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	<title>Comments on: JP Morgan: When basis trades blow up</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/10/jp-morgan-when-basis-trades-blow-up/</link>
	<description>A slice of lime in the soda</description>
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		<title>By: ColonelAngus</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/10/jp-morgan-when-basis-trades-blow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-39141</link>
		<dc:creator>ColonelAngus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 07:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13930#comment-39141</guid>
		<description>Just for good order I have never seen a more clearer admission of fault and guilt by a governing officer of a bank and yet he is still retained by the shareholders.
Unless he runs his business like the Murdochs he was obviously aware that this was a straight out punt which went wrong. So why does he still have a job ?
The answer is that the democrats are one of the best republican parties (in disguise) that have ever occupied the white house.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just for good order I have never seen a more clearer admission of fault and guilt by a governing officer of a bank and yet he is still retained by the shareholders.<br />
Unless he runs his business like the Murdochs he was obviously aware that this was a straight out punt which went wrong. So why does he still have a job ?<br />
The answer is that the democrats are one of the best republican parties (in disguise) that have ever occupied the white house.</p>
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		<title>By: rg.williams</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/10/jp-morgan-when-basis-trades-blow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-38947</link>
		<dc:creator>rg.williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 May 2012 02:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13930#comment-38947</guid>
		<description>At a minimum, CEO Dimon should resign from the NY Fed if not from JP Morgan Chase, as well. 

One would think after the fiasco of the 2007-2008 financial crisis, the too-big-to-fail (“TBTF”) banks would have learned a lesson about risk management --- but, no, here we are again with JP Morgan Chase losing $2+ billion of their &quot;own&quot; money --- and under the leadership of CEO Dimon who is one of those most vocal against limiting the banks&#039; proprietary trading under proposed legislation. 

The shareholders, bondholders and managements of these TBTF banks should pay the price for &quot;mistakes&quot; such as JP Morgan Chase&#039;s recent fiasco. However, the US taxpayer remains on the hook just as in the 2007-2008 financial crisis. 

Banks have been granted their &quot;franchises&quot; and given preferential treatment to serve the needs of the general economy and to facilitate the movement of funds between individuals/entities wanting to have a relatively safe haven for their excess liquidity (aka, depositors) and those needing to borrow those resources. Proprietary trading of the TBTF banks’ &quot;own&quot; funds has little place in this economic environment --- those funds should be distributed to the shareholders who can then invest in riskier asset classes under their own decision regimen. If a hedge fund investment is what they want, then let them make a conscious decision to invest in a hedge fund, without any Federal guarantee of the investment. 

This approach would take much of the burden off US taxpayers to correct the &quot; sloppy” and “stupid&quot; decisions (CEO Dimon’s own adjectives) that have been made by the TBTF banks in the post-Glass-Steagall era. 

