Cold War reheated as U.S. and Russia duke it out over Georgia

August 11, 2008

Russian Ambassador Vitaly Churkin

The temperature at the United Nations Security Council hasn’t been this high in years — and it’s not because the U.N. management raised the thermostat slightly to cut electricity costs. It’s due to the heated exchange of insults and accusations between Russia and the United States, which has reached a fever pitch reminiscent of the Cold War years.

U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad accused Russia on Sunday of using the Georgian incursion into Georgia’s breakaway enclave of South Ossetia as an excuse for a massive military assault against its tiny pro-Western neighbor whose ultimate goal is “regime change” in Tbilisi. He also assailed Moscow for waging a “campaign of terror” against the civilian population of Georgia, a former Soviet republic.

Russia’s U.N. Ambassador Vitaly Churkin shot back that regime change is an “American invention” and suggested it was hypocritical of Washington to talk about attacks on civilians in light of what it has done in Iraq, Afghanistan and Serbia. Churkin said Russia is only trying to defend its peacekeepers and protect civilians from Georgian “ethnic cleansing” and “genocide” in South Ossetia, a small pro-Moscow province that threw off Tbilisi’s rule in the 1990s and has been managed by Russian troops since.

There’s a subtext to this dispute and it isn’t just the U.S. and European support for the declaration of independence of Kosovo, a former breakaway region of Serbia that seceded in February. Serbia and its ally Russia were both enraged by what they saw as an unjustified tearing away of a large chunk of Serbian territory in violation of international law. (Of course, the Georgian separatists in South Ossetia and Abkhazia — another Georgian breakaway region — took notice.)

Tensions between Russia and the United States have been simmering for a while.

When the United States announced it was planning to build a missile shield in Poland and the Czech Republic several years ago, then President Vladimir Putin was outraged. He dismissed U.S. statements that the shield was to guard against Iran, not Russia. In February 2007 at a security conference in Munich, Germany, Putin accused the United States of trying to create a “unipolar” world with Washington as its “one single master”. He made clear that Russia would not stand idly by while Washington tried to subjugate the planet. U.S. officials were taken aback at the force of Putin’s speech, which some said sounded like a declaration of a new Cold War.

Russia, richer than ever thanks to its massive oil and gas revenues, has made no attempt to hide its irritation at Washington’s staunch support for Georgia’s NATO aspirations. It views the expansion of NATO towards its borders as an encroachment on its sphere of influence.

Is it possible that when Georgian President Mikheil Saakashvili decided to go into South Ossetia and try to put it back under Tbilisi’s control, he gave Russian leaders a golden opportunity to severely punish Georgia’s pro-Western leadership and show the world that Russia is no longer the weak, economically devastated nation it was in the 1990s?

Perhaps the message is — Russia is back, it’s powerful and it won’t tolerate anyone messing around in its backyard.

Or is there another message here?

108 comments

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Saakashvili is a war criminal and has to be treated as such. He started this conflict, which led to massive loss of live in Osetia. Saakashvili must go!

Posted by Alec | Report as abusive

Yes there is another message, i agree!There is much more behind and this is just a begining.
USA,UK and France a ready and they will atack Iran in 90 days!What’s gone happen after that? Only GOD knows…….

Posted by blaze of glory | Report as abusive

IMHO Russians come’s back!

Posted by Eugene | Report as abusive

[...] U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad accused Russia on Sunday of using the Georgian incursion into Georgia?s breakaway enclave of South Ossetia as an excuse for a massive military campaign against its tiny pro-Western neighbor whose ultimate goal is ?regime change? in Tbilisi. He also assailed Moscow for waging a ?campaign of terror? against the civilian population of Georgia, a former Soviet republic. Russia?s U.N. Ambassador Vitaly Churkin shot back that regime change is an ?American invention? and suggested it was hypocritical of Washington to talk about attacks on civilians in light of what it has done in Iraq, Afghanistan and Serbia. Churkin said Russia is only trying to defend its ?peacekeepers? and protect the civilians from Georgian ?ethnic cleansing? and ?genocide?. There?s a subtext to this dispute and it isn?t just the U.S. and European support for Kosovo?s independence, a former breakaway region of Serbia that seceded in February. Serbia and its ally Russia were both enraged by what they saw as an unjustified tearing away of a large chunk of Serbian territory in violation of international law. (Of course, the Georgian separatists in South Ossetia and Abkhazia ? another Georgian breakaway region ? took notice.) Tensions between Russia and the United States have been simmering for a while. When the United States announced it was planning to build a missile shield in Poland and the Czech Republic several years ago, then President Vladimir Putin was outraged. He dismissed U.S. statements that the shield was to guard against Iran, not Russia. In February 2007 at a security conference in Munich, Germany, Putin accused the United States of trying to create a ?unipolar? world with Washington as its ?one single master?. He made clear that Russia would not stand idly by while Washington tried to subjugate the planet. U.S. officials were taken aback at the force of Putin?s speech, which some said sounded like a declaration of a new Cold War. MORE [...]

first, the Georgian President must get some kind commitment if he make this war with Russia, somebody will back him up, unless he’s crizy.
second, the timing, this war happend just before the US election campion is about to start, it’s a coinsidence? or somebody want distract the American people’s attetion from the bad economy to something else?
in the end of the day, we probably will see two more independent states backed by the Russians, and the American amy’s presence in Geogia.
And more Eastern European country will be up for grab, until the Americans has a conflict with the Russians.

Posted by atkins | Report as abusive

Russia is back. America is not the only one with military might. Russia show us what you got.

Posted by Asad M | Report as abusive

Invading a country 10 000 miles away is OK. But protecting a compatriots next to your border is aggression!!! good joke

Posted by dejan1111 | Report as abusive

I can say that intenationall community can’t blame Russia. South Osetia it’s not a part of Georgia and people who lived there are not rebelians, they are citiztns of Russian Federation. But why nobody on the West dont mention such inforvftion?

Posted by Eugene | Report as abusive

South Osetia is NOT a part of Russian Fed. It’s part of Georgia – and so be it. It’s impossible to atack own country and to be an aggressor!

Posted by Alex | Report as abusive

It is absolutely neccessary, to set up the cease fire. Russia ia an neo-imperialist aggressor who tend to etsablish dictatorial rule on it independent neighbours.

Georgians are fiughting for their homeland, for their houses and lives, for chance to be independent and free part of international society.

South Ossetia was the part of Georgia through out the history and it remains it till now. Russian backed criminals and separatists opened fire to ethnic georgian population in the Region ann georgian were forced to response.

Bombing Georgian capitol, cities out conflict zone, airports and sea ports is wide war. Was initiated by neo-gascistic leaders of Russia, in order to crack down the most west-oriented country in the post-soviet space.
Tu topple down georgian government and tu eliminate civil population.

Russia must be stopped, otherwise following countries as Ukraine, Baltic States, East European states will be next.

God bless Georgians

Posted by Josef | Report as abusive

Why is no one western country offer a simple help (medical, food, etc) to the thousand and thousand osetian civilians flee from battlefield? They are not a human kind for you? All that wounded, childrens, ladies? Such a lot of help for Albanian half-criminal state, and not for any nation supporting Russia?

Posted by Alex | Report as abusive

Saakashvikli is now a war criminal. He was ordered to start this war by the United States. George Bush, Condaleeza Rice, Dick Cheney and co, as well as Saakashvili must face international justice for this. Read Joe Mestas interview on Russia Today, a U.S citizen’s story on the subject who has actually witnessed the fighting.

The free and fair world must stand by Russia as she is the true voice of fairness.

Posted by Daryl | Report as abusive

Dear friends! We are watching the Great Lie from Internet! The reality is that Saakashvili FIRST bombed Tskhinvali on the Day of the Olympian Games! Georgian soldiers SHOT Russian Peace-making armies, peaceful population FIRST and only AFTER this Russia moved army to prevent further destruction. Remember Kosovo, and the US position in that case!
If you understand the reality, that means your have a free mind.
P.S. Please, send this message to all your friends. Thank you!

