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U.N. plays down “guidance” on Kashmir
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U.N. chief Ban Ki-moon's spokesman says "guidance" on Kashmir was not an official statement from Ban
(Updated August 6, 2010 at 5:05 p.m. EDT with new remarks from U.N. spokesman Martin Nesirky.)
The United Nations is playing down a statement on Kashmir a U.N. spokesman sent to a small group of reporters last week. After India made clear that it was very unhappy with the language on Kashmir issued by the U.N. press office, the world body explained that U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon had never uttered the offending words — at least not in an official statement.
This is the full text of what U.N. spokesman Martin Nesirky has described as “media guidance” on Kashmir, as provided to Reuters by one of the reporters who received it by email on July 28:
“In relation to recent developments in Indian-administered Kashmir, the Secretary-General is concerned over the prevailing security situation there over the past month. He calls on all concerned to exercise utmost restraint and address problems peacefully.
“The Secretary-General welcomes the recent resumption of Foreign Minister-level talks between India and Pakistan. He encourages both sides to rekindle the spirit of the composite dialogue, which was initiated in 2004 and had made encouraging progress on some important confidence building measures, and to make renewed efforts to address outstanding issues, including on Jammu and Kashmir. He underlines the need for patience, perseverance and compromise on all sides.”
On Aug. 3 Nesirky played down that email during the daily U.N. briefing: “The Spokesperson’s Office released to the media guidance which was prepared by the U.N. Secretariat, and that seems to have been taken out of context. This was not a statement of the Secretary-General.”
Nesirky was asked a number of other questions about the “guidance” — was it genuine; what was taken out of context; was it authorized by Ban’s office; what is Ban’s view now; etc. His response was: “I don’t have anything to add.”
The seemingly anodyne statement comes as a separatist strike and security lockdown has dragged on for nearly a month-and-a-half in Muslim-majority Kashmir, a region at the core of a long-running dispute between India and Pakistan. Analysts are worried that if New Delhi fails to check the growing protests, deaths and rights violations Kashmir could slide into a fresh phase of armed uprising that could hurt peace efforts between India and Pakistan.
So where did the U.N. guidance on Kashmir come from? Nesirky said it came from the U.N. secretariat, not the press office. U.N. officials told Reuters on condition of anonymity that the text had been vetted by Ban’s chief of staff, veteran Indian diplomat Vijay Nambiar.
Allegations surfaced in the Indian press suggesting that Farhan Haq, the U.N. spokesman who emailed three U.N.-based reporters the “guidance” on Kashmir, was Pakistani and had come up with the language on Kashmir by himself. On Aug. 6, Nesirky defended Haq, a U.S. citizen born in Washington, DC.
“I really take exception to the insinuations based on ethnicity that you’ve seen and I’ve seen in Indian publications,” he told reporters. “I firmly reject them. Not only are they offensive, they are wrong.”
The question remains — does this reflect Ban’s views on Kashmir? Privately U.N. officials say it does, though he would rather not speak publicly about the issue to avoid angering India, a politically powerful developing country and one of the top contributors of troops to U.N. peacekeeping missions around the world.
Every day, the U.N. press office issues statements on various issues. The headline on one recent press release was “Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon’s statement on floods in Pakistan.” The actual title of the press release, however, makes clear that it is Ban’s spokesman, not Ban himself, who is speaking: “Statement attributable to the Spokesperson for the Secretary-General on the floods in Pakistan.”
Similar to the Kashmir “guidance,” the statement on the flooding in Pakistan is in the third person as the spokesman explains to readers what Ban is doing and how he feels about the flooding: “In response to the tragic flood disaster in Pakistan, the Secretary-General has asked his Special Envoy for Assistance to Pakistan, Jean-Maurice Ripert, to travel to the country as soon as possible.”
U.N. officials say that this awkward wording has evolved from the fact that sometimes the secretary-general never sees the statements composed by his army of advisers and issued under his name by his press officers.
Or perhaps that wording also offers the U.N. secretariat a way to distance itself from language that backfires, as in the case of the Kashmir “guidance”?
