INTERVIEW: U.S. Fed’s culture focus will take more dialogue with banks – Wells Fargo’s Callahan

December 4, 2014

Patricia Callahan is the Chief Administrative Officer for Wells Fargo, responsible for corporate communication and government relations among her numerous duties. A 36-year veteran of the company, Callahan has served as head of Compliance and Enterprise Risk Management, providing regulatory compliance oversight for the company. She spoke recently with Thomson Reuters about banking culture, what it means for Wells Fargo, and how the Federal Reserve might assess culture in its supervisory review process.

Q- In your own institution culture is, and has been, a huge issue. The company’s “Vision and Values” document outlines the bank’s culture and values in impressive detail, but the question I have is how do you instill culture in practice?

A – We’ve been at this for a long time and the messages have been consistent. If there is one thing that I know about culture is that if you want people to know what to expect of them you have say it a lot, and it has to be consistent, and it has to be believed and understood at all levels in the company.

It’s not the kind of thing that the CEO does alone, although the CEO is very important in this – in carrying the message. So, we have had this practice of living our values, and the “Vision and Values” statement, and all the programs that will emerge from that. And because we’ve been at it a long time, we’ve been learning new and more ways to communicate about it than when we weren’t quite as big as we are today.

But the main message is that we’re in business for our customers. Our customers need to be successful if we’re going to be successful. And that message is the one that’s out there in front — that this is a business about customers.

Q – This is another part of the debate. The criticism being that among larger institutions there is today two ways to look at your customer. You can look at them as a counterparty, which the New York Federal Reserve bank believes has been the case for many large firms. Or you could look at them as a client. But if you look at them as a counterparty you view them as a trading opportunity.

A – But that is really not true at Wells Fargo. Part of that is a different business model. We do a lot of business with consumers where clearly they are customers. . . But we are also very big in commercial banking. The goal of our commercial business is to be the banker to the company whether it’s a small business or a Fortune 500 business, and that includes making loans for working capital purposes, for acquisition purposes, for asset backed lending so that they can finance their receivables, etc. But it’s centered on the relationship and the customer.

When you are thinking about your client as a relationship you bring other parties to the table because they need to be successful for the client in the company. So if the forex group makes a lot of money, but the company doesn’t make a lot of money and the customer doesn’t succeed, then that doesn’t do anybody any good.

No group is going to be successful by themselves. The way we operate and our business model require that all of our businesses are successful with our customers.

Q – Now obviously that’s not to say that Wells Fargo hasn’t run into some problems. And the problems have largely focused on the mortgage business. Tell us about those episodes: how were they dealt with internally? How did it affect culture? How did they come about, if you have this strong culture? Was there a failing somewhere?

A – First of all, we are a very large mortgage provider. We obviously have had our share of issues, partly by virtue of the fact that we provided so much mortgage service. We made loans and also acquired and serviced portfolios of loans that others made. There were certainly mistakes made, but there were also mistakes avoided.

For example, Wells Fargo never made a negative amortization loan. We didn’t make any because we knew that wouldn’t be good for our customers. We made a deliberate decision to give up market share when negative amortization loans were all the rage. Now, we own the Pick-A-Pay portfolio, which were the original adjustment rate mortgages with negative amortization, but those loans were originated at Golden West Financial, which was acquired by Wachovia, and then we acquired that portfolio with Wachovia in 2008.

But we did avoid even in mortgages some of the bigger mistakes. We did not have the kind of depth of bad loans that some of the other mortgage providers had. Now, that doesn’t mean that we did everything right. It doesn’t mean that we didn’t have some loans that we certainly shouldn’t have made. And I would say for every mistake that was made there, it has been a misery for the company.

There have been a lot of lessons learned from that period, hopefully never to be repeated.

Q – Let me ask you about employee loyalty, since this is another issue raised by the New York Fed. Certainly for any of us who have been in this business for a while we know that working for a large financial institution has its own risks in terms of future employment. A lot of people in the industry these days do feel they need to be out for themselves. They need to manage their own careers. Their feeling is that I could be let go at the drop of hat if things turn for the company without any personal contribution to that outcome. What are your thoughts?