Posted by max | Report as abusive

Rule number one: never trust Russians. What they do is something totally different than thay say.

Posted by Alex(O) | Report as abusive

go RUSSIA go RUSSIA go!!!

Posted by padmanaba | Report as abusive

As usual your blog site is dominated by terrorists, fashists,pro russian imperialists, KGB style thugs. Why should thew US get involved let’s let Europe slaughter each other one more time.

if russia is not aggressor, why do then they bomb Georgian cities which are located much further than the conflict zones? And bombing continuously.
Who can ever say that Russia is not aggressor if you remember Chechnya and this list:

Remember:
The occupation of Ukraine by Russia – 1650s
Russia – Crimea – 1783
Russia – Poland – 1795
Russia – Eastern Georgia – September 21, 1801; April 1802
Russia – Georgia (1810-1864)
Mass murdering of 1 Million Caucasians by Russia – 1859-1880
Russia – Japan – 1905-1905
Russia -Poland – 1920
Russia – Azerbaijan – 1920
Russia – Armenia – 1920
Russia – Poland -1939
Russia – Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia – 1940
Russia (USSR) – Finland – 1940
Russia (USSR) – Hungary – 1956
Russia (USSR) – Czechoslovakia – 1968
Russia (USSR) – Afghanistan – 1979-1989
Russia – Georgia – 1919, 1920 (April-May), 1921, 1924, 1991-93
Russia – Georgia – August 2008………………………………… ????????????

Posted by Irakli | Report as abusive

Why is there a media blackout in US
Its all over the European news wires.
Come on, some Americans actually believe that the Russians are attacking Georgia in the US.

Georgia went in with US special forces and sneak attacked Osetia and slaughtered thousands, Russia went in to stop the killing. Now Russia is labelled as the villian. What would the US do if Cuba attacked Florida? Duh!

Why is the US media afraid to print the truth. Its disgusting how our media is censored. Unbelievable.

Posted by W H Lindemann | Report as abusive

- “U.S. Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad accused Russia on Sunday of using the Georgian incursion into Georgia’s
breakaway enclave of South Ossetia as ?n excuse for ? massive military assault against its tiny pro-Western
neighbor whose ultimate goal is “regime change” in Tbilisi.”
So Khalilzad admitted that it was the Georgian incursion! ?esterday 1 read about Russian incursion! CNN is still broadcasting about “Russian terror and incursion”.
So PR war is going ?n. But taking CNN as ?n example we ??n see only ?n? point of view – Saakashvili’s. Where has democracy gone? Freedom of speech n? longer
exists. Possibly Americans try to return cold war cliches and make the whole world believe them. Did u notice ?? the way that in UN Security Council there are 2
opposing forces – US and Russia. Why America is so eager to defend Saakashvili? I hear someone found corpses of afroamerican instuctors in the zone of conf1ict?
Why we miss it ?n official news?

Posted by Joe | Report as abusive

It seems to me that US/European authorities and mass media just don’t want their people to know the truth. That’s why we see this madman Saakashvili everywhere expressing US-written point of view!!

Posted by Rob | Report as abusive

“Or is there another message here?”

The point of Russia isn’t to show anything to anyone, but to stop the bloodshed in the region as soon as possible.
—————–
Today the document of ceasefire, finally, has been signed by Saakashvili(before there were only words). But still the fighting continues. After the signature of the document, russian news twice reported of shelling of Tskhinvali by georgian arms. The document was prepared by two european foreing ministers (France and Finland), who came to Tbilisi earlier. Today they left Georgia and are supposed to meet russian president, Medvedev.
The conditions of the ceasefire document are kept in secret and are not announced to the public.
The document will take effect only after Mr.Medvedev signs it.

Consider, that Russia and other foreing countries have been trying to convince Mr.Saakashvili to sign the document of military non-agression for month before the 8-th of August.
Now, for people to stop dying from shells, we have to hope for ceasefire document to be signed.

Hopefully, it will be so. But the text of the document have to be viewed in order to understand what comes next.

Posted by Pavel D. (Rostov-on-Don, Russia) | Report as abusive

No the Russians are the true agressors. What the Georgian military did was only a pre-emptive strike on South Ossetia. The 70.000 Ossetian people are far to dangerous with the 3.000 Russian peacekeapers. Does anyone believe this bla bla?

If the USA and Russia really cared about world peace than their would never have been a war in Rwanda. Israel and Indonesia would be under an embargo for the last thirty years. Democracy would be a debateable political choice rather than the only truth

Posted by Locus publicus | Report as abusive

I love all the posts by the single guy who keeps making up names. Saying the same thing every time. Is anyone else even on this forum?

What Georgia did was probably stupid, but what Russia is doing back is very typical Soviet incursion style. I don’t think we can do anything militaristically, but we should chomp down on Russia economically as much as we can and feed Georgia rebuilding money as soon as possible.

Posted by Brian | Report as abusive

Yes, that must have been quite funny to hear an accusation of “regime change” from a representative of… the United States. When asked, Mr. Bolton told once the US were entitled to a regime change to protect their interests, even if the regime had been democratically elected. Thus the arguments of the US and the rest of “international community” are ridiculous.

After all, regime change, “humanitarian intervention” and double standards are all Western inventions. Feel like it tastes? Kosovo FULL-criminal pseudo-state should be waiting for fellows.

Posted by Beorscealc | Report as abusive

Hmm, What better time to announce this than during the olympics. There will be plenty of viewers who now think we need to police the world. This is more propaganda the international bankers are using to sustain war. Cant you see ,its the same old story. Sounds just like what we did to Iraq. We cant stay in Iraq for ever. There needs to be a new enemy, to sustain war, to keep the money flowing. Now they will continue to terrorize us until they systematically take over the world. This is a ruse ,to get us onboard for more war.

Posted by CT | Report as abusive

Spare us from your twisted delusions, Locus publicus. At least truth is debateable in a democracy, not so in a totalitarian form of government.

Posted by John Blank | Report as abusive

Remark: Ossetia(not splited by Stalin then) joined Russia 25 yrs BEFORE Georgia joined. Both made it by goodwill(goal: to leave Turkish genocide).

Posted by Jav | Report as abusive

Now all the war crazy people in Russia and America will get what they want! A World War III. Georgia is the start next iran, syria and israel in war. After that will come Russia, China, USA and EU.

Jippeeeeeee!!!! War war war … isn’t it nice???

Posted by Juha | Report as abusive

The message is that Russia is no longer irrelevant.
People, open your eyes, Putin is hell-bent on returning Russia back to the glory days of the Soviet Union. The attack on South Ossetia gave them the pretext to secure it’s backyard. Call it Russia’s “Manifest Desity”…
They will invade Georgia proper and they will remove the democratic government of Georgia. This is the “logical conclusion” Putin speaks of…

Posted by Chris | Report as abusive

When the Soviet Union invaded and took over Czechoslovakia, Poland, Romania, East Germany, etc. after World War II, they always claimed they were just defending the people of those countries against their own governments. Russia today is using the same inhuman, brutal tactics and the very same justifications as the old evil empire known as the Soviet Union.

Russia today is identical, no different than the Soviet Union, and just as undemocratic and repressive.

It’s amazing people in the world would see the U.S. and NATO as being in the wrong and Russia as the savior of liberty and democracy. But then again, a lot of delusioned innocents thought the same in during the Cold War.

Cold War II has begun. Thanks Putin!!! It’s nice to know the world still has nuclear weapons too.

Posted by Matt | Report as abusive

The dirty west and its hypocrisy! You invade nations, you topple elected govts, you massacre innocent people, all in the name of what GOD?? No, Oil, wealth, dominance and supremacy. When some people defend themselves they are rogues, they are thugs, they are whatever. We love you Russia, Go Go Go. Teach the US and its stooges a hard lesson. US and its allies are the real empire of evil and vice.

Posted by Cindy Haines | Report as abusive

Why Georgians are tolerating Saakashvili?
He shut down opposition media during his elections, but West recognised him as democratic leader.
May because he is US creauture….