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Ben ki if you can not say about us beter then keep mouth shut because over the un every one knows it is for the
strong and rich countries .
Kashmir would be one day Independent but you would be not
alive that time .We will beat India and Pakistan and become a Independent country with out un and you
UN is simply a puppet which has been made to suppress weak nations like kashmir…itz really heart breaking that under indian pressure the remarks were taken back…it clearly shows that UN is worthless like “League of Nations”…
indian policy on kashmir always has been based on conspiracy…but kashmiris are there to fight against all odds…
Our birth right is”FREEDOM” and we’ll get it…Insha Allah.
The Silence of UN at the Atrocities against Kashmiris by so called India, shows that UN is only a Pet Dog of USA and WEST and it never bothers about the Human Rights of the other People…..
I love this “UN is the puppet” talk. So when things go your way, the UN must be listened to (UNSC resolutions on Kashmir). But when they don’t, they are puppets of the West?
Hypocrits.
I’m thinking some overzealous staffer put out a press release that did not reflect Ban Ki Moon’s actual views and then the embarrassed Secretary-General was forced to clarify his position.
Excellent point Keithz! I said it before and will say it again, almost all states in India has different language, dress, food, culture, festivals and what nots and yet people aspire to be part of this rich land of diversity. They can also do the same and make a fuss like Kashmiris but they don’t. The only reason I can think of is that it is not Kashmiriyat but Musalmaniyat that itches them have so called “freedom” because these people surely got attitude problems.
Comments which criticize kashmiris for their freedom struggle are either ignorant or insane. If struggling for freedom is terrorism, then indian leaders like Gandhi, Nehu, Azad etc etc are all terrorists.
It is only a matter of time before we, Kashmiris, get rid of indian rule and we are sure about it.
http://www.dnaindia.com/opinion/column_k ashmiris-chase-a-mirage_1274327
Excerpt-
Unfortunately, that’s what Kashmiris have done to themselves. They have allowed themselves to be seduced by the Pakistani project of creating an exclusive Islamic identity.
They naively believe that once azadi comes, they can revert to a composite Kashmiriyat. This is precisely what Jinnah believed could be done with an independent Pakistan, but the mullahs had other ideas.
No pandit or Ladakhi or any of the other ethnic populations of Jammu & Kashmir will ever want to stay in this place. No secular humanist can support an azadi project that is rooted in exclusivism when the world is talking inclusivism.
You are sure. 1 billion people are also sure.
If india is at point A (status quo), you want us to move to point B ( change in status quo).
If Indians feel point B is absolutely detrimental to the country, we’ll do everything we can to stay at point A.
Complete normalization of Kashmir will not be achieved until India abrogates the ‘special sttlement rights’ given to Kashmiris. If Pakistan can settle it’s Punjabis & others in PoK, why can’t India do the same?
Let Kashmiris live amongst Indians from different regions & only then will they start valuing the diversity of India & it’s advantages. Open up Kashmir to investments from Indian & foreign companies, assimilate Kashmiris with the rest of India & let them enjoy the presperity which the rest of the country (by & large) is enjoying.
@misguided separatists
You guys are free to talk of Gandhi, Nehru and Azad and fancy yourselves in their shoes. In reality, the reason that these great men succeeded were, A) presence of the humongous popular support, and B) lack of strength (not in terms of military but British populace) of their opposition and their conviction in their morality in doing so.
Your case is different!
With one billion people covering point B of what I illustrated above, your chances are absolutely slim. If occupation is what it is then it is not by government of India, it is by one billion people behind that government. You can’t win them neither forcibly nor democratically. Pakistanis knew that better and hence the evil schemes of bleeding India through thousand cuts but they are caught in their own web these days.
Any sympathy that brick-pelting mobs can get from international community, get washed away by deteriorating security outlook of south Asia and world can’t afford another nation that can most certainly become a nurturing ground of Al Qaida/Taliban terrorists. Every key player is already sitting on ice-packs for their follies during the cold war.
