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	<title>Comments on: New York&#8217;s expensive bikeshare</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/07/new-yorks-expensive-bikeshare/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/07/new-yorks-expensive-bikeshare/</link>
	<description>A slice of lime in the soda</description>
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		<title>By: SeanSweeney</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/07/new-yorks-expensive-bikeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-39313</link>
		<dc:creator>SeanSweeney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2012 21:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13787#comment-39313</guid>
		<description>Salmon,

You&#039;ve been punked by DOT!!

Hope you and your little friends enjoy being overcharged to ride around on an overweight bike advertising for Citibank.

LMAO</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Salmon,</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve been punked by DOT!!</p>
<p>Hope you and your little friends enjoy being overcharged to ride around on an overweight bike advertising for Citibank.</p>
<p>LMAO</p>
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		<title>By: nnyc</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/07/new-yorks-expensive-bikeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-39054</link>
		<dc:creator>nnyc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 01:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13787#comment-39054</guid>
		<description>Felix Salmon, 

Dude, what&#039;s wrong with you? 

You pay 95 bucks. You ride a bike to work. You ride another one home. You ride one to the park on the weekend. You ride one back from the park. None of these trips take more than 45 minutes.

If you did this year round, you&#039;d be paying FIFTEEN CENTS per trip. How difficult is this to understand?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Felix Salmon, </p>
<p>Dude, what&#8217;s wrong with you? </p>
<p>You pay 95 bucks. You ride a bike to work. You ride another one home. You ride one to the park on the weekend. You ride one back from the park. None of these trips take more than 45 minutes.</p>
<p>If you did this year round, you&#8217;d be paying FIFTEEN CENTS per trip. How difficult is this to understand?</p>
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		<title>By: hansrudolf</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/07/new-yorks-expensive-bikeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-38923</link>
		<dc:creator>hansrudolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2012 15:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13787#comment-38923</guid>
		<description>here&#039;s what it costs in Milano:
subs:
annual (365 days) 36 €
• weekly (7 days) € 6,00
• daily (24 hours) € 2,50

use:
the first 30 minutes are free.
After the first 30 minutes you will pay € 0.50 for every subsequent half hour or fraction of half hour for a maximum of two hours.
Remember that the bike cannot be used for more than two hours*. After the two hour limit, you will be charged a € 2 penalty per hour or fraction of hour. Service is automatically suspended if you exceed this time limit three times. In this case, you can’t reactivate your card but you must subscribe again.
At least 10 minutes must elapse between the first and second use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>here&#8217;s what it costs in Milano:<br />
subs:<br />
annual (365 days) 36 €<br />
• weekly (7 days) € 6,00<br />
• daily (24 hours) € 2,50</p>
<p>use:<br />
the first 30 minutes are free.<br />
After the first 30 minutes you will pay € 0.50 for every subsequent half hour or fraction of half hour for a maximum of two hours.<br />
Remember that the bike cannot be used for more than two hours*. After the two hour limit, you will be charged a € 2 penalty per hour or fraction of hour. Service is automatically suspended if you exceed this time limit three times. In this case, you can’t reactivate your card but you must subscribe again.<br />
At least 10 minutes must elapse between the first and second use.</p>
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		<title>By: jefeto</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/07/new-yorks-expensive-bikeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-38859</link>
		<dc:creator>jefeto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 18:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13787#comment-38859</guid>
		<description>Glad to see someone with a larger platform than us commenters weigh-in: http://www.streetsblog.org/2012/05/08/bike-share-is-for-short-trips-not-four-hour-jaunts/?utm_source=twitterfeed&amp;utm_medium=twitter#comment-523182191