Posted by Mike | Report as abusive

Why Georgia attacked? A war against Russia is suicide, unless:

What if USA and other European nations promised to back up Georgia, then it sounds different.

Of course now that all the region could be in jeopardy they are leaving Georgia alone and blaming Russia.

Mr. Bush you have caused enought trouble already, don’t tempt Russia to use Cuba as a military base again.

Posted by Luis Chavez | Report as abusive

Russia has every right to protect its citizens in both south ossetia and abkhazia. As the U.S.A and N.A.T.O also did in the kosovan conflict, they are also within there rights to attack the oggressors own soil too,if it is required. The U.S. N.A.T.O and britain are proving to us all what a bunch of contradictory hypocrits they are, its about time they took a hard look at themselves and the policies they have seen fit to entertain over the previous 10 years. Im proud to be english and european, im sick and tierd of the united states of america imposing its culture, its poor excuse of democracy and trying to bulldoze itself over every square inch of our planet , so it can force us all to bow down at its knees. If this conflict and previous disagreements with russia mean a new cold war is upon us, then maybe its a good thing. Its about time someone stood up to the yanks and showed them that enough is enough, its time america relised how much we are all sick of there bully tactics. If it wernt for lap dogs like my country and others who run up america`s backend, maybe conflicts like iraq, afganistan, kosovo, palestian and now georgia would never off happened.

Posted by Stu from england | Report as abusive

We, in Eastern Europe know the russians better then anyone. We have been ocupayed by this red beasts so many decades. Do not trust russia,they are the main enamy of western civilization. To not lose our honor, we must provide our moral, economic, military support to thr tiny republic of Georgia, and for the georgian peoaple that now are facing the full might of the bear.

Posted by radu | Report as abusive

Truth is always the 1st casualty of war. Do not believe CNN, nor any other “independent news source”. Look at where the refugees are running. Half of Tshinvali residents ran to Russia.
Other half is trying to survive in the basements. Nobody ran to Georgia.

Posted by otshel'nik | Report as abusive

America went into Iraq unilateraly and without cause setting a precedent for other countries to justify their own unilateral actions. This is exactly the excuse that the Russians will use to deflect blame. The UN security council is a toothless, political joke. How can an organization that supposedly represents world interests and peace have any credilbility when the power is consolidated to a few powerful countries with self-serving interests and veto power.Unbelievable!

Posted by Dan | Report as abusive

RUSSIAN OIL AND GAS = GEORGIAN BLOOD! if USA and Europe don’t stop Russia now, than all the ideals of democracy and freedom that the West preaches is ONE BIG LIE. Nobody might care about a tiny nation of hardly 4 million people, but I assure you that Russia will not be content with destroying Georgia, it will move on to the rest of the Caucasus and Eastern Europe, it will invade your countries too if not today, TOMORROW. If the world does not help Georgia today, than what US and Europe stands for in nothing but a JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Eteri | Report as abusive

STOP SAAKASHVILI!!!… At 3:30 08.08.2008 tanks of the Georgian army have entered Tskhinvali, the capital of the South Ossetian Republic. GEORGIA HAS KILLED 1600 INNOCENT CIVILIANS!
Why Saakashvili needs the death of these peace citizens? The current Georgian government is not a democratic power!!!

Posted by Eugene | Report as abusive

Notice: specially for English-speaking visitors – a word-for-word translation of the post previously published at Osradio.ru

Georgians and their US-masters would never be forgiven for recent mass slaughter in South Ossetia. Brutal massacre of S. Ossetian civilians by Georgian army during the first days of military operation was nothing but an extreme point of man-hatred. A few examples of acts of genocide are given below.

The road from regional hub Znaur to the village of Dzhava is covered with corpses of S. Ossetian civilians – including women, elders and children. It’s still impossible to bury the dead as all moving objects in that area immediately come under fire of Georgian snipers and artillery.

Tkhsinval, August 8, 2008. According to eyewitnesses a group of S. Ossetian children was burnt alive inside two refugee’s minibuses which headed to Vladikavkaz.

The Khetagurovo massacre – another tragedy of Zharsk province. All young ladies of Khetagurovo village were kidnapped and driven away in unknown direction. Other villagers – men, women and elders were blocked in the building of local church and set on fire. Children were murdered separately. Georgians chopped children’s heads off in presence of their parents. Kidnapped girls have been raped and tortured, their genitals disfigured.

We want to believe that after all Saakashvili’s junta will face adeserved trial soon

Posted by Vladimir | Report as abusive

To all uninitiated:

1. The war was started by Georgia, not Russia.
2. When you provoke a bear, do not expect a mild response from a brutal beast.
3. Learn the lessons of failed diplomacy now. It can be way too late with McCain. Being “a strong” leader he might jokingly declare an attack on Russia. Like “bomb, bomb, bomb!” Russia is not a very humorous country and the response is unlikely to be very funny.
4. Take a look at this link offered via Reuters: http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/i dUKLB71416020080811?sp=true

Posted by ira waxmann | Report as abusive

as usual western strategists show their citizens a coloured picture. Then the aggressor [usa and willing partners] was liberator, now the aggressor [georgia] is victim and liberator [russia] is monster ! The public of west will always see glorification of wild west only.

Mr. Putin and South Osetia need to be treated like they are: War Criminals. Rebels and Violent states like Russia should not be handled lightly. The Time for diplomacy is over, NATO must show that we do not deal lightly with aggressive actions like Russia’s. I strongly support Russia’s removal from the G8 and economic sanctions.

Posted by anoy | Report as abusive

Russia is showing its true colours and imperialistic intentions by expanding their “peace keeping” role beyond the GEORGIAN conflict zones into other areas of Georgia and by their protection of “Russian citizens” (by issuing passports to the Georgians in the conflict zones who accept them). Unfortunate that because of German dissent against NATO membership for Georgia, Russia felt free to invade Georgia. Georgia will unfortunately be left to themselves to fend off the Russian aggression and this war will be further used against the Georgians in December when their bid to join NATO will be reviewed. Sure, Russia is to blame for their militancy, but Germany is an accomplice. The UN and the EU, as inept as ever, will do nothing but resort to empty rhetoric which will not solve the issue and innocent Georgian civilians will continue to die. Long live Georgia! Long live democracy! Down with Russian totalitarianism and imperialism! Let’s hope that NATO plays a role, militant if necessary, in pressuring Russia to retreat.

Posted by Daniel | Report as abusive

The only reason why Georgian forces attacted South Osetia is hope that survied people will flee to Russia for good.

Posted by tt | Report as abusive

I’m not taking any sides here at all — but people should take into consideration these facts:

The U.S. is continuing to develop and deploy it’s anti-ballistic missile defense system. Russia has increased its Bear Bomber flights near U.S. territory in recent months, including two low-level overflights of the aircraft carrier Nimitz.

Posted by Eric | Report as abusive

[...] Global News Blog » Blog Archive » Cold War reheated as U.S. and Russia duke it out over Georgia | … [...]

While Russia has a history of aggression, wake up, Georgia clearly started this and Russia can not be blamed for its prompt response. What were the Georgians thinking?!? South Ossetia is just as much a part of Russia as any other faction or state making up its country. I am in favor of the cease fire, but I think it is absurd Georgia thought anything but this could happen upon their violation on international boarders and fire on a country…of all countries…RUSSIA.

Posted by Lacy | Report as abusive

Russia wants respect in from the international community.But its going about it the very wrongest of ways.Russia was the defacto ruler of Ossetia anyway.What Georgia did by going in was not well advised, but Russias massive response was even more ill advised.Russia is like a school bully,chip on the shoulder with a complex whose family just made a couple of millions and wants everyone in school to know hes the big kid on the block.I watched the footage on TV and for all Russias explanation, they came across as a band of thugs that they are. The Russian president is a puppet, but hes a lawyer, and deep inside he knows Putins reaction to situation will have long term implications.Russia has lost a lot of trust and respect and you can not threaten and beat people into respecting you. Russia can not say ‘well, the US invaded Iraq, so this is OK’. Iraq was not right and what Russia did is even more wrong because its happening in Europe.Russians neigbours will fear, never trust or respect Russia. Putin was good for Russia, now, if his crazy definition of Russian Strategic interest and nationalism isnt checked;the 1st casualty will be Russia.