Thanks to the posters in this thread (with the odd exception) articles regarding India, Pakistan seem to get the most literate posters. Be proud compared to most of the US domestic post your arguments are well laid out and concise.
Kashmir isthe responsibility of India, similar to Palestine which is the responsibility of Israel. The internationalcommunity has allowed these countries a very long rope so that they can eventually hang themselves. Bank ie noon is a pitiable induvidual, hoping for best days for his divided country when the USA is going to let them free.
Rex Minor
@Kashmir is the responsibility of India, similar to Palestine which is the responsibility of Israel”
–Pakistan
Pakistan:
UN thinks both India and Pakistan need to take action for Kashmir. As usual you will not consider that relevant.
Tell me this:
1. Why it is not Pakistan’s responsibility. I know you will never answer this and hide somewhere.
2. @Kashmir is the responsibility of India—Even going by that, India treats it as a part of India–like any other state. Aricle 370–Kashmiris can buy any propety in other states of India but reverse is not true.
Compare with Azad kashmir. Drop your biases.
3. @Israel-Palestine / India-Kashmir analogy.
You can be so ignorant to draw this analogy. No idea which “layer of the brain” you use. I suggest use appropriate segment of the brain.
Palestinians did not invite Israelis, Kashmiris did. Palestine was never happy with Isreal, Kashmiris were happy with India till 1989 and what happened later is known to all except you.
India faulted by rigging election in 1987 and Pakistan made a corridor for terrorists to exploit the situation and all the killings are the result of that. Work backwards and see why this happened but that is asking for milk from a male cow.
Indian security personnel use slingshots as first mechanism of self-defense, unlike trigger happy Isrealis security or Pakistanis on Baloch or sofetning the targets by aerail bombing by pakistan. Did you ask yourself why you do not hear news about Baloch throwing stones at Pakistan? lol…do not tell me they love Pakistan security. It is because they know the bullet for pellet attitude of Pakistan.
Historically, Kashmir is as much part of India as any other state.
Pakistan, go read the history.
If it makes you feel good to claim the Islamist genocidal ethnic cleansing of Kashmir with Gandhi’s struggle against British, feel free to do so. It is a stupid comparison.
Gandhi convinced Britain it is in Britain’s interest to grant independence to India. Islamist aggression by Pakistan and the puppets on pak payroll in Kashmir have done the opposite. You have convinced India more than ever, it is in India’s interest to stay put.
Kashmir can be given independence on the following conditions. Since Pakistanis are willing to sacrifice themselves for their Kashmiri “brothers”, we should insist on those sacrifices. Afterall, a Pakistan that is belligerant towards India is not a good news with Kashmir gone at the same time. Therefore, to get the Kashmir deal, let Pakistan agree to the following terms by means of a UN sponsored treaty:
1. Get rid off all nukes from the country
2. Destroy all nuclear bomb making installations and missiles under international supervision
3. Hang all the militant leaders in public.
4. Close down all Madrasas and put the Mullahs behind bars.
5. Shut down the ISI and hand over their Islamist officers to the Americans
6. Give independence to Balochistam, Khyber-Pakhtoonkwa, and Sindh.
If Pakistanis agree to the above, India will surely consider giving independence to Kashmir. After all, we need something in return from a geo-strategic stand point. Pakistan cannot have everything its way. As a country they have already demonstrated their utter failure. Right now there only the Pak military that is holding the whole region hostage, including the COAS. It is not allowing anything to settle down. With such a system in the vicinity, letting go of Kashmir will be counter productive to India’s interests.
Will the Kashmiris campaign for this? They also won’t be safe with a Pakistan sitting next to them.
If a solution is needed, let us pursue it and let all parties go home happy.
Let us say Kashmir becomes independent.
Imagine, who all will be written down in golden letters as freedom fighters.
Also, let us assume the best possible scenario that Pakistan does not swallow Kashmir. Pakistan will be under severe pressure from LeT and JeM and all other hyphenated cousins to mention these killers as Kashmir freedom fighters.