For more on the interaction of financial and political decision-making, see http://theviewfromthemiddleoftheroad.blogspot.com/.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At a minimum, CEO Dimon should resign from the NY Fed if not from JP Morgan Chase, as well. </p>
<p>One would think after the fiasco of the 2007-2008 financial crisis, the too-big-to-fail (“TBTF”) banks would have learned a lesson about risk management &#8212; but, no, here we are again with JP Morgan Chase losing $2+ billion of their &#8220;own&#8221; money &#8212; and under the leadership of CEO Dimon who is one of those most vocal against limiting the banks&#8217; proprietary trading under proposed legislation. </p>
<p>The shareholders, bondholders and managements of these TBTF banks should pay the price for &#8220;mistakes&#8221; such as JP Morgan Chase&#8217;s recent fiasco. However, the US taxpayer remains on the hook just as in the 2007-2008 financial crisis. </p>
<p>Banks have been granted their &#8220;franchises&#8221; and given preferential treatment to serve the needs of the general economy and to facilitate the movement of funds between individuals/entities wanting to have a relatively safe haven for their excess liquidity (aka, depositors) and those needing to borrow those resources. Proprietary trading of the TBTF banks’ &#8220;own&#8221; funds has little place in this economic environment &#8212; those funds should be distributed to the shareholders who can then invest in riskier asset classes under their own decision regimen. If a hedge fund investment is what they want, then let them make a conscious decision to invest in a hedge fund, without any Federal guarantee of the investment. </p>
<p>This approach would take much of the burden off US taxpayers to correct the &#8221; sloppy” and “stupid&#8221; decisions (CEO Dimon’s own adjectives) that have been made by the TBTF banks in the post-Glass-Steagall era. </p>
<p>For more on the interaction of financial and political decision-making, see <a href='http://theviewfromthemiddleoftheroad.blogspot.com/.'>http://theviewfromthemiddleoftheroad.blo gspot.com/.</a></p>
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		<title>By: thebeorn</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/10/jp-morgan-when-basis-trades-blow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-38943</link>
		<dc:creator>thebeorn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 May 2012 20:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13930#comment-38943</guid>
		<description>realist50  you ask so what?  How interesting that you dont mind a bank using taxpayer insured money to gamble for their own profit.  This happened in the late 80&#039;s as well and gave us the savings and loan crisis with the resulting Resolution trust bank to clean the mess up.  Additionally we are are allowing these banks to borrow money essentially at 0% interest at the expense of those who have saved and so are getting nothing for their thriftiness and then using this money not to make loans and grow the economy but to place bets .....how sad that even knowing this  you and others dont care....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>realist50  you ask so what?  How interesting that you dont mind a bank using taxpayer insured money to gamble for their own profit.  This happened in the late 80&#8242;s as well and gave us the savings and loan crisis with the resulting Resolution trust bank to clean the mess up.  Additionally we are are allowing these banks to borrow money essentially at 0% interest at the expense of those who have saved and so are getting nothing for their thriftiness and then using this money not to make loans and grow the economy but to place bets &#8230;..how sad that even knowing this  you and others dont care&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Pohadka</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/10/jp-morgan-when-basis-trades-blow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-38939</link>
		<dc:creator>Pohadka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 May 2012 13:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13930#comment-38939</guid>
		<description>On the subject of CDS and the unclear raison d&#039;etre for JP Morgan&#039;s humongous bet: JP has indeed had a more favourable CDS than the other US big banks. Could the bets have been made to influence the bank&#039;s own CDS? It wouldn&#039;t be the first time it&#039;s been attempted: http://uti.is/2012/04/bruno-iksil-the-100bn-bet-and-jp-morgans-cds/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the subject of CDS and the unclear raison d&#8217;etre for JP Morgan&#8217;s humongous bet: JP has indeed had a more favourable CDS than the other US big banks. Could the bets have been made to influence the bank&#8217;s own CDS? It wouldn&#8217;t be the first time it&#8217;s been attempted: <a href='http://uti.is/2012/04/bruno-iksil-the-100bn-bet-and-jp-morgans-cds/'>http://uti.is/2012/04/bruno-iksil-the-10 0bn-bet-and-jp-morgans-cds/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/10/jp-morgan-when-basis-trades-blow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-38933</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 May 2012 03:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13930#comment-38933</guid>
		<description>www.senlikzamani.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href='http://www.senlikzamani.com'>http://www.senlikzamani.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: maxi_milian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/10/jp-morgan-when-basis-trades-blow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-38922</link>
		<dc:creator>maxi_milian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2012 15:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13930#comment-38922</guid>
		<description>Everyone is smarter after the fact occurence, even though things that happen in the future are uncertain. Heding some illiquid positions is a very tricky business... What if JPM didn&#039;t do any macro-hedge, their short position (whatever that is) went sour, causing a 1 bn loss, and CDX spreads actually tightened? then JPM bankers would have been lynched for not managing their risks properly. so whatever you do, you might be right or wrong in the retrospect - banking is a risky business, means future outcomes are uncertain, and some trades or hedges might not work as envisioned. as long as this stays within amounts manageable for an institution without causing systemic effects, that should be fine, even though the media and public are keen for hot stories... 2bn loss sounds pretty substantial to fire some people and rethink the limits for JPM... the regulators are meanwhile familiar with the financial markets business complexities and limitations, so hopefully will make a good decision on whether such risk taking needs tighter regulation or it is rather a propriatary problem of the bank and its owners .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone is smarter after the fact occurence, even though things that happen in the future are uncertain. Heding some illiquid positions is a very tricky business&#8230; What if JPM didn&#8217;t do any macro-hedge, their short position (whatever that is) went sour, causing a 1 bn loss, and CDX spreads actually tightened? then JPM bankers would have been lynched for not managing their risks properly. so whatever you do, you might be right or wrong in the retrospect &#8211; banking is a risky business, means future outcomes are uncertain, and some trades or hedges might not work as envisioned. as long as this stays within amounts manageable for an institution without causing systemic effects, that should be fine, even though the media and public are keen for hot stories&#8230; 2bn loss sounds pretty substantial to fire some people and rethink the limits for JPM&#8230; the regulators are meanwhile familiar with the financial markets business complexities and limitations, so hopefully will make a good decision on whether such risk taking needs tighter regulation or it is rather a propriatary problem of the bank and its owners .</p>
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		<title>By: ptiffany</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/10/jp-morgan-when-basis-trades-blow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-38912</link>
		<dc:creator>ptiffany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 19:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13930#comment-38912</guid>
		<description>Catfish, what are you talking about?  What&#039;s two billion dollars to a beheamoth like JP Morgan Chase - a week of profit or loss?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Catfish, what are you talking about?  What&#8217;s two billion dollars to a beheamoth like JP Morgan Chase &#8211; a week of profit or loss?</p>
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		<title>By: Effed</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/10/jp-morgan-when-basis-trades-blow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-38909</link>
		<dc:creator>Effed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 18:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13930#comment-38909</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m the CEO of The Bank of Screwya. The Fed has given me access to extremely cheap dollars (low rates). The intent is for The Bank of Screwya to lend to American home mortgage consumers.