Not sure why this concept is so hard for otherwise smart journalists to graps. Ride it and drop it off so someone else can use it. $95 a year is cheap compared to every option except walking. Wise up crap ass writers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad to see someone with a larger platform than us commenters weigh-in: <a href='http://www.streetsblog.org/2012/05/08/bike-share-is-for-short-trips-not-four-hour-jaunts/?utm_source=twitterfeed&#038;utm_medium=twitter#comment-523182191'>http://www.streetsblog.org/2012/05/08/bi ke-share-is-for-short-trips-not-four-hou r-jaunts/?utm_source=twitterfeed&#038;utm_med ium=twitter#comment-523182191</a></p>
<p>Not sure why this concept is so hard for otherwise smart journalists to graps. Ride it and drop it off so someone else can use it. $95 a year is cheap compared to every option except walking. Wise up crap ass writers!</p>
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		<title>By: CdnExpat</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/07/new-yorks-expensive-bikeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-38828</link>
		<dc:creator>CdnExpat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 21:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13787#comment-38828</guid>
		<description>This article misses the point, as others have commented on.  Bixi and B-cycle systems are not for &quot;rentals&quot;, they are for short trips.  The whole point is to get residents to buy annual memberships.  Sure, they will make a buck off the odd tourist or casual user but the pricing deliberately scares off most of them.

For a more comprehensive view, looked at from the annual membership aspect, see:

http://www.blogto.com/city/2012/05/is_toronto_overpaying_for_bixi_bike-sharing/#comments

The key to NYC is that while the $95 annual fee is on the upper end of the range, they give you 45 min instead of the 30 min in other cities.  And the 10,000 (TEN THOUSAND!) bikes will ensure lots of opportunities to use it.  It will be a home run.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article misses the point, as others have commented on.  Bixi and B-cycle systems are not for &#8220;rentals&#8221;, they are for short trips.  The whole point is to get residents to buy annual memberships.  Sure, they will make a buck off the odd tourist or casual user but the pricing deliberately scares off most of them.</p>
<p>For a more comprehensive view, looked at from the annual membership aspect, see:</p>
<p><a href='http://www.blogto.com/city/2012/05/is_toronto_overpaying_for_bixi_bike-sharing/#comments'>http://www.blogto.com/city/2012/05/is_to ronto_overpaying_for_bixi_bike-sharing/# comments</a></p>
<p>The key to NYC is that while the $95 annual fee is on the upper end of the range, they give you 45 min instead of the 30 min in other cities.  And the 10,000 (TEN THOUSAND!) bikes will ensure lots of opportunities to use it.  It will be a home run.</p>
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		<title>By: indy.texto</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/07/new-yorks-expensive-bikeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-38808</link>
		<dc:creator>indy.texto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 15:44:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13787#comment-38808</guid>
		<description>This bikeshare program exists to make money for the banks  but neither to lower the pollution level nor as a part of a mobilitty management program. 

In Sweden, for 20 kronas a day 2.5 US$ you can rent a bike for 24 hours. In Lund, they provide a bike for every student free of charge (300 Sw Kr deposit / year only refunded when you bring back the bike).

  Bikes are maintained by city hall workshops free of charge to.. Why such a nice policy ? No car lobbying groups  no Swedish oil company, no car industry ( except Volvo), heavy taxes on the purchase of cars. And a national mobility management scheme at the national level. In every city, the access to downtown is limited.  
Consequences : very low air pollution, and plenty of people biking all over the place ( more than 50% of urban trips in Lund are performed on a bike).  
The city halls save a lot of money on repairs as a bicycle track requires almost no maintenance. Urban dwellers are much more fit and show a better physical health.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This bikeshare program exists to make money for the banks  but neither to lower the pollution level nor as a part of a mobilitty management program. </p>
<p>In Sweden, for 20 kronas a day 2.5 US$ you can rent a bike for 24 hours. In Lund, they provide a bike for every student free of charge (300 Sw Kr deposit / year only refunded when you bring back the bike).</p>
<p>  Bikes are maintained by city hall workshops free of charge to.. Why such a nice policy ? No car lobbying groups  no Swedish oil company, no car industry ( except Volvo), heavy taxes on the purchase of cars. And a national mobility management scheme at the national level. In every city, the access to downtown is limited.<br />
Consequences : very low air pollution, and plenty of people biking all over the place ( more than 50% of urban trips in Lund are performed on a bike).<br />
The city halls save a lot of money on repairs as a bicycle track requires almost no maintenance. Urban dwellers are much more fit and show a better physical health.</p>
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		<title>By: weiwentg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/07/new-yorks-expensive-bikeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-38803</link>
		<dc:creator>weiwentg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 May 2012 14:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13787#comment-38803</guid>
		<description>Someone else posted a statistic: 88 percent of Capital Bikeshare trips in DC are for under 30 minutes. That&#039;s the whole point of a bike sharing system. So, people clearly want to use bikeshares for short trips, and only a handful of folks use it for long ones. Certainly, those folks should consider just renting a bike.