Posted by sean | Report as abusive

Russian Peace-making armies

Ummm…..”Peace-Making” and “Armies” are two terms that should never be grouped together in my opinion.

How can you have a peace making army?
Armies are meant for war and conflict, not for peace.

As far as I’m concerned, South Ossetia was never recognized as an independent country by the world. As far as the world is concerned S. Ossetia and Abkhazia are both territories of Georgia.

Russia obviously has an issue with this as they want those territories for themselves, so for them to get involved in what is basically a “civil war” is wrong.

But then again I’m one of those “un-educated americans” and will prbably get flamed for this opinion.

Posted by Dave | Report as abusive

Russia is the worst of Stalin and the Nazi’s reincarinated. They have run Shell and BP out after exploiting their technology. Now they are going after Georgian pipe line. This has Putin’s fingerprints all over it. Russia is the enemy of the West and we had all better wake up! Sig Heil Russia!

Posted by JTLING | Report as abusive

While two BIG countryes connot make a deal, some innocent people suffering for those who wants to get into NATO, to get a country-satelite near Russia, who want mineral resources, who want to be elected as a president, who want to make attantion to other things than a global finance, food, oil, etc. crisis. An so on. There are no price for a life of a man, but sometimes it costs nothing as we see now.

Posted by VV | Report as abusive

well, shakashwilli was asking for trouble, when he started this conflict. It shows what an immature and stupid person he really is. Sherwanadse would never have indulged in such a crazy and ill thought out move. The georgians should realise their president’s folly and kick him out. Peace with Russia is the only answer.

Posted by smartguy | Report as abusive

yeah i was surpise it took the US media two days before it showed up on the news. i believe this is an internal conflict and Russia went out of line when it bombed inside Georgia. Unfortunately for the Georgians, and Russia knows this, UN, NATO, and the US who is far too stretched in resources will not do anything but verbal condemnation of the attack. it makes you wonder why we need to go thousands of miles to “democratize” a country when we don’t do anything to protect an already democratic one.

Posted by MD | Report as abusive

All this happening is terrible, people dying from military action for whatever reason is unacceptable. However, the big picture is that Georgia just couldn’t settle with having no control over S. Ossetia and they were very, very, mistaken in expecting little from their Russian allies. In a very wrong and fearful way this, and the Iran situation, is showing the US the world has had enough of THEIR invasions, all in the search of world democracy, for whatever that means. The bully is getting bullied, and it won’t be pretty.

Posted by Hector | Report as abusive

There is nothing wrong with being an aggressor. It’s all about National Interest. Georgia is just a poor pawn in this game. Georgia and US, who orchestrated the attempt to reclaim territory, have failed this time. Russia won. Winners are not to be judged, as always…

Posted by Linda | Report as abusive

The wolves are circling one another again. Whatever small creatures are crushed underneath is of no concern to them. Start digging those shelters.

Posted by Block | Report as abusive

Why the media is showing only citizens of Georgia injured and death? What about the citizens of South Ossetia? They are not humans?

Posted by Mike | Report as abusive

NATO forces need to be sent to Georgia’s capitol immediately in order to deter any imminent Russian invasion. In addition, a no-fly zone needs to be established over Georgia proper (not including AB and SO). Georgia can do what it wants in its own territory (the Russians are doing it in Chechnya as we speak). NATO needs to show that it actually has a backbone and will protect its allies.

Posted by Busaka | Report as abusive

If Milosevic can be toppled by West for action in Kosovo, why can’t Russia topple Shakaashvilli for actions in South Oseetia? If Saddam can be toppled by West, why can’t Shakaashvilli? I don’t understand. This is a clear double standard.

Posted by Zakh | Report as abusive

By the way:

Putin said: “They (the Americans) of course had to hang Saddam Hussein for destroying several Shiite villages, …But the current Georgian rulers who in one hour simply wiped 10 Ossetian villages from the face of the earth, the Georgian rulers which used tanks to run over children and the elderly, which threw civilians into cellars and burnt them — they (Georgian leaders) are players that have to be protected.”

The quote is from: http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/i dUSL768040420080811?feedType=RSS&feedNam e=topNews&pageNumber=1&virtualBrandChann el=0

He’s right for one point of view: Georgia was commiting genocide and Europe and US are protecting Georgia because Russia is the bad guy and Georgia is an US ally.

However, he’s not better because he was suppostedly attacking georgian civilians too. There’s no easy way to finish this problem without civilian casualties.

THE POINT IS: There is not a good guy in this “little” war. Only victims. Putin is looking foward to charge Georgian leaders with genocide charges just like US did to Saddam and noone can say a thing because US did it first. However, is not valid to act the same as others did because killing is just wrong.

Posted by Icarin | Report as abusive

Somebody asked:

Why is no one western country offer a simple help (medical, food, etc) to the thousand and thousand osetian civilians flee from battlefield?
===========================
Because we can’t GET to it! All the airfields and roads have long been controlled by Russia. Besides: Russia wants the credit for all the humanitarian aid to the refugees.

Posted by Matt J. | Report as abusive

Hopefully this will remain just a cold war between Russia and the US. Bush has already squandered our troops on a war in a country that did not threaten the US.

Posted by Neal | Report as abusive

Lacy says:

8:10 pm GMT

While Russia has a history of aggression, wake up, Georgia clearly started this and Russia can not be blamed for its prompt response. What were the Georgians thinking?!? South Ossetia is just as much a part of Russia as any other faction or state making up its country. I am in favor of the cease fire, but I think it is absurd Georgia thought anything but this could happen upon their violation on international boarders and fire on a country…of all countries…RUSSIA.
================================
Not that clear. Remember that Saakashvili said from the beginning this was in resonse to S. Ossete military action. Now I admit it is hard to see what military action could have justified the indiscriminate bombing of Tskhinvali, but this is the question that will have to be answered at Saakashvili’s war crime trial.
BTW: obviously I do not expect a fair trial from Russia. Besides: Georgia is a signatory to the ICC, so the ICC should try him.

What were the Georgians thinking? The question should really be: what was Saakashvili thinking? The timing was his idea, after all. And it was clearly both morally and tactically wrong.

But here is where you start sounding like a Kremlin stooge: no S. Ossetia is NOT part of Russia. That is the Kremlin’s big lie they have been spreading ever since they sent their ‘peacekeepers’ to the region. That is the lie they use to rationalize their occupation.

And what is this nonsense of violating “international borders”? Georgia didn’t do this, Russia did. According to international law, both Abkhazia and S. Ossetia both still belong to Georgia: it is only the right to administer it they temporarily lost due to the 1990-92 treaties under which the ‘peacekeepers’ take that right.

And if they had confined their activities to legitimate peacekeeping, all this would never have happened. But instead, they insisted on acting as occupiers, giving Russian passports to Georgian citizens, supporting separatist governments, and in general, running the provinces as their own.

Who do you think is getting all the tax and customs revenues? Georgia gets none of it. And Abkhazia was always the richest province!

Posted by Matt J. | Report as abusive

It seems rather obvious that the Russians had planned this all for some time. The military forces brought into the Georgian region would have taken some real preperation and planning. Nothing and nobody moves that fast. I antcipate that in the next few day that the Russian military will be in control of the formerly democratic state of Georgia.

Posted by Ken | Report as abusive

Saakasvili gambled with lives thousands of peoples. Ordered shelling sleeping Tshinvali at 6am. Killed hundreds may be thousands. He should be tried and punished for this crime.