As intended... I can make 30 year mortgage loans to American home buyers and earn a tiny protracted profit. I bundle these loans into &quot;Collateralized Debt Obligations&quot; and sell them to pension funds.

Or... The Bank of Screwya can purchase bonds with these &quot;extremely cheap dollars&quot;. Bonds from sovereign European countries like Anusgreece. The sovereign nation Anusgreece is receiving loans from the European Union (Germany) to remain solvent. So... The bonds issued by Anusgreece have a high rate of return... like 13%, because they are risky.

It&#039;s all about risk management.

As CEO of The Bank of Screwya, my bonus is based on our profit. If The Bank of Screwya makes the virtually guaranteed 2.5% profit (low risk) by making mortgage loans, as intended, my bonus will be about 1 million dollars. If The Bank of Scerwya makes 13% in the Eurozone bond market, my bonus will be 100 million dollars. BUT THIS IS RISKY.......................... or is it?

My bonus is &quot;contractually guaranteed&quot;. If we go bust, we are &quot;too big to fail&quot;. The federal gov&#039;t of The USA (actually, it&#039;s the US taxpayer) will have to bailout The Bank of Screwya. I will be fired and my career will be over... but I get 100 million in contractually guaranteed bonuses.

If sovereign nations like Anusgreece remain solvent for a couple of years, I can collect my $100 bonus for a couple of years before the house of cards comes down.

