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U.N. plays down “guidance” on Kashmir

August 4, 2010
U.N. chief Ban Ki-moons spokesman says Ban never said a word about Kashmir.

U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon's spokesman says "guidance" on Kashmir was not an official statement from Ban

(Updated August 6, 2010 at 5:05 p.m. EDT with new remarks from U.N. spokesman Martin Nesirky.)

The United Nations is playing down a statement on Kashmir a U.N. spokesman sent to a small group of reporters last week. After India made clear that it was very unhappy with the language on Kashmir issued by the U.N. press office, the world body explained that U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon had  never uttered the offending words — at least not in an official statement.

This is the full text of what U.N. spokesman Martin Nesirky has described as “media guidance” on Kashmir, as provided to Reuters by one of the reporters who received it by email on July 28:

“In relation to recent developments in Indian-administered Kashmir, the Secretary-General is concerned over the prevailing security situation there over the past month. He calls on all concerned to exercise utmost restraint and address problems peacefully.

“The Secretary-General welcomes the recent resumption of Foreign Minister-level talks between India and Pakistan. He encourages both sides to rekindle the spirit of the composite dialogue, which was initiated in 2004 and had made encouraging progress on some important confidence building measures, and to make renewed efforts to address outstanding issues, including on Jammu and Kashmir. He underlines the need for patience, perseverance and compromise on all sides.”

On Aug. 3 Nesirky played down that email during the daily U.N. briefing:  “The Spokesperson’s Office released to the media guidance which was prepared by the U.N. Secretariat, and that seems to have been taken out of context. This was not a statement of the Secretary-General.”

Nesirky was asked a number of other questions about the “guidance” — was it genuine; what was taken out of context; was it authorized by Ban’s office; what is Ban’s view now; etc. His response was: “I don’t have anything to add.”

The seemingly anodyne statement comes as a separatist strike and security lockdown has dragged on for nearly a month-and-a-half in Muslim-majority Kashmir, a region at the core of a long-running dispute between India and Pakistan. Analysts are worried that if New Delhi fails to check the growing protests, deaths and rights violations Kashmir could slide into a fresh phase of armed uprising that could hurt peace efforts between India and Pakistan.

So where did the U.N. guidance on Kashmir come from? Nesirky said it came from the U.N. secretariat, not the press office. U.N. officials told Reuters on condition of anonymity that the text had been vetted by Ban’s chief of staff, veteran Indian diplomat Vijay Nambiar.

Allegations surfaced in the Indian press suggesting that Farhan Haq, the U.N. spokesman who emailed three U.N.-based reporters the “guidance” on Kashmir, was Pakistani and had come up with the language on Kashmir by himself. On Aug. 6, Nesirky defended Haq, a U.S. citizen born in Washington, DC.

“I really take exception to the insinuations based on ethnicity that you’ve seen and I’ve seen in Indian publications,” he told reporters. “I firmly reject them. Not only are they offensive, they are wrong.”

The question remains — does this reflect Ban’s views on Kashmir?  Privately U.N. officials say it does, though he would rather not speak publicly about the issue to avoid angering India, a politically powerful developing country and one of the top contributors of troops to U.N. peacekeeping missions around the world.

Every day, the U.N. press office issues statements on various issues. The headline on one recent press release was “Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon’s statement on floods in Pakistan.” The actual title of the press release, however, makes clear that it is Ban’s spokesman, not Ban himself, who is speaking: “Statement attributable to the Spokesperson for the Secretary-General on the floods in Pakistan.”

Similar to the Kashmir “guidance,” the statement on the flooding in Pakistan is in the third person as the spokesman explains to readers what Ban is doing and how he feels about the flooding: “In response to the tragic flood disaster in Pakistan, the Secretary-General has asked his Special Envoy for Assistance to Pakistan, Jean-Maurice Ripert, to travel to the country as soon as possible.”

U.N. officials say that this awkward wording has evolved from the fact that sometimes the secretary-general never sees the statements composed by his army of advisers and issued under his name by his press officers.

Or perhaps that wording also offers the U.N. secretariat a way to distance itself from language that backfires, as in the case of the Kashmir “guidance”?

Comments

@Rest of you haters, listen up — I have to go but don’t you dare put your dhotis down. I will be back very soon.
– The legendary and incomparable — Mirza Usman

PAKISTAN ZINDABAD.
Posted by mirusmtupsha

—This legend puts his stupid “dhoti” comment. he should know that there exists a rapidly depleting minority in his country which wears dhoti. If a dhoti wearing hindu in pakistan says a thing about Mirza;s foot long beard, a blood thirsty crowd will wipe him off Pakistan;s face—-Mirza and police being the audience.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

@you are right! It was Pakistan that stuck its nose in sri lanka (only to be kicked out), east pakistan (only to be kicked out),
Posted by mirusmtupsha

–actually East Pakistan was Pakistan’s nose cut by India in the “best interest of Pakistan”.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

@Pakistani’s

Please read some works of Nadeem Paracha, his writings are mind opening.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

“Imagine, what Hitler would’ve done, if he had nukes!”

Horrible imagination! But certainly plausible with the path Pakistan has set on to.