A – I would say again that it’s a little bit different here. That doesn’t mean we never lay anyone off, we clearly do. When the mortgage applications have gone down with the refinance boom ending we have had areas of the company where we’ve let go staff. But Wells is not a big ‘hire and fire’ place. I’ll give you an example of our mergers. At the time of the Wachovia merger, I think there was an expectation in Charlotte (North Carolina) that the staff there would be slashed. Well, there are as many employees in Charlotte today as there were at the time the merger happened. Because what good does it do to acquire a company and lose all of its talent?

We don’t have as much increasing and decreasing of staff as I think a trading operation does. And with respect to the debate about tribe loyalty to a certain area versus company loyalty, what I said about relationships versus transactions, leads you into a more company mind set.

We survey every employee in this company every year to see how they are feeling. And we’ve been doing that not for three years, or five years, or eight years, but for at least twenty years. Every one, whether it’s a foreign exchange sales person, or whether it’s a teller, gets the survey and is asked about engagement and how they feel about things.

We then have a practice of action planning for every business unit, all the way from a branch in retail, or a loan production unit in New York for commercial banking, to talk about how to make their workplace better. . . I think the nature of the company means some of those things are different as well.

We have a survey response rate of 93% across the company. And one of the questions we always ask is whether you believe we are following up on this survey.

Q – What are your expectations in terms of how regulators will be viewing culture and using it in the supervisory process?

A – One thing is that it seems to me that when they think about culture they are thinking about compensation, mostly. A recent paper by the Financial Supervisory Board talked about the supervision of “risk culture” — about dotting your i’s and crossing your t’s and documentation. The word customer is never mentioned. I think it’s going to be a situation where we will have to have a lot of conversation with our regulators about what they are actually looking for.

Certainly compensation is important. And how people get paid does send a message. We have been working with the Fed for several years now on compensation plans and making sure that all of our plans are balanced in the way that they want to see them balanced.

People actually do what you pay them for. So you have to be careful when you build compensation plans in what you ask them to do. . . You need to make sure that you are compensating them for all the things you want them to do and not just one thing. Compensation is one of the things we can expect (the Fed) to look at even more. They believe heavily in deferring compensation for higher paid employees, certainly for anyone who is working on any kind of complicated transactions. That’s fine, and we already do that. For senior management a lot of the pay is based on long-term compensation in stock. Whether they want us to continue to do that or not we will have to see.

I’m sure they will spend more time on compensation. And I think they think about culture as a matter of risk management. And it is, but that’s not where it starts in my opinion. So I’m hoping that they are open to the possibility that it starts somewhere else, and how you think about the customer and not just how you detailed your compliance policies. All those policies don’t mean anything if people are making the wrong decisions when they come to work in the morning.

Q – One of the concerns expressed is that if culture is now part of the supervisory review the Fed might take an approach that does not take into account the idiosyncrasies of various institutions.

A – I think that would be a mistake. Different firms have different business models to begin with. So you’ve got to have a different way of operating. What we say to our employees might not work at a pure investment bank. Because a lot of what we say – well, we’re a little hokey here.

And some of that comes from the fact that our roots are community bank based. Even though we are very big, what we say to our employees and how we deliver it – that might not work in another kind of company.

(This article was produced by the Compliance Complete service of Thomson Reuters Accelus. Compliance Complete provides a single source for regulatory news, analysis, rules and developments, with global coverage of more than 400 regulators and exchanges. Follow Accelus compliance news on Twitter: @GRC_Accelus)

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The new Zune browser is surprisingly good, but not as good as the iPod’s. It works well, but isn’t as fast as Safari, and has a clunkier interface. If you occasionally plan on using the web browser that’s not an issue, but if you’re planning to browse the web alot from your PMP then the iPod’s larger screen and better browser may be important.

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Hands down, Apple’s app store wins by a mile. It’s a huge selection of all sorts of apps vs a rather sad selection of a handful for Zune. Microsoft has plans, especially in the realm of games, but I’m not sure I’d want to bet on the future if this aspect is important to you. The iPod is a much better choice in that case.

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