As CEO of The Bank of Screwya, what would you do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m the CEO of The Bank of Screwya. The Fed has given me access to extremely cheap dollars (low rates). The intent is for The Bank of Screwya to lend to American home mortgage consumers.</p>
<p>As intended&#8230; I can make 30 year mortgage loans to American home buyers and earn a tiny protracted profit. I bundle these loans into &#8220;Collateralized Debt Obligations&#8221; and sell them to pension funds.</p>
<p>Or&#8230; The Bank of Screwya can purchase bonds with these &#8220;extremely cheap dollars&#8221;. Bonds from sovereign European countries like Anusgreece. The sovereign nation Anusgreece is receiving loans from the European Union (Germany) to remain solvent. So&#8230; The bonds issued by Anusgreece have a high rate of return&#8230; like 13%, because they are risky.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all about risk management.</p>
<p>As CEO of The Bank of Screwya, my bonus is based on our profit. If The Bank of Screwya makes the virtually guaranteed 2.5% profit (low risk) by making mortgage loans, as intended, my bonus will be about 1 million dollars. If The Bank of Scerwya makes 13% in the Eurozone bond market, my bonus will be 100 million dollars. BUT THIS IS RISKY&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.. or is it?</p>
<p>My bonus is &#8220;contractually guaranteed&#8221;. If we go bust, we are &#8220;too big to fail&#8221;. The federal gov&#8217;t of The USA (actually, it&#8217;s the US taxpayer) will have to bailout The Bank of Screwya. I will be fired and my career will be over&#8230; but I get 100 million in contractually guaranteed bonuses.</p>
<p>If sovereign nations like Anusgreece remain solvent for a couple of years, I can collect my $100 bonus for a couple of years before the house of cards comes down.</p>
<p>As CEO of The Bank of Screwya, what would you do?</p>
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		<title>By: Acetracy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/10/jp-morgan-when-basis-trades-blow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-38903</link>
		<dc:creator>Acetracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 16:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13930#comment-38903</guid>
		<description>Whether it is basis, calendar, CDS, curve or some other trade, the simple fact that $2billion was lost from a trade that had nothing to do as a &quot;hedge&quot;.  It was a speculative bet.

No investor takes on such a huge position in a security/market where liquidity doesn&#039;t exist.  Liquidity is probably the most important consideration in owning any security since it determines spreads, ability to sell/buy, and ultimately profitability.  Everyone knows the JPM is up to their eye teeth in derivatives - and they are still working down this position while we talk.

JPM supposedly hires the best and brightest, yet Dimon said himself it was &#039;poorly executed and monitored&#039;.  What this says is that no one has enough knowledge and controls to handle these toxic trades.  JPM reaped huge benefits from the 2008 crash (basically got Bear Stearns for pennies and handed off the risks to the tax payers).  They have been the blue chip standard for all the financial gurus pushing deregulation.

Of course, the big question is who is next?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether it is basis, calendar, CDS, curve or some other trade, the simple fact that $2billion was lost from a trade that had nothing to do as a &#8220;hedge&#8221;.  It was a speculative bet.</p>
<p>No investor takes on such a huge position in a security/market where liquidity doesn&#8217;t exist.  Liquidity is probably the most important consideration in owning any security since it determines spreads, ability to sell/buy, and ultimately profitability.  Everyone knows the JPM is up to their eye teeth in derivatives &#8211; and they are still working down this position while we talk.</p>
<p>JPM supposedly hires the best and brightest, yet Dimon said himself it was &#8216;poorly executed and monitored&#8217;.  What this says is that no one has enough knowledge and controls to handle these toxic trades.  JPM reaped huge benefits from the 2008 crash (basically got Bear Stearns for pennies and handed off the risks to the tax payers).  They have been the blue chip standard for all the financial gurus pushing deregulation.</p>
<p>Of course, the big question is who is next?</p>
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		<title>By: Tseko</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/10/jp-morgan-when-basis-trades-blow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-38900</link>
		<dc:creator>Tseko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 16:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13930#comment-38900</guid>
		<description>I would just point out that a basis trade is a very different strategy from a curve trade (and yes, Felix, you can&#039;t really have such a loss from a basis trade). Let&#039;s read up before we write.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would just point out that a basis trade is a very different strategy from a curve trade (and yes, Felix, you can&#8217;t really have such a loss from a basis trade). Let&#8217;s read up before we write.</p>
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		<title>By: Greycap</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/10/jp-morgan-when-basis-trades-blow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-38893</link>
		<dc:creator>Greycap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 12:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13930#comment-38893</guid>
		<description>Over at Alphaville, Lisa Pollack is also speculating that the money was lost on a credit basis trade: http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2012/05/11/996131/too-big-to-hedge/.

