hard look at the risk/reward profile of soverign debt. What interest rate justifies the risk of a 72% loss of principal?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m betting that Morgan town Joe is right&#8230; this deal is about to fall on it&#8217;s face. </p>
<p>Can anyone tell me what Europe gets in return for their 15% contribution? To me this would be like congress voting to give a massive amount of aid to a single state. </p>
<p>Next can anyone explain to me why Greece is bothering to pay the last 13%? I suppose that token jesture is sort of like a thank you paid for out of the new bailout money. </p>
<p>Lastly, where will the Greek budget stand in 2013. Their interest payments just fell by something north of 85%. What % of their budget was debt service? My guess is that they will have borrowing needs in 2013 and beyond.</p>
<p>If this deal is consumated on terms anywhere near the ones just announced investors the world over need to take a good hard look at the risk/reward profile of soverign debt. What interest rate justifies the risk of a 72% loss of principal?</p>
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		<title>By: MorgantownJoe</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/02/24/greeces-bond-exchange-its-official/comment-page-1/#comment-36323</link>
		<dc:creator>MorgantownJoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 23:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12261#comment-36323</guid>
		<description>@DCWright:  don&#039;t worry, the disorderly default is still to come.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@DCWright:  don&#8217;t worry, the disorderly default is still to come.</p>
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		<title>By: DCWright</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/02/24/greeces-bond-exchange-its-official/comment-page-1/#comment-36321</link>
		<dc:creator>DCWright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 21:27:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12261#comment-36321</guid>
		<description>What a clusterf**k. It would have been more &quot;orderly&quot; for Greece to have simply said &quot;we default&quot;, and nobody gets another dime in interest or principal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a clusterf**k. It would have been more &#8220;orderly&#8221; for Greece to have simply said &#8220;we default&#8221;, and nobody gets another dime in interest or principal.</p>
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		<title>By: alea</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/02/24/greeces-bond-exchange-its-official/comment-page-1/#comment-36320</link>
		<dc:creator>alea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 21:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12261#comment-36320</guid>
		<description>&quot; What’s the market price of the new bonds going to be? Not very much; my guess is that they’ll trade at roughly 40% of face value.&quot;
You are optimistic, I would say 10 to 15 top.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8221; What’s the market price of the new bonds going to be? Not very much; my guess is that they’ll trade at roughly 40% of face value.&#8221;<br />
You are optimistic, I would say 10 to 15 top.</p>
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		<title>By: sgp</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/02/24/greeces-bond-exchange-its-official/comment-page-1/#comment-36319</link>
		<dc:creator>sgp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 20:55:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12261#comment-36319</guid>
		<description>What about Greek bond credit default providers; do they get a free pass???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about Greek bond credit default providers; do they get a free pass???</p>
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		<title>By: FelixSalmon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/02/24/greeces-bond-exchange-its-official/comment-page-1/#comment-36318</link>
		<dc:creator>FelixSalmon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 20:31:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12261#comment-36318</guid>
		<description>@a.soffronow, the ECB has sprinkled magic dust on its Greece bonds and converted them to different bonds with the same coupons and maturities. So at this point, private investors (including Greek pension funds) own all the Greek bonds outstanding. And they&#039;re all being treated equally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@a.soffronow, the ECB has sprinkled magic dust on its Greece bonds and converted them to different bonds with the same coupons and maturities. So at this point, private investors (including Greek pension funds) own all the Greek bonds outstanding. And they&#8217;re all being treated equally.</p>
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		<title>By: autocorrelation</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/02/24/greeces-bond-exchange-its-official/comment-page-1/#comment-36317</link>
		<dc:creator>autocorrelation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 19:20:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=12261#comment-36317</guid>
		<description>Regarding the EFSF notes in place of what they initially said was the cash collateral: is this a semi-sneaky way of jump-starting the EFSF/EFSM debt market. Right now, there are only the few issuances done to fund Ireland and Portugal, creating a (fairly) thin market. After this swap, there will be much more floating around, establishing a more liquid market and making future issuances a bit easier. Of course, all of these issuances are relatively short maturity, but still..

Just a thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the EFSF notes in place of what they initially said was the cash collateral: is this a semi-sneaky way of jump-starting the EFSF/EFSM debt market. Right now, there are only the few issuances done to fund Ireland and Portugal, creating a (fairly) thin market. After this swap, there will be much more floating around, establishing a more liquid market and making future issuances a bit easier. Of course, all of these issuances are relatively short maturity, but still..</p>
<p>Just a thought.</p>
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