Posted by Ralph | Report as abusive

Russia’s history of brutality is beside the point. In this case we all saw that Saakashvili started the war. And the fact that Russian troops poured in – within hours – is also beside the point. Even if he was provoked, Saakashvili should have realized that starting a war – especially against RUSSIA – can have unexpected consequences. The only sane solution now is for Saakashvili to resign – in order to save his country. Let him retire for “health reasons” or some other excuse to save face. His successor may be able to negotiate Georgia’s territorial claims – but Saakashvili cannot. If this action did not pacify Russia and lead to a peaceful result then – and only then – we would know that we should deal very strongly against Russia.

Posted by LN | Report as abusive

Putin is the new Stalin, a comunist lowlife and eventually his brand of totalitarism will be defeated by the law abiding nations of the world. He hasn’t forgotten about the KGB ways.

As a more or less independent view in the present conflict, I’d say that it is clear the Georgia created the present situation by attacking during the Olympics. I also suspect that there was some behind-the-scene support from USA in this action. Now, Russia is using this opportunity to push ahead.

After US actions of “regime change” in several countries including Kosovo, they can hardly criticize Russia. But they are just doing that. The fact is that in this unipolar world, US has become so shameless in dealing with other countries that US thinks it even decides what is moral or not.

The world politics is marked by US double standards, which can be seen here too. With a resurgent Russia, such conflict of interest will result in a new cold war…and it might just get hot.

There are numerous prophecies which speak of a Russian invasion in Germany resulting in WW-III following a middle eastern war and tension between Russia and US fleets in the Mediterranean and an assassination in the Balkans.

Everyone thought that Russia was finished. This conflict no doubt takes us closer one step towards WW-III.

Posted by hulo | Report as abusive

I’m afraid everyone’s correct. It all depends on which perspective you are looking at. Russians believe that they are correct in their actions and Georgians believe they are also correct from their point of view. There is no way US did not know the attack was going to take place, there are military advisers in the Georgia. This is the same game more powerful countries have played for a long time. This was a calculated risk in order to convince some in the west to accept Georgia into NATO. Like a classic chess move, sometimes its ok to sacrifice your pawn to get a bishop or a queen.

Posted by MD | Report as abusive

“South Osetia is NOT a part of Russian Fed. It’s part of Georgia” somebody insist on ibid viewpoint,why you insist same point on kosovo???
“How can you have a peace making army?
Armies are meant for war and conflict, not for peace.”
Why you not say this with US army in Iraq?The demos want the US army garrison their domain for ever?Dot say they are impuissant.the earth circumgyrate everyday,not lie on AMERICAN ARMY.

Posted by lion | Report as abusive

Oceania is now at war with Eurasia. Oceania has always been at war with Eurasia. Eastasia is now our ally. Eastasia has always been our ally. All hail BB – sorry, GB – for the new, happy life he has bestowed upon us!

I just do not understand how President Bush can say that Russia is using too much force and have any credibility. When Israel bombed the crap out of Lebanon a couple of years ago for kidnapping 2 solders, President Bush did not say that Israel was using too much force and let Israel do as they please. This is typical of the Bush administration’s double standards and that is why the world sees the USA in a much different way then before. /sigh

Posted by John | Report as abusive

READ PLEASE: The simmering conflict between Russia and its small, former Soviet neighbor Georgia erupted late on Thursday when (Georgia Sent Forces) into South Ossetia, a Small Pro-Russian Province which threw Off (Georgian Rule in the 1990s).

Russia, which had Provided Support to the Separatists and had PeaceKeepers Stationed in the Province, responded by Pouring Troops and Heavy Amour south through the Caucasus mountains into South Ossetia to Drive back the Georgians.

The conflict alarmed the West, which views Georgia as a Valuable, if VOLATILE ALLY, because of its Strategic Location on an Energy Transit Route Carrying OIL from the Caspian to Europe.

Georgia was (Wrong) and Russia was (Right),as We were,when we 1st Kicked Out, then Invading & Rading (Iraq Military) when they sought to Overtake (Kuwait)…

Russia did the same thing, like it or not.

The Georgian Governments knew what they were doing, in Attacking Osettia and Knew what Time to do it, as if Nothing would be done about it…

They were WRONG !!!

What is George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Condoleeza Rice, going to do about this…

Ask to Mediate along with NATO, The European Union, The United Nations and World Leaders to …

Mediate, otherthan that…Nothing

They’d be Foolish to do anything, otherthan that !!!

After all is said an done Georgians will Retreat, sign an Agreement to Never enter Ossetia again.

BIG NOTE: Kuwait was Once a part of (Iraq) Kuwait became a Nation and based on it’s Oil Richness and Big Output of OIL, this TINY Nation called Kuwait, became the USA’s Oil PlayBox and so we put Kuwait under our Protection.
————————————-

Posted by Omaar | Report as abusive

Looks like Georgia started this scrap last Thursday. Regardless of history, it’s been relatively quiet for more than 10 years. Why stir up a hornets nest? What did the Georgians expect? They “were agressors” if you are a Russian or a citizen of South Ossetia, or “victims” if you are Georgian or the US government. Either way, people got killed. There was no need to start a ruckus. Georgia pushed and they got pushed back hard. They’ll think twice before taking that step again. In this case, even as an American citizen, I’ll back Putin.

Posted by Daniel jones | Report as abusive

Quite right. But the fact is that it is a gamble and there is no way of knowing whether they will get a bishop or queen or lose their own king. But surely the whole lot of pawns on both sides will be dead and the at the end of it, there might not be any winner.

Posted by hulo | Report as abusive

The end days are upon us.

Posted by Kevin | Report as abusive

This has been planned by Russia for a longtime. But now the question is what’s the response from the West!! US is week and EU is coward. However, there has to be a response or Ukraine is next.

Yes, never trust the Russians. They are the true barbarians and outright stupid.

I hope all the financial institutions take notice. Russia needs to be expelled from G-8 and and any other multilateral organizations.

In the meantime, the US Navy or Air Force needs have plan ready and target ready in Russia to bomb when the invasion of Ukraine starts. This will be a lot bigger than Iraq.

Posted by Amit | Report as abusive

Who are all these people, speaking of NATO and the G8 and sanctions and unjust invasions and such? Do any of you really believe you know what is going on? Hah, what a joke. You speculate blindly, and don’t even realize a small portion of the truth. Hot-headed idiots. Your blood runs hot out of your necks as you too are sent to be slaughtered in such places where your hot-headed idiocy is gladly encouraged. You will be given nice tools to bleed each other with, and I will watch, laughing at you and despising you on television. Why don’t you all just shut up and read something in the shape of a book? How about you start with 1984. Oh wait, that would be boring wouldn’t it? Read? Think? No, much easier to form an opinion and bleed out of the neck for it, right? Haha, GO FOR IT!!!! I need my entertainment!

Posted by Hatred | Report as abusive

Im totally confused by U.S and U.N

Posted by an | Report as abusive

Welcome to Russia! Friends, we are not agressors… We are peace people, but our armoured train is on the siding. If you will see the CNN report, you understand that Saacashvili is crazy man. We are not going to Tbilisee… it’s nonsense. Poeple who living in Osetia and Abhazia are hate Georgia, and never will be live with them in unit country.
PS: sorry for my English…

Posted by Konstantin | Report as abusive

The occupation of Ukraine by Russia – 1650s
Russia – Crimea – 1783
Russia – Poland – 1795
Russia – Eastern Georgia – September 21, 1801; April 1802
Russia – Georgia (1810-1864)
Mass murdering of 1 Million Caucasians by Russia – 1859-1880
Russia – Japan – 1905-1905
Russia -Poland – 1920
Russia – Azerbaijan – 1920
Russia – Armenia – 1920
Russia – Poland -1939
Russia – Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia – 1940
Russia (USSR) – Finland – 1940
Russia (USSR) – Hungary – 1956
Russia (USSR) – Czechoslovakia – 1968
Russia (USSR) – Afghanistan – 1979-1989
Russia – Georgia – 1919, 1920 (April-May), 1921, 1924, 1991-93
Russia – Georgia – August 2008……………………………… … ????????????