However, she is guessing calendar basis, not bond/CDS. She doesn&#039;t have any more facts to support her guess than you do, Felix, but she tells a better story. She also makes a good point at the end: if there is enough publicly available information to see that something big and unusual is going on in CDX.NA.IG.9, shouldn&#039;t the regulators be trawling through the DTCC data to see what&#039;s going on? Isn&#039;t that supposed to be its purpose?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Over at Alphaville, Lisa Pollack is also speculating that the money was lost on a credit basis trade: <a href='http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2012/05/11/996131/too-big-to-hedge/.'>http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2012/05/ 11/996131/too-big-to-hedge/.</a></p>
<p>However, she is guessing calendar basis, not bond/CDS. She doesn&#8217;t have any more facts to support her guess than you do, Felix, but she tells a better story. She also makes a good point at the end: if there is enough publicly available information to see that something big and unusual is going on in CDX.NA.IG.9, shouldn&#8217;t the regulators be trawling through the DTCC data to see what&#8217;s going on? Isn&#8217;t that supposed to be its purpose?</p>
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		<title>By: Sechel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/10/jp-morgan-when-basis-trades-blow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-38891</link>
		<dc:creator>Sechel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 10:09:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13930#comment-38891</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve not heard this theory put out, but accepting the stupidity of JP Morgan, and they were stupid, I wonder if there will be any introspection to look at the Fed&#039;s role here.  While the Fed didn&#039;t tell JP Morgan to engage in this sort of trade, they are promoting a very interesting landscape via Fed policy. At zero interest rates, the spread is just not there for the bank&#039;s to make certain types of loans or to take off the top of savings accounts and checking accounts, so the business model seems to be large proprietary bets and banking products that target fees instead of yield spread maintained by the bank(one big example here is prepaid debit cards which carry huge monthly fees).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve not heard this theory put out, but accepting the stupidity of JP Morgan, and they were stupid, I wonder if there will be any introspection to look at the Fed&#8217;s role here.  While the Fed didn&#8217;t tell JP Morgan to engage in this sort of trade, they are promoting a very interesting landscape via Fed policy. At zero interest rates, the spread is just not there for the bank&#8217;s to make certain types of loans or to take off the top of savings accounts and checking accounts, so the business model seems to be large proprietary bets and banking products that target fees instead of yield spread maintained by the bank(one big example here is prepaid debit cards which carry huge monthly fees).</p>
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		<title>By: TFF</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/10/jp-morgan-when-basis-trades-blow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-38890</link>
		<dc:creator>TFF</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 09:44:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13930#comment-38890</guid>
		<description>No, arfur, if the last five years have taught us anything, it is the role of underlings. The boss always wins. When things go well, he gets a huge bonus. When things go bad, he gets a bigger bonus for his efforts in repairing the problems.

He&#039;ll line up a few scapegoats and boot them off the bridge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, arfur, if the last five years have taught us anything, it is the role of underlings. The boss always wins. When things go well, he gets a huge bonus. When things go bad, he gets a bigger bonus for his efforts in repairing the problems.</p>
<p>He&#8217;ll line up a few scapegoats and boot them off the bridge.</p>
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		<title>By: arfur11</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/10/jp-morgan-when-basis-trades-blow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-38889</link>
		<dc:creator>arfur11</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 07:54:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13930#comment-38889</guid>
		<description>Some people will lose their jobs?,as boss let him lose his,after all when things go well he gets a huge bonus,perhaps when they dont,the head goes as well.
After all the buck stops there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some people will lose their jobs?,as boss let him lose his,after all when things go well he gets a huge bonus,perhaps when they dont,the head goes as well.<br />
After all the buck stops there.</p>
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		<title>By: Maruzik</title>
		<link>http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/10/jp-morgan-when-basis-trades-blow-up/comment-page-1/#comment-38887</link>
		<dc:creator>Maruzik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 May 2012 05:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=13930#comment-38887</guid>
		<description>SCHADENFREUDE...</description>
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