When thousands in the streets of the Ukrainian capital Kiev and the Georgian capital Tbilisi overthrew Soviet-style rulers, many felt warm in the embrace of the West.
Western support for the opposition — open and behind the scenes – helped many people overcome fear of Soviet-style reprisals to stand for days outside Georgia’s parliament in 2003 or to pitch orange tents on Kiev’s main thoroughfare in late 2004, providing a lasting image of “people power” overthrowing a stale leadership.
Washington, or at least organisations with close political ties with the Bush administration, had courted opposition parties in both countries, coaching in the methods of democracy or securing “regime-change” as they sought to end the rules of President Leonid Kuchma and Georgian leader Eduard Shevardnadze.
But the new leaders, and their teams, soon found that the attentions of an adoring West didn’t last for long. Ukraine’s team of President Viktor Yushchenko and Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko soon fell apart. 
The West grew tired of the constant bickering of the Ukrainian leaders, unable to agree on almost any policy, while a resurgent pro-Russian Viktor Yanukovich, who lost a rerun of the presidential election, encouraged unity in his own party and rose in popularity.
In Georgia, Saakashvili cracked down on post-election protests last year and now some blame him for taking Tbilisi into a war it could never win.
The war in South Ossetia has frightened Ukraine. Yushchenko was quick to turn to the United States, saying he considered “U.S. support for Ukraine to be very important”.
But has the West given up? Ukraine and Georgia have been promised membership of NATO one day but the alliance decided at a summit in April not to give them a road map to membership.
Tomas Valasek, director of foreign policy and defence at the Centre for European Reform, said Georgia could be ruled out of NATO membership for the time being. ”There will be allies who will say that this government is not creating stability, if anything it has done the exact opposite … you don’t want an ally in NATO that has a propensity to act the way that Saakashvili did.”
But it could go either way for Ukraine.
“You could argue that no one will go to war over Ukraine, and then it will be difficult to invite Ukraine into NATO,” Valasek said. “Or the allies might decide this — that it is important that we prevent Russia acting irresponsibly in the neighbourhood, and it is important to send a message to say we will not be discouraged by what happened in Georgia.”
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I agree the Chinese have made a substantial investment in America. So has the Middle East. If you read the blog I said that the Chinese and American’s have no desire for confrontation because our economies are so interdependent. It is in there look again. Ryzer really the one that thinks there is significant hostilities between US and China. I just saying if the poop hits the fan (war) we would default on all that investment. Hurting the Chinese more than the Americans cause their investment has been spent in benefit of America. Essentially giving us a Zero balance do to any enemy on a massive investment.
- Posted by ShaneMike
- Posted by ryzerYou might also point out to Shane how much of those Chinese foreign currency dollar reserves have been used to buy up stakes in American banks and corporations already!
Mike
Thank you for the compliment, but you know nothing about me so please don’t assume it is one-sided anti-American.
I am British and my wife is American, even she is amazed by how much is NOT repoted by American press since living in the UK.
She has become very frustrated with her family’s attitude now she is aware of the BS the media feeds them.
As for one sided, sorry but the topic is mainly focused on just a few participants. If we were on a different topic that involved the UK for example, you might see that I am harsher on our politicians than yours.
Britain is a tiny nation that has achieved much, but it also has a lot of ghosts in the closet, something I am not proud of.
The arrogance and Ignorance I now see coming from America brought this empire down and others before it, so lets have a look at this missile shield an example.
So US and Poland agree on the placement of 10 interceptors to be placed in Poland as part of a missile shield, protecting who from what?
US administration claim rogue states like Iran.
Iran’s nuclear capability has not even been allowed to mature to the point they can make 1 nuclear weapon yet. If they could it is estimated they will need another ten to fifteen years to develope a delivery vehicle to reach the US!
Should they do that and actually launch it, Iran would be turned into a sea of Glass in the blink of an eye, so obviously the threat from Iran doesnt really exist does it!
Many of the posts on here refer to Russia as being “third rate”, obviously no threat there then!
