Comments on: How Europe can force Greece to exit the euro http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/14/how-europe-can-force-greece-to-exit-the-euro/ A slice of lime in the soda Sun, 26 Oct 2014 19:05:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: traduceri daneza http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/14/how-europe-can-force-greece-to-exit-the-euro/comment-page-1/#comment-55026 Tue, 14 Oct 2014 09:57:10 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=14002#comment-55026 louis vuitton shoesATlouis vuitton handbagsEOlouis vuitton outlet onlineDPlouis vuitton handbags outletBOlouis vuitton handbagsBOlouis vuitton shoesARlouis vuitton outlet onlineGTlouis vuitton pursesESlouis vuitton outletFSlouis vuitton handbagsDOOakley GlassesESOakley GlassesATOakley Prescription GlassesFQOakley Sunglasses OutletBPOakley SunglassesBOOakley Sunglasses ChGTOakley SunglassesEQOakley Sunglasses OutletBWCheap Oakley SunglassesCROakley GlassesAScheap oakley sunglassesFQoakley holbrookBRoakley sunglassesEToakley holbrookEWoakley sunglasses cheapFOoakley outletGToakley glassesCWoakley sunglassesCOoakley outletGWoakley sunglassesCRmichael kors walletERmichael kors outlet onlineFTmichael kors outlet onlineDQmichael kors hamiltonETmichael kors walletDTmichael kors iphone caseCSmichael kors walletEWmichael kors hamiltonCRmichael kors handbags outletEWmichael kors outletGTMichael Kors PursesETMichael Kors HandbagsCRMichael Kors PurseCQMichael Kors Handbags OutletDOMichael Kors HamiltonBSMichael Kors PurseEWMichael Kors OutletGSMichael Kors HandbagsAQMichael Kors HandbagsGQMichael Kors OutletBOLouis Vuitton ShoesAOLouis Vuitton Official WebsiteDWLouis Vuitton Outlet OnlineGQLouis Vuitton Outlet OnlineGQLouis Vuitton BagsDOLouis Vuitton SunglassesEQLouis Vuitton OutletFQLouis Vuitton BeltDQLouis Vuitton OutletEWLouis Vuitton BagsCONike Lebron 11CWNike Lebron 11FPLebron 11AQLebron 11BPCheap Lebron 11ESCheap Lebron 11EWLebron 9FQLebron 11 ShoesDWCheap Lebron 11FSfoamposites yeezysATfoamposites yeezysGWnike foamposites yeezysBWfoamposites yeezy 2014DWfoamposites yeezys for saleFTfoamposites yeezyBRfoamposites yeezys for saleDRyeezy foampositesFSnike foampositesDSfoamposites yeezysGS

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By: JayCM http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/14/how-europe-can-force-greece-to-exit-the-euro/comment-page-1/#comment-39166 Thu, 17 May 2012 21:41:28 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=14002#comment-39166 Handleym said The way you overcome this mismatch is either you grow your productivity to German levels, or you live at Serbian levels. Greece can choose which of those two paths it wants to follow, but choose it must.

That’s the 30,000 foot, very-long-term view. The nearer term view is that they’re going to see a decline in living standards to near-Serbian levels. Declining wages are much easier to handle if inflation does the work, reducing the value of the currency, than if deflation does the work, reducing nominal wages.* Now, we’re talking about how to arrange things so that inflation can do as much of the work as possible.

BTW, I’d include the EU and its banks as “villains” in Greece, or at least not completely innocent. The banks wrote billions in unsound loans to Greece because they thought the EU would ultimately have to guarantee them. If not for that, the Greeks would not have been able to run up these debts.

* This is because 1) inflation reduces debts along with income, and 2) money illusion prevents prices from falling smoothly.

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By: handleym http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/14/how-europe-can-force-greece-to-exit-the-euro/comment-page-1/#comment-39124 Wed, 16 May 2012 21:13:06 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=14002#comment-39124 ” If Greece adopts a currency (VD, as per Ken’s earlier post) and pays its civil servants in it, and the value of those paychecks fall dramatically, the civil servants get screwed via starvation wages. ”

The situation is not as dire as you claim. If Greece becomes as poor as Serbia, they’re still doing pretty well compared to most of the world.

The real problem, as repeatedly pointed out by AdrianBunk, is that Greece wants to live a German lifestyle on Serbian levels of productivity. This is SIMPLY NOT POSSIBLE in the long term — and it has nothing to do with banks, the rest of the EU, or anyone else. Those villains are, yes, relevant to Italy, Ireland, Spain, Portugal — but not to Greece.

The way you overcome this mismatch is either you grow your productivity to German levels, or you live at Serbian levels. Greece can choose which of those two paths it wants to follow, but choose it must.

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By: JayCM http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/14/how-europe-can-force-greece-to-exit-the-euro/comment-page-1/#comment-39119 Wed, 16 May 2012 20:30:08 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=14002#comment-39119 @TFF: Greece isn’t self-sufficient in food, energy, or medicine. Food and fuel costs are set by global markets, more or less (medicine costs are more complicated). If Greece adopts a currency (VD, as per Ken’s earlier post) and pays its civil servants in it, and the value of those paychecks fall dramatically, the civil servants get screwed via starvation wages. In most countries where the civil service is badly underpaid, they quickly find ways to make ends meet by corruption and outright theft.

Maybe this is the least bad option, but it’s pretty bad.

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By: seymourfrogs http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/14/how-europe-can-force-greece-to-exit-the-euro/comment-page-1/#comment-39094 Wed, 16 May 2012 15:17:16 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=14002#comment-39094 My heart says Let them go, but my head says There’s still a way to keep the ship afloat.

But I am staggered at their brinksmanship instead of statesmanship. (Lots of ships here!).

It’s having an honest fiscal policy which is ignored by the Greeks. So you define jobs, licence them, eg a cafe owner pays X, a doctor pays Y etc. Match names to licence payment (jail for miscreants) and have money coming in to the Treasury. It’s a sort of tax but is collected, not evaded.

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By: AdrianBunk http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/14/how-europe-can-force-greece-to-exit-the-euro/comment-page-1/#comment-39093 Wed, 16 May 2012 15:13:18 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=14002#comment-39093 @trevorh

When you wrote “convincing Greece to stay in the Euro” that was completely misleading since they do want that anyway.

The Greek people has two clear choices now, and it will democratically decide which one of them to choose.

The rest of us in the Eurozone is completely fed up with Greece and definitely not willing to comprimise on what the democratically elected Greek government has signed. There will not be any new negotiations if Tsipras wins the election, it is clear that if he gets elected and doesn’t suddenly change his mind Greece will be thrown out of the Eurozone.

Greek has longstanding debt and corruption and competivity problems. The way Goldman Sachs “helped” Greece at one point is not good, but when looking at the whole picture this is an irrelvant detail

Even though Goldman Sachs is to blame for many bad things they’ve done, the problems of Greece are not the fault of Goldman Sachs (or any other banks).

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