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This Health Care Bill is nothing more than political anarchy with corruption from buying congressional votes that renders the U.S. Constitution for government of the people by the people totally dead.
There is nothing unconstitutional about passing a health care bill, anymore than Social Security or Medicare are unconstitutional. The bill sucks, I admit, thanks to the GOP who did everything they could to keep out a robust public option and who are so in the pocket of big pharma and the insurers that any talk of putting a single payer system in place, like every other modern industrialized country has, is met with cynical rants about the end of the Republic. The truth is that many in the Tea-party and Patriot movements have been duped by corporate special interests into railing against reforms that would improve the quality of life for the vast majority of Americans.
would reuters provide us all a scheme that explains the year US cost of private insurance system and level of coverage before and expected after the bill?
I think this would help us to unterstand better the matter, as from other sources it appears USA spend each year about 16% of GDP on medicals with much less coverage than in Europe, whose year cost for medical cover to entire population cost as much as about half.
I find it interesting reading these comments especially the first one, as well as reading or hearing about the visceral attacks from the right in the US against the health care reform, something that as an European is hard to understand. We take free health care for all for granted, we don’t mind paying a bit more in taxes to allow the less fortunate to have their dignity preserved when they are more vulnerable. That is real wealth redistribution,what vould be the problem investing in the health of a nation, is it a great deal more than investing in wars? Is it less commendable? I would like to know.
morty62 is right: there is nothing at all unconstitutional about passing a health care reform bill. I wish the bill would be a single payer system health care bill, but it looks like America will have to inch toward modernity by accepting the one on the table. Perhaps someday we’ll have a European-styled health care system. That would certainly be better for Americans and our economy.
I’m not sure I agree with morty62’s statement that many in the Tea-party and Patriot movements have been “duped by corporate special interests into railing against reforms.” I think many have been looking for a reason to derail President Obama’s legitamcy; health care reform and parroting big pharma is what those movements have latched onto in order to try to accomplish that.
Spending billions of dollars on American health care seems economically smart and caring. Imagine how much better it would be for American businesses in terms of global competitiveness if they weren’t so saddled with employee health care costs. American health care reform that helps that masses is certainly smarter and more caring that the billions America has spent on the invasion of Iraq. Where were all the Tea Party protesters’ and Patriot movement folks’ complaints about the national debt when the previous administration was diving us deeper into debt for a morally corrupt war effort?
“….and what do you get?
another day older and deeper in debt…”
Here come higher taxes and high inflation*
*Technically speaking: Stagflation
This bill is a classic case of the way that areas of business and society move towards a “less bad” system, we have seen it in many industries and we will see it again.
The bigger issue here is the passing of banking rules that dismantle that criminal enterprise so that we can get back to real business.
The Republicans need to get a clue and start doing something, this bill is going to give a lot of people peace of mind that will be expressed at the voting places this fall, if they continue to block bank reforms they may crash their party once and for all.
Both of these graphs mean absolutely nothing. I would be inclined to believe they’re both just made up or guesstimates to the point they’re useless. Graph 1: 2019: we’re going to be UNDER $200 billion THEN when Medicare/Medicaid is so far OVER it now with MUCH LESS people? Yeah, right. Graph 2: the number of uninsured means exactly what? The COST for WHOEVER is insured is the point. And, the cost-per-person is going down because more people are on it? Prove that w/ Medicare/Medicaid historical numbers? Costs have gone up as more have been enrolled.
“…we don’t mind paying a bit more in taxes to allow the less fortunate to have their dignity preserved when they are more vulnerable. That is real wealth redistribution…”
The US isn’t Europe and thank God too. What was it said..?… that America is/was the envy of all nations? Wonder why that was? European history is filled with “success stories” of economic awesomeness. How’s that Euro thing working out for Greece? How are those unemployment rates?