Posted by Seth | Report as abusive
 

Mortal1: “More of a reason for the world to collectively disarm Pakistan, of it’s nukes. Imagine, what Hitler would’ve done, if he had nukes!”

This is going to be extremely difficult. The US could not do anything even to the Taliban. Going to war with Pakistan is the worst move. And now Iran is coming on board. It is a terrible move made by the US in allowing Pakistan to acquire the nukes in order to achieve its objectives of defeating the Soviet Union. I think the USSR was lesser of the evils when compared to the radical Islamic monster that has emerged out of this war. The US did everything to deflect any attempts to catch the Pakistanis from stealing the technology, erased evidences and tipped the Pakistanis off as it was gaining against the Soviet Union. Little did it realize that one day it will face a much worse enemy. Pakistani nuclear scientists have met with Al Qaeda operatives and Bin Laden before 9/11. Now the US and its allies will have to live with the fear of dirty bombs going off in their countries. Shazad did a simple demonstration of that. This is only a precursor of what is to come. In 1993 they blasted a van load of explosives under the WTC. In 2001, they flew planes into it. Connect the dots. Short sighted approach has led to long term problems. No one is even talking about Pakistani nukes today, which must be the highest priority for everyone. Pakistan now has more nuclear arsenal and delivery systems than it really needs. Excess material is not being generated out of security concerns. They are for sale. Pakistan is going to black mail the rest of the world with proliferation threat soon. They have nothing else. With the flooding, they have lost everything. There is only their military and nukes. And they will need money fast. What they have been getting is pittance in aid. The US is focusing on the wrong enemies as usual. Earlier it was Saddam Hussein. Now it is Iran. The real villain is their ally. How comical things are!

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

KPSingh,

I agree that a grave a mistake has been made by the US/west by letting Pakistan develop nuclear weapons in the first place but the realization of a nuclear threat emanating from Pakistan, has been setting in for quite some time now, although it is mostly in the context of jihadis/rogue elements taking over their nukes. Behind the scenes, I’m sure plans have been put in place & excercises been conducted to take over/destroy Pakistan’s nukes, as & when necessary. I understand that war with Pakistan would be a bad idea (especially at this time) but I don’t think that the US/west will simply get used to jihadis blowing up bombs in our cities. If a terror attack like 9/11 (or even something on a smaller scale) were to happen in the US & it is traced to Pakistan, you can be assured that all guns will be immediately pointed towards Pakistan. I also find it hard to imagine that a country the size of Pakistan, can survive just by proliferating nuclear technology & selling weapons to rogue states. Yes, it may fill up the coffers of some Generals at the top but sooner or later, the country is bound to implode & splinter.

On a lighter note, here’s some wishful thinking regarding Pakistan’s nukes by WSJ’s Bret Stephens (older article):

http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB  :SB122939093016909205.html

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

It appears that Pakistan’s all-weather friend China is not that good a friend, not during heavy monsoons at least! Chinese government has decided to donate a HANDSOME amount of $1.5 USD while losses are estimated to surpass 10 billion USD.

Compare this to $100 millions from Saudis (Well, Oil iz well!), $10 million from “evil” Americans, $10 millions from British (whose PM openly accused Pakistan of fomenting terrorism in world).

This also requires mentioning of $5 million given by India to Haiti earthquake victims, a country whose location probably cannot be correctly pointed out on map by 90% of the Indians and have neither historical ties nor political benefits for India.

If only Pakistanis would open up their eyes and give up resorting to hatred that is eating them like a cancer…

Posted by Seth | Report as abusive
 

Mortal,

I saw the article. Remember the duplicitous nature of the Pak system – they might agree to give up their nukes, get 100 billion in the bargain and will go back to making more nukes after that. North Korea has becomea repository of such assets. And they will demand that India lay down its nukes, which India will refuse because of Chinese nukes. So the chain continues. Bribing Pakistan to give up its nukes is the most idiotic strategy. You have no idea how passionate every Pakistani is about the nukes. Money won’t make a dent. The US has put itself and other countries on danger’s course by taking up Pakistan as an ally. Many elements inside Pakistan have grown up and have become independent in their plans and actions. They may not even listen to Pakistan’s authorities soon. TTP has already started along that line. Al Qaeda is always there. I will not be surprised if LeT goes it alone if Pakistan begins towards reconciling with India. And all these elements have their network connections with elements inside Pakistani military and the ISI. They will simply blackmail any reasonable Pakistani by setting up problems elsewhere and causing the other countries to target Pakistan. Mumbai attacks were staged with that goal in mind and India is difficult to wake up from slumber. But other countries might not be as polite. If Iran explodes the nukes, the US will stage attacks against it to protect Saudi Arabia and Israel. To do that they will need Pakistan again. So Pakistan will get its money and help prolong the conflict with Iran and milk the US and its dumb allies. I do not have any idea how this monster is going to be contained.

Posted by KPSingh01 | Report as abusive
 

More dangerous than Pakistan minimal nuclear deterrence capacity is dumb people wrongly believing they are intelligent. I am referring here to dumb and dumber (Kp and mortal). These two H1B clowns think they are more knowledgeable/intelligent than America. Typical Indian unjustified arrogance. You are not special! you can write Cobol programs for 2 dollars per day, that’s it! That is the extent of your so-called competitive advantage.