Another poster alluded to this, but if you have a system where the majority of trips are 2 hours or more, it&#039;s much more difficult to guarantee availability. The amount of turnover in CaBi means that you can march up to a station and almost always have a bike there.

http://www.streetsblog.org/2012/05/08/bike-share-is-for-short-trips-not-four-hour-jaunts/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Someone else posted a statistic: 88 percent of Capital Bikeshare trips in DC are for under 30 minutes. That&#8217;s the whole point of a bike sharing system. So, people clearly want to use bikeshares for short trips, and only a handful of folks use it for long ones. Certainly, those folks should consider just renting a bike.</p>
<p>Another poster alluded to this, but if you have a system where the majority of trips are 2 hours or more, it&#8217;s much more difficult to guarantee availability. The amount of turnover in CaBi means that you can march up to a station and almost always have a bike there.</p>
<p><a href='http://www.streetsblog.org/2012/05/08/bike-share-is-for-short-trips-not-four-hour-jaunts/'>http://www.streetsblog.org/2012/05/08/bi ke-share-is-for-short-trips-not-four-hou r-jaunts/</a></p>
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		<title>By: JacobMatthew</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/07/new-yorks-expensive-bikeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-38790</link>
		<dc:creator>JacobMatthew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 22:31:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13787#comment-38790</guid>
		<description>IRMO is spot on. What Felix Salmon proposes is equivalent to taking a taxi around town for 4 hours but having it keep the meter running at every destination. That simply is not how taxis are designed to be used, and their fare structure discourages such use. The same is true for bikeshare. If the stations are well spaced, there should be a station near every destination within the bikeshare area. You dock your bike whenever you get somewhere and walk the final few blocks. This is a transit system, not a recreation rental service, and we really need to start talking about it as such.

The trip to Governor&#039;s Island analogy is ludicrous. If you wanted to take a recreational pleasure driving trip to the countryside, you&#039;d never hire a taxi to do so, you&#039;d rent a car. Similarly, you wouldn&#039;t take a bikeshare on a long recreational bike trip either. You&#039;d rent a bike from a bike shop. The pricing will make this an extremely obvious choice. Apparently, though, it&#039;s not obvious enough for Felix Salmon to understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IRMO is spot on. What Felix Salmon proposes is equivalent to taking a taxi around town for 4 hours but having it keep the meter running at every destination. That simply is not how taxis are designed to be used, and their fare structure discourages such use. The same is true for bikeshare. If the stations are well spaced, there should be a station near every destination within the bikeshare area. You dock your bike whenever you get somewhere and walk the final few blocks. This is a transit system, not a recreation rental service, and we really need to start talking about it as such.</p>
<p>The trip to Governor&#8217;s Island analogy is ludicrous. If you wanted to take a recreational pleasure driving trip to the countryside, you&#8217;d never hire a taxi to do so, you&#8217;d rent a car. Similarly, you wouldn&#8217;t take a bikeshare on a long recreational bike trip either. You&#8217;d rent a bike from a bike shop. The pricing will make this an extremely obvious choice. Apparently, though, it&#8217;s not obvious enough for Felix Salmon to understand.</p>
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		<title>By: very-simple</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/07/new-yorks-expensive-bikeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-38788</link>
		<dc:creator>very-simple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 21:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13787#comment-38788</guid>
		<description>@davidsteven - I don&#039;t disagree that the tidal issue could be a problem, but I think you&#039;re blowing it out of proportion.  As someone who reverse commutes to CT every day, I would absolutely use bikeshare to ride to GCT rather than take the subway.  Presumably, there would then be a large crowd of people who arrive into GCT, some of whom would take those bikes back out to various business districts around the city like times square.  and then tourists would ride from times square back to my neighborhood of the Upper West side to go to the parks or museums.  