I wasn’t aware that our aim is to have “wealth redistribution?” Is THAT the goal…??? If so…I’m quitting my job so that someone else can preserve my dignity! Heck, let’s see, all the NBA, NFL, Music, and Film stars can easily pony up! Then there’s the top 10 politicians – the majority of which represent a certain political party that’s all about “the people.” Then, there are the Union bosses, the CEO’s….jeez…I’m officially on permanent vacation starting now! Why work hard or even work at all if someone else’s dedication and hard labor will be used to preserve my dignity?!
And what the heck are you doing spending time reading this message? You need to be out there working to give me what’s due to ME
If government insurance is so bad why haven’t the politicians dropped theirs? You realize the politicians that beat the single payer healthcare (public option) out if this bill get this horrible good-for-nothing death-panel insurance … for life!
Let’s get the bill done! Great news for every American. Not perfect but a HUGE step forwards. Finally we enter the 21st Century.
REUTERS: A three-day strike by many of British Airways’ cabin crews will go ahead after union talks with management collapsed, leaving the ruling Labour government with a major headache weeks before a general election.
(Reuters) – The European Union is considering making banks pay for an emergency wind-up fund in case one of them goes bust, in an effort to prevent another spiral like the one that followed the Lehman Brothers collapse.
(Reuters) – The European Union’s monetary affairs chief urged the bloc’s leaders on Friday to agree a standby aid package for Greece next week but France and Germany struck different notes and the euro slid.
(Reuters) – German prosecutors have launched 1,100 tax evasion probes against clients of Swiss bank Credit Suisse and are investigating bank staff on suspicion of aiding evasion, authorities in Duesseldorf said on Friday.
Hot damn…it really DOES look like things in Europe are better than here. Must be all the wealth redistribution.
“We have to be very careful that the potential of President Obama’s presidency not be destroyed by this debate,” said Dennis Kucinich
“The Obama presidency will be crippled if this bill doesn’t pass,” said William Galston, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution.
I’m convinced then, THIS “bill” must pass – who cares what’s in it or if it works.
Victory at all costs…or should that be, at our cost?
Chazz, why don’t you try that permanent vacation and tell me how that works out for you. Show the world how envious they should be of the less fortunate in America, since they have it so good.
Health care is a simple equasion. We are currently at 16% of GDP for health care, meaning we spend 16% of our money on it. Ten years ago it was under 10%…so ten years from now it’s tracking to be over 25% of our income. This month, my healthcare premiums + employer contribution + medicare insurance + copays (my total medical bill) is now more than my mortgage. Can’t wait to see that bill next year (do nothing), or how to fix it ‘incrementally’. Maybe we will all quit our jobs when our healthcare gets too expensive to keep working.
I had to ‘downsize’ an employee who had MS…it was quite a sobering conversation, as she explained that this was a pre-existing condition…loss of her job had fast-tracked her to medical bankruptcy because she can’t afford private market insurance.
ps…Germany’s job creation rate is nearly twice that of the US last quarter…how bout those rates?
Some folks seem to have this extreme irrational fear of our government like its some entity that’s designed to ruin your life every time you don’t get the person you want in office.
Our government is by the people, for the people. You can vote for a new “government” every four and two years if you don’t like it, you can even run for office and get elected so you can “be the government” if you like. A bit of advice though, you better do what everyone in the country wants or else they will think “the government”, you, is out to ruin their life and wish they had voted for the “other government”, er guy, who promised to keep “the government”, you, from ruining their life!?!??
Excellent reply. You know – I got it…I understand the 16% GDP thing and it’s meaning. I also understand the history. Ten years ago bread, gas, electricity, and a bunch of other stuff cost less than it does today. Same stuff, but it costs more…but Health Care today isn’t the same Heath Care product of ten years ago.
Listen – I’m FULLY on-board with the idea that our present state of health care is broken and it needs to be fixed. What I’m not on board with is the idea that the ONLY way it can be fixed is to create a new system, run by the government to “fix it.”