So we will have another country next door where people are taught “distorted history”. Hafeez Saeed CEO LeT Inc. and Masood Azhar CEO JeM Inc will be the freedom fighters.
@Myra,
The discussion on Pakistan occupied Kashmir continues to this day to evade scrutiny.
We should have a fair discussion on Kashmir and bring all three parties, Pakistan, Indians and Kashmiri all involved.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, the media is doing a good job focussing on the India Kashmir issues, but gets failing grades even mentioning the Pakistan side of Kashmir.
Myra, I as a reader and now as a blogger ask you take that that charge and shine light on the issue.
The world demands it.
All issues like 1948 UN resolutions and accords should be thoroughly discussed and all players pointed out where they are not complying.
Kashmir will never be solved unless a fair discussion is given all issues surrounding Pakistan occupied Kashmir.
Kashmiris are culturally different from Indians and want to separate for the following reasons from India:
suttee
devdasism
purushamedha
Kautilyan totalitarianism and apartheid
(varnashrama dharma)
Castism – Religion sanctioned racism
Rip Van Winkle: “Kashmiris are culturally different from Indians and want to separate for the following reasons from India:
suttee
devdasism
purushamedha
Kautilyan totalitarianism and apartheid
(varnashrama dharma)
Castism – Religion sanctioned racism”
yeah right! Kashmiris have the most modern outlook – I don’t want to hurt your religious belief. But it looks like you have been living the cave for too long. You need to get out and take a bath. Is there anything else they teach in the LeT camps other than the above gems that you have quoted. Go to the White Supremacist web sites and you will find similar propaganda nonsense against others. So you want to separate from a country because of the above issues. This means Pundits and Buddhists in Kashmir will need to be exterminated or forcibly converted. Forming nations based on religious purity, racial purity are for things of the past. Welcome to the 21st century.
# Manmohan Singh must take bold steps to demonstrate his willingness to address the grievances of ordinary Kashmiris.
# Singh should not insult their sentiments by talking of economic packages, roundtable conferences and all-party talks
# India’s delusional narrative of manipulated protest has to be dumped
# The ‘masla-e-Kashmir’ remained on the table and the people wanted it resolved. Unfortunately, the Centre failed to recognise this.
# No doubt, some areas like downtown Srinagar, Sopore and Baramulla were in the ‘vanguard’ but one of the reasons the protests spread was popular frustration over the way in which the authenticity of mass sentiment was being dismissed by the government.
# Today, the burden of India’s past sins in Kashmir has come crashing down like hailstones.
# The Prime Minister can forget about the Commonwealth Games, AfPak and other issues. Kashmir is where his leadership is urgently required.
You need to get out and take a bath
– Nudity outside is not looked upon favorably in my culture. Also my bath-tub is not outside.
other things that are different
Child marriages in Rajasthan, Khap honour killings on the basis of caste, Untouchability(Harijans)not even allowed to drink water from an upper caste well, Girls have to bring dowry in order to please their in-laws
we are DIFFERENT NATIONS.
Palestinians did not invite Israelis, Kashmiris did. Palestine was never happy with Isreal, Kashmiris were happy with India till 1989 and what happened later is known to all except you.
– The collapse of the berlin wall inspired kashmiris. Kashmniris NEVER joined india. Leave kashmir. Please we beg you. We don’t care how rich you are, how powerful you are, how wonderful you are, how good looking you are, how nice you are, how wealthy you are, how you reached moon with satellite, how you reached pluto with spaceship, just leave kashmir.
“Please we beg you”
So after trying stealing and borrowing, Pakistanis have stooped to begging? (almost devilish smile here)
“Nudity outside is not looked upon favorably in my culture”
Threeface talking of shame! Thats certainly a first. And we thought you were permanently shame-proof.
PS: Some people are destined to die form hate cancer.
“Please we beg you. We don’t care how rich you are, how powerful you are…..
Posted by mirusmtupsha
This weasel paki “mir-usm-tup-sha” (translation: mirza usman/tupak shakir) is again acting like a kashmiri & talking on their behalf. just die already roach!