Let’s review this tragic-comedy:

KP1 – If Iran explodes the nukes, the US will stage attacks against it to protect Saudi Arabia and Israel.

–Your turbaned highnesses, If US attacks Iran for the purpose of protecting Israel, it will be BEFORE they reach nuclear capability not after.

KP2 – To do that they will need Pakistan again.

–Pakistan will NOT assist against the republic of Iran.

KP3 – The US has put itself and other countries on danger’s course by taking up Pakistan as an ally

–For example the defeat of USSR which threatened all of EURASIA unlike Pakistan which threatens only India.

KP4 – It is a terrible move made by the US in allowing Pakistan to acquire the nukes in order to achieve its objectives of defeating the Soviet Union

–U.S. could do nothing. After 1971, Pakistan was assisted by Libya, Iran, Saudi, UAE financially, China and North Korea technologically.

MORTAL1 – Behind the scenes, I’m sure plans have been put in place & excercises been conducted to take over/destroy Pakistan’s nukes, as & when necessary.

–Our strategy to counter such stupidity is brilliant in its simplicity. If anyone attempts to disrupt the deterrence equation, we will let loose on India. If we go down, we are taking you for a ride to hell. Thus, it is in India’s interest to use its increasing influence to guarantee our own security!

Love.

Posted by mirusmtupsha | Report as abusive
 

I forgot the villainous evil pakistani laugh…

MUHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHA

Posted by mirusmtupsha | Report as abusive
 

You must feel perpetually defiled and dirty, knowingly having Hindu blood in your body. You see generations back, looters, thugs, rapists, genociders and murderers like Aurangzeb thought it be best to not work for an honest living, but steel from others.

It does not matter anymore. India has risen above oppressive Islamic and Colonial occupation and persevered and preserved the integrity of its culture and nation for the most part.

India is a global grade nation, with lots of billionaires, the best IT people on earth, a large amount of exports, its own Aerospace and Defence research and development and the most educated diaspora in NA, UK and world over. Indians are preferred and liked.

If you get a chance, please watch the new show “Outsourced” or “Harold and Kumar”. We Indians do not take ourself too seriosly and don’t mind integrating with others. Indians are becoming a part of mainstream culture.

— yes, but you are still ugly.

Posted by mirusmtupsha | Report as abusive
 

Pakistani PM Mr. Gilani says:

“I want to send delegations including opposition members to various countries, including Muslim states, to inform their leaders about the extent of devastation,”

Accept it or not, reading from right to left has altered their brain structure permanently and cracked their skulls. Can you imagine any other country’s PM invoking religion to separate out the help at the time of such a crucial disaster? Did “Muslim countries” really require a separate mention? Does it also mean that a food packet coming from “Non-Muslim countries” will not satiate the hunger of terrible soul on roof as much as coming from a “Muslim nation”? This exclusivism even at the hour of death is just sad!

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/fron t-page/19-politicians-to-seek-world-help -080-hh-07

Posted by Seth | Report as abusive
 

(ignoring the mumbling lunatic with a perpetual brain-itch)

KP,

The article was purely for amusement purposes. Simplistic wishful thinking at best! I’m certainly aware of the love affair, Pakistanis have with their nukes (especially after my interaction with Umair & the likes of him). But again, we also know that Pakistani leaders (millitary & civilian) are as greedy, corrupt & self-centered as they come. So, who’s to say that after a deal is made by stuffing enough $$$ in their faces, they won’t turn around to their countrymen & give it all a positive twist. Anyways, something will have to be done & the sooner the better. We’ll just have to wait & watch it unfold.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

looks like Randi Bachha ‘mirusmtupsha’ is back after getting gang-raped by pigs in the s*hithole sty called karachi. The jihadi b*s*tard’s frustration, after the rejection of his US visa application, can be seen by his obsession with H1-B & jealousy of Indians. The self proclaimed journo ch*u*tiya doesn’t realize that he’s not even qualified to clean the toilets of indians like mortal, kpsingh & others. He deserves to spend his sad & pathetic life in the hell-hole called Shi*tistan (formerly pakistan) as no country should grant visas to terrorist sh*itistanis.

@For example the defeat of USSR which threatened all of EURASIA unlike Pakistan which threatens only India.

Ch*ut*iye, that was more than 20 yrs ago. Today, Pakistan = Terroristan.

@Pakistan will NOT assist against the republic of Iran.

You will sell your mothers & children for the right price. That’s your culture & history.

@U.S. could do nothing. After 1971, Pakistan was assisted by Libya, Iran, Saudi, UAE financially, China and North Korea technologically.

Utter nonsense, You have always been a slave of the US & without US permission, your generals don’t even take a dump, let alone develop nukes.

@If anyone attempts to disrupt the deterrence equation, we will let loose on India.

You moronic c*unt, for the last time, India is close to developing a defense sheild which will detect movement of your chinese nukes (if the work). The worst case scenario would be that India will lose a city or 2 & 100 mill people but the retaliatory strike will turn napakistan into kabristan forever.

Posted by Black_Sabbath3 | Report as abusive
 

> If anyone attempts to disrupt the deterrence equation, we will let loose on India.