You see… I’m not as smart as you or as trusting. I don’t believe that the upstanding people who represent “us” in Washington can run a program that – as you so clearly point out – is 16% of our GDP. I’m trying very hard to remember any government run program that lived up to the promises made when they were enacted. LBJ’s Medicare really has delivered, hasn’t it? That cash for clunkers gig – there’s a poster for success. I had a LOT of time thinking about it while standing in line at the Post Office on Mass avenue here in Washington DC. It’s the Post Office next to Union Station, only a couple of blocks from the Capitol. Yup – LOTS of time to stand there, in the never ending line of no less than 30 people that stretched out the door because only three workers were manning the 10 windows. (To be fair, only two of the three were working – One could have been on break and though sitting there doing nothing, she made no effort to help anyone.) Unfortunately, with all that time I couldn’t come up with any real success stories. But HEY, come to think of it – that’s another thing that’s gone up! – the price of stamps. It’s really helped the Postal Service run more efficiently.
Mike, Mike, Mike…I DO believe the time has come for health care reform but…Instead of fixing the problems we ALL know are there, this “bill” is designed to create a new identity. EVERYONE has agreed that there are some clear – NECESSARY fixes that can be done right now (actually, could have been quickly done a year and-a-half ago) that would make a drastic impact on the system, preventing the tragedies like the one you so kindly related, about the woman you had to layoff…er…”downsize.” Stories run up the flagpole like banners to champion Health Cares ENTIRE overhaul. There’s a lot of wood that needs to be chopped in this country and JOBS ranks right up there…however, for over a year now that necessary need has been ignored in order to completely redraw the Health Care system. If the polls that everyone runs their lives by these days are correct, the majority of American citizens DO NO want that system completely overhauled- a.k.a. this ‘bill’ …not now. They want REFORM and they want JOBS. Seems to me, the people “we” put into office to do “our” bidding should be working on reform, but instead, they stubbornly push ahead against the majority (if the polls are right.) And the arrogance behind it…so my!
IF this “new” Health Care system was so good and so perfect and corrected the problems as is promised – why is it then, that the Democratic majority is having problems shoving it through? Why do they have to resort to obscure parliamentary maneuvers and absurd and clearly unfair deal making? Hell – if something is THIS good it should be able to grow legs and walk itself through the process on it’s own while everyone stands and cheers! Yea!!!!!
If this new Health Care “bill” that you so desperately want to have passed is SOOOOO good, then why are our “leaders” saying, “just pass it and we’ll fix it later?”
So, when I hear someone say we need to redistribute wealth, I think back to my father who came to this country because it promised him the FREEDOM to pursue whatever trade he wanted…to put in as much or as little labor as he deemed necessary…to build the future as good or as bad as HE wanted…and to buy or not buy whatever he did or did not want to buy.
The success and the consequences of the choices HE made fell firmly on HIS shoulders and the thought that someone else should bear the price of any hair-brained scheme was unthinkable…in fact, it wasn’t even a thought. Not so these days – where worlds like “civilized” are used in an attempt to guilt people into a way of being.
My father left EUROPE because the “benefits” I listed were NOT available to him, and I might add, to the countless others who left the awesomeness of Europe behind too. You gotta ask yourself – if Europe, like our “new” Health Care Bill, were sooooooooooooo good…why do people leave it (Europe) and why is the government majority having such a hard time getting Health Care’s awesomeness passed?
One final thought….
If you were to go back and research the duties of the President of the United States and the House and Congress, you’d see the system was set up so the people ran things through their elected representatives. The President is titled, “The Chief Executive,” the definition being this person would “execute the wishes of the people.” The people made their wishes known to the members of the house and senate and the the Pres was supposed to “execute” them.
In those more perfect days, government was supposed to be made up of “citizen-statesmen,” people whose life was engaged in their own businesses, but who took time to “serve the people” for a set term, before going back to the business they really wanted to do.
George Washington did not want to be President – after the war he wanted to return home to quietly work his farm. The country called and he served, but when his time in service of the people was finished, he happily stepped away and returned to “normal” life.
How far we’ve come from that grand idea. Where today we have professional politicians and Presidents who demand their own personal ideology gets passed with or without the consent of the “people.”
