Comments on: Eduardo Saverin joins the stateless billionaires http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/17/eduardo-saverin-joins-the-stateless-billionaires/ A slice of lime in the soda Sun, 26 Oct 2014 19:05:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: MikhailBenoit http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/17/eduardo-saverin-joins-the-stateless-billionaires/comment-page-1/#comment-43253 Tue, 18 Sep 2012 23:19:56 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=14177#comment-43253 There is no reason for the US Government or other Americans to throw their tantrum on the people willingly renouncing their citizenship. We make those problems to happen. We allow people voluntarily renounce their citizenship. In order to prevent this craziness we have to change the law or join 1954 UN Convention Relating to the Status of Statelessness. Eduardo Saverin had double citizenship and by law he had rights to renounce one of his citizenship. But when we have person who does not posses another nationality and by allowing him to renounce US citizenship, we leave him in limbo, which means we promote statelessness, and that is human rights issue. Person who does not posses any other nationality or residency status from another nation should not be allowed to renounce his citizenship in voluntary basis. Period.

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By: LBK2 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/17/eduardo-saverin-joins-the-stateless-billionaires/comment-page-1/#comment-39457 Thu, 24 May 2012 17:41:29 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=14177#comment-39457 Cardinalrules has it correct.

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By: JP007 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/17/eduardo-saverin-joins-the-stateless-billionaires/comment-page-1/#comment-39326 Tue, 22 May 2012 00:51:21 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=14177#comment-39326 First grain of salt applied to Felix’s opinion’ Felix if your not a US Citizen you are a hypocrite at the least.

Second; Says Felix “From a public-policy perspective, this is the kind of US exceptionalism I can get behind.” Need you be reminded that this type of envy of wealth and comments such as this is how Hitler got started. This anti-rich shtick is the first wave of a history repeat.

Thirdly; The IRS laws on this matter violate most every international treaty on the matter, but even the rich cannot afford to litigate it. That should make Felix more comfortable about the police state the US has become.

Fourth; To bring up the Jewish treatment again, remember when (in the 1940s to 1970s, most likely before you were born Felix) the USSR confiscated (ala Charles Schumer) almost all the Jews property when they wanted to leave the country and the West ridiculed this endlessly?

To use a medical analogy here, you are dwelling on the symptoms rather than the disease Felix. Please wake up before you write. Also envy is never pretty.

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By: TFF http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/17/eduardo-saverin-joins-the-stateless-billionaires/comment-page-1/#comment-39232 Sat, 19 May 2012 10:38:27 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=14177#comment-39232 “generally insane US tax code”

I would gladly vote for a Presidential candidate who promised to cut the tax code, even if the dollars I pay end up increasing. I’m more sophisticated financially than most, and even so have trouble answering even simple tax questions at this point. Guess, file, and pray you aren’t audited…

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By: Frwip http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/17/eduardo-saverin-joins-the-stateless-billionaires/comment-page-1/#comment-39230 Sat, 19 May 2012 01:30:32 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=14177#comment-39230 @ckm5

Very nice bragging about loopholes that will keep your taxes below 20%, but that’s actually the nub of the problem.

Setty puts it right. It’s not even about the money. The problem is that the generally insane US tax code is absolutely odious towards US citizens living abroad and also to foreign residents living in the US but who have assets abroad. The cost of compliance is staggering, even for something as trivial as a bank account and the laws are so arbitrary and poorly written you can never know for sure you’re actually compliant. And that’s not a small problem. The penalties for non-compliance are extremely high. Because of Congress’ obsessions with “offshore tax cheats” and ever more draconian laws, even trivial errors or oversights on mere matters of a few dollars can expose you to penalties of tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars.

As usual, the ones getting scr*wed are neither billionaires nor poor immigrants but the broad middle who can’t pay for top notch accountants and international taxation specialists. And even the supposedly top notch accountants are oftentimes completely at sea. I’ve had the experience multiple times with reputable firms.

By the way, the Schumer-Casey proposal is probably self-defeating. By barring former citizens from traveling back to the US, he’s giving away the only carrot that prevents renouncing citizens from going ‘feral’, simply dropping off the radar without formally renouncing their citizenship.

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By: mfw13 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/17/eduardo-saverin-joins-the-stateless-billionaires/comment-page-1/#comment-39228 Sat, 19 May 2012 01:00:53 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=14177#comment-39228 I’ll add to Setty’s comments by noting that the “market” for US citizenship is drying up.

I’m an expat currently living in Beijing, and I can tell you that most Chinese talking about acquiring foreign citizenship are now talking about acquiring Canadian, British, or Australian citizenship, not US citizenship.

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By: Setty http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/17/eduardo-saverin-joins-the-stateless-billionaires/comment-page-1/#comment-39222 Fri, 18 May 2012 23:23:12 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=14177#comment-39222 If the onerous US tax rules applied only to billionaires, that would be fine. But the fact is they apply to any old schmuck — such as me, living here in Chile. The surge in renunciations by US citizens abroad isn’t primarily by billionaires. It’s by people like me, who have another citizenship, and are tired of having a status that is more cost than benefit.

As my father put it in his letter renouncing citizenship, it’s about the costs and benefits. What is the benefit of being a US citizen in Canada or Chile or the UK or just about anywhere? I like the US well enough, some of my best friends are Americans. But being a US citizen gets me what? Absurd stress if I want to travel to Cuba. Hours spent filing US taxes on income earned from a UK company while I’m living in Chile. I don’t even get free passage into the US. The last time I entered, I was interrogated as much as any European tourist, with the border guard even asking whom I planned to visit in the US, and threatening to detain me when I asserted my right not to answer. US consulates overseas are inaccessible fortresses that treat every citizen as a prospective terrorist — other embassies don’t make us leave our phones outside. If being a US is all cost, with no benefit, who can blame people for renouncing?

Long term, I think the US is going to suffer far more than Severin from this policy of claiming worldwide power over citizens. And countries like Chile, which make immigration a breeze, will benefit.

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By: JLRII http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/17/eduardo-saverin-joins-the-stateless-billionaires/comment-page-1/#comment-39220 Fri, 18 May 2012 19:35:53 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=14177#comment-39220 If this guy was not rich, would anyone care? I glean from the story that he was rich when he moved here. Did anyone care then? As I understand the facts, he was cashed out of FB when he won his lawsuit–so he is not making his money from the IPO. If that is the case, then he paid his taxes on income earned in the US. If someone does not want to avail themselves of the benefits of living in, or having the option to live, in the US, then why do we bother caring about that person to begin with? I think Saverin is foolish, but I think that people getting agitated about his foolishness is a waste of energy. Do not give this fool anymore media coverage

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By: majkmushrm http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/17/eduardo-saverin-joins-the-stateless-billionaires/comment-page-1/#comment-39215 Fri, 18 May 2012 15:38:10 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=14177#comment-39215 First of all, he’s not stateless.
Second of all, he was (stress past tense) a naturalized, not native US citizen.
Third of all, how, precisely, does the US propose to collect the fines/taxes/etc from expats who renounce their citizenship if they have no US based assets? Most countries aren’t going to freeze the assets of their citizens at the behest of the USG just because the USG is pissed that they renounced their citizenship.
Finally, the USG doesn’t do diddlysquat for US citizens abroad. Been there. Done that.

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By: krimsonpage http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/05/17/eduardo-saverin-joins-the-stateless-billionaires/comment-page-1/#comment-39214 Fri, 18 May 2012 14:39:55 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=14177#comment-39214 Good one, Felix!

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