> The worst case scenario would be that India will lose a city or 2 & 100 mill people but the retaliatory strike will turn napakistan into kabristan forever.

Pretty casual about it all, aren’t we? I hope the people who actually have their fingers on the nuclear triggers have an inkling of the terrible responsibility on their shoulders. Psychological testing should be a mandatory part of the criteria for selection into these positions. Some of us here wouldn’t cut it, I’m afraid…

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

guys,
i guess there has been enuf hatred for past 60 years without a solution. may be pakistan can wait till 2600 AD but not the kashmiris and neither can india. i dont think any genuine (difficult to say who is genuine in these blogs) kashmiri would want to be annexed by pakistan on the eve of their first independence day (if there is one), i guess kashmiris would prefer autonomy under india instead of an independence of 1 day to be followed by annexation by pakistan. for india i believe a scotland-britain like solution is best possible way where kashmir has full independence on laws and internal affairs but overall defence, external affairs and currency remain the same. but this silly cong government has grossly mishandled kashmir.

note: a few days back i posted somethings on these rueters blogs as 007xxx but then “reuters india” allowed me to login but not post comments apparently because blog authentication was done from “reuters usa”. so now i created a account with “reuters usa”. If reuters intentionally blocked me from blogging as 007xxx then please let me know and also shut down this current login as well. and if it was some bug in “reuters india” site then its okay, bugs happen.

Posted by 777xxx777 | Report as abusive
 

May God help the flood victims of Pakistan. Everybody should donate, including all Indians, help your Pakistani brothers in time of need.

Perhaps this catastrophe will make Pakistani’s realize that militantism and hatred is a waste of time and energy, best to focus on developing your country through legitimate means and hard work, rather than terrorism.

India is always willing to help and give, as long as Paks unclench their fists.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/13/world/ asia/13kashmir.html?_r=1&hp

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-as ia-10925145

Kashmiri brothers,

Do not think we have forgotten you. We are undergoing some difficult times right now. We will be back to support you. The liberation of Kashmir from the clutches of India will be done this time. Americans are going home after seeing the resilience of our people. They could not last beyond ten years. Now there is only Kashmir left to be freed. I will soon frame the photograph of the Indian army chief signing his surrender papers to a Pakistani general. You can be an independent nation. So long as you are free, that is all matters to us. Inshallah! It will happen.

Posted by Mohammad_Anjum | Report as abusive
 

An anecdote from an insider to both friends and foes of Pakistan.. some of you may have read Ahmad Rashid’s book on the Kargil affair..
In 1999, the Mush, who planned and launched his Kargil strategy to invade and plant the flag in Srinagar, came very close to triggering a “pre-emptive tactical trike on the nuclear pads”. The collateral damage is massive leaks killing tens of thousands of innocent Pakistanis, a then acceptable risk to the Pakistan Elite. It was the then USA President Bill Clinton who put a stop to this “madness”…
The Indian General Staff, to this day, believe they can “take them out” at will, forcing the Mush and General Kayani to develop a “scatter site” strategy to thwart the Indian Generals… the downside being it is now easier for the Pakistan Taliban to “way-lay” fissonable material while its on the move from “secret” location to “secret” location… making it now a US General Petraeus nightmare..

Posted by Bludde | Report as abusive
 

@Bludde,

You can never trust Pakistan.

If Pakistani’s ISI state agency is helping the Taliban subvert NATO, as per wiki leaks and as implied by the Afghans, what is stopping the Pakistani agencies to giving nuclear material to the LeT, the Taliban, Al-Qaeda or any one else?

What confidence does the world have that Pakistan won’t start selling or turning over nuxlear bxmbs to rogue terrorists, just to get at India or the West, and claim plausible denial at the same time and keep claiming that they don’t have anything to do with it?

Are we just supposed to trust guys like Mushie, Kayani, Pasha and Kidwai, these are the same elite that kept lying to India, the U.S. and NATO. These are the least trust worthy of allies, the U.S. has ever seen.

What is stopping these liars from telling the ultimate lies….especially those to do with nuclear material?……NOTHING!

The proliferators of terrorism are the same guys who supposedly guard the Pak Nxkes.

Does anybody see a global catastrophe in the making?

Trust and integrity, there is none left in Pakistan.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

At the end of the day, the biggest road block to regional peace in South asia is the Punjabi elite in Pakistan and their maniacal need to have enemies and their warped desire to have weapons of mass destruction against a fictitiously perceived enemy.

There is no reason why India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and all other satellite countries form a strong trade pact and work together to solve all regional issues peacefully.

Pakistan’s greatest enemy, even bigger than terrorism, is real peace with all its neighbours.

Nothing terrifies Islamabad and Rawalpindi more than becoming obselete in a region that has peace, that is why they will work relentlessly to keep sowing terrorism to keep their own jobs and fill their own pockets to keep extorting cash. It is acceptable to them that a certain number of their own will suffer in the process, as potential Pakistani loses were also acceptable in Kargill.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

Mohammad Anjum said:

> I will soon frame the photograph of the Indian army chief signing his surrender papers to a Pakistani general.