Posted by Alexander 50 RUS | Report as abusive

1. russia is a democracy officialy
2. georgia would still be a democracy under a democratic russia
3. nato intervention will be limited to advisers and intelegence operations. many european nations do not want to intervene. the fear of having to deal with the shanghi cooperation organization a russia-china military organization that is 3 times the size of nato is very real
4. russia will eventually pull out of georgia within the end of the month due to lack of national support in russia and international talks

Posted by DWB | Report as abusive

This is nothing more than greed on the part of russia. Do you think Putin didn’t pick this time (ie the 2008 olympics are going on) & (u.s. troops being tied up) since it was convenient for him/russia? As he thinks no one will be watching since the olympics are on…Putin is ex-KGB and is nothing more than an evil killer-how many innocents did he murder before coming to power…who knows. The russians are bombing civilian targets of Georgia and killing civilians. This is a staright forward imperial takeover of an independent country and has nothing to do with any russians living in georgia (georgia has less than 1.5% russian population). If the russians don’t leave, the U.S. may eventually send in troops-this could be the start of WW3.

Posted by Dude | Report as abusive

The US must stop Russia NOW! I understand that are forces are thin right now, but remember Georgia has been with us 6 years, 6 YEARS! in Iraq! fought along side are men and women we must not just threaten Russia with hollow words, we have tried that and they do not listen they will understand force! I will be the first one in line at the recruitment office to go (back in) to the service if we do! We must NOT TURN OUR BACK ON GEORGIA! they are everything we the American people swore to protect! and we must they are our friend and allies! Also to the people who think that Georgia killed 1500+ civilian’s in S.Ossetia are wrong they killed 10! Russia killed that many and more when they began targeting civilian targets in Georgia!
We must encourage are politicians to act now before its to late!
And to all the people that think Georgia started the war (YOU ARE WRONG) S.Ossetia is part of Georgia! not Russia! lets “pretend for a sec” Ok the US gives passports to Canadians in Canada lets say in BC. then we put 3,000 US troops in Canada to protect a new citazins living there, then some people in BC want to be part of the US and start fighting Canada, the Canadians attake the rebals in BC 10 of US (peace keepers) get killed and the US launch’s a all out astult on Canada. HMMMMM that does not make much sence to me….. So tell me again how Georgia started this fight with Russia. like I just showed you it would be like Canada started this fight with the US.

Posted by mike kruse | Report as abusive

On the subject of Georgia/Russia and Ossetia…..an article in yesterdays NY Times had it about right for my ideas as to what HAS happened. When US/Euro/Nato involved themselves in the action of Kosovo breaking away from Serbs and Croats (Macedonians and Albainians–Enver Hoxha would be spinning in his grave over this…) the Russians TOLD the Americans and others at the UN Security Council that by setting the precedence on Kosovo, they were setting the table for Ossetia breaking away (again) from Georgia. Complicating matters is Georgia’s aspirations to join NATO, putting a big thorn in the underbelly of Russia and blocking their lines of communication with Iran…. Now that this chess move is underway, the response from the US would/should be to shut up or trade Iran for Kosovo…since Russia has been “supporting” the US in Iran re the nuclear “agenda”.

Pretty clear to me that the cowboy mentality has been usurped by the “old European” ways of politics and diplomacy. In short, it is obvious to the entire world that Putin is still a Master at his game, especially in his own back yard.

“Let the games begin”/Checkmate.

Bests,
John
vpocv@hotmail.com

the U.S has no right to pass judgement on Russia’s attacks! and I assure you they are not dumb enough to get involved. We can’t even handle Iraq, and when was the last time the U.S actually won a military conflict with someone that actually had an army?

Posted by Beto | Report as abusive

I believe what neither Georgian people nor Russians and Osetians wanted the war. However it was saakashvily who initiated the hostilities. Just after his assurance of everlasting peace georgian troops started shelling South Osetia capital which didn’t have any military importance, but was inhabited by peaceful civiliants as you and me! I want to emphasize that the bombardment was made from volley-fire systems which can’t be targeted at military units presicely and shoots on squares and as a consequence causes huge number of victims.
WHAT FOR THIS MASSACRE???? It is the only thing I am wondering if Saakashvili didn’t want the war!!!!
All this resulted in the death ot 1 600 – 2 000 citizens of Osetia, perfidious attack on Russian peacemakers with finishing off the injured soldiers… Please take into account that about 80-90% of the Osetian people have Russian passports, i.e. they are the citizens of the Russian Federation.
And here comes another question: what reaction from Russia did saakashvili expect when it’s citizens are being exterminated?
Just try to imagine that 1 600 – 2 000 Americans or Europeans were killed villainously (but certainly I hope it will never happen). How would you react? Would there be any grade or limit to the respond? I guess nobody would dare calling this reaction disproportional in this case, as it happened after the 11th of September, 2001.
Defenately saakashvili is a criminal after all this. And he ought to be condemned the same way as former Serbian leaders are suited.

Besides, I believe Western countries make a mistake by supporting saakashvili. By the way Georgia has lots of problems with opposition suppression and freedom of media. And now this terrible attack on Osetia! Do you call it democracy? I would name it hypocrisy! Saakashvili totally sullied his reputation as a peaceful seeker if not as a person who possesses common sense. This casts aspersions on ideals of democracy in general.
But saakashvili makes friends with Washington and it forgives him everything!

And concerning revival of Soviet totalitarian ambitions and plans to conquer everyone – is it Russia who is expanding it’s military facilities and infrastructure all over the world? Just compare defense budget expenditures in US and Russia!

Posted by El Sabio | Report as abusive

There seems to be so much rhetoric in this discussion. There are too many posts with typical propoganda and general blame pushing. If Ossetia is actually a “Liberated” part of Georgia then it would be considered a part of russia. Instead it is still considered a rogue state in Georgia. Georgia has every right to try and instill law in its lands and Russia has every right to protect its citizens. They could have done this like any other sensible country would do with their personnel in a foreign and issue public safety warning telling them to get out and assisting them in every possible way. Instead they invade. It is a typical communist approach to the situation. Flex. Show the world what happens. Prove you are headed back to your former “Glory”. Russia doesn’t understand that the western world is not afraid of it anymore. Everyone has seen what russia is. Try and blame the U.S as much as you want. Not being a U.S citizen it is pretty easy to not take sides but instead I have. Russia needs to realise that if it pushes it will have the EU and U.S with all their allies against it. It may be another world war but I don’t think that Russia will be able to take it that far again. They can’t afford it nor can they risk another Deep depression as with the one which followed the cold war. All in all it was either a very poor move to put so much force and power into Georgia or a very calculated one.

Posted by Charlie | Report as abusive

To Dave: “As far as I’m concerned, South Ossetia was never recognized as an independent country by the world. As far as the world is concerned S. Ossetia and Abkhazia are both territories of Georgia”.
____________________________________

But why Cosovo was recognized as an indepedent part of Serbia, and Osetia and Abkhazia were not? Double standarts. Georgia and Cosovo are pro-american unfortunatelly for Serbia and Osetia.

“Russia obviously has an issue with this as they want those territories for themselves”
______________________________________

Russia is the biggest country in the world it has vast massives of it’s own unassimilated land. Do you really believe that it would breake out a war for occupation of regions which don’t have any natural resourses, developed cities, important infrastructure, trading routes or other valuable assets? There are only rocks there! Besides these countries are underdeveloped economically. That means they are sure to be sponsored from the Russian budget.
Frankly speaking there is an opinion that Russia would benefit if it refused from these regions and leave them for their own and avoid donating them. But the people of Osetia are citizens of the Russian Federation and it’s a must to protect them

Posted by El Sabio | Report as abusive

Russia is an pure aggressor and is nothing to discuss about it. I’ve seen the war in Kosovo and I don’t wish to anyone to see or worst feel the war tensions.
But Kosovo was totally different, it was the part of Yugoslavia Federation which no more exist.
Russian on this argument plays on two standards, first they get at USA and West countries for taking Kosovo form Serbia,on the other hand attack an independent country for taking his province.
I think and a blind man can understand this clear situation of Russia & the new cold which they are trying to start.