It’s no wonder things are so f’k’d up here and in the rest of the world. Citizen statesmen are lawyers whose command of the law can come up with multiple definitions of the word “is.”
You wonder why there’s not tort reform? How can a bunch of lawyers enact laws that will do themselves in? No…the guilty party, your honor, is someone else…let me make my case……
If the President and the leftist Democrats truly cared about what the American
people want, wouldn’t t they allow plenty of time for debate
and filibuster of this bill. As it is – the bill has not even been debated in
the Senate – absolutely unheard of ! Why are they only allowing 72 hours
to read the bill, before voting on it – on a SUNDAY of all things ?
Why all the shady dealing and corrupt maneuvering, if they have nothing
to hide ? Who ever heard of someone passing a bill of this magnitude
without an up or down vote ? Why not pass the bill in increments , if
the President is such an honest and upright person ? Wouldn’t this
make more sense – given the strength of the opposition and the state of
the economy, right now ?
The answer is that the President and his cronies are confirmed ideologues
who have a clear agenda . I don’t think they care about the Democratic
Congresspeople involved and their political futures one whit . They don’t give damn what the American people
think or want – nor do they particularly care about Constitutional
or transparent Congressional procedures . They do not represent the
American people – they TELL the American people they want them to do
and scheme to get the control to be able to do just that .
I just feel sorry for the fools who voted for this man and
his disgraceful followers in Congress , in the first place .
Chazz: You are my hero of the day! You so perfectly and eloquently sum up the feelings of the majority in this nation, and fully understand the intent of the Constitution and the Founding Fathers. Let me know when you run for President.
Hey Chazz, glad you brought up wealth redistribution. Here’s some facts
1. In 1980, the top 1% of incomes in US received 8% of total income for the year. In 2007, that gifted 1% of top incomes carved out 23% of total income for the year. Why? GWB and bought and paid for republican congress pased “Gifts to the rich” such as eliminating the top 2 FIT brackets(i.e.37%/39%) while the middle income americans were thrown pennies. Cost of gift?$1.7Trillion YTD stolen by the parasite 1% from the middle class they destroyed over the last 8 years and the poor who they have transformed into the American “untouchables”?. In that same 1980-2007 time period, middle income Americans actually LOST money. Wealth transfer? $1.7 Trillion to top 1% by middle income/ poor under republican administration. Chazz, are you just too ignorant, or are you just another pimp for corruption like your republican associates.
we don’t mind paying a bit more in taxes to allow the less fortunate to have their dignity preserved when they are more vulnerable. That is real wealth redistribution,what vould be the problem investing in the health of a nation, is it a great deal more than investing in wars? Is it less commendable? I would like to know.
OK, I’m all for fair. Now in the US to be “less fortunate,” you just have to be opposed to working breed out a lot of kids you can’t take care of or have some immaginary illness with two or three alphabet acronyms attached to it and Voila! society owes you food, education, housing and medical care. Now does that seem all to simple to the working class who ultimately takes care of them? So here is what I propose:
You must have three doctors to determine your inability to work.
If you are out of work and taking assistance, you must show up at the unemployment office every day and be assigned a job to do to earn your assistance (not withstanding earned unemployment benefits.)
If you have a history of welfare assistance, there is not a never ending blessing to continue to have children that society must take care of. You must limit the number of children you have after going on welfare assistance to “0” and I really don’t care about your religion and neither should the government. All we’ve heard for the past 40 years is cries of athiests that say separation of church and state. They’ve won many of those legal battles. You can hardly say God in any public place without one of the progressives yelping about being “offended.” So let’s take religion out of government assistance. Make sense? So regardless of what you feel God is whispering in your year in the bedroom, society does not have the responsibility to get up and go to work to support the results of your religion.
No illegals. It is stupid and defies all intelligent thought process to reward people to come here illegally. The steal identities, they overload our schools, they totally take advantage of our medical system, they may or may no pay incidental taxes when they shop for food or buy clothing, etc., but clearly their intent is to make money under the table and send it to the real country they love. We are just a catalist in the process, not a country they love. Hell most of them refuse to speak English and force yet another entitlement in the way of all government materials being provided in a host of languages other than English.