Even Freud and his couch could not have brought these feelings out so clearly. And the people who harbour these feelings were probably not even born in 1971. How do we overcome a collective thirst on the part of an entire nation to avenge a perceived humiliation?

I fear that peace is very elusive…

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

This is marvellous non-violent venting of the Spleen on both sides. For you Indians agonising over the “Kashmiri violence”, allegedly egged on by ISI minions, the last half-century, the problem lies with your “pacifist” PM and the Nehru dynasty. They hail from Kashmir and accordingly blinded to the obvious solution the Chinese have so effectively used in Mongolia and Tibet. The solution is to allow the teeming overcrowded population in states like Uttar Pradesh to “migrate” to Kashmir, both muslims and hindus alike, changing the “balance of people-power” forever in Kashmir. Let Ambani spend his billions in developing Kashmir for all to enjoy, regardless of religion.

Posted by Bludde | Report as abusive
 

Two points to be noted:

1. See how even Indian commenters here are ready to accept that the Indian government has not done the right thing by the Kashmiri people? That is a ray of hope for Kashmiris. It shows there is a sympathetic ear in India itself, and Kashmiris should seek to harness the very real democratic process in India to get their grievances redressed. They just need to go about it the right way.

2. See how international opinion has swung in India’s favour? Nobody wants to offend the emerging economy (not even the UN), and Pakistan has lost credibility in the rest of the world thanks to its association with terror. As an Indian, I may be expected to be gleeful at this, but I fear this could sow the seeds of Indian hubris, which could come back to haunt the country. India needs to use the breathing space to make up for lost time and start delivering.

I think the lessons for Kashmiris are that violent protests will not work, the world is not interested in offending India and Pakistan is a spent force that cannot be relied on for support any more. The paltry amount of money people internationally have been willing to donate after the Pakistan floods shows how unpopular that country has become.

Protest peacefully by all means, and remember that pelting stones does not constitute a peaceful protest! The solution has to come from the democratic process. Independence, however attractive, will not be viable for a small, landlocked state. Merging with Pakistan is probably a worse prospect than staying in India, given Pakistan’s worsening internal situation. Flawed as it is, the Indian state is probably the only vehicle for Kashmiris to attain the autonomy and economic freedom they aspire to.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

“I will soon frame the photograph of the Indian army chief signing his surrender papers to a Pakistani general”
Posted by Mohammad_Anjum

You can definitely frame that picture but you’ll have to do it with your eyes closed, in your dreams. In the mean while, here’s a picture you can frame with open eyes:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CIwpv9vxmBI/SU onWorggrI/AAAAAAAAAMc/DzILJwrgeck/s400/1 971_surrender.jpg

Posted by Black_Sabbath3 | Report as abusive
 

@BlackSabbath, Bludde,

Anjum says:
“I will soon frame the photograph of the Indian army chief signing his surrender papers to a Pakistani general”

–>Depth of mental illness in Pakistan is so pervasive and so close to the surface that even average guys like Anjum utter such nonsense.

Sometimes I just think that India should have just finished off Pakistan by completely destroying their army in 1971, they should have completely defanged Pakistan and dismembered it completely, but the wimpy Indians of the time felt sorry for Pakistani’s and let them go and returned their POW’s. Perhaps Pakistan’s region would not be the virus that it has become.

Had the Chinese had a neighbour like Pakistan, the Chinese would have decimated and destroyed Pakistan.

It is only India that continues to use smooth, warm fuzzy cotton gloves lined with silk to handle Pakistan because I think the Indian psyche is at the end of the day pacifist and does not believe in genocides like Pakistan does.

Dum*ba*ass i*d*iots like Anjum hurl verbal diah*rea casually and this underscores the actual depth of Pakistani despair, humiliation and need for revenge at India at any cost.

If Pakistani’s don’t want peace, let them disintegrate, implode and financially collapse so the IMF won’t even give them beggar food or even scraps to eat.

All India has to do, is stay the course, leave Bakistan alone, keep their mouths shut, prosper, prosper, prosper and continually upgrade it military and have the best military defense shield on earth.

Let those individuals stoke, drown and burn in their own jealousy and vomit, Indians are blowing past Pakistan in every field at an alarming rate.

If financial collapse does not get Pakistan, terrorism, poor governance, drought and starvation WILL, as Pakistan will continue to be mismanaged.

Indians will continue to enjoy world class prestige and friendships from all civilized nations while Pakistan continues to fall into a hole, barely able to hold onto a functioning society and remaining stagnant and static in every manner. I am sure they will continue to pirate Indian movies and songs.

Indians got the money to buy the best military planes and best equipment and have an army and country vastly superior to outclass Pakistan in every way.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

G-W:
“Indians got the money to buy the best military planes and best equipment and have an army and country vastly superior to outclass Pakistan in every way.”

-With all due respect G-W, don’t be a fool, what use of all latest jets when sizeable population lives in slums and absolute poverty. The poverty levels in India and political corruption is still appaling. Countries who have made progress have to deal and overcome these issues, reality is India is not out of the woods yets. One decade of good economic growth means nothing, you have a long way to go before you can fulfill those dreams. In the process don’t worry about Pakistan, as we have shown in past three years, we can overcome huge challenges.
And remember Pakistan still enjoys the status of Major Non NATO US ally, strategic talks are underway with both US and EU.