So tell me Mike, whats it all about? Because all I see is American expansionism of influence as practiced my many nations before as far back as the Romans
- Posted by ryzerRyzer if you think out military is not using cyber warfare you are mistaken. Our military does not even function on traditional internet now. The pentagon has a website, if you think that controls the military I hope you work for the Russians or the Taliban. They have their own satellite network which too is encrypted. We basically invented EMP so you think we would know the best defense. You can make electronics that are nearly impenetrable. So we will be flying the F22 Raptors without difficulty after EMP’s.
- Posted by ShaneShane,
- Posted by mikeI must disagree with your view of the Chinese military and their capabilities. There is considerable reason to be concerned about China in general. If you’re interested, you should look up the amount of money that we (the United States) owes to China–you would find the amount crippling if they ever called in their loans. The one point of security, albeit slim, is the fact that China is still somewhat dependent on business ties with the U.S. However, this will not continue indefinitely…When the time comes, they could completely topple our economy…it is no exaggeration.
Ryzer,
- Posted by mikeI’m not suggesting that America has a perfect record, or that its actions in the recent past were well-conceived. I disagree with quite a bit that our country continues to do. I’m simply unimpressed by your blatant hatred for the United States. You have a decidedly one-sided view of world politics. I am sorry for that…you argue your points well.
Hey John
- Posted by ryzerWhy should America be calling for Rssia’s withdrawal from Georgia when it won’t agree to pulling all its troops out of Iraq in THREE years?
Double standards perhaps?
Or maybe America has an ulterior motive to not want to leave!
Shane, not my point at all.
My point was many on here seem to show total ignorance and believe any action America undertakes is going to be a walk in the park. Those days are nearly over.
The spending of many of the countries that see America as a potential enemy of the future is focussed at the weaknesses of the American military spend, ie area’s open to exploitation.
Russia’s “third rate” military continue to fly planes that are no match for the most basic western aircraft, yet these planes will continue after a nuclear blast, will ours?
Who then has the upper hand?
So there are thousands of satelittes, why do you think it needs a missile for each of them?
Cyber warare, something else China and Russia seem to be training hard for (for Russia see 3 week attack on estonia). Wouldn’t a uploaded virus have a pretty devastating effect?
No cell phones, no Internet, no GPS, no Casualties.
It was a pretty effective dry run the Chinese orchestrated when the Pentagon was targeted. Here’s a sample….
Larry M. Wortzel, the author of the US Army War College report, said: “The thing that should give us pause is that in many Chinese military manuals they identify the US as the country they are most likely to go to war with. They are moving very rapidly to master this new form of warfare.” The two PLA hackers produced a “virtual guidebook for electronic warfare and jamming” after studying dozens of US and Nato manuals on military tactics, according to the document.
The Pentagon logged more than 79,000 attempted intrusions in 2005. About 1,300 were successful, including the penetration of computers linked to the Army’s 101st and 82nd Airborne Divisions and the 4th Infantry Division. In August and September of that year Chinese hackers penetrated US State Department computers in several parts of the world. Hundreds of computers had to be replaced or taken offline for months. Chinese hackers also disrupted the US Naval War College’s network in November, forcing the college to shut down its computer systems for several weeks. The Pentagon uses more than 5 million computers on 100,000 networks in 65 countries
Chinese military hackers have prepared a detailed plan to disable America’s aircraft battle carrier fleet with a devastating cyber attack, according to a Pentagon report obtained by The Times.
The blueprint for such an assault, drawn up by two hackers working for the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), is part of an aggressive push by Beijing to achieve “electronic dominance” over each of its global rivals by 2050, particularly the US, Britain, Russia and South Korea.
China’s ambitions extend to crippling an enemy’s financial, military and communications capabilities early in a conflict, according to military documents and generals’ speeches that are being analysed by US intelligence officials. Describing what is in effect a new arms race, a Pentagon assessment states that China’s military regards offensive computer operations as “critical to seize the initiative” in the first stage of a war.
The plan to cripple the US aircraft carrier battle groups was authored by two PLA air force officials, Sun Yiming and Yang Liping. It also emerged this week that the Chinese military hacked into the US Defence Secretary’s computer system in June; have regularly penetrated computers in at least 10 Whitehall departments, including military files, and infiltrated German government systems this year.
So, you want to go ahead believing in your invincibility, well you want be the first to lose an empire through ignorance and arrogance!
- Posted by ryzer