Comments on: Fewer Americans know Iraq war fatality numbers http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/ Tracking U.S. politics Tue, 10 Nov 2009 02:19:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Martin http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341095 Martin Sun, 16 Mar 2008 22:26:46 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341095 The main reason that most Americans don't know how many troops have died in Iraq is they don't care. So many Americans driving around with flags on their car and their empty false patriotism but they don't really want to make any real sacrifices for the nation. Americans are all patriotic until it actually comes to do something for their nation apart from display a cheap plastic flag made in China. This is hardly surprising when the Commander-in-Chief is a coward who dodged his any real duty when the nation called. For his faults at least McCain has actually served his country and hopefully he would force America to become aware of the cost. Even better bring back the Draft. The sooner Americans pay the price for their political choices the better. The main reason that most Americans don’t know how many troops have died in Iraq is they don’t care. So many Americans driving around with flags on their car and their empty false patriotism but they don’t really want to make any real sacrifices for the nation. Americans are all patriotic until it actually comes to do something for their nation apart from display a cheap plastic flag made in China. This is hardly surprising when the Commander-in-Chief is a coward who dodged his any real duty when the nation called. For his faults at least McCain has actually served his country and hopefully he would force America to become aware of the cost. Even better bring back the Draft. The sooner Americans pay the price for their political choices the better.

]]> By: Doug http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341090 Doug Sun, 16 Mar 2008 20:23:56 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341090 Since 1962, over one million Americans have died from intentional and accidential shootings. Not a good reason for banning handguns. Every year 17,000 Americans die from drunk drivers. Not a good reason for banning alcohol. In the last 6 years, we have lost 4000 Americans fighting terrorism in Iraq and Afganistan. A good reason to bring our troops home? Doug Since 1962, over one million Americans have died from intentional and accidential shootings. Not a good reason for banning handguns.
Every year 17,000 Americans die from drunk drivers. Not a good reason for banning alcohol.
In the last 6 years, we have lost 4000 Americans fighting terrorism in Iraq and Afganistan. A good reason to bring our troops home?
Doug

]]> By: John Korpi http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341087 John Korpi Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:06:41 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341087 The real issue is that the awareness of the war is fading in the mind of the American masses. It appears that concern over the war in the popular mind is less about the human costs, and more about whether the U.S. might be “losing”. With the surge chalked up as a success and attention diverted to the economy and the election this survey's findings should come as a surprise to no one. Americans as a nation do not give a rip how many people have died, or will die, so long as they can claim a victory. They lament their own losses and could care less about how many Iraqi's have been killed. Although putting precise numbers on casualties puts the destruction of human lives in scope for those of us who might care, the fact of the matter is that the American Public values victory more than the lives of those lost. The priority currently placed on the war and the public's correspondingly low level of awareness simply underscores this point. The dilemma is that inventing a victory in Iraq is beyond the powers of prevarication and political manipulation of any American regime. Without the ability to generate victory and unable to accept a loss, America will stubbornly continue with her Iraqi war. The number of dead will continue to increase and you can continue debating the precise number from the comfort of your home for many years to come. Take heart. The real issue is that the awareness of the war is fading in the mind of the American masses. It appears that concern over the war in the popular mind is less about the human costs, and more about whether the U.S. might be “losing”. With the surge chalked up as a success and attention diverted to the economy and the election this survey’s findings should come as a surprise to no one. Americans as a nation do not give a rip how many people have died, or will die, so long as they can claim a victory. They lament their own losses and could care less about how many Iraqi’s have been killed. Although putting precise numbers on casualties puts the destruction of human lives in scope for those of us who might care, the fact of the matter is that the American Public values victory more than the lives of those lost. The priority currently placed on the war and the public’s correspondingly low level of awareness simply underscores this point. The dilemma is that inventing a victory in Iraq is beyond the powers of prevarication and political manipulation of any American regime. Without the ability to generate victory and unable to accept a loss, America will stubbornly continue with her Iraqi war. The number of dead will continue to increase and you can continue debating the precise number from the comfort of your home for many years to come. Take heart.