Posted by Umairpk | Report as abusive
 

@ They could not last beyond ten years. Now there is only Kashmir left to be freed. I will soon frame the photograph of the Indian army chief signing his surrender papers to a Pakistani general. You can be an independent nation. So long as you are free, that is all matters to us. Inshallah! It will happen.
Posted by Mohammad_Anjum

—Khudda ke bande! Allah ke naam pe jhoot mat maro!

Charity begins at home. Get kashmiris the right to self-determine in so-called “Azad kashmir” and that will be a big deal. Do you know that Kashmiri nationalists who seek an independent Kashmir are banned from participation in politics of Azad kashmir. they are forced to follow “Kashmir banega Pakistan” slogan—this is a formal exercise and not a pass time slogan on the street. so do this smaller project, and to take care of your ego, we do not want a portrait of Kayani/Pasha/Zardari signing that.

Posted by RajeevK | Report as abusive
 

@G-W
The all-rosy picture that G-W is unsuccessfully trying to plaster upon reality to hide the truth behind is not serving the purpose.
- The veneer of Indian progress is not going to last. India is an unnatural state and will soon disintegrate.
- Pakistan, since its very birth, has surmounted impossible odds and has always come out winning.
- 1971 was indeed a victory for Hindus but a single event of glory in a thousand years of servitude at the hands of Muslims – Is it enough?
- 1962 Pakistan could have taken advantage of the crestfallen Indian Army to do it in but the Honorable Field Marshal Ayub Khan spared India in the hope that this will be appreciated.
- 1965 Pakistan matched Indian tit-for-tat and Indian reveries of eating at Gymkhana Lahore were shattered. Shastri died of relief having secured a ceasefire.
- 1948 Pakistan, at the very onset, tore away half of Kashmir from India.
- Kashmir – Pakistan stands vindicated that Kashmiris don’t want to stay with India. We don’t want to forcefully keep them with us either if they don’t want.
- Terrorism – Pakistan disintegrated USSR using Jihad. Pakistan has rooted out terrorism against itself in the most part – Compare this with India unable to put out Maoist insurgency that has defied such a large cowardly Army for decades now..
- Failures in Pak Politics – Politician are equally corrupt in both the nations. Pakistan had some bad moments during its brief life. Doesn’t mean will not surge back.
- Poverty in India – More than half live below poverty line.
- Pakistan facing floods – Bravely and without any help and It’s good. It will teach them a lesson at self-sufficiency.
- US+India using all their might in Afghanistan, yet failing!!! Why? ISI!!!
- NUKES – Pakistan created them? How? Isn’t it impossible for such a “Loser” to achieve this target? If they did that, can they not do anything bigger?
- Nuclear Safety – No nuclear accident as yet in Pakistan but dozens of leakages and accidents in India.

India will have to learn that Muslims in the subcontinent are a formidable, martial, proud people and have to be dealt with respect and honesty.

Posted by zeteticinksa | Report as abusive
 

Had the Chinese had a neighbour like Pakistan

— It’s a good thing Pakistan and China are not neighbors! :>

Posted by mirusmtupsha | Report as abusive
 

Flawed as it is, the Indian state is probably the only vehicle for Kashmiris to attain the autonomy and economic freedom they aspire to.

– your assumption is flawed. kashmirs don’t want autonomy, they want freedom in the form of independence.

Posted by mirusmtupsha | Report as abusive
 

Black_Sabbath3:

There is no point in rubbing Mohammad Anjum’s face in it by referring to the 1971 surrender photograph. We can see that the image has been seared into his consciousness, which is why he made that statement. I don’t believe he is the only Pakistani who feels that way either.

I find myself marvelling and shaking my head on seeing such a naked expression of desire for vengeance. India underwent a similar military humiliation at the hands of China in 1962. Most Indians do see that as a humiliation even though it happened before most of them were born.

However, the difference in the Indian and Pakistani attitudes towards military humiliation is instructive. Indians predominantly have only two feelings about the Chinese:

1. We need to learn from the 1962 experience to be militarily strong so China cannot grab Arunachal Pradesh.

2. China has made fantastic economic progress. We should try and match that.

And perhaps a third feeling in those who have thought about it deeper:

3. We need to have deep economic and trade ties with China so that China has more to lose than to gain by attacking India in the future.

I have not heard Indians say they want to see their army defeat the Chinese on the border and humiliate them. Not do they say they want to liberate Tibet in retaliation for the loss of Aksai Chin.

Why have Pakistanis chosen to react in such a negative way?

G-W is probably right in that India should leave Pakistan alone and concentrate on its own progress. The danger is that having such hatred simmering in the hearts of so many people right next door cannot be good for our health. We need to address that, and I’m not sure how it can be done.

The nightmare scenario is if some people there feel they cannot bear to see India continuing to progress while their own country is sliding backwards, and decide that a nuclear holocaust that destroys both countries is a preferable option. We can’t rule out that possibility. Pakistani ill-feeling is therefore India’s problem. I am not suggesting that appeasement is the answer. But we need to be creative in tackling this problem, because it is our problem.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

mirusmtupsha said:

> – your assumption is flawed. kashmirs don’t want autonomy, they want freedom in the form of independence.

