Comments on: Counterparties: How not to fix Medicare http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/12/11/counterparties-how-not-to-fix-medicare/ A slice of lime in the soda Sun, 26 Oct 2014 19:05:02 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=4.2.5 By: Auros http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/12/11/counterparties-how-not-to-fix-medicare/comment-page-1/#comment-45207 Fri, 14 Dec 2012 17:38:18 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=19787#comment-45207 “We provide a huge amount of assistance for the less well off in this country and any of them who really wanted to and were committed to improving their lot and life could.”

Which country is this that you live in? I will have to suggest to Americans who are unlucky enough to get sick, miss some work because of it, lose their job and insurance, then die b/c without a job they can’t afford healthcare, that they should move there. Your country sounds much nicer.

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By: QCIC http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/12/11/counterparties-how-not-to-fix-medicare/comment-page-1/#comment-45151 Wed, 12 Dec 2012 20:08:37 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=19787#comment-45151 dWj-

Couldn’t agree more, and while I have sympathies with the libertarians, I often think they make fools of themselves.

But nothing makes me more sympathetic to them then when you hear the cry go up for the poor souls who don’t want to or cannot work.

A) Almost no one wants to do whatever it is they do for money. Most people have some hobbies or other interests they would rather pursue if they could get paid for them or didn’t have to work.

B) While I feel sorry about the lack of life skills and institutionalized barriers a lot of low income people face, the basic fact of the matter is a lot of them are not hard working and don’t have many economically useful skills. It is all well and good to say “oh being an airport greeter for $8/hr is a hard job and Bob the Banker couldn’t do it”. But in my experience Bob the banker could do it really well and the person who does do is just as often a horrible employee as a diligent one.

We provide a huge amount of assistance for the less well off in this country and any of them who really wanted to and were committed to improving their lot and life could. That is the tricky thing about equality of opportunity.

Liberals say “see poor parents ending up raising kids who are poor so their is no equality of opportunity”. And in some sense they are right. But in another sense the problem is that poor parents raise lazy ineffectual workers and that is why their kids typically stay poor.

In generally I still fall on the liberal side politically, but the older I get and the more interaction I have with the lower class the less sympathy I have for fixing all their problems with handouts.

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By: QCIC http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/12/11/counterparties-how-not-to-fix-medicare/comment-page-1/#comment-45150 Wed, 12 Dec 2012 19:56:08 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=19787#comment-45150 “$5.7 billion in 2014, but would increase total health care costs by $11.4 billion, ”

It almost certainly would NOT do this. Part of the reason non-medicare healthcare costs are high is subsidize the medicare patients, so by taking patients out of medicare costs would likely go down.

On top of that while I am in favor of single payer (basically medicare for everyone), if we are going to have “healthcare for the old who are unable to work”, it only makes sense to raise the age as people are healthier and more able to work and jobs become less physically strenuous, and more amenable to e-commuting.

There is no reason we cannot ask the 65 and 66 year olds of today to perform like the 63 and 64 year olds of 1980.

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By: TFF17 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/12/11/counterparties-how-not-to-fix-medicare/comment-page-1/#comment-45141 Wed, 12 Dec 2012 14:26:52 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=19787#comment-45141 Excellent comments, y2kurtus!

The questions over who should be eligible for Medicare when obscures the real problem — health care is more expensive here than anywhere else in the world. And as bean-counters take charge, that will translate into reduced quality of care.

If it is true that shifting the burden from government to employers doubles the cost, then a single-payer system is obviously the way to go. It is a “tax” on business operations either way you pay for it, so employers would surely prefer the cheaper path.

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By: y2kurtus http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/12/11/counterparties-how-not-to-fix-medicare/comment-page-1/#comment-45140 Wed, 12 Dec 2012 04:19:59 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=19787#comment-45140 We WILL have a single payer system in the US by 2020. That is not avoidable mathematically. Companies are already splitting full-time benefited positions into 2 or 3 part-time non-benefited positions. The large majority of non-owner employees at small businesses carry no insurance.

At my small-friendly-profitable-traditional-mu tually-owned bank family health insurance alone is worth 50% as much as an entry level salary.

What we will need to accept is healthcare will not be any more equal than the housing stock we allocate, the cars we chose or chose not to drive, or the quality of food we eat.

The idea that a 70 year old non-working poor person should be eligible for EXACTLY the same government provided benefit as a 18 year old working poor person is a quaint notion which makes zero sense for society at large. The idea that a high earning worker will get EXACTLY the same level and quality of care as a low wage worker is equally non-nonsensical.

ALL government paid health benefits will continue to morph into a high return on investment system. For example every government dollar spent on flu shots saves 10 in costs. At the other end of the spectrum would be the $100 the government routinely spends for every hours of additional life provided by intensive end of life “care.” In that worse case scenario our return on investment is much worse than a total loss. There we “invest $100 to keep someone alive another hour and what do we get… nothing but the bill for the next hour.

The government can provide dignity, comfort and, compassion for 1/2 of what we spend today… but to do it we need people to see the truth.

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By: dWj http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/12/11/counterparties-how-not-to-fix-medicare/comment-page-1/#comment-45139 Wed, 12 Dec 2012 03:01:11 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=19787#comment-45139 “Ezra Klein wonders if policymakers have “a kind of elite blindness” to the idea that some people — poorer people, especially — don’t like to work.”

What’s the stupidest thing I’ve read today? I’m grading papers, so it’s still close, but I’m going with this. Almost everybody takes for granted that most people, if they don’t hate to work, at least would prefer something other than what they do for money if money weren’t necessary. It is the people who complain “I don’t like to work; you should pay for my living expenses so I don’t have to” who earn the most contempt from people who do jobs, even jobs they sometimes or usually find fulfilling or otherwise enjoyable, to earn their living expenses and the taxes that get taken out by these cretins who think “I don’t like to work” is a reason to enslave the rest of us.

That’s right, as I get angrier and angrier I start echoing the libertarian extremist rhetoric I read on my social media. I’d better stop now before I start trying to quote Ayn Rand.

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By: upstater http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/2012/12/11/counterparties-how-not-to-fix-medicare/comment-page-1/#comment-45138 Tue, 11 Dec 2012 22:50:16 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmon/?p=19787#comment-45138 “Government spending on medical expenditures outstripped revenues by $775 billion, which represents 58% of the 2011 Federal deficit,” Robert Dittmar calculated.

I think $775B is darned close to what the pigs-at-the-trough at the Pentagon consume each year. Add in DHS, “Intelligence”, military “assistance” at State and you easily push $1T.

Certainly health costs need to be managed. Single payer would do that. Why don’t these supposed “wonks” look for fat pigs to slay and advocate single payer? Why not thow in Eisenhower income tax rates, indexed to inflation and taxing capital gains and carried intrest as ordinary income while we’re at it…

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