I think the fact that NYC has multiple business districts, along with people who live/work in ALL parts of the city, will mitigate the issue greatly.  And then Alta is required to redistribute as part of their agreement - that cost has already been priced into the program.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@davidsteven &#8211; I don&#8217;t disagree that the tidal issue could be a problem, but I think you&#8217;re blowing it out of proportion.  As someone who reverse commutes to CT every day, I would absolutely use bikeshare to ride to GCT rather than take the subway.  Presumably, there would then be a large crowd of people who arrive into GCT, some of whom would take those bikes back out to various business districts around the city like times square.  and then tourists would ride from times square back to my neighborhood of the Upper West side to go to the parks or museums.  </p>
<p>I think the fact that NYC has multiple business districts, along with people who live/work in ALL parts of the city, will mitigate the issue greatly.  And then Alta is required to redistribute as part of their agreement &#8211; that cost has already been priced into the program.</p>
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		<title>By: sromalewski</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/07/new-yorks-expensive-bikeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-38774</link>
		<dc:creator>sromalewski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 18:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13787#comment-38774</guid>
		<description>A couple of the comments highlighted the idea of bikeshare being best suited to &quot;the last mile&quot; of your transportation options.  Last year I analyzed the crowdsourced suggestions for bikeshare docking stations in relation to subway entrances/exits -- in effect, trying to identify the best spots for docking stations for the last leg of a trip after you&#039;ve arrived by subway (or biking to your subway station to start on your trip).

Here&#039;s the post: http://spatialityblog.com/2011/09/29/spatial-analysis-of-nyc-bikeshare-maps/  I discuss other aspects of DOT&#039;s crowdsource project (data quality, spatial analysis techniques, etc).  But about halfway down I get into the nuts and bolts of rating the crowd&#039;s suggested docking station locations in relation to subways.

I&#039;m looking forward to seeing the DOT&#039;s final maps.  I&#039;ll try to compare the actual docking station locations with what the crowd had suggested over the last year, and how closely the locations match the crowd&#039;s preference as well as the actual subway entrances and exits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of the comments highlighted the idea of bikeshare being best suited to &#8220;the last mile&#8221; of your transportation options.  Last year I analyzed the crowdsourced suggestions for bikeshare docking stations in relation to subway entrances/exits &#8212; in effect, trying to identify the best spots for docking stations for the last leg of a trip after you&#8217;ve arrived by subway (or biking to your subway station to start on your trip).</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the post: <a href='http://spatialityblog.com/2011/09/29/spatial-analysis-of-nyc-bikeshare-maps/'>http://spatialityblog.com/2011/09/29/spa tial-analysis-of-nyc-bikeshare-maps/</a>  I discuss other aspects of DOT&#8217;s crowdsource project (data quality, spatial analysis techniques, etc).  But about halfway down I get into the nuts and bolts of rating the crowd&#8217;s suggested docking station locations in relation to subways.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m looking forward to seeing the DOT&#8217;s final maps.  I&#8217;ll try to compare the actual docking station locations with what the crowd had suggested over the last year, and how closely the locations match the crowd&#8217;s preference as well as the actual subway entrances and exits.</p>
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		<title>By: HamTech87</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/07/new-yorks-expensive-bikeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-38771</link>
		<dc:creator>HamTech87</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 17:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13787#comment-38771</guid>
		<description>I was a tourist in Montreal.  I used Bixi BikeShare a lot.  Never did I have a bike for longer than 45 minutes.  The abundant stations were well-distributed, and at every destination. 