I would be interested in hearing your response to the whole of my post and all the points I made in it, rather than the one statement that you disagree with.

I developed an argument and led up to that conclusion. I would like to hear a critique of that reasoning.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

@Ganesh Prasad,

As I said earlier, I think India is always willing to share with Pakistan, as long as Pakistani’s unclench their fists and open their hearts and minds and put the guns down and discuss the issues.

Pakistani’s are too proud and would rather die than accept help from India. Friendship with India would destroy the national Pakistani psyche and they would not know who to hate anymore. Friendship with India may actually create chaos in Pakistan and remove the tools needed for national unity.

It is such a pity that a nation remains so defiant towards Indians, even in the face of death. Perhaps, that is what they want and let God give what may or may not come, that is up to God.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

G-W,

It is probably just the Pakistani military that has a victory-or-death mentality, not ordinary people. But the military sets the tone for the whole country. While it is frustrating, it is also a source of hope because we only need to tackle the perceptions of a small group of people to effect more widespread change.

Remember that India’s one-time arch-enemy Musharraf came close to inking a peace deal that would have formalised the LoC as the international border. I think he saw the writing on the wall, that Pakistan could not sustain a hate campaign into the future given the growing disparities in economic clout and the change in world opinion in favour of India.

I think a similar mindset change needs to occur in Gen Kayani and his coterie. Once the military top brass decide to be less belligerent, the mood of the country will follow. So peace initiatives have to come from the hawks in order to be credible and sustainable.

As the Vulcans would say, “Only Nixon could go to China.” ;-)

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

Here’s a brutally frank write-up on Kashmir in the UK’s Guardian that should give us (liberal, educated Indians) pause. The author is not a Kashmiri Muslim. Nor is he a biased Pakistani or ignorant Westerner, as our convenient stereotypes go. From his name (Pankaj Mishra), he is Hindu and of Indian origin.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguardian/20 10/aug/14/silence-over-kashmir-conflict

I suffer great moral pangs on the issue of Kashmir, and articles like this only reinforce them. My only quibble with this otherwise powerful article is its complete silence on the ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Hindus (the Pundits). The author should have followed his own advice and dealt with that additional “messy reality concealed by stirring abstractions”, as he put it. But that omission should not cause us to sweep the larger issue under the carpet.

As Indians, we all know we have a certain wariness towards men in uniform (the police more than the army, which is generally invisible in daily life). How many of us would enter a police station with a jaunty step? One of the luxuries of being part of the middle or upper classes is our relative ability to lead our lives without ever coming into contact with the police. But we have all read stories in the Indian press of “death in police custody” and “encounter killings”. There is probably more than a grain of truth to what is being said about the behaviour of our men in uniform in Kashmir. False notions of patriotism should not prevent us from speaking up about it. We are humans first and Indians second. We shouldn’t go on the defensive and refuse to look seriously at the issue just because Pakistanis are raising the Kashmir issue for their country’s own opportunistic reasons.

It would be good if Indians themselves could bring pressure on the Indian government to dramatically improve the situation in Kashmir. Even if we believe that a plebiscite or independence for part of the region (the Kashmir Valley) is a bridge too far, we can at least insist on greater press access and more honest reporting on Kashmir. That may shame the authorities into providing a lighter touch and better administration.

It’s the least we can do.

Regards,
Ganesh Prasad

Posted by prasadgc | Report as abusive
 

Ganesh,

One thing that I take from the Guardian article, is that in his narative of the 2 decade-long agitation in Kashmir, the authour has not mentioned the role played by Pakistan & it’s proxy armies, even once. If I hadn’t checked his name, I would’ve bet my house that he’s a Pakistani. Having said that, the fact that he’s a hindu of Indian descent, does not give him automatic credibility on the issue, in my book.

There’s no doubt that civil rights violations have taken place in kashmir & that the Indian Govt needs to closely moniter the activities of the army there & provide speedy justice to the bereeved. I agree with you that we, as Indians need to do more & put pressure on the Indian Govt to improve the law & order situation in Kashmir & do more for the betterment of the kashmiris. I’ll be the first one to sign off on any letter/petition to the Indian Govt, demanding the above.

Posted by Mortal1 | Report as abusive
 

Ganesh, you said:

“Remember that India’s one-time arch-enemy Musharraf came close to inking a peace deal that would have formalised the LoC as the international border.”

–>Ganesh, you know, it would not be a good idea actually for the sake of the Kashmiri’s to make the LOC the defacto border without addressing the Kashmiri situation fully.

By that I mean, Pakistan Occupied Kashmir must be discussed fully, its implications, the legality of Pakistani’s being on Kashmiri soil. It is unfair to focus entirely on India to work on the Kashmiri grievances, there must be an organized and sustained focus on pakistan occupied Kashmir, if there is to be a comprehensive agreement on Kashmir.

Pakistani’s have occupied Kashmir and claimed it as their own territory without any regard for the Kashmiri’s on the Pakistani side and Pakistan is hijacking the Indian Kashmiri cause to make another landgrab on the Indian Kashmiri side….all in a gradual extensive effort to expand the Sunni Empire, through any means, even the small nation of Kashmir is being spared, they will swallow that up too to make it a part of Pakistan.