So, come here legally. If you are “less fortunate” quit having kids you can’t support, don’t have children for the sake of Medicare and more freebies, and get up and go to the unemployment office and be assigned a community job until you can secure work.
Now just how many of these less fortunate people do you think would sign up for these requirments to get health insurance? I doubt many. As all people who have come to live off entitlements, they expect society to support them out of the goodness of their hearts, go on with adding to their brood and watch most of us go to work out their picture window and think “Thanks Suckers.” Work harder cause I need more.
Hey Chazz, Let’s talk about tort reform but let’s do it with the following facts:
1. Tort reform costs less than 1/2 of 1% of total annual health care costs per Congressional budget office.
2. Under the American justice system, a poor man can get legal representation in malpractice suits by offering an attorney a contingent fee ( i.e. no award or settlement, if attorney gets Zero for his client. This is different from the Eurpean justice system where you have money up front or no justice because suit failure in England results in loser paying winners attorney’s fees.
3.Your pleadings have to allege a prima facia case of malpractice and append to your complaint documentation sufficient to convince the court that there are reasonable grounds for your case.
4. As an attorney, filing a malpractice suit without sufficient grounds results in direct damage to the attorney of paying the defendant’s legal fees and expenses and court cost or if the pleadings/threats of suit have no apparent basis in fact or law, plaintiff’s attorney can be disbarred. Can you imagine any attorney foolish enough to gamble their license to practice by filing frivilous lawsuits?
5. As part of the plaintiff’s burden of proof, there must be credible expert witnesses whose experience/medical resume history is sufficient to prove expertise and that the malpractice comnplained of results from activity by the doctor so foriegn to recognized standards of present day nmedical practice that a usually jealous and envious jury of peers will overcome their prejudice to “make whole” the injured victim.
6. Present state laws on malpractice are so onerous that many victims are never “made whole” because the risk to lawyers is too great given the wealth of insurers to bleed victim’s attorneys to death with their often frivilous objections and threats of appeal.
Few state supreme courts have had the courage(Like Illinois) to defend the “separation of powers” doctrine under which insurance/health care lobbies buying victim defeat legislation through corrupt legislators are permitted to steal common law damage rights that go back to Dickensian England.
Tort reform is a code phrase for “lets screw the victims” by making it economically impossible for their attorneys to file suit on a contingent fee basis.
Its analagous to burning down the hospitals to solve the healthcare problem. Now that you have the facts chaz,can you see why this “red herring’ is worked so hard by your corrupt cohorts because its too hard to put the truth in a thirty second sound bite. I suspect you are well aware of this phony argument. If you want an example of abuse, just google “beaton-healthcare-stupak” and let nurse beaton, surging with breast cancer from her insurance cariers recission decission on a phony precondition defense. Now you meet the real death panels. Not Sarah the ignorant’s imagined boogymen.
Chaz, give it up your poisonous preverications are as transparent as your attempt to present tort feasors as victims.
Hey Chazz, Let’s talk about “the government can’t be trusted to run anything fallacy of composition” you and your corporatist comrads have tried to foist off on a fast waking up citizenry. Notice that the latest WSJ/NBC orCBS poll puts a majority of Americans now supporting passing the recently reconciled health care bill.
How about Teddy Roosevelt’s action in insisting on Anti trust government powers to break up the Anaconda Oil monopolies and oligoplies who had and continue to bleed the country white.
How about FDR who hired Joe Kennedy to work with Attorney Pecora in fashioning the SEC outline and Glass Steagel legislation, Phil Gramm (R-TX) so brilliantly destroyed by tearing down depository firewalls before joining his real employer, UBS. Your buddy Banksters loved their republican deregulators. McCain even bragged he was ‘the Chief deregulator”.
How about the REA, WPA, Hoover Damn, Bonneville Dam which created jobs, public buildings and infrastructure still in use today and saved the free world to become the arsenal of democracy. How about HST’s Marshall Plan which saved the free world from totolitarianism.