“Nudity outside is not looked upon favorably in my culture”
All one needs to do is, turn on CNN, BBC, FOX etc to see your culture. Go strap a bomb on & blow yourself in a mosque cuz THAT’S YOUR CULTURE!
There are undoubtedly many social evils in traditional Hindu society. The Indian constitution outlaws them, Indian law recognises them as crimes and progressive Indians condemn them and do not subscribe to such philosophies.
But remember that traditional Muslim societies have also been criticised for analogous social evils – stoning people to death, treating rape victims as criminals, flogging, beheading, amputation, forced marriages, female circumcision, treating apostasy (leaving the religion) as a crime, death for blasphemy, etc.
Progressive Muslims do not agree with such barbaric practices either. So if progressive people everywhere can agree that barbaric practices are bad and work towards a more civilised society, these are then not differences but areas of concern that unite us.
Why don’t we try and look for things that unite rather than things that divide? If we set out to look for differences to condemn, we will definitely find them. It also means we’re not serious about peace. The evils we point out are just sticks to beat the other with. Well, the other will not go away. We will just stew in our own hatred till we die.
Regards,
Ganesh
@ mirusmtupsha
Your posts reveal you are not Kashmiri,but a vermin from we know where.
Ganesh, you are a good man. i have no quarrel with you. i have a quarrel with the other full-time haters on this blog with nothing better to do in their empty, unfulfilled lives than to comment on pakistan. i don’t wish to hurt the sentiment of a decent person such as yourself but indian haters on this blog.
please note: there is nothing analogous to castism in islam. 14 centuries before america’s celebrated civil rights movement, islam declared all races to be equal.
also, the practice of sati was first outlawed not by your government or the british but islam.
Will the Kashmiris campaign for this? They also won’t be safe with a Pakistan sitting next to them.
– Hypocrisy. who has taken territory of their neighbors, Pakistan or India?
Did Pakistan steal from Nepal, Bangladesh, Portugal, Sikkim? Did Pakistan try to steal from China? Who invaded siachen? Does Pakistan have all 3 principalities? Was it Pakistan that deprived india of a non-muslim majority province?
There is one country in south asia that disrespects the territory of their neighbors and it is India.
your self-righteousness without merit is nauseating.
how do you know we won’t forge a union with our kashmiri brethren ? how do you know we won’t advocate a south asian union like the europeans once kashmir has been settled?
you indians need to rid yourself of this myth of morality. you need to understand you have wronged your neighbors and you will pay for it.
If Kashmir becomes autonomous by some miracle, I won’t be surprised to see Pakistani presenting their “brethren” a bill of war accounting for the payments for each brick and stone.
Pakistanis like to stick their noses where they don’t belong and then cry that they are fighting someone else’s war and have suffered so many losses because of it. You emotional fools will rally for Palestine, Kashmir, and Chechans but never actually care for the plight of people in your country.
Lets see if a single one of you urge the blog writers here to write about latest food security report on Pakistan. You won’t! You will rather stuff grass in the mouths of your needy, give him a nuclear cigarette to drag and then spend all your energy in finding out what is ailing India (or what has ailed India in past 2000 years).
BTW, we thank you from our hearts for pointing out all our faults for free. With volunteers like you, Indian society and culture is will surely be able to heal any of its remaining ailments even quicker.
Pakistanis like to stick their noses where they don’t belong a
— you are right! It was Pakistan that stuck its nose in sri lanka (only to be kicked out), east pakistan (only to be kicked out), nepal, the maldives, sikkim. The whole neighborhood hates your guts and cheers on pakistan for being able to stand up to the 800 pound gorilla of south asia. As for palestine, it is none of your GOD DAMN business if pakistan supports palestine against israel or afghans against USSR. you can support whomever you want, we don’t even know and don’t care.
your energy in finding out what is ailing India
— this is pathetic. you obsess over pakistan a thousand times, how many pakistanis are there on blogs about india? There are more indians commenting on DAWN BLOG than pakistanis sometimes!