Posted by Alban | Report as abusive

Tragedy in South Ossetian villages Satikary and Khetagurovo

In the beginning of South Ossetia assault, Georgian armed units attacked Satikary village of Tskhinvali district. Eyewitnesses testify that after the first shots, the locality with 170 houses was struck with panic: people in despair run out in the streets and scattered in different directions without knowing what happened.

Majority of them aimed to shelter themselves in the woods. Due to this fact, some of the village inhabitants managed to escape. The militiamen were engaged in their rescue as well. Also from eyewitness reports, the death of one of militiamen, Leonid Doguzov, became known. 45-year-old militiaman covered the withdrawal of civilians but was killed during the fire-fight. Later, his home-folks counted six killed Georgian soldiers around him. The relatives buried Leonid Doguzov in the garden of his own house after the fighting. His little children, a boy and a girl, and his wife escaped by the miracle. The militiamen conveyed them in a place of safety, then transported to Dzhava district, and eventually they were sent to North Ossetia.

According to Doguzov’s relatives who got in touch with their home-folks on the phone, Satikary village remains in hand of Georgian armed units. The tanks belonging to the Georgian army are still situated in the village. There are the evidences that some part of the village, mainly invalid and old people who were unable to escape into the woods during military attack, have been taken hostage and transported to Georgian city Gori.

The tragedy also took place in Ossetian village Khetagurovo. Here, Georgian soldiers succeeded to take hostage group of people, among whom there were the girls, women, and elderly people. There were the eyewitness reports that the Georgian soldiers sexually assaulted the group of girls and young women. In this village, people were squashed by the apron wheels of the tanks as eyewitnesses said.

Posted by Red | Report as abusive

Look how the reporters of the world-known Reuters news agency are working. It is they who supply the world with “truthful information”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-VIU5StZ p0

Posted by Red | Report as abusive

I live in Russia.
CNN & BBC show starts of rockets which are started by Georgians on peace inhabitants of South Ossetia and speak, that Russia bombs Georgians!
Saakashvili fills in with water (on channels of an irrigation) Tskhinvali that peace inhabitants could not be hidden more in cellars from its mortars! The Georgian snipers who have surrounded Tskhinvali, shoot at heads of women and old men! You do not see it, but witnesses of events speak about it all. Saakashvili has wiped out city for one day and has destroyed 1500 peace inhabitants.
Russia is not guilty in these events. This war is not necessary to Russia.

Posted by And | Report as abusive

When will all humans learn that we a simply all humans and that we should learn to just live and let live. We let a tiny percent of the population control and govern this beautiful earth so death, destruction, corruption and greed can prosper. Everything is a perception, we all perceive things differently. Who is right – who is wrong – BUT most of all, who cares. Lets look after our planet and ecosystem and nurse our beautiful mother back to health so she can reward us with a life. We poison our mother with our greed, but remember we need our mother to survive.

Posted by Tixilix | Report as abusive

(Spare us from your twisted delusions, Locus publicus. At least truth is debateable in a democracy, not so in a totalitarian form of government.- Posted by John Blank )

Dear John how debatable was truth when your democractic government (USA) toppled south American countries socialistic governments to bring democracy. Millions died. For what…to bring democracy?? How sure are you of the democratic nature of the Georgian government. How democratic is it that Georgia tried to forcefully assimilate people that chose not to be part of that country by choice and referendum. Who are you to deny the choice of South Ossetia. John, democracy is as big a lie as any other governmental system. Wake up. In the end it is moral that the South Ossetian people determine their future for themselves.

Posted by Locus publicus | Report as abusive

All that foreign media did not write the truth, why you are cheating the whole world, not attacking Russia, Georgia began to bomb South Ossetia, 2000 died peaceful peoples. Georgian troops to pursue the Russian peacekeepers, raping women, looting houses and shops. Flood basements where people are hiding. Saakashvili puppet in the hands of American and fas?ist. Russia Return!!!

Posted by Vladimir | Report as abusive

Well guys.. As I can see, many of you do nat really understand the situation. I’m from Moscow, but I regulary read foreign papers, so I can estimate situation from various sides.
In two words: Shame on west!
For 5 years (2003 – to date) US trained and armed Saakashvily’s boys… What was the purpose? I’m absolutly confident that Abkhasia & South Osetia could be a part of Georgia if Saakashvili spent that bilions of dollars (500 mln – only for weapons from Israel) for friendship & infrustracture of these republics. Infrustracture was damaged during previous Georgian wars. But US & saakashvili chose another way. It’s about Georgain & US concept.

Now about details. Georgian operation started with GRAD firing attacks. You know what is GRAD (hail)? It is an unguided missile system. One volley covers 145000 m^2.. Suitable weapon for cleaning the city from separatists, hm???
Second: there were 500 peacekeepers armed only with rifles, machine guns and armorded cars. Georgians unleashed artillery, GRAD & tank strikes on them. The wounded were killed with extreme cruelty. What for?

Conclusion: georgians killed civillians (many of them were citizens of Russian Federation), they killed peacekeepers (obviously – to provoke Russia). What did they get after this? Exactly what thay diserved!!!

For those of you who don’t believe me – search for sources… Or (if you are too lasy or too.. hm…) try to remember what US & NATO did to Serbia during the war in Kosovo (massive bombardment of capital – Belgrad, civilian and military infrastructure, etc.). So just sit and wait while we decide it’s enough.

Now about the number of wars (the same comment was posted by “different” athours).
1.Half of that wars were initiated by Russia’s opponents.
2.Try to count US wars (the last 20 years – Grenada(89), Somali, Iraq (91), Ugoslavia, Iraq(94), Serbia(99), Afganistan, Iraq…). Seems enough ))
3.During last 100 years Georgia was independent for 21 years at all. During those periods of independance Georgia started 7 wars. Not bad for 5 mln counyry.

RUSSIA IS THE BALANCE OF POWER NEEDED IN THE WORLD TODAY, TO COUNTER THE US AGRESSION ON THE ENTIRE WORLD. THIS AGRESSION IS BROUGHT ON US BY THE ALL-POWERFUL US JEWISH LOBBY….ON THE BACKS OF THE US TAXPAYER.

THE NEW YORK JEWISH MEDIA KEEP THESE FIRES WELL-STOKED, AND HAVE HINDERED A TRULY FINE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (RON PAUL) FROM BEING SEEN AND HEARD. YOUR VOTE FOR RON PAUL IN NOVEMBER IS LEGAL….AND STILL MAY GET HIM ELECTED.

THIS WILL STOP MOST OF OUR PROBLEMS ABROAD.

RUSSIA IS WELL WITHIN THEIR RIGHTS TO PROTECT THEIR FLANKS.

THIS COMMENT WILL AGAIN BE QUASHED BECAUSE IT ADDRESSES THE TRUE PROBLEM….AND REUTERS IS A PART OF IT.

Posted by ART DEKKO | Report as abusive

Military operation ” Clean Field” which was tried to execute, by Georgian forces, on the civilians in Osetia, was prepared by USA military instructors and is proven method to make fast ethnic cleansing in some part of the world. The USA instructors and US air forces succeeded to do similar operation named “Oluja” – Storm in Croatia with Serbian civilians, more then 10 years ago. Normally nobody in the western media did not published that.
Unfortunately for Georgia and his clever president on the other side was Russia, and not stupid Milosevic. The price will pay Georgia and their people. Clever Georgian president allowed himself to be involved in crime against humanity and civilians and on that way take mark on all Georgians. This type of crimes are regular for some superpower Iraq, Afghanistan,Serbia,Guantanamo, Nicaragua, Vietnam, maybe Iran etc. I repeat that this military operation is against civilian. On the end result is: that only light in nowadays world against USA tyranny is Russia which succeeded to save innocent civilians from genocide well prepared in USA kitchen. Thanks god Russia arising.