As a periodic (every few weeks) visitor to NYC, the $95 annual membership is a bargain.  All I ask is that NYC keep building more protected bike lanes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a tourist in Montreal.  I used Bixi BikeShare a lot.  Never did I have a bike for longer than 45 minutes.  The abundant stations were well-distributed, and at every destination. </p>
<p>As a periodic (every few weeks) visitor to NYC, the $95 annual membership is a bargain.  All I ask is that NYC keep building more protected bike lanes!</p>
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		<title>By: qrt145</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/07/new-yorks-expensive-bikeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-38761</link>
		<dc:creator>qrt145</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 14:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13787#comment-38761</guid>
		<description>Like others have said, the system is intended to encourage short trips.

That said, I wouldn&#039;t want to keep the bike for hours even if it were cheap. You can&#039;t let it out of your sight; it might be stolen and then you&#039;d have a $1000 bill for the missing bike. The bikes don&#039;t come with locks; do you expect tourists to bring their own?

In any case, it is true that the fees are way more expensive than other cities, even London, which is a very expensive city in general. The daily fee of $10 for casual users is particularly bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like others have said, the system is intended to encourage short trips.</p>
<p>That said, I wouldn&#8217;t want to keep the bike for hours even if it were cheap. You can&#8217;t let it out of your sight; it might be stolen and then you&#8217;d have a $1000 bill for the missing bike. The bikes don&#8217;t come with locks; do you expect tourists to bring their own?</p>
<p>In any case, it is true that the fees are way more expensive than other cities, even London, which is a very expensive city in general. The daily fee of $10 for casual users is particularly bad.</p>
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		<title>By: IRMO</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/07/new-yorks-expensive-bikeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-38760</link>
		<dc:creator>IRMO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 13:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13787#comment-38760</guid>
		<description>In related news, it&#039;s very expensive to hire a cab for an all day trip..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In related news, it&#8217;s very expensive to hire a cab for an all day trip..</p>
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		<title>By: PASystems</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/07/new-yorks-expensive-bikeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-38758</link>
		<dc:creator>PASystems</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 12:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13787#comment-38758</guid>
		<description>I would enjoy knowing if Bike Shares will be available in all the boroughs. The only information currently available is about Manhattan locations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would enjoy knowing if Bike Shares will be available in all the boroughs. The only information currently available is about Manhattan locations.</p>
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		<title>By: davidsteven</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/07/new-yorks-expensive-bikeshare/comment-page-1/#comment-38756</link>
		<dc:creator>davidsteven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 10:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13787#comment-38756</guid>
		<description>@very-simple - redistribution is very tough/expensive if flow is heavily tidal (which largely depends on the size of the after-rail market), and full/empty docking stations rapidly erode trust in the scheme.

Casual users, doing short hops between meetings/tourist attractions, improve the system&#039;s diversity. Or they would do if not deterred by a $10 daily rental. They&#039;re not the answer to the redistribution problem, but they help.

In an ideal world, you&#039;d also have small incentives for those who move bikes from full or nearly full, to empty or nearly empty docking stations (maybe points on an incentive scheme).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@very-simple &#8211; redistribution is very tough/expensive if flow is heavily tidal (which largely depends on the size of the after-rail market), and full/empty docking stations rapidly erode trust in the scheme.</p>
<p>Casual users, doing short hops between meetings/tourist attractions, improve the system&#8217;s diversity. Or they would do if not deterred by a $10 daily rental. They&#8217;re not the answer to the redistribution problem, but they help.</p>
<p>In an ideal world, you&#8217;d also have small incentives for those who move bikes from full or nearly full, to empty or nearly empty docking stations (maybe points on an incentive scheme).</p>
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