]]> By: T. Mooney http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341084 T. Mooney Sun, 16 Mar 2008 06:38:27 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341084 I have heard it is over 1,000,000 Iraqis have been killed, and you have to multiply that 4000 US dead by 3 to get an accurate amount of US soldiers that have died, remember, if they make it into the copter before their heart stops, it "doesn't" count... I have heard it is over 1,000,000 Iraqis have been killed, and you have to multiply that 4000 US dead by 3 to get an accurate amount of US soldiers that have died, remember, if they make it into the copter before their heart stops, it “doesn’t” count…

]]> By: nunya bizness http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341073 nunya bizness Sat, 15 Mar 2008 19:52:12 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341073 The last report that came out in May 2007 said there were 73,000 Gulf War deaths since 1991. Search out 'Gulf War Veterans Information System' to find .pdfs on the subject. The last report that came out in May 2007 said there were 73,000 Gulf War deaths since 1991. Search out ‘Gulf War Veterans Information System’ to find .pdfs on the subject.

]]> By: Sanford Russell http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341070 Sanford Russell Sat, 15 Mar 2008 19:34:26 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341070 John Orbell didn’t take the figure of 600,000 deaths attributed to the U.S. invasion of Iraq from thin air. It’s the figure given in a study reported in the medical journal “Lancet,” one of the most (perhaps the most) respected medical journal in the world. Click on the URL's below for the study and articles from the "Washington Post" and the Australian "Age." http://web.mit.edu/CIS/pdf/Human_Cost_of_War.pdf http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001442.html http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/the-iraq-deaths-study-was-valid-and-correct/2006/10/20/1160851135985.html Also anyone interested in further commentary, including some rather harsh criticism, can go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surveys_of_Iraq_War_casualties "Mortality after the 2003 invasion of Iraq: a cross-sectional cluster sample survey"PDF (242 KiB). By Gilbert Burnham, Riyadh Lafta, Shannon Doocy, and Les Roberts. The Lancet, October 11, 2006 From Wikipedia: “The second survey[2][3][4] published on 11 October 2006, estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population, through the end of June 2006. The new study applied similar methods and involved surveys between May 20 and July 10, 2006.[4] More households were surveyed, allowing for a 95% confidence interval of 392,979 to 942,636 excess Iraqi deaths. 601,027 deaths (range of 426,369 to 793,663 using a 95% confidence interval) were due to violence. 31% of those were attributed to the Coalition, 24% to others, 46% unknown. The causes of violent deaths were gunshot (56%), car bomb (13%), other explosion/ordnance (14%), air strike (13%), accident (2%), unknown (2%).” John Orbell didn’t take the figure of 600,000 deaths attributed to the U.S. invasion of Iraq from thin air. It’s the figure given in a study reported in the medical journal “Lancet,” one of the most (perhaps the most) respected medical journal in the world. Click on the URL’s below for the study and articles from the “Washington Post” and the Australian “Age.”

http://web.mit.edu/CIS/pdf/Human_Cost_of _War.pdf
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con tent/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001442. html
http://www.theage.com.au/news/opinion/th e-iraq-deaths-study-was-valid-and-correc t/2006/10/20/1160851135985.html

Also anyone interested in further commentary, including some rather harsh criticism, can go here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancet_surv eys_of_Iraq_War_casualties

“Mortality after the 2003 invasion of Iraq: a cross-sectional cluster sample survey”PDF (242 KiB). By Gilbert Burnham, Riyadh Lafta, Shannon Doocy, and Les Roberts. The Lancet, October 11, 2006

From Wikipedia:

“The second survey[2][3][4] published on 11 October 2006, estimated 654,965 excess deaths related to the war, or 2.5% of the population, through the end of June 2006. The new study applied similar methods and involved surveys between May 20 and July 10, 2006.[4] More households were surveyed, allowing for a 95% confidence interval of 392,979 to 942,636 excess Iraqi deaths. 601,027 deaths (range of 426,369 to 793,663 using a 95% confidence interval) were due to violence. 31% of those were attributed to the Coalition, 24% to others, 46% unknown. The causes of violent deaths were gunshot (56%), car bomb (13%), other explosion/ordnance (14%), air strike (13%), accident (2%), unknown (2%).”