Pakistani’s care damn about kashmiri’s but are using that hollow ficitious sympathy as a trojan horse to further Sunni empire expansion.

That is why everybody has a duty to question the legitimacy of Pakistan occupied Kashmir, with regards to the right of Self determination of Kashmiri’s.

Purely focusing on India with regards to Kashmir, is actually killing the Kashmiri cause, the focus has to be of an all encompassing nature and comprehensive to include all of the land violations and 1948 UN Kashmir resolutions that Pakistan continually evades.

The legitimacy and legality of the Pakistani occupation of Kashmir must be openly questioned, the same way the Indian side is being constantly questioned.

If India is to vacate Kashmir, so must Pakistan fully and wholeheartedly, to do anything else is a complete and utter waste of time and unfair to India and mostly Kashmiri’s themselves.

The biggest humour about Kashmir is Pakistani’s yearing for Kashmiri freedom, then why don’t Pakistani’s, Punjabi settlers, the Pak Army, proxy terrorist camps, jihadi’s….all of them, why don’t they just get the fxck out of Kashmir as well? Why is India the only bad guy here?

Why the fxck do Pakistani’s have double standard here?

Pot calling the kettle black.

Posted by G-W | Report as abusive
 

The best thing for both Kashmir and India is to restructure the security forces there. Push the Army and all the assorted security forces out to the border areas and then create a completely indigenous security force for Kashmir.

Under that situation the dynamics will change considerably. When its mostly Kashmiris dying at the hands of Kashmiris, their tolerance for violence will decrease dramatically.

A rough copy of this game plan worked quite well for the Americans in Iraq. The militias they created took on the Sunni insurgents. And as soon as it became Iraqis killing Iraqis, violence rates started tumbling. Communities stopped harbouring terrorists. Indigenous and local security forces knew the terrain better and were better able to target violent extremists. And with self-preservation a concern, the local forces went after the insurgents with far more zeal than the Americans would have. It also improved the human rights issue. By the local forces knowing everybody in their areas, they were less likely to commit mistakes and target the wrong people by accident.

This is a blueprint that would serve India well. Offer the Kashmiris a chance to have an independent constabulary/gendarmarie entirely responsible for the security of the state. Heck, let them draft young Kashmiris into that force if they must. But there shouldn’t be anybody but Kashmiri residents in that force.

Then push the Army, CRPF, BSF, etc. out to the borders and put them on overdrive to cut off infiltrations. The plus side for India in this, is that troop density along border areas dramatically increases under this plan. If Pakistan wishes to then maintain its current rate of infiltrations, the amount of resources it would have to expend would be massive. This now becomes a mini-version of the Cold War strategy the Americans used against the Soviets. If the price of Pakistan’s “thousand cuts” strategy were to increase exponentially, how long would they be able to sustain it?

As it stands, using heavily armed infantry in Kashmir, is like using a hammer to swat a house fly. And all it amounts to is treating the symptom not the disease. India can’t eliminate training camps in Pakistan (not without sparking a potentially nuclear war). But it can most certainly keep the border as tight as possible and make it incredibly expensive for Pakistan to keep its current course. Just like the US-Soviet contest, India could potentially make it so expensive that Pakistan would have to choose between putting in so many resources to keep up the competition that it could end up disintegrating on its own, or to give up the contest and come to a sound long term solution that works for both sides.

All this, of course, rests on India being able to trust the Kashmiris with being able to police and secure themselves without any additional assistance from the centre (other than picking up the cheque). A little trust here could go a long, long way for India.

I have seen some writings from lower ranking Indian Army officers advocating such a strategy (the Captains, Majors and Colonels actually fighting in Kashmir). But there’s seem to be no evidence that such thinking has caught on at the top. The national security institutions in India, need to heed the advice of their officers on the ground, who understand the situation quite well and know what it takes to solve it.

Posted by kEiThZ | Report as abusive
 

Great comment Keithz!

Posted by Seth | Report as abusive
 

India has over a period of time developed a standarized response to insurgency well described by Shekhar Gupta in Indian express. Let me summarize as below:

Step 1) Throw full military might at rebels with exception of leaders of the rebel movement who are treated with kid gloves.

Step 2) continue with full military pressure till rebels realize that violence will just result in more pain no gain.

Step 3) At that point sit down and negotiate with plenty of generous concessions. Integrate rebels into polictial mainstream and democratic process. Praful Mahanta of Assam, Akali party from Punjab, et al were erstwhile rebels now full integrated.

In Kashmir, we are at Step 2. So lets wait and watch.

Several people especially Indians often assume that India is a weak and soft state given our tradition of giving generous concessions. But we are neither. We are like the bamboo that bends with the wind and survives the storm rather than the upright oak that falls down in a storm.

Our strength comes from two factors:
1) We have the advantage of large numbers – 0.5 million feet on ground in Kashmir and if we need more, we can deploy more. :)
2) Our ability to handle body bags without political fallout. No one has lost an election over death of soldiers in kashmir/Punjab/NE etc.

So holding on to status quo as long as possible works in our advantage. Patience and Fortitude.

Posted by nvrforgetmbai | Report as abusive
 

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