Lets see if a single one of you urge the blog writers here to write about latest food security report on Pakistan
— I am at this very moment involved in donations for victims of monsoon flooding. Pakistanis give heartily to fellow countrymen since our politicians are worthless. If you could only witness how the nation had galvanized after the earthquake. we don’t need a lecture from bean-counting banya from india where two times the population of pakistan lives in the most horrific conditions known to mankind.
The next uprising in kashmir will result in total and complete freedom. Free Kashmir!
Kashmir bane ga Pakistan.
Usman
“Pakistanis give heartily to fellow countrymen since our politicians are worthless. If you could only witness how the nation had galvanized after the earthquake.”
-I have winessed every single event closely since last three years in Pakistan, from Lal Masjid siege, to South Waziristan operation, to spate of suicide attacks, political turmoil, uncertainty etc. Every time Pakistan emerges stronger,it shows we are a resilient nation. Bring out the best in us when pushed beyond the limits of normal endurance. While this is not self praise, one must always have confidence in oneself, towards the nation and the country. Usman, thank you for contribution, our office is also collecting donations and a staff member belonging to the affected areas will deliver the supplies. As if the 2005 earthquake was not enough, these monsoon floods are worst in 80 years. But we will overcome anything. PAKISTAN ZINDABAD!
@Kashmir bane ga Pakistan.
Posted by Umairpk
–SHAMELESS!
And Pakistan(is) ask for self-determination for kashmiris even as their status in Azad Kashmir is already pre-determined.
HYPOCRITES!
@ Hypocrisy. who has taken territory of their neighbors, Pakistan or India?
Posted by mirusmtupsha
—Here is this for you. Read and remember it very well.
*************************************
An ingenious example of speech and politics occurred recently in the United Nations Assembly that made the world community smile.
A representative from India began: ‘Before beginning my talk I want to tell you something about Rishi Kashyap of Kashmir, after whom Kashmir is named. When he struck a rock and it brought forth water, he thought, ‘What a good opportunity to have a bath.’
He removed his clothes, put them aside on the rock and entered the water. When he got out and wanted to dress, his clothes had vanished. A Pakistani had stolen them.’
The Pakistani representative jumped up furiously and shouted, ‘What are you talking about? The Pakistanis weren’t there then.’
The Indian representative smiled and said, ‘And now that we have made that clear, I will begin my speech.’
**************************************** *************
As I have said earlier during our decent discussion with one Pakistani poster Saif and several Indian posters that Kashmiris should look forward for autonomy than impossible freedom.
Kuldip Nayar says the same in Dawn.
Kashmir: no ideal solution
By Kuldip Nayar
Friday, 06 Aug, 2010
http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn -content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/colu mnists/21-kuldip-nayar-kashmir-no-ideal- solution-680-sk-04
Excerpts:
Quote “What is happening in the valley lends credibility to the Kashmiri diaspora that met in Washington a few days ago to ask for an early, peaceful solution to the Kashmir problem.
“I was one of the participants at the conference which was convened by the Kashmiri-American Council and Association of Humanitarian lawyers. Emotions apart, the diaspora was concerned over the future of the land of their origin.
“Three things happened. One, the anti-India Kashmir leadership constituted a joint body, the All Hurriyat Conference. Two, a secular movement acquired an Islamic edge, particularly because of hardliner Syed Ali Shah Geelani. Three, the pro-Pakistan tilt changed into a resolve for independence, the slogan which Yasin Malik, the first militant in Kashmir, raised. Today that sentiment prevails in the shape of a demand that Kashmiris decide their own destiny.
“The demand for independence may be genuine but it is not possible. I wonder even if Pakistan would agree to an independent, sovereign state when the chips are down. I opposed the demand at the conference in Washington on two counts: one, India will not agree to another partition on the basis of religion, and two, borders could be made irrelevant but not changed. I also cautioned that Jammu and Ladakh would not go along with the valley to the point of secession.