]]> By: jeff http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341058 jeff Sat, 15 Mar 2008 13:19:58 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341058 The war dead in Iraq isn't 86000 or whatever Iraq Body Count state. Read their goddamned website, they say this is just the figure they confirm, and they say the war dead is more likely to be the figure that the Lancet, and multiple other scientific studies estimate of 1 million. 300,000 killed directly by US forces. Read the methodology before denouncing it. There is no way this methodology can produce the wrong answer in my opinion. You might not like it, but there are 1 million dead from US involvement in Iraq. Emptying penitenturies into the army, refusing to take Traumatically stressed soldiers out of the war zone, and giving them 2 billion bullets a year not to mention shells etc, what else would you expect? The war dead in Iraq isn’t 86000 or whatever Iraq Body Count state. Read their goddamned website, they say this is just the figure they confirm, and they say the war dead is more likely to be the figure that the Lancet, and multiple other scientific studies estimate of 1 million.
300,000 killed directly by US forces.
Read the methodology before denouncing it. There is no way this methodology can produce the wrong answer in my opinion.
You might not like it, but there are 1 million dead from US involvement in Iraq.
Emptying penitenturies into the army, refusing to take Traumatically stressed soldiers out of the war zone, and giving them 2 billion bullets a year not to mention shells etc, what else would you expect?

]]> By: dick bohanon http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341047 dick bohanon Sat, 15 Mar 2008 00:08:26 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341047 are you suprised? a recent survey found that 20% of american adults think the sun revolves around the earth. need i say anything else? we are doomed are you suprised?
a recent survey found that 20% of american adults think
the sun revolves around the earth.
need i say anything else?
we are doomed

]]> By: Jon http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341037 Jon Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:49:16 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341037 Someone please explain the benefits of knowing exactly how many troops have died at any given moment up to and including right now. Tell me why it is such a bad thing to not know exactly? Now let me tell you, I don't care. They don't come back to life because I count their body and memorize the statistics daily. Have a war. Don't have a war. I really don't care. Do remember however that I don't have to care because one of you said I should. Remember that or you are no better than the dictators running this planet. Someone please explain the benefits of knowing exactly how many troops have died at any given moment up to and including right now. Tell me why it is such a bad thing to not know exactly? Now let me tell you, I don’t care. They don’t come back to life because I count their body and memorize the statistics daily.

Have a war. Don’t have a war. I really don’t care. Do remember however that I don’t have to care because one of you said I should. Remember that or you are no better than the dictators running this planet.

]]> By: Jon http://blogs.reuters.com/frontrow/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341036 Jon Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:31:27 +0000 http://blogs.reuters.com/trail08/2008/03/12/fewer-americans-know-iraq-war-fatality-numbers/#comment-341036 Of that 89,300 estimate quoted by John O'Callaghan above, how many of those fatalities were actually at the hands of international forces? Try not to be so naive as to think every single one of those people was ruthlessly murdered by American armed forces because they were not. It is however a bit troubling to see people "estimate" as John Orbell did and throw out an absolutely absurd 600,000 count. Where did you get your erroneous data points to estimate from John? Of that 89,300 estimate quoted by John O’Callaghan
above, how many of those fatalities were actually at the hands of international forces?
Try not to be so naive as to think every single one of those people was ruthlessly murdered by American armed forces because they were not. It is however a bit troubling to see people “estimate” as John Orbell did and throw out an absolutely absurd 600,000 count. Where did you get your erroneous data points to estimate from John?

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