How about the Albert Alonzo Stagg frootball field foundation for the atom bomb and the Manhatten Project?
How about JFK bringing the moonshot program in 2 years ahead of time and under budget? Sorry to embarrass you with the facts.
Government began to lose its best and brightest when Ronald Reagan adopted Goldwater’s philosophy that it is no vice to pursue virtue(his definition of virtue) and tarred even honest but unfortunate citizens with this brush. Virtue, to Reagan and your party’s psy war political liars and torturers like Rove, Cheney were determined to re-establish the corporacity of America as our masters and the american public is finally getting the real of the purpose and patently foundationless lyingt propoganda by your political party on this issue.The welfare queensw are the republican senate.
Thank God, BHO found his cajones, and is finally, realizing, that your tea party goon squads, birchers, birthers, McCarthyites and neoconfederate slavers, respect only one thing-strength and a commitmment to truth which are now turning the polls in the people’s favor. I only wish this could go to bayonets and rifle butts. Your corrupt patrons have turned this country into a Bastile of bigots and freedom without responsibility exploiters who truly deserve being introduced to Dr. Guillotines head separation invention.
You fought civil rights, women’s rights, programs for the retired and health care for your master’s totally selfish purposes. You probably, like your traitor associates, think you are a self made man. “True patriots know there is no such thing as a self made man-that every fortune was built upon safe roads, strong backs and bright minds developed by the community through taxes-and that taxes are not just the price we pay for a healthy nation but the gift we make to our own children. True American Patriotism means freedom WITH RESPONSIBILITY”. On your knees you whinig parasite taker, thank god for your good luck.
Chaz, keep serving up your party’s prevericating sophistries. It’s fun to put the knife of truth in you and your co-corruption knave’s hearts. Was that you torturing and throwing money at the Parkinson deseased person planted at your feet in Washington DC with the other tea partiers two days ago? What would Christ have done.
See you in November, sucker. We are taking this country forward and you will never get it back and defile it with your unbounded selfish and class warfare rantings
Wow dc2ndtest, what a biased, brainwashed idiot you are. I am not a Republican, and I also voted Democrat in 2008, and I can assure you that because of the Democrats pushing this bill on us and the way they passed it they have already lost my vote for November. I know I am not the only one by far.
This bill was pushed on us by unethical methods.
All the Democrats had to do was go back to the drawing board and start again on making an easy to understand bill that doesn’t infringe on our rights while reforming healthcare but they refused to do that. Many prominent Democrats like Howard Dean were urging them to do that and they refused. Obama couldn’t even get many members of his own party to vote for this without bribing and threatning them. Heck, Obama himself doesn’t even understand or know about everything in this bill. Neither do the Democrats who just voted for it.
Kiddo, it is way past time for you to get to bed for school in the morning.
The health insurance lobbying group AHIP says the MIB, founded more than a century ago, operates the most extensive database of medical information on individuals who have previously applied for health, life, disability income, critical illness and long-term care insurance in North America. The Washington Post says that these medical reports, which are “like credit reports for your health records,” have been created for more than 200 million Americans. The Federal Trade Commission warns that your medical report files may include both medical and non-medical information about you. For instance, personal data collected by the MIB includes medical conditions, your credit report history, driving records, criminal activity, drug use, sexual orientation, lifestyle activities, international travel, participation in hazardous sports, and personal or family genetic history. Using information from these medical report files, insurance companies can charge you higher premiums or terminate your coverage altogether.
https://www.annualmedicalreport.com/deni ed-insurance-because-of-a-medical-coding -error-in-her-mib-report-video/
Remember, the new health care reform laws in the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act don’t go in effect until 2014. All insurance applicants and policyholders should order an annual copy of their medical report files from the nationwide specialty nationwide consumer reporting agencies to ensure they aren’t overpaying for insurance or in danger of policy rejection or rescission for pre-existing conditions or errors. (For example, “Denied Insurance Because of a Medical Coding Error in Her MIB Report” from the Consumer Reports Health Blog)