Posted by Branislav | Report as abusive

Its a shame that the Russians took such a devastating route in the crises. But if Georgia started the conflict, then they obviously paid the price. Maybe a new president is in order. As for the Russians, well they just want to try to prove they are still powerful. But why would the US want to start world war 3 over a small satellite country? When we take out Iran, then the ruskies will have something to worry about. Bomb their oil refineries, and once again Russia will be out of the picture. We are still the worlds only superpower! You europeans forget who saved your butts during the Hitler era! If it was not for us, you would be a communist! Wait, YOU are communists!

Posted by Ken | Report as abusive

i firmly believe that US will not get involved militarily, not because they can’t win it but they have other tools at their disposal. after the cold war, the Russian military was at a standstill or at a decline. assuming US and Russia were an even match during the cold war (which many analyst believe they are not, although Russia was more in certain military technology) they US has at least a decade ahead in investments in development and advancement in military research. Russia on the other hand will not risk a confrontation with the west. They owe much of their current economic growth to foreign investments, which will instantly evaporate if conflict is to start with the west.

Posted by MD | Report as abusive

Quite the heated torrent here. Congratulations for reading this far.

If it isn’t obvious to you by now, let me suggest that probably 2/3 of the postings here are either direct propaganda or people just repeating the propaganda they’ve heard. Anybody can post *anything* here, with absolutely no accountability. So why do we even bother to read it? Why am I even bothering to contribute? I think it is to restore my belief that there are still a few of us out here who can think.

All of the reputable reports are completely understandable as the kinds of things one might expect given both sides’ positions in this conflict, even with openly announced intentions. The deaths of civilians should not come as a surprise. The appearance of civilian lives being intentionally targeted is not necessarily a reflection of true intent. Russia’s attacks, at least on military targets, throughout Georgia are simply militarily prudent, given the conflict. Georgia’s initiation of hostilities against the Russians “peacekeepers” already on Georgian land were also completely understandable given the political developments of late. It is all quite understandable, given each side’s reasoned position. How to say whether one side is more right than the other in their disagreement is beyond me, and probably any of us.

The rest of the allegations here, about genocide and atrocities and so forth, these are completely and totally unsubstantiated. That doesn’t mean that they are all untrue. But even when a report is factual, it does not mean it reflects the complete truth about the situation. Even the reports of the snipers intentionally killing civilians could be factual, but there are so many possible explanations behind it that we still know nothing. These could be Russian special agents performing these atrocities as a part of a campaign to smear Georgians, consolidating any Ossetians that were otherwise undecided in their loyalties. These could be renegade racists from Georgia acting without any official sanction or support. These could be military snipers from Georgia who are acting against orders. Or the civilians could be engaging in efforts directly supporting the “invaders”. Similarly, you should be able to reflect that we really do not know the truth about *any* of these unsubstantiated reports.

Very little truth is available to us at this point.

Unfortunately, it is well known that some racial hatred exists in the hearts of men, and that genocidal intentions sometimes come to light in otherwise well-meant endeavors. Georgians have always said that “Russia wants Georgia — without the Georgians.” But does that really explain the Russians’ reported bombing of civilian targets throughout Georgia? Probably not. But once open hostilities begin, the worst and ugliest parts of the hearts of men find opportunity for expression. And that goes for all men. No matter how just the cause (and especially when unjust), war will inevitably bring out evil actions from all sides.

Apparently that goes for bloggers as well.

Posted by onlooker | Report as abusive

It’s hard to find who’s right and who’s wrong under those circumstances.
But I think that Georgia is far more aggressive than it should. If Russia was as aggressive, it would destroy the majority of the armed forced of Georgia and change its regime, in about 2 weeks of full-scale war, in a US-style manner. Russia can certainly do that, but it didn’t.
Consequently, I think that Russia’s answer to Georgian surprise attack was legitimate – and expected.
I also think that Georgia will cause more instability in the future in the Caucasus region.

Posted by Theo | Report as abusive

Both parties are to blame in this unfortunate mess. What you have here are two stubborn governments, who’s heads are too thick to consider a better way to resolve the issue. Georgia threw the first punch when it bombed the capitol city in South Ossetia. Russia blitzed it’s way carelessly through the region, and hit targets outside of the “flashpoint”.

Neither are innocent of fault and both have escalated the conflict.

That is simply all that needs to be said. There are far too many comments that are immature and bias towards one party. Most of the commentators have no idea what they are talking about, and they truly have no interest in global issues. To them the this conflict is just entertainment.

Posted by Will | Report as abusive

WHAT IMPRESSES ME, IS THAT SO MUCH SHOULD BE MADE OF RUSSIAN ACTIONS, WITH THE YANKEE DOODLE DEVILS SURROUNDING THEM (AND EVERYTHING IN THE MIDDLE EAST AS WELL).
BARELY A WORD IS UTTERED REGARDING THE US AND ISRAELI BOMBERS FROM HELL, SLICING PEOPLE IN SHREDS WITH CLUSTER BOMBS AND THE LIKE….WITH US TAX DOLLARS OF THE COMMON FOLK (WHO CAN’T VOTE THESE HEINOUS CRIMES DOWN). THEIR “DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED” ROTTEN LEADERS CAN CLAIM A MANDATE. THESE “LEADERS” ARE CHOSEN FOR AMERICANS BY THEIR JEWISH MEDIA….AND THEN WE CAN VOTE FOR OUR CHOICE OF “THEIR CHOICE”.
THIS ROTTEN BUNCH THEN INVADES THE WORLD “AT WILL”.
THE WORLD DESPERATELY NEEDS RUSSIA TODAY….AND PUTIN LOOKS LIKE A STRONG LEADER TO EVERYONE (WHO IS UN-BIASED).
THE AMERICAN MEDIA, BRITISH AND FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTERS (BOTH JEWISH) AND BUSH’S PUPPET-MASTERS CONTROL THE PROPAGANDA MILL….TO KEEP THE LITTLE GUYS CONFUSED.

AMERICA NEEDS RON PAUL….NOW.

Posted by ART DEKKO | Report as abusive

I have to agree with the last 2 statements … both parties are at fault. Its just a shame innocent lives are lost. But that happens in every conflict its sad when people cant sit down and just work out things instead have to resort to violence. Shame on both presidents of both countries … they both should resign and the new leaders sit down and talk about how to fix the situations leading to this current conflict so it doesnt happen again.

Posted by Shaun | Report as abusive

Bring back the draft. Now . We didnt like the russians in our back yard either. show of strenth is now called for.not weakness. lets stand together.

Posted by s mueller | Report as abusive

[...] Wikipedia, BBC News, Sky News, Fox News, Reuters, The [...]

W.H Lindeman – do you really believe that only other countries media is controlled and censored by the government or the political process???
We do not hear half of what is really going on in the world!

Posted by Jim | Report as abusive

Hi friends,
Pls wake up. Its clear that Georgia started the war.Us didnt brighten the red light or showed a greed light.When US cant even think russian missiles in Cuba or 1000 miles near to its border, why they want to provoke a potential power by installing so called missile shields in ex soviet states and tell its against Iran. So have they decided to go war with Iran, Iran has elected government and their citizens only worry is US. How they can think abt invading a soverign country like Iraq,Iran? This is what we call imperialism. Early Russia was there to counter balance. Infact we dont like any superpowers in world, but histroy has shown that its needed to avoid small wars with minor countries and for world order. It also required 2nd superpower or block to balance the power. Lets admit that both US & Russia has done everything putting their countries interest as first. Both are having similar nature. But now US has grown too much that even Europe is afraid to raise its voice against it. Early France had an independent opinion like Russia, china & India. Now it seems new president of france is also bouught like Tonny blair and new pm of UK. UK should added as next state of US since UK has lost its influence and its identity.
ONE THING IS CLEAR FOR ANY LIBERAL THINKERS, US AGGRESSIONS AND IMPERIALIMS SHOULD BE CHECKED AND STOPPED. History has shown that imperialist countries will be eventually replaced by another one, can be europe or some other blocks. So may be we wont be able to see that change,but surely america can expect their fall within next 50 – 100 years at this pace. after all its a net borrower, somebody has to finance for americans to eat and shit. Long live so called representives of peace and democracy.

Posted by vijay | Report as abusive

bb guns uk…

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