“Yet it would be useful to find out what was the solution that Vajpayee and Nawaz Sharif had reached to make the former say: “We were almost there.” Former Foreign Minister Khurshid Kasuri announced at Delhi that they had reached a settlement. What was the solution? And the most important part is whether Kashmiris would accept it? Both India and Pakistan must persuade them to accept autonomy because independence does not seem to find favour in either New Delhi or Islamabad. It can tell upon India’s integrity.
“The Kashmiris should realise that independence is not an ideal solution.”
@mirusmtupsha:
> please note: there is nothing analogous to castism in islam. 14 centuries before america’s celebrated civil rights movement, islam declared all races to be equal.
That’s of course one of the best aspects of Islam, but again, that is neither here nor there. One could argue that Hinduism is probably the only religion in the world that declares that all religions are true. That is also neither here nor there.
My point is we need to stop looking back at the past and all the perceived injustices our own kind have suffered and instead look forward to the future and all its possibilities. We also need to be flexible in our approach. If we continue to insist, for example, “Kashmir first, then peace,” it may quite simply lead to another 63 years of stalemate, which nobody wants. Why not try a different approach, e.g., “Peace first, then Kashmir”?
This is not just addressed to you but to anyone participating in such forums, because I assume everyone here is in some way trying to engage. What is the harm in being a little less rigid and trying different approaches? We may just find some surprising common ground, which will make further progress possible. The incessant to-and-fro accusations lead to no progress at all.
Regards,
Ganesh Prasad
—Here is this for you. Read and remember it very well.
*************************************
An ingenious example of speech and politics occurred recently in the United Nations Assembly that made the world community smile.
— This was a brilliant, paradigm shifting anecdote for me Rajeev. I will never forget it… for its shear stupidity.
Threeface talking of shame! Thats certainly a first. And we thought you were permanently shame-proof.
— I am not threeface idiot. i have to create new userid because a bunch of cowards would rather click on ‘report as abusive’ than be confronted by the unflattering truth.
Gandhi convinced Britain it is in Britain’s interest to grant independence to India
– Don’t flatter yourself. Adolf Hitler convinced Britain with the luftwaffe that she can no longer militarily or financially hold on to its colonial possessions. I would like to see how far the non-violence strategy would work without WWII.
Historically, Kashmir is as much part of India as any other state.
– would that be british raj india that consisted of burma, nepal, somalia! etc.? or would it be mughal india that invaded kashmir? or would that be non-existent “india” prior to the mughals?
Ha ha. Even an Islamized UN will not comment against India.
Previously never existed “Pakistan” annexed Kalat and NWFP through British connivance and fraud. We should start with that.
Pakistanis shouldn’t blame the UN for backtracking. The UN peace keeping forces are already stretched to breaking point by having to maintain missions in most of the wonderful Islamic lands on the planet. They surely do not want to create another international migraine.
It gives me a lot of grief to see that Pakistanis are reduced to whining and posing as Kashmiris on Internet forums. Whatever happened to the 1:10 Hindu:Muslim awesomeness ratios?
The demand for independence may be genuine but it is not possible.
– That is what Slavemasters said to slaves, the british empire to india, pakistan, nepal, america, the french to algerians, the pakistani to bangladesh, the afrikaaners to mandela. Since when did nations restrict themselves to the possibilities of the occupier?
The comparisons of kashmir to baluchistan are fanciful talking points. there is no comparison to the two situations except in the wonderfully imaginative minds of indians.
“Previously never existed “Pakistan” annexed Kalat and NWFP through British connivance and fraud. We should start with that.”
– The other one, I forget which, (there are so many of you) was referring to historical kashmir. at least we pakistanis admit that pakistan is a modern construct… you claim a 5000 year history as a singular nation-state spanning from afghanistan to vietnam to mars.
Whatever happened to the 1:10 Hindu:Muslim awesomeness ratios?
— Pak/India ratio is 1:10, yet we stand up to you win, lose or draw. Compare this to your record with a slight disadvantage against china. you got your collective a$$ torn up.
get some class and learn to acknowledge a weaker adversary like those women and children pelting rocks at your